Re: Fwd: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 03/16/2017 08:19 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> In response to a question of who provided the Lisa FORTRAN, guy who
> insisted that Valtrep was the predecessor of FORTRAN 'course he also
> had OS/2 for the PDP-11, and a PROGRAM that could duplicate alignment
> disks, . . .

Oh jeez, not that again!  I'd hoped that I'd forgotten about him...

Isn't "Valdtrep" a Norwegian march by Johannes Hanssen?

--Chuck

Re: Fwd: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 03/16/2017 06:28 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:

> But was FORTRAN that portable? Other than the IBM 1130 I cannot think
> of a small computer that had ample I/O and memory to run and compile
> FORTRAN. All the other 16 bitters seem to more paper tape I/O. I
> suspect 90% of all university computers ended up as IBM 360 systems.
> A few ended up with the VAX, but who knows what they ran.


Oh, dear--time for a history lesson.

1. Even the IBM 650 had a FORTRAN of sorts
2. One thing that was a sales point for the PDP-8 back in the day was
that for about $5K, you could get a computer that would run 4K FORTRAN:

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dec/pdp8/software/DEC-08-AFCO-D_4K_FORTRAN.pdf

3. FORTRAN was originally released, IIRC for the IBM 709, and was a
card-only system; versions for the 704, and, as previously mentioned,
the 650.   I've used card-only FORTRANs on the 1620 and 1401.

4. The 8080/Z80 had FORTRAN, and I suspect there was also a FORTRAN for
the 8008 (if APL on the 8008 was possible, surely FORTRAN was).

5. I've never heard of a COBOL for the IBM 650.

--Chuck

RE: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of ben via cctalk 
[cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:28 PM
To: computer talk
Subject: Fwd: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

On 3/16/2017 5:16 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
>
> 
> From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Chuck Guzis via 
> cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:08 PM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> Subject: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys
>
> On 03/16/2017 02:54 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
>> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
>>  wrote:
 Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find
 latent bugs.
>>>
>>> Too bad people can't be arsed to port merely to diverse *operating
>>> systems*, let alone architectures.
>>
>> I'm one of the folks that works on LCDproc.  Part of the release
>> testing I do is to compile it on things that aren't just "yet
>> another Linux box".  Of all the use-cases, I'm pretty sure that it's
>> going to work on Debian-flavored things and if that ever breaks, it's
>> going to be the one thing that gets fixed first.
>
> Sadly (or happily--take your choice), architectures aren't nearly as
> diverse as they used to be.  Ones complement, decimal, six-bit characters...
>
> And people who weren't there can't understand why FORTRAN was the
> closest thing to a "portable" language...
>
> __
>
> Not even close to COBOL.  :-)
>
> bill
>

But was FORTRAN that portable?
Other than the IBM 1130 I cannot think of a small computer
that had ample I/O and memory to run and compile FORTRAN. All the
other 16 bitters seem to more paper tape I/O.
I suspect 90% of all university computers ended up as IBM 360
systems. A few ended up with the VAX, but who knows what they
ran.
Ben.
_

U...  I ran Fortran on a TRS-80 with no problems.  I also ran it
on an LSI-11/02 under UCSD-Pascal.  Of course, I ran COBOL on the
same systems.  :-)

As for Universities.  I worked on the academic systems at the Military
Academy at West Point.  While the G (Geography and Computer
Science) Department did have a VAX 11/750 running VMS (and Eunice)
the main academic machine when I got there was a Univac-1100 later
replaced by a bunch of Prime 850's.

bill

Re: Fwd: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Who was it who said, "FORTRAN is more portable than syphilis"


I found it!
I thought Djikstra, but it turned out to be Stan Kelly-Bootle:

"The definition of FORTRAN from the "Devil's DP Dictionary", by
Stan Kelly-Bootle:
"FORTRAN n. [Acronym for FORmula TRANslating system.]
 One of the earliest languages of any real height, level-wise, developed 
out

 of Speedcoding by Backus and Ziller for the IBM/704 in the mid 1950s in
 order to boost the sale of 80-column cards to engineers.
 In spite of regular improvements(including a recent option called
 'STRUCTURE'), it remains popular among engineers but despised elsewhere.
 Many rivals, with the benefit of hindsight, have crossed swords with
 the old workhorse ! Yet FORTRAN gallops on, warts and all, more
 transportable than syphilis, fired by a bottomless pit of working
 subprograms. Lacking the compact power of APL, the intellectually 
satisfying

 elegance of ALGOL 68, the didactic incision of Pascal, and the spurned
 universality of PL/I, FORTRAN survives, nay, FLOURISHES, thanks to a
 superior investmental inertia."

Re: Fwd: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 16 Mar 2017, ben via cctalk wrote:

But was FORTRAN that portable?


Who was it who said, "FORTRAN is more portable than syphilis"


Other than the IBM 1130 I cannot think of a small computer
that had ample I/O and memory to run and compile FORTRAN. All the
other 16 bitters seem to more paper tape I/O.
I suspect 90% of all university computers ended up as IBM 360
systems. A few ended up with the VAX, but who knows what they
ran.


1401
1620 (if you count PDQ)

In 1983, I was called in as a long-term substitute to take over teaching a 
Fortran class using IBM PCs with Microsoft/IBM Fortran.

Fwd: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[ben via cctalk]

On 3/16/2017 5:16 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:



From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:08 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

On 03/16/2017 02:54 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
 wrote:

Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find
latent bugs.


Too bad people can't be arsed to port merely to diverse *operating
systems*, let alone architectures.


I'm one of the folks that works on LCDproc.  Part of the release
testing I do is to compile it on things that aren't just "yet
another Linux box".  Of all the use-cases, I'm pretty sure that it's
going to work on Debian-flavored things and if that ever breaks, it's
going to be the one thing that gets fixed first.


Sadly (or happily--take your choice), architectures aren't nearly as
diverse as they used to be.  Ones complement, decimal, six-bit characters...

And people who weren't there can't understand why FORTRAN was the
closest thing to a "portable" language...

__

Not even close to COBOL.  :-)

bill



But was FORTRAN that portable?
Other than the IBM 1130 I cannot think of a small computer
that had ample I/O and memory to run and compile FORTRAN. All the
other 16 bitters seem to more paper tape I/O.
I suspect 90% of all university computers ended up as IBM 360
systems. A few ended up with the VAX, but who knows what they
ran.
Ben.

Re: AC magnetic field strengths

[js--- via cctalk]

That is in fact how I spot degauss CRT screens, but using a flat wood 
boring bit (metal, obviously, instead of a paint stick) with the magnet 
stuck on the end, spun around with a drill.


- J.

On 3/16/2017 6:37 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

It sounds like one can make a fine tape degausser by connecting

a super magnet to the end of a paint stirring rod and use a drill

to spin it.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Tapley, Mark via 
cctalk
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:51:07 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: AC magnetic field strengths

On Mar 15, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
wrote:


I bought an AlphaLabs GM-2 Gaussmeter for another project, and measured the AC 
magnetic
field strength touching these devices yesterday, since I really didn't have any 
idea beyond
order of magnitude what they might be

Handheld tape head demagnetizer: 40 Gauss
GC Elec 9317 CRT degausing coil: 70 Gauss
Audiolab TD-3 desktop bulk eraser: 1000 Gauss
Inmac 7180 or
RS 44-233A handheld bulk tape erasers: 2000 Gauss



also the DC field of a 1/4" button super magnet like on the
backs of clip on badges is about 3000 Gauss

More context available at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(magnetic_field)

ranging from 50 femtoGauss (what the Gravity Probe B SQUID magnetometers 
measured with several days’ averaging) to 100 MegaGauss (strongest pulsed field 
ever obtained at Sandia Labs).

Interestingly that page claims 12.5 kGauss for a "neodymium–iron–boron (Nd2 
Fe14 B) rare earth magnet” (subscripts on the atomic symbols got converted to plain 
text during cut-n-paste). Guess the badges have weaker versions?

Interesting to compare earth field and the badge fastener field to practical 
exposure limit for pacemakers - only about a factor of 10 at the poles - and to 
loudspeaker coils, which are 5000 times above the recommended pacemaker limit.

Now I know why people with pacemakers don’t like rock music (and name tags)!

:-)

 - Mark

Re: AC magnetic field strengths

[dwight via cctalk]

It sounds like one can make a fine tape degausser by connecting

a super magnet to the end of a paint stirring rod and use a drill

to spin it.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Tapley, Mark via 
cctalk 
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:51:07 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: AC magnetic field strengths

On Mar 15, 2017, at 12:01 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk  
wrote:

> I bought an AlphaLabs GM-2 Gaussmeter for another project, and measured the 
> AC magnetic
> field strength touching these devices yesterday, since I really didn't have 
> any idea beyond
> order of magnitude what they might be
>
> Handheld tape head demagnetizer: 40 Gauss
> GC Elec 9317 CRT degausing coil: 70 Gauss
> Audiolab TD-3 desktop bulk eraser: 1000 Gauss
> Inmac 7180 or
> RS 44-233A handheld bulk tape erasers: 2000 Gauss
>
>
>
> also the DC field of a 1/4" button super magnet like on the
> backs of clip on badges is about 3000 Gauss

More context available at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_(magnetic_field)

ranging from 50 femtoGauss (what the Gravity Probe B SQUID magnetometers 
measured with several days’ averaging) to 100 MegaGauss (strongest pulsed field 
ever obtained at Sandia Labs).

Interestingly that page claims 12.5 kGauss for a "neodymium–iron–boron (Nd2 
Fe14 B) rare earth magnet” (subscripts on the atomic symbols got converted to 
plain text during cut-n-paste). Guess the badges have weaker versions?

Interesting to compare earth field and the badge fastener field to practical 
exposure limit for pacemakers - only about a factor of 10 at the poles - and to 
loudspeaker coils, which are 5000 times above the recommended pacemaker limit.

Now I know why people with pacemakers don’t like rock music (and name tags)!

:-)

- Mark

Re: Univac I memory tank

[dwight via cctalk]

If anyone has a Diehl Combitron or one of the NCR versions. I'd love

to have one. I used one years ago while working for UofMiami.

I used it because it could be programmed and did square root.

I can't pay what one is worth but would still love to have one.

Dwight



From: cctalk  on behalf of Christian Corti via 
cctalk 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:22:27 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Univac I memory tank

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, dwight wrote:
> The Olivetti used a piece of wire for the delay line. I forget what the
> Dielh Combitron used but I know it used a two delay lines. One was for
> registers and the other was for lookup tables that loaded at turn on
> time from a metal tape ( as I recall ).

I can tell you exactly what the Diehl Combitron does; I have a running
bachelor thesis for a student who is developing an emulator and assembler
for that machine, and we have also disassembled (but not yet
understood) the firmware (contained on the metal tape) of the machine.

In fact, it uses two magnetostrictive delay lines, one is called the R
delay line containing 219 bits plus one external in a flip-flop. The other
is called the M delay line with a total of 10889+1 bits. The main clock of
the machine is 1 MHz thus a bit time (called P) is 1 µs.
The R line holds four words à 55 bits, one in the I phase P bits time, one
in the I phase /P bits time, one in the /I phase P bits time and one in
the /I phase /P bits time. The instructions are always fetched from the I
phase /P bits and executed in the /I phase.
The M line holds a total of 99 P words and 99 /P words. The phase between
P and /P changes every M cycle

During the loading phase (e.g. at power on or after a 'e1' order) the R
line is filled with the contents coming from tape and then executed.
Usually the code just transfers the other three words of the R line
somewhere into the M line and restarts the loading phase for the next
block. After loading the last block a fill instruction "jumps" to the
entry point of the firmware. The fill instruction transfers four words
from the M line to the R line.

Christian

RE: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Chuck Guzis via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:08 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

On 03/16/2017 02:54 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
>  wrote:
>>> Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find
>>> latent bugs.
>>
>> Too bad people can't be arsed to port merely to diverse *operating
>> systems*, let alone architectures.
>
> I'm one of the folks that works on LCDproc.  Part of the release
> testing I do is to compile it on things that aren't just "yet
> another Linux box".  Of all the use-cases, I'm pretty sure that it's
> going to work on Debian-flavored things and if that ever breaks, it's
> going to be the one thing that gets fixed first.

Sadly (or happily--take your choice), architectures aren't nearly as
diverse as they used to be.  Ones complement, decimal, six-bit characters...

And people who weren't there can't understand why FORTRAN was the
closest thing to a "portable" language...

__

Not even close to COBOL.  :-)

bill

Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 03/16/2017 02:54 PM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk 
>  wrote:
>>> Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find
>>> latent bugs.
>> 
>> Too bad people can't be arsed to port merely to diverse *operating
>> systems*, let alone architectures.
> 
> I'm one of the folks that works on LCDproc.  Part of the release 
> testing I do is to compile it on things that aren't just "yet
> another Linux box".  Of all the use-cases, I'm pretty sure that it's
> going to work on Debian-flavored things and if that ever breaks, it's
> going to be the one thing that gets fixed first.

Sadly (or happily--take your choice), architectures aren't nearly as
diverse as they used to be.  Ones complement, decimal, six-bit characters...

And people who weren't there can't understand why FORTRAN was the
closest thing to a "portable" language...

--Chuck

Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 5:42 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk
 wrote:
>> Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find latent bugs.
>
> Too bad people can't be arsed to port merely to diverse *operating systems*,
> let alone architectures.

I'm one of the folks that works on LCDproc.  Part of the release
testing I do is to compile it on things that aren't just "yet another
Linux box".  Of all the use-cases, I'm pretty sure that it's going to
work on Debian-flavored things and if that ever breaks, it's going to
be the one thing that gets fixed first.

-ethan

Re: Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> > I politely suggested they should go back and read up on what
> > "undefined" means and then go fix their code...
> 
> Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find latent bugs.

Too bad people can't be arsed to port merely to diverse *operating systems*,
let alone architectures.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- "97% of readers say surveys are rubbish" -- The Register ---

Architectural diversity - was Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2017-03-16 5:09 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote:

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk
 wrote:

On 2017-03-15 5:17 PM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:

Has anybody else noticed that the meaning of "portable code" seems to have
morphed into "can be built on two or three different flavours of Linux"?


1983. All the world's a VAX.


And about 2 years later, I learned C on a VAX...


1993. No sorry, all the world's a SPARC.

2013. Oops, no, all the world's an x86.



From 1997-1999, I worked at Lucent where we ran SPARC, NCR x86 boxes,

DEC Alpha, and a couple of lonely VAXen... One of the interesting
episodes in that transitional time was when some app/utility program
written by the group "worked on the NCR" but "failed on the SPARC",
which was proof to some of them that something was wrong with the
SPARC or at least "better" about the x86... what was really going on
was someone did a strlen() of a pointer which was NULL, and really
didn't understand that when the man page says that behavior is
"undefined", that *both* machines were doing the right thing (they
figured it should act only like strlen() of a pointer to a NULL and
return 0, rather than segfault for attempting to dereference a pointer
to 0x...)

I politely suggested they should go back and read up on what
"undefined" means and then go fix their code...


Porting to diverse architectures is still a great way to find latent bugs.

--Toby



-ethan

Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 6:55 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk
 wrote:
> On 2017-03-15 5:17 PM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:
>> Has anybody else noticed that the meaning of "portable code" seems to have
>> morphed into "can be built on two or three different flavours of Linux"?
>
> 1983. All the world's a VAX.

And about 2 years later, I learned C on a VAX...

> 1993. No sorry, all the world's a SPARC.
>
> 2013. Oops, no, all the world's an x86.

>From 1997-1999, I worked at Lucent where we ran SPARC, NCR x86 boxes,
DEC Alpha, and a couple of lonely VAXen... One of the interesting
episodes in that transitional time was when some app/utility program
written by the group "worked on the NCR" but "failed on the SPARC",
which was proof to some of them that something was wrong with the
SPARC or at least "better" about the x86... what was really going on
was someone did a strlen() of a pointer which was NULL, and really
didn't understand that when the man page says that behavior is
"undefined", that *both* machines were doing the right thing (they
figured it should act only like strlen() of a pointer to a NULL and
return 0, rather than segfault for attempting to dereference a pointer
to 0x...)

I politely suggested they should go back and read up on what
"undefined" means and then go fix their code...

-ethan

Re: I hate the new mail system

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

Jay,

I think that despite the occasional venting of frustration we're mostly just 
trying to add some data points that may help in the migration.

I'm pretty confident that every member of the list appreciates the time, effort 
and whatever else you and certain others have contributed to keep this list 
humming as well as it almost always does; I certainly do.

Thank you!

m


- Original Message - 
From: "Jay West via cctalk" 
To: "'Philipp Hachtmann'" ; "'General Discussion: On-Topic 
and Off-Topic Posts'" 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2017 4:30 PM
Subject: RE: I hate the new mail system


> It was written
> ==
> This header change thing is A BIG MESS! Make it like before, PLEASE!
> It's just annoying, unusable (On my iOS devices, I can't find the original
> sender at all!) and completely unneeded.
> 
> I'm losing fun using the list.
> --
> 
> We've been in the process of moving our datacenter. As a result, changing
> headers on this list has been the last thing on my mind priority-wise.
> 
> Add to that, we still have a few machines to move that will require
> hand-reimplementation instead of just migration, and those have to be
> finished first (paying customers).
> 
> Add to that... when THIS server gets reimplemented, the lists will be
> recombined and the above patch should not be necessary.
> 
> So - given available time and priorities, I'd appreciate it if you could
> suffer the lack of fun for a few weeks or a couple months, whatever it takes
> me to (a) find the time and (b) to get it done. After that, I'm sure the fun
> will return. Thanks for patience and understanding!
> 
> Best,
> 
> J
> 
> 
> 
>

RE: I hate the new mail system

[Jay West via cctalk]

It was written
==
This header change thing is A BIG MESS! Make it like before, PLEASE!
It's just annoying, unusable (On my iOS devices, I can't find the original
sender at all!) and completely unneeded.

I'm losing fun using the list.
--

We've been in the process of moving our datacenter. As a result, changing
headers on this list has been the last thing on my mind priority-wise.

Add to that, we still have a few machines to move that will require
hand-reimplementation instead of just migration, and those have to be
finished first (paying customers).

Add to that... when THIS server gets reimplemented, the lists will be
recombined and the above patch should not be necessary.

So - given available time and priorities, I'd appreciate it if you could
suffer the lack of fun for a few weeks or a couple months, whatever it takes
me to (a) find the time and (b) to get it done. After that, I'm sure the fun
will return. Thanks for patience and understanding!

Best,

J

Android rumors [Was: Pair of Twiggys]

[Pontus Pihlgren via cctalk]

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 10:49:56AM -0600, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:28 AM, geneb via cctalk  
> wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >> I'm waiting for the rise of cell phones to make it
> >>
> >> 202x All the world's an ARM running Android
> >>
> > on Linux. :)
> 
> Kinda... It's a forked Linux kernel today, but BSD / Java userland.
> And there's been persistent rumors of a next gen OS that will replace
> Linux that Google has been working on that's BSD licensed.
> 
> Warner

Plan9 rewritten in Go? that would make my day :)

/P

Re: I hate the new mail system

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

On 03/07/2017 10:57 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, 6 Mar 2017, Mouse wrote:
[...]

And BTW, what you are doing is not clever at all:
  mo...@rodents-montreal.org
SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection:
host MX-4.rodents-montreal.org [98.124.61.89]:
550-.de's whois server, whois.denic.de, is completely broken, handing
550-out no contact information at all when queried for .de domains in
550 the usual way.  Such a domain has no place on a civilized network.

This is just wrong. Of course they hand out contact information!
Sorry, I had to post it here since I cannot contact you directly.


Uh, that's funny! I visited the rodent-server as well... Interesting 
The opposite of a mouse trap!



hachti@donald:~$ telnet  MX-4.rodents-montreal.org 25
Trying 192.139.46.68...
Trying 98.124.61.89...
Connected to MX-4.rodents-montreal.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
helo donald.hachti.de
550-.de's whois server, whois.denic.de, is completely broken, handing
550-out no contact information at all when queried for .de domains in
550 the usual way.  Such a domain has no place on a civilized network.
Connection closed by foreign host.


RUDE!

Re: I hate the new mail system

[Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk]

This header change thing is A BIG MESS! Make it like before, PLEASE!
It's just annoying, unusable (On my iOS devices, I can't find the 
original sender at all!) and completely unneeded.


I'm losing fun using the list.

On 03/04/2017 08:38 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

For now I have set up a procmail rule to strip the "via cctalk" from the

From field because this is ugly and redundant.

I want the rule, too!
Does it restore the old headers as well?!?

And WHY do I now have you personally AND the list in my TO: field after 
simply hitting "reply" in thunderbird?

Re: Pair of Twiggys

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 at 9:28 AM, geneb via cctalk  wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
>
>> I'm waiting for the rise of cell phones to make it
>>
>> 202x All the world's an ARM running Android
>>
> on Linux. :)

Kinda... It's a forked Linux kernel today, but BSD / Java userland.
And there's been persistent rumors of a next gen OS that will replace
Linux that Google has been working on that's BSD licensed.

Warner

Re: Pair of Twiggys

[geneb via cctalk]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:


I'm waiting for the rise of cell phones to make it

202x All the world's an ARM running Android


on Linux. :)

g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Looking for an Intel SRM

[Camiel Vanderhoeven via cctalk]

Here¹s a long shot, about as long as they get.

I received an Intel iPSC/860 supercomputer, but it¹s lacking the Intel SRM
(System Resource Manager), without which the system is a boat anchor.

The SRM is an Intel 386 desktop machine, with a SYP301 motherboard and a
plugin card to connect it to the iPSC/860. There¹s a cable coming from the
iPSC with a 25-pin D connector, which I believe is the connection to the
SRM. It¹s not a regular serial port, but a bidirectional 2.6MByte per
second connection. The interface card likely uses a bunch of Xilinx chips
(the interface cards on the iPSC node boards do). I have not been able to
find a picture of what the box looks like on the outside, so I have no
idea. So, I¹m looking for one of these, preferably one the owner would be
willing to part with :-)

Camiel 

Re: DEC frontpanel switch replica!

[Pete Turnbull via cctalk]

On 16/03/2017 00:30, Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk wrote:

I have announced that there will be a kind of
handle for the boards this time... I went to my neighbour and showed him
some bits and pieces. He has a nice little workshop for concrete artwork
(https://www.fritzundfranz.com/) and spent a lot of time into perfecting
his moulding skills.
I gave him a pdp8/e yellow switch handle with broken axle (usual
problem) to try what can be done.



Here you can see pictures. Even the defects of the original have been
replicated.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sih4qrrw4o3zgbh/AACf7kY7MbGDLt5FYJgfI4kDa?dl=0


These are wonderful.  At €5 - €15 I'm sure I could find a need for a 
few, especially with a metal axle instead of the plastic stubs.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: DEC frontpanel switch replica!

[Rod Smallwood via cctalk]

On 16/03/2017 07:30, SPC via cctalk wrote:

Well... I'm needing some of them for my PDP8/E. So I think this is a good idea.

Regards
Sergio

2017-03-16 1:30 GMT+01:00 Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk :

Hi folks,

this might be quite interesting for the folks that miss front panel switch
handles!

As some of you might know I'm currently working (a bit) on a new batch of
Omnibus USB boards. And I have announced that there will be a kind of handle
for the boards this time... I went to my neighbour and showed him some bits
and pieces. He has a nice little workshop for concrete artwork
(https://www.fritzundfranz.com/) and spent a lot of time into perfecting his
moulding skills.
I gave him a pdp8/e yellow switch handle with broken axle (usual problem) to
try what can be done.
Today I came home and he gave me the piece saying that he was unable to
replicate it. I took it (a bit frustrated) and stated that he has somehow
ruined the surface... Haha! It was the replica!
He told me that this was a first "fast" shot including a "rough"
approximation of the colour.

I was stunned!

Here you can see pictures. Even the defects of the original have been
replicated.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sih4qrrw4o3zgbh/AACf7kY7MbGDLt5FYJgfI4kDa?dl=0

He told me that it was a bit difficult to get the holes at the side right. I
think that it would be no problem if they'd be more shallow or even gone.

* His material is less translucent than the original. Won't probably change.
So a perfectionist could spot the difference.

* He states that he can hit colors even better! (Think of the special
colors!!!)

* The axle stubs would be omitted and made of steel (something I already
plan for repair of that weakest point)

* He is able to produce flawless finish (remember: it's a raw prototype!)

This is not my business. I told him that I'd ask around if there would be
serious interest. He is not in vintage computing and does not work for free.
So one piece would probably cost around 5-15 EUR each, depending on demand,
color etc.


Please give some feedback!


Philipp :-)

Ok having had a chance to think. Here are a few comments.

1.  Rather than single items a full set to suit say a PDP-8/e  might be 
an idea.


2.  This would prevent color mismatches where replaced.

3.  Any chance of say 8/i rocker switches.

4. Whats the production method?

5. Whats the production rate?

6. Batch to batch color matching?


Rod Smallwood

--
There is no wrong or right
Nor black and white.
Just darkness and light

Re: Univac I memory tank

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017, dwight wrote:
The Olivetti used a piece of wire for the delay line. I forget what the 
Dielh Combitron used but I know it used a two delay lines. One was for 
registers and the other was for lookup tables that loaded at turn on 
time from a metal tape ( as I recall ).


I can tell you exactly what the Diehl Combitron does; I have a running 
bachelor thesis for a student who is developing an emulator and assembler 
for that machine, and we have also disassembled (but not yet 
understood) the firmware (contained on the metal tape) of the machine.


In fact, it uses two magnetostrictive delay lines, one is called the R 
delay line containing 219 bits plus one external in a flip-flop. The other 
is called the M delay line with a total of 10889+1 bits. The main clock of 
the machine is 1 MHz thus a bit time (called P) is 1 µs.
The R line holds four words à 55 bits, one in the I phase P bits time, one 
in the I phase /P bits time, one in the /I phase P bits time and one in 
the /I phase /P bits time. The instructions are always fetched from the I 
phase /P bits and executed in the /I phase.
The M line holds a total of 99 P words and 99 /P words. The phase between 
P and /P changes every M cycle


During the loading phase (e.g. at power on or after a 'e1' order) the R 
line is filled with the contents coming from tape and then executed. 
Usually the code just transfers the other three words of the R line 
somewhere into the M line and restarts the loading phase for the next 
block. After loading the last block a fill instruction "jumps" to the 
entry point of the firmware. The fill instruction transfers four words 
from the M line to the R line.


Christian

Re: DEC frontpanel switch replica!

[SPC via cctalk]

Well... I'm needing some of them for my PDP8/E. So I think this is a good idea.

Regards
Sergio

2017-03-16 1:30 GMT+01:00 Philipp Hachtmann via cctalk :
> Hi folks,
>
> this might be quite interesting for the folks that miss front panel switch
> handles!
>
> As some of you might know I'm currently working (a bit) on a new batch of
> Omnibus USB boards. And I have announced that there will be a kind of handle
> for the boards this time... I went to my neighbour and showed him some bits
> and pieces. He has a nice little workshop for concrete artwork
> (https://www.fritzundfranz.com/) and spent a lot of time into perfecting his
> moulding skills.
> I gave him a pdp8/e yellow switch handle with broken axle (usual problem) to
> try what can be done.
> Today I came home and he gave me the piece saying that he was unable to
> replicate it. I took it (a bit frustrated) and stated that he has somehow
> ruined the surface... Haha! It was the replica!
> He told me that this was a first "fast" shot including a "rough"
> approximation of the colour.
>
> I was stunned!
>
> Here you can see pictures. Even the defects of the original have been
> replicated.
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sih4qrrw4o3zgbh/AACf7kY7MbGDLt5FYJgfI4kDa?dl=0
>
> He told me that it was a bit difficult to get the holes at the side right. I
> think that it would be no problem if they'd be more shallow or even gone.
>
> * His material is less translucent than the original. Won't probably change.
> So a perfectionist could spot the difference.
>
> * He states that he can hit colors even better! (Think of the special
> colors!!!)
>
> * The axle stubs would be omitted and made of steel (something I already
> plan for repair of that weakest point)
>
> * He is able to produce flawless finish (remember: it's a raw prototype!)
>
> This is not my business. I told him that I'd ask around if there would be
> serious interest. He is not in vintage computing and does not work for free.
> So one piece would probably cost around 5-15 EUR each, depending on demand,
> color etc.
>
>
> Please give some feedback!
>
>
> Philipp :-)