[cctalk] [FS] Power Macs in Victoria, Australia - Apple Workgroup Server 9150 also 8100, 7100, 6200

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi list

A relative is selling these Macs in Victoria, Australia:

  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/204136123378

Hoping they can find a good home.

--Toby

[cctalk] [FS] Power Macs in Victoria, Australia - Apple Workgroup Server 9150 also 8100, 7100, 6200

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi list

A relative is selling these Macs in Victoria, Australia:

  https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/204136123378

Hoping they can find a good home.

--Toby

PS. Sorry if posted twice, I am in the middle of changing my email 
address to toby -at- telegraphics dot net

[cctalk] Re: Soviet PDP clones

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-10-18 3:36 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

Single package, multiple die.  Same goes for F11.


And the MV1. And the MVII. And the 8200, CVAX, Rigel/etc

I think the NVAX was on a single chip





Ah, I didn't know there were so many multi-dies in the range! I wonder 
if anyone is interested in taking some high quality X-rays. If it 
logistically makes sense I could lend boards for this...


--Toby

[cctalk] Re: Soviet PDP clones

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-10-18 10:57 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On Oct 18, 2022, at 10:01 AM, Toby Thain via cctalk  
wrote:

On 2022-10-18 2:57 a.m., Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote:

Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On Oct 17, 2022, at 2:47 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk  
wrote:

Hi all,

After some discussion on reddit about russian PDP-11 clones, i made the 
(perhaps erronous) claim that the PDP series in general was cloned by the 
Soviets.


That's definitely accurate.  I have seen pictures of Russian Pro clones.

Yes. But they "cloned" not only DEC Pros, they build PDP11 Computers in
several variants. ...
The USSR built several PDP11 Processors, K1801VM1, K1801VM2, K1801VM3, N1806VM2
etc.. which are all Single Chip PDP11's. DEC's only Single Chip CPU was
the T11.


J11?


Single package, multiple die.  Same goes for F11.



Oops, yes forgot about that. More coffee needed.

--T


paul

[cctalk] Re: Soviet PDP clones

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-10-18 2:57 a.m., Holm Tiffe via cctalk wrote:

Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:





On Oct 17, 2022, at 2:47 PM, Joshua Rice via cctalk  
wrote:

Hi all,

After some discussion on reddit about russian PDP-11 clones, i made the 
(perhaps erronous) claim that the PDP series in general was cloned by the 
Soviets.


That's definitely accurate.  I have seen pictures of Russian Pro clones.


Yes. But they "cloned" not only DEC Pros, they build PDP11 Computers in
several variants. ...
The USSR built several PDP11 Processors, K1801VM1, K1801VM2, K1801VM3, N1806VM2
etc.. which are all Single Chip PDP11's. DEC's only Single Chip CPU was
the T11.



J11?

--Toby

[cctalk] Re: TVI-921C

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-09-14 1:06 p.m., Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

Lots of Televideo docs scanned thanks to good old Al ==>
https://bitsavers.computerhistory.org/pdf/televideo/

Nothing for the 921 but there is an operator's manual for the 922 which may
shed some light on what the continuous beep might mean.



I have the "Televideo 912/920" service binder but I know it has stuff 
for other models inside. There is a similar binder on bitsavers I 
thought, but each one is probably slightly different. I can check inside 
it to see if there's anything relevant.


(I own a TVI-920B. 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/qu1j0t3/37328445552/in/photolist-2ms1g25-ZKXCwz-ZHeUUw-YFfEiC-ZveVwW-ZaeiZm-ZveFZA-YSAJ5Y-YSA3mQ-XQyMpE-XQyzYd-BPejR7-P2zGrL-P2tdPo 
)


--Toby


Sellam

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 9:33 AM Peter Coghlan via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Mike Loewen wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:


I have a TVI-921C at the museum. I power it on and it beeps
continuously. One long, solid tone that does not stop until I power it
off. How do I start diagnosing this?


Check the power supply voltages.



After checking the voltages, if it has a microprocessor, check if it is
being
held reset and if the clock is running.

If it is a big lump of logic, it would probably be a lot easier to deal
with if you can find some sort of service manual / circuit diagram /
circuit description.

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

[cctalk] Re: Symbolics (Lisp) manuals, flyers available

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-09-12 1:52 a.m., Raphaël Jacquot via cctalk wrote:



Le 12/09/2022 à 03:13, Stan Sieler via cctalk a écrit :

Hi,

I have 15 manuals, flyers, and miscellaneous papers from/about the
Symbolics, Inc computer(s), database, and more.

Pictures at http://www.sieler.com/symbolics

If anyone's interested, please  email me (sie...@gmail.com)


I'd say @bitsavers on twitter would be the proper person to talk to



aek is on this list too.

--Toby




Raphael



List:

Concordia__Object-Oriented_Document_Management___Symbolic_Inc__copy
Introducing_Statice___The_first_Object-Oriented_Database_System__copy
Lisp_Machine_Summary
Lisp_Machine_Summary__a_bit_rough
Program_Development___Help_Facilities
Program_Development___Tools_and_Techniques
Reference_Guide_to_Symbolics-Lisp
Symbolics_Concordia
Symbolics_Marketing
Symbolics___3600_Symbol_Processing_Systems
Symbolics__a_brochure
Symbolics__flyer
The_Symbolics_3670__Discover_the_power_of_symbolic_processing
The_Symbolics_Genera_Programming_Environment__from_a_magazine
VERAC_Announced_GeoFlavors___on_Your_Symbolics_Lisp_Machine__flyer

thanks,

Stan

[cctalk] Re: "Revival" of a dedicated Micropolis webpage on internet

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-08-16 3:42 a.m., P Gebhardt via cctalk wrote:

Hello list,

by coincidence, I came across this website:

https://www.micropolis.com/

It seems to have been set up by a former employee of Micropolis with 
information about Micropolis products done until the late 90s.


If people are into Micropolis ephemera, I scanned a bunch of their 
newsletters:


  https://docs.telegraphics.com.au/Micropolis_Users_Group/index.html

Note these are multipage TIFFs, readable with most system installed 
readers, e.g. Apple Preview.


--Toby




Cheers,
Pierre

-
http://www.digitalheritage.de

[cctalk] Re: FTGH: Embedded books HC11

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-07-30 12:18 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

I have these 3 books which are free for postage:

1) M68HC11E Family Technical Data
2) M68HC11 HCMOS Single-Chip Microcomputer Programmer's Reference Manual
3) MC68HC711D3 Technical Data

Pic: https://imgur.com/TQhzUHJ

Located: Toronto Canada

--Toby


These are now claimed.

--Toby

[cctalk] FTGH: Embedded books HC11

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

I have these 3 books which are free for postage:

1) M68HC11E Family Technical Data
2) M68HC11 HCMOS Single-Chip Microcomputer Programmer's Reference Manual
3) MC68HC711D3 Technical Data

Pic: https://imgur.com/TQhzUHJ

Located: Toronto Canada

--Toby

Re: Xerox 800 Word Processor 1974 promo film

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-07-02 11:24 a.m., Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

On 7/2/22 3:50 AM, D. Resor via cctalk wrote:
This video just popped up in my YT view.  It was posted a couple days 
ago.


XEROX Word Processing Machines & Computers 1975 (Xerox 800 vintage promo
film)


That was an interesting video, thank you for sharing Don.

I don't know that I've ever heard / seen the name "Rank" prefixing 
"Xerox" before.


Can anyone elaborate on that?


It's familiar. Wikipedia can: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank_Xerox

Re: DEC H7822 power supply

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-05-12 11:37 a.m., Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:

Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

On 2022-05-11 7:02 p.m., Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:


Given the normal usage that has evolved for the terms DC and AC 
rather than

their dictionary definitions, I would suggest that the current that gets
passed by a rectifier has both a DC component and an AC component.  When



It does not, due to unidirectionality.



Consider the current through the rectifier as the sum of a "DC" current 
plus

an "AC" current.  The "DC" current has a steady positive value and the "AC"
current varies above and below zero with a magnitude less than or equal to
that of the "DC" current.

When the two are summed, the result is a varying current which does not go
below zero.  This is what I mean by it having a DC component and an AC
component.


Sure, if you change the reference point, a DC signal under one reference 
("zero") potential becomes AC under a different potential. The 
definitions are relative to a reference, in order to define the current 
direction.





This sort of analysis often used in electronic engineering to break down
more complex entities into simpler ones which can be analysed separately
with greater ease.  Didn't somebody have a theorem or an axiom or something
that says this is a valid way to do it? I forget who.  It was a long time
ago.  Kirchoff maybe? No, it wasn't him, maybe he was the one that said
the sum of currents into and out of nodes is zero and stuff like that...
It is a particularly suitable strategy for the case in hand because a
transformer will not pass "DC" from primary to secondary so the effect of
this component can be ignored (except that it could cause the transformer
core to saturate which must be allowed for.  This is only relevant to the
designer of the power supply but if I don't mention it, someone will
surely tell me that I should have.)

(I am starting to regret making the effort to accurately describe this
unusual and confusing (to me anyway) circuit for the benefit of others who
might find themselves struggling with this power supply as I was and might
find some hints on how it operates to be helpful.)

Regards,
Peter Coghlan.

Re: DEC H7822 power supply

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-05-12 4:40 a.m., Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 12 May 2022, Peter Coghlan wrote:
about it?  Maybe it would be more accurate to use terms like steady 
voltage

and alternating voltage? Alternating doesn't seem like that good a term


In German it's exactly like you suggest it. We say "Gleichspannung" (= 
constant/steady voltage) and "Wechselspannung" (=alternating voltage)


I also hate the English/American expression "inverter" for voltage 
converters, because really nothing is being inverted in any way.




Generating AC from DC _does_ always involve generation of "inverted" 
voltages relative to the input DC (AC has positive and negative cycles), 
so the term isn't really strange?



But hey, they still have inches and feet and ounzes (be they fluid or 
solid) and gallons, so what can I expect? ;-


Christian

Re: DEC H7822 power supply

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-05-11 7:02 p.m., Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote:

It's hard to come up with suitable terms for this sort of stuff that
convey the meaning of what is going on.  I struggled with it for a while
and that was what I ended up with.

With the strict meaning of DC and AC being direct current and alternating
current and given that we are often talking about voltages rather than
currents, meanings are already getting stretched.  Besides, what's direct
about it?  Maybe it would be more accurate to use terms like steady voltage


Many textbooks (and wikipedia) define DC as "in one direction", which is 
accurate. There is no need to refer to voltage; DC is indeed descriptive 
of the _current_ not voltage. "Constant voltage" is not a synonym for 
"DC", although it is a subset of DC we frequently encounter.



and alternating voltage? Alternating doesn't seem like that good a term
either.  To me it suggests some sort of square wave switching very rapidly
between one extreme and another, not a nice lazy sine wave which is the
normally accepted meaning.


Likewise, alternating means "alternating direction".



Given the normal usage that has evolved for the terms DC and AC rather than
their dictionary definitions, I would suggest that the current that gets
passed by a rectifier has both a DC component and an AC component.  When


It does not, due to unidirectionality.


this mixture is fed into a transformer primary as in this case, the DC
component does not pass through from the primary to the secondary but the
AC component does.  Transformers only work on AC, right?

Or maybe it could equally be said that a transformer can be used to convert
pulsed DC to AC?
...
Regards,
Peter Coghlan.


Sent from my DEC Alphaserver 800

Wayne S wrote:


“ The ripple on the rectified 5V and 12V supplies gets transformed into an
isolated AC source for the 9V supply.  ”
Shouldn’t that be “pulsed DC” instead of “AC” as rectification
changes AC to DC ?


Sent from my iPhone


On May 11, 2022, at 01:36, Peter Coghlan via cctalk  
wrote:

The ripple on the rectified 5V and 12V supplies gets transformed into an
isolated AC source for the 9V supply.

Re: Different font for second 1 on commodore 1571 drives (and others)

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-05-05 1:43 p.m., John Robertson via cctalk wrote:

On 2022/05/05 10:26 a.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

On 2022-05-05 1:03 p.m., John Herron via cctalk wrote:
Someone at work pointed this out and I've never really thought about 
it. Is
anyone here aware of the decision or reason to use a different 1 
character

for the last 1 vs the first 1?


Got a picture?


They may have run out of that original font if they were setting the 
type with something like Lettraset in the day.


An easy contemporary solution to that would have been to use a process 
camera and make a copy.


However, based on this picture: 
http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/c64/h/diskf.jpg , there *is* a good 
typographic reason to cut the serif off the second '1'; if you didn't, 
it would look ridiculous. The typographer's rule is, "If it _looks_ 
right, it _is_ right," and the decal as shipped looks fine, 
typographically. We make these slight "adjustments" all the time, it's a 
big part of the job (especially for logos) - and reveals that a 
professional was involved. Usually people don't even notice them, 
because that's the other rule of typography.


--Toby




I restore and sell the first coin operated video game - Nutting's 
Computer Space - and they mixed all sorts of fonts on the control panel. 
It was a pain to reproduce it!


John :-#)#

Re: Different font for second 1 on commodore 1571 drives (and others)

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-05-05 1:03 p.m., John Herron via cctalk wrote:

Someone at work pointed this out and I've never really thought about it. Is
anyone here aware of the decision or reason to use a different 1 character
for the last 1 vs the first 1?


Got a picture?

Re: Slashed letter O, unslashed letter zero

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-04-27 2:54 p.m., ben via cctalk wrote:

 >
 > Cut and paste.  Consider the S/360 Assembler (F) manual:
 >
 > 
http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/asm/C26-3756-2_Assembler_F_Programmers_Guide_196711.pdf 


 >
 > Look at PDF page 10.   Note the box at the bottom of the page and how
 > it's not even perfectly horizontal at the borders.  In fact, it looks to
 > be hand-drawn.  I suspect that things were put together the old
 > way--with scissors and rubber cement.

I was reading this one. Can't tell if hand drawn or not.
http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/360/asm/C28-6595-1_Assembler_E_Programmers_Guide_1966.pdf 




All the diagrams apart from the ASCII art are hand-drawn (e.g. pages 14, 
19) - i.e. technical pens, rulers, T-squares, drawing board. With some 
paste-up for the Futura typesetting. And probably reduced from a larger 
drawing, by process camera to bromide at the correct size for these 
pages, and then pasted down as a 'mechanical' (as described by Paul).


As it happens I've recently been scanning some documents from this S/360 
documentation series...


--T


Ben.

Re: Slashed letter O, unslashed letter zero

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-04-27 9:14 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:


...
Re OCR-B: the difference between zero and O in that font is small enough that 
contemporary OCR could not reliably tell the two apart.  This is documented in detail in 
"Travels in Computerland" by Ben R. Schneider, a book about his project to 
digitize a multi-volume printed document in the early 1970s.  It involved having it typed 
(in Hong Kong I think) using OCR-B type balls, and when they ran into the OCR issue it 
was worked around by modifying the type balls to give one of the two characters a cut in 
the left side, making it like a reversed C.  OCR sure has come a long way since then.


Since OCR-B has been mentioned people might be interested in this paper 
on its development:


http://www.telegraphics.com.au/doc/scarrott.html

--Toby




Yes, OCR-A is extremely ugly; Schneider actually considered it before 
dismissing it, on the grounds its letter forms are so bad that proofreaders 
trying to check the as-typed material would have a hard time dealing with it 
and quality would suffer as a result.

paul

Re: UNIBUS powoer on/off spec

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-04-06 9:27 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:




On Apr 6, 2022, at 9:20 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk  
wrote:

...
I have been told that at one point Google was 'downgrading' results that used
plain HTTP, instead of HTTPS, because they were trying to push people to
switch to HTTPS (this was when everyone was hyperventilating over the Snowden
revelations). Given the near-ubiquitous use of HTTPS these days, I'd have
thought that piece of 'information credit engineering' by our tech overlords
was past its 'sell by' date, and now serves primarily to block people from
finding the material they are looking for (as here).


That's a classic example of a rule invented by people who can't think.  In 
fact, HTTP is perfectly fine for sites that arenot conducting web-based 
business activity.  Blogs are a good example, and I know at least one that runs 
HTTP for the simple reason that nothing else is needed.   Bitsavers is another 
example; nothing would be gained by adding all the overhead inflicted by HTTPS.


That's true IF you don't care about malicious content being injected 
into the material you're loading over http. "Protecting credit card 
numbers" is not the only thing encryption is good for.


Whsh and now watch this become the first 400 post off topic thread 
of 2022...




paul

Re: FTGH: DEC Networks & Comm Buyer's Guide, Letterprinter 210/LA50 manuals

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-03-28 6:34 p.m., Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

On 3/27/22 8:50 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,


Hi Toby,


Digital Networks & Communications Buyer's Guide 1987 April-June


Can I get a bit more of a description as to what might be in that document?

I've got an (unhealthy) interest in old networking equipment and might 
be interested in it.






Sorry, I should have updated the thread -- the document itself has been 
claimed.


I snapped the TOC though: https://imgur.com/a/iB81d3U

Not sure if it is on Bitsavers.


--Toby

FTGH: DEC Networks & Comm Buyer's Guide, Letterprinter 210/LA50 manuals

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,



Digital
Networks & Communications Buyer's Guide
1987 April-June

Also some DEC Letterprinter 210 and LA50 Printer manuals, ask for a list.


For postage from Toronto Canada.

--Toby

Re: PDP 11/24 - A Step Backwards

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-03-26 5:20 p.m., Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:

I had the H7140 PSU in my PDP 11/24 repaired a little while ago and I posted
about it here: https://robs-old-computers.com/2022/02/10/pdp-11-24-progress/

I have since had the PSU fixed again and it came back a couple of weeks ago.
When I installed it and applied power to the input, I heard a reassuring
relay click.

So I powered it on. The fans turned, but there was a crackle and I smelt
something burning. I couldn't locate the smell, there were no lights on the
CPU board, but the fans continued to turn.

I had to leave it a few days and today I went back to it to check things a
bit more carefully. All the power outputs of the PSU appear nominal.
However, the ripple seems quite high, with an amplitude of 600mV on the +5V
output: https://rjarratt.files.wordpress.com/2022/03/pin-1-5v-ripple.jpg.

The DC ON light comes on, but the M7133 CPU LEDs show no activity
whatsoever.

There is no apparent damage to the CPU or to the M7134 that was also
installed. So, I guess the component that blew up must be inside the PSU.
Presumably, whatever the part is, it is stopping the CPU working, because


I think the next step would be to inspect the PSU and see if the ripple 
can be eliminated, perhaps by replacing whatever blew up :)


--T


previously the CPU did appear to show some activity, although of course it
could still be a failure on the CPU. I am not sure what other outputs the
CPU might depend on. There is the LTC signal for the line time clock, but I
don't know if its absence would stop the CPU working. I have not been able
to test the LTC signal as yet.

Can anyone suggest what else the CPU might need? Or is it LTC?

  


Regards

  


Rob

Re: DEC H500 Digital Computer Lab

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-03-11 8:03 a.m., Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:

...
P.S. Is there some problem with the mailing list? The few "non-test"
messages I get are often out of context.


Open secret -- There's something wrong with every mailing list...

Re: VAX 780 on eBay

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-01-03 2:37 p.m., Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:

Hit Compile?

In my first job, it was triggered by the EOJ card!




You had a COMPILER?

As far as I can see, these days the state of the art is to crash at 
runtime for as many different stupid reasons as possible.


--T
(get off my lawn!)


Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
Skype:  tilbury2591nw.john...@ieee.org



On 2022-01-03 13:47, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

On 2022-01-03 13:19, Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:


Compiling all the code for our product took the 11/750 6 hours to
compile and link plus an additional 2 hours for an 11/730 to link
under a different version of VMS.  8 hours total to rebuild totally
from source.  Some things about the good old days weren't so good.


Disagree here ;-)
Before you hit compile, you switched your brain on, and thought for a 
while what you did.


When I watch this kids in the office now pressing compile after each 
character they typed, 

Re: VAX 780 on eBay

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-01-02 9:33 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:

Microvax 2 is .9 vup.



Oops, Zane vupped up.


C

On January 2, 2022 9:10:39 PM EST, Grant Taylor via cctalk 
 wrote:

On 1/2/22 6:18 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

VAX-11/780 = 1 VUP
VAX-11/782 = 1.8 VUP
MicroVAX 1 = 0.3 VUP
MicroVAX 2 = 0.7 VUP


Thank you Zane.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

11/785 on ebay (2018) - was Re: VAX 780 on eBay

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2022-01-02 2:48 p.m., Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:

 > From: Jonathan Chapman

 > Last one that went auction-style on eBay went for $1,178.00

When was that?

Do you have any details of the machine's config?

That's a pretty good deal for a 780 (IMO).


Someone I know won a '785, Feb 10, 2018, but it went for $1,000 (they 
bid $1,178.50).


https://i.imgur.com/wRV28mj.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Nh60Wwh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OjQWk55.jpg




Noel

FTGH: PDP-11 Software Source Book, 3rd Ed

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

2 volumes, Applications and System. See:  https://imgur.com/a/ISXGK5N

FTGH for postage from Toronto, Canada

--Toby

Re: Women of Computing

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-12-04 2:55 p.m., Chris Long via cctalk wrote:

On the contrary I consider it implicit that they played an equal role - and the 
need to make toys to indicate it is somewhat sad.



False. Women still do not play 'an equal role' in STEM today, and did 
not in the 20th C either. Have you ever reflected on why not? It is a 
systemic issue that has been well studied and documented, and most 
relevantly, described by women.



-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Brielle via cctalk
Sent: 04 December 2021 19:53
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: Re: Women of Computing

Using the term ‘woke’ these days is a great way to render any point you are 
trying to make moot.  Great way to make people people not take you seriously.

He may as well have just come out and said, “It triggers me and I don’t like 
having to acknowledge that women exist in the field of computer history.”

— Brie


On Dec 4, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Jason Howe via cctalk  
wrote:

I'm curious what your definition of 'woke' is, because it seems grossly 
misapplied in this instance.

--Jason



On 12/4/21 10:20, Chris Long via cctalk wrote:
Great.not.

Why do we need woke Lego?

Re: Datapoint 2200 on ebay

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-11-29 10:24 a.m., dwight via cctalk wrote:

If it was fully functional, maybe about 48000/20.
Dwight



But have you considered, maybe it's an NFT of a photo of a Datapoint. 
That should make it worth 10 x $48,000 at least.


--T





From: cctalk  on behalf of Chris Zach via cctalk 

Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 11:31 AM
To: Stan Sieler ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
; Stan Sieler via cctalk 
Subject: Re: Datapoint 2200 on ebay

I think it's supposed to be 48.00



On November 28, 2021 2:27:20 PM EST, Stan Sieler via cctalk 
 wrote:

Noticed a Datapoint 2200 on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/275043446827

They're asking $48,000

I want one...but not for that price! :)


--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: The precarious state of classic software and hardware preservation

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-11-21 3:42 p.m., Tapley, Mark B. via cctalk wrote:

On Nov 21, 2021, at 1:39 PM, ben via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:

[EXTERNAL EMAIL]

On 2021-11-21 9:45 a.m., Adam Thornton via cctalk wrote:
On 11/19/21 9:33 PM, Steve Malikoff via cctalk wrote:

And what happens when you wake  up one morning to find 
archive.org is
gone, too?


Fundamentally, eventually we're all going to be indistinguishable
mass-components inside the supermassive black hole that used to be the
Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies anyway.
Smoke 'em while you got 'em.
Adam
Who knows what lay ahead.
-
The Last Question by Isaac Asimov © 1956

The last question was asked for the first time, half in jest, on May 21, 2061, 
at a time when humanity first stepped into the light. The question came about 
as a result of a five dollar bet over highballs, and it happened this way:

Alexander Adell and Bertram Lupov were two of the faithful attendants of 
Multivac. As well as any human beings could, they knew what lay behind the 
cold, clicking, flashing face -- miles and miles of face -- of that giant 
computer. They had at least a vague notion of the general plan of relays and 
circuits that had long since grown past the point where any single human could 
possibly have a firm grasp of the whole.

Multivac was self-adjusting and self-correcting. It had to be, for nothing 
human could adjust and correct it quickly enough or even adequately enough -- 
so Adell and Lupov attended the monstrous giant only lightly and superficially, 
yet as well as any men could. They fed it data, adjusted questions to its needs 
and translated the answers that were issued...
——

https://www.physics.princeton.edu/ph115/LQ.pdf

I actually remembered the ending of that story without looking. If you don’t, 
it is worth a read.




Everyone remembers it. It's "41"

Re: FTGH: FH disk drives (and one HH) - Toronto

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-30 2:14 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

On 2021-10-30 1:14 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

Located in Toronto Canada, for shipping cost only:

- 3 x Hitachi DK516-15


^^ Hitachis are spoken for.


- 2 x Computer Memories Inc (CMI) 6426-S
- Microscience HH-1060 (half height; marked bad)
- Tandon TM-502


^^ These drives are still available... You know you want 'em!

--Toby




Unknown working condition, but have been stored well.



(As a rough estimate, shipping 2 FH drives to west coast USA from here 
is about USD $60.)


--Toby




First come, first served, etc.

--Toby

Re: IEEE-488 on the PDP-11

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-11-16 1:25 p.m., Glen Slick via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 9:23 AM Douglas Taylor via cctalk
 wrote:


I'm going by the 'Instrument Bus Subroutines Programmer's Reference
Manual' that is on bitsavers. [/pdf/dec/pdp11/minc]  In section 4, page
4-1 it seems to imply that there are 6 files:

IBLIB.OBJ
IBSVER.FOR
IBMNC.SYS
IBNMNC.SYS
IBXMNC.SYS
IBXNMC.SYS

I think that's it.  *.OBJ is a library to link to, *.FOR is a test
program, *.SYS are device drivers for MINC and ordinary PDP-11 SJ, FB
and XM monitors.  It probably is on it's own disk (RX01 RX02?)

Doug


I have an original DEC RX01 floppy labeled:

AS-H300E-BC
INSTMT BUS SUB V2.1 BIN RX1
(c) 1983 Digital Equipment Corporation

I have an image I created from that floppy which I can mount using
PUTR, and then access the files on the floppy image:




Hi Glen,

Can you make the image available?

Thanks
--Toby

COGNOS box

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi all

Trying to get rid of some boxes of ephemera, including this one:

  https://imgur.com/a/dm1vR

Note that the software media is not included.

Location: Toronto Canada

--Toby

Re: FTGH: FH disk drives (and one HH) - Toronto + Scotch DC 300XL tapes

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-30 10:30 p.m., Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk wrote:

Toby, will those 300XL tapes move the tape if you turn the capstan?  I
got my drive working but when I tried to see if the tapes would read,
the rubber band that moves the tape just shattered due to age.

Try turning the wheel with your finger and see if it moves the tape, if
it does i would like them.



Yes, both turn. I guess they're yours; I can post them to you.

--Toby


Cheers,

Nigel


On 2021-10-30 10:28 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

On 2021-10-30 1:14 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

Located in Toronto Canada, for shipping cost only:

- 3 x Hitachi DK516-15
- 2 x Computer Memories Inc (CMI) 6426-S
- Microscience HH-1060 (half height; marked bad)
- Tandon TM-502

Unknown working condition, but have been stored well.

First come, first served, etc.

--Toby


Also: 2 x Scotch DC 300XL tape cartridges, good condition.

--Toby

Re: FTGH: FH disk drives (and one HH) - Toronto + Scotch DC 300XL tapes

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-30 1:14 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

Located in Toronto Canada, for shipping cost only:

- 3 x Hitachi DK516-15
- 2 x Computer Memories Inc (CMI) 6426-S
- Microscience HH-1060 (half height; marked bad)
- Tandon TM-502

Unknown working condition, but have been stored well.

First come, first served, etc.

--Toby


Also: 2 x Scotch DC 300XL tape cartridges, good condition.

--Toby

Re: FTGH: FH disk drives (and one HH) - Toronto

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-30 1:14 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

Located in Toronto Canada, for shipping cost only:

- 3 x Hitachi DK516-15


^^ Hitachis are spoken for.


- 2 x Computer Memories Inc (CMI) 6426-S
- Microscience HH-1060 (half height; marked bad)
- Tandon TM-502

Unknown working condition, but have been stored well.



(As a rough estimate, shipping 2 FH drives to west coast USA from here 
is about USD $60.)


--Toby




First come, first served, etc.

--Toby

FTGH: FH disk drives (and one HH) - Toronto

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

Located in Toronto Canada, for shipping cost only:

- 3 x Hitachi DK516-15
- 2 x Computer Memories Inc (CMI) 6426-S
- Microscience HH-1060 (half height; marked bad)
- Tandon TM-502

Unknown working condition, but have been stored well.

First come, first served, etc.

--Toby

Re: Sun-2 and Sun-3 mice (eBay)

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-26 2:23 p.m., Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

On Oct 26, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Paul Koning  wrote:





On Oct 26, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk  
wrote:

On Oct 26, 2021, at 7:45 AM, Ethan Dicks via cctalk  
wrote:


On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 2:43 AM r.stricklin via cctech
 wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/sch/xi_jinping/m.html?item=334195034340&hash=item4dcf9388e4%3Ag%3Ar%7EcAAOSwFVhhd12t&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Hadn't realized before that there were Sun-2 mice which weren't black (were 
white/beige). I know some folks are looking.


I am in need of a Sun3 mouse but that one looks like it got pulled out
from under the porch.

-etha


It doesn’t really look any worse than the “hockey puck” mouse that’s now on my 
VAXstation 4000/90 did, before I cleaned it up.  Not sure where I got that 
mouse from, I’ve probably had it for 20+ years, especially given where I found 
it a few months ago, when I went looking for one.  It was disgusting enough 
that I didn’t really want to touch it.  The cleaner mouse didn’t work.


FWIW: I don't know what the brown color comes from in this case, but I've in 
the past cleaned up some electronics that was badly encrusted with tobacco 
smoke residue.  A very effective cleaner for that is Windex, which is also 
quite mild and unlikely to harm any plastics.  At an earlier time I used 
alcohol, which worked too but badly messed up a plexiglass display cover on the 
device in question.  Plexiglass is odd that way, it's one of the few plastics 
that is damaged by ethanol.

paul


That’s good to know, as Isopropyl Alcohol is my go-to for cleaning electronics.


I found to my chagrin that it can also take off some silk-screening.

--Toby




Zane

Re: FTGH (-Shipping): Assorted 9 track tape media

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-17 11:09 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,

I'd like to find homes for:

   22 x 11" reels
   5 x 9"
   2 x 7"

Most rated up to 6250bpi, a handful to 3200bpi. Some CONTROL DATA 
branded, rest mixed brands. All in decent condition.


Located: Toronto Canada, will post for cost of shipping by Canada Post 
(reimbursed PayPal). First come, first served, etc.


--Toby


These have all been claimed now. If anyone wants more: See Diane's post 
today :):)


--Toby

Re: FTGH (-Shipping): Assorted 9 track tape media

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-10-17 11:22 p.m., Grant Taylor via cctalk wrote:

On 10/17/21 9:09 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:

Hi,


Hi,


I'd like to find homes for:

   22 x 11" reels
   5 x 9"
   2 x 7"

Most rated up to 6250bpi, a handful to 3200bpi. Some CONTROL DATA 
branded, rest mixed brands. All in decent condition.


Is there anything on them that might be worth archiving?  I'd chip in on 
shipping to someone who could archive the contents if need be.






Nothing looks obviously like a software distribution or anything 
particularly interesting.


--Toby

FTGH (-Shipping): Assorted 9 track tape media

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

I'd like to find homes for:

  22 x 11" reels
  5 x 9"
  2 x 7"

Most rated up to 6250bpi, a handful to 3200bpi. Some CONTROL DATA 
branded, rest mixed brands. All in decent condition.


Located: Toronto Canada, will post for cost of shipping by Canada Post 
(reimbursed PayPal). First come, first served, etc.


--Toby

Re: Linux and the 'clssic' computing world

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-09-27 11:46 p.m., ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2021-09-27 3:15 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:
>> On 2021-09-27 10:07, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote (in part):
>>>
>>> However, much of the "Linux" software is in fact POSIX software, and
>>> can quite easily be ported between Linux and other *NIX-likes, such
>>> as Solaris, macOS and the *BSD family.
>>
>> I cannot agree.  Many developers ensure that their software runs under
>> their particular distribution and then call it POSIX. Porting to UNIX
>> systems, such as Solaris or macOS, can be difficult and tedious.  (Of
>> course, this is not a Linux issue.)
>>
>> N.
> 
> POSIX requires a byte to be exactly 8 bits I read somewhere.
> C99 C standard?
> Great for ARM and INTEL, not so great for the 36 bit computers.

We've been through this before. No.

> Ben.

Re: More cleaning out the Bob basement

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-09-18 9:39 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
> I did finally dump the first wife.  The second one is just too good to
> dump.
> 

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/64153952.jpg



> On 9/18/2021 8:36 PM, Alexandre Souza wrote:
>> I'd dump the wife...
>>
>> Enviado do meu Tele-Movel
>>
>> Em sáb, 18 de set de 2021 22:33, Mike Katz via cctalk
>> mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> escreveu:
>>
>>     I have a basement but I also have a wife who complains everytime I
>>     bring
>>     some orphaned computer part (or camera) home and to the basement.  In
>>     her eyes it's all junk.
>>
>>     Which is worse, no basement or a wife 😁
>>
>>     It was because of my first wife (now ex) that I sold my 2 full
>>     racks of
>>     PDP-8/E equipment.
>>
>>     On 9/18/2021 3:40 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>>     >
>>     >> On Sep 18, 2021, at 1:01 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk
>>     mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >> Went over to chip away at the Bob basement, and this time Alex
>>     came with me. This is not a bad idea as if one of the piles shift
>>     and I get stuck it would be nice to have someone there to call 911.
>>     > You might be joking, but this is no joke, it’s a *VERY* good
>>     idea.  Back when my collection was in storage units, I took a
>>     large vintage TV to the head.  Thankfully I was okay, but it could
>>     have been much worse.  After that I started being more cautious.
>>     >
>>     >> Moral: Do not die with a lot of this stuff in your basement. We
>>     were far more able to move this stuff 30 years ago when we were
>>     young than today.
>>     > Good point.  I was reminded of this a few months ago, while I
>>     was working some of my old gear while on my Sabbatical.  The good
>>     news, I don’t have a basement. :-)
>>     >
>>     > Zane
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>
> 

Re: [FTGH] DEC Professional magazine, 32 issues, 1988-1990

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-09-14 6:30 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> If anyone is interested, these are available for cost of postage from
> Toronto Canada. I will post selected sets but if someone wants the lot,
> be quick. First come, first served...
> 
> https://imgur.com/MggLbvQ
> 
> --Toby
> 


These have been claimed. All are going to a particularly good home.

--Toby

[FTGH] DEC Professional magazine, 32 issues, 1988-1990

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

If anyone is interested, these are available for cost of postage from
Toronto Canada. I will post selected sets but if someone wants the lot,
be quick. First come, first served...

https://imgur.com/MggLbvQ

--Toby

Re: Extremely CISC instructions- C compilers.

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-08-25 3:23 p.m., Van Snyder via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-08-25 at 14:58 -0400, Todd Goodman via cctalk wrote:
>> P.110 of https://walden-family.com/bbn/bbn-print2.pdf has some slight
>> information.
>>
>> It was advertised by Bolt, Beranek and Newman as the first computer
>> to 
>> be designed around the C language.
> 
> This says the computer was introduced "a year later" (i.e., a year
> after March 1980).
> 
> AT&T had 3B20 computers in service in the 1970's.
> 
> Were they "designed around the C language" or was the C language shoe-
> horned into them?

During the 1980s many processors used this marketing claim, including
Fairchild Clipper. Some may have even tried.

> 
> The C language appears to have been designed as a high-level assembler
> for machines like the PDP-11, which first appeared ca 1970. At least
> that's what the Wikipedioa article about the B language appears to say.
> 

Re: Extremely CISC instructions

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-08-25 2:17 p.m., Patrick Finnegan via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 2:07 PM ben via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> All rendered useless if you move to gray or color. Sadly almost
>> all monitors are landscape rather than portrait, so we may never see
>> a good emulation of them.
>>
> 
> Landscape monitors work fine as portrait for me when I turn them on their
> side.
> 
> Pat
> 

You can't do that!! The electrons leak out

Re: Extremely CISC instructions

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-08-25 11:49 a.m., ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 2021-08-25 1:25 a.m., Eric Smith via cctalk wrote:
>>
>> 432 GDP instructions were bit-aligned in an instruction object, and
>> occupied anywhere from 6 to 344 bits.
> 
> Did not the IBM 7030 try a similar idea.
> All this work to replace a punched card.
> Funny how records where simple on decimal computers
> and are mess on binary ones.
> 
>> Although there are many reasons for the failures of both the 432 and the
>> P7/BiiN processor, one they had in common was that their advanced
>> architectural features were especially suited to high level languages,
>> such
>> as Ada, and very poorly suited to low level languages, such as C. As
>> everyone knows, the world chose to standardize on C. The P7, and later
>> the
>> i960, could run C code perfectly well, but C code couldn't easily take
>> advantage of the advanced architectural capabilities of the P7/BiiN
>> processor.
>>
> 
> C uses cheap tricks for speed. 8 bit bytes, 32 bit integers, taken from

That is not how C defines bytes or ints, fyi.

> B. I have 21 bit CPU, with 3 7 bit bytes/word. Algol would have a
> PACK/UPACK function, and be fairly portable. C on the other hand a mess.
> Ok. I don't have 21 bit cpu, but I have this spare FPGA card ...
> 
>> world chose to standardize on C.
> More like the same 32 bit/ 8 bit bytes vanilla cpu, with push and pop
> on the stack. Can't have near/far pointers with some intel products
> so we need new standard for the non PDP/11 or VAX computers, and again
> and again...
> 
> Ben.
> 

Re: Sourcing Capacitors for my H7140 PSU

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-07-23 12:48 p.m., Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> I gave up trying to repair this PSU myself and I have got someone to do it
> professionally. It seems they have it working well but think that two
> capacitors should still be replaced. I think these are the two big "Coke
> Can" sized filter capacitors. The trouble is they seem to be unable to find
> any. The spec for them is 4500uf 200v DxH 76mm x 145mm Qty. 2.
> 
>  
> 
> Anyone know where to find such monsters? In the UK ideally. I have looked on
> Farnell, Digikey and Mouser. It all seems to be special order, minimum
> quantity, long lead time etc.
> 

Any reason you can't use the results of this search at Digikey?

https://www.digikey.ca/short/v73h57hh

Cheapest is CAD $40.33 and generally screw mount. I've filtered to three
reputable brands.

--Toby


>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  
> 
> Rob
> 
>  
> 

Re: DEC PDP-8/e H212 core mat repair

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-07-19 6:06 p.m., Rod Smallwood via cctalk wrote:
> 
> Yes most core stringing was outsourced.
> 

There's more detail on early core production in the book "IBM's Early
Computers", iirc. (And possibly "A Few Good Men From Univac".)


> ...
> Rod Smallwood   -- Digital Equipment Corporation  1975 to 1985
> 
> 
> On 19/07/2021 22:50, Jules Richardson via cctalk wrote:
>> On 7/19/21 3:40 AM, Joshua Rice via cctalk wrote:
>>> I believe much of the core manufacturing for DEC minicomputers was
>>> outsourced, but a lot of it had become much more automated by the
>>> late 60's and early 70's.
>>
>> I've got a trio of planes here, two of which are from a Lockheed
>> MAC-16, but the other one is made by Keronix out of Santa Monica for
>> an unknown machine (dated 1973, model number "P4" and p/n 816335 if
>> that means anything to anyone, approx 16"x16" with two 100-pin,
>> double-sided finger edge connectors on 0.1" spacing).
>>
>> Anyhoo, the Keronix one has a sticker on it saying it was repaired by
>> DMA, inc. in Amery, WI in 1980 - which might suggest that there were
>> third parties around working on boards, rather than them having to go
>> back to the manufacturer for repair. (I have no idea what the nature
>> of the repair was, of course; maybe it was to surrounding logic rather
>> than the mat itself).
>>
>>> It's worth noting that most computer manufacturers appreciated the
>>> fragility of core memory planes at the time, with most of them being
>>> protected with either PCB's or perspex/plastic shields on top of the
>>> core planes.
>>
>> Yes, that's how all the ones I've ever seen have been. The Keronix one
>> has an additional shield over the top of the entire PCB, on top of the
>> one protecting the cores.
>>
>> Jules

Re: Writings on AI from 17 years ago....

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-07-16 9:03 a.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jul 16, 2021, at 3:52 AM, Lars Brinkhoff via cctalk 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> ...
>> https://wiki.livingcomputers.org/
> 
> That produces a page load error.
> 
>   paul
> 

Loaded correctly for me.

--Toby

Re: Early Programming Books

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-06-20 10:06 p.m., ben via cctech wrote:
> On 2021-06-20 6:57 a.m., Toby Thain via cctech wrote:
>> On 2021-06-20 1:39 p.m., Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:
>>> Dave;
>>>
>>> I'm much more curious about programming books that were *not* machine
>>> specific.
>>> That is, about "general principles" of designing/preparing software for
>>> execution.
>>
>> Not sure if it's what you are looking for, but if you haven't, check out
>> "Classic Operating Systems" by Per Brinch Hansen.
>>
>>>
>>> Of course, one needs a language; McCracken (1957) defines TYDAC.
>>> Much later (1968) Knuth defines MIX.
>>>
>>> In between perhaps one could argue that ALGOL 58 qualifies as such a
>>> language-for-demonstration, but I don't believe that there were any
>>> books
>>> specifically about programming in ALGOL 58.  I presume that there were
>>> eventually such books for ALGOL 60.
>>
>> Pretty sure I own one, by Dijkstra. Will get details later if you are
>> interested.
>>
>> --Toby
> 
> I suspect after 1958 people stopped thinking of real world programming
> problems. All the general programming books, seem to want to get rid of
> the "goto" or have Strange-multi-level variables or procedures or just

Structured Programming is even manifested in a language as neckbeardy as
C; it's not only for quiche eaters any more.

> use unbounded memory. Operating system books have chapters about some
> logic construct only to state later in the book, "That does not apply
> to this system setup".
> My latest gripe, is I still am looking for a algorithm to generate
> code for a single accumulator machine for an arithmetic expression.

Tried the Shunting Yard algorithm? But watch out, it was invented by a
quiche eater...

> Parenthesis need to evaluated first and temporary variables allotted,
> thus a two pass algorithm. Everything is single pass. Recursive decent
> can parse but can't generate 'correct' code. A-(B+C) is LD B ADD C ST T1
> LD A SUB T1, not LD A ST T1 LD B ST T2 LD C ADD T2 NEGATE ADD T1
> Ben.
> 
> 
> 

Re: Early Programming Books

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-06-20 1:39 p.m., Paul Birkel via cctech wrote:
> Dave;
> 
> I'm much more curious about programming books that were *not* machine
> specific.
> That is, about "general principles" of designing/preparing software for
> execution.

Not sure if it's what you are looking for, but if you haven't, check out
"Classic Operating Systems" by Per Brinch Hansen.

> 
> Of course, one needs a language; McCracken (1957) defines TYDAC.
> Much later (1968) Knuth defines MIX.
> 
> In between perhaps one could argue that ALGOL 58 qualifies as such a
> language-for-demonstration, but I don't believe that there were any books
> specifically about programming in ALGOL 58.  I presume that there were
> eventually such books for ALGOL 60.

Pretty sure I own one, by Dijkstra. Will get details later if you are
interested.

--Toby

> 
> Then there's FORTRAN, in which context I first encountered McCracken (1961:
> Guide to FORTRAN Programming).
> 
> Obviously my first example was EDSAC-centric.  And yours is specific to the
> Manchester MK1.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: dave.g4...@gmail.com [mailto:dave.g4...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2021 6:57 AM
> To: 'Paul Birkel'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts'
> Subject: RE: Early Programming Books
> 
> Paul,
> What about machine specific manuals, so for example the Manchester MK1
> programming manual, the second edition of which is archived here:-
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20090526192456/http://www.computer50.org/kgill/m
> ark1/progman.html 
> 
> In fact I expect that first book refers specifically to EDSAC, so is in
> effect machine specific. There must have been similar manuals for other
> machines?
> 
> I know there is a Ferranti Pegasus Programming manual, the copy I have is
> dated 1962 but as the last Pegasus was produced in 1959 there must have been
> earlier editions.
> 
> Dave
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctech  On Behalf Of Paul Birkel via
>> cctech
>> Sent: 20 June 2021 09:44
>> To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic Posts' 
>> Subject: Early Programming Books
>>
>> I know of two early computer (in the stored program sense) programming
>> books.
>>
>> 1951: Preparation of Programs for an Electronic Digital Computer
> (Wilkes, Wheeler, & Gill)
>> 1957: Digital Computer Programming (McCracken)
>>
>> What others were published prior to the McCracken text?
>>
>> Excluded are lecture compendia and symposia proceedings, such as:
>>
>> 1946: Moore School Lectures
>> 1947: Proceedings of a Symposium on Large-Scale Digital Calculating
> Machinery
>> 1951: Proceedings of a Second Symposium on Large-Scale Digital
> Calculating Machinery
>> 1953: Faster Than Thought, A Symposium On Digital Computing Machines
>>
>> These were principally about designs for, and experience with, new
> hardware.
>>
>> I'm curious about texts specifically focused on the act of programming.
>> Were there others prior to McCracken?
>>
>> paul
> 
> 

Re: Massbus - was: Re: VAX 11/750

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-02-26 9:40 a.m., Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
> Toby Thain wrote:
>> Rich Alderson wrote:
>>> You could ask our friends Keith Perez (Massbus Disk Emulator v1) and
>>> Bruce Sherry (MDE v2) about it, or even ask me.  ...  produced, and
>>> we had to do something.  My brilliant friend Keith sat down with a
>>> logic analyzer and an RP06 attached to a KL-10, and proceeded to
>>> spend the next two years (when not called on for other projects)
>>> creating a disk emulator. ...
>>>
>>> Later, Bruce came on board as the museum was ramping up, and redid
>>> the design in a Xilinx chip with VHDL. ...
>>
>> Are the above projects published?
> 
> See here:
> 
> https://github.com/livingcomputermuseum?tab=repositories
> 


Very nice, thanks.

--T

Re: Massbus - was: Re: VAX 11/750

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-02-25 8:55 p.m., Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
> ...
> Hey, Josh!  You could ask our friends Keith Perez (Massbus Disk Emulator v1)
> and Bruce Sherry (MDE v2) about it, or even ask me.
> ...
> produced, and we had to do something.  My brilliant friend Keith sat down with
> a logic analyzer and an RP06 attached to a KL-10, and proceeded to spend the
> next two years (when not called on for other projects) creating a disk
> emulator. ...
> 
> Later, Bruce came on board as the museum was ramping up, and redid the design
> in a Xilinx chip with VHDL. ...

Are the above projects published?

--Toby

> 
> As for operating system support,...
> 
> Rich
> 
> P.S. We're about 10 days from the 1st anniversary of the closing of LCM+L to
>  the public.  Lift a pint in memory of the most fun we ever had standing 
> up.
> 

Re: Flip-Chip selloff (Al Kossow)

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-02-03 5:36 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Why don't we just use bitcoin?


Thanks for the belly laugh

Re: APL\360

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-01-15 1:33 p.m., Nemo Nusquam via cctalk wrote:
> As a grad student, I still remember the row of APL terminals at the
> computer centre with their APL-specific keyboards, always ruing that I
> had no time to learn it.

Seems backwards when students have no time to learn things. Just sayin

--T

Re: personal history of personal computers

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2021-01-04 4:38 p.m., Mike Loewen via cctalk wrote:
> 
>    Andy Molloy had a Canon Cat at VCF East in 2006. Unfortunately, it
> smoked.
> 
> http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/VCF-East2006/dscn4151-f.jpg
> 

... there's one on ebay now FWIW.

--Toby

Re: Dec ultrix 32 reference books for sale

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-11-05 11:28 a.m., devin davison via cctalk wrote:
> I have a bankers box worth of dec ultrix 32 reference manuals in grey dec
> binders. Im looking to sell the box of books for a few $ plus the cost of
> shipping.
> 
> Hoping to find these books a good home.
> 
> --Devin D.

Please indicate location.

--Toby

FTGH: 3 VAX DATATRIEVE binders

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

Offered these in a post last year.

1) VAX DATATRIEVE Reference manual AA-K079E-TE
(this is online but version KE079G?)

2) VAX DATATRIEVE Handbook AA-W675B-TE
(Does not seem to be online? Willing to scan)

3) VAX DATATRIEVE Guide to Writing Reports AA-P862C-TE
For Datatrieve version 4.1
Versions online seem to be for version 3.0?
Willing to scan




Very clean condition: https://imgur.com/a/w9a3YEY

Can post for shipping cost from Toronto ON, Canada.

--Toby

Re: DG Nova panel font?

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-10-30 10:40 p.m., geneb via cctalk wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, jw...@classiccmp.org wrote:
> 
>> Gene:
>>> Nova 3: https://i.imgur.com/w4VI9Wo.jpg
>>
>> Nova 3 : Recognize the mustards but all the bezels I ever saw were
>> white?
> 
> I got nothing for you Jay, sorry. :)  That's how it came to me.
> 
> btw, sorry for the post - I misread "fonts" as "fronts" and figured
> someone wanted a picture. *laughs*  (Don't get old kids, your eyes go
> first, and then something else I can't remember goes next.)
> 

Well it was damn helpful for the font identification, so ...

--Toby


> g.
> 
> 
> 

Re: DG Nova panel font?

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-10-30 6:02 p.m., geneb via cctalk wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2020, Richard Milward via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> Speaking of DEC fonts, does anyone know what was used on the Data
>> General Nova machines?
>> Thanks!
> 
> Nova 3: https://i.imgur.com/w4VI9Wo.jpg
> 
> g.
> 

Helvetica for the main logo "DATA GENERAL", "NOVA 3" and the button
digits 0-15.

The rest of the captions aren't so easily identifiable ("CARRY", "PR
LOAD", "MEM PAR" etc). They're something else, but quite close to
Univers or Univers Extended.

The yellow engraved stuff on the right metal is whatever font their
engraving machine used, it's not a typesetting font.

--Toby

Re: Font for DEC indicator panels

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2018-11-18 12:44 p.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
> On 2018-11-13 10:21 AM, Noel Chiappa via cctalk wrote:
>> > From: Toby Thain
>>
>> > To get closer I'd need better images of the panels.
>>
>> Hi, I borrowed a DEC inlay from someone (a KA10 CPU bay) and scanned a chunk
>> of it (as much as I could fit into my A4 scanner :-) at 200 dpi:
>>
>>   http://ana-3.lcs.mit.edu/~jnc/tech/jpg/KACPUPanel.jpg
>>
>> I have a TC08 inlay, but it's currently being used in my QSIC display (until
>> we can get the RKV11-F/RPV11-D inlay done :-), and I didn't want to yank it
>> out. As far as I can tell, it's the same font on the two of them.
>>
>>
>> > the closest I know of off the top of my head is Akzidenz Grotesk.
>>
>> The Akzidenz Grotesk Medium is indeed very, very close (other than the zero).
> 
> (And the "Q")
> 
>> Do you happen to know if that font available for use in non-commercial
>> settings?
> 
> I just noticed this free font which is also rather close (has a slashed
> Q, at least):
> 
>   https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/hk-grotesk
> 
> Try the SemiBold weight.

Another non-free font very much in the same genre, that I recently
found, is FF Infra (though I wasn't able to check its lining numerals in
the online tester):

https://www.fontshop.com/families/ff-infra

> 
> --Toby
> 
> 
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>  Noel
>>
> 

Re: Shipping via USPS Los Angeles is STALLED

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-09-30 9:41 a.m., Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
> I have a vintage computer sitting in the LA USPS since 9/17, with no
> further updates.  I have read in the local papers there that the entire
> post office has ground to a halt.  What's going on there?  I have never
> heard of anything like this.  I assume my package will survive but think of
> the zoo there if they've been stacking packages for TWO WEEKS.  I'd
> strongly suggest not attempting to ship anything out of LA for the time
> being.  WOW.
> 
> I know people complain about the post office, I am not complaining, just
> stating the facts.  Normally the USPS is reliable.  They must really have
> overall problems in southern CA due to the fire and related management
> issues.
> 
> BIll
> 


It's under new management, I heard.

Re: ISO Advantech Labtool-148C prgrammer wall wart specs

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-09-16 9:44 a.m., dwight via cctalk wrote:
> One of the small floppy drive power supplies would be good. Too bad Halted is 
> not still active.
> Dwight
> 

Any benched PC PSU, which are thrown in dumpsters by the thousands daily.

> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Al Kossow via 
> cctalk 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2020 5:59 AM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
> Subject: Re: ISO Advantech Labtool-148C prgrammer wall wart specs
> 
> for the archives, the Labtool-148C wall wart is:
> 
> +5V/1.5A ,+12V/1.5A
> 
> it also has one of those funny 1/4" square usb looking connectors with the 
> pins
> arranged in a equilateral triangle
> 
> 

Re: Diloq SQ703 to SQ706 conversion

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-08-16 1:42 p.m., Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:
> Nigel,
> 
> Have you thought about using the MFM emulator from 
> 
> https://www.pdp8.net/mfm/mfm.shtml
> 
> I don't know how well it works with MicroVax...


A friend (in Toronto) is doing a run of these:
https://decromancer.ooo/mfm-emulator.html

There are still 2 for sale at time of writing.

--Toby



> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Nigel Johnson
>> via cctalk
>> Sent: 16 August 2020 16:25
>> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
>> Subject: Diloq SQ703 to SQ706 conversion
>>
>> I'm getting back to trying to restore my MicroVax II.  Existing controllers 
>> are
>> ESDI and MFM, disks hard to find.
>>
>> So I would like to convert a brand-new DQ703 I have to SQ706 so I can mount
>> SCSI disks.
>>
>> I understand it is just  a prom change.
>>
>> Does anybody have any info, or perhaps a PROM image?
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> --
>> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the
>> origin of the open-source concept!
>> Skype:  TILBURY2591 nw.john...@ieee.org
>>
>>
> 
> 

Re: Adventures online

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-07-23 8:59 p.m., dwight via cctalk wrote:
> I would think to be a mainframe, it has to have a I/O processor. That is 
> about all I can think of.
> Dwight
> 


So, a BeagleBone then


> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Grant Taylor via 
> cctalk 
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:06 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org 
> Subject: Re: Adventures online
> 
> On 7/23/20 4:34 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> How about the XT/370?  or XT/360?
>> (I couldn't afford one)
> 
> As the predecessor to the P/390-E, I definitely think that the XT/370 or
> XT/360 is a (baby) mainframe.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
> 

Re: Adventures online

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-07-22 10:52 p.m., Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Just put up a big pdp11 and be done with it. Hm. Running on Simh a fully
> loaded 11 should handle just about anything the internet could toss at
> it...
> 
> C
> 

When you've got that set up, post the link on Slashdot, they love text
adventures.

--Toby

Re: CDC CYBER 170 Consoles

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-07-15 9:18 a.m., Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
> On 2020-07-15 1:51 a.m., Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
>> I have been working on CDC CYBER 170 mainframes between 1977 and 1988. ...
>>
>> For many years I have been trying to find one of these vector drawn CC545
>> consoles to use with my emulator but I haven't been able to find one.
>> Recently I decided to build a clone of it myself. Bitsavers has a hardware
>> manual with schematics:
>>
>>
>> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/cyber/cyber_170/62952600L_CYBER_170_Display_Station_CC545-CDEF_Hardware_Reference_26Mar1979.pdf
>>
>> The CC545 console achieved unusually fast deflection with an
>> electromagnetically deflected CRT. I am trying to understand the tricks
>> they used to get these high speeds. Part of the magic is a dual-yoke which
>> provided gross positioning within 2 microseconds to anywhere on the screen
> 
> Philco READ system (and probably others) did this as well.
> 
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/philco/displays/READ_Theory_And_Operation_Feb65.pdf
> 

Philco was also involved in the design of Carnegie's "Visual Display
System Suitable for Time Shared Use", described by J. Quatse.

It also had a fast vector generator described in that book.

--Toby

> --Toby
> 
> 
>> using the first yoke (this is VERY fast) and then painted the character
>> using a second yoke around that base position with 0.1 microsecond per
>> stroke (this is VERY fast too). The two yokes work in an additive manner.
>> ...
>> Tom Hunter
>>
> 

Re: CDC CYBER 170 Consoles

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-07-15 1:51 a.m., Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
> I have been working on CDC CYBER 170 mainframes between 1977 and 1988. ...
> 
> For many years I have been trying to find one of these vector drawn CC545
> consoles to use with my emulator but I haven't been able to find one.
> Recently I decided to build a clone of it myself. Bitsavers has a hardware
> manual with schematics:
> 
> 
> http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/cdc/cyber/cyber_170/62952600L_CYBER_170_Display_Station_CC545-CDEF_Hardware_Reference_26Mar1979.pdf
> 
> The CC545 console achieved unusually fast deflection with an
> electromagnetically deflected CRT. I am trying to understand the tricks
> they used to get these high speeds. Part of the magic is a dual-yoke which
> provided gross positioning within 2 microseconds to anywhere on the screen

Philco READ system (and probably others) did this as well.

http://www.bitsavers.org/pdf/philco/displays/READ_Theory_And_Operation_Feb65.pdf

--Toby


> using the first yoke (this is VERY fast) and then painted the character
> using a second yoke around that base position with 0.1 microsecond per
> stroke (this is VERY fast too). The two yokes work in an additive manner.
> ...
> Tom Hunter
> 

Re: Small C ver 1.00 source?

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-07-14 11:37 a.m., dwight via cctalk wrote:
> I'm curious as to where the term P-code came from and what defined it.
> Dwight
> 

The first thing that comes to mind is UCSD P-system, but some people
probably mean it to use "any interpreted bytecode".

--Toby


> 
> From: cctalk  on behalf of Antonio Carlini via 
> cctalk 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2020 2:42 AM
> To: cct...@classiccmp.org 
> Subject: Re: Small C ver 1.00 source?
> 
> On 14/07/2020 01:14, Grant Taylor via cctech wrote:
>> On 7/13/20 1:06 PM, Will Cooke via cctech wrote:
>>> Does anyone have any suggestions as to where it should go for
>>> safekeeping?
>>
>> Some combination of Internet Archive, BitKeepers, and TUHS would be my
>> minimum recommendation.
>>
>> As you say, it's small.  It wouldn't be hard to hold on to.
>>
>>
>>
> As it's now known to be on github, then I'd suggest simply cloning the
> existing repo. If the original ever goes away, then you can set up your
> own repo (for free).
> 
> 
> 
> Antonio
> 
> 
> --
> Antonio Carlini
> anto...@acarlini.com
> 

Re: gunkies.org (computer history wiki) domain expired

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-07-03 5:42 a.m., Tor Arntsen via cctalk wrote:
> Registry Expiry Date: 2020-07-03T15:46:18Z
> 
> Anyone in touch with Tore? Noel?
> 


I pinged Tore a few days ago, appears to be back

$ dig +short gunkies.org
158.36.191.230

Re: Future of cctalk/cctech

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-06-19 11:27 p.m., Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> Images take up a lot of space and are best dealt with via links. 
> 
> Which rot over time.
> 
> If you're going to create a permanent archive, you need to archive any
> attachments as well.
> 
> http://www.vcfed.org/forum is a perfect example of messages full of link
> rot.
> 

Yes, we could have learned from the fact that Photobucket and dozens of
other image hosting services chosen arbitrarily by users have
disappeared, leaving forums full of posts without context, often making
them useless.

--Toby

Re: PDP-8/A transformer hum

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-06-09 10:27 a.m., Anders Nelson via cctalk wrote:
> Related question: Is there any reason, other than historical accuracy and
> cost, to not replace the power supplies in vintage computers with modern
> switching power supplies?
> 

3) If it ain't broke, don't fix it

> --
> Anders Nelson
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:19 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>>> On Jun 9, 2020, at 2:59 AM, Josh Dersch via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all --
>>>
>>> I'm working on a PDP-8/A I picked up at VCF West last summer.  After a
>> lot
>>> of cleaning and some power supply repair it's showing signs of life (CPU
>>> seems to be at least minimally functional, core memory is going to need
>>> some debugging.)
>>>
>>> The transformer in the power supply is humming quite loudly, however, and
>>> I'm curious if this is normal for the 8/A (or is typical for an 8/A of
>> this
>>> vintage).  I'm used to the supplies in various other DEC machines not
>> being
>>> exactly silent but this is a rather severe 60Hz buzz that you can clearly
>>> hear over the fans when the machine is in operation.
>>
>> Assuming these are traditional transformers with laminated sheet iron
>> cores, check if the rivets or screws holding the laminations together are
>> loose.  If yes, tighten or replace the fastener.
>>
>> paul
>>
>>

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-29 4:05 PM, Rich Alderson via cctalk wrote:
> Just to make sure everyone knows that we haven't lost our minds:
> 
> Nothing is going in the skip/dumpster/e-waste recycling bin.  It's a long 
> pause, that's all.
> 
> 


After one completely out of the blue move, there will be no further
surprises

There is always exactly one surprise

> 
> 
> Rich Alderson
> ex-Sr. Systems Engineer/Curator emeritus
> Living Computers: Museum + Labs
> 2245 1st Ave S
> Seattle, WA 98134
> 
> Cell: (206) 465-2916
> Desk: (206) 342-2239
> 
> http://www.LivingComputers.org/
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Electronics Plus 
> via cctalk
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 9:00 AM
> 
> 
> I sold a complete Displaywriter system with at least 7 terminals and 
> keyboards, and a 3278 terminal with keyboard to them some years back. I hope 
> those don't wind up in the skip!
> 
> 
> 

Re: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-29 8:20 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote:
> On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 21:40, John Ames  wrote:
> 
>> Agreed. While I'm much more favorably disposed towards C than you are,
>> the increasing homogeneity of almost all modern languages is
>> discouraging ...
> 
> Indeed so.
> 
> And I have had earnest youngsters on Twitter and elsewhere very
> seriously tell me that _no_ language could even theoretically be
> immune to the problems of C, because _all_ languages are implemented
> in C at the lowest level.

You understand that this is absolute rubbish, right?

> 
> There are people in their 40s now, ...
> 

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-28 5:02 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote:
>> You know, in general I don't disagree with this statement, but I'll go on 
>> record here and say that in my 5 years at LCM, I don't recall a single 
>> keycap going missing, or anything getting stolen.
> 
> Good fortune, maybe!
> 
> On another ship I sometime volunteer on (DE-766 SLATER), someone stole
> a piece of silverware from the officer's ward room (the dining room,
> basically)., Yes, just a knife or fork or whatever... but gone
> forever.

If that annoys you, imagine a whole museum going missing overnight.

> 
> --
> Will
> 

Re: Living Computer Museum

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-28 4:14 AM, Dave Wade via cctalk wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Chris Hanson via
>> cctalk
>> Sent: 28 May 2020 04:54
>> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Living Computer Museum
>>
>> On May 27, 2020, at 8:48 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would think that if people you liked got replaced with people who
>>> don't care then you might have a major battle trying to get back stuff
>>> you loaned.
>>
>> It might be a battle, possibly even a major one, but it would be
>> fundamentally winnable when there’s explicitly no transfer of ownership.
>>
>> That may, of course, be why they told Alan they don’t take loans; they may
>> want to not worry about dealing with people who want loaned pieces
>> returned, or dealing with the risk of loss or damage (e.g. insurance), and so
>> on.
>>
>>   -- Chris
> 
> Its a challenge. Most Museums refuse to accept loans. It’s a lot of admin. If 
> the original owner dies what happens.
> Under what terms can it be removed. Value if stolen or damaged? If it is 
> working and it breaks.
> A lot of hassle and risk.


We must certainly not put a very very very very well endowed museum to
any effort in the matter of museuming

After all they might need to suddenly evaporate any moment for any reason


> 
> Dave
> 

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-28 12:01 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 8:43 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
> 
>>> At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
>>> simple information.
>>
>> It's a picture. They can be useful.
> 
> That is why clicking with my mouse did nothing.
> I like if eif else fi  for if statements.
> What keyboard are you using to get the fancy arrows?
> Ben.
> 
> 

The source code is ASCII; the arrows are ligatures in the Fira Code
typeface.

Arrows were also a typographic convention in many books, e.g.

* Hundreds of textbooks using Pascal-ish pseudocode
* the Smalltalk-80 books
* Knuth's literate programs

And many languages define -> and <- tokens, even =>

So it does seem to be a thing people like to see.

--Toby

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-27 9:19 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 5:47 PM, Toby Thain wrote:
>> On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
>>>> relatively modern languages:
>>>>
>>>> https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
>>>
>>> Arg a web page!
>>
>> I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know.
> 
> At the moment I have no wish to fight a web site,to find what should be
> simple information.

It's a picture. They can be useful.

> 
>> But does the list actually support attachments?
> 
> As far as I know it does not. I suspect because of spam and copywrites
> with program code or data.
> 
> Ben.
> 

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-27 6:56 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 2:42 PM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
>> relatively modern languages:
>>
>> https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb
> 
> Arg a web page!

I'm sorry if the sight of a URL is shocking. They are fairly new, I know.

But does the list actually support attachments?


> ...
> 
> Ben.
> 

Re: Algol W [was: Microsoft open sources GWBASIC]

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-27 4:25 PM, ben via cctalk wrote:
> On 5/27/2020 1:45 PM, Paul McJones via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> Gogol is a simple, integer arithmetic language used under the PDP-1
>> time sharing system at Stanford. This memorandum includes the
>> syntactical definition of the language and a number of sample programs
>> as well as a brief description of the operational characteristics of
>> the compiler. Gogol was designed to permit fast compilation of
>> efficient machine code directly into memory. The speed of compilation
>> together with the accessibility of the text editor make program de-
>> bugging relatively rapid. The examples presented here plus the
>> availability of the compiler should form an adequate basis for
>> learning to use the language. More detailed information depends
>> heavily on a knowledge of PDP-1 hardware.
>>
>> https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:jy391jj5758/jy391jj5758.pdf
>>
> Interesting the asignment is -> (arrow) and the right side of
> expression. Ascii dropping the arrow symbol may have messed up a few
> langauges.
> Ben.
> 


It's easily worked around. This is how a lot of people code today in
relatively modern languages:

https://imgur.com/ESMFgNb

--Toby

[Fira Code fwiw]

Re: history is hard

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-24 4:13 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 2:01 PM Toby Thain  <mailto:t...@telegraphics.com.au>> wrote:
> 
> On 2020-05-24 3:20 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
> >
> >
>     > On Sun, May 24, 2020, 11:04 AM Toby Thain via cctalk
> > mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org <mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 2020-05-24 11:17 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> >     > ... IBM was doing
> >     > Virtualization in the 70's.
> >
> >     1968 and probably before.[1]
> >
> >     Most operating systems concepts[2] are much older than people
> think.
> >
> >
> > The topic for my talk next week. Unix had virtualization in 74. The
> > second Unix port ran under OS/360's VM in 78.
> 
> I thought the Interdata port was second?
> 
> 
> Wollongong to the interdata 7/32 was April of 77. Went into production
> July 77.
> Bell Labs to the closely related interdata 8/32 was June of 77. Never
> went into production, but portability fixes plowed back into V7.
> Tom Lyons had his booting to a similar level around May of 77 ("end of
> his junior year"), though he wasn't hired by Amdahl unti the following
> summer and he reports having the full V6 up early in 1979. V7 up later
> in the year when they got it from AT&T.
> 
> I kinda lump the two interdata ports together as 'the first' and I don't
> have good dates for when Tom Lyons booted beyond hello-world, or what
> the benchmark for 'first' should be.

Thanks for the detail! I meant "second after PDP-11" so the confusion
was only an off-by-one error.

--Toby

> 
> Warner
> 
> --T
> 
> >
> > Warner
> >
> >
> >     --T
> >
> >     [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_CP/CMS
> >     [2] e.g. ref: Per Brinch Hansen, Classic Operating Systems
> >
> >     >
> >     > bill
> >     >
> >
> 

Re: history is hard

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-24 3:20 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 24, 2020, 11:04 AM Toby Thain via cctalk
> mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:
> 
> On 2020-05-24 11:17 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> > ... IBM was doing
> > Virtualization in the 70's.
> 
> 1968 and probably before.[1]
> 
> Most operating systems concepts[2] are much older than people think.
> 
> 
> The topic for my talk next week. Unix had virtualization in 74. The
> second Unix port ran under OS/360's VM in 78.

I thought the Interdata port was second?

--T

> 
> Warner
> 
> 
> --T
> 
> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_CP/CMS
> [2] e.g. ref: Per Brinch Hansen, Classic Operating Systems
> 
> >
> > bill
> >
> 

Re: history is hard

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-24 11:17 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
> ... IBM was doing
> Virtualization in the 70's.

1968 and probably before.[1]

Most operating systems concepts[2] are much older than people think.

--T

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_CP/CMS
[2] e.g. ref: Per Brinch Hansen, Classic Operating Systems

> 
> bill
> 

Re: VT52 is back in service!

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-13 9:59 PM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> Well, I put the VT52 back together, ...
> I feel like I accomplished something today. Thanks everyone for the help
> and thoughts in getting this old girl to work again...
> 
> CZ

Congratulations on a really worthwhile achievement, and thanks for
detailing he repair to the list.

--Toby

Re: SEL 810A running lunar lander

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-11 10:57 PM, Boris Gimbarzevsky via cctalk wrote:
> Nice how machines from that era were well made enough to still work.


Eric spared us video of what was probably months of restoration to make
it work as well as new.

Lovely video, beautiful machine. Thanks for posting.

Are the tapes imaged and online? Watching you handle them was anxiety
inducing :)

--Toby



> Remember that Lunar Lander game from about 1970.  Version I played was
> written in FOCAL and run on a TSS-8.  Should try it out on some kids who
> think they're great gamers and see how fast they catch on - once we were
> able to land without crashing we'd see who could come down at lowest
> speed or have most fuel left over after a successful landing.
> 
>> https://youtu.be/L743MjJthHY
>>
>> I recently got my SEL 810A working. I hope you guys enjoy the video :).
>>
>> -Eric
> 
> 

Re: Odd book

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-05-08 7:15 AM, Chris Zach via cctalk wrote:
> "Trimmed" is a term meaning "scammed" back in the 1920's usually by a
> confidence man. The goal of a confidence game was typically to "trim a
> mark" for example.
> 
> In this context the author was probably saying that not only did they
> get beaten, they got beaten bad in what appeared to be a "rigged game".

Alright, you got me -- how do you "rig" TTT?

--Toby

> 
> I highly recommend the book "The Big Con" by David Maurer. Written in
> the mid to late 1930's it's a fascinating and informative look into the
> language, argot, and methods of the classic confidence man. A skill that
> seems to be coming back into vogue these days
> 
> C
> 
> On 5/8/2020 4:11 AM, Ali via cctalk wrote:
>>> Consider the possibility that the writer took "did not lose 5 times in
>>> a
>>> row", and wrote that as "WON 5 times in a row".
>>
>> Not following Fred. The writer wrote: "We got trimmed in five straight
>> games, and the vice-president in charge of marketing seemed very much
>> pleased." The slang is a bit before my time but I read this as the human
>> player lost five times in a row to the computer. Am I reading it wrong
>> or am
>> I missing something?
>>
>> -Ali
>>

Re: MicroVAX 3100/95 PSU Weirdness

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-04-22 6:19 PM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> I am on a mission to fix a bunch of power supplies and now I am looking at
> my MicroVAX 3100/95. A few days ago I mentioned that the big smoothing
> capacitors on the primary side might need replacing. I have done that now.
> 
>  
> 
> However, in doing so, I have discovered that *one* of the capacitors does
> not get discharged after the power has gone off (this applies both to the
> original ones and the brand-new replacements). Furthermore, after
> discharging them with a resistor and checking that the charge had gone,
> several hours later, the one that does not discharge, has some charge again,
> that was not there before!
> 
>  
> 
> Does anyone know if these PSUs have a bleed resistor to discharge the
> smoothing capacitors? 

You should be able to see by inspection of the PCB.

Why would only one be discharged, is there normally
> one bleed resistor per capacitor? Why would the capacitor acquire charge
> again when it hasn't been powered on?

This unexpected effect is due to dielectric absorption.
https://www.robotroom.com/Capacitor-Self-Discharge-5.html

http://slot-tech.com/interesting_stuff/sencore/LC103/TT105%20-%203759.pdf

--Toby

> 
>  
> 
> Thanks
> 
>  
> 
> Rob
> 

Re: VAXmate PSU fixed, but no video

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-04-18 11:09 AM, Rob Jarratt via cctalk wrote:
> I checked Q6 (in circuit), it is not shorted. I have already checked all the 
> electrolytic capacitors for a bad ESR and replaced those where it was high. 
> There are no shorts on the electrolytic capacitors.
> 
>  
> 
> I will have to desolder the transformer and do a ring test on it (I built a 
> ring test circuit some years ago). I don’t think you can do ring tests in 
> circuit can you?
> 

I think more than one of us would be curious about your ring test
circuit design.

I've been slowly learning to design a pwm flyback controller which is
more or less the same thing in principle?

--Toby

>  
> 
> Regards
> 
>  
> 
> Rob
> 
>  
> 
> From: Mattis Lind  
> Sent: 18 April 2020 13:31
> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; Rob Jarratt ; General 
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: VAXmate PSU fixed, but no video
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Den lör 18 apr. 2020 kl 13:26 skrev Rob Jarratt via cctalk 
> mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org> >:
> 
> Some of you may recall seeing me post about the VAXmate PSU failure. Thanks
> to members of this list I found the failed part in the PSU and the PSU is
> now working again. However, it looks like the PSU failed because of a
> failure on the monitor board. There is a burning smell coming from it,
> possibly the flyback transformer, but I am not 100% sure. I don't see
> physical damage, but of course that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. When
> I took the monitor board out again after this, I wasn't sure if the EHT lead
> was making good contact with the CRT anode. The monitor board is described
> in section 4.4 of this document:
> http://bitsavers.org/pdf/dec/vaxmate/EK-PC500-TD_VAXmate_Technical_Descripti 
> 
>  
> on_1987.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need some advice on diagnosing the problem, I have a few questions:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.  If the EHT lead was not properly connected to the CRT anode, could
> that cause problems?
> 
>  
> 
> No, that is unlikely in my opinion 
> 
>  
> 
> 2.  Is there anything I can safely do with a bench power supply to
> isolate the problem? 
> 
> 3.  Any other suggestions for diagnosing the problem?
> 
>  
> 
> Check Q6 transistor. Looking at the picture 4-14, I think it is wrong. But 
> nevertheless check the capacitors C47 and C53.
> 
> It happens that the EHT transformer get short-circuit turns. But it has only 
> occurred to me once. More often a capacitor is bad, a rectifier or the switch 
> transistor.
> 
>  
> 
> If the EHT transformer is bad it performs bad when doing a ringing test.
> 
>  
> 
> Try to find out what is smelling. Check all power semiconductors.
> 
>  
> 
> 4.  There is an outline spec of the flyback transformer in the section
> 4.4.3.2 of the VAXmate technical description, what chance of finding a
> "modern" replacement?
> 
>  
> 
> Usually very low. There are companies selling replacements but there are so 
> many variants so the chances to find one is very low. And there are less and 
> less of these on the market. But it is worth a try to check what they have. 
> It might be the case that they used the same monitor design as some other DEC 
> product. VT420? Then it could possible a better chance finding one. 
> donberg.ie   seem to have VT420 LOPT.
> 
>  
> 
> /Mattis
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have posted about the PSU repair here:
> 
> 
> 
> https://robs-old-computers.com/2020/04/18/vaxmate-h7270-psu-fixed-but-no-vid 
> 
>  
> eo/
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: Converting Documents

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-04-09 10:16 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:
> Hi All,
> somebody scanned documents for me in .pdfs.
> Looking into them, they are pages of jpgs embedded in .pdf ..
> (100 pages resulting in 350MBytes ...)
> 
> Any easy way to convert them into some b/w .pdf file?
> It is all text, no drawings ...
> 
> Pointers?
> 
> Thanks
> 

Typically I extract using pdfimages

$ pdfimages
pdfimages version 4.00
Copyright 1996-2017 Glyph & Cog, LLC
Usage: pdfimages [options]  

You can then use GraphicsMagick to threshold to bilevel (a suitable
threshold can be found by inspecting or histogramming the image e.g. in
Photoshop).

  gm mogrify -threshold XX% -monochrome

(or `gm convert` can convert each page to TIF for the next step)

Then I'd go via TIFF, combining and compressing all pages as G4
compression using `tiffcp -c g4`, then if you want a PDF instead of
multipage tiff, you can transcode to PDF with `tiff2pdf`.

tiffcp and tiff2pdf are libtiff utilities.

There might be a shortcut using different tools but those are the tools
I use.

--Toby

Re: State of New Jersey needs COBOL programmers

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-04-05 8:40 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>>> well, close.
>>> His BASIC quote is:
>>> "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students
>>> that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers
>>> they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
>>> Here is one copy of his 1975 paper, "How Do We Tell Truths That Might
>>> Hurt":
>>> https://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/ewd498.html
> 
> On Sun, 5 Apr 2020, geneb wrote:
>> That doesn't explain the millions of kids that got their start in
>> BASIC and grew up to learn skills that could wipe the floor with him...
> 
> I still believe that the best FIRST exposure to computer programming
> should be BASIC.  VERY FIRST program should have instant gratification,
> without having had to already learn underlying structures, variable
> types, how to run a compiler, etc.  After creating first program, and a
> few more, in a very short time, it would then be sensible to evaluate
> what kind of programming is most interesting, and switch to the most
> appropriate language.  Having already created a few token programs, it
> is then less onerous to learn compilers, data types, system overhead,
> "ENVIRONMENT DIVISION", etc.
> 
> 
> Q: If Bill Gates hadn't written a BASIC interpreter, where would we be now?
> 
> 

Sounds like you've never heard of Lisp.

Re: ACM library opened

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-04-03 1:12 PM, Robert Armstrong via cctalk wrote:
>> Paul Koning  wrote:
>> ...
>> ACM has currently opened up all of its digital archives during these
> pandemic times
> 
>   This is great - thanks for passing along the information!
> 
>   Now, if the IEEE would just do the same thing...


... Permanently.

--T

> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> 

Update - Re: DEC paper, drives, PDUs, chassis, etc (Toronto, Ontario)

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-02-13 4:26 PM, Toby Thain via cctech wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have access to some DEC items for a month or two before a house is
> sold. Photographs are linked here:
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/HqxI4JA
> 
> I can locate and forward any items, if still available, for actual
> shipping costs and any nominal packaging material costs.
> 
> Summary:

Here's an update of what's claimed. The enthusiasm was unexpected.

> 
> CLAIMED - Hitachi ESDI drives
> STILL MANY AVAILABLE - RX50 drives (many)
> CLAIMED - TK50 tapes (many)
> CLAIMED - DEC Professional magazine 1987-1994
> CLAIMED - DECUS software abstracts
> CLAIMED - DECUS software catalogues
> CLAIMED - Controlling Software Projects (DeMARCO)
> CLAIMED - Programming in C with Let's C (Vine)
> CLAIMED - Surefire Programming in C (Stewart)
> CLAIMED - PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalogs 1983-1989
> CLAIMED - Various databooks, DECdirect, etc
> CLAIMED - DECUScope magazines
> CLAIMED - Copies of RT-11 SIG newsletter(s)
> CLAIMED - issues of digital Canadian Digest, 1980s
> CLAIMED - DECUS Canada mailings
> CLAIMED - digital news & review magazines ("The Independent Newspaper & Test 
> Lab
> of Open Computing for DEC Sites")
> CLAIMED - various PDU units (see pic)
> CLAIMED - RD52/RD53 drives
> ABOUT SEVEN UNCLAIMED - But my ability to ship is limited. PICKUP still 
> possible: various empty chassis/backplanes (see pics)
> CLAIMED - BA23 shells (2)
> various tapes, drives (see pics)

^^ Specifically there are several TK25 drives (hard to ship. PICKUP in
Toronto definitely possible)

There are also around 15 (maybe more) TK25 tapes. These are postable.



--Toby


> 
> As I said, last call, gone in 1-2 months.
> 
> --Toby
> 

Re: ISO earl TI DSP kits

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-03-07 2:38 PM, David Gesswein via cctech wrote:
> My previous employer likely still has the the in circuit emulator for the 
> TMS32010 unless they cleaned up. If the CHM is intereted in it I can 
> enquire if they would like to donate it.
> 
> I know I have some of the stuff since previous work used them as fast 
> microcontrollers.  Should have the data books though I think they were
> perfect bound. May have others that I snagged when it was being thrown out.
> 
> I have the wirewrap prototype of the radar scan converter where we used the
> C30.
> 
> I found around 70 disks for the TMS320C30 and TMS340x0. I can read these
> Let me know your current desires for archiving such as IMD or files, text 
> label 
> info or disk pictures etc.  Do you want the TMS340 graphics processor disk 
> images also?

Curious what kind of tools that comprises and for what platform? The
340x0 was used in Truevision NuVista video cards and for a long time I
was looking for the Mac (MPW I think) cross-development tools.

--Toby


> 
> Small chance I have some TMS32010 stuff though not likely to find it any
> time soon. Earliest work was on VAX and I know that is all gone. I didn't
> personally do any of the '10 work.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 06, 2020 at 11:53:27AM -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
>> CHM doesn't seem to have much early DSP stuff in the collection
>> Does anyone have any of the TMS32010/20/30 or C1x/2x/3x hw/sw kicking around?
>>
>> Other than the docs I've scanned there doesn't seem to be much on the web 
>> either.
>>
>>
>>
>> --

Re: VCF PNW 2020: Cancelled

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-03-06 1:37 PM, Richard Pope via cctalk wrote:
> Hello all,
>     What I said below is from the CDC. That is all that I am going to
> say on the subject.


Good.


> GOD Bless and Thanks,
> rich!
> 
> On 3/6/2020 9:48 AM, Warner Losh via cctalk wrote:
>> Yes. I thought about posting a long rebuttal, with citations to peer
>> reviewed articles and then thought better of it. I'll just say that world
>> health organization (www.who.int) has the best, most current advice based
>> on the accumulated evidence to date and a track record of providing good
>> information over several of these outbreaks and avoids the partisan mess
>> that exists in national sources.
>>
>> Warner
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 1:11 AM Tor Arntsen via cctalk
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Please do not try to spread medical advice on a mailing list.
>>> FYI, what you're saying does *not* match proper advice from medical
>>> sources.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 6 Mar 2020 at 07:58, Richard Pope via cctalk
>>>  wrote:
 Hello all,
   The Covid-19 threat is being over sold. Children don't seem to be
 at risk. It is the elderly that seem to get really sick. If you are
 sick
 just stay home. You can also wear a mask and that will protect others.
 The flu is more of a threat than Covid-19. If you are not sick
 wearing a
 mask is a waste of money and resources for you can be infected through
 the eyes. No reason to cancel. Just request that sick people please
 stay
 home.
 GOD Bless and Thanks,
 rich!

 On 3/5/2020 11:30 PM, John Herron via cctalk wrote:
> Tough choice and I saw the museum closing announcement today also. Is
>>> there
> a way to still buy any swag and show support for all of you folks'
> hard
> work?
>
> Probably too soon to say but any chance of a reschedule vs cancel?
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2020, 7:34 PM Michael Brutman via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
>> The short story: COVID-19
>>
>> More details at http://vcfed.org/vcf-pnw.
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
> 

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-02-18 4:16 PM, jwest--- via cctalk wrote:
> C'mon, lets keep the politics off-list please.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Jim Manley via 
> cctalk
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2020 3:08 PM
> To: Holm Tiffe ; Jim Manley ; 
> General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Crypto AG
> 
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 2:49 PM Holm Tiffe  wrote:
> 
> 
>> You are talking from the US, right?
>> There is no other country on the world that fit's that nicely to your 
>> described symptoms.
>>
> 
> See the foregoing posts.  There is no other country in the world outside the 
> U.S. capable of saving, let alone willing, unlimited numbers of thankless, 
> forgetful, sanctimonious examples of limited vision and knowledge of real 
> history.  BTW, what were your predecessors doing between
> 1933 and 1945, Holm?


^^ OK mods, time to shut this garbage down.



> 
> Jim
> 
> 

Re: Fwd: Crypto AG

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2020-02-18 3:45 PM, Jim Manley via cctalk wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 7:36 AM Will Cooke via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>> Would the US prefer to not use arbitration at all ? Then it would be
>> asimple matter of who is the strongest.
>>
> 
> Worked pretty well for Teddy Roosevelt and the rest of yes, we, the U.S.,
> over history, who saved most others' bacon over and over again.  That
> includes my father starting with the 101st AD at Normandy and 

Is this blather on topic?

If so I need to be on a different list.


> the above, and much more, as an engineer and a computer scientist.  So,
> there ya go, back on topic, Will.
> 
> Most respectfully,
> Jim
> 

DEC paper, drives, PDUs, chassis, etc (Toronto, Ontario)

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

Hi,

I have access to some DEC items for a month or two before a house is
sold. Photographs are linked here:

https://imgur.com/a/HqxI4JA

I can locate and forward any items, if still available, for actual
shipping costs and any nominal packaging material costs.

Summary:

Hitachi ESDI drives
RX50 drives (many)
TK50 tapes (many)
DEC Professional magazine 1987-1994
DECUS software abstracts
DECUS software catalogues
Controlling Software Projects (DeMARCO)
Programming in C with Let's C (Vine)
Surefire Programming in C (Stewart)
PDP-11 Systems and Options Catalogs 1983-1989
Various databooks, DECdirect, etc
DECUScope magazines
Copies of RT-11 SIG newsletter(s)
issues of digital Canadian Digest, 1980s
DECUS Canada mailings
digital news & review magazines ("The Independent Newspaper & Test Lab
of Open Computing for DEC Sites")
various PDU units (see pic)
RD52/RD53 drives
various empty chassis/backplanes (see pics)
BA23 shells (2)
various tapes, drives (see pics)

As I said, last call, gone in 1-2 months.

--Toby

Re: Ordering parts onesie twosie

[Toby Thain via cctalk]

On 2019-12-31 5:52 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Dec 31, 2019, at 2:42 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>>> On Dec 31, 2019, at 14:25, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> On 12/31/19 2:15 PM, Alan Perry via cctalk wrote:


>> On Dec 31, 2019, at 13:32, Ali via cctalk  wrote:
>
> I hate having to order 50 capacitors from China every time I need one
>

 I ordered two from Mouser this week.
>>>
>>> Dunno--after all, you're simply moving your purchasing closer to the
>>> point of production when you order from China.  So that makes sense to
>>> cut out the middleman.
>>
>> Shipping just two capacitors from Texas to Seattle seems silly enough. 
>> Shipping them from China seems really silly to me.
>>
>> Distribution (middlemen) is how a lot of the people earn a living.
> 
> Unfortunately the lack of actual electronics parts places in town mean that 
> shopping online is the only option.  We used to have multiple options in the 
> area, they slowly disappeared, including Rat Shack.  Fry’s is the only option 
> that I’m aware of left.
> 
> On an interesting note, I read an article recently, that popped up in my 
> financial news.  Delivery services have reached the breaking point in the 
> cities, due to the amount of deliveries, and the lack of parking.

Huh. I wonder how postal mail ever worked.

--T

> 
> Zane
> 
>