[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

Ooo... I did not know there was an LGP30 version, and written in the
70s...who was doing Royal McBee dev 20.years after the machine was sold for
-ehemm- personal computing?

On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 5:20 AM Christian Corti via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Jun 2024, Paul Koning wrote:
> > Interesting that the "40 years of Lander" article doesn't mention the
> > McDonald's in the GT40 version.  A couple of the commenters refer to it;
>
> It doesn't mention all the other versions that were written, for example
> the LGP-30 version written in ACT-V in the early 70s. ;-)))
>
> Christian
>

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024, Paul Koning wrote:
Interesting that the "40 years of Lander" article doesn't mention the 
McDonald's in the GT40 version.  A couple of the commenters refer to it;


It doesn't mention all the other versions that were written, for example 
the LGP-30 version written in ACT-V in the early 70s. ;-)))


Christian

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

Interesting that the "40 years of Lander" article doesn't mention the 
McDonald's in the GT40 version.  A couple of the commenters refer to it; if you 
were close enough the astronaut would walk over and order "two cheeseburgers 
and a Big Mac to go".  If you were right on, it would give you a particularly 
rude message about destroying the only McDonald's on the moon.

I wonder if any of the later Lander programs copied that bit of fun.  It was an 
early "Easter Egg", probably before that term became common.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I ha e one for the Honeywell DDP 516 and that class of system on
vintagecomputer.net, extracted from papertape...search "lander" it
should.come up, feed it into simh.
Contact me if you successfully get it to work.
Bill

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 5:36 PM Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> > Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.
>
> At the U of Alberta in the graphics terminal room in the General
> Services Bldg., next door to the I/O room (pick up and drop
> off cards and printouts from the MTS Amdahl), there was a short
> rack with a ~10U PDP of some flavour connected to a rack mount
> GT-40 graphics terminal.  There was a version of lunar lander
> you could download into the PDP from the MTS system and play off-
> line (i.e. free).  You used a light pen to control everything,
> and the goal was to land successfully beside the only McDonalds
> on the moon.
>
> --lyndon
>

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Lyndon Nerenberg (VE7TFX/VE6BBM) via cctalk]

> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.

At the U of Alberta in the graphics terminal room in the General
Services Bldg., next door to the I/O room (pick up and drop
off cards and printouts from the MTS Amdahl), there was a short
rack with a ~10U PDP of some flavour connected to a rack mount
GT-40 graphics terminal.  There was a version of lunar lander
you could download into the PDP from the MTS system and play off-
line (i.e. free).  You used a light pen to control everything,
and the goal was to land successfully beside the only McDonalds
on the moon.

--lyndon

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:13 PM John Robertson via cctalk
 wrote:
> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.

I loved that version when it came out when I was a kid.  Sad most of
them disappeared (and were converted into Asteroids machines).  A
buddy of mine has an original with blown-out X-Y drivers.  I keep
offering to help him repair it.  I did recently get a 15" Electrohome
vector display that would work with the original boards (but I don't
_have_ a set of original boards).  What I really need and don't have
is the thrust controller.  Can build one, but it's not at the top of
the list of projects.

I have played it many, many times in emulation (MAME), but I miss the
real vectors and that thrust controller.

There are also several versions for Commodore machines.  Raster and
chunky, but still flyable.

Definitely a popular game framework right along with Star Trek.

-ethan

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Wayne S via cctalk]

First job was programming the “L” series machines. I imagine a Lunar Lander 
game used up a lot of greenbar paper!



Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 17, 2024, at 13:37, Mike Stein via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> "Lunar Lander games abound on every platform"
> 
> For sure! I even have a copy on tape somewhere for the Burroughs L
> series machines, but unfortunately I'm not aware of any of those still
> working; there was an L7xxx and also an L5xxx and L9xxx, but AFAIK
> they're display only.
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:07 PM John Robertson via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2024/06/17 12:26 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
>>>   wrote:
 I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.
 
 This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
 should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.
 
 ...
 
 It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):
>>> https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/
>>> 
>>> I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.
>>> 
>>> -ethan
>> 
>> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
>> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.
>> 
>> Some more of the history of the games (from 2009):
>> 
>> technologizer.com
>> 
>> Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>
>> 
>> Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and
>> Pac-Man, the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your
>> lunar module onto the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned
>> computer games of all time. But did you know that game players began
>> touching down on the moon in Lunar Lander…
>> 
>> 🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html
>> 
>> 
>>  John :-#)#
>> 
>> 
>> --
>>  John's Jukes Ltd.
>> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
>> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>>  flippers.com
>>  "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Mike Stein via cctalk]

"Lunar Lander games abound on every platform"

For sure! I even have a copy on tape somewhere for the Burroughs L
series machines, but unfortunately I'm not aware of any of those still
working; there was an L7xxx and also an L5xxx and L9xxx, but AFAIK
they're display only.


On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 4:07 PM John Robertson via cctalk
 wrote:
>
> On 2024/06/17 12:26 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
> >   wrote:
> >> I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.
> >>
> >> This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
> >> should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >> It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):
> > https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/
> >
> > I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.
> >
> > -ethan
>
> Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar
> Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.
>
> Some more of the history of the games (from 2009):
>
> technologizer.com
>
> Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>
>
> Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and
> Pac-Man, the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your
> lunar module onto the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned
> computer games of all time. But did you know that game players began
> touching down on the moon in Lunar Lander…
>
> 🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html
> 
>
>   John :-#)#
>
>
> --
>   John's Jukes Ltd.
> 7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
> Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>   flippers.com
>   "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jun 17, 2024, at 4:00 PM, John Robertson via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> ...
> Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>
> 
> Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and Pac-Man, 
> the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your lunar module onto 
> the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned computer games of all 
> time. But did you know that game players began touching down on the moon in 
> Lunar Lander…
> 
> 🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html 
> 


There's also one for the CDC 6000 series mainframes, using the system console 
as the display.

* LUNAR - LUNAR LANDING SIMULATOR.
*
* L. R. ATKIN.   70/03/01.
* C. G. FILSTEAD.70/03/01.
* D. J. SLATE.   70/03/01.  VERSION 1.0
* C. G. FILSTEAD.70/08/16.  VERSION 2.0
* S. D. FREYDER. (LUN INTERFACE)
* J. J. DRUMMOND.77/06/20.  CONVERSION TO KRONOS/NOS.
 LUNARSPACE  4,10
***  LUNAR SIMULATES A SHIP IN THE VICINITY  OF  THE  MOON.
* IT IS ABLE TO ORBIT, LAND, TAKE OFF, ETC.  THE SIMULATED SHIP
* DOES NOT RESEMBLE THE *APOLLO* LUNAR MODULE, SINCE THRUST AND
* FUEL  LIMITATIONS  WOULD  MAKE LANDING TOO DIFFICULT AND TIME
* CONSUMING.

I tried it once.  It's HARD because it doesn't give you a spectator's view, as 
most of the other programs do (where you see the lander and the moon's 
terrain).  Instead, it shows you the pilot's view, with little windows showing 
not much at all, and a bunch of instruments that tell you which way is up and 
where you are.

I'm not sure if the console display was there in the original, or if that's the 
work of Stephen Freyder (date not given here, but probably 1976).

paul

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[John Robertson via cctalk]

On 2024/06/17 12:26 p.m., Ethan Dicks via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
  wrote:

I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.

This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.

...

It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):

https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/

I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.

-ethan


Fascinating - and there was a video game made by Atari called Lunar 
Lander which also tried to put a LEM safely on the surface.


Some more of the history of the games (from 2009):

technologizer.com

Forty Years of Lunar Lander <#>

Lunar Lander games abound on every platform. Along with Tetris and 
Pac-Man, the game--in which your mission is to safely maneuver your 
lunar module onto the moon's surface--is one of the most widely cloned 
computer games of all time. But did you know that game players began 
touching down on the moon in Lunar Lander…


🔗 https://technologizer.com/2009/07/19/lunar-lander/index.html 



 John :-#)#


--
 John's Jukes Ltd.
7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
 flippers.com
 "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 1:53 PM Mike Katz via cctalk
 wrote:
> I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.
>
> This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it
> should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.
>
> ...
>
> It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):

https://svn.so-much-stuff.com/svn/trunk/pdp8/src/decus/focal8-81/

I have run this at VCF on a 4K PDP-8.

-ethan

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

I remember running this program at school in the mid 1970's.

This runs on 4K Focal '69 without the extended functions enabled. So it 
should run on a 4K PDP-8/L.


I think I might have actually run it on a 4K PDP-8/L with an ASR-33 
Teletype sometime between 1972 and 1975.  I know I ran it on a PDP-8/E 
with 12K and a TD8E DecTape system based Edusystem 20 in 1975.


It was available as FOCAL8-81 from DECUS (Submitted 20-Jan-1970):

Abstract:

This program realistically simulates an Apollo moon landing using NASA 
figures. It begins with
module at fJ seconds, 120 miles above the moon, carrying 16000 pounds of 
fuel, with a velocity
of 2600 miles per hour. Upon radar checks of velocity, altitude, 
remaining fuel, and time each
10 seconds, you /nay decide upon fuel rate for next time interval. The 
object is to land safely

on the moon.

RESTRICTIONS
You cannot retain FOCAL's extended functions (LOG, EXP, etc).

I have attached a scan of the DECUS Program Library documentation on 
it.  This has the source on page 4 of the PDF










On 6/17/2024 4:40 AM, cz via cctalk wrote:
Didn't know the source code had been released in FOCAL. I wonder if it 
will run on a 4k pdp8/L.


One way to find out.

On 6/17/2024 4:38 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-old-bug-in-lunar-lander-computer-game-code/ 

[cctalk] Re: Lunar Lander, bug

[cz via cctalk]

Didn't know the source code had been released in FOCAL. I wonder if it 
will run on a 4k pdp8/L.


One way to find out.

On 6/17/2024 4:38 AM, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote:

Interesting reading, as I believe, we all played it at least once :)

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2024/06/retired-engineer-discovers-55-year-old-bug-in-lunar-lander-computer-game-code/