Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
At one time DEC left it up to the branches whether or not to maintain non-DEC parts. The switch would help by disabling the device while running diags and doing other maintenance. Nobody wanted to be liable if a non-DEC board had to be pulled. Paul On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:57 PM, Paul Birkel via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com] > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:36 AM > To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts > Subject: RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45 > > ... > > From the ABLE marketing literature: > > CACHE/ 45 (CACHE BUFFER MEMORY) INSTALLS IN: PDP-11/45, -11/50 and -11/55 > CAPACITY: 2048 byte (1 K word). > ENHANCEMENT FACTOR: Run time reductions to 50% (100% speed improvement) are > achievable. > CACHE PARITY: Automatically goes off-line in event of any data error. > RANGE SELECTION: User may optimize hit ratio by upper/lower limit switch > settings. > SPECIAL FEATURE: Cache/ 45 can be enabled via software or console switches. > > Presumably that's what Mattis has in-hand. > > - > > https://books.google.com/books?id=hYD3sny2NzEC=PA23; > lpg=PA23=ABLE+Comp > uter+technology+ACT+DEC+%22CACHE/45%22=bl= > b15iACJbMd=oLMrJMn2 > qEFmxiKSMIhpLF5qYnk=en=X=2ahUKEwjcyvzi87TcAhVOw1kKHdc5A > 8kQ6AEwAHoE > CAIQAQ#v=onepage=ABLE%20Computer%20technology%20ACT% > 20DEC%20%22CACHE%2F45% > 22=false > > Computerworld, Page 23, July 26, 1976 > > ACT Has PDP-11/45 Buffer > SANTA ANA, Calif. - Able Computer Technology (ACT) has a 2K-byte cache > buffer for use with the Digital Equipment Corp. POP-11/45. > The Cache/45 is contained on a single printed circuit board that plugs into > the > system's chassis. > Buffer control is provided over every core memory address location on the > Unibus. A switch within the memory buffer permits a choice of either > on-line > or off-line operation, the company said. > The buffer costs $7 ,000. ACT is at I 538-E Chestnut St., Santa Ana, Calif. > 92705. > > (Somewhat strange use of the expressions "on-line" and "off-line" > operation, > IMO.) > > I presume that the reason for "single printed circuit board" is that only a > single "normal" slot is occupied. > > paul > >
RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
-Original Message- From: Paul Birkel [mailto:pbir...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:36 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45 ... >From the ABLE marketing literature: CACHE/ 45 (CACHE BUFFER MEMORY) INSTALLS IN: PDP-11/45, -11/50 and -11/55 CAPACITY: 2048 byte (1 K word). ENHANCEMENT FACTOR: Run time reductions to 50% (100% speed improvement) are achievable. CACHE PARITY: Automatically goes off-line in event of any data error. RANGE SELECTION: User may optimize hit ratio by upper/lower limit switch settings. SPECIAL FEATURE: Cache/ 45 can be enabled via software or console switches. Presumably that's what Mattis has in-hand. - https://books.google.com/books?id=hYD3sny2NzEC=PA23=PA23=ABLE+Comp uter+technology+ACT+DEC+%22CACHE/45%22=bl=b15iACJbMd=oLMrJMn2 qEFmxiKSMIhpLF5qYnk=en=X=2ahUKEwjcyvzi87TcAhVOw1kKHdc5A8kQ6AEwAHoE CAIQAQ#v=onepage=ABLE%20Computer%20technology%20ACT%20DEC%20%22CACHE%2F45% 22=false Computerworld, Page 23, July 26, 1976 ACT Has PDP-11/45 Buffer SANTA ANA, Calif. - Able Computer Technology (ACT) has a 2K-byte cache buffer for use with the Digital Equipment Corp. POP-11/45. The Cache/45 is contained on a single printed circuit board that plugs into the system's chassis. Buffer control is provided over every core memory address location on the Unibus. A switch within the memory buffer permits a choice of either on-line or off-line operation, the company said. The buffer costs $7 ,000. ACT is at I 538-E Chestnut St., Santa Ana, Calif. 92705. (Somewhat strange use of the expressions "on-line" and "off-line" operation, IMO.) I presume that the reason for "single printed circuit board" is that only a single "normal" slot is occupied. paul
Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
Message: 1 Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2018 09:22:25 -0400 (EDT) From: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45 Message-ID: <20180722132225.49a0b18c...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu> > From: Paul Birkel > ABLE Computer Technology. Their first product was PN 10001 ... the > A.C.T. Univerter This board is not shown in any of the Able brochures we have: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/able/brochures/ However, Able info is _very_ thin on the ground, now... Noel There was a Univerter and Qniverter (sp) which were used to translate from unibus to qbus.Very useful boards and used one to translate from vax730, vms 4.3 to a qbus expansion box, so I could use an RQDX3 and RD53 as vms boot. Just set up the dipswitches and it works automagically at power on. May have docs somewhere, but not sure where... Chris
Re: Courier Modems (Was: Landfill?
Unsubscribe > On 24 Jul 2018, at 03:31, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: > > And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need > to hear if you qall have any of this. > > > > The scanjet BW is first HP... and scanject 2c is first color > scanner hp > always accepting gifts of these 2. > > IN hp lasers > 2686a first HP laser... then there is a first color laser HP too > ( if you can lift it.) > > Would also suggest saving and we need a clean one hp 500 which was a > 2886a with a bunch of bins was damn expensive so not a lot of them > around compared to 2886a > > Office jet hp officejet ( no suffexhad deskjet printer in it. > was first as I remember > > HP Paint jet first color we need one... uses tracer feed paper. > just found my old sales binder for it with all the samples etc as > issued by hp > > > NEED HP 3000 cx series II series III Model 30 model 40 etc etc etc > > > > Looking forHP VECTRA Has bizzare moue interface etc... > > HP 150 - WORKING OF NOT PLUS - -Looking for any AND ALL hp 150 > PARTS PIECES SALES LITPOSTERS WITH MONARCH BUTTERFLY ETC... > > Looking for some HP calc stuff > Looking for HP 110 portable and portable plus also > NEED VECTRA CS PORTABLE (Bless its wretched soul!) > > > I guess if it says HP would like to hear about it. > > > HEY LOOKING FOR ANY ADVERTISING ITEMS FROM COMPUTER EXCHANGE PHX TOO! > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC ( Retired CEO Computer Exchange Phx AZ) > > > In a message dated 7/21/2018 2:37:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time, > cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > >> > >> It would appear that there ARE people who want Vintage Generic PC Crap. >> Except for the scanners. >> > > The scanners shouldn't have to be regarded as (Vintage) Generic PC Crap. > > For example, I wrote a hack for the (possibly un-aptly named) SANE scanner > software to let it drive a SCSI scanner from VAX/VMS... > > (I wouldn't mind having another SCSI scanner to play with if it wasn't on the > wrong side of the Atlantic.) > > Regards, > Peter Coghlan.
Printerworks?
Has printerworks gone under? Their website is unresponsive. Does anybody have scans of their CX and SX "catalogs"? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if you qall have any of this.
On 7/23/2018 7:58 PM, Ed Sharpe via cctalk wrote: Darn! Alas the freight would be a killer... Ed# Is that you moving the computer to the USA or you moving yourself and all your stuff to OZ. I suspect that freight would still be afordable because it would go ship rather than overnight. Ben.
Re: And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if you qall have any of this.
Darn! Alas the freight would be a killer... Ed# In a message dated 7/23/2018 6:44:44 PM US Mountain Standard Time, davidkcolli...@gmail.com writes: I have a 3000 Series 70... but it’s in Australia! David Collins +61 424 785 131 > On 24 Jul 2018, at 11:32 am, Ed Sharpe via cctalk > wrote: > > > And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if > you all have any of this. > > > > The scanjet BW is first HP... and scanject 2c is first color scanner hp > always accepting gifts of these 2. > > IN hp lasers > 2686a first HP laser... then there is a first color laser HP too ( if you can > lift it.) > > Would also suggest saving and we need a clean one hp 500 which was a 2886a > with a bunch of bins was damn expensive so not a lot of them around compared > to 2886a > > Office jet hp officejet ( no suffex had deskjet printer in it. was first > as I remember > > HP Paint jet first color we need one... uses tracer feed paper. just > found my old sales binder for it with all the samples etc as issued by hp > > > NEED HP 3000 cx series II series III Model 30 model 40 etc etc etc > > > > Looking for HP VECTRA Has bizzare moue interface etc... > > HP 150 - WORKING OF NOT PLUS - -Looking for any AND ALL hp 150 PARTS PIECES > SALES LIT POSTERS WITH MONARCH BUTTERFLY ETC... > > Looking for some HP calc stuff > Looking for HP 110 portable and portable plus also > NEED VECTRA CS PORTABLE (Bless its wretched soul!) > > > I guess if it says HP would like to hear about it. > > > HEY LOOKING FOR ANY ADVERTISING ITEMS FROM COMPUTER EXCHANGE PHX TOO! > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC ( Retired CEO Computer Exchange Phx AZ)
Re: And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if you qall have any of this.
I have a 3000 Series 70... but it’s in Australia! David Collins +61 424 785 131 > On 24 Jul 2018, at 11:32 am, Ed Sharpe via cctalk > wrote: > > > And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need > to hear if you all have any of this. > > > > The scanjet BW is first HP... and scanject 2c is first color > scanner hp > always accepting gifts of these 2. > > IN hp lasers > 2686a first HP laser... then there is a first color laser HP too > ( if you can lift it.) > > Would also suggest saving and we need a clean one hp 500 which was a > 2886a with a bunch of bins was damn expensive so not a lot of them > around compared to 2886a > > Office jet hp officejet ( no suffexhad deskjet printer in it. > was first as I remember > > HP Paint jet first color we need one... uses tracer feed paper. > just found my old sales binder for it with all the samples etc as > issued by hp > > > NEED HP 3000 cx series II series III Model 30 model 40 etc etc etc > > > > Looking forHP VECTRA Has bizzare moue interface etc... > > HP 150 - WORKING OF NOT PLUS - -Looking for any AND ALL hp 150 > PARTS PIECES SALES LITPOSTERS WITH MONARCH BUTTERFLY ETC... > > Looking for some HP calc stuff > Looking for HP 110 portable and portable plus also > NEED VECTRA CS PORTABLE (Bless its wretched soul!) > > > I guess if it says HP would like to hear about it. > > > HEY LOOKING FOR ANY ADVERTISING ITEMS FROM COMPUTER EXCHANGE PHX TOO! > > Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC ( Retired CEO Computer Exchange Phx AZ)
And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if you qall have any of this.
And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if you all have any of this. The scanjet BW is first HP... and scanject 2c is first color scanner hp always accepting gifts of these 2. IN hp lasers 2686a first HP laser... then there is a first color laser HP too ( if you can lift it.) Would also suggest saving and we need a clean one hp 500 which was a 2886a with a bunch of bins was damn expensive so not a lot of them around compared to 2886a Office jet hp officejet ( no suffex had deskjet printer in it. was first as I remember HP Paint jet first color we need one... uses tracer feed paper. just found my old sales binder for it with all the samples etc as issued by hp NEED HP 3000 cx series II series III Model 30 model 40 etc etc etc Looking for HP VECTRA Has bizzare moue interface etc... HP 150 - WORKING OF NOT PLUS - -Looking for any AND ALL hp 150 PARTS PIECES SALES LIT POSTERS WITH MONARCH BUTTERFLY ETC... Looking for some HP calc stuff Looking for HP 110 portable and portable plus also NEED VECTRA CS PORTABLE (Bless its wretched soul!) I guess if it says HP would like to hear about it. HEY LOOKING FOR ANY ADVERTISING ITEMS FROM COMPUTER EXCHANGE PHX TOO! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC ( Retired CEO Computer Exchange Phx AZ)
Re: Courier Modems (Was: Landfill?
And if you collect hp. which... we do of course at SMECC so need to hear if you qall have any of this. The scanjet BW is first HP... and scanject 2c is first color scanner hp always accepting gifts of these 2. IN hp lasers 2686a first HP laser... then there is a first color laser HP too ( if you can lift it.) Would also suggest saving and we need a clean one hp 500 which was a 2886a with a bunch of bins was damn expensive so not a lot of them around compared to 2886a Office jet hp officejet ( no suffex had deskjet printer in it. was first as I remember HP Paint jet first color we need one... uses tracer feed paper. just found my old sales binder for it with all the samples etc as issued by hp NEED HP 3000 cx series II series III Model 30 model 40 etc etc etc Looking for HP VECTRA Has bizzare moue interface etc... HP 150 - WORKING OF NOT PLUS - -Looking for any AND ALL hp 150 PARTS PIECES SALES LIT POSTERS WITH MONARCH BUTTERFLY ETC... Looking for some HP calc stuff Looking for HP 110 portable and portable plus also NEED VECTRA CS PORTABLE (Bless its wretched soul!) I guess if it says HP would like to hear about it. HEY LOOKING FOR ANY ADVERTISING ITEMS FROM COMPUTER EXCHANGE PHX TOO! Ed Sharpe Archivist for SMECC ( Retired CEO Computer Exchange Phx AZ) In a message dated 7/21/2018 2:37:04 AM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: > > It would appear that there ARE people who want Vintage Generic PC Crap. > Except for the scanners. > The scanners shouldn't have to be regarded as (Vintage) Generic PC Crap. For example, I wrote a hack for the (possibly un-aptly named) SANE scanner software to let it drive a SCSI scanner from VAX/VMS... (I wouldn't mind having another SCSI scanner to play with if it wasn't on the wrong side of the Atlantic.) Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: Got a kidney!
That's great news I had myself set up as a doner on anything they wanted. But in February I was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer which disqualify me as an organ donor for obvious reasons. I'm still so amazed how few people our donors here in Oregon you just have the back of your driver's license checked off just simple as that like I said it boggles the mind that's so few people are donors. Again congratulations On Mon, Jul 23, 2018, 6:04 PM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > On 07/22/2018 03:59 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: > > Status update: > > > > They let me go home Thursday but I was too wiped out to post about it. > Things are still pretty fluid, there were some complications, but they’re > being managed. I was on the waitlist for 5 years and 4 months, they listed > me immediately on diagnosis. I got the transplant through OSF, they are one > of the better hospitals here in downstate Illinois. That they have > maintained that status given the state’s extreme distress should say all > that need be said. > > > > All the well-wishes are extremely appreciated. Friday the 13th now has a > whole new meaning. > > > > > All the best! it may be a long haul to get back to full > operation, but having one good kidney is WAY better than zero! > > Jon > >
Re: Got a kidney!
On 07/22/2018 03:59 PM, Daniel Seagraves via cctalk wrote: Status update: They let me go home Thursday but I was too wiped out to post about it. Things are still pretty fluid, there were some complications, but they’re being managed. I was on the waitlist for 5 years and 4 months, they listed me immediately on diagnosis. I got the transplant through OSF, they are one of the better hospitals here in downstate Illinois. That they have maintained that status given the state’s extreme distress should say all that need be said. All the well-wishes are extremely appreciated. Friday the 13th now has a whole new meaning. All the best! it may be a long haul to get back to full operation, but having one good kidney is WAY better than zero! Jon
Re: SDL and SunOS
Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Sat, 21 Jul 2018, carlos_muri...@ieee.org wrote: Under SunOS 4.1.4, the last gcc version that is supported is 3.3.6, but I haven't been able to build it on an IPX; it gets to the point where it Not quite true: # uname -a SunOS azu 4.1.1 10 sun4 unknown unknown SunOS # gcc -v Reading specs from /ibm/usr/lib/gcc/sparc-sun-sunos4.1.1/3.4.6/specs Configured with: ../gcc-3.4.6/configure --prefix=/ibm/usr --program-suffix=-3.4 --with-gnu-ld --with-ld=/ibm/usr/bin/ld --with-gnu-as --with-as=/ibm/usr/bin/as --with-cpu=v7 --disable-nls --with-libiconv-prefix=/ibm/usr --enable-obsolete Thread model: single gcc version 3.4.6 - This is on a SUN 4/260 with 32MB RAM. starts running gengtype and eats all memory available (I have 64MB RAM and have added as much as 1024 swap and it still crashes). So, for the time Yes, there are such issues. The solution is to cross compile it with distcc. Christian I stand corrected, 3.4.6 is indeed that last gcc to support SunOS 4.1.x . I was typing from memory and I tried so many gcc versions that I lost track. All attempts at building gcc versions > 3.2.3 <= 3.4.6 failed because of the memory issues in the gengtype execution. And, the last version not to use the gengtype kludge was 3.2.3; for that version the build process advances further, but it fails when building libstdc++ with xgcc (the file is bitset.cc). Thanks for the suggestion; I'll need to learn how to build the cross-compiler. Do you have any quick advice on how to go about it? carlos.
Re: MVME188 backplane jumpers
Assuming the MVME188 must also work in an backplane that has automatic IACK/BG bypass, you would remove them in all slots that have a board installed. AFAIK nothing gets damaged if you get it wrong, it's just that VME cards further back on the bus won't work properly. On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:55 AM, r.stricklin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Does somebody know how to set the IACK and BG backplane jumpers for the > MVME188 CPU? Remove them all? Leave them in behind the memory and/or cpu > board(s)? Something else? All the documentation I can find are for the > normal VME SBCs, which the 188 isn't. > > Thanks! > > ok > bear. > > -- > until further notice > >
RE: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
> Probably a good idea to use something like RAR with parity. I know I > have > downloaded some multi-segment binaries in RAR format from usenet with > several missing segments and as long as I had the parity file set it > could > successfully recover the entire archive. Parity will only take you so far. It is the same as RAID - you can only tolerate so many disk failures before the whole thing collapses like a house of cards. It works well w/ UseNet because usually the errors are small compared to the data set. However, if you were missing say three RAR files out of six then one PAR file is not going to save you. -Ali
RE: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
Does anybody here have experience with "M-Disc"? It is available up to 100GB BDXL! Drives start at less than $100; media is prices vary - the 100GB starts at about $20 each, but the low capacity versions are bordering on competitive. On Mon, 23 Jul 2018, Ali wrote: I have used M-Disc to archive photos and digital media. So far so good. Problem is you need an M-Disc drive to read it for sure - what does that mean? Well the disc is supposed to be compatible across all DVD readers BUT I have found my older Lite-On IDE drives, which were considered very good back in the day, have had problems reading the DVDs. So your mileage may vary... Thank you. OK, that is alarming. The claim that the discs produced are fully compatible is bogus. That was an essential requirement. Next aspect would be whether they are completely incompatible with EVERYTHING other than M-Disc, or just SOME types of drives, and if so, WHICH ones. From what I've read, the difference in drive between BDXL and BDXL M-Disc is trivial enough that there is no reason that ALL BDXL wouldn't go that way, unless there are patent issues. Also of note the original company has gone bankrupt and their assets bought out. The new owners are continuing to produce M-Disc media. The drives are being made by LG, Pioneer, etc., so that part is OK. The media is being manufactured by Verbatim, Memorex, ? Does the demise of the original company, and hence the licenses, place the ability of Verbatim, Memorex, etc. to make the media at risk? (or only the legal rights to use the logo?) Is the new owner more stable, and/or did Verbatim, Memorex, et al, at least negotiate contract provisions for continuation of license after demise of licensors? Is anybody else doing any significant work towards long-life media? We need ongoing supply, continuation of compatable hardware, and adequate (non-"trade-secret") documentation - without Belafon, we've lost the knowledge, and have to speculate, exactly what his hardware does. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
> On Jul 23, 2018, at 1:20 PM, Carlo Pisani via cctalk > wrote: > > what about DVD-RAM? > are they good about data-reliability? > > cost: > - SCSI DVD-RAM reader/writer, say about 180-240 euro, brand new > - DVD-RAM cartridge (disk + caddy), say about 20 euro per 5 disks, brand new > > how long does a DVD-RAM last? > > 4.5Gbyte per disk is ok for me, I need to archive my source code I realize this is the CLASSICCMP mail list, however, when talking about archiving data today, why would you use classic tech, rather than modern tech? If you’re looking at a SCSI DVD-RAM drive, I don’t care that it’s “new”, I start to wonder, just how *OLD* it is. Sure it might be “New Old Stock (NOS)", but it might also be “Dead on Arrival (DOA)”. If you are trying to archive data on “Classic” hardware, if it has SCSI, then it surely has network, and the ability to move your data to modern hardware. Zane
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
what about DVD-RAM? are they good about data-reliability? cost: - SCSI DVD-RAM reader/writer, say about 180-240 euro, brand new - DVD-RAM cartridge (disk + caddy), say about 20 euro per 5 disks, brand new how long does a DVD-RAM last? 4.5Gbyte per disk is ok for me, I need to archive my source code 2018-07-23 21:57 GMT+02:00 TeoZ via cctalk : > What kind of media is it DVD+R or DVD-R? I think DVD-R (Pioneer) came first > and all the original DVD burners support it and it is the most reliable if > you are making movies for older DVD players. DVD+R is a Sony and Phillips > design and the recording format is different. > > The last generation of DVD recorders is +/- but anything IDE would probably > be DVD-R only and might have issues reading + disks. > > -Original Message- From: Ali via cctalk > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:55 PM > To: 'Fred Cisin' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' > Subject: RE: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM? > > >> Does anybody here have experience with "M-Disc"? >> >> It is available up to 100GB BDXL! >> Drives start at less than $100; media is prices vary - the 100GB starts >> at >> about $20 each, but the low capacity versions are bordering on >> competitive. > > > Fred, > > I have used M-Disc to archive photos and digital media. So far so good. > Problem is you need an M-Disc drive to read it for sure - what does that > mean? Well the disc is supposed to be compatible across all DVD readers BUT > I have found my older Lite-On IDE drives, which were considered very good > back in the day, have had problems reading the DVDs. So your mileage may > vary... > > Also of note the original company has gone bankrupt and their assets bought > out. The new owners are continuing to produce M-Disc media. > > -Ali > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus >
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
What kind of media is it DVD+R or DVD-R? I think DVD-R (Pioneer) came first and all the original DVD burners support it and it is the most reliable if you are making movies for older DVD players. DVD+R is a Sony and Phillips design and the recording format is different. The last generation of DVD recorders is +/- but anything IDE would probably be DVD-R only and might have issues reading + disks. -Original Message- From: Ali via cctalk Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:55 PM To: 'Fred Cisin' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' Subject: RE: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM? Does anybody here have experience with "M-Disc"? It is available up to 100GB BDXL! Drives start at less than $100; media is prices vary - the 100GB starts at about $20 each, but the low capacity versions are bordering on competitive. Fred, I have used M-Disc to archive photos and digital media. So far so good. Problem is you need an M-Disc drive to read it for sure - what does that mean? Well the disc is supposed to be compatible across all DVD readers BUT I have found my older Lite-On IDE drives, which were considered very good back in the day, have had problems reading the DVDs. So your mileage may vary... Also of note the original company has gone bankrupt and their assets bought out. The new owners are continuing to produce M-Disc media. -Ali --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 11:48 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I think that the use of tapes in the 23rd century justifies their > reputation for durability: > > http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Microtape Very impressive, since Microtape was first sold in 1963, as an enhancement over the previous LINCtape (ca. 1961).
Re: Looking for Tektronix 4052 R12 Graphics Enhancement ROM Pack and Tektronix 4014 demo files
Bob, Thanks for the link! I downloaded the files and made my own 4052R12 Graphics Enhancement ROM Pack this weekend - and it works :) Here is a thread where I discuss what this cartridge does: http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?64863-Tektronix-4051-and-4052-R12-Enhanced-Graphics-ROM-Pack Monty On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 11:27 AM, Bob Rosenbloom via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Al has the 4052R12 ROM dumps up on bitsavers. > > Bob > > > On 7/15/2018 12:49 PM, Monty McGraw via cctalk wrote: > >> I have been recovering dozens of old Tektronix 4050 series tapes and found >> one with Fast Graphics software for the 4051. This software program >> jumped >> into 6800 assembly code and retrieved three bytes per vector from a tape >> file. Apparently this tape is a duplicate - and it appears that all the >> files bigger than 1KB have corrupt data. >> >> Apparently from the 4014 programmers guide - they had a set of demo >> picture >> files including a list with R2-D2. >> >> I have found Jos Dreesen's ftp tar file with some 4014 pictures - but I'm >> looking for an R2-D2 picture file that is on the tape I have but corrupt. >> >> I also discovered that Tektronix made a 4052/4054 R12 Graphics Enhancement >> ROM pack which included the Fast Graphics program in ROM. I would love to >> find one of those ROM packs - hint/hint :) >> >> I did recover one of the shorter picture files of Snoopy - but since I >> don't have a 4051, I can't run the Fast Graphics program on my 4052 or >> 4054. One of my buddies threw a C program together to convert the data >> file into Tek 4050 PRINT statements. >> >> I've posted the SNOOPY basic program and screenshots of running it on >> vcfed >> in a new thread: >> http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?64726-Tektronix- >> 4051-4052-4052A-4054-4054A-Program-Archives >> >> I'm also still looking for a 4051/4052 Display Board. Mike Haas posted >> pictures here in Oct 2016 of lots of Tektronix boards including a Display >> Board - but I don't have any direct contact info for him. >> >> Monty >> >> > -- > Vintage computers and electronics > www.dvq.com > www.tekmuseum.com > www.decmuseum.org > >
Re: 68k development, Avocet Development
Greetings to the List - Carlo, I have been using IDE68K out of Norway for about five years and it is excellent: http://home.kpn.nl/pj.fondse/ide68k/ It includes the 68020 instructions such as bit instructions etc - also floating point. I only use the assembler and download S-records to the MVME177-005 boards that I use. I have never found any bugs etc. Best, Jack At 12:46 PM 7/20/2018, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote: hi does anyone happen to use Avocet Development Tools for m68k? how good/bad is it? -- Jack Harper, President Secure Outcomes Inc 2942 Evergreen Parkway, Suite 300 Evergreen, Colorado 80439 USA 303.670.8375 303.670.3750 (fax) http://www.secureoutcomes.net for Product Info.
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/23/2018 09:21 AM, Devin Monnens via cctech wrote: >> I have a lot of backup here stored in CDs, and I have recently bought >> an SCSI DVDRAM unit to create new backups in caddies DVD-RAMs (of >> 4.2Gbyte each) > > what is your experience? > > > I recently disposed of a couple hundred DVD and CD backups I'd made. As > mentioned in a previous comment, it's simply too impractical to store > terabytes of information in 4.7GB segments, plus they take up a LOT of > space. HDDs aren't the most reliable, but this is what I use now for that > reason. I make sure to keep the previous backup in case something happens. > I'll only use optical backups now with the most important data. > > Backblaze has some interesting stats regarding HDD reliability (they are a > data center using thousands of drives running constantly): > https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-stats-for-q1-2018/ > > As noted previously, beyond storage conditions, disc longevity depends on > the types of dyes used in the discs. Gold is supposed to be best. Early on, > they experimented with a wide variety of dye types, and the silver dyes > were least reliable, oxidizing in only about 10 years. > > The thing is, no media format is going to last forever. The only really > reliable way of keeping data around is multiple backups and data migration. > Basically, for your really important stuff, you'll want a couple of > backups, stored in different geographical locations (one local, one on > cloud works, too). You'll want to periodically refresh the backups by > migrating the data onto fresh media. > > In the preservation business, the ideal is to refresh after the cost of > storage media is 1/2 of the initial investment. So, if you paid $1 a GB for > the initial storage media, you'll want to migrate once the new format is > $0.50 a GB, and then again when it is $0.25 and so on. This way, the total > cost is double what you initially invested. > > Of course, while the cost per GB might drop steadily, the total amount on a > particular media format will increase as well, such that the $150 HDD you > bought 5 years ago will have twice the storage for...$150. Definitely open > to other suggestions. I remember the first video disks that after 10 years would develop sparklies (video noise from errors). I rarely use optical disks of any for though I still have CDR as a small but locally handy media. There are many others over the years. I generally keep a few formats as working copies. Any media for that gets refreshed as needed and master copies are abundant as a backup. Its rare they all fail at the same time, least I've never seen that. For example for the CP/M systems 8", 5,25, and 3.5" floppies, refreshed every so often. The exception is the hard sector 5.25 stuff. The pdp11 has RX01/2 and RX33 Both PDP11 and uVAX I have a large number of RD52 (Quantum D540s 31mb) I use as cold swap backup storage media. They are very good as the media is plated nickel-cobalt not the usual brown rust. With more than two decades of doing that none have thrown an error or failed. Of the larger RZ56s are basically used the same way save for SCSI class. For the PC, I use older PC with big disks. They are air-gapped backups. There are several with all the same stuff in case one fails. The routine is to install and run a new data drive for a while then copy the smaller to it and archive the smaller. Over the last few years I've resorted to using large disks in a USB case (so called backup drives) where the case is open-able and I swap drive into them as archive copies with a write, verify, remove, and store cycle. Big drives 300GB to 1TB are dirt cheap and I use them like flash sticks. I also use USB flash as they seem solid though somewhat small if you don't re-write a lot. I have a few that are a mere 128K byte that are over a decade old and still going. However I am wary of widows systems as they tend to write a lot of crap on them besides the actual file. Linux is kinder to them. Allison
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
> > I have a lot of backup here stored in CDs, and I have recently bought > an SCSI DVDRAM unit to create new backups in caddies DVD-RAMs (of > 4.2Gbyte each) what is your experience? I recently disposed of a couple hundred DVD and CD backups I'd made. As mentioned in a previous comment, it's simply too impractical to store terabytes of information in 4.7GB segments, plus they take up a LOT of space. HDDs aren't the most reliable, but this is what I use now for that reason. I make sure to keep the previous backup in case something happens. I'll only use optical backups now with the most important data. Backblaze has some interesting stats regarding HDD reliability (they are a data center using thousands of drives running constantly): https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-stats-for-q1-2018/ As noted previously, beyond storage conditions, disc longevity depends on the types of dyes used in the discs. Gold is supposed to be best. Early on, they experimented with a wide variety of dye types, and the silver dyes were least reliable, oxidizing in only about 10 years. The thing is, no media format is going to last forever. The only really reliable way of keeping data around is multiple backups and data migration. Basically, for your really important stuff, you'll want a couple of backups, stored in different geographical locations (one local, one on cloud works, too). You'll want to periodically refresh the backups by migrating the data onto fresh media. In the preservation business, the ideal is to refresh after the cost of storage media is 1/2 of the initial investment. So, if you paid $1 a GB for the initial storage media, you'll want to migrate once the new format is $0.50 a GB, and then again when it is $0.25 and so on. This way, the total cost is double what you initially invested. Of course, while the cost per GB might drop steadily, the total amount on a particular media format will increase as well, such that the $150 HDD you bought 5 years ago will have twice the storage for...$150. Definitely open to other suggestions.
RE: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
> Does anybody here have experience with "M-Disc"? > > It is available up to 100GB BDXL! > Drives start at less than $100; media is prices vary - the 100GB starts > at > about $20 each, but the low capacity versions are bordering on > competitive. Fred, I have used M-Disc to archive photos and digital media. So far so good. Problem is you need an M-Disc drive to read it for sure - what does that mean? Well the disc is supposed to be compatible across all DVD readers BUT I have found my older Lite-On IDE drives, which were considered very good back in the day, have had problems reading the DVDs. So your mileage may vary... Also of note the original company has gone bankrupt and their assets bought out. The new owners are continuing to produce M-Disc media. -Ali
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > IMIHO, a grievous error by making things too physically small. The > standard SD card is easy enough to pick out in a deep-pile carpet. Not > so, the usual black-colored MicriSD. The dog might well eat it without > even being aware of having done it. > > Are there such things as "microSD" to "standard SD" adapters that allows > for insertion of standard SD into mcroSD slots? > I agree. Most sold today come with a microSD to SD adapter.
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 7:13 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Below is a sampling of disks recorded between 2001 and 2009. It is > likely that the disks of the same type were from the same package > because I don't use many disks. They were stored without much care, > but in a spaces tolerable to humans for reasonable periods. > > Imation CD-Rrecorded 2003/12/29 readable > Imation CD-Rrecorded 2004/01/02 recoverable errors > Imation CR-Rrecorded 2001/12/18 recoverable errors > Imation CD-Rrecorded 2005/07/15 recoverable errors > Imation CD-Rrecorded 2001/12/24 recoverable errors > TDK DVD-R recorded 2006/02/05 recoverable errors > TDK DVD-R recorded 2009/09 unrecoverable errors. The > edges of the disk have a strange faded coloration. > TDK DVD-R recorded 2007/10/07 readable > Memorex CD-Rrecorded 2005unrecoverable errors > > > Probably a good idea to use something like RAR with parity. I know I have downloaded some multi-segment binaries in RAR format from usenet with several missing segments and as long as I had the parity file set it could successfully recover the entire archive.
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/22/2018 09:05 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > Throughout this whole thread, I've been tempted to say that you get better > data fidelity if you take a green magic marker and mark the edges of the > disk... On the other hand, information on MicroSD cards is likely to end up in the sewer system, lost between floorboard cracks or vacuumed or swept into the rubbish bin accidentally. IMIHO, a grievous error by making things too physically small. The standard SD card is easy enough to pick out in a deep-pile carpet. Not so, the usual black-colored MicriSD. The dog might well eat it without even being aware of having done it. Are there such things as "microSD" to "standard SD" adapters that allows for insertion of standard SD into mcroSD slots? --Chuck
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/22/2018 09:05 PM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote: > Throughout this whole thread, I've been tempted to say that you get better > data fidelity if you take a green magic marker and mark the edges of the > disk... > I think that the use of tapes in the 23rd century justifies their reputation for durability: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Microtape --Chuck
Re: how good is the data reliability with BD-R (Blu-Ray)
My BD-R story: For a little bit I was trying to go Blue Ray for backup of conference talks I was recording at the time. I picked up a Samsung BD-R drive and some memorex media. The media for BD-R comes in a High to low and low to high versions. One is dye based not for long term, the other type is long term. The Memorex type I got was the long term type. I carefully made 2 or 3 copies of each set of video files. Each event took 2 to 3 discs (Was recording events live using Blackmagic ATEM system, 5GB per hour is the data rate in 1080i60 h264 encoded.) After about 9 months I went to copy some data back. It was all gone. Everything deteriorated and all the data was unreadable. Before I bought the drive I looked for info on reliability and didn't find any indicators that the media sometimes has severe issues. Since then I kind of swore off optical media. I have some Verbatim discs but I haven't used them yet. I figure they will do better, but still bitter over losing the information from the earier events. I have around 60TB of spinning disks at home, but will be going tape in the future. A lot of my data is conference video and backups of laser show tapes which often are 8 channels of WAV data @ 48khz, so ~3-4GB per 30 minute show tape.
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 08:06:24PM +0200, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote: > thus DDS4, LTO2, DLT: which is the best tape? If you even remotely care about your data, stay far away from DDS. In a previous job we used DDS3 tapes as system backup and restore tapes (since the machines could boot from them). Those were written at most once a month and in 1.5 years there I accumulated a nice stack of 'dead' (hard read errors) tapes. I think none survived more than half a dozen write cycles and they got read not much more. Generally, avoiding any helical scan tape technology (DDS, AIT) is probably a good idea on account of increased head & tape wear this causes. Personally, I have good experience with both DLT and LTO, both are linear scan technologies and IIRC are specified to last at least 1-2 decades given proper storage. Of course, you still want several generations and copies of your backups. Another thing to keep in mind: it is nice if your backup medium lasts decades, but what about the reader for it? Will that be available down the road as well and usable? And, not to forget: what format are your backups written in. Something standard like POSIX tar or some proprietary format used by some commercial software, which might have availability issues in the future. Kind regards, Alex. > > 2018-07-22 18:11 GMT+02:00 Jon Elson via cctalk : > > On 07/22/2018 10:52 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> > >> On 07/22/2018 06:33 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote: > >>> > >>> > On Jul 21, 2018, at 3:25 PM, Carlo Pisani via cctalk > wrote: > > ... > and what about magnetic-tapes? (e.g. DDS4, DLT, LTO2) > > which of them lasts for the most? > >>> > >>> I don't know specifically. I do know that plain old audio tapes may fail > >>> -- I have perhaps 100 cassettes recorded in the 1970s. Most of them are > >>> fine, but essentially all of them that are Fuji brand have failed utterly. > >> > >> Half-inch open-reel tape at 1600 PE density. Should be good for 50 > >> years at least. > >> > >> > > Well, you are one of the experts in this, but it all depends on storage > > conditions. Also, the extended-length tapes were too thin, and suffered > > from creasing and print-through. Badly stored, and you can kiss your data > > goodbye in less than 5 years. > > > > Jon -- "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
DEC uNotes
> #30 "PMI on KDJ11-B and MSV11-J" So it turns out there are _two_ uNote sets, with overlapping numbers! (A fact about which I was previously unaware!) I have two PDF files of the collections; micronoteReprints.pdf (the first set), and oemMicronotes.pdf (the second). Note! There's an index to the first set at the back of the second, and it lists 111; but the ToC for the first one only lists 85! But they are in fact all there (and more; the ones there go up through 115). Noel
Re: PDP-11/84 Qbus slots for memory
Hi Mark, If you want to borrow one to try it, let me know. Paul On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > From: Charles Dickman > > > an 11/84 with the UNIBUS adapter and PMI memory does not have a Qbus. > > ... the KDJ11-B (M8190) bus protocols change when a KTJ11 (UNIBUS > > adapter) is present and so what would be expected to be Qbus isn't. > > Ah, excellent point. > > Looking at the description of the CPU/UBA adapter in the KDJ11-B User > Manual > (EK-KDJ1B-UG-001, pp. 7-6 to 7-9), the answer is not certain; it all > depends > on implementation details on the CPU card which aren't described. > > E.g. the DMA cycle _might_ work, it all depends on what happens at step 8 > when, instead of PBSY being asserted, BSYNC is asserted. The _memory_ will > be > fine (since in an -11/83, this kind of thing is expected)... but the _CPU_, > who knows. > > Interrupt cycles are more problematic; the assertion of the interrupt level > on the BDAL lines (step 1a) will probably pass, but step 6 (assertion of > BSACK) may be an issue, since the device will want to assert BRPLY instead > (BSACK is not used in a QBUS interrupt), and the CPU may not do the right > thing. > > > I think there was a DEC Micronote that explained the protocol > > modifications involved. > > I don't think so; #30 "PMI on KDJ11-B and MSV11-J" describes the _basic_ > PMI, but the interaction with the UBA isn't described there. But the > KDJ11-B User Manual has it in some detail. > > Noel >
Re: PDP-11/84 Qbus slots for memory
> From: Charles Dickman > an 11/84 with the UNIBUS adapter and PMI memory does not have a Qbus. > ... the KDJ11-B (M8190) bus protocols change when a KTJ11 (UNIBUS > adapter) is present and so what would be expected to be Qbus isn't. Ah, excellent point. Looking at the description of the CPU/UBA adapter in the KDJ11-B User Manual (EK-KDJ1B-UG-001, pp. 7-6 to 7-9), the answer is not certain; it all depends on implementation details on the CPU card which aren't described. E.g. the DMA cycle _might_ work, it all depends on what happens at step 8 when, instead of PBSY being asserted, BSYNC is asserted. The _memory_ will be fine (since in an -11/83, this kind of thing is expected)... but the _CPU_, who knows. Interrupt cycles are more problematic; the assertion of the interrupt level on the BDAL lines (step 1a) will probably pass, but step 6 (assertion of BSACK) may be an issue, since the device will want to assert BRPLY instead (BSACK is not used in a QBUS interrupt), and the CPU may not do the right thing. > I think there was a DEC Micronote that explained the protocol > modifications involved. I don't think so; #30 "PMI on KDJ11-B and MSV11-J" describes the _basic_ PMI, but the interaction with the UBA isn't described there. But the KDJ11-B User Manual has it in some detail. Noel
Re: ps/2 Keyboard with 3 button trackball
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 at 13:55, Carlo Pisani wrote: > > VxWorks, customized by Tektronix. Oh boy. Yeah, I see what you mean. That is going to be tricky, then. Is a separate mouse/trackball out of the question? Few PS/2 keyboards are made any more, so you're looking for a subtype of a subtype of older device. It's not impossible, they are out there -- a quick Google using your subject line finds several. But most are USB, probably mislabelled. Same as most "USB to PS/2" convertors are mislabelled "PS/2 to USB convertors". -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
On 07/21/2018 10:14 AM, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote: hi yesterday I was shocked by a couple of videos on Youtube where guys pointed out their negative experiences with CD ROM and DVD RAM as media for their own backup. They complained their data completely lost after 5 years of storage in CD ROMs, pointing out that their CDs were perfectly conserved and kept clean without scratches, but all the data is gone lost since the media is unreadable. I've found in the past that problems with CDs are two-fold: 1) Deterioration of the media itself (which was particularly bad in the early days) 2) Incompatibilities with media and/or the burning process across drives and platforms. The latter cropped up time and again, enough that I decided it was too risky to keep data on CD because I might want to come back to it 5 or 10 (or more) years later and find that no hardware that I had available was capable of reading it. I don't know if DVD is any better; I developed a deep mistrust of any optical media and so I avoid it except for transient stuff where there's no alternative. cheers Jules
Re: ps/2 Keyboard with 3 button trackball
> I don't know TexExpress. What OS does it run under? VxWorks, customized by Tektronix.
Re: ps/2 Keyboard with 3 button trackball
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 at 13:42, Carlo Pisani wrote: > > with software like Tektronix's TekXpress you can't simulate the middle button Please bottom-post on the list if you can. Gmail does it fine. I'm doing it right now. Hit Ctrl-A, trim, paste below. I don't know TexExpress. What OS does it run under? -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: ps/2 Keyboard with 3 button trackball
with software like Tektronix's TekXpress you can't simulate the middle button 2018-07-23 13:00 GMT+02:00 Liam Proven via cctalk : > On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 at 23:12, Carlo Pisani via cctalk > wrote: > >> the software I need to use requires the third button to >> select items > > Have you experimented with the option where pressing both buttons > simulatenously simulates the middle button? A configurable option in > most Windows mouse drivers; default behaviour in Linux, AFAIK. > > -- > Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven > Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com > Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven > UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: ps/2 Keyboard with 3 button trackball
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018 at 23:12, Carlo Pisani via cctalk wrote: > the software I need to use requires the third button to > select items Have you experimented with the option where pressing both buttons simulatenously simulates the middle button? A configurable option in most Windows mouse drivers; default behaviour in Linux, AFAIK. -- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 - ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: how good is the data reliability with CD ROM and DVD RAM?
Grumpy Ol' Fred wrote: On Sun, 22 Jul 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I'd almost forgotten about that old chestnut. Fortunately, Snopes > remembers: > https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/bewaring-of-the-green/ But, what about using a gold USB cable? Only if it is pure gold. None of this plated nonsense. Surely the quality of the power filtration must make a difference. Well, if we are talking audio, maybe there would be a hum if it is not filtered right. However, my one time boss once told me that he had a friend who was an audio nut who swore the sound from his amplifier was better when he swapped the live and neutral wires in the mains plug... And, what about the SOURCE of the power? Wouldn't discs be more reliable if the drive is driven by solar power, rather than nuclear? Surely rotating discs have to perform better when driven by power that comes from a rotating machine, unless someone has been stupid enough to have the discs rotate in the opposite direction to the power generator... Vibrations are an obvious culprit. That can be easily proven by beating on drums on the table where the drive is. The burning should be done in an acoustically sealed environment. Or the drumming should be done in an oxygen free, airtight environment. (There may be a brief period of instability at the beginning but things should quickly settle down.) Light leakage mmust also affect it. All burning should be done in total darkness, although some claim that a #10 safelight should be OK. If you can't see the disc turning, how can you know it has been burnt! :-) Regards, Peter Coghlan.
MVME188 backplane jumpers
Does somebody know how to set the IACK and BG backplane jumpers for the MVME188 CPU? Remove them all? Leave them in behind the memory and/or cpu board(s)? Something else? All the documentation I can find are for the normal VME SBCs, which the 188 isn't. Thanks! ok bear. -- until further notice
RE: CoCo OS/9 was: TRS-80 floppy
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Charles Dickman > via cctalk > Sent: 22 July 2018 23:38 > To: W2HX ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic > Posts > Subject: CoCo OS/9 was: TRS-80 floppy > > So what does it take to get OS/9 running on a Radio Shack Color Computer? > Depends on which OS/9. In recent years it has had a chequered history. But basically a boot disk. > I have a Color Computer 2 (? 64k and non-chicklet keyboard) That’s a bit limiting for OS/9. I think that limits you to OS/9 level 1. > and have always > wanted to get it working with a disk OS. What do I need? I see a reproduction > floppy disk controller on ebay. I would rather skip that and go straight to > some kind of sold state memory. I would get a COCO SDC. http://www.cocowares.com/item.php?nombre=CoCo%20SDC you get two drives from an SD card, and two from DriveWire a host program you run on a PC. > > Suggestions or pointer to active groups? > Very active mail list. https://pairlist5.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/coco Dave > On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 5:31 PM, W2HX via cctalk > wrote: > > Not mine, just thought it might interest some here > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/202376723756 > > -chuck
RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Mattis Lind via cctalk Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:36 AM To: Noel Chiappa; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45 Here is how it is connected: https://i.imgur.com/4TEZoiO.jpg The sandwiched dual boards are i sitting in 27 / 26 AB. The board in 27AB was empty (quick glance), while the board in 26AB has a few TTL chips on it. Slot 26AB is the Unibus A slot, Slot 27 AB should be a terminator on Unibus B. (maybe there were terminating resistors on the second board. Didn't check in detail) Slot 28AB is Unibus B and goes to the DD11-C and the RK11-D backplanes. The hex ABLE/ ACT board sits in slot 21 which is the memory controller board for the MS11. It very much looks like it is a Cache board. But why have some one written "Not used" (Används ej) on it? I'll hope I find the documentation for it! /Mattis - I wonder whether this CACHE/45 can coexist with MS11 memory on the Fastbus itself, or is designed to _replace_ MS11 memory by accelerating access to Unibus-based memory? The available product literature doesn't clarify either way. paul
Re: PDP-11/84 Qbus slots for memory
Would a Quniverter would work? On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 4:01 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 8:47 AM, Mark Matlock via cctech > wrote: > >Now my question is, there are 3 Bus slots in the 11/84 above the > Unibus map board, would it be possible > > to put a dual width Q22 I/O board in the second memory slot (not the PMI > side of the slot) and have it > > able to DMA into the MSV11-JE? > > The answer I have heard here over and over is that an 11/84 with the > UNIBUS adapter and PMI memory does not have a Qbus. As I understand > it, the KDJ11-B (M8190) bus protocols change when a KTJ11 (UNIBUS > adapter) is present and so what would be expected to be Qbus isn't. > > Others can probably explain the details and I think there was a DEC > Micronote that explained the protocol modifications involved. > > > Mark > > -chuck >
Re: SDL and SunOS
On Sat, 21 Jul 2018, carlos_muri...@ieee.org wrote: Under SunOS 4.1.4, the last gcc version that is supported is 3.3.6, but I haven't been able to build it on an IPX; it gets to the point where it Not quite true: # uname -a SunOS azu 4.1.1 10 sun4 unknown unknown SunOS # gcc -v Reading specs from /ibm/usr/lib/gcc/sparc-sun-sunos4.1.1/3.4.6/specs Configured with: ../gcc-3.4.6/configure --prefix=/ibm/usr --program-suffix=-3.4 --with-gnu-ld --with-ld=/ibm/usr/bin/ld --with-gnu-as --with-as=/ibm/usr/bin/as --with-cpu=v7 --disable-nls --with-libiconv-prefix=/ibm/usr --enable-obsolete Thread model: single gcc version 3.4.6 # ld --version GNU ld 2.9.1 Copyright 1997 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This program is free software; you may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public License. This program has absolutely no warranty. Supported emulations: sun4 # as --version GNU assembler 2.9.1 Copyright 1997 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This program is free software; you may redistribute it under the terms of the GNU General Public License. This program has absolutely no warranty. This assembler was configured for a target of `sparc-sun-sunos4.1.1'. This is on a SUN 4/260 with 32MB RAM. starts running gengtype and eats all memory available (I have 64MB RAM and have added as much as 1024 swap and it still crashes). So, for the time Yes, there are such issues. The solution is to cross compile it with distcc. Christian
Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
> > > Studying the MS11 Maint Manual, the MS11 controller has access to the full > address and data from both the CPU (FastBus) and UNIBUS B. (The FastBus > actually has two uni-directional data busses; in and out.) So all that > info, > this hypothetical cache board can get from the slot it is plugged into > (assuming the cache is plugged into one of the controller slots), over its > connector pins. > > The connectors on the back of the card, and two small boards, must be for > listening to UNIBUS A (in configurations in which the two UNIBI aren't > joined > together)? (I'm too lazy to check the slot numbers are see what they > actually > are.) > > And there is indeed a signal which the MS11 uses to tell the CPU it has the > location the CPU is asking for, so it's theoretically possible to build a > cache > card that plugs into a FastBus slot. > Here is how it is connected: https://i.imgur.com/4TEZoiO.jpg The sandwiched dual boards are i sitting in 27 / 26 AB. The board in 27AB was empty (quick glance), while the board in 26AB has a few TTL chips on it. Slot 26AB is the Unibus A slot, Slot 27 AB should be a terminator on Unibus B. (maybe there were terminating resistors on the second board. Didn't check in detail) Slot 28AB is Unibus B and goes to the DD11-C and the RK11-D backplanes. The hex ABLE/ ACT board sits in slot 21 which is the memory controller board for the MS11. It very much looks like it is a Cache board. But why have some one written "Not used" (Används ej) on it? I'll hope I find the documentation for it! /Mattis > > Noel > >
RE: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45
-Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Noel Chiappa via cctalk Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2018 2:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: j...@mercury.lcs.mit.edu Subject: Re: Strange third party board in PDP-11/45 - MS11-B Engineering Drawings About all we're missing are the MS11-A/C data board engineering drawings. (The control board is in the MS11-B prints.) - Note that the schematics clearly show that the memory controller has direct access to both the Fastbus and Unibus B, and thus slot 21 (and 16) is wired for the purpose. So why have OTT cables to both slots 26 /27 AB? Perhaps the narrow cable goes to slot 27 to pick up some additional Unibus B signals, and the wider cable to slot 26 to pick up a larger set of Unibus A signals equivalent to those to which it already has direct access for Unibus B).. Is this the way that those OTT cables are wired Mattis? >From the ABLE marketing literature: CACHE/ 45 (CACHE BUFFER MEMORY) INSTALLS IN: PDP-11/45, -11/50 and -11/55 CAPACITY: 2048 byte (1 K word). ENHANCEMENT FACTOR: Run time reductions to 50% (100% speed improvement) are achievable. CACHE PARITY: Automatically goes off-line in event of any data error. RANGE SELECTION: User may optimize hit ratio by upper/lower limit switch settings. SPECIAL FEATURE: Cache/ 45 can be enabled via software or console switches. Presumably that's what Mattis has in-hand. -
