Re: UUCP on macOS / *BSD

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 7/1/20 9:19 PM, Chris Hanson wrote:
macOS switched to launchd from inetd a very long time ago. If you're 
going to use macOS as a UUCP node you'll want to enable the 
com.apple.uucp service, which will ensure uucico is run for you by the 
system.


I understand what you're saying, and why you're saying it.  But, it's 
not germane to how I'm installing, much less using UUCP on macOS.


1)  I'm sending UUCP traffic /through/ SSH's STDIO.  The calling machine 
initiates an outbound SSH connection to the called machine and launches 
uucico (-r0) inside of said SSH connection.  There is no need for 
anything listening for TCP connections for UUCP.


2)  The macOS system is initiating outbound ""calls to push and / or 
pull files from the neighbor (term?) node.


That's a macOS difference, not a BSD one. I don't *think* you need to 
re-add any setuid or setgid bits, but I could be mistaken.


I most definitely did have to re-add setuid and setgid bits.

It's been a very long time since I've actually used UUCP. If they do 
need to be made setuid or setgid, that sounds like a bug.


Then it may very well be a bug.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that I'm one of the very few people 
trying to use UUCP in contemporary macOS.


In macOS 10.14-10.15 these files are indeed covered by system integrity 
protection, I think that's probably a bug since they need to be edited 
by a sysadmin to use UUCP.


Possibly.

I don't mind needing to /temporarily/ disable SIP.  But I can see how 
the need to do so is probably a bug or design flaw.


PS - Here's the UUCP source for recent macOS: 
https://opensource.apple.com/source/uucp/uucp-12/


ACK



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: UUCP on macOS / *BSD

[Chris Hanson via cctalk]

On Jun 28, 2020, at 6:07 PM, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
>  - uuto / uucp copy files from my non-root / non-(_)uucp user to the UUCP 
> spool.  But the (demand based) ""call (pipe over SSH) is failing.

macOS switched to launchd from inetd a very long time ago. If you're going to 
use macOS as a UUCP node you'll want to enable the com.apple.uucp service, 
which will ensure uucico is run for you by the system.

> I noticed that the following files weren't set UID or GID like they are on 
> Linux.  But I don't know if that's a macOS and / or *BSD difference when 
> compared to Linux.
> 
> /usr/bin/uucp
> /usr/bin/uuname
> /usr/bin/uustat
> /usr/bin/uux
> /usr/sbin/uucico
> /usr/sbin/uuxqt
> 
> Adding the set UID & GID bits allowed things to mostly work.

That's a macOS difference, not a BSD one. I don't *think* you need to re-add 
any setuid or setgid bits, but I could be mistaken. It's been a very long time 
since I've actually used UUCP. If they do need to be made setuid or setgid, 
that sounds like a bug.

> Aside:  Getting the contemporary macOS so that I could edit the 
> (/usr/share/uucp/) sys & port files was a treat.

In macOS 10.14-10.15 these files are indeed covered by system integrity 
protection, I think that's probably a bug since they need to be edited by a 
sysadmin to use UUCP.

  -- Chris

PS - Here's the UUCP source for recent macOS: 
https://opensource.apple.com/source/uucp/uucp-12/ 

Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 7/1/20 12:33 PM, Antonio Carlini via cctalk wrote:

On 01/07/2020 19:26, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:


I submitted the form last night and got the download link about 8am 
Pacific time this morning. The download was 2.66G. I haven't installed 
it yet.


alan

"The software license expires on July 31st of each calendar year and 
must be renewed by re-registering with Unisys and then downloading and 
installing a new package."



Maybe I'll wait a few weeks before requesting a licence?


Got it installed and running on a Windows 10 VM on my MacBook. Pretty 
interesting, but I haven't used MCP since '89 and seldom used the ODT 
(console) on A Series systems when I did, so lots of trying to recall 
how to do stuff.


The disk image and machine config file are stored separately from 
ClearPath MCP Express, so I should be able to just point the new package 
to it when renewal time comes up.


alan

Re: More DECnet/E items

[Tony Nicholson via cctalk]

On Thu, Jul 2, 2020 at 3:52 AM  wrote:

> --
> Nice.  I looked at fixing RT11 RTS applications like MACRO, but that's not
> possible because the RT11 date format stops in the early 21st century (5
> bit
> year field).  Perhaps RT-11 has created a solution, but if so I don't know
> it.
> --
>
> It was my understanding that Jerome Fine did y2k fixes (commercially) for
> rt11 years ago. Is he still around the list?
>
> J
>
>
>
Thanks for your replies Paul and Jay.

I spent the last hour cobbling together a GitHub Repository for RSTS-E
updates.

It's at https://github.com/agn453/RSTS-E

I've included a context diff for the FIT patches I mentioned and an updated
FIT.TSK image built for RSTS/E V10.1 with BASIC-Plus V2.7 (and also the
Mentec RT-11 V5.7 release notes that discuss the time word changes), along
with an Ethernet patch that Paul posted about in 2016 to increase DECnet
performance under SIMH PDP11.

I also found the cover letter for the Mentec RSTS/E V10.1A Year 2000 Update
and included this.  Someone out there may be able to provide further
details.

At some later stage I'll start collecting other RSTS/E software that I wrote
and upload it too.  It's silly to keep this hidden away only to be be lost
forever when I'm gone!

Tony

-- 
Tony Nicholson 

Re: UUCP on macOS / *BSD

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 7/1/20 1:14 PM, Kevin Lee wrote:
Mac OS 10.15 and above had very tight controls on what can run in 
user space. Areas are designated off limits and blocked for security 
reasons.  According to apple. OS X 11 is worse.


I found System Integrity Protection to be annoying.  But I don't think 
it's much of a problem if you're willing to go through the hoops to work 
with it.


It *is* /working/ as desired on macOS Catalina 10.15.15.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

HP 21mx computers For Sale

[Steve Robertson via cctalk]

Hey guys,

I was a regular poster and reader on the list many years ago. During 
that time, I collected a few HP computers and Tape drives and a bunch of 
other "junk".


Well the time has come for me to unload some of the equipment and I'd 
really like it to go to someone that has an appreciation for what is it. 
Currently I have 6 HP 21mx computers and about 30 I/O cards to move. I 
also have 4 7980 (or similar) auto-loading tape drives. They are top 
loading with HPIB interfaces. I also have a HP 9000 800/F20 computer 
that dual boots HPUX 10.20 or HPUX 11.0. from a SCSI array. It has 
ethernet, HPIB, and SCSI cards.


It been a few years since I powered up this stuff. Everything has been 
stored indoors in a clean environment so I expect it to be fuctional. As 
far as I can tell everything is in EXCELLENT condition!


This stuff is located in western North Carolina not far from Asheville. 
Because of the size, this would require local pickup. I do not have the 
means or inclination to ship.


Notice I am not giving them away but will consider reasonable offers on 
any single item or multiple items.


If interested, please contact me directly.

Thanks, Steve Robertson
stee...@ccvn.com

Re:

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

I disagree.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:49 PM Bill Degnan via cctalk 
wrote:

> Totally.
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:05 PM William Pechter via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> >
>

Re:

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

Totally.

On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 5:05 PM William Pechter via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>

Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)

[Antonio Carlini via cctalk]

On 01/07/2020 19:26, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:


I submitted the form last night and got the download link about 8am 
Pacific time this morning. The download was 2.66G. I haven't installed 
it yet.


alan

"The software license expires on July 31st of each calendar year and 
must be renewed by re-registering with Unisys and then downloading and 
installing a new package."



Maybe I'll wait a few weeks before requesting a licence?


Antonio


--
Antonio Carlini
anto...@acarlini.com

Re: UUCP on macOS / *BSD

[Kevin Lee via cctalk]

Mac OS 10.15 and above had very tight controls on what can run in user space. 
Areas are designated off limits and blocked for security reasons.  According to 
apple. OS X 11 is worse. 

K. 

> On 1 Jul 2020, at 20:13, Grant Taylor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 6/28/20 6:48 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
>> Does anyone have any experience with UUCP on macOS or *BSD systems that 
>> would be willing to help me figure something out?
> 
> I ended up getting this to work.
> 
> I don't know if it was a macOSism or a *BSDism, but the root of the problem 
> was crossing between users via setuid / setgid in relation to OpenSSH.
> 
> Two different versions of macOS behaved differently.
> 
> macOS Yosemite 10.10.5 runs the underlying ssh pipe command as the user 
> account that initiates the uucp / uuto / uux.
> 
> macOS Catalina 10.15.15 runs the underlying ssh pipe command as the _uucp 
> user, NOT the account that initiates the uucp / uuto / uux.
> 
> As such, on macOS Yosemite 10.10.5, I have to have the normal user's ssh 
> public key in the authorized_keys file on the remote system.
> 
> Conversely, on macOS Catalina 10.15.15, I have to have the _uucp user's ssh 
> public key in the authorized_keys file on the remote system.
> 
> I don't know why macOS Yosemite 10.10.5 and macOS Catalina 10.15.15 are 
> behaving differently, but they are.
> 
> These inconsistencies made identifying which client ssh config file -- 
> nominally ~/.ssh/config -- was used cumbersome.
> 
> For some unknown reason, I couldn't rely on "~/" or defaults to specify the 
> _uucp user's key (Identity) file or the known_hosts file on macOS Catalina 
> 10.15.15, despite the fact that it was running as the _uucp user.  I ended up 
> having to hard code the paths, as they were defaulting to the original user 
> account that initiated the uucp / uuto / uux.
> 
> I can only surmise that something is fundamentally different between Linux 
> and macOS in how it does things when changing user accounts via setuid & 
> setgid as I did not have any of these problems on multiple Linux machines.  I 
> can further surmise that something is different between macOS Yosemite 
> 10.10.5 and macOS Catalina 10.15.15.  I don't know if this is related to 
> System Integrity Protection or something else.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die

Re: Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 7/1/20 11:09 AM, Stan Sieler via cctalk wrote:

i> From: Alan Perry 

Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get 
https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express
 ?


thanks!

As an old MCP user/developer (although outside the lab), that's really
interesting to me!

Note: you have to register to get the software.  That's apparently
done by clicking on "Downloads".  Then you're presented with a
registration form.  After submitting it, you're told you'll receive an
email.

Don't hold your breath.

It's been 20 minutes, and no email from Unisys :(

(And, no email --> no download)


I submitted the form last night and got the download link about 8am 
Pacific time this morning. The download was 2.66G. I haven't installed 
it yet.


alan

Re: UUCP on macOS / *BSD

[Grant Taylor via cctalk]

On 6/28/20 6:48 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
Does anyone have any experience with UUCP on macOS or *BSD systems that 
would be willing to help me figure something out?


I ended up getting this to work.

I don't know if it was a macOSism or a *BSDism, but the root of the 
problem was crossing between users via setuid / setgid in relation to 
OpenSSH.


Two different versions of macOS behaved differently.

macOS Yosemite 10.10.5 runs the underlying ssh pipe command as the user 
account that initiates the uucp / uuto / uux.


macOS Catalina 10.15.15 runs the underlying ssh pipe command as the 
_uucp user, NOT the account that initiates the uucp / uuto / uux.


As such, on macOS Yosemite 10.10.5, I have to have the normal user's ssh 
public key in the authorized_keys file on the remote system.


Conversely, on macOS Catalina 10.15.15, I have to have the _uucp user's 
ssh public key in the authorized_keys file on the remote system.


I don't know why macOS Yosemite 10.10.5 and macOS Catalina 10.15.15 are 
behaving differently, but they are.


These inconsistencies made identifying which client ssh config file -- 
nominally ~/.ssh/config -- was used cumbersome.


For some unknown reason, I couldn't rely on "~/" or defaults to specify 
the _uucp user's key (Identity) file or the known_hosts file on macOS 
Catalina 10.15.15, despite the fact that it was running as the _uucp 
user.  I ended up having to hard code the paths, as they were defaulting 
to the original user account that initiated the uucp / uuto / uux.


I can only surmise that something is fundamentally different between 
Linux and macOS in how it does things when changing user accounts via 
setuid & setgid as I did not have any of these problems on multiple 
Linux machines.  I can further surmise that something is different 
between macOS Yosemite 10.10.5 and macOS Catalina 10.15.15.  I don't 
know if this is related to System Integrity Protection or something else.




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die





--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Unisys MCP (was: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?)

[Stan Sieler via cctalk]

i> From: Alan Perry 
> Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get 
> https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express
>  ?

thanks!

As an old MCP user/developer (although outside the lab), that's really
interesting to me!

Note: you have to register to get the software.  That's apparently
done by clicking on "Downloads".  Then you're presented with a
registration form.  After submitting it, you're told you'll receive an
email.

Don't hold your breath.

It's been 20 minutes, and no email from Unisys :(

(And, no email --> no download)

Stan

RE: More DECnet/E items

[jwest--- via cctalk]

--
Nice.  I looked at fixing RT11 RTS applications like MACRO, but that's not
possible because the RT11 date format stops in the early 21st century (5 bit
year field).  Perhaps RT-11 has created a solution, but if so I don't know
it.
--

It was my understanding that Jerome Fine did y2k fixes (commercially) for
rt11 years ago. Is he still around the list?

J

Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

[Kevin Monceaux via cctalk]

On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 09:17:47AM -0400, Michael Kerpan via cctalk wrote:

> This thread has been truly enlightening. I had no idea that UniSys had
> hobbyist versions of both their Univac and Burroughs stuff available.

I'm very happy to find that MCP Express is available to hobbyists.  I
currently know very little about Burroughs mainframes.  I've searched
several times in the past for Burroughs emulators.

I found a nice series of blog posts on getting started with MCP Express:

https://Unite.org/wp/getting-started-with-mcp-express/

I read most of the posts last night, and received my MCP Express download
link this morning.  I'll download and install it as soon as I get home this
evening.




-- 

Kevin
http://www.RawFedDogs.net
http://www.Lassie.xyz
http://www.WacoAgilityGroup.org
Bruceville, TX

What's the definition of a legacy system? One that works!
Errare humanum est, ignoscere caninum.

Re: More DECnet/E items

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 3:13 AM, Tony Nicholson  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
> 
> Thanks for posting some Y2K fixes and enhancements for DECnet/E under RSTS/E.
> 
> I've also used the Bitsavers source files for RSTS/E V10.1 to fix a Y2K bug 
> with handling RT-11 Y2k3 dates by the FIT program.

Nice.  I looked at fixing RT11 RTS applications like MACRO, but that's not 
possible because the RT11 date format stops in the early 21st century (5 bit 
year field).  Perhaps RT-11 has created a solution, but if so I don't know it.

> Are you interested in including my patched FIT.TSK for RSTS/E along with your 
> fixes.  I could also provide my modified BASIC-Plus source code to FIT too 
> (but releasing this too may have copyright limitations).

I was thinking of posting the *.diff files, that way if someone has the 
sources, the fixed version can be created.  FWIW, there are in fact V10.1 
sources on the net, on Bitsavers for example.  But I'm as reluctant as you are 
to post full sources myself.

Given that this stuff is in Github, I guess you could put your changes in a 
fork and generate a pull request.  Or send me the files if you don't want to go 
through that.

> Also I remember seeing a Y2K patch kit from Mentec for RSTS/E V10.1 on a TK50 
> tape.  I don't have a copy of it - but I think it also had some additional 
> Y2K fixes.  You wouldn't also have some of these too?

I had not heard of that and I have not seen it, or any Mentec materials for 
that matter.

paul

Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 06:59, Alan Perry via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I doubt it is for hobbyists. I think it is to get people to look at it for 
> the upsell opportunity.

I will take back some of what I just wrote. While I was typing this I received 
the download link email and it included this:

Students, teachers, hobbyists and ClearPath enthusiasts can use it for 
non-production evaluation, personal or educational purposes to explore and 
practice developing and testing ClearPath MCP- based applications. Existing 
ClearPath MCP users can similarly use it to expand their knowledge of the 
ClearPath MCP environment.

Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

I doubt it is for hobbyists. I think it is to get people to look at it for the 
upsell opportunity.

And why are people writing ‘UniSys’? Speaking as someone who was there during 
the merger, it is ‘Unisys’.

alan

> On Jul 1, 2020, at 06:18, Michael Kerpan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> This thread has been truly enlightening. I had no idea that UniSys had
> hobbyist versions of both their Univac and Burroughs stuff available.

I doubt it is for hobbyists. I think it is for the upsell opportunity.

I sent in my 

And why are people writing ‘UniSys’? It is ‘Unisys’.

alan 


> I'll
> have to give them both a try. Is there any software out there for them or
> is the general idea that you're supposed to write your own?
> 
> Mike

Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

[Michael Kerpan via cctalk]

This thread has been truly enlightening. I had no idea that UniSys had
hobbyist versions of both their Univac and Burroughs stuff available. I'll
have to give them both a try. Is there any software out there for them or
is the general idea that you're supposed to write your own?

Mike

Re: More DECnet/E items

[Tony Nicholson via cctalk]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for posting some Y2K fixes and enhancements for DECnet/E under
RSTS/E.

I've also used the Bitsavers source files for RSTS/E V10.1 to fix a Y2K bug
with handling RT-11 Y2k3 dates by the FIT program.

Are you interested in including my patched FIT.TSK for RSTS/E along with
your fixes.  I could also provide my modified BASIC-Plus source code to FIT
too (but releasing this too may have copyright limitations).

Also I remember seeing a Y2K patch kit from Mentec for RSTS/E V10.1 on a
TK50 tape.  I don't have a copy of it - but I think it also had some
additional Y2K fixes.  You wouldn't also have some of these too?

Thanks in advance.

Tony

-- 
Tony Nicholson 

RE: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

[Henk Gooijen via cctalk]

Van: Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
Verzonden: woensdag 1 juli 2020 03:05
Aan: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Onderwerp: Re: UniSys ClearPath OS/2200 Express?

On 6/30/20 6:29 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:
> Why would one get OS/2200 when they can get 
> https://www.unisys.com/offerings/clearpath-forward/clearpath-forward-products/clearpath-mcp-software/clearpath-mcp-express
>  ?
>

Because I very much enjoyed working on Exec-8 on the 1100 lo those
40 years ago.  :-)

bill


I always wanted “something” at home to remind me of my days when working with 
EXEC 37R5 (IIRC, 1991-1999 time frame).
Back then I could read the panic dump listing, a stack of 3 inches thick paper 
only containng 36-bit octal words, and find which program (or user) caused EXEC 
to crash. The joke was “let’s find the 8”.
I did EXEC, Videotex, DMS-1000, and MAPPER. For EXEC and MAPPER I had the 
SPERRY “internals” course.

I really liked MASM and PLUS.
I remember two ERs, ADED$ and SMOQUE$. With the latter I was able to move my 
print out to the top of the queue 
IIRC, with ADED$ you could assign (and lock) a CPU to your program. A silly 
mistake in my MASM program “ate” all three CPUs of the 1100/63. Everything 
froze, and even on the console in the computer room response was extremely 
slow. $! had no immediate effect!

Those were the days!  I think I will try to get 2200 running, but I am afraid I 
forgot most of it (if not all), it’s been over 20 years.

Henk