[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I ha e one for the Honeywell DDP 516 and that class of system on
vintagecomputer.net, extracted from papertape...search "lander" it
should.come up, feed it into simh.
Contact me if you successfully get it to work.
Bill

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 5:36 PM Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> > Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.
>
> At the U of Alberta in the graphics terminal room in the General
> Services Bldg., next door to the I/O room (pick up and drop
> off cards and printouts from the MTS Amdahl), there was a short
> rack with a ~10U PDP of some flavour connected to a rack mount
> GT-40 graphics terminal.  There was a version of lunar lander
> you could download into the PDP from the MTS system and play off-
> line (i.e. free).  You used a light pen to control everything,
> and the goal was to land successfully beside the only McDonalds
> on the moon.
>
> --lyndon
>

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) via cctalk]

> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.

At the U of Alberta in the graphics terminal room in the General
Services Bldg., next door to the I/O room (pick up and drop
off cards and printouts from the MTS Amdahl), there was a short
rack with a ~10U PDP of some flavour connected to a rack mount
GT-40 graphics terminal.  There was a version of lunar lander
you could download into the PDP from the MTS system and play off-
line (i.e. free).  You used a light pen to control everything,
and the goal was to land successfully beside the only McDonalds
on the moon.

--lyndon

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:13 PM John Robertson via cctalk
 wrote:
> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.

I loved that version when it came out when I was a kid.  Sad most of
them disappeared (and were converted into Asteroids machines).  A
buddy of mine has an original with blown-out X-Y drivers.  I keep
offering to help him repair it.  I did recently get a 15" Electrohome
vector display that would work with the original boards (but I don't
_have_ a set of original boards).  What I really need and don't have
is the thrust controller.  Can build one, but it's not at the top of
the list of projects.

I have played it many, many times in emulation (MAME), but I miss the
real vectors and that thrust controller.

There are also several versions for Commodore machines.  Raster and
chunky, but still flyable.

Definitely a popular game framework right along with Star Trek.

-ethan

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Wayne S via cctalk]

First job was programming the “L” series machines. I imagine a Lunar Lander 
game used up a lot of greenbar paper!



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 17, 2024, at 13:37, Mike Stein via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> "Lunar Lander games abound on every platform"
> 
> For sure! I even have a copy on tape somewhere for the Burroughs L
> series machines, but unfortunately I'm not aware of any of those still
> working; there was an L7xxx and also an L5xxx and L9xxx, but AFAIK
> they're display only.
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:07 PM John Robertson via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2024/06/17 12:26 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
>>>   wrote:
 I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.
 
 This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
 should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.
 
 ...
 
 It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):
>>> https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/
>>> 
>>> I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.
>>> 
>>> -ethan
>> 
>> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
>> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.
>> 
>> Some more of the history of the games (from 2009):
>> 
>> technologizer.com
>> 
>> Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>
>> 
>> Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and
>> Pac-Man, the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your
>> lunar module onto the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned
>> computer games of all time. But did you know that game players began
>> touching down on the moon in Lunar Lander…
>> 
>> 🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html
>> 
>> 
>>  John :-#)#
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>  John's Jukes Ltd.
>> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
>> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>>  flippers.com
>>  "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

"Lunar Lander games abound on every platform"

For sure! I even have a copy on tape somewhere for the Burroughs L
series machines, but unfortunately I'm not aware of any of those still
working; there was an L7xxx and also an L5xxx and L9xxx, but AFAIK
they're display only.


On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:07 PM John Robertson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On 2024/06/17 12:26 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
> >   wrote:
> >> I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.
> >>
> >> This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
> >> should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >> It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):
> > https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/
> >
> > I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.
> >
> > -ethan
>
> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.
>
> Some more of the history of the games (from 2009):
>
> technologizer.com
>
> Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>
>
> Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and
> Pac-Man, the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your
> lunar module onto the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned
> computer games of all time. But did you know that game players began
> touching down on the moon in Lunar Lander…
>
> 🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html
> 
>
>   John :-#)#
>
>
> --
>   John's Jukes Ltd.
> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>   flippers.com
>   "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jun 17, 2024, at 4:00 PM, John Robertson via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> ...
> Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>
> 
> Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and Pac-Man, 
> the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your lunar module onto 
> the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned computer games of all 
> time. But did you know that game players began touching down on the moon in 
> Lunar Lander…
> 
> 🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html 
> 


There's also one for the CDC 6000 series mainframes, using the system console 
as the display.

* LUNAR - LUNAR LANDING SIMULATOR.
*
* L. R. ATKIN.   70/03/01.
* C. G. FILSTEAD.70/03/01.
* D. J. SLATE.   70/03/01.  VERSION 1.0
* C. G. FILSTEAD.70/08/16.  VERSION 2.0
* S. D. FREYDER. (LUN INTERFACE)
* J. J. DRUMMOND.77/06/20.  CONVERSION TO KRONOS/NOS.
 LUNARSPACE  4,10
***  LUNAR SIMULATES A SHIP IN THE VICINITY  OF  THE  MOON.
* IT IS ABLE TO ORBIT, LAND, TAKE OFF, ETC.  THE SIMULATED SHIP
* DOES NOT RESEMBLE THE *APOLLO* LUNAR MODULE, SINCE THRUST AND
* FUEL  LIMITATIONS  WOULD  MAKE LANDING TOO DIFFICULT AND TIME
* CONSUMING.

I tried it once.  It's HARD because it doesn't give you a spectator's view, as 
most of the other programs do (where you see the lander and the moon's 
terrain).  Instead, it shows you the pilot's view, with little windows showing 
not much at all, and a bunch of instruments that tell you which way is up and 
where you are.

I'm not sure if the console display was there in the original, or if that's the 
work of Stephen Freyder (date not given here, but probably 1976).

paul

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[John Robertson via cctalk]

On 2024/06/17 12:26 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
  wrote:

I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.

This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.

...

It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):

https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/

I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.

-ethan


Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar 
Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.


Some more of the history of the games (from 2009):

technologizer.com

Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>

Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and 
Pac-Man, the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your 
lunar module onto the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned 
computer games of all time. But did you know that game players began 
touching down on the moon in Lunar Lander…


🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html 



 John :-#)#


--
 John's Jukes Ltd.
7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
 flippers.com
 "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
 wrote:
> I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.
>
> This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
> should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.
>
> ...
>
> It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):

https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/

I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.

-ethan

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.

This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it 
should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.


I think I might have actually run it on a 4K PDP-8/L with an ASR-33 
Teletype sometime between 1972 and 1975.  I know I ran it on a PDP-8/E 
with 12K and a TD8E DecTape system based Edusystem 20 in 1975.


It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):

Abstract:

This program realistically simulates an Apollo moon landing using NASA 
figures. It begins with
module at fJ seconds, 120 miles above the moon, carrying 16000 pounds of 
fuel, with a velocity
of 2600 miles per hour. Upon radar checks of velocity, altitude, 
remaining fuel, and time each
10 seconds, you /nay decide upon fuel rate for next time interval. The 
object is to land safely

on the moon.

RESTRICTIONS
You cannot retain FOCAL's extended functions (LOG, EXP, etc).

I have attached a scan of the DECUS Program Library documentation on 
it.  This has the source on page 4 of the PDF










On 6/17/2024 4:40 AM, cz via cctalk wrote:
Didn't know the source code had been released in FOCAL. I wonder if it 
will run on a 4k pdp8/L.


One way to find out.

On 6/17/2024 4:38 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-old-bug-in-lunar-lander-computer-game-code/ 

[cctalk] VCF West tickets available now! Aug 2 & 3 @ CHM

[Jeffrey Brace via cctalk]

Tickets for VCF West 2024 Aug 2 & 3, Mountain View, CA

The show is looking to be bigger than ever!

We will again be at The Computer History Museum.

Tickets available through this link:
https://buy.acmeticketing.com/events/499/list

Existing VCF Members were emailed the coupon code for their 20% discount.
New members can email us after creating their membership to get the code.

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[cz via cctalk]

Didn't know the source code had been released in FOCAL. I wonder if it 
will run on a 4k pdp8/L.


One way to find out.

On 6/17/2024 4:38 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-old-bug-in-lunar-lander-computer-game-code/

[cctalk] Lunar Lander, bug

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-old-bug-in-lunar-lander-computer-game-code/

[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

[Steve Lewis via cctalk]

I got so busy the past couple weeks, I didn't get to chime in sooner :D

I did speak at VCF SW over this past weekend, on this topic related to the
first personal computer.   I'm not the best of speakers, and it was limited
to an hour discussion.   Jay will hopefully have the video recording up
before the end of this month, but he does have a lot of VCF talks to
process.


I'm sure I made some mistakes or misspoke on a few aspects, but hopefully I
didn't overly misrepresent anything.   The approach I tried to take wasn't
really to answer what was "first" but to give a broader context on how
computers became "domesticated" in the form of "another home appliance."


To me, "personal" was never really about the number of users - but more
about who bought the thing.  So regardless of whatever it can do, if you
bought it, it's yours - and you can control and make decisions about its
usage.  It's not limited to certain hours of the day for you to use, no
department chief dictates what types of processing is going on, etc.

Also when we say "personal computer", most are generally implicitly meaning
"home personal computer" -- since any business computer is generally owned
by the business, with (usually) restrictions on what you can do with it.
So by that criteria, to me, a computer costing more than a car doesn't
count as personal (relative to their initial retail advertised cost at the
year of release).

I'd also add that a "personal computer" also needs to be relocated by
yourself (as its owner).  The weight or bulk criteria on that will be
subjective (since some people are super strong, or some people have
handicap where they hardly lift anything),  But you should basically be
able to set up that computer on your own, and relocate it to a different
room on your own (maybe with a cart).   i.e. this eliminates most "desk
sized" computers as a criteria.


None of my talk covers aspects like this - since, again, my focus was
highlighting that journey throughout the 1970s.   I had really nearly 100
more slides to go through in the presentation, but it was time limited and
so I had to try to speed through some aspects.  I'll have the full slide
deck in a VCF video description once they've proceed through it.



-Steve L  (v*)













On Fri, Jun 7, 2024 at 8:42 PM Vincent Slyngstad via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 6/7/2024 6:19 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote:
> > OK, I have to chime in here.  I worked for Artronix about 1972. The LINC
> > computer was developed at MIT for use in biomedical research labs, and a
> > bunch of people involved with it later moved to Washington University in
> > St. Louis. The Biomedical Computer Lab there later added some features
> > such a a crude memory mapping unit and more memory, and called this the
> > Programmed Console, so as not to scare people away.  Artronix began
> > building these PC's and selling them to hospitals for radiation therapy
> > planning.  I have no idea how many were sold.  They were built into a
> > desk, and used 7400-series logic chips.  They etched their own PC
> > boards, drilled them by hand and soldered in the chips by hand.  I wrote
> > a series of diagnostics for them.
>
> Do any survive? I've looked for them but never found one.
>
> Vince
>
>