Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Jason T via cctalk]

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Mark G Thomas  wrote:
> I think you want this:  http://files.markgthomas.com/dl/adaptec/EZSCSI40.IMD
> (This URL is temporary.)

Ahh I didn't realize it was just the EZSCSI disk.  Grabbed it just in
case, as I don't know which version(s) I have.

Thanks!

-j

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Mark G Thomas via cctalk]

Hi,

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 08:26:45PM -0600, Jason T via cctalk wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Richard Cini  wrote:
> > I use this card as a floppy/disk controller in a PC/AT that's used solely 
> > for imaging. The controller is connected to two Seagate ST-2502N (442MB) 
> > hard drives running MS-DOS 6.22. Works like a champ. Cables are readily 
> > available on eBay but since they're regular 50-pin IDC connectors, you can 
> > DIY if needed -- connectors are readily available.
> 
> Do you have (and can you post) the MS-DOS drivers for that card?  I
> also run one in my floppy imager machine, which dual-boots btw. MS-DOS
> and some later Linux.  Having SCSI for at least one of the OSes would
> be nice.
> 
> I could also switch the other partition over to FreeBSD, as Warner L 
> suggested.

I think you want this:  http://files.markgthomas.com/dl/adaptec/EZSCSI40.IMD
(This URL is temporary.)

I just found, imaged, and installed it, on my disk-imaging PC using
an AHA-1522A:

---
IMD 1.18: 24/12/2017  4:54:15
Adaptec EZ-SCSI v4.01a Setup Diskette Disk 1of1 HD 3.5
Windows 95/NT/3.1x and DOS Drivers
>From Windows 95 or NT Click Start, Run, Type a:\setup
>From Windows 3.1 or NT 3.52 File/Run Type a:\setup
>From DOS Type a:, Type dosinst
---

Mark

-- 
Mark G. Thomas (m...@misty.com), KC3DRE

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

I often have a 1522A in my disk imaging machine. Linux supports it, which
means I can use `ddrescue` with it. It'll also talk to a lot of
older/slower drives that my 2940UW doesn't like (e.g. very old DEC drives
from VAXen, it does better with some old tape drives than the 2940UW). It's
slow, but I've also found that it's less likely to cause a kernel panic if
you're working on a disk that is very near the end of its life. I suspect
that's due to being a PIO device.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 6:31 AM, jim stephens via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 1/18/2018 5:44 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> I could, but I guess by the time I’ve sourced a replacement I might as
>>> well have bought an AHA-1522A instead, I have a couple of scouts out
>>> looking for them as we speak :) The 1522A is a full pass for TESTFDC.
>>>
>> Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
>> has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
>> you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
>> imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
>> It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
>> Not sure about the BSDs.
>>
>>
>> The 1522 was based on a lower cost chipset which Adaptec introduced to
> complement the 154x boards.  SCSI was suffering from being undercut by
> other interfaces in the market due to the nonstandard bios interface that
> the systems equipped with the 154x boards had to run with as bios got more
> complicated.
>
> Also I think this was the first chip that could be in the system w/o
> having the bios initiate the interface.  The 154x (1542 for example)
> required having the bus initiated and reset at boot by the bios, since
> there was a lot of logic involved in that chip.  The 152x and the like
> could be fully integrated into a reasonable sized driver and only have to
> go the the time consuming process of resetting and enumerating devices and
> initiators, etc. when needed.
>
> As Richard said for use with scanners and other peripheral media. The
> systems became very annoying if you didn't have boot media attached to the
> system controller to justify all the time it took to do that on every boot.
>
> And this and the 151x controllers were priced lower.
>
> I suspect the 154x and the PCI interface controllers Adaptec had should
> still be in the kernel.  You might be able to find the drivers and enable
> them in the Linux Kernel, unless some kernel driver rewrite had some
> feature that couldn't be implemented for this controller.
>
> I don't have a lot of references for the above, and if anyone has updates
> or comments, please add them.  I'm still using the HP DL360 and DL380 and
> the like which have the higher end controllers integrated in for the only
> SCSI work I do, and have not followed these or other support for a long
> time for parallel scsi interfaces.
>
> DL360's are so cheap that buying one with SCSI drives in the Generation 5
> or 6 or later is the best way I know of to run SCSI. Not great for power,
> but they are excellent and solid systems with a lot of OS support.
> thanks
> Jim
>

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 1/18/2018 5:44 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk
 wrote:

I could, but I guess by the time I’ve sourced a replacement I might as well 
have bought an AHA-1522A instead, I have a couple of scouts out looking for 
them as we speak :) The 1522A is a full pass for TESTFDC.

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.


The 1522 was based on a lower cost chipset which Adaptec introduced to 
complement the 154x boards.  SCSI was suffering from being undercut by 
other interfaces in the market due to the nonstandard bios interface 
that the systems equipped with the 154x boards had to run with as bios 
got more complicated.


Also I think this was the first chip that could be in the system w/o 
having the bios initiate the interface.  The 154x (1542 for example) 
required having the bus initiated and reset at boot by the bios, since 
there was a lot of logic involved in that chip.  The 152x and the like 
could be fully integrated into a reasonable sized driver and only have 
to go the the time consuming process of resetting and enumerating 
devices and initiators, etc. when needed.


As Richard said for use with scanners and other peripheral media. The 
systems became very annoying if you didn't have boot media attached to 
the system controller to justify all the time it took to do that on 
every boot.


And this and the 151x controllers were priced lower.

I suspect the 154x and the PCI interface controllers Adaptec had should 
still be in the kernel.  You might be able to find the drivers and 
enable them in the Linux Kernel, unless some kernel driver rewrite had 
some feature that couldn't be implemented for this controller.


I don't have a lot of references for the above, and if anyone has 
updates or comments, please add them.  I'm still using the HP DL360 and 
DL380 and the like which have the higher end controllers integrated in 
for the only SCSI work I do, and have not followed these or other 
support for a long time for parallel scsi interfaces.


DL360's are so cheap that buying one with SCSI drives in the Generation 
5 or 6 or later is the best way I know of to run SCSI. Not great for 
power, but they are excellent and solid systems with a lot of OS support.

thanks
Jim

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 1/19/2018 12:08 AM, TeoZ via cctalk wrote:

Didn’t early SUN gear have SCSI floppy drives?


There is a SCSI floppy drive branded with Tadpole, I think.
thanks
Jim

-Original Message- From: Fred Cisin via cctalk
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:18 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results 
Registry)


On Thu, 18 Jan 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.


A few SCSI floppy drives existed, but they were never very common.
Only SCSI floppy that I remember having was a "Floptical" (20MB), that
also handled 1.4M

Or, are you suggesting putting together an imaging machine that also
handles HDD, CD-ROM, some tape cartridges, etc.?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Holm Tiffe via cctalk]

Christian Corti via cctalk wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Jan 2018, TeoZ wrote:
> > Didn?t early SUN gear have SCSI floppy drives?
> 
> No, SUN always used standard floppy controllers. But HP and DEC used them, 
> although it was not very common. The floppy drives are standard TEAC 
> FD-235HF with an additional SCSI floppy controller board.
> 
> Christian


Christian weißt Du wo man Sowas noch auftreiben könnte? Ich suche nach
einer Möglichkeit Floppies mit "modernen Computern" zu lesen und
Schreiben..natürlich noch viel lieber 5,25 Zoll..
SCSI hab ich in so gut wie allen Rechnern, aber die Motherboards haben
keinen FDC mehr und auch keine ISA Slots um sowas wie einen 1542 rein zu
stöpseln.

Gruß,

Holm

-- 
  Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
 Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
i...@tsht.de Fax +49 3731 74200 Tel +49 3731 74222 Mobil: 0172 8790 741

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Fri, 19 Jan 2018, TeoZ wrote:

Didn?t early SUN gear have SCSI floppy drives?


No, SUN always used standard floppy controllers. But HP and DEC used them, 
although it was not very common. The floppy drives are standard TEAC 
FD-235HF with an additional SCSI floppy controller board.


Christian

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Didn’t early SUN gear have SCSI floppy drives?

-Original Message- 
From: Fred Cisin via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 9:18 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results 
Registry)


On Thu, 18 Jan 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.


A few SCSI floppy drives existed, but they were never very common.
Only SCSI floppy that I remember having was a "Floptical" (20MB), that
also handled 1.4M

Or, are you suggesting putting together an imaging machine that also
handles HDD, CD-ROM, some tape cartridges, etc.? 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 01/18/2018 06:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

> A few SCSI floppy drives existed, but they were never very common.
> Only SCSI floppy that I remember having was a "Floptical" (20MB), that
> also handled 1.4M

Most "real" SCSI drives were basically bolt-on adapter affairs to a
traditional floppy interface.   You can, for example, occasionally find
Teac FD235S drives for sale--and if you look, it's basically a
SCSI-to-floppy adapter bolted onto a regular FD235.

There were also some SMS/OMTI cards that served the same
purpose--floopy-to-SCSI.

--Chuck

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

For that card, no drivers are needed for the hard drives. The 
on-board ROM is an Int13 wedge.
Regarding using any other devices like a ZIP drive, CD or a floptical, not sure 
if those need drivers. ZIP definitely needed a DOS driver. The CD did as well 
(In both config.sys and autoexec) but the ROM may have CDROM extensions already 
to enable booting from CD. Never tried it with that card though. 



Get Outlook for iOS






On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 9:27 PM -0500, "Jason T via cctalk" 
 wrote:










On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Richard Cini  wrote:
> I use this card as a floppy/disk controller in a PC/AT that's used solely for 
> imaging. The controller is connected to two Seagate ST-2502N (442MB) hard 
> drives running MS-DOS 6.22. Works like a champ. Cables are readily available 
> on eBay but since they're regular 50-pin IDC connectors, you can DIY if 
> needed -- connectors are readily available.

Do you have (and can you post) the MS-DOS drivers for that card?  I
also run one in my floppy imager machine, which dual-boots btw. MS-DOS
and some later Linux.  Having SCSI for at least one of the OSes would
be nice.

I could also switch the other partition over to FreeBSD, as Warner L suggested.

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Jason T via cctalk]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 8:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk
 wrote:
> Or, are you suggesting putting together an imaging machine that also handles
> HDD, CD-ROM, some tape cartridges, etc.?

Correct.  Two key components in short supply when you have 11
classiccmp projects are space and motivation, so if I can dd an old
hard drive/Jaz cart/etc from the same machine where I'm reading in
floppies, all the better.

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Jason T via cctalk]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Richard Cini  wrote:
> I use this card as a floppy/disk controller in a PC/AT that's used solely for 
> imaging. The controller is connected to two Seagate ST-2502N (442MB) hard 
> drives running MS-DOS 6.22. Works like a champ. Cables are readily available 
> on eBay but since they're regular 50-pin IDC connectors, you can DIY if 
> needed -- connectors are readily available.

Do you have (and can you post) the MS-DOS drivers for that card?  I
also run one in my floppy imager machine, which dual-boots btw. MS-DOS
and some later Linux.  Having SCSI for at least one of the OSes would
be nice.

I could also switch the other partition over to FreeBSD, as Warner L suggested.

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018, Jason T via cctalk wrote:

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.


A few SCSI floppy drives existed, but they were never very common.
Only SCSI floppy that I remember having was a "Floptical" (20MB), that 
also handled 1.4M


Or, are you suggesting putting together an imaging machine that also 
handles HDD, CD-ROM, some tape cartridges, etc.?

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Warner Losh via cctalk]

On Jan 18, 2018 6:44 PM, "Jason T via cctalk"  wrote:

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk
 wrote:
> I could, but I guess by the time I’ve sourced a replacement I might as
well have bought an AHA-1522A instead, I have a couple of scouts out
looking for them as we speak :) The 1522A is a full pass for TESTFDC.

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.


FreeBSD supports it with the aic driver.

Warner

Re: Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

I use this card as a floppy/disk controller in a PC/AT that's used solely for 
imaging. The controller is connected to two Seagate ST-2502N (442MB) hard 
drives running MS-DOS 6.22. Works like a champ. Cables are readily available on 
eBay but since they're regular 50-pin IDC connectors, you can DIY if needed -- 
connectors are readily available.


Rich
 
--
Rich Cini
http://www.classiccmp.org/cini
http://www.classiccmp.org/altair32
 

On 1/18/18, 8:44 PM, "cctalk on behalf of Jason T via cctalk" 
 wrote:

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk
 wrote:
> I could, but I guess by the time I’ve sourced a replacement I might as 
well have bought an AHA-1522A instead, I have a couple of scouts out looking 
for them as we speak :) The 1522A is a full pass for TESTFDC.

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.

Adaptec 1522A SCSI Support (was re: New TestFDC Results Registry)

[Jason T via cctalk]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 6:58 PM, Adrian Graham via cctalk
 wrote:
> I could, but I guess by the time I’ve sourced a replacement I might as well 
> have bought an AHA-1522A instead, I have a couple of scouts out looking for 
> them as we speak :) The 1522A is a full pass for TESTFDC.

Has anyone using one of these cards made use of the SCSI function?  It
has a Centronics 50 connector, which isn't terribly useful unless
you've got the right cable, but if you're building an all-in-one
imaging machine, it might be handy to have SCSI capability as well.
It seems the driver hasn't been in Linux for quite a few versions.
Not sure about the BSDs.