Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

I missed a Line:

@17772522/100210

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi Paul,

I have changed the values. Tape turns and I get the following after less 
than a second.


ROM ODT> 001000/012700
ROM ODT> 001002/172520
ROM ODT> 001004/012701
ROM ODT> 001006/172522
ROM ODT> 001010/005011
ROM ODT> 001012/105711
ROM ODT> 001014/100376
ROM ODT> 001016/012710
ROM ODT> 001020/001066  001064
ROM ODT> 001022/105711
ROM ODT> 001024/100376
ROM ODT> 001026/012710
ROM ODT> 001030/001106  001104
ROM ODT> 001032/105711
ROM ODT> 001034/100376
ROM ODT> 001036/012710
ROM ODT> 001040/001106  001104
ROM ODT> 001042/105711
ROM ODT> 001044/100376
ROM ODT> 001046/005711
ROM ODT> 001050/100421
ROM ODT> 001052/012704
ROM ODT> 001054/001102
ROM ODT> 001056/005000
ROM ODT> 001060/005007
ROM ODT> 001062/046523
ROM ODT> 001064/140004
ROM ODT> 001066/001074
ROM ODT> 001070/00
ROM ODT> 001072/10
ROM ODT> 001074/001116
ROM ODT> 001076/00
ROM ODT> 001100/16
ROM ODT> 001102/00
ROM ODT> 001104/140001
ROM ODT> 001106/00
ROM ODT> 001110/00
ROM ODT> 001112/001000
ROM ODT> 001114/00
ROM ODT> 001116/00
ROM ODT> 001120/00
ROM ODT>

KDJ11-B Setup mode
Press the RETURN key for Help
Type a command then press the RETURN key: 14

Save boot into the EEPROM

Are you sure ?  0=No,   1=Yes
Type a command then press the RETURN key: 1

Writing the EEPROM  - Please wait

KDJ11-B Setup mode
Press the RETURN key for Help
Type a command then press the RETURN key: 1
Exit

Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test.
Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0


Trying MS0
001116
@

Many Greetings

Ulrich


Am 10.08.2017 um 19:50 schrieb Paul Koning:


On Aug 10, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Ulrich Tagge > wrote:


Hi Paul,

Yes it's an 11/84 so 22Bit.

I corrected 1050 to 100421 and have now these outcome.

ROM ODT> 001000/012700
ROM ODT> 001002/172520
ROM ODT> 001004/012701
ROM ODT> 001006/172522
ROM ODT> 001010/005011
ROM ODT> 001012/105711
ROM ODT> 001014/100376
ROM ODT> 001016/012710
ROM ODT> 001020/001066
ROM ODT> 001022/105711
ROM ODT> 001024/100376
ROM ODT> 001026/012710
ROM ODT> 001030/001106
ROM ODT> 001032/105711
ROM ODT> 001034/100376
ROM ODT> 001036/012710
ROM ODT> 001040/001106
ROM ODT> 001042/105711
ROM ODT> 001044/100376
ROM ODT> 001046/005711
*ROM ODT> 001050/100421*
ROM ODT> 001052/012704
ROM ODT> 001054/001102
ROM ODT> 001056/005000
ROM ODT> 001060/005007
ROM ODT> 001062/046523
ROM ODT> 001064/140004
ROM ODT> 001066/001074
ROM ODT> 001070/00
ROM ODT> 001072/10
ROM ODT> 001074/001116
ROM ODT> 001076/00
ROM ODT> 001100/16
ROM ODT> 001102/00
ROM ODT> 001104/140001
ROM ODT> 001106/00
ROM ODT> 001110/00
ROM ODT> 001112/001000
ROM ODT> 001114/00
ROM ODT> 001116/00
ROM ODT>

Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test.
Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0


Trying MS0
001116
@17772522/103206


That's better.  The documentation you pointed to says that's "special 
condition" and "termination code 3" which is "function reject", for 
example bad function code.


It turns out that's caused by additional errors in the original 
document.  I suspect they changed the source code on page 3-2 but 
didn't bother running it through the assembler again; instead they 
just changed one line and forgot others.  Amazingly sloppy work.


The issue is that the symbols PKT1 and PKT2 don't match the octal 
values shown in the "assembly" listing.  You need location 1020 to be 
001064, and you need 1030 and 1040 to be 001104.


There is also an error in the source code, where it says "NUM+2" but 
the comment says "NUM+20".  The assembly listing says NUM+20 also, so 
I'll assume that is correct.  It's just a register that's passed to 
the boot block code, I don't know if it cares.


paul

Re: Altos 8600 floppy images

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 8/10/2017 12:52 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:

www.ebay.com/itm/263105671822


Thanks for sharing.  Bidder 4079 wasn't me.

I'm curious, how did you get your feedback# set private?  In the 
infinite myriad of crap the epay pulls, I've heard all bidders private, 
so you got no idea who bid on the thing against you, a shill's ideal 
environment, and I've seen auctions marked private. This one doesn't 
seem at this time to be marked such.


But the winning bidder feedback# is "private" which is a new one to me.

I may have to move some dust and find an altos machine now lost in the pile.

thanks
Jim

Re: SAGE Computer Technology

[steve shumaker via cctalk]

On 8/10/2017 2:05 AM, Fritz Chwolka via cctalk wrote:

Hi..

I go some SAGE computers as the owner wants to go back to GB. As he has
collected a lot of documents I was told about the website
www.sageandstride.org. Sadly this side was gone and even my try to get
in contact with the site owner has no success.
I the rebuild this side from the web archive  but some  parts are missed.

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/index.html

The former owner of the sage has his collection at:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/html/ftp_site.html

and even some is at bitsavers.

I would like to get the missing parts maybe someone has saved them:

The pages below
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/html/pcw_cover.html
The files below
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/html/ftp_site.html


So if somebody has more information about please mail me.


Best Regards

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Fritz



Wayback Machine appears to have scraped most of the site contents.  Have 
you checked that out for anything that's missing?



steve

Re: 5251 emulation

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

do you have the software?

On 8/10/17 2:21 PM, Gary McGill via cctalk wrote:
> Anyone interested in Emerald 3x twin emulation?  This is a card for a PC,
> with software and cable to connect from card to 3x twinax cable, to allow a
> PC to emulate a 5251 terminal on a 3x computer.
> 
> Email off list (nwsoftw...@comcast.net)
> 
>   GM
> Gary McGill
> 

5251 emulation

[Gary McGill via cctalk]

Anyone interested in Emerald 3x twin emulation?  This is a card for a PC,
with software and cable to connect from card to 3x twinax cable, to allow a
PC to emulate a 5251 terminal on a 3x computer.

Email off list (nwsoftw...@comcast.net)

  GM
Gary McGill

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 3:15 PM, Ulrich Tagge  wrote:
> 
> I missed a Line:
> 
> @17772522/100210

According to the manual, that says special condition, and termination code 4.  
Which is "recoverable error".  What that means isn't clear from the register.

It appears you need to look at the extended status in the message buffer 
(starting at 1116 in memory); the layout of the message buffer is on page 4-3, 
and the detailed description of the words in there (it actually calls it 
"message packet") start on page 4-8.  Take a look at that documentation and 
what you have in memory.

paul

RE: The Name of the disk (Was: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Tom Gardner via cctalk]

Me too - great rant.
Thanks
Tom

-Original Message-
From: Mark J. Blair [mailto:n...@nf6x.net] 
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:56 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: The Name of the disk (Was: Disk imaging with IMD - question


> On Aug 9, 2017, at 12:08, Fred Cisin via cctalk 
wrote:
> 
> 
[...]
> 


I'm keeping your rant as reference material. Thanks!

The Tandy Portable Disk Drive (TPDD) for the Model 100 series is one of the
odd-ball "rare" configurations: 3.5", 40 track (later, 80 track on the
TPDD2), single sided, two (!) sectors of 1280 bytes each per track. Disk
capacities are nominally called "100k" or "200k". I have not yet tried
examining a TPDD disk on some sort of imaging setup to get insight into its
low-level format, but that's on my growing "one of these days" list. The
drives had internal controllers and brains, and connected to the computer
over an RS-232 interface.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Altos 8600 floppy images

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

www.ebay.com/itm/263105671822

If any of the people who bid against me on these are on the list,
here are the disk images.

http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/bits/Altos/Altos_8000_Family_disk_images/8600_Floppy_Images_Aug2017/

You're welcome.

Re: VCF?

[Chris Osborn via cctalk]

On Aug 7, 2017, at 12:04 PM, dwight via cctalk  wrote:

> I've not seen any photos posted yet.

I've been posting pictures of things I brought home from VCFWest as I tinker 
with them to Twitter. I haven't even been posting my stuff to 
RetroBattlestations! Don't want to stop and organize my thoughts and photos 
since I'm having too much fun!

--
Follow me on twitter: @FozzTexx
Check out my blog: http://insentricity.com

Re: I want these computers from Myrtlebeach, NC - seller won't ship.

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/10/2017 11:16 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

> It's even easier than that. I have used PakMail:
> 
>   https://www.pakmail.com/ 
> 
> a fair amount, and have been very pleased with their service and pricing;
> they generally offer a pick-up service where they pick the item up, pack it,
> and ship it. (I had them do that for a 6' 19" rack, from Arizona.)

Seconded for Pak Mail.  The local one here will even receive LTL
palletized shipments, store them, and then help load them into my truck.
  I've got no quarrel with their freight service pricing--because they
have contracts with shippers, their price with packing is often lower
than the do-it-yourself LTL freight price alone.

I'll add, however, that Pak Mail is a franchise operation, with each
store being run by the franchisee.  So the one on the north side of town
handles smaller shipments only, while the one downtown offers full
freight handling and warehousing services.   Apparently, they cater to
the Amazon sellers as well.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[camiel.vanderhoeven--- via cctalk]

Quoting Al Kossow via cctalk :


On 8/10/17 9:25 AM, camiel.vanderhoeven--- via cctalk wrote:

My workhorse 8" drives are some Ye-Data half-height ones. I still  
have about a dozen of them as NOS.


Glad they work out for you. Fairlight people like them, so I've been  
giving them away to them.

I wont' try to recover anything I care about on those.


They've served me well so far. Is there as particular problem with  
these that I should be aware of?

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi Paul,

Yes it's an 11/84 so 22Bit.

I corrected 1050 to 100421 and have now these outcome.

ROM ODT> 001000/012700
ROM ODT> 001002/172520
ROM ODT> 001004/012701
ROM ODT> 001006/172522
ROM ODT> 001010/005011
ROM ODT> 001012/105711
ROM ODT> 001014/100376
ROM ODT> 001016/012710
ROM ODT> 001020/001066
ROM ODT> 001022/105711
ROM ODT> 001024/100376
ROM ODT> 001026/012710
ROM ODT> 001030/001106
ROM ODT> 001032/105711
ROM ODT> 001034/100376
ROM ODT> 001036/012710
ROM ODT> 001040/001106
ROM ODT> 001042/105711
ROM ODT> 001044/100376
ROM ODT> 001046/005711
*ROM ODT> 001050/100421*
ROM ODT> 001052/012704
ROM ODT> 001054/001102
ROM ODT> 001056/005000
ROM ODT> 001060/005007
ROM ODT> 001062/046523
ROM ODT> 001064/140004
ROM ODT> 001066/001074
ROM ODT> 001070/00
ROM ODT> 001072/10
ROM ODT> 001074/001116
ROM ODT> 001076/00
ROM ODT> 001100/16
ROM ODT> 001102/00
ROM ODT> 001104/140001
ROM ODT> 001106/00
ROM ODT> 001110/00
ROM ODT> 001112/001000
ROM ODT> 001114/00
ROM ODT> 001116/00
ROM ODT>

Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test.
Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0


Trying MS0
001116
@17772522/103206

Many Greetings

Ulrich



Am 10.08.2017 um 18:51 schrieb Paul Koning:

Does the console on your machine do 22 bit addressing?  You may need to ask for 
the CSR by its full 22 bit address, so 17772522.  The number you showed looks 
suspiciously like a powerup selftest memory check pattern.


Please excuse, maybe my understanding is wrong: Does this mean content of 
address 001050 should be 100421 instead of 100422?

Yes, that's what I meant.  Otherwise it branches to the first word of the 
message buffer, and if that's non-zero it wouldn't halt but do something 
different and probably rather strange.

paul

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi Jerry,
I have now also checked the content, and it is exactly what I have saved 
to the ROM.


Many Greetings
Ulrich


Am 10.08.2017 um 15:01 schrieb Jerry Weiss:



The first thing I would do is check the contents of 1000-1116 after 
the halt occurs

against the what you have in the eeprom.
Jerry
j...@ieee.org 

Re: I want these computers from Myrtlebeach, NC - seller won't ship.

[Noel Chiappa via cctalk]

> From: Pete Lancashire

> if the seller wont ship, will s/he take them to a pack and ship outfit ?

It's even easier than that. I have used PakMail:

  https://www.pakmail.com/ 

a fair amount, and have been very pleased with their service and pricing;
they generally offer a pick-up service where they pick the item up, pack it,
and ship it. (I had them do that for a 6' 19" rack, from Arizona.)

Noel

The SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 system + 8406 double-sided diskette subsystem : Restoration

[Dominique Carlier via cctalk]

Hi everybody,

After talking about this subject but in a thread following a sale - 
http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/2017-July/036578.html - I 
decided to start here a thread but this time fully dedicated to the 
restoration of this rare computer, I named the SPERRY UNIVAC UTS 40 and 
its Subsystem 8406 (2 X 8 "DSDD).

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/1.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/2.jpg
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/3.jpg

I take the opportunity to show you the 4 motherboards of that beast in 
details (hi-res)

http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/4boards_presentation.jpg

The CPU board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/cpu_board.jpg

The communication board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/communication_board.jpg

A memory extension board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/memory_extension_board.jpg

And a - I don't know exactly - board
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/unknown_board.jpg
(Any information ?)

In the other thread some topics were discussed, I will copy some part 
here in the idea of grouping these information.


This machine has an historical importance for me. I have an 
unforgettable memory of the data center in which my father worked. He 
sometimes took me with him in the early evening to start some procedures 
to be done during the night (process, tape backup, printing), my father 
worked on a UNIVAC 9200 II and then on a SPERRY UNIVAC 90/30. I remember 
the look of this big room in the dark, it was beautiful like a Christmas 
tree ;-) (that's what I was saying when I was five).


Me in 1980 at 6 ... yes, I had hair like the kid in the movie "Shining" ;-)
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/uts40/dce1980.jpg

I even remember the exact configuration of the 90/30 : 3 X disk pack 
drive of 30 MB each, 3 X nine track tape drive Uniservo 10/14, a punch 
card reader/writer, a frightening and noisy drum printer, an indefinable 
number of UTS20D terminals, a beautiful Uniscope 100 that was standing 
next to the control panel on the central console, and a little bit later 
(1983) ... a UTS 40 and its subsystem. All these beautiful machines 
shone in the darkness of this data center during the night, it was 
beautiful, there was also the characteristic smell of hot machines in 
these places, well ventilated but smokers allowed. It is indeed of this 
time that I come to me an attraction for the technology and mainly for 
computers, preferably big, imposing and spectacular.


In 1987, my father acquired a VAX 8350 (3 X CPU - 6 X RA82H - 2 X TU81 
plus - a lot of VT220s and one VT340), progressively they started the 
migration from the 90/30  to the 8350, some part of the 90/30 are been 
progressively decommissioned and I received sometimes some gears. Notes 
that at the age of 14 I had only an Amiga 500 and a Commodore 64, when I 
received the UTS 40 and its subsystem 8406 (with a UTS 20D bonus) in 
1987 from my father's hands, I considered this computer as my first 
"serious" machine. Besides the sentimental value through the paternal 
donation, this machine evoked me the loved mainframes and computer 
terminals from my childhood.


I used this machine from 1988 to 1999 (the date of the breakdown). I 
wanted to give it a major utility in my own "data center" and under CP/M 
I coded in BASIC a program to manage a database, a kind of big 
help-memory-reminder, in which I noted all that passed by my mind, a lot 
of funny stuff, dreams, projects, technical stuff, music annotations, 
poetry... ;-)


Here I was 16 and so happy to have fun with my dear UTS 40 ^_^
http://www.zeltrax.com/classiccmp_forum/1989.jpg

My UTS 40 was ON every day and I used it constantly, the machine seemed 
indestructible however after 20 years of good and loyal services it 
began to show signs of fatigue. I had sometimes an error message during 
the POC TEST at initialization (RAM or ROM error, I can not remember). 
At this time I incriminated my brave cat who was watching me tapping on 
the keyboard and sleeped regularly on the top of the screen that served 
her as heater, thus blocking the normal ventilation of the machine.
Important thing : after a POC test error asimple reset was enough to 
restart the machine.This can be a useful data regarding components that 
were tired at that time. In the case of an eprom that breaks down, the 
change from the operating state to the non-operating state is direct, is 
it not? (i mean, without return possible to an operating state).


Anyway, one day I turned my UTS ON and instead of the POC TEST and the 
short BIP, just a long "BEEEP" and nothing on the screen. As I 
remembered the RAM / ROM issues displayed via the POC TEST, I suspected 
the ROMs on the "program cartridge". In fact I knew a lot less 
electronics compared to today. Fortunately I had printed all of my 
writings with the Manesmann-Tally dot matrix printer that was connected 
to the machine shortly before the failure.

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 1:03 PM, Ulrich Tagge  wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Yes it's an 11/84 so 22Bit.
> 
> I corrected 1050 to 100421 and have now these outcome.
> 
> ROM ODT> 001000/012700
> ROM ODT> 001002/172520
> ROM ODT> 001004/012701
> ROM ODT> 001006/172522
> ROM ODT> 001010/005011
> ROM ODT> 001012/105711
> ROM ODT> 001014/100376
> ROM ODT> 001016/012710
> ROM ODT> 001020/001066
> ROM ODT> 001022/105711
> ROM ODT> 001024/100376
> ROM ODT> 001026/012710
> ROM ODT> 001030/001106
> ROM ODT> 001032/105711
> ROM ODT> 001034/100376
> ROM ODT> 001036/012710
> ROM ODT> 001040/001106
> ROM ODT> 001042/105711
> ROM ODT> 001044/100376
> ROM ODT> 001046/005711
> ROM ODT> 001050/100421
> ROM ODT> 001052/012704
> ROM ODT> 001054/001102
> ROM ODT> 001056/005000
> ROM ODT> 001060/005007
> ROM ODT> 001062/046523
> ROM ODT> 001064/140004
> ROM ODT> 001066/001074
> ROM ODT> 001070/00
> ROM ODT> 001072/10
> ROM ODT> 001074/001116
> ROM ODT> 001076/00
> ROM ODT> 001100/16
> ROM ODT> 001102/00
> ROM ODT> 001104/140001
> ROM ODT> 001106/00
> ROM ODT> 001110/00
> ROM ODT> 001112/001000
> ROM ODT> 001114/00
> ROM ODT> 001116/00
> ROM ODT>
> 
> Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test.
> Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0
> 
> 
> Trying MS0
> 001116
> @17772522/103206

That's better.  The documentation you pointed to says that's "special 
condition" and "termination code 3" which is "function reject", for example bad 
function code.

It turns out that's caused by additional errors in the original document.  I 
suspect they changed the source code on page 3-2 but didn't bother running it 
through the assembler again; instead they just changed one line and forgot 
others.  Amazingly sloppy work.

The issue is that the symbols PKT1 and PKT2 don't match the octal values shown 
in the "assembly" listing.  You need location 1020 to be 001064, and you need 
1030 and 1040 to be 001104.

There is also an error in the source code, where it says "NUM+2" but the 
comment says "NUM+20".  The assembly listing says NUM+20 also, so I'll assume 
that is correct.  It's just a register that's passed to the boot block code, I 
don't know if it cares.

paul

Re: The Name of the disk (Was: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Ali via cctalk]

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 12:08, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:> 
> 
[...]
> 


>I'm keeping your rant as reference >material. Thanks!
I second that! Fred ranting is a good thing ;). Generally there are a number of 
good posts here that go into my archive folder for future reference. I just 
wish I had more time to make use of material. :(

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?55277-Selecting-an-8-quot-floppy-drive

for someone else's opinion of the Qume PsOS

On 8/10/17 9:57 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/10/17 9:25 AM, camiel.vanderhoeven--- via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> My workhorse 8" drives are some Ye-Data half-height ones. I still have about 
>> a dozen of them as NOS.
> 
> Glad they work out for you. Fairlight people like them, so I've been giving 
> them away to them.
> I wont' try to recover anything I care about on those.
> 
> 

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 8/10/17 9:25 AM, camiel.vanderhoeven--- via cctalk wrote:

> My workhorse 8" drives are some Ye-Data half-height ones. I still have about 
> a dozen of them as NOS.

Glad they work out for you. Fairlight people like them, so I've been giving 
them away to them.
I wont' try to recover anything I care about on those.

Re: The Name of the disk (Was: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Mark J. Blair via cctalk]

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 12:08, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
[...]
> 


I'm keeping your rant as reference material. Thanks!

The Tandy Portable Disk Drive (TPDD) for the Model 100 series is one of the 
odd-ball "rare" configurations: 3.5", 40 track (later, 80 track on the TPDD2), 
single sided, two (!) sectors of 1280 bytes each per track. Disk capacities are 
nominally called "100k" or "200k". I have not yet tried examining a TPDD disk 
on some sort of imaging setup to get insight into its low-level format, but 
that's on my growing "one of these days" list. The drives had internal 
controllers and brains, and connected to the computer over an RS-232 interface.

-- 
Mark J. Blair, NF6X 
http://www.nf6x.net/

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Aug 10, 2017, at 12:24 PM, Ulrich Tagge  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Am 10.08.2017 um 17:19 schrieb Paul Koning:
>>> On Aug 9, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Ulrich Tagge via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0
>>> Trying MS0
>>> 001120
>>> @
>> You're getting an I/O error halt.  That case is supposed to go to the HALT 
>> at 1114, which would mean you'd get a PC of 1116 shown in the message.
>> 
>> However... there's a bug in the bootstrap as documented in the manual.  It 
>> shows BMI HALT at 1050, but the machine code is wrong.  The displacement 
>> from the PC is 1114-1052 = 42, so the assembled instruction would be 100421. 
>>  As written, the code is a BMI MES.
>> 
>> You should examine the TS controller CSR at 172522 (TSSR) to see what error 
>> flags are set.
>> 
>>  paul
>> 
>> 
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Many thanks for you Help!
> Here is the content of 172522.
> 
> Trying MS0
> 001120
> @
> @172522/052525

Does the console on your machine do 22 bit addressing?  You may need to ask for 
the CSR by its full 22 bit address, so 17772522.  The number you showed looks 
suspiciously like a powerup selftest memory check pattern.

> Please excuse, maybe my understanding is wrong: Does this mean content of 
> address 001050 should be 100421 instead of 100422?

Yes, that's what I meant.  Otherwise it branches to the first word of the 
message buffer, and if that's non-zero it wouldn't halt but do something 
different and probably rather strange.

paul

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[camiel.vanderhoeven--- via cctalk]

Quoting Chuck Guzis via cctalk :


On 08/10/2017 01:29 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:


That really depends on the drive. Ok, I think the Qume is "smart"
enough to inhibit any write to side 1 on a SS media. But OTOH, many
other drives are just happy doing anything that you request (e.g. the
BASF drives I also use).


Well, I'll add that the Qume drives aren't my favorites--my workhorse
drives are Siemens FDD-200.  Really well-built units with lots of jumper
options.

The Qume 842s that I use are as backups.   In general, I don't care for
half-height 8" units of any manufacture.  Like the slimline 5.25" and
3.5" drives, they don't seem to hold up as well as their larger relatives.


My workhorse 8" drives are some Ye-Data half-height ones. I still have  
about a dozen of them as NOS. I believe they were made in 1993.


Camiel

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Am 10.08.2017 um 17:19 schrieb Paul Koning:

On Aug 9, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Ulrich Tagge via cctalk  
wrote:


Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0
Trying MS0
001120
@

You're getting an I/O error halt.  That case is supposed to go to the HALT at 
1114, which would mean you'd get a PC of 1116 shown in the message.

However... there's a bug in the bootstrap as documented in the manual.  It 
shows BMI HALT at 1050, but the machine code is wrong.  The displacement from 
the PC is 1114-1052 = 42, so the assembled instruction would be 100421.  As 
written, the code is a BMI MES.

You should examine the TS controller CSR at 172522 (TSSR) to see what error 
flags are set.

paul




Hi Paul,

Many thanks for you Help!
Here is the content of 172522.

Trying MS0
001120
@
@172522/052525

Please excuse, maybe my understanding is wrong: Does this mean content 
of address 001050 should be 100421 instead of 100422?


Many Greetings
Ulrich

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 2:58 PM, Ulrich Tagge via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I have some trouble to get the Bootstrap for an Dilog DU142 (TS11) Controller 
> running on my PDP-11/84.
> The bootstrap on page 3-2 of the following documentation was used: 
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dilog/2120-0090-1_DU142_Jul87.pdf
> That's, what I have saved to the 11/84 PROM:
> 
> Type a command then press the RETURN key: 13
> Edit/create an EEPROM boot
> Type CTRL Z to exit or press the RETURN key for No change
> 1741 Bytes free in the EEPROM
> Device name = MSNew =
> Beginning  address  = 001000New =
> Last byte address   = 001120New =
> Start address   = 001000New =
> Highest Unit number = 1 New =
> Device Description  = TSV05 New =
> Enter ROM ODT
> 
> xx/ = open word location xx if address even, byte if odd
> RETURN  = close location
> . or LF = close location and open next
> -   = close location and open previous
> 
> ROM ODT> 001000/012700
> ROM ODT> 001002/172520
> ROM ODT> 001004/012701
> ROM ODT> 001006/172522
> ROM ODT> 001010/005011
> ROM ODT> 001012/105711
> ROM ODT> 001014/100376
> ROM ODT> 001016/012710
> ROM ODT> 001020/001066
> ROM ODT> 001022/105711
> ROM ODT> 001024/100376
> ROM ODT> 001026/012710
> ROM ODT> 001030/001106
> ROM ODT> 001032/105711
> ROM ODT> 001034/100376
> ROM ODT> 001036/012710
> ROM ODT> 001040/001106
> ROM ODT> 001042/105711
> ROM ODT> 001044/100376
> ROM ODT> 001046/005711
> ROM ODT> 001050/100422
> ROM ODT> 001052/012704
> ROM ODT> 001054/001102
> ROM ODT> 001056/005000
> ROM ODT> 001060/005007
> ROM ODT> 001062/046523
> ROM ODT> 001064/140004
> ROM ODT> 001066/001074
> ROM ODT> 001070/00
> ROM ODT> 001072/10
> ROM ODT> 001074/001116
> ROM ODT> 001076/00
> ROM ODT> 001100/16
> ROM ODT> 001102/00
> ROM ODT> 001104/140001
> ROM ODT> 001106/00
> ROM ODT> 001110/00
> ROM ODT> 001112/001000
> ROM ODT> 001114/00
> ROM ODT> 001116/00
> 
> That's the outcome.
> 
> Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0
> Trying MS0
> 001120
> @

You're getting an I/O error halt.  That case is supposed to go to the HALT at 
1114, which would mean you'd get a PC of 1116 shown in the message.

However... there's a bug in the bootstrap as documented in the manual.  It 
shows BMI HALT at 1050, but the machine code is wrong.  The displacement from 
the PC is 1114-1052 = 42, so the assembled instruction would be 100421.  As 
written, the code is a BMI MES.

You should examine the TS controller CSR at 172522 (TSSR) to see what error 
flags are set.

paul

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 08/10/2017 01:29 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

> That really depends on the drive. Ok, I think the Qume is "smart"
> enough to inhibit any write to side 1 on a SS media. But OTOH, many
> other drives are just happy doing anything that you request (e.g. the
> BASF drives I also use).

Well, I'll add that the Qume drives aren't my favorites--my workhorse
drives are Siemens FDD-200.  Really well-built units with lots of jumper
options.

The Qume 842s that I use are as backups.   In general, I don't care for
half-height 8" units of any manufacture.  Like the slimline 5.25" and
3.5" drives, they don't seem to hold up as well as their larger relatives.

--Chuck

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 8/10/17 1:29 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>> I'll try again--it doesn't matter if the Qume 242 (I've got one)

I have a pretty strong dislike for the Qume drives, the 242 in particular
seems to like to eat the top side of media.

The design of the head actuator makes the heads
really difficult to clean.

I switched back to a SA 851, took off the plastic cover over the heads, and
cleaning the heads is easy.

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Ulrich Tagge via cctalk]

Hi Jerry,

Welcome to the next challenge.

I have found a procedure in the RT-11 Documentation, which automatically 
creates the two tapes.
The output of the msb process is too long, so you can find them here: 
http://www.pdp-11.de/index.php/dec-devices/tsv05ts11-rt-11-and-create-magtape-distribution-set/


The creation has worked like a charm, and without any problem.

When I boot via "b ms0" I get instantly this error, but the tape doesn't 
move noticeable.


001120 is the configured Last byte address. As the code ends by 001116 I 
have set it a little big higher, which was recommended somewhere in the 
11/84 PROM documentation.


Many Greetings
Ulrich
The first thing I would do is check the contents of 1000-1116 after 
the halt occurs

against the what you have in the eeprom.

1120 is not a location I would expect this to halt, so either there is 
a problem in
loading the the eeprom bootstrap or perhaps the first records of the 
tape are being loaded.

Do you see any tape motion?

For RT-11, you need to load device specific files at the beginning of 
the tape.
The tape primary and secondary bootstrap which load the monitor, need 
to be first.
The following (rough) example is for  MS:  @1600BPI and the RT11SJ 
monitor.


   Ini/Que/Vol/File:MBOT16.BOT MS:
   Cop MSBOOT.BOT MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop MDUP.MSMS:/Pos:-1
   Cop SWAP.SYS   MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop RT11SJ.SYS MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop MS.SYS MS:/Pos:-1
 Cop DU.SYS MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop MDUP.SAV   MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop PIP.SAVMS:/Pos:-1
   Cop DUP.SAVMS:/Pos:-1

… + other OS files.


Jerry
j...@ieee.org 

Re: PDP-11/84 Bootstrap for TSV05 (Dilog DU142)

[Jerry Weiss via cctalk]

> On Aug 9, 2017, at 1:58 PM, Ulrich Tagge via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> I have some trouble to get the Bootstrap for an Dilog DU142 (TS11) Controller 
> running on my PDP-11/84.
> The bootstrap on page 3-2 of the following documentation was used: 
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/dilog/2120-0090-1_DU142_Jul87.pdf
> That's, what I have saved to the 11/84 PROM:
> 
> Type a command then press the RETURN key: 13
> Edit/create an EEPROM boot
> Type CTRL Z to exit or press the RETURN key for No change
> 1741 Bytes free in the EEPROM
> Device name = MSNew =
> Beginning  address  = 001000New =
> Last byte address   = 001120New =
> Start address   = 001000New =
> Highest Unit number = 1 New =
> Device Description  = TSV05 New =
> Enter ROM ODT
> 
> xx/ = open word location xx if address even, byte if odd
> RETURN  = close location
> . or LF = close location and open next
> -   = close location and open previous
> 
> ROM ODT> 001000/012700
> ROM ODT> 001002/172520
> ROM ODT> 001004/012701
> ROM ODT> 001006/172522
> ROM ODT> 001010/005011
> ROM ODT> 001012/105711
> ROM ODT> 001014/100376
> ROM ODT> 001016/012710
> ROM ODT> 001020/001066
> ROM ODT> 001022/105711
> ROM ODT> 001024/100376
> ROM ODT> 001026/012710
> ROM ODT> 001030/001106
> ROM ODT> 001032/105711
> ROM ODT> 001034/100376
> ROM ODT> 001036/012710
> ROM ODT> 001040/001106
> ROM ODT> 001042/105711
> ROM ODT> 001044/100376
> ROM ODT> 001046/005711
> ROM ODT> 001050/100422
> ROM ODT> 001052/012704
> ROM ODT> 001054/001102
> ROM ODT> 001056/005000
> ROM ODT> 001060/005007
> ROM ODT> 001062/046523
> ROM ODT> 001064/140004
> ROM ODT> 001066/001074
> ROM ODT> 001070/00
> ROM ODT> 001072/10
> ROM ODT> 001074/001116
> ROM ODT> 001076/00
> ROM ODT> 001100/16
> ROM ODT> 001102/00
> ROM ODT> 001104/140001
> ROM ODT> 001106/00
> ROM ODT> 001110/00
> ROM ODT> 001112/001000
> ROM ODT> 001114/00
> ROM ODT> 001116/00
> 
> That's the outcome.
> 
> Type a command then press the RETURN key: B MS0
> Trying MS0
> 001120
> @
> 
> I have also tried the native TS11 bootstraps, but they are also not working, 
> but this is more likely related to the Dilog.
> Any help would be appreciated, as I can't wait to boot from my fresh build 
> RT-11 Tapes.
> By the way, RT-11 recognized this controller, and is able to read and write 
> to the TS05 Drive.
> 
> .show de:ms
> 
> Device Status CSR Vector(s)
> -- -- --- -
> MS Installed 172522 224 300
> 
> Many Greetings
> Ulrich


The first thing I would do is check the contents of 1000-1116 after the halt 
occurs
against the what you have in the eeprom.

1120 is not a location I would expect this to halt, so either there is a 
problem in
loading the the eeprom bootstrap or perhaps the first records of the tape are 
being loaded.
Do you see any tape motion?

For RT-11, you need to load device specific files at the beginning of the tape.
The tape primary and secondary bootstrap which load the monitor, need to be 
first.
The following (rough) example is for  MS:  @1600BPI and the RT11SJ monitor.

   Ini/Que/Vol/File:MBOT16.BOT MS: 
   Cop MSBOOT.BOT MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop MDUP.MSMS:/Pos:-1
   Cop SWAP.SYS   MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop RT11SJ.SYS MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop MS.SYS MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop DU.SYS MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop MDUP.SAV   MS:/Pos:-1
   Cop PIP.SAVMS:/Pos:-1
   Cop DUP.SAVMS:/Pos:-1

… + other OS files. 


Jerry
j...@ieee.org

SAGE Computer Technology

[Fritz Chwolka via cctalk]

Hi..

I go some SAGE computers as the owner wants to go back to GB. As he has
collected a lot of documents I was told about the website
www.sageandstride.org. Sadly this side was gone and even my try to get
in contact with the site owner has no success.
I the rebuild this side from the web archive  but some  parts are missed.

http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/index.html

The former owner of the sage has his collection at:
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/html/ftp_site.html

and even some is at bitsavers.

I would like to get the missing parts maybe someone has saved them:

The pages below
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/html/pcw_cover.html
The files below
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/saved_mirrors/www.sageandstride.org/html/ftp_site.html


So if somebody has more information about please mail me.


Best Regards

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Fritz

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Richard Cini wrote:

Will do. These 242 drives are NOS and I have several. I'll swap them too.


One more note about QumeTrack 242 drives:
I have the problem that the head load is very sticky (on both of my 
drives). I had to clean and oil it to make it working again. But still, if 
the drive is unused for a couple of days, it needs some tries before it 
will correctly load the heads.


Christian

Re: Disk imaging with IMD - question

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 9 Aug 2017, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I'll try again--it doesn't matter if the Qume 242 (I've got one) is a
DSDD drive if you're using SS media.  Peek inside the drive and you'll
see that there are *two* index sensors--one for single-sided and the
other for double-sided media.  Unless you've got a hole punch handy, you
can't format single-sided media to use both sides.


That really depends on the drive. Ok, I think the Qume is "smart" enough 
to inhibit any write to side 1 on a SS media. But OTOH, many other drives 
are just happy doing anything that you request (e.g. the BASF drives I 
also use).


Oh BTW, speaking of Qume 242: this is the drive I have currently attached 
to my PC (running Linux) and that I use with my TI development board for 
doing flux level images. This drive *can't* handle hard sectored disks!

Unless... (yeah, there's a way) you do the following:
- remove jumper C (HEAD LOAD input)
- install jumper D (IN USE input)
- connect the left pin of jumper C (HEAD LOAD input) to the top pin of
  jumper HA (going to pin 10 of IC 2G)
You need to issue DRIVE SELECT *and* HEAD LOAD *and* IN USE to access the 
drive.


Christian