Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[william degnan]

On Oct 10, 2016 7:43 PM, "Jason Howe"  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2016, Ethan Dicks wrote:
>
>>
>> I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms


I recently got a Pocket c.h.i.p and installed MAMe, VICE, etc onto it so
I'd have just about any game I ever wanted on a small handheld device
running Debian arm linux.  Small screen but it works.

Yesterday on the NextStation computer I was checking out "Asterloids" nice
graphics but I prefer the original 1979 version.

I spend some time on Donkey Kong, DigDug, the real/orig arcade games are my
preference. ..things that cost a quarter to play.  Made gaming more intense
when you didn't have much money as a kid.

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/10/16 6:19 PM, Chris Hanson wrote:


On Oct 10, 2016, at 6:11 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:

On 10/10/16 5:40 PM, Charles Anthony wrote:

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Rich Alderson <
ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org> wrote:


From: Charles Anthony
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:53 PM


Correction:  .tap format uses 4 byte counters, in little-endian order.
Order is not relevant for the EOF tape marks, of course, since they're
4 bytes of 0.



Stupid memory of mine. Sigh.  Anyway, IIUC, the SCSI2SD is like $70; the
firmware appears to be closed, but I wonder if an NDA with them would allow
adding tape emulation capability to their code base? (Given that I have no
knowledge of how SCSI2D works inside, I may be vastly underestimating the
scope of the project.)

-- Charles


The SCSI2SD firmware (and hardware) are open source, see the "Files" section of 
the scsi2sd site for the git repo information.

Additionally, the guy behind the project is very receptive to feature requests 
and bug reports...

I was going to point this out as well.

My only misgiving would be whether SCSI2SD prior to v6 is powerful or fast 
enough for any particular use, not whether sufficient resources are available 
to hack it.


For *any* particular use?  No -- I wouldn't put it it to use in a 
datacenter :).  I have, however, used it on a wide variety of machines.  
Right now I have them in a Sun 3/60, a VAX-11/750, a VaxStation 3540, an 
AT&T 3B2/600 and a Symbolics XL1200 where they work flawlessly.  There 
are certainly vintage machines where the SCSI2SD V4 would be noticeably 
slower than a real drive, but many vintage machines are simply not fast 
enough to come close to the peak throughput of the SCSI2SD.


- Josh



   -- Chris
   -- who still needs a JTAG cable to reprogram the boot loader on his bricked 
SCSI2SD

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Chris Hanson]

On Oct 10, 2016, at 6:11 PM, Josh Dersch  wrote:
> 
>> On 10/10/16 5:40 PM, Charles Anthony wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Rich Alderson <
>> ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> From: Charles Anthony
>>> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:53 PM
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Correction:  .tap format uses 4 byte counters, in little-endian order.
>>> Order is not relevant for the EOF tape marks, of course, since they're
>>> 4 bytes of 0.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Stupid memory of mine. Sigh.  Anyway, IIUC, the SCSI2SD is like $70; the
>> firmware appears to be closed, but I wonder if an NDA with them would allow
>> adding tape emulation capability to their code base? (Given that I have no
>> knowledge of how SCSI2D works inside, I may be vastly underestimating the
>> scope of the project.)
>> 
>> -- Charles
>> 
> 
> The SCSI2SD firmware (and hardware) are open source, see the "Files" section 
> of the scsi2sd site for the git repo information.
> 
> Additionally, the guy behind the project is very receptive to feature 
> requests and bug reports...

I was going to point this out as well.

My only misgiving would be whether SCSI2SD prior to v6 is powerful or fast 
enough for any particular use, not whether sufficient resources are available 
to hack it.

  -- Chris
  -- who still needs a JTAG cable to reprogram the boot loader on his bricked 
SCSI2SD

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Josh Dersch]

On 10/10/16 5:40 PM, Charles Anthony wrote:


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Rich Alderson <
ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org> wrote:


From: Charles Anthony
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:53 PM


Correction:  .tap format uses 4 byte counters, in little-endian order.
Order is not relevant for the EOF tape marks, of course, since they're
4 bytes of 0.



Stupid memory of mine. Sigh.  Anyway, IIUC, the SCSI2SD is like $70; the
firmware appears to be closed, but I wonder if an NDA with them would allow
adding tape emulation capability to their code base? (Given that I have no
knowledge of how SCSI2D works inside, I may be vastly underestimating the
scope of the project.)

-- Charles



The SCSI2SD firmware (and hardware) are open source, see the "Files" 
section of the scsi2sd site for the git repo information.


Additionally, the guy behind the project is very receptive to feature 
requests and bug reports...


- Josh

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Fred Cisin]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:

You haven't actually decoded it, you've just captured flux changes.


On Mon, 10 Oct 2016, Santo Nucifora wrote:

If I am not mistaken, I thought that's what Eric was requesting in his
original message.


Yes, I believe that what Eric is working on IS the decoding of 
flux-transition disk images.  In particular, those from disk recording 
systems other than WD/NEC FDC compatible MFM.



How do you know what is there is actually correct?


Until software is created to write it back to disk in its original format, 
and test it in the original machine, we can not be sure.
HOWEVER, if Eric succeeds in decoding the Victor 9000 (aka Sirius) 
recording format, then we can look at the content of the disk and get 
reasonable assumptions.




I don't because I am new to the Kryoflux but the log looks okay so I was
hoping Eric would know if this was useful.  I do know the disk that the
flux stream was taken from works because it's original and works in my
Victor 9000.


I would not have too much confidence in that log.
But, those files, if they turn out to be good, seem to be what Eric is 
asking for!



I'm also puzzled when you refer to "IMD"
Dave Dunfield's utility?

I am referring to what the "fluxtoimd" GitHub page README file states.  It
says "fluxtoimd.py is a Python 3 program to read floppy disk flux
transitions images, demodulate the data, and write the data to an ImageDisk
image file".

That won't work on a Victor 9000 disk

I was curious about that but I'm willing to give anything a try if it helps
the preservation process.


Therein lies the confusion.

IMD is a program, by David Dunfield, to extract the sector contents from 
disks that are compatible with WD/NEC FDC.  It appends the content from 
the second sector to the end of the first sector, etc. to create a file 
containing all of the user content, but stripping out all of the sector 
headers. (The inter-sector material and the track format is already 
stripped out by the NEC FDC).

It is the content of all of the sectors, in a documented file format.

What Eric is working on is software that can decode disk formats that are 
NOT necessarily WD/NEC FDC compatible!  And writing a file similar to 
the one created by IMD.


That will most certainly NOT then be convertible by IMD into a Victor 9000 
disk!


However, OTHER software, that understands the file systems could then 
extract files.  For example, if it is successful, then it might be 
possible to take the Victor9000 IMD file produced by fluxtoimd, run it 
through IMD to write that content onto a disk in a WD/NEC compatible 
format with similarities of parameters other than encoding (eg. 
Chromemco?), and then read files from that disk using XenoCopy 
or equivalent.





Sorry, but I am not likely to get around to adding IMD file support, nor 
flux transition support, to XenoCopy.


Eric is far more productive than I am.  Perhaps one day, he might write 
something with those capabilities.



--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:49 PM, Rich Alderson <
ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org> wrote:

> From: Charles Anthony
> Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:53 PM
>
>
> Correction:  .tap format uses 4 byte counters, in little-endian order.
> Order is not relevant for the EOF tape marks, of course, since they're
> 4 bytes of 0.
>
>
Stupid memory of mine. Sigh.  Anyway, IIUC, the SCSI2SD is like $70; the
firmware appears to be closed, but I wonder if an NDA with them would allow
adding tape emulation capability to their code base? (Given that I have no
knowledge of how SCSI2D works inside, I may be vastly underestimating the
scope of the project.)

-- Charles

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Santo Nucifora]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Al Kossow  wrote:

> You haven't actually decoded it, you've just captured flux changes.
>

If I am not mistaken, I thought that's what Eric was requesting in his
original message.


> How do you know what is there is actually correct?
>

I don't because I am new to the Kryoflux but the log looks okay so I was
hoping Eric would know if this was useful.  I do know the disk that the
flux stream was taken from works because it's original and works in my
Victor 9000.


> I'm also puzzled when you refer to "IMD"
> Dave Dunfield's utility?
>

I am referring to what the "fluxtoimd" GitHub page README file states.  It
says "fluxtoimd.py is a Python 3 program to read floppy disk flux
transitions images, demodulate the data, and write the data to an ImageDisk
image file".


> That won't work on a Victor 9000 disk
>

I was curious about that but I'm willing to give anything a try if it helps
the preservation process.

Santo

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Al Kossow]

http://www.reactivedata.com/Products/SCSI_Bridge_Emulators_to_CF/imgs/SCSI(LRG).JPG

This looks like another (german) product.
Will keep digging.


On 10/10/16 4:49 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
> brochure
> http://www.ssd.gb.com/SCSIFlash/SCSIFlash-Tape/SCSIFlash-Tape%E2%84%A2.pdf
> 
> 
> On 10/10/16 4:25 PM, Don North wrote:
>>
>> Something new: 
>> http://embedded-computing.com/news/launch-scsiflash-tape-replacement-obsolete-end-of-life-tape-drives/
>> but no price listed.
>> Not targeted at the classic computing hobbyist, so probably going to be 
>> expensive.
>>
> 

RE: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Rich Alderson]

From: Charles Anthony
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 12:53 PM

> Details: The .tap format is a series of tape records; each record is
> stored as a 2 byte byte count, the data (sometimes rounded to an even
> number of bytes), and a repeat of the 2 byte byte count. This format
> supports the basic tape record operations; you need to keep a pointer
> to the current record. A 'tape read' retrieves the byte count from the
> record pointed to by the pointer, retrieves the data, and advances the
> pointer to the next block. Tape marks are stored as 2 bytes of
> zeros. Skipping records forward is done by retrieving the byte count
> and calculating the new pointer value.  Skipping backward is done by
> backing the pointer up 2 bytes, and retrieving the 2nd copy of the
> byte count of the previous record, and calculating how far back to
> move the pointer. Rewind sets the pointer to 0.

Correction:  .tap format uses 4 byte counters, in little-endian order.
Order is not relevant for the EOF tape marks, of course, since they're
4 bytes of 0.

The older DECUS .tpc format uses a 2 byte counter, also little endian,
but only at the front of the record (no read backwards capability).

Rich


Rich Alderson
Vintage Computing Sr. Systems Engineer
Living Computer Museum
2245 1st Avenue S
Seattle, WA 98134

mailto:ri...@livingcomputermuseum.org

http://www.LivingComputerMuseum.org/

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Al Kossow]

brochure
http://www.ssd.gb.com/SCSIFlash/SCSIFlash-Tape/SCSIFlash-Tape%E2%84%A2.pdf


On 10/10/16 4:25 PM, Don North wrote:
> 
> Something new: 
> http://embedded-computing.com/news/launch-scsiflash-tape-replacement-obsolete-end-of-life-tape-drives/
> but no price listed.
> Not targeted at the classic computing hobbyist, so probably going to be 
> expensive.
>

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Jason Howe]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2016, Ethan Dicks wrote:



I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
to 1995.

...

If you've played anything in the past 3 years, I'd especially like to
hear about it since that speaks to enjoyment and replayability.  If
you like it, someone here will probably like it too.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

-ethan

Some favorites that have stuck with me for a very long time, which I have 
played within the last year.

A8:
Star Raiders
Star Raiders II (The Last Starfighter)
Star Raiders II (The actual sequel, just uncovered ealier this year)
Super Breakout
Frogger
Asteroids
Star Wars (the Wireframe 3D one)

DOS (low spec 2/386)
SimCity
OregonTrail
Where in the  is Carmen Sandiego
Wolfenstien 3D

DOS (high spec 486/Penium)
Carmegedeon
X-Wing
Tie Fighter
Dark Forces
Doom
Might and Magic

(Okay, yes, I was a total LucasArts Junky for a while.  Dark Forces and 
the X-Wing/Tie Fighter twins are pretty much my favorite games of all 
times.  These run quite well in DosBox if you can't lay your hands on 
period hardware.)


--Jason

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Don North]

Something new: 
http://embedded-computing.com/news/launch-scsiflash-tape-replacement-obsolete-end-of-life-tape-drives/ 
but no price listed.

Not targeted at the classic computing hobbyist, so probably going to be 
expensive.

On 10/10/2016 3:34 PM, Al Kossow wrote:

"9-track tape emulator" brings up the usual suspects on G

they are ~10k dollar devices.

http://www.arraid.com/

et. al.


On 10/10/16 3:27 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 10/10/2016 02:02 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:


Do you have any links, I couldn't turn any up? Are they affordable?


Only an echo of a name rattling around in my brainpan--AVAX.

Maybe a google search will turn up something.

--Chuck

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Al Kossow]

You haven't actually decoded it, you've just captured flux changes.
How do you know what is there is actually correct?

I'm also puzzled when you refer to "IMD"
Dave Dunfield's utility?

That won't work on a Victor 9000 disk

On 10/10/16 4:12 PM, Santo Nucifora wrote:
> http://vintagecomputer.ca/download/victor_9000/CP-M-86.
> Victor9000-Kryoflux.Stream.zip

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Tapley, Mark]

“Starfleet Orion” and “invasion Orion”. Hot-seat 2-player and solitaire, 
respectively, written for the TRS-80 in basic so should adapt to other “dumb” 
terminal displays reasonably easily. 

2-d movement, enter orders then stand back to see how the turn plays out. You 
get to design your own starships, given a cost system, or they had several 
scenarios you could play. 

Wow, there’s a wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfleet_Orion

Don’t know what it would take to make it playable at two different terminals, 
but should not be impossible….


- Mark



On Oct 10, 2016, at 3:56 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Peter Corlett  wrote:
>> Find better games :)
>> 
>> The theme of this list means that I should recommend some retro games and
>> gaming systems...
> 
> I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
> to 1995.  Specifically, things that require Windows and a Pentium and
> newer are out of bounds.  I'm attempting to breathe some excitement
> into a retro-gaming meetup I hold a few times a year at our
> hackerspace.  I'm already bringing the hardware - to date, Commodore
> PET, Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari 2600, PDP-8 (emulated for now), and
> curses-based UNIX games, and would like to add more platforms.  I'm
> especially interested in any favorites that run on dumb terminals (I
> have numerous ones to bring in, and have a VT220 already in the
> collection).
> 
> Yes, I know a bunch of games that run on those platforms.  I'm looking
> for other people's favorites because that is what will stimulate
> interest in the meetups.  I already bring my own favorites, but
> learning what other people remember fondly - tapping into their
> nostalgia - will be a big help.
> 
> In bounds are any machines from the 70s and 80s that a) are common
> enough to lay hands on or b) have a reasonable emulator on modern
> platforms.  I will probably add DOS games to the list, but that's not
> the focus at first - 8-bit microcomputers and minicomputers are at the
> top of the list.  Emulation via simh is acceptable but I'll try to dig
> up the original hardware where possible.
> 
> If you've played anything in the past 3 years, I'd especially like to
> hear about it since that speaks to enjoyment and replayability.  If
> you like it, someone here will probably like it too.
> 
> Thanks for any and all suggestions!
> 
> -ethan

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Santo Nucifora]

Hi Eric,

I am a newbie to Kryoflux (it just arrived this past Friday) but I did
manage to set it up and try a couple of regular disks.  The following link
is to my Victor 9000 CP/M-86 boot disk, if I did it correctly.  I also
included the log file.

http://vintagecomputer.ca/download/victor_9000/CP-M-86.
Victor9000-Kryoflux.Stream.zip

I wasn't familiar with your tool but a quick search turned it up on
GitHub.  I also have an FDADAP floppy disk adapter for 8" disks but haven't
tried that yet.  I also haven't figured out how to determine disk
characteristics to make floppies yet but I'll learn.  I also have several
disk formats in 3.5", 5.25" and 8" with equipment to match in most cases.
So, in this case, I could try out the resulting IMD file by recreating it
and running it on my Victor 9000, if that is helpful.

I bought the Kryoflux to save my disks so I'm happy to help with whatever
you need.
Santo


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

> On Oct 10, 2016 3:41 PM, "Al Kossow"  wrote:
> > Do you have a prefered CW transition image format?
>
> No preference, as I haven't dealt with them at all yet.
>

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Eric Smith]

On Oct 10, 2016 3:41 PM, "Al Kossow"  wrote:
> Do you have a prefered CW transition image format?

No preference, as I haven't dealt with them at all yet.

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Al Kossow]

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102743371

I was just wondering where that went.

On 10/10/16 3:46 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 6:34 PM, dwight  wrote:
>> Surely someone can come up with a VideoBrain.
> 
> I have heard of the VideoBrain, but I have never seen one in person.
> 
> Excellent suggestion should one turn up, though I doubt it would
> trigger much nostalgia in most attendees - fascination, surely, but
> not nostalgia.
> 
> -ethan
> 

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Eric Smith]

On Oct 10, 2016 3:33 PM, "Josh Dersch"  wrote:
> I have a pile of RX50 images at http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/VAX8200/
> in SCP format if that helps...

Thanks! I'm not familiar with SCP, but if the file format is documented,
I'll add support for it to fluxtoimd.

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Ethan Dicks]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 6:34 PM, dwight  wrote:
> Surely someone can come up with a VideoBrain.

I have heard of the VideoBrain, but I have never seen one in person.

Excellent suggestion should one turn up, though I doubt it would
trigger much nostalgia in most attendees - fascination, surely, but
not nostalgia.

-ethan

ISO Figure from ENIAC Technical Manual

[Brian L. Stuart]

I know this is a very long shot, but I'm looking for Figure 6-13
from the Part I Technical Manual on the ENIAC by Adele Goldstine.
In the table of tables at the front of the manual, this table is one
of three listed as "in an envelope attached to the back cover."
Neither the scan on archive.org, nor the printed manual from
Periscope Film, appear to include these tables.  Does anyone
by any chance know where a scan of any of those three tables
(6-13, 7-4, and 8-13) might exist?

Thanks in advance,
BLS

Re: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[dwight]

Surely someone can come up with a VideoBrain.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Ethan Dicks 

Sent: Monday, October 10, 2016 1:56:40 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Peter Corlett  wrote:
> Find better games :)
>
> The theme of this list means that I should recommend some retro games and
> gaming systems...

I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
to 1995.  Specifically, things that require Windows and a Pentium and
newer are out of bounds.  I'm attempting to breathe some excitement
into a retro-gaming meetup I hold a few times a year at our
hackerspace.  I'm already bringing the hardware - to date, Commodore
PET, Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari 2600, PDP-8 (emulated for now), and
curses-based UNIX games, and would like to add more platforms.  I'm
especially interested in any favorites that run on dumb terminals (I
have numerous ones to bring in, and have a VT220 already in the
collection).

Yes, I know a bunch of games that run on those platforms.  I'm looking
for other people's favorites because that is what will stimulate
interest in the meetups.  I already bring my own favorites, but
learning what other people remember fondly - tapping into their
nostalgia - will be a big help.

In bounds are any machines from the 70s and 80s that a) are common
enough to lay hands on or b) have a reasonable emulator on modern
platforms.  I will probably add DOS games to the list, but that's not
the focus at first - 8-bit microcomputers and minicomputers are at the
top of the list.  Emulation via simh is acceptable but I'll try to dig
up the original hardware where possible.

If you've played anything in the past 3 years, I'd especially like to
hear about it since that speaks to enjoyment and replayability.  If
you like it, someone here will probably like it too.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

-ethan

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Al Kossow]

"9-track tape emulator" brings up the usual suspects on G

they are ~10k dollar devices.

http://www.arraid.com/

et. al.


On 10/10/16 3:27 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
> On 10/10/2016 02:02 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:
> 
>> Do you have any links, I couldn't turn any up? Are they affordable?
> 
> 
> Only an echo of a name rattling around in my brainpan--AVAX.
> 
> Maybe a google search will turn up something.
> 
> --Chuck
> 

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/10/2016 02:02 PM, Dave G4UGM wrote:

> Do you have any links, I couldn't turn any up? Are they affordable?


Only an echo of a name rattling around in my brainpan--AVAX.

Maybe a google search will turn up something.

--Chuck

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Glen Slick]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Dave G4UGM  wrote:
>
>> Don't tape emulator boxes already exist, both for SCSI and Pertec
>> interfaces?   It seems to me that I've seen a few.
>>
>> --Chuck
>
> Do you have any links, I couldn't turn any up?
> Are they affordable?

Sure, they exist. Can you actually buy one, or afford to buy one?
Probably not. Looks like a few stale web pages out there for tape
drive emulators with no sales and pricing information => if you can
find someone that will tell you how much they cost the answer is you
can't afford one.

Of course I'd be happy to be proven wrong with hard data on actual
pricing and availability...

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Al Kossow]

I see a CW 4 and Discferret sitting on my bench, along with a Supercard Pro.

I've got a dead CW 3 and a working one ..somewhere that I wanted to do A/B
comparisons with.

Eric, I had been trying to find time to set up the diskferret, since that
was what you originally asked for, but I can more easily do CW right now,
though I should go through the exercise of getting it running under Linux,
which is a pain because they stole someone elses PCI ID for the card, so
you have to blacklist the other device.

Do you have a prefered CW transition image format?


On 10/10/16 2:20 PM, Kurt K wrote:
> Anyone know how you can locate a Discferret and Catweasel?  
> 

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Josh Dersch]

I have a pile of RX50 images at http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/VAX8200/
in SCP format if that helps...

- Josh


On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:

> Would anyone care to donate floppy disk flux-transition images for use
> in development of utility software and for regression-testing the
> same? It would be much appreciated.
>
> Images from "normal" floppy formats (IBM FM and MFM, e.g., TRS-80, IBM
> PC, or almost anything using 177x/179x/279x or 765/8272 family
> controllers) and obscure formats (DEC RX02, Victor 9000) would be
> welcome. I'd especially like to get IBM 23FD "Minnow" disk images, but
> I'm not holding my breath for that.
>
> If you send me any images, a brief description of what they might
> contain and/or what system they're from would be helpful. I don't need
> to be able to do anything with the content; I just want to verify that
> I can extract the content from flux images into sector images.
>
> If you send me any images that you don't want made public, let me know.
>
> Thanks!
> Eric
>

Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Kurt K]

Anyone know how you can locate a Discferret and Catweasel?  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:
> 
> Would anyone care to donate floppy disk flux-transition images for use
> in development of utility software and for regression-testing the
> same? It would be much appreciated.
> 
> Images from "normal" floppy formats (IBM FM and MFM, e.g., TRS-80, IBM
> PC, or almost anything using 177x/179x/279x or 765/8272 family
> controllers) and obscure formats (DEC RX02, Victor 9000) would be
> welcome. I'd especially like to get IBM 23FD "Minnow" disk images, but
> I'm not holding my breath for that.
> 
> If you send me any images, a brief description of what they might
> contain and/or what system they're from would be helpful. I don't need
> to be able to do anything with the content; I just want to verify that
> I can extract the content from flux images into sector images.
> 
> If you send me any images that you don't want made public, let me know.
> 
> Thanks!
> Eric

Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted

[Eric Smith]

Would anyone care to donate floppy disk flux-transition images for use
in development of utility software and for regression-testing the
same? It would be much appreciated.

Images from "normal" floppy formats (IBM FM and MFM, e.g., TRS-80, IBM
PC, or almost anything using 177x/179x/279x or 765/8272 family
controllers) and obscure formats (DEC RX02, Victor 9000) would be
welcome. I'd especially like to get IBM 23FD "Minnow" disk images, but
I'm not holding my breath for that.

If you send me any images, a brief description of what they might
contain and/or what system they're from would be helpful. I don't need
to be able to do anything with the content; I just want to verify that
I can extract the content from flux images into sector images.

If you send me any images that you don't want made public, let me know.

Thanks!
Eric

VCF Midwest 11 Videos!

[Jason T]

I am pleased to announce that the full lot of speaker videos from this
year's Vintage Computer Festival Midwest have been posted to our
YouTube channel.  There is a play list of this year's videos here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE-Iywr9LQESedwj_46tFIaPoyrUf-mHs

In addition to the fine lineup of speakers, there is a 7.5 minute
"highlight reel" showing many of the varied demos and displays, along
with some nice stop-motion footage of the crowd at various times of
the day.  The direct link for that is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adQIMM7cVg0

Although he is not on this list, I want to thank our full-time "A/V
nerd," Jim Leonard (AKA Trixter http://trixter.oldskool.org), who
handled all aspects of production, from manning the camera and mixer
during the talks and clipping the lav mic on the speakers to his
expert editing and production of all the footage.  The highlight reel
was his idea, too :)

We're really proud of our interesting, diverse set of presentations
this year, as well as having kicked the production quality of our
videos up quite a few notches.  We hope you find something of interest
among them.

-j

RE: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Dave G4UGM]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis
> Sent: 10 October 2016 20:57
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: SCSI Tape Emulator
> 
> Don't tape emulator boxes already exist, both for SCSI and Pertec
> interfaces?   It seems to me that I've seen a few.
> 
> --Chuck

Do you have any links, I couldn't turn any up?
Are they affordable?

Dave
G4UGM

Gaming on old systems (was Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!])

[Ethan Dicks]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 4:58 AM, Peter Corlett  wrote:
> Find better games :)
>
> The theme of this list means that I should recommend some retro games and
> gaming systems...

I am actively seeking lists of favorite games on all platforms prior
to 1995.  Specifically, things that require Windows and a Pentium and
newer are out of bounds.  I'm attempting to breathe some excitement
into a retro-gaming meetup I hold a few times a year at our
hackerspace.  I'm already bringing the hardware - to date, Commodore
PET, Commodore 64, Apple II, Atari 2600, PDP-8 (emulated for now), and
curses-based UNIX games, and would like to add more platforms.  I'm
especially interested in any favorites that run on dumb terminals (I
have numerous ones to bring in, and have a VT220 already in the
collection).

Yes, I know a bunch of games that run on those platforms.  I'm looking
for other people's favorites because that is what will stimulate
interest in the meetups.  I already bring my own favorites, but
learning what other people remember fondly - tapping into their
nostalgia - will be a big help.

In bounds are any machines from the 70s and 80s that a) are common
enough to lay hands on or b) have a reasonable emulator on modern
platforms.  I will probably add DOS games to the list, but that's not
the focus at first - 8-bit microcomputers and minicomputers are at the
top of the list.  Emulation via simh is acceptable but I'll try to dig
up the original hardware where possible.

If you've played anything in the past 3 years, I'd especially like to
hear about it since that speaks to enjoyment and replayability.  If
you like it, someone here will probably like it too.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!

-ethan

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[jim stephens]

On 10/10/2016 1:38 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:

Douglas Adams was instrumental in a few games.
But, somebody once asked him what he most liked to play with on his Mac. He
said The Desktop.

It's like "Hunt the Wumpus" but with no Wumpus...

-ethan

At times I've been near playing "Whack-a-mole" on my machines with a 
real mallet.  Beat them into submission.


I like easy games, too, and in this modified game, there is only one mole.

thanks
jim

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[jim stephens]

On 10/10/2016 1:29 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 10/10/2016 01:21 PM, jim stephens wrote:



If you are talking about the arcade operation here in this thread,
that was separate from the programming staff for the consoles.

This would have been about 1974, so probably arcade stuff.  As a matter
of fact, I recall the job adverts from Atari in the Mercury-News from
that time made the same pronouncement of not wanting mainframe people.

--Chuck

He joined Atari in 78.  He moved to a manager spot in 81.
Thanks
Jim

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Ethan Dicks]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 2:37 PM, Fred Cisin  wrote:
> Douglas Adams was instrumental in a few games.
> But, somebody once asked him what he most liked to play with on his Mac. He
> said The Desktop.

It's like "Hunt the Wumpus" but with no Wumpus...

-ethan

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Ethan Dicks]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Corey Cohen  wrote:
> Actually a lot of late 70's and early 80's computers were bought by a lot of 
> ham radio guys for their setups.
>
> The only people I knew in the late 70's or early 80's doing "Business" things 
> at home with personal computers were doing word processing and spreadsheets 
> from 9 to 5 and video games from 5:15 till midnight.

In the late 70s, I was a kid and the $1000 32K PET we got was used for
games and me learning about hardware and programming and developing my
nerd skills.  We did not own a CBM disk drive or printer for it (too
expensive after buying the CPU) so that limited its "business" use.
By 1982, I was writing code for the Commodore 64 as a contractor, so
things shifted to perhaps 50/50 games and "work".  Around that time, I
got my first PDP-8 which was back to games and expanding my skillset.
In 1985, I added a PDP-11/23 (made affordable by borrowing peripherals
from the PDP-8/a) and it was all games and such until that led to
paying work on RT-11 in 1986.  Games first, business to follow.

> Sure if you were rich enough to have a PDP or System 32 for your home 
> business you never ever played games, but no matter what their tax return 
> said they bought a personal computer for, they were used for games after 
> hours.

Absolutely.  By the mid-1980s, I was using a VAX all day at work, and
we had games on it too - EMPIRE.EXE was a favorite, then I grabbed
some stuff off of comp.sources.games and expanded my skillset by
learning how to port UNIX code to VMS and getting millebourne and
other BSD games to run.  It was awesome when I got the InfoTaskForce
z-machine pinfocom to compile and run on VMS.  $120,000 minicomputer
playing Zork!

> Games have always been part of detoxing after a long day of business on 
> personal computers.

Absolutely.  I used to love visiting family friends who had
microcomputers at home in the 1970s.  Evenings was all games.

So admittedly, people did not choose their business systems based on
what games there were, but pretty much everywhere I've worked, games
appeared on whatever systems we had.

-ethan

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Eric Smith]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:21 PM, jim stephens  wrote:
> One thing you got on the 2600, was almost nothing to do your programming on.
> There was the rom with lots of code space, but there was I think either 256
> or 512 bytes of ram total, and 1/2 of it was owned by the "system" such as
> it was.  Fun environment to code for.  The processor was 6502.

It was actually even worse!  The RAM was only 128 bytes total.
However, none of it was dedicated; the programmer could, and in fact
must, use it however they saw fit. There wasn't a "system"; the 2600
programmer was responsible for doing *everything*. It was only one
small step removed from bit-banging the video; the TIA chip did a
little bit of the work for you. Coding for the 2600 has been called
"racing the beam", in reference to having to output video data in time
for the electron beam of the CRT, and there's a good book about the
history of the 2600 using that title. The 2600 is an amazing study in
minimalist hardware.

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/10/2016 01:21 PM, jim stephens wrote:


> If you are talking about the arcade operation here in this thread,
> that was separate from the programming staff for the consoles.

This would have been about 1974, so probably arcade stuff.  As a matter
of fact, I recall the job adverts from Atari in the Mercury-News from
that time made the same pronouncement of not wanting mainframe people.

--Chuck

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[jim stephens]

On 10/10/2016 1:03 PM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

On 10/10/2016 11:32 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:


Apologies for saying this, but it almost sounds like to me that you
are validating their "no mainframe programmers wanted" stance. ;)


Not really--it seems to me that a great deal of early work with
microprocessors was successfully done by mainframe people.

No, I think that Nolan Bushnell was repulsed by the high level of
organization in the mainframe business and wanted more of a "bootleg"
software operation; i.e. not products that would last for years.

It was a bit ironic, because most of those feeding quarters into the
racecar game machine at Andy Capp's were, in fact, mainframe people.

--Chuck


A friend of mine was hired by them and moved up there.  He did the 
following games for the 2600, BERZERK, Mario Bothers, SwordQuest 
(Earthworld), Gravitar, and Elevator Action.


He went from Microdata to Atari.  His background was in assembly and 
basic.  While @ Microdata he wrote an 8080 emulator which would do a 
fair amount which ran in MPL on the 3200 systems we had, so that was 
something that surely helped him @ Atari.  His main work @ Microdata was 
diagnostic writing, as far as the "day" job.


I would say that Microdata with 2000+ employees was certainly a 
"mainframe" sized organization, and that didn't stop them from taking 
him on.


Leaving his name off the post, you can google it, so that he doesn't 
have yet another spam catcher in the archives of this list.


One thing you got on the 2600, was almost nothing to do your programming 
on.  There was the rom with lots of code space, but there was I think 
either 256 or 512 bytes of ram total, and 1/2 of it was owned by the 
"system" such as it was.  Fun environment to code for.  The processor 
was 6502.


If you are talking about the arcade operation here in this thread, that 
was separate from the programming staff for the consoles.

Thanks
jim

Chip info reqd: MR9736-002 CRT controller?

[Adrian Graham]

Hi folks,

The restoration of the STC Executel 3910 I mentioned the other day continues
with picture help from another collector who bought one at the same time I
did. 

I've got it powering up and the tiny monitor is trying to display something
but the horizontal hold has gone so I'm suspecting dry joints given the
state of the back of the monitor board and the microcassette drive next to
it when I opened it up for the first time. It's been cleaned and the leaky
battery removed since then, fortunately there's no trace damage from the
alkali.

The display board is powered by the chip in the subject line and neither
myself or google has heard of it. It's a 40 pin DIP that doesn't seem to be
pin compatible with any CRTC I'm aware of.

Anyone?

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/10/2016 11:32 AM, Geoffrey Oltmans wrote:

> Apologies for saying this, but it almost sounds like to me that you
> are validating their "no mainframe programmers wanted" stance. ;)


Not really--it seems to me that a great deal of early work with
microprocessors was successfully done by mainframe people.

No, I think that Nolan Bushnell was repulsed by the high level of
organization in the mainframe business and wanted more of a "bootleg"
software operation; i.e. not products that would last for years.

It was a bit ironic, because most of those feeding quarters into the
racecar game machine at Andy Capp's were, in fact, mainframe people.

--Chuck

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Chuck Guzis]

Don't tape emulator boxes already exist, both for SCSI and Pertec
interfaces?   It seems to me that I've seen a few.

--Chuck

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Paul Koning 
wrote:

>
> > On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Charles Anthony <
> charles.unix@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:51 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:
> >
> >>> Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?
> >>
> >> I am not sure, it looks there is some code in there for tape but its
> very
> >> minimal.
> >> In addition there are no interfaces on the card to select the ".tap"
> file
> >> to be used.
> >>
> >>
> > Not needed; copy the .tap file directly to the SD card, no partition
> > tables, no file system:
> >
> >  dd if=foo.tap of=/dev/sdx
> >
> > Fix up the firmwre (a SMOP) with a pointer to where you are in the .tap
> > data; it starts at block 0, offset 0 at the location would be the first
> > block size word of the .tap data. Treat the disk as a file; read reads
> the
> > data at the pointer and moves the pointer to the end of the read.
> Assuming
> > LBA, the pointer value maps directly to block number/offset.
> >
> > Fill out the SCSI tape commands to use the pointer and the data.
>
> I don't understand how that would work.  A tape device implements SCSI
> tape commands, not block device (disk) commands.  A tape block corresponds
> to the chunk of data in a .TAP file between block header and trailer, and
> its length is given by that header.
>
> If you put a .TAP fie into a raw block device, it's still 512 byte sector
> data on a block device; a tape driver would not understand it.
>

Yes; the firmware needs to parse the .tap data to extract the tape records;
my point was that it was not necessary to add the ability to handle file
systems and file name specification -- if suffices to put the content of
the .tap file on the SD device.

Details: The .tap format is a series of tape records; each record is stored
as a 2 byte byte count, the data (sometimes rounded to an even number of
bytes), and a repeat of the 2 byte byte count. This format supports the
basic tape record operations; you need to keep a pointer to the current
record. A 'tape read' retrieves the byte count from the record pointed to
by the pointer, retrieves the data, and advances the pointer to the next
block. Tape marks are stored as 2 bytes of zeros. Skipping records forward
is done by retrieving the byte count and calculating the new pointer
value.  Skipping backward is done by backing the pointer up 2 bytes, and
retrieving the 2nd copy of the byte count of the previous record, and
calculating how far back to move the pointer. Rewind sets the pointer to 0.

A SCSI tape read command reads the record from the tape file, recovering
the byte count and data, and leaving the pointer pointing to the next
record. If the byte count is 0, the SCSI reply is "tape mark"; otherwise
the reply contains the byte length and the data.

This is more complex then seek/read_block of the disk, but not horribly so.
The bigger problem is the idiosyncratic behavior of SCSI tape drives with
respect to identification, status information and assumed command
sequences, as implemented by the drive manufacturer based on the Very Own
interpretation of the standards.

-- Charles

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Mike Ross]

On Oct 11, 2016 3:48 AM, "emanuel stiebler"  wrote:
>
> On 2016-10-10 12:07, Mike Ross wrote:
>
>> Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?
>
>
> Did anybody try if it works on a VAX?
> The SCSI2SD is the only one whioch I didn't try, now the newer version is
out, and should even be faster. But didn't have the time to try.
>

I have booted my VAX-11/730 from a SCSI2SD connected to an Emulex UC17
without any problems.

Mike

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Mouse  wrote:

> To a point, perhaps.  But some of the old games were just _good_.  My
> own favourite is Tempest, one of the few colour vector games.  24
> _kilo_bytes for the entire game, and it's still one of the most
> engaging games I've ever played.
>

Ooh! Me too! I owned an upright machine for about 10 years. Still my
favorite arcade machine. I believe it was also one of the first machines to
have dedicated hardware for computing 3D vector perspective too.

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Geoffrey Oltmans]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:42 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> On 10/08/2016 06:13 PM, TeoZ wrote:
> >
> > Everybody has something they do to chill out, some drink or jog, or
> > play games.
>
> Certainly, but playing computer games after a hard day in front of the
> number-cruncher seems like a terrible way to detox.
>
> [...]



> I do recall that there was a small start-up that occupied part of the
> lower floor of the "Prudential building' on Moffet Park Drive--we had
> the upper floor as overflow from the main SVLOPS building. I think they
> called themselves "Atari".  A couple of us wandered into their offices
> during lunchtime  and asked about job opportunities.  We were rebuffed
> with a firm "no mainframe programmers wanted".
>

Apologies for saying this, but it almost sounds like to me that you are
validating their "no mainframe programmers wanted" stance. ;)

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Paul Koning]

> On Oct 10, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Charles Anthony  
> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:51 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:
> 
>>> Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?
>> 
>> I am not sure, it looks there is some code in there for tape but its very
>> minimal.
>> In addition there are no interfaces on the card to select the ".tap" file
>> to be used.
>> 
>> 
> Not needed; copy the .tap file directly to the SD card, no partition
> tables, no file system:
> 
>  dd if=foo.tap of=/dev/sdx
> 
> Fix up the firmwre (a SMOP) with a pointer to where you are in the .tap
> data; it starts at block 0, offset 0 at the location would be the first
> block size word of the .tap data. Treat the disk as a file; read reads the
> data at the pointer and moves the pointer to the end of the read. Assuming
> LBA, the pointer value maps directly to block number/offset.
> 
> Fill out the SCSI tape commands to use the pointer and the data.

I don't understand how that would work.  A tape device implements SCSI tape 
commands, not block device (disk) commands.  A tape block corresponds to the 
chunk of data in a .TAP file between block header and trailer, and its length 
is given by that header.

If you put a .TAP fie into a raw block device, it's still 512 byte sector data 
on a block device; a tape driver would not understand it.

It seems like a straightforward task to take such a TAP file image and emulate 
SCSI tape commands on it, but it definitely sounds like real work.

paul

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[jim stephens]

On 10/10/2016 8:24 AM, Charles Anthony wrote:

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:51 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:


Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?

I am not sure, it looks there is some code in there for tape but its very
minimal.
In addition there are no interfaces on the card to select the ".tap" file
to be used.



Not needed; copy the .tap file directly to the SD card, no partition
tables, no file system:

   dd if=foo.tap of=/dev/sdx

Fix up the firmwre (a SMOP) with a pointer to where you are in the .tap
data; it starts at block 0, offset 0 at the location would be the first
block size word of the .tap data. Treat the disk as a file; read reads the
data at the pointer and moves the pointer to the end of the read. Assuming
LBA, the pointer value maps directly to block number/offset.

Fill out the SCSI tape commands to use the pointer and the data.

-- Charles


The only thing I might mention was that the brand name was used on some 
initiators to either behave differently or not at all.  We had an 
emulation in our SCSI development package that emulated an ST-150 and it 
worked on  most initiators, but there were some who didn't like it, and 
once we found out what the identification had to be things were good.


I don't recall what behavior was expected in the off cases, other than 
possibly the block sizes of the transfers.


One could also emulate a half inch drive, vs. a QIC, which can have 
variable block sizes.  Emulating QIC is a bit simpler as you don't have 
to deal with retrieving excess data commands which you might with half inch.


Our system was Peer Protocols 5000 and 7000.  We also had a 0550 narrow 
capture card.  Would be interested if anyone worked with it.

thanks
Jim

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Charles Anthony]

On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 4:51 AM, Dave Wade  wrote:

> > Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?
>
> I am not sure, it looks there is some code in there for tape but its very
> minimal.
> In addition there are no interfaces on the card to select the ".tap" file
> to be used.
>
>
Not needed; copy the .tap file directly to the SD card, no partition
tables, no file system:

  dd if=foo.tap of=/dev/sdx

Fix up the firmwre (a SMOP) with a pointer to where you are in the .tap
data; it starts at block 0, offset 0 at the location would be the first
block size word of the .tap data. Treat the disk as a file; read reads the
data at the pointer and moves the pointer to the end of the read. Assuming
LBA, the pointer value maps directly to block number/offset.

Fill out the SCSI tape commands to use the pointer and the data.

-- Charles

Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]

[Ian S. King]

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Brad H 
wrote:

>
>
>  Original message 
> From: "Ian S. King" 
> Date: 2016-10-09  5:08 PM  (GMT-08:00)
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Twiggys [was: Re: ka... ching!]
>
> On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Brad H  bettercomputing.net>
> wrote:
>
> So the Cliff Notes version of this is I need to find a copy of SWTPC's
> assembler?  (Pretty sure I've seen it referenced somewhere)


If you want to run natively, i.e. assemble programs on the 6800, yes.  I'm
using asm68c to cross-assemble from a *nix machine.  It generates S-records
that can be transferred to the 6800 over the serial line.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[emanuel stiebler]

On 2016-10-10 12:07, Mike Ross wrote:


Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?


Did anybody try if it works on a VAX?
The SCSI2SD is the only one whioch I didn't try, now the newer version 
is out, and should even be faster. But didn't have the time to try.


And, SCSI2SD was open-source? So it should be easy to add the .tap files ...

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Aaron Jackson]

> I am "playing" with a small VAX and want to install software onto it, some
> of which are in SIMH ".tap" format files. I was thinking it would be nice to
> have a SCSI Tape emulator that worked a bit like the USB floppy emulators
> that are about.

It would be nice! Not the same, but there is a perl script you may use
to write to the .tap file to a tape device. As I say, different but may
still be useful to some.

http://yagi.h-net.msu.edu/tapcat.pl

thanks to pjustice on #classiccmp irc for this link.


Aaron.

RE: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Dave Wade]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mike Ross
> Sent: 10 October 2016 11:07
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Re: SCSI Tape Emulator
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016 10:06 PM, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I am "playing" with a small VAX and want to install software onto it,
> > some of which are in SIMH ".tap" format files. I was thinking it would
> > be nice
> to
> > have a SCSI Tape emulator that worked a bit like the USB floppy
> > emulators that are about.
> >
> > So it would plug into the SCSI bus and allow ".TAP" (and other tape
> formats)
> > stored on some kind of flash memory, say USB or SD card perhaps, to be
> read
> > by real hardware.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does this sound usefull to any one? Any other thoughts on how this
> > could
> be
> > achieved?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dave Wade
> >
> > G4UGM & EA7KAE
> 
> Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?

I am not sure, it looks there is some code in there for tape but its very 
minimal.
In addition there are no interfaces on the card to select the ".tap" file to be 
used.

Dave

> 
> Mike

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[aswood]

This would be a quite useful device, not only for SCSI, but for other 
interfaces also.

> Am 10.10.2016 um 11:06 schrieb Dave Wade :
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I am "playing" with a small VAX and want to install software onto it, some
> of which are in SIMH ".tap" format files. I was thinking it would be nice to
> have a SCSI Tape emulator that worked a bit like the USB floppy emulators
> that are about.
> 
> So it would plug into the SCSI bus and allow ".TAP" (and other tape formats)
> stored on some kind of flash memory, say USB or SD card perhaps, to be read
> by real hardware.
> 
> 
> 
> Does this sound usefull to any one? Any other thoughts on how this could be
> achieved?
> 
> 
> 
> Dave Wade
> 
> G4UGM & EA7KAE
> 
> 
> 

Re: SCSI Tape Emulator

[Mike Ross]

On Oct 10, 2016 10:06 PM, "Dave Wade"  wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I am "playing" with a small VAX and want to install software onto it, some
> of which are in SIMH ".tap" format files. I was thinking it would be nice
to
> have a SCSI Tape emulator that worked a bit like the USB floppy emulators
> that are about.
>
> So it would plug into the SCSI bus and allow ".TAP" (and other tape
formats)
> stored on some kind of flash memory, say USB or SD card perhaps, to be
read
> by real hardware.
>
>
>
> Does this sound usefull to any one? Any other thoughts on how this could
be
> achieved?
>
>
>
> Dave Wade
>
> G4UGM & EA7KAE

Would it not be a SMOP to get a SCSI2SD device to emulate a tape drive?

Mike

Re: New acquisition. Ploycorp Poly 1. New Zealand school computer

[cctech]

On 2016-10-08 22:33, Terry Stewart wrote:

Hi guys,

In case anyone is interested...
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2016-10-9-poly-acquisition.htm

This could have been the BBC of New Zealand schools... (-:

Terry (Tez)


Thank-you for this; it brings back some memories.

I visited Wellington Polytech late 1980 as part of a VUW school 
mathematics camp (for want of a better word). At that stage it was still 
called Polywog and wasn't the finished unit you have, just a set of 
boards.


Lawrence

SCSI Tape Emulator

[Dave Wade]

Folks,

I am "playing" with a small VAX and want to install software onto it, some
of which are in SIMH ".tap" format files. I was thinking it would be nice to
have a SCSI Tape emulator that worked a bit like the USB floppy emulators
that are about.

So it would plug into the SCSI bus and allow ".TAP" (and other tape formats)
stored on some kind of flash memory, say USB or SD card perhaps, to be read
by real hardware.

 

Does this sound usefull to any one? Any other thoughts on how this could be
achieved?

 

Dave Wade

G4UGM & EA7KAE

 

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 28, Issue 4

[Travis Ayres]

I'm interested!

I'm down in California and I also have no idea what it's worth, I'm new to
the PDP scene.

On Oct 9, 2016 10:00 AM,  wrote:

> Send cctech mailing list submissions to
> cct...@classiccmp.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctech
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> cctech-requ...@classiccmp.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> cctech-ow...@classiccmp.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon (Scott Baker)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 11:31:29 -0700
> From: Scott Baker 
> To: cct...@classiccmp.org
> Subject: PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon
> Message-ID:
>  gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi,
>
> Pictures can be found here: http://sierracircuitdesign.
> ddns.net/temp/pdp11/
>
> The system is located in Portland, Oregon. Local pick-up is preferred.
> Not sure if it still works. I have not tried to turn it on in years.
> I do not have any software of floppies for it.
> I'm not sure what it's worth. If you are interested in it, make me an
> offer.
>
> Regards,
> Scott
>
>
> End of cctech Digest, Vol 28, Issue 4
> *
>

Re: cctech Digest, Vol 28, Issue 4

[Ian S. King]

>
> > --
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 11:31:29 -0700
> > From: Scott Baker 
> > To: cct...@classiccmp.org
> > Subject: PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon
> > Message-ID:
> >  > gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Pictures can be found here: http://sierracircuitdesign.
> > ddns.net/temp/pdp11/
> >
> > The system is located in Portland, Oregon. Local pick-up is preferred.
> > Not sure if it still works. I have not tried to turn it on in years.
> > I do not have any software of floppies for it.
> > I'm not sure what it's worth. If you are interested in it, make me an
> > offer.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > End of cctech Digest, Vol 28, Issue 4
> > *
> >
>

Hi Scott,

I'm talking with my colleagues at the People's Computer Museum about
perhaps making you an offer.  We're in Seattle, so it's a quick roadtrip to
pick up.  Just FYI, I'll contact you privately to let you know what
consensus we reach.  Thanks -- Ian

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: large Wire wrap cards

[Chuck Guzis]

On 10/09/2016 03:58 PM, Brent Hilpert wrote:

> Exactly what machine they came out of, who knows, but the two
> different-sized card edge connectors and the power supply pinout
> would suggest they are Multibus boards.

Agreed.

--Chuck

Re: large Wire wrap cards

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2016-Oct-09, at 2:22 PM, devin davison wrote:
> I picked up 3 of these a while back, I am unsure of what kind of machine
> they go to. The plan was to use them to prototype on, but then I found some
> even better wire wrap boards and set these aside. I did not want to have to
> go through getting all the wire off of them.
> 
> They are up for sale or trade if anyone is interested, I am just curious if
> anyone knows what they came out of.
> 
> gallery :
> https://postimg.org/gallery/1tizoqomi/

Exactly what machine they came out of, who knows, but the two different-sized 
card edge connectors
and the power supply pinout would suggest they are Multibus boards.
e.g.:

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/intel/_busSpec/9800683D_Intel_Multibus_Specification%20Jun82.pdf
see page 85

Re: large Wire wrap cards

[Eric Smith]

They look like Multibus (I).

Re: large Wire wrap cards

[jim stephens]

On 10/9/2016 2:22 PM, devin davison wrote:

I picked up 3 of these a while back, I am unsure of what kind of machine
they go to. The plan was to use them to prototype on, but then I found some
even better wire wrap boards and set these aside. I did not want to have to
go through getting all the wire off of them.

They are up for sale or trade if anyone is interested, I am just curious if
anyone knows what they came out of.

gallery :
https://postimg.org/gallery/1tizoqomi/

--devin


The edge looks like Multibus, but the height looks too tall for standard 
Multibus form factor.


A friend here in Southern California did custom boards, usually for 
prototypes, or one or a few off systems for such as Northrup, TRW and 
Douglas and the like that ranged from board like this up to some that 
were 24" x 24" and all medium scale DIP technology.


This looks neat enough that it may have been machine wrapped, and is 
probably from some such custom system.  The builder probably used the 
multibus backplane for interconnect if for no other reason than the 
backplanes would be cheap and available at the time (considering this 
was probably about a $15,000 to $20,000 job).


Is the base board Augat?  They had a huge line of different boards of 
all sorts and shapes and sizes.


thanks
Jim

--
Note change in email address.  Please use reply-to
address.  TWC is changing their email and this may
change again reply to is jwsm...@jwsss.com

large Wire wrap cards

[devin davison]

I picked up 3 of these a while back, I am unsure of what kind of machine
they go to. The plan was to use them to prototype on, but then I found some
even better wire wrap boards and set these aside. I did not want to have to
go through getting all the wire off of them.

They are up for sale or trade if anyone is interested, I am just curious if
anyone knows what they came out of.

gallery :
https://postimg.org/gallery/1tizoqomi/

--devin

PDP-11/23 System available for sale in Bedford, NH

[Stephen Pereira]

Hello all,

I have my PDP-11/23 system for sale in Bedford, NH.

Please see this message thread at VCFED.ORG  for my 
description:

http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?54193-FS-Clean-fully-working-PDP-11-23-system
 


I would greatly prefer local pickup, but if necessary, we can discuss what 
shipping to your location might cost, and how much time it might take me to get 
the equipment properly packaged for shipment.

smp
--
Stephen M. Pereira
Bedford, NH  03110
KB1SXE

Re: PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon

[Glen Slick]

On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Scott Baker  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Pictures can be found here: http://sierracircuitdesign.ddns.net/temp/pdp11/
>
> The system is located in Portland, Oregon. Local pick-up is preferred.
> Not sure if it still works. I have not tried to turn it on in years.
> I do not have any software of floppies for it.
> I'm not sure what it's worth. If you are interested in it, make me an offer.
>

The boards appear to be the following in the photos:
M8186   KDF11-A 11/23 CPU
?   256KB parity RAM
?   DSD disk interface for the DSD-440?
?   bus grant card?
M8028   DLV11-F Async interface
M8012   BDV11   Bus terminator, bootstrap and diagnostic ROMs
M8016   KPV11   Power fail, realtime clock, (termination)

In some of the photos the M8012 BDV11 is installed upside down. Make
sure you don't power it on that way.

Should make a usable system for someone local to pickup.

PDP-11/23 system for sale in Portland Oregon

[Scott Baker]

Hi,

Pictures can be found here: http://sierracircuitdesign.ddns.net/temp/pdp11/

The system is located in Portland, Oregon. Local pick-up is preferred.
Not sure if it still works. I have not tried to turn it on in years.
I do not have any software of floppies for it.
I'm not sure what it's worth. If you are interested in it, make me an offer.

Regards,
Scott