RE: Morrow MD-3P Portable MicroDecision

[CuriousMarc]

Incredibly clean unit. Museum quality ;-)
Marc

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Al Kossow
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2017 11:54 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Morrow MD-3P Portable MicroDecision


www.ebay.com/itm/302178528335

bought for the CHM collection.


This is the first one I've ever seen. I don't remember if the Morrow sons 
auctioned one off when they were selling off George's shop.

It's essentially a MicroDecision III and MT-70 terminal according to the notes 
I scanned.

Re: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)

[Pete Turnbull]

On 07/01/2017 04:08, Robert Armstrong w#rote:

Paul Koning  wrote:
one would think unplugging the power to the head actuator coils  ...


  One might think that, and that plan works for an RK05, but an RL02 is
smarter.  Unless the heads go on cylinder within a few seconds of the head
load signal, the drive logic just faults and spins down again.  Not very
useful...  What's needed is a way to stall or fake out the drive startup
state machine logic.


I haven't done this for a while, but I think it might work if you also 
disable the SK TO (Seek Timeout) signal on the main logic board, and 
maybe also POS SIG (Position Signal).


There are several setup and adjustment procedures that require one to 
move the heads by hand, including right back onto the loading ramp. 
You'd do this with the cover open, the logic board swung up and resting 
on its clip at the back of the drive, and with the amplifier box turned 
to a vertical position sitting on its right-hand supports.  The 
procedures require the above signals to be disabled, and the servo drive 
(the single inline connector under the amplifier box) to be 
disconnected.  However, they all start by pressing LOAD and allowing the 
heads to load at least as far as the loading area at the outside edge of 
the disk before disconnecting the servo drive; I can't remember if the 
heads actually go beyond that into the area where the data tracks are.


How you disable the signals depends on the version of the main logic 
board - there are three different types, all described in the pocket 
service guide.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Drum Computers (Was Cleaning things (was Cleaning RK05 packs (Was: LGP-30 Memory Drum Update)))

[jim stephens]

On 1/6/2017 6:46 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:

Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the computer business.  
But...it was.
They inflicted the write only media on the world that became QIC. So 
they were in the biz long enough to do that.


Media never intended to be recorded at the densities most devices 
recorded at, and never intended to have the tape move at the speeds it 
did inside the cartridge.  Won't go on and on about it, old topic.


They did make a tape drive of some sort, I recall seeing they marketed 
something to read and write their own tapes a very long time ago.


thanks
jim

Does anybody have a KIM-1 for sale?

[Vintage Perfect]

Hi all!

Wishing you all a happy new year :)

I'm looking for a KIM-1 system and/or any other related hardware, the
earlier the better! If you have one you'd like to sell, please drop me a
line :)

-A

Re: Drum Computers (Was Cleaning things (was Cleaning RK05 packs (Was: LGP-30 Memory Drum Update)))

[Chris Elmquist]

On January 7, 2017 5:06:32 AM CST, jim stephens  wrote:
>
>
>On 1/6/2017 6:46 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>> Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the computer
>business.  But...it was.
>They inflicted the write only media on the world that became QIC. So 
>they were in the biz long enough to do that.
>
>Media never intended to be recorded at the densities most devices 
>recorded at, and never intended to have the tape move at the speeds it 
>did inside the cartridge.  Won't go on and on about it, old topic.
>
>They did make a tape drive of some sort, I recall seeing they marketed 
>something to read and write their own tapes a very long time ago.
>
>thanks
>jim

Everything "computer" that 3M did became Imation's and the Imation world 
headquarters here in Oakdale MN is now a giant empty building with a tattered 
"for lease" tarp covering up the Imation logo sign at the entrance to the 
property.  Rumor has it the facility may become the HQ for a furniture store 
called Slumberland.  Oh, the irony.

Chris

-- 
Chris Elmquist

Re: Homebrew Z80

[Liam Proven]

On 6 January 2017 at 20:52, Brad H  wrote:
>
>
> I've put some pics of it here:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4pq0-BHd2x6bjY3MTRZbGRCQmM?usp=shar
> ing
>
>
>
> Thoughts/opinions welcome.


The logo is right there on one of the boards.

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/TV_Typewriter.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Typewriter

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Yugoslavian Computer Magazine Cover Girls of the 1980s and 1990s

[Liam Proven]

On 7 January 2017 at 05:01, drlegendre .  wrote:
> I liked the one with the guy seated at a "desk" which is apparently
> outfitted with nothing more than a color dot-matrix printer and a telephone
> set. Must be a serious power-user, then..

Yes,  I liked that. And WORDPERFERCT. :-D

> But, at least to my eye, the women are much more attractive than the
> typical eastern-european models - with their unending parade of angular
> eyes and faces with unnaturally high cheekbones.

I live in (arguably) Eastern Europe. If that's your stereotype of
Slavic women, I can assure you it's incorrect.

OTOH this is their reaction to British beauty...

http://metro.co.uk/2014/11/21/czech-gossip-site-blurs-out-miss-great-britains-face-because-british-women-are-not-beautiful-4957085/

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Drum Computers (Was Cleaning things (was Cleaning RK05 packs (Was: LGP-30 Memory Drum Update)))

[Al Kossow]

On 1/7/17 3:06 AM, jim stephens wrote:


They did make a tape drive of some sort


They made several generations, what I've found on their cartridge tape 
drives is under 3M on bitsavers. All use variations of their trade 
secret or what eventually became QIC standard tape formats.


The 1/4" tape drive division was sold to Gorgens Industries in San Diego

further discussion at 
http://www.vcfed.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-52604.html

Re: Homebrew Z80

[Brad H]

You might be looking at my TVT project.. sorry.  The z80 computer is mixed in 
there.  Here's a direct shot of its motherboard:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4pq0-BHd2x6WmVQZjctMzFadlk/view?usp=drivesdk


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Liam Proven  
Date: 2017-01-07  6:37 AM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"  
Subject: Re: Homebrew Z80 

On 6 January 2017 at 20:52, Brad H  wrote:
>
>
> I've put some pics of it here:
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4pq0-BHd2x6bjY3MTRZbGRCQmM?usp=shar
> ing
>
>
>
> Thoughts/opinions welcome.


The logo is right there on one of the boards.

http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/RadioElectronics/TV_Typewriter.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Typewriter

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Talk/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn/AIM/Yahoo: liamproven
UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR/WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal: +420 702 829 053

Re: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)

[Jerry Weiss]

> On Jan 7, 2017, at 3:42 AM, Pete Turnbull  wrote:
> 
> On 07/01/2017 04:08, Robert Armstrong w#rote:
>>> Paul Koning  wrote:
>>> one would think unplugging the power to the head actuator coils  ...
>> 
>>  One might think that, and that plan works for an RK05, but an RL02 is
>> smarter.  Unless the heads go on cylinder within a few seconds of the head
>> load signal, the drive logic just faults and spins down again.  Not very
>> useful...  What's needed is a way to stall or fake out the drive startup
>> state machine logic.
> 
> I haven't done this for a while, but I think it might work if you also 
> disable the SK TO (Seek Timeout) signal on the main logic board, and maybe 
> also POS SIG (Position Signal).
> 
> There are several setup and adjustment procedures that require one to move 
> the heads by hand, including right back onto the loading ramp. You'd do this 
> with the cover open, the logic board swung up and resting on its clip at the 
> back of the drive, and with the amplifier box turned to a vertical position 
> sitting on its right-hand supports.  The procedures require the above signals 
> to be disabled, and the servo drive (the single inline connector under the 
> amplifier box) to be disconnected.  However, they all start by pressing LOAD 
> and allowing the heads to load at least as far as the loading area at the 
> outside edge of the disk before disconnecting the servo drive; I can't 
> remember if the heads actually go beyond that into the area where the data 
> tracks are.
> 
> How you disable the signals depends on the version of the main logic board - 
> there are three different types, all described in the pocket service guide.
> 
> -- 
> Pete
> Pete Turnbull


What is the best way to approach evaluating old RL02 Packs for cleaning?  Does 
anyone have experience opening up all the little plastic tabs on the covers?  
I have a large stash of RL02’s that I had planned to backup.   I was planning 
on just doing a visual inspection on each before loading.

The only disassembly information I have found uses the proverbial hammer  - 
http://williambader.com/museum/vax/43rl02topremoval.jpg 


Jerry

Re: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)

[j...@cimmeri.com]

On 1/7/2017 11:44 AM, Jerry Weiss wrote:
What is the best way to approach evaluating old RL02 Packs for 
cleaning? Does anyone have experience opening up all the little 
plastic tabs on the covers? I have a large stash of RL02’s that I had 
planned to backup. I was planning on just doing a visual inspection on 
each before loading. The only disassembly information I have found 
uses the proverbial hammer - 
http://williambader.com/museum/vax/43rl02topremoval.jpg 
 Jerry 


With mine, in a darkened room, I shone a flashlight in perpendicularly 
to reveal what debris was on the platter surface.  In all cases of the 
few packs I had to process, there was a light coating of dust on the 
platters, so I disassembled the pack and washed as previously posted.


For me, they had to be dust free before use.

They were not hard to diassemble, but there was a trick to the handle 
part (which I forget).


- J.

Re: Drum Computers (Was Cleaning things (was Cleaning RK05 packs (Was: LGP-30 Memory Drum Update)))

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/07/2017 07:01 AM, Al Kossow wrote:
> On 1/7/17 3:06 AM, jim stephens wrote:
> 
>> They did make a tape drive of some sort
> 
> They made several generations, what I've found on their cartridge
> tape drives is under 3M on bitsavers. All use variations of their
> trade secret or what eventually became QIC standard tape formats.
> 
> The 1/4" tape drive division was sold to Gorgens Industries in San
> Diego

You can find non-3M tape drives with 3M-copyrighted ROMs inside.  I have
one such--an ADIC Iotamat drive, which uses, IIRC, a 6800 CPU.

As far as QIC, goes, it was cheap and it aged badly.  I recall calling
3M (long before the Imation spinoff) asking about a DC300 tape cart that
I had where the driver misfunctioned and the tape came off the reel.

I was advised by the tech support guy to disassemble the cartridge and
moisten the loose end of the tape with saliva and stick it to the takeup
reel and manually wind the tape until I reached the BOT marker holes,
then reassemble the cartridge.  It worked, but he seemed to be a bit
ashamed to tell me to use saliva as a temporary adhesive.

FWIW, I'd always found the techs at 3M/Imation or the Federal operation
set up by them to be very helpful.

None of which makes me like QIC any better.

--Chuck

Re: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)

[Pete Turnbull]

On 07/01/2017 16:44, Jerry Weiss wrote:


What is the best way to approach evaluating old RL02 Packs for
cleaning?  Does anyone have experience opening up all the little
plastic tabs on the covers? I have a large stash of RL02’s that I had
planned to backup.   I was planning on just doing a visual inspection
on each before loading.


That part is easy.  Turn it upside down, and for each of the tabs, 
insert a small (1/4") flat-blade screwdriver into the rectangular hole 
by each tab, turn it so that the side moves away from the bottom cover 
sufficiently, then slip a smaller screwdriver into the gap between the 
side and the bottom cover, and lever it up slightly.  Repeat until you 
have all the tabs undone and the bottom cover lifts off.


That lets you at the lower surface.  I can't remember how to take the 
platter out; IIRC it involves dong something to the cover on the handle. 
I just use a torch to look at it, through the side.


I wouldn't worry about a little fine dust.  It's not an RK05 and they're 
very robust.  I once had one make a wierd noise when spun up - the 
"ting" did sound a little like an RK05 head crash.  It turned out a 
spider had decided it was a good warm dry place to live, but all I had 
to do was clean the rest of the spider off the head.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Spinning up RL02 w/o head load ? (was Cleaning RK05 packs)

[Pete Turnbull]

On 07/01/2017 18:01, Pete Turnbull wrote:

That part is easy.  Turn it upside down, and for each of the tabs,
insert a small (1/4") flat-blade screwdriver into the rectangular hole
by each tab, turn it so that the side moves away from the bottom cover
sufficiently, then slip a smaller screwdriver into the gap between the
side and the bottom cover, and lever it up slightly.  Repeat until you
have all the tabs undone and the bottom cover lifts off.

That lets you at the lower surface.  I can't remember how to take the
platter out; IIRC it involves dong something to the cover on the handle.
I just use a torch to look at it, through the side.


A little refresher (experimentation) later...

Take the cover (the part with the slide) off the handle.  Inside you'll 
see a white bar with two inset steel pins that hold the hooks that hold 
the platter hub.  The handle pivots on plastic parts at each side; take 
them out.  That lets you slide the whole handle, when it's in the down 
position, about 1/4" towards the edge.  Do that, making sure the white 
plastic bar moves with the handle, and it will release the pins from the 
hooks and the platter will fall out (so do this with it resting on a 
safe surface - NOT in the lid, or the hub's magnets will stick it to the 
lid).


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: Stripping an RA80

[Pontus Pihlgren]

Hi

I think you should sacrifice the RA80 for a working R80. I know there 
are several RA80 in the wild but I've never heard of a R80.

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 05:26:50PM +, Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> 3) Those that are of no use in the R80, but are not too hard to store
> Personality board
> Control panel
> SDI cabling
> 

I'm curious. I have an RM80 (which I intend to use as is). But would the 
RA80 personality board be possible to transplant into an RM80 to read or 
write its content?

/P

Re: Stripping an RA80

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 7, 2017, at 1:48 PM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:
> 
> ...I'm curious. I have an RM80 (which I intend to use as is). But would the 
> RA80 personality board be possible to transplant into an RM80 to read or 
> write its content?

I doubt it.  The RM80 uses a track format with a spare sector per track, while 
the RA80 using MSCP bad block replacement to deal with bad sectors.

paul

Vintage computer keyboards, computers, and other stuff

[Electronics Plus]

Some is not so vintage, but most of it is. https://elecshopper.com 

Yes, I will ship internationally, but the value on the customs forms will
reflect the actual price paid, as do the invoices.

Look around, maybe find something interesting.

The RSS feeds are at https://elecshopper.com/RSS if you want to keep an eye
on new additions, sales, etc.

More products are usually added every day.

 

Cindy Croxton

Electronics Plus

1613 Water Street

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-370-3239 cell

sa...@elecplus.com

AOL IM elcpls

 

Re: Stripping an RA80

[Tony Duell]

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 6:48 PM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:
> Hi
>
> I think you should sacrifice the RA80 for a working R80. I know there
> are several RA80 in the wild but I've never heard of a R80.

Well, actually I think you own an R80 but don't know it :-)

As I understand it, the R80 had the sort-of SMD interface. 2 cables
(60 and 26 wires). It's not SMD, there are significant differences, but
anyway.

The RM80 is an R80 with a Massbus interface box in the stand. Or at
least I think it is. I've not got any technical documentation on that unit.
If you have one, can you tell me what the cabling between the drive and
Massbus interface is? And if the 'personality board' (the smaller of the
2 hinged boards under the top cover) matches that in the R80 manuals.

The RA80 has the SDI interface.

The bare R80 (no external Massbus interface) was used with the IDC
(Integrated Disk Controller) on the VAX11/730. That controller can link
to up to 4 drives, one can be an R80, the others RL02s. I have the
compact 11/730 configuration, a half-height rack containing the CPU,
an R80 and a TS05 magtape (Cipher F880).

There are basically the following modules in the drive :

HDA  : I am pretty sure the physical HDA is the same on all drives. The
servo information should be the same too. Maybe the data surfaces are
formatted differently.

PSU : There are at least 2 versions of the PSU which are very different
internally (so if you are working on one you need the RA82 printset from
bitsavers as well!). But it's not drive-specific

R/W PCB. Sits on top of the HDA and AFAIK is the same in all drives

Microprocessor PCB. An 8085 and a lot of paralell I/O. It uses the 8155
RAM I/O chips and thr 8755 ROM I/O chips. And a lot of other logic too.
The ROMs are different between the R80 and RA80, but the board is the
same apart from that. Annoyingly the ROMs in the RA80 are in sockets,
those in the R80 are not

Servo PCB. A lot of analogue and digital circuitry to drive the positioner.
AFAIK t's the same in all drives

Personality PCB. The host interface. The RA80 and R80 ones are totally
different for obvious reasons.

Control panel. A few illuminated pushbutton switches. The R80 one is
quite simple, the only electtonics on it are the lamp drivers. The RA80
one has the later drive select swtiching (wider ready lamp with a cap
that you break pegs off to set the drive number) and also has the drive
serial number, revision level, etc set by DIP switches and DIP shunts.
It still plugs into the same connector on the microprocessor PCB and
thus the RA80 control panel is stuffed with multiplexers.

Getting back to my dilemma. I need an R80. I do not need an RA80.

I may try to run the internal diagnostics on the RA80. Check the PSU
first of course.

I almost certainly will take the gas strut brackets, etc from the RA80.
Making them is a right pain!. I would consider trying to source the
screws, etc, and make the missing cables for the R80, but only if
somebody really wants an RA80 intact. I don't want to keep the thing
in my machine room for no purpose.

Rest assured that any 'useful' bits will be saved no matter what. I
will certanly keep all PCBs, HDA, PSU, motor, etc.


> On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 05:26:50PM +, Tony Duell wrote:
>>
>> 3) Those that are of no use in the R80, but are not too hard to store
>> Personality board
>> Control panel
>> SDI cabling
>>
>
> I'm curious. I have an RM80 (which I intend to use as is). But would the
> RA80 personality board be possible to transplant into an RM80 to read or
> write its content?

It would certainly need the RA80 ROMs and contol panel. I think then you could
get a working drive, but it may well not be able to read the format of an RM80
HDA. You could probably reformat the HDA to work, but that rather defeats
the purpose of what you are doing.

-tony



>
> /P

Re: Stripping an RA80

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Sat, Jan 07, 2017 at 08:00:43PM +, Tony Duell wrote:
> 
> The RM80 is an R80 with a Massbus interface box in the stand. Or at
> least I think it is. I've not got any technical documentation on that unit.

I sounds like what I've got..

> If you have one, can you tell me what the cabling between the drive and
> Massbus interface is? And if the 'personality board' (the smaller of the
> 2 hinged boards under the top cover) matches that in the R80 manuals.

I can't get to it at the moment. But I'm cleaning that area in the 
comming weeks and can look.

/P

Re: Stripping an RA80

[Tony Duell]

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 8:08 PM, Pontus Pihlgren  wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 07, 2017 at 08:00:43PM +, Tony Duell wrote:
>>
>> The RM80 is an R80 with a Massbus interface box in the stand. Or at
>> least I think it is. I've not got any technical documentation on that unit.
>
> I sounds like what I've got..
>
>> If you have one, can you tell me what the cabling between the drive and
>> Massbus interface is? And if the 'personality board' (the smaller of the
>> 2 hinged boards under the top cover) matches that in the R80 manuals.
>
> I can't get to it at the moment. But I'm cleaning that area in the
> comming weeks and can look.

I've just re-read the printsets...

The microprocesor boards in the R80 and RA80 printsets are different. They
have different layouts. But the circuitry looks at first glance to be much the
same. Whether this is just a revision level thing I don't know. I will look over
it more carefully. At first glace the external connectors seem to have the same
pinouts.

Interestingly the personallity board in the R80 printset is called the RM80
personality board. Suggesting that as I thought the RM80 is the R80 with
a Massbus interface box.

The microprocessor board includes the write data encoder and the read
data separator. There is a clock/data pair for each to the personality
board. The R80 (and thus RM80) personality board just buffers them
and sends them to the 26 way host cable. The low level format is thus
determined by the controller. I have no reason to assume that an RM80's
controller uses the same format as the VAX11/730 IDC.

The RA80 personality board has some circuitry between the clock/data
lines to the microprocessor board (and thus eventually to the heads) and
the host cables. But not that much circuitry, I've not looked at it seriously
yet (after all it's the one part I will not be using). Certainly not enough to
have a sector data buffer. So my guess is that againg the host does a lot
of the low-ish level stuff.

-tony

Re: Yugoslavian Computer Magazine Cover Girls of the 1980s and 1990s

[Andrew Burton]

On Fri, Jan 06, 2017 at 06:45:56PM +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
> An image gallery of cheesy -- and cheese-cakey -- magazine covers from
> what were for me the golden days.
> But the UK mags weren't ever like this.

Most weren't. I have an issue of one of the unofficial Mega Drive magazines
from the early 90's which did have a hot picture of Madchen Amick inside the
back cover.


Regards,
Andrew Burton
aliensrcoo...@yahoo.co.uk
www.aliensrcooluk.com

Unknown keyboard

[Kyle Owen]

Does anyone have an idea what this keyboard went to? The "here is" key
tells me it's likely a terminal, but the hex key pad is throwing me off.

Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/zTgR2

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: Drum Computers

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 6, 2017, at 9:46 PM, Rick Bensene  wrote:
> 
> ...
> The machine was made by Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing (aka 3M 
> Corporation). Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the 
> computer business.  But...it was.  

Not a drum computer but another example of a company not known for computers 
that nevertheless built one: Goodyear.  A supercomputer called STARAN, a very 
odd architecture.  Actually based on an earlier one built at Sanders Associates 
(a defense contractor) invented by a friend of ours, William Shooman.

The Computer Museum, back when it was at Digital in their Marlboro, MA 
building, had pieces of the STARAN.

paul

Re: Unknown keyboard

[Ian S. King]

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 2:16 PM, Kyle Owen  wrote:

> Does anyone have an idea what this keyboard went to? The "here is" key
> tells me it's likely a terminal, but the hex key pad is throwing me off.
>
> Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/zTgR2
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kyle
>

I recall having one of those, many years ago - and I had/have no idea where
or what it came from.  But it was definitely the same keyboard, I remember
the unique hex pad.

-- 
Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS, Ph.D. Candidate
The Information School 
Dissertation: "Why the Conversation Mattered: Constructing a Sociotechnical
Narrative Through a Design Lens

Archivist, Voices From the Rwanda Tribunal 
Value Sensitive Design Research Lab 

University of Washington

There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."

Re: Stripping an RA80

[Al Kossow]

On 1/7/17 12:22 PM, Tony Duell wrote:

> Interestingly the personallity board in the R80 printset is called the RM80
> personality board. Suggesting that as I thought the RM80 is the R80 with
> a Massbus interface box.
> 

RM == "Minnow"

The R80 started out life as the disk for the ill-fated little PDP-10 called 
"Minnow"
and was reused in the VAX 11/730

Friden Auxiliary Reader

[Kyle Owen]

I guess I'm on a roll, trying to find out what some things are in the
collection. Any idea what this paper tape reader could've been connected
to?

http://imgur.com/a/DjRj7

Thanks,

Kyle

RE: Friden Auxiliary Reader

[Dave Wade]

I would guess a flexowriter. I havn't seen one with two readers, but when I 
worked for an Insurance Company ours had two punches (and one reader). 
They were used to print Policies and capture the policy information for the 
master file as these were mixed case documents and the line printers we had 
were upper case only.
The input tape contained the Policy wording and had stop codes that marked the 
places for the variable information, such as policy holder, life assured, 
premium etc.
As the dataentry operator typed these they were captured on one punch for input 
to the Mainframe, a Honeywell H200 via a paper tape to mag tape converter,
and also onto a second tape that was re-read  to produce a fancy 
folder/wallet/encvolope into which the policy was inserted for safe keeping. If 
I can find any of my policies I will scan them.

I can envisage systems in which the variable information also came on paper 
tape, thus needing two readers on the Flexowriter, and there being codes on the 
tapes to switch between the two inputs...

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Kyle Owen
> Sent: 07 January 2017 22:50
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: Friden Auxiliary Reader
> 
> I guess I'm on a roll, trying to find out what some things are in the 
> collection.
> Any idea what this paper tape reader could've been connected to?
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/DjRj7
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kyle

Re: Friden Auxiliary Reader

[Al Kossow]

programatic flexowriter
seen in
74-221_Friden_Programatic_Flexowriter_Brochure.pdf
and
74-204_Friden_Computyper_Brochure.pdf

On 1/7/17 2:50 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
> I guess I'm on a roll, trying to find out what some things are in the
> collection. Any idea what this paper tape reader could've been connected
> to?
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/DjRj7
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kyle
> 

Re: Friden Auxiliary Reader

[Al Kossow]

and
Friden_SFD_Brochure.pdf

On 1/7/17 3:19 PM, Al Kossow wrote:
> programatic flexowriter
> seen in
> 74-221_Friden_Programatic_Flexowriter_Brochure.pdf
> and
> 74-204_Friden_Computyper_Brochure.pdf
> 
> On 1/7/17 2:50 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:
>> I guess I'm on a roll, trying to find out what some things are in the
>> collection. Any idea what this paper tape reader could've been connected
>> to?
>>
>> http://imgur.com/a/DjRj7
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kyle
>>
> 

Re: Friden Auxiliary Reader

[Cory Heisterkamp]

On Jan 7, 2017, at 4:50 PM, Kyle Owen wrote:

> I guess I'm on a roll, trying to find out what some things are in the
> collection. Any idea what this paper tape reader could've been connected
> to?
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/DjRj7
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kyle


Kyle, 

That reader teams up with Friden's "standard" Flexowriter, though they got used 
for lots of other applications. They even had a dual-read unit with a ganged 
clutch. The idea being you put your canned form letter on reader A and the 
reader B contains the names/addresses of your customers. 

I've got a dual-head unit here that was modified for use in color photography 
post-processing but the cable was cut off flush. One head was chrominance and 
the other luminance. -C

Re: Drum Computers

[allison]

On 01/07/2017 11:44 AM, Paul Koning wrote:
>> On Jan 6, 2017, at 9:46 PM, Rick Bensene  wrote:
>>
>> ...
>> The machine was made by Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing (aka 3M 
>> Corporation). Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the 
>> computer business.  But...it was.  
> Not a drum computer but another example of a company not known for computers 
> that nevertheless built one: Goodyear.  A supercomputer called STARAN, a very 
> odd architecture.  Actually based on an earlier one built at Sanders 
> Associates (a defense contractor) invented by a friend of ours, William 
> Shooman.
>
> The Computer Museum, back when it was at Digital in their Marlboro, MA 
> building, had pieces of the STARAN.
>
>   paul
>
>
>
RIght up there with Cincinnati Millichron  The CM2000, 2100, 2200,
TTLBitslice (6700) 16bit, and core machine my contact
with it was 1974.  I'd be hard pressed to prove they existed.

Allison

More circuit help required please

[Adrian Graham]

Evening all,

I wish I had the ability to take a board layout and turn it into a logically
laid out schematic but as yet I don't. Video sync on my Executel 3910 is
still running me round in circles so could one of you fine folk take a look
at this board layout drawn as best I can:

http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/STCExecutelSyncCircuit.jpg

...and let me know what it does please? The chip on the left is a Plessey
MR9735 teletext video driver wired to run permanently in 'off hours' mode -
you can see 'Sync In' is just pulled high so the chip doesn't detect any
incoming sync and is supposed to generate its own, which it doesn't even
though all external clocks are present.

Resistor values are correct as far as measuring them with a DMM goes, the
diodes aren't actually 1N4001s but I can't read the printing on them. Both
transistors are BC548 NPN. The area labelled 'MON' is a 14-way ribbon cable
that goes off to the TV driver board.

I'm feeling pretty dumb at this point. Logic and truth tables are more my
thing, current flow is something I'm learning slowly.

Cheers!

-- 
Adrian/Witchy
Binary Dinosaurs creator/curator
Www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?

Re: Unknown keyboard

[Adam Sampson]

Kyle Owen  writes:

> Does anyone have an idea what this keyboard went to? The "here is" key
> tells me it's likely a terminal, but the hex key pad is throwing me off.
> Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/zTgR2

I'm not sure it helps very much, but here's one in its case:
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52561.0

Looks like it's from the same Key Tronic family as the Sol-20 keyboard,
but that hex keypad with INCR and DECR keys is really unusual... a
really fancy PROM burner, ICE, or protocol analyser?

-- 
Adam Sampson  

Re: Unknown keyboard

[dwight]

I'm not much help but is the uP a x51 or x48 chip?

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Adam Sampson 

Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 6:38:58 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Unknown keyboard

Kyle Owen  writes:

> Does anyone have an idea what this keyboard went to? The "here is" key
> tells me it's likely a terminal, but the hex key pad is throwing me off.
> Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/zTgR2
[http://i.imgur.com/2ImJmUG.jpg?fb]

Unknown keyboard
imgur.com
Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.




I'm not sure it helps very much, but here's one in its case:
  https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52561.0

Looks like it's from the same Key Tronic family as the Sol-20 keyboard,
but that hex keypad with INCR and DECR keys is really unusual... a
really fancy PROM burner, ICE, or protocol analyser?

--
Adam Sampson  
Adam Sampson
offog.org
Date Files Changes; 2017-01-01: wishlist: Add "Business is Fun". 2017-01-01: 
wishlist: Post-Christmas update. Thanks all! 2017-01-01: wishlist: Ordered 
Organissimo album.

Re: Unknown keyboard

[Al Kossow]

neither. GI keyboard encoder and translation prom
pretty common in Keytronics kbs

On 1/7/17 7:14 PM, dwight wrote:
> 
> I'm not much help but is the uP a x51 or x48 chip?
> 
> Dwight
> 
> 
> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Adam Sampson 
> 
> Sent: Saturday, January 7, 2017 6:38:58 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Unknown keyboard
> 
> Kyle Owen  writes:
> 
>> Does anyone have an idea what this keyboard went to? The "here is" key
>> tells me it's likely a terminal, but the hex key pad is throwing me off.
>> Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/zTgR2
> [http://i.imgur.com/2ImJmUG.jpg?fb]
> 
> Unknown keyboard
> imgur.com
> Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure it helps very much, but here's one in its case:
>   https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52561.0
> 
> Looks like it's from the same Key Tronic family as the Sol-20 keyboard,
> but that hex keypad with INCR and DECR keys is really unusual... a
> really fancy PROM burner, ICE, or protocol analyser?
> 
> --
> Adam Sampson  
> Adam Sampson
> offog.org
> Date Files Changes; 2017-01-01: wishlist: Add "Business is Fun". 2017-01-01: 
> wishlist: Post-Christmas update. Thanks all! 2017-01-01: wishlist: Ordered 
> Organissimo album.
> 
> 
> 

Re: cctalk Digest, Vol 31, Issue 7

[mark]

Allison wrote;


I envy the chance to restore a LGP-30 or for that fact play with one.
Many of the things I remember
mid sixties on are now gone or were rare then.  Like small desk sized drum 
computers using transistors or first generation IC (RTL and RDTL).


Rick Bensene wrote:

I so regret not having rescued an old computer that I played with through 
all four years of high school.
The machine was made by Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing (aka 3M 
Corporation). Today, there seems to be no record that 3M ever was in the 
computer business.  But...it was.


I never saw one of those, but the computer center I worked at in college 
dumped a Cincinnati Milachron small business computer system - *not* a 
machine tool controller.  I tried to grab it, but that was not to be.  Same 
thing - there's no record anywhere I could find that they were ever in that 
business.


<...>
along with another old machine that was donated to the school...hardly a 
computer,  more like an accounting machine, made by SCM, called a 7816 
Typetronic.


I actually ended up with a complete SCM 7816 system, including:

- The I/O Printer, which was a hacked SCM electric typewriter, with 
diode-matrix encoding for the keyboard, and relay decoding for the printer; 
it used a row of washers to mechanically ensure that only one key could be 
pressed at once.  It also had a paper tape reader built into the back of the 
carriage, so that some computation could be triggered by the carriage 
position, or performed while the carriage was returning.


- The main 2816 control unit, with a plug-board "output panel" to route data 
between the various peripherals; this also had the massive power supply, 
which used a ferro-resonant transformer to regulate all of the voltages.


- The optional (!) 7816 arithmetic processor, which did bit-serial addition, 
subtraction, or multiplication (no division, but this was simulated by using 
reciprocal multiplication); there were nine 10-digit registers (no other 
working memory), all implemented on a fixed-head disk, plus a buffer 
implemented electronically.  Add time was 17ms, multiplication 700ms; this 
is why the ability to do calculations during the carriage return was 
valuable.


- Two paper tape punches - these were re-branded CDC punches, and were very 
nice units.  40 characters per second, with a built-in automatic 
verification; they could also be used to punch on the side of cards, instead 
of tape.


- Two paper tape readers.  These were built by SCM, and were pretty nice 
too; they were optical, would read at 30 characters per second, and could 
stop from full speed on the next character.


- The custom desks, which included a recess for the I/O Printer to sit in, 
and acted as chasses for the 2816 and 7816.


- All of the manuals and schematics for the whole thing.  Some of the logic 
was made using thick-film modules, but most was on the vintage single-sided 
boards, with obviously hand-drawn traces and jumpers on the component side. 
Somebody has uploaded some of the manuals and 2816 schematics to bitsavers, 
but not the schematics for the 7816.


With the complete schematics, I was eventually able to get the thing to type 
and read and punch tape, but I never got the arithmetic unit working.  That 
machine was *really* dumb...  I carted the whole thing around for about 15 
years, until the new wife decided that she was more important than the space 
it consumed.  That's OK, I guess - I eventually ended up dumping her, too...

~~
Mark Moulding

Re: More circuit help required please

[Tony Duell]

On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Adrian Graham
 wrote:
> Evening all,
>
> I wish I had the ability to take a board layout and turn it into a logically
> laid out schematic but as yet I don't. Video sync on my Executel 3910 is
> still running me round in circles so could one of you fine folk take a look
> at this board layout drawn as best I can:
>
> http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk/STCExecutelSyncCircuit.jpg
>
> ...and let me know what it does please? The chip on the left is a Plessey


I don't believe it's correct as drawn. For one thing you have V333, an NPN
transistor, with the collector grounded (and no -ve supplies on the circuit. For
another, R322 is ridiculously low. And I would expect the anodes of the
3 diodes on the RGB outputs to go somewhere other than a resistor to
ground.


-tony