Classic TMS1000
Hi Who has experience with the TMS1000 in a lot of games. Want to dump ram electronically (by 'test mode' ?) not decapping. Must be some new software out there that can do this now, or am I daydreaming. Thanks Charles Harris
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
On Jul 6, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Sophie Haskins via cctech wrote: > I have a Sony CDU561-SC (it came in a Sun 411 case - not sure if Sun > ever sold them like this or if it was custom) The easiest way to tell is whether the faceplate on the drive is molded in such a way that it creates an integral fit with the box. A "normal" drive in a 411 creates a big gap. ok bear. -- until further notice
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
On 7/6/18 5:17 PM, Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote: > HPDrive will emulate a 9144A. That's good enough for software distributions. I don't think I've ever seen a distribution tape that was 32 track. 9145 added a bunch of fancy buffering HPIB command stuff to get it to stream at 120ips.
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
On 7/6/18 5:22 PM, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> If it hasn't been used recently, it is a certainty the capstan is goo. > > No, I fixed the capstan, and I'm using brand new IOTAMAT tapes still in > the original shrink wrap, but only one drive will even certify tapes and > none of them will write them. 3M 600HC? I saw the same thing on brand new ones of those. The only tape I've ever gotten to mount was a 16track HP labeled tape with ME10 on it. > > They're IOTAMAT. I don't know many of the format details but they come > preformatted from the factory and idiots treat them like QIC (because it's > the same form factor) and demagnetize them. Or, they send you DC600A tapes > "because they look the same." > Some of the details are in the earlier HP manuals pre 914x and in the HP Journal articles on the 9144 and 45. The recording format has redundancy where logical blocks are chunked and written redundantly across physical blocks, then error-corrected on read. Block labeling and soft EOT BOT marks are written full track when the tapes are made. There are no EOT/BOT holes, so inserting a tape in a QIC drive just runs the tape off of the BOT. I hate these things even more than ordinary QIC tapes, and that's saying a lot.
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
> If it hasn't been used recently, it is a certainty the capstan is goo. No, I fixed the capstan, and I'm using brand new IOTAMAT tapes still in the original shrink wrap, but only one drive will even certify tapes and none of them will write them. It just faults, like you said. I have a NOS one in box and I replaced the capstan on that but it works even worse than the beat-up one I restored in the first place. > This is a huge PITA for me at CHM, because HP gave us literally hundreds of > tapes. I also note the extreme lack of 914x tape images anywhere. I haven't > dug into them enough to understand even how to image them. They are block > addressable, but have file marks. This is sort of like QIC tapes, though I > haven't gotten into it far enough to know if the tape mark is an out of band > (sits between a block) or consumes one. They're IOTAMAT. I don't know many of the format details but they come preformatted from the factory and idiots treat them like QIC (because it's the same form factor) and demagnetize them. Or, they send you DC600A tapes "because they look the same." -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Is there another word for synonym? -
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: Digging through some HP docs, CD-ROM boot was only possible on 8.0 and up. Does HPDrive simulate a 9144 or 45? HPDrive will emulate a 9144A. Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
Digging through some HP docs, CD-ROM boot was only possible on 8.0 and up. Does HPDrive simulate a 9144 or 45? On 7/6/18 4:53 PM, Rico Pajarola via cctalk wrote: > Not what you asked for, but I successfully used HPDrive to emulate HP-IB > devices (disk and tapes). I never had any luck with physical tape drives. > > I've only ever seen HP-UX 5.1 on floppies. To install something more > modern, it would be much easier to boot it over the network.
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
If it hasn't been used recently, it is a certainty the capstan is goo. A friend helped me make a new capstan for one of the 9145s that I have, it worked until the logic croaked. I was able to load exactly ONE tape before it died. I'm in the process of buying a refurbished one from 360 Technologies just so I know I have one tested working one. This is a huge PITA for me at CHM, because HP gave us literally hundreds of tapes. I also note the extreme lack of 914x tape images anywhere. I haven't dug into them enough to understand even how to image them. They are block addressable, but have file marks. This is sort of like QIC tapes, though I haven't gotten into it far enough to know if the tape mark is an out of band (sits between a block) or consumes one. When Crisis Computer closed down, I tried reading a few, with pretty poor results. Even after changing the band, most just faulted. Recently I read the HP Journal article on the 9145, and one of the things they did was use special textured belts in their cartridges to make them work at 120ips The Journal also makes it sound like the things were WAY over-engineered. On 7/6/18 4:44 PM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk wrote: > This brings up an interesting question. For those of us with a 9000/300 but > no SCSI (my 350 is strictly HP-IB), I've still had no joy ever getting a > 9144A to work. I'm going to get another tape drive from Stan when I can get > a chance to pick it up, but has anyone booted one of these off floppy? >
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
Not what you asked for, but I successfully used HPDrive to emulate HP-IB devices (disk and tapes). I never had any luck with physical tape drives. I've only ever seen HP-UX 5.1 on floppies. To install something more modern, it would be much easier to boot it over the network. On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 1:44 AM, Cameron Kaiser via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > This brings up an interesting question. For those of us with a 9000/300 but > no SCSI (my 350 is strictly HP-IB), I've still had no joy ever getting a > 9144A to work. I'm going to get another tape drive from Stan when I can get > a chance to pick it up, but has anyone booted one of these off floppy? > > -- > personal: > http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- > Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * > ckai...@floodgap.com > -- Today's forecast is total crap! -- Strong Bad, "Homestar Runner" Menu > #11 -- >
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
This brings up an interesting question. For those of us with a 9000/300 but no SCSI (my 350 is strictly HP-IB), I've still had no joy ever getting a 9144A to work. I'm going to get another tape drive from Stan when I can get a chance to pick it up, but has anyone booted one of these off floppy? -- personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ -- Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com -- Today's forecast is total crap! -- Strong Bad, "Homestar Runner" Menu #11 --
Re: Odd MSV11-J bug (Was: MSV11-J engineering info)
> none of the other values used in that seemed to have a problem; but of > course the program didn't include all 2^16 patterns. I suppose I should > whip up a small program to try other values, and see if anything else > does this... And it does! Quite a few values come back wrong, when ECC is disabled - I'm going to guess about 25% of the time. (Out of 0-020, 4 were wrong.) And it is not board-dependent - two different boards give incorrect read data for the same write values!! And the ones that were OK were OK on both. (And it doesn't appear, from a bit of spot-testing, to be address-dependent.) This is _very_ strange. There's nothing in the manual about 'disabling ECC causes incorrect data to be returned' that I could see. I wonder if the board is storing wrong values a _lot_, and the ECC is normally catching them? (Maybe DEC did it this way to test the ECC hardware all the time, and quickly catch failing ECC? But why doesn't the manual mention that?) One thing I noticed is that while I was doing the 'which bit goes in which chip' stuff, on some of the data lines, there was a lot of grup - some of it fairly long pulses, and some spikes that looked like they might be hazard outputs. I wonder if they are part of the cause? I guess the next step is to set up a loop which stores one of the values which always gives a bad output, and see what the board is actually writing into the chip... Very, very strange! Noel
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
I've successfully booted both my HP 9000/380 and 425e systems from a Toshiba SD-M1711 DVD-ROM drive jumpered to 512 byte/sector mode. In my case I was using CD images provided by David Collins from hpmuseum.net. The boot CD image that I got from him has the same md5sum as the hpux9_install.iso image that I just downloaded from bitsavers. I didn't need to do anything special to burn it or boot from it. It just worked. On 2018-07-06 12:49 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of SCSI CDROMs known to > boot on the 68K 9000s? > I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have started > digging through my > boxes of drives for other models to test.
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
I have a Sony CDU561-SC (it came in a Sun 411 case - not sure if Sun ever sold them like this or if it was custom) that worked just fine to boot an HP 9000/425e (one of the last 68k models, I think?) the other day. Its been pretty handy for various old workstations (except for my SGI Indy who really doesn't seem to like it) Sophie On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 1:16 PM Pete Lancashire via cctalk wrote: > > I've stayed with the Toshibas although I have a Sony that supports the > block size as well. The thing to do is look for external CD-ROMs from like > SUN DEC etc. Or from the SUN 3800 I need to get rid of. > > On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 9:49 AM Al Kossow via cctalk > wrote: > > > Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of SCSI CDROMs known to > > boot on the 68K 9000s? > > I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have > > started digging through my > > boxes of drives for other models to test. > > > > Has anyone come across an archive of SCSI CDROM technical manuals (ie. > > what commands they support)? > > > > I have one manual for the Toshiba ca. 1990 which is up on bitsavers. > > Another one of those things > > I should have been collecting, along with a bunch of different CDROM > > drives while Weird Stuff still existed. > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
I've stayed with the Toshibas although I have a Sony that supports the block size as well. The thing to do is look for external CD-ROMs from like SUN DEC etc. Or from the SUN 3800 I need to get rid of. On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 9:49 AM Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of SCSI CDROMs known to > boot on the 68K 9000s? > I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have > started digging through my > boxes of drives for other models to test. > > Has anyone come across an archive of SCSI CDROM technical manuals (ie. > what commands they support)? > > I have one manual for the Toshiba ca. 1990 which is up on bitsavers. > Another one of those things > I should have been collecting, along with a bunch of different CDROM > drives while Weird Stuff still existed. > > > > > >
Re: Making a bootable LIF CD for the 9000/382
Couple of related things, does anyone have a list of SCSI CDROMs known to boot on the 68K 9000s? I've ordered another A1999 to see if my drive is just bad, and have started digging through my boxes of drives for other models to test. Has anyone come across an archive of SCSI CDROM technical manuals (ie. what commands they support)? I have one manual for the Toshiba ca. 1990 which is up on bitsavers. Another one of those things I should have been collecting, along with a bunch of different CDROM drives while Weird Stuff still existed.
Odd MSV11-J bug (Was: MSV11-J engineering info)
> I first have to tweak my 'scope loop program, to turn on memory mapping So while doing that I just discovered what I _think_ (maybe I'm just not being smart enough to see that it's somehow 'doing the right thing') is the wierdest hardware bug I've ever seen. Plug in an MSV11-J, disable ECC (store an '04' into the CSR), and then store '0172344' into any location. Now read it back! And it's not a bad RAM chip, which turning off the ECC is letting show through, because I tried several boards, and they all do the exact same thing. So either they've all got the same bad chip, or... :-) I found this when my modified 'scope loop program (above) blew out, but none of the other values used in that seemed to have a problem; but of course the program didn't include all 2^16 patterns. I suppose I should whip up a small program to try other values, and see if anything else does this... Noel
Re: MSV11-J engineering info
> From: Glen Slick > What signal were you probing on the M8186 KDF11-A board? BDOUT; I'm triggering on that, and without any prints it wouldn't be easy to find on the MSV11-J. Picking it up off the KDF11-A was the easy way to go. > If you run the XXDP VMJAB0 diagnostic and there are failures, does it > tell you which data bit and/or ECC bit positions have failures? I > suppose it must, otherwise there wouldn't have been much point in the > bit mapping exercise. I dunno; I don't have it. There's also the built-in memory tester in the bootstrap code in the EEPROM on the KDJ11-B, and according to EK-KDJ1B-UG-001 (pp. 4-24, -26) that prints the address and bad data when an error is detected. I have my own little memory diagnostic that I wrote which I tend to use (since I know exactly what it's doing). I'll probably whip up a modified version to check the ECC bits in the MSV11-J (in diagnostic mode, they can be read/written). The MSV11-J does have this feature where you can leave the ECC enabled on the low 32KB (or optionally, the second 32KB) even when ECC is turned off for most of the memory; that's so a diagnostic can live in that memory while testing the rest. I think I'm probably going to ignore that, and plug in a small memory card for the diagnostic to live in, since the MSV11-J can be set to start at any 16KB boundary. That way I can test the entire MSV11-J without any fancy dancing. Noel
Re: MSV11-J engineering info
> From: Tor Arntsen > So, here's how to see the updated page while not logged in: Thanks for posting the 'fix'; the problem, and that workaround, are described on the 'News' sidebar on the Main Page, but of course people going straight to a URL won't see that - and since I'm always logged in, I often forget that un-logged in visitors have this issue. Maybe I should try and edit the CSS or something to include a note with every page? (Any pointers on how to do that gratefully accepted! :-) > Hopefully Tore S. or someone can figure out what's wrong with this > Mediawiki version. Alas, only Tore has the access needed to fix it (and the other current major problem). Noel
Re: MSV11-J engineering info
On 6 July 2018 at 09:48, Tor Arntsen wrote: > On 6 July 2018 at 05:29, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: >> >> >> On 7/5/18 8:20 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: >> >>> I don't see any chip info update at that #Technical_information page. >> >> The gunkies wiki is broken, none of his changes are getting out to the world. > > Yes, that's very strange.. if I'm logged in I see the updated page, > with all the changes. If not, I see an old page from 2016. So, here's how to see the updated page while not logged in: - Go to the page - Click 'history' - Change 'From year (and earlier) 2017 ' to 2019 - Click Go - Click on the newest link in the list Not exactly convenient. Hopefully Tore S. or someone can figure out what's wrong with this Mediawiki version.
Re: MSV11-J engineering info
On 6 July 2018 at 05:29, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > > On 7/5/18 8:20 PM, Glen Slick via cctalk wrote: > >> I don't see any chip info update at that #Technical_information page. > > The gunkies wiki is broken, none of his changes are getting out to the world. Yes, that's very strange.. if I'm logged in I see the updated page, with all the changes. If not, I see an old page from 2016.
