[cctalk] Re: MS-DOS

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Oh lord was it gammafax?
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 30, 2024, at 12:12 PM, The Doctor via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Monday, July 29th, 2024 at 18:22, David Wise via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I will never forget Windows ME. Bleargh!
> 
> I had to admin a fax server running on an ME box for a couple of years.  I 
> sincerely hope
> I never have to do that again..
> 
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
> Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
> 

[cctalk] Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Unless you enable hog mode dma. Works but then you can’t reliably use other dma 
devices on the Unibus. 

Like like that
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 27, 2024, at 10:34 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> The RM03 overran the RH11, that's why DEC had the RM02. Same basic drive,
> just slower.
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 3:32 AM Paul Anderson  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you interested in a RH11 backplane? I might have an extra one or one
>> with boards. I believe I have the 3 flat cables that go to the transition
>> bracket but I'm not sure about the round massbus cable. Also maybe a few
>> packs.
>> 
>> Thanks, Paul
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 4:59 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11
>>> backplane, though I have the cards.
>>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore
>>> the
>>> Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD
>>> drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't
>>> look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the
>>> Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want
>>> Massbus
>>> at all.
>>> 
>>> Christian
>>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Sure. I have enough spare boards to make another rh11 and while I have some 
packs extras are handy. Let’s chat next week when I am back

C

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 27, 2024, at 10:34 AM, Paul Anderson via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> The RM03 overran the RH11, that's why DEC had the RM02. Same basic drive,
> just slower.
> 
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 3:32 AM Paul Anderson  wrote:
>> 
>> Are you interested in a RH11 backplane? I might have an extra one or one
>> with boards. I believe I have the 3 flat cables that go to the transition
>> bracket but I'm not sure about the round massbus cable. Also maybe a few
>> packs.
>> 
>> Thanks, Paul
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 4:59 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11
>>> backplane, though I have the cards.
>>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore
>>> the
>>> Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD
>>> drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't
>>> look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the
>>> Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want
>>> Massbus
>>> at all.
>>> 
>>> Christian
>>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Speaking of which did any of the emulex sc univus adapters support 18 bit mode?

On July 25, 2024 6:27:38 PM GMT+02:00, Guy Sotomayor via cctalk 
 wrote:
>I'd be interested in the unibus SMD controllers as I'm in the middle of 
>working on an SMD emulator and it would be "nice" to be able to use one on my 
>11/40 (my 11/70 already has an SMD controller in the RH70 slots).
>
>TTFN - Guy
>
>On 7/25/24 05:40, Tom Uban via cctalk wrote:
>> Hi Christian,
>> 
>> As others have indicated, the drive has an SMD interface.
>> FWIW, I have a drive which was working when I acquired it a number of years 
>> ago, along with a bunch of disk packs and I have some emulex unibus disc 
>> controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested in these items, I am looking 
>> to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11 hardware). Where are you 
>> located? I am in NW Indiana...
>> 
>> --tom
>> 
>> 
>> On 7/25/24 04:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 
>>> backplane, though I have the cards.
>>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the 
>>> Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD 
>>> drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't 
>>> look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the 
>>> Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus 
>>> at all.
>>> 
>>> Christian
>> 
>-- 
>TTFN - Guy
>

[cctalk] Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

An rm03? I could use one for my 2020

On July 25, 2024 2:40:57 PM GMT+02:00, Tom Uban via cctalk 
 wrote:
>Hi Christian,
>
>As others have indicated, the drive has an SMD interface.
>FWIW, I have a drive which was working when I acquired it a number of years 
>ago, along with a bunch of disk packs and I have some emulex unibus disc 
>controllers (SC31, SC72). If you are interested in these items, I am looking 
>to reduce my collection (I have loads of pdp11 hardware). Where are you 
>located? I am in NW Indiana...
>
>--tom
>
>
>On 7/25/24 04:59, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 
>> backplane, though I have the cards.
>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the 
>> Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive 
>> (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look 
>> there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus 
>> adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
>> 
>> Christian
>

[cctalk] Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Interesting. The massbus adapters normally supported one drive per cage (I 
think the rm05 did two) I'll have to check it out

I would be happy to run my rm80 on the sc03 or uc03 controllers I have

C

On July 25, 2024 2:19:10 PM GMT+02:00, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk 
 wrote:
>I have never dealt with a massbus controller but have installed many 9762s on 
>Emulex controllers. One thing that the device that DEC put into the drive was 
>to do with sector and index. The bog standard drive comes with them on the A 
>cable, but in order to have multiple drives you have to move them on to the B 
>cable, which is where the controllers look for them.  It is a tricky w/w job 
>on the card cage backplane of the drive.  I no longer have the procedure.
>
>IIRC the transfer rate is 9.6608 MHz - but I may be worng on that, it has been 
>a few years!
>
>cheers,
>
>Nigel
>
>
>
>On 2024-07-25 07:02, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> I have always heard that Dec screwed with the smd spec.  Maybe not?
>> 
>> On July 25, 2024 12:41:57 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Thompson via 
>> cctalk  wrote:
>>> The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD device. You disconnect 
>>> the Massbus interface and connect the test system where the Massbus 
>>> interface was connected. So the drive interface is probably standard SMD. 
>>> The data transfer of the 9762 is fairly high, so it may not work with slow 
>>> controllers.
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via 
>>>> cctalk  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> 
>>>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 
>>>> backplane, though I have the cards.
>>>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the 
>>>> Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD 
>>>> drive (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>>>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't 
>>>> look there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the 
>>>> Massbus adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus 
>>>> at all.
>>>> 
>>>> Christian
>
>-- 
>Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
>Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
>Skype:  TILBURY2591
>

[cctalk] Re: DEC RM03 / CDC 9762

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

I have always heard that Dec screwed with the smd spec.  Maybe not?

On July 25, 2024 12:41:57 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Thompson via cctalk 
 wrote:
>The CDC test system for the RM03 is a standard SMD device. You disconnect the 
>Massbus interface and connect the test system where the Massbus interface was 
>connected. So the drive interface is probably standard SMD. The data transfer 
>of the 9762 is fairly high, so it may not work with slow controllers.
>
>> On Jul 25, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> we now have a RM03 drive, but are missing all the cables and the RH11 
>> backplane, though I have the cards.
>> Since the drive itself is a CDC 9762 I was wondering if I could ignore the 
>> Massbus adapter in the drive cabinet and use the CDC as a "normal" SMD drive 
>> (at least it uses the standard 60+26 pin cables).
>> There are no service manuals/schematics of the drive itself, so I can't look 
>> there. And all I could find on the net were discussions of using the Massbus 
>> adapter for normal SMD drives but in my case, I don't want Massbus at all.
>> 
>> Christian

[cctalk] Re: NeXT computer system...

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

I have one in my closet 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 16, 2024, at 1:19 PM, John Robertson via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2024/07/16 9:24 a.m., Bill Degnan wrote:
>> how hard is it to track down a replacement NeXT cube motherboard?
>> Bill
> 
> Is that a trick question?
> 
> I have no idea...this is the first NeXT I've seen in over thirty years! And I 
> think this is the same machine I saw in Vancouver all those years in my 
> friend's basement...
> 
> John ;-#)#
> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2024 at 11:38 AM John Robertson via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>On 2024/07/16 6:28 a.m., Paul Koning wrote:
>>>> On Jul 16, 2024, at 9:05 AM, John Robertson via
>>cctalk wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm just starting to clean up a NeXT system that a friend has
>>had in storage for decades...
>>>>
>>>> I assume the thing has a battery somewhere - I just hope it
>>isn't Ni-Cad!
>>> At that age it might well be.  So what?  I think they are still
>>available.  Or you can replace it by a non-rechargeable battery. 
>>That's what I did with the ToD clock battery in my Pro; a lithium
>>coin cell with a series diode to prevent "charging" is not an
>>ideal solution but adequate, and it would be better if I used a
>>Schottky diode rather than a plain Si rectifier diode I happened
>>to have lying around.
>>>
>>>   paul
>> 
>>Battery leakage was the issue - having dealt with a great many logic
>>boards damaged or destroyed by leaking Ni-Cad batteries.
>> 
>>I've since seen a photo of the inside of the NeXT and it looks
>>like they
>>used a plug in Lithium battery, so that risk is no longer of much
>>concern to me.
>> 
>>John :-#)#
>> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Video/keyboard mono cable for Sun 386i

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Am at a conference just do a search on 386i and I should pop up

On May 30, 2024 9:06:48 AM EDT, Stefano Sanna via cctalk 
 wrote:
>Hi.
>
>I thought about using the serial connection (which should be enabled only if 
>the video card is removed).
>
>Thank you for the advice about the battery: usual issue with SGI, Sony 
>News :-)
>
>Unfortunately, the hard disk was been removed before I collected the 
>workstation.
>
>Could you please share the link to your post on the VCF Forum?
>
>Thank you.
>-s
>
>On 30/05/24 11:53, cz via cctalk wrote:
>> I have one around here somewhere. Sun built two cables, one was for the 
>> color boards (CGThree and CGFive) and the other was for monochrome systems 
>> (the D15).
>> 
>> In the meantime you can hook a computer to the RS232 port and start running 
>> the thing headless to see what's there. Note, you're going to have to 
>> replace the timekeeper chip (or hack a new battery into it, there's docs on 
>> how I did that 30 years ago). I recommend wiring in a dual AAA adapter, that 
>> way you can replace the batteries every 15 or so years.
>> 
>> Last time I fired up my three 386i's, two of the power supplies had blown up 
>> and one of the boards would not pass diagnostics. Of the supplies, one was 
>> hopeless so I hacked in a standard PC-AT supply board and got everything 
>> running (you don't NEED the -15 volts, but heck some ISA board you plug in 
>> will want it :-) and I figured out how to fix the other one by wiring in a 
>> new 12 volt kick starter supply to get the main supply up and running.
>> 
>> I wrote up all of this on the vcf forum. Worth a read.
>> 
>> If it's got a hard disk and it spins I'd recommend hooking it up to a SCSI 
>> adapter and doing a dd image of it first. Then you can figure out the 
>> partitions by whacking away at the image (I did this), then mount the 
>> volumes on another system, grab /etc/passwd, and crack the passwords in 
>> about 4 hours with john or a related tool.
>> 
>> Once up, put it on the public internet and confuse the hell out of hackers.
>> 
>> Have fun!
>> CZ
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/30/2024 4:59 AM, Stefano Sanna via cctalk wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> I recently bought a Sun Microsystems 386i and I discovered (too late...) 
>>> that monitor and keyboard are connected to the same D15 connector on the 
>>> back using a "Y" cable (I had experience with other Sun workstations, this 
>>> was first contact with Intel-based hardware).
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately, I have not such a cable neither I was able to find any info 
>>> on the web about the pinout/wiring; probably it would be possible to create 
>>> the cable from scratch (assuming that no other circuitry was inside the 
>>> original Y cable). Moreover, I discovered that there is more than one 
>>> option for video boards (mono and color): therefore, there is more than a 
>>> single Y cable to connect monitor and keyboard.
>>> 
>>> Looking at the official Sun's hardware list, I found this item:
>>> 
>>> 630-1621 386i video/keyboard cable
>>> 
>>> but it does not specify whether it is the mono or the color cable. In any 
>>> case, it seems impossible to buy it on eBay or similar.
>>> 
>>> Does anybody have some information on how to rebuild it?
>>> 
>>> Thank you.
>>> -s

[cctalk] Re: Charles Stross, replay the bubble of 1995, alt history plus retrocomp

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

It is funny, but truth be told we dodged a massive bullet by going with 
the "Internet" and TCP/IP as opposed to the nightmare of AT Connect, 
IPX, and the blazing speeds of TWO! ISDN B channels.


I was there. I remember X.400, and how NDS was going to be the directory 
system that bound us all together in hell forever. I remember everything...


We missed living in that crap-sack universe by six months or so.

CZ

[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Always fun to see some of the flameouts that came from css. Sha tin always pops 
to mind. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 16, 2024, at 9:39 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>> On Apr 16, 2024, at 10:15 AM, William Donzelli via cctalk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'll bet the source was talking about large contemporary storage units that
>>> looked like drums or may have been called "drums" but were not actual 50's
>>> drum memory with tubes and such.  There was no rotating drum storage, the
>>> media rotates in the PDP era.
>>> 
>>> Take a look at any pdp 11 peripheral handbook, there would be drum memory
>>> there if it was an official product.
>> 
>> Key words being "official product".
>> 
>> Digital CSS department - Computer Special Systems, where all that
>> weird stuff that was DEC engineered and built came from. Call it "low
>> run semi custom".
> 
> For that matter, there are a lot of DEC products not seen in any Handbook.  
> If you want to see everything that was produced by DEC, check the 
> Option/Module list.  
> 
> To pick an example, the typesetting products were certainly official DEC 
> products, not CSS, though admittedly low volume.  But you won't find the 
> PA611, or the VT61/t, or the VT71 or VT20, in any peripheral or other 
> "handbook".
> 
>paul
> 

[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

If you want word-addressable, the RF11 will do that.  Not the RC11, it has 32 
word sectors.


Oh yeah, the pdp11 world had a DF32 like thing with the RF11. Totally 
forgot about that one.


C

[cctalk] Re: Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

This uncited claim was introduced 15 years ago, along with the commit
comment "Hey, I saw drums (and core memory!) on PDP 11/45 hardware
running UNIX v6 (pre-BSD) in 1980 ... "

So, someone anonymous saw some once, somewhere, and promoted this to
"many sites."



Well, I can submit a correction, but does anyone remember /dev/drum? I 
don't recall that in V6m or V7 Unix, I guess I could fire one of them up 
and see


Speaking of which I should make a copy of those disk packs for SIMH. 
They are genned for a dual RL01 11/34 system and while I recall they 
also worked on an 11/23 I don't have a pair of RL01's anymore (just an 
RL02 I can re-jumper to read RL01 packs but NEVER WRITE THEM)

[cctalk] Drum memory on pdp11's? Wikipedia thinks so....

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Was reading the Wikipedia article on Drum memories:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drum_memory#External_links

And came across this tidbit.

 As late as 1980, PDP-11/45 machines using magnetic core main memory 
and drums for swapping were still in use at many of the original UNIX 
sites.


Any thoughts on what they are talking about? I could see running the 
RS03/RS04 on a 11/45 with the dual Unibus configured so the RS03's talk 
to memory directly instead of the Unibus, but that's not quite the same 
as true drum memory.


Closest thing I remember was the DF32 on a pdp8 which could be addressed 
by word as opposed to track/sector.


Thoughts?
C

[cctalk] Re: PDP-11 thingy. What is it?

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Quniverter perhaps?

C

On 4/10/2024 8:07 PM, W2HX via cctalk wrote:

Great! thank you Glen and also Michael T. for the identifications.
So this appears to be a PDP-11/23 with this FC-202 floppy controller.

1. I have read that the card and the drives were compatible with the dec rx02 
drives. Why would the CRDS even bother to redesign a card where DEC had 
perfectly good working ones? Anyone know if there is any value in keeping the 
FC-202 or just keep with the DEC cards?

2. Any idea on that other card? 
https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/Board1/

Thanks guys!

73 Eugene W2HX
My Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/@w2hx/videos
  


-Original Message-
From: Glen Slick via cctalk 
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2024 7:44 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Glen Slick 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: PDP-11 thingy. What is it?

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024, 4:14 PM W2HX via cctalk  wrote:


Hi all, I picked up this PDP-11 thing. Can anyone help me understand
what it is?
Pictures are here:
https://w2hx.com/?prefix=x/What-Is-It/PDP-11-Thing/

I could not find any designation on the backplane. It is a
wire-wrappable backplane. I don't know if it is Qbus, unibus or
whether it is 18 or 22 bit addressing (this is because I am a newbie in this 
area).



H9270 Backplane, Page 366 (page 376 of the pdf)

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/qbus/EB-23144-18_QbusIntrfs_1983.pdf

[cctalk] Re: How to shutdown RT11?

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

I remember it as kill -9 1 then sync halt

Or sync sync halt

On March 23, 2024 2:53:56 PM GMT, Paul Koning via cctalk 
 wrote:
>
>
>> On Mar 22, 2024, at 6:38 PM, Diane Bruce via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024 at 11:00:25PM +0100, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
>>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2024, 10:54 PM Zane Healy via cctalk 
>> ...
>>> Even v7 Unix didn't have halt or reboot.
>> 
>> sync;sync;sync
>> power off
>> 
>> I remember it well.
>
>Yes.  So Unix did have a shutdown procedure, and it was particularly critical 
>to do it and do it right.  I remember when I first heard about Unix, when at 
>the U of Illinois -- some PDP11s in the Center for Advanced Computation ran 
>it, for their Arpanet connection.  The story was that CAC was a good facility 
>to run Unix because it had very reliable power -- it was built to house Illiac 
>4 before that machine was moved to a military facility in response to campus 
>protests.  So there was little worry about having to repair the file system 
>manually after a power failure -- I guess fsck hadn't been created yet, or 
>perhaps wasn't reliable yet.
>
>   paul
>

[cctalk] Dumping an UV PROM for a Sun 386i

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Hi all!

I'm working on a little side project to see why one can't put a better 
CPU chip into a Sun 386i. Basically with a real 386 in the socket the 
system will at least start to flash the LEDs on the back, but with a 
Cyrix chip the LEDs are frozen on.


I can remove the frame buffer, memory cards, even the Timekeeper chip 
and I still see this behavior. Running with no CPU or no PROM chip makes 
the system flash no lights, pointing to the problem being code in the PROM.


Now, 386 CPUs don't have the CPUID register, but they do have a little 
feature where upon reset EDX contains a "3" to show the CPU "type". On a 
Cyrix chip it contains a "4".


My guess is the ROM code has at the beginning a check of EDX and if <>3 
go to a halt. I'd like to dump the code, find that check, and either 
replace the 3 with a 4, or replace the first HALT with a NOOP.


The PROM is an Intel D27010 which is an Intel 128k*8 chip. Unfortunately 
I'm not finding much in terms of either datasheets or PROM programmers.


Does anyone know how to/have the tools to dump and reprogram this? I'll 
bet the old archives that talk about the "Blue Lightning 386" working 
for boot were due to the chip being made under license of Intel thus 
being allowed to have that "3" in there.


But since I also have a TI 386/486 chip with 8k of L1 cache, a 486 core 
instruction set, faster multiplier, and clock doubling by default I 
think it might wind up being faster.


C

[cctalk] Re: HAPPY DEC-20 DAY!

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

My late friend Mark always noted that TOPS-20 (and the DECSYSTEM-20 on 
which it

runs) was a great improvement on its successors.

I wish you all a joyous Winter Solstice Festival, however you may 
choose to

celebrate it.


Indeed Rich and everyone. Good to be on this list, and good to meet so 
many people.


MC continues to sit quietly in my shed, this year I did get it unburied 
and removed most of the boards for cleaning. Looks like everything is 
there, the question now is to get the CPU chassis out and find the power 
supply that I stored in my attic 20 or so years ago. If the supply still 
works (and it's a pretty nice switching supply) maybe I'll take the 
backplane out of the box and clean it in the spring


I wonder how his brother AI is doing. Is it cold in what's left of the 
CHM? Is it dark? Is AI lonely, missing people @SUPDUPing in and all that?


Happy Holidays everyone.

[cctalk] Re: Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Thank you I will rescan the third disk.

On August 4, 2023 12:33:31 PM EDT, "Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk" 
 wrote:
>I did some testing on the image sets using simh.
>I had to prepare the images first using lbn2rx50
>, because simh expects them to be in
>logical order.
>Results:
>ULTRIX-11 V3.0: All images good
>MicroRSTS V2.1: The third image throws an error:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>*sim> ATT RQ2 RSTS21-3.RX5%SIM-INFO: RQ2: 'RSTS21-3.RX5' Contains a RSTS
>File system%SIM-INFO: RQ2: Pack ID: MICR3  Revision Level: 1.2 Pack
>Clustersize: 1%SIM-INFO: RQ2: Last Unallocated Sector In File System:
>799sim> c?Error opening Backup set?Device hung or write lockedMount volume
>3 on device _DU2:Press RETURN when ready:*
>
>MicroRSX V2.1: Have not found out yet which one of the images is the one to
>start with. Is the image set complete?
>I thought that RSX4-I.IMG  was
>the one (with an I instead of a 1), but all I got was:
>*Trap stack push abort, PC: 14 (40)*
>Maybe that image is bad, too ...
>
>Ulli
>
>Am Do., 27. Juli 2023 um 00:55 Uhr schrieb Chris Zach via cctalk <
>cctalk@classiccmp.org>:
>
>> Ok, files are up on https://www.crystel.com/pdp/os and
>> https://www.crystel.com/pro350
>>
>> MicroRSX, Ultrix11, MicroRSTS/E, and um spss
>>
>> On 7/26/2023 1:51 PM, Mark Matlock via cctalk wrote:
>> > Chris,
>> > I would be interested in getting a copy of the SSPS/X software for
>> POS. I have a manual for SPSS/11 and would love to  try to get the software
>> running under RSX11M+ if possible.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Mark
>> >
>> >> On Jul 26, 2023, at 12:00 PM, cctalk-requ...@classiccmp.org wrote:
>> >>
>> >> From: Chris Zach > >> > >>
>> >> Subject: [cctalk] Old Professional/350 software, any of this out there
>> >> Date: July 26, 2023 at 9:30:10 AM CDT
>> >> To: CCTalk mailing list > cctalk@classiccmp.org>>
>> >> Reply-To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Starting to go through my boxes of POS stuff. I know of course that 3.2
>> is out there (minus the Pro/Communications option which has a bad disk in
>> the distro) however are these disks out there now?
>> >>
>> >> Pro/Venix 1.0 on floppies
>> >> POS V2.0a on floppies
>> >>
>> >> POS version 1.5 (with test diskette, maintenance application, a thing
>> called Pro/Pre labelled "Diskette system", system overview and instruction
>> disks)
>> >>
>> >> POS V1.7 (I have that here somewhere)
>> >>
>> >> Pro/Basic Version 1.0 and 1.2
>> >>
>> >> SPSS/X For Professional (this is a really interesting one, anyone heard
>> of this?)
>> >>
>> >> If so let me know and I won't copy them. If not I'll go over to the
>> mighty Deskpro/XE and start sucking the data off for archives
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >> Chris
>> >> (Hoping to find old drivers or scaffolding or something that will give
>> me a hint into how DEC ported POS)
>>

[cctalk] Re: Using Teledisk 2.16 to read old RX50 images

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Sounds good. Imagedisk however produces imd files, need to then convert to imd 
files with the imdu /b command.

Cz

On May 14, 2023 9:58:31 AM EDT, Warner Losh via cctalk  
wrote:
>On Sun, May 14, 2023, 7:47 AM Chris Zach via cctalk 
>wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Well, after a good bit of work I have finally gotten my Compaq XE4000 up
>> and running with Windows 98, the BIOS all set, a new battery, and of
>> course a 1.2mb 5.25 floppy that seems to be working.
>>
>
>I'd avoid teledisk.  I'd look at Dave Dunfield's ImageDisk. It produces
>those img files directly.  It's linked from
>http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/img/index.htm
>
>I'd now like to start sucking the rare images I have here on RX50 into a
>> TD0 format which can be converted to a .IMG format which can then be
>> used on the mighty GoTek's to allow people to run such operating systems
>> as:
>>
>> Micro RSTS 2.1
>> Micro RSX (I forget the exact version)
>> Micro-11 Maint disks
>> Ultrix 11 Version 2.0 (all 30 disks)
>>
>
>Oh, these are interesting.
>
>http://www.bitsavers.org/bits/DEC/pdp11/floppyimages/rx50/
>
>Has some interesting goodies too, but none of these excrpt maybe yhe Micro
>RSTS stuff. Maybe if you get them imaged, you could send them to Al.
>
>If you are in Denver by chance, I'd be happy to help image these too.
>
>Warner
>
>Before I start popping these in I have a question: I just did a test
>> using an XXDP floppy and the message I got included
>> Single sided, double density
>> Interleave 1:1
>> Sector Size is 512
>>
>> And then for each track from 1 to 82 (?) it said
>> "Data, No ID adding sector 110"
>>
>> Is this right? Something else I might need to do for reading RX50's?
>>
>
>
>
>Thanks!
>> CZ
>>

[cctalk] Re: flipchip cleaning and pin corrosion inhibition

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

People who used to do watches. Similar size issues.

On April 25, 2023 3:38:16 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk 
 wrote:
>
>
>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:25 AM, KenUnix via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Rod,
>> 
>> Never heard the singing. Switch room's were too noisy.
>> 
>> It always amazed me that those core planes were hand wired. I guess by
>> little people. Or, big people with little hands.
>
>People (often women I think) with steady hands.  I think the setup used a work 
>surface with notches in it corresponding to the positions of each core.  They 
>would pour a cup full of cores onto that and use gentle shaking and vibrating 
>to get all those notches filled, then pour off the excess.  Next, threading 
>the cores much like you thread a needle -- except that the wire is stiffer 
>than thread and thus easier to make it go straight through.
>
>One wonders if this could have been done by machine.  Probably yes, but given 
>the volumes involved I suppose the capital investment wasn't justified.
>
>The more amazing kind of hand-wired core is core ROM, where the wires weave in 
>and out of various cores according to the required bit pattern.  Getting that 
>right seems like a far more complicated craft.
>
>   paul
>
>

[cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Well there is an agreement that if paul ever got tired of ai, lost interest, 
and wanted to get rid of it then I would show up with a U-Haul to pick it up 
off the dock.

All this has happened before, all this will happen again.

Digex, sandstorm, ftp, etc. Funny I thought it would end with Paul.

CZ

(My burden, I'm stuck with it)

On April 25, 2023 3:50:33 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk 
 wrote:
>
>
>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk  wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
>> 
>>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
>>> firesale of the assets.
>> AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" assets, 
>> lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound.
>
>Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit?  If you donate to the 
>museum, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit.  That 
>is, unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd have 
>to hope that a court would enforce a contract.  There is ample precedent of 
>courts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or trusts to permit 
>museums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements with donors.  A 
>recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
>
>   paul
>
>

[cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Let's see where this goes. I might need to do a forensic dump, fire up my NeXT 
and find the letters and documents around ai.ai.mit.edu

Figured this would happen.

On April 25, 2023 3:03:02 PM GMT+02:00, Paul Koning via cctalk 
 wrote:
>
>
>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 2:16 AM, Tom Hunter via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
>> firesale of the assets.
>> Otherwise a lot of donors and contributors would be rightfully upset - me
>> included.
>
>I know of at least one donor who realized his mistake years ago, and wishes he 
>had lent his collection to the museum rather than donating it.  That's not 
>foolproof (a museum may not exercise due care) but at least you don't have to 
>worry about the museum, or some heir, deciding to trash the stuff.
>
>   paul
>
>

[cctalk] Re: ESDI drive imaging

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Not that I know of. Esdi has a much faster data rate and I think that outstrips 
the BBB solution.

C

On April 22, 2023 6:18:39 PM EDT, Dennis Boone via cctalk 
 wrote:
>I think I know the answer to this, but just in case:
>
>Is there a way to image ESDI disks other than to hook them up to their
>usual host controller and use the host?  E.g. for MFM, I'd grab the MFM
>Emulator board.
>
>Cheers,
>
>De

[cctalk] Re: HP9825A for sale

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

A 9825a is rare? I couldn't find anyone interested  in one with a down power 
supply last year. Sold for 500 on ebay

On April 17, 2023 11:51:42 AM EDT, Steve Lewis via cctalk 
 wrote:
>There is a gentlemen in New Jersey willing to sell his HP9825A
>
>I believe he is the original owner.  It has 4 ROM cartridges (that go in
>the front) and several data cartridges for the slot on the top left.
>
>He is asking $2000 but can probably negotiate (as he didn't find any takers
>in VCF East).  As far as he knows, everything still works (LED lights came
>on when he powered it up a few months ago).
>
>I've met this seller and can vouch for him, but I don't know much about
>this particular item.
>
>I have some photos of it at the bottom of this page:
>https://voidstar.blog/vcf-east-2023-part-3/
>
>I may try a VCF forum topic about it.  Just trying to help him find a good
>home for the equipment.  E-mail/reply direct and I can provide some contact
>info.
>
>(BTW not sure if my cctalk posts are working anymore??)
>
>-Steve / voidstar

[cctalk] Re: Why the Floppy Disk Just Won't Die

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Maybe. I've seen a lot of floppy rot on some of these rx50s. Black stuff 
transfers to the head then the head damages other floppies. Result is a mess 
and I have to check heads on all new disks.

Kind of like the tk50 tapes

On March 10, 2023 11:52:29 AM EST, rescue via cctalk  
wrote:
>
>If properly care for and stored, I'd be willing to bet that the 5.25" floppies 
>will be working after the flash replacements suffer bit rot and data loss from 
>charge depletion  though I might not be around to see that be a big 
>problem :-)
>
>Don't toss your 5.25" floppies though :-) I'll take 'em :-)  (though I 
>probably shouldn't :-) ).
>
>No 3.5" HD though I have enough of those to last a lifetime if they 
>last :-)
>
>-- Curt
>
>On 2023-03-09 19:53, Christopher Zach via cctalk wrote:
>> Interesting article but when goteks are 30 a pop on ebay and work on
>> something as wonky as a professional 350, I think it's time to let
>> 5.25 floppies go
>> 
>> I'll get a teac but mainly to convert all my pdp11 floppies to images.
>> 
>> Cz
>> 
>> On March 9, 2023 7:00:39 PM EST, Jim Brain via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>>> https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-floppy-disk-just-wont-die/
>>> 
>>> Take what you want from the article, but I thought the end paragraph, 
>>> noting that Tom Persky of floppydisk.com is 73 and is only planning to 
>>> handle things for 5 more years.  After that, he thinks the company will not 
>>> transfer to anyone.
>>> 
>>> Interesting thoughts there.
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Jim Brain
>>> br...@jbrain.com
>>> www.jbrain.com
>>> 
>

[cctalk] Re: Why the Floppy Disk Just Won't Die

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Interesting article but when goteks are 30 a pop on ebay and work on something 
as wonky as a professional 350, I think it's time to let 5.25 floppies go

I'll get a teac but mainly to convert all my pdp11 floppies to images. 

Cz

On March 9, 2023 7:00:39 PM EST, Jim Brain via cctalk  
wrote:
>https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-floppy-disk-just-wont-die/
>
>Take what you want from the article, but I thought the end paragraph, noting 
>that Tom Persky of floppydisk.com is 73 and is only planning to handle things 
>for 5 more years.  After that, he thinks the company will not transfer to 
>anyone.
>
>Interesting thoughts there.
>
>Jim
>
>-- 
>Jim Brain
>br...@jbrain.com
>www.jbrain.com
>

[cctalk] Re: Using Flashfloppies on Professional 350 and 380--SOLVED

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Not sure yet. Will see in a week or so

On March 8, 2023 1:42:58 PM EST, Lee Gleason via cctalk  
wrote:
>"Holy smokes. Poking around on these disk images it looks like these system 
>have a FULL DECNET FILE SERVER as well." Are you referring to DECnet FAL on 
>the PRO, or the little known PRO Cluster software? -- Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR 
>Control-G Consultants lee.glea...@comcast.net

[cctalk] Re: DEC PDP 11/60's in need of a new home.

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

Wow. Interested pics? Do they have rk07 s

On January 28, 2023 4:54:50 PM EST, Jerry Wright via cctalk 
 wrote:
>I have 2 of these that  are in need of a  new home.  These are quite large  4 
>racks each.  Although the 11/60 is only a double rack by itself.
>Offers. Located In Kent. WA.
>- Jerry253-569-6041

Re: Flip-Chip selloff

[Christopher Zach via cctalk]

I've had 30+ years to acquire this "stuff". :-)

On 2/2/2021 4:38 PM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On Tue, Feb 02, 2021 at 05:57:27PM -0500, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

Probably a lot more.

"Probably" ???

Sheesh.  I thought *I* had too many projects.

mcl