Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
HI Phil, Sorry, I guess "dead" was a little harsh. Sorry for that. I'm glad to know that it's still alive. I appreciate your reply and I'd love to have a DiscFerret board (actually, if I could request two, that would be great in case I mess one up). I do have a hot air solder station and have done surface mount before so that shouldn't be a problem. I'd be happy to report back as well. I will email you off-list. Santo On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:45 AM, Philip Pemberton wrote: > On 13/10/16 11:39, Santo Nucifora wrote: > > Hi Eric, > > > > First off, thanks for attempting this. I spent last night trying to > > recreate a disk using the CP/M-86 streams I had posted with the Kryoflux > > and failed. I'm going to play with it a little until I can get a working > > reproduction so I would not rely on those Kryoflux streams just yet. I > am > > guessing the only way I can reproduce a disk is through the Kryoflux > > streams written back to a disk but I can't seem to do that. > > > > I noticed that Discferret had a wiki page on the Victor 9000 format. It > > looks like it handled the format but it looks like it is a dead project > and > > I'm guessing you can't get Discferret boards anymore. > > I have about a dozen bare DiscFerret boards in my cupboard if anyone > wants one. > The board house ran them as hot-air levelled instead of silver-plated, > so they need the SMD pads for the RAM and FPGA (and ideally the PIC too) > cleaning with desolder wick before having those parts installed. > Electrically they're fine. > > If you'd prefer to run your own boards (maybe you really like the gold > on purple that OSH Park do?), I have no problem with someone downloading > Eagle, running CAM and uploading the resulting Gerber files to a board > house. Student Me would have appreciated it if you'd have kicked him a > few quid for doing that, but these days... screw it, go have fun. It's > GPLv2 / open hardware. If we ever meet in person, say thank-you. That'll > do. :) > > Heck, go make a box full of DiscFerrets for you and your friends. I'd > actually like to see people getting something out of it more than I'd > like to see money from it :) > > There's even an ATE program (FerretTest) which can give you a rough idea > where to look for bad solder joints and things. Lots of things to help > you DIY boards (though I actually wrote it because I had a run of boards > with solder bridges on the RAM and FPGA which were causing read/write > issues). > > > As far as "dead project" goes, it's only dead in the sense that I have > no inclination to buy parts and assemble boards again. Anyone who's been > following DiscFerret for long enough knows the tale. The record's been > stuck so long it's worn through, so I won't repeat it :P > > > Regarding the API and microcode, they're not "dead", they're "stable"! I > can't think of anything else to add. What more does it need than read > and write? Tell me! > > > TL/DR: it was a university final year project that kinda escaped the > lab. I'm glad you all still like it and talk about it. I never saw that > coming. > > > Cheers, > -- > Phil. > classic...@philpem.me.uk > http://www.philpem.me.uk/ >
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On 13/10/16 11:39, Santo Nucifora wrote: > Hi Eric, > > First off, thanks for attempting this. I spent last night trying to > recreate a disk using the CP/M-86 streams I had posted with the Kryoflux > and failed. I'm going to play with it a little until I can get a working > reproduction so I would not rely on those Kryoflux streams just yet. I am > guessing the only way I can reproduce a disk is through the Kryoflux > streams written back to a disk but I can't seem to do that. > > I noticed that Discferret had a wiki page on the Victor 9000 format. It > looks like it handled the format but it looks like it is a dead project and > I'm guessing you can't get Discferret boards anymore. I have about a dozen bare DiscFerret boards in my cupboard if anyone wants one. The board house ran them as hot-air levelled instead of silver-plated, so they need the SMD pads for the RAM and FPGA (and ideally the PIC too) cleaning with desolder wick before having those parts installed. Electrically they're fine. If you'd prefer to run your own boards (maybe you really like the gold on purple that OSH Park do?), I have no problem with someone downloading Eagle, running CAM and uploading the resulting Gerber files to a board house. Student Me would have appreciated it if you'd have kicked him a few quid for doing that, but these days... screw it, go have fun. It's GPLv2 / open hardware. If we ever meet in person, say thank-you. That'll do. :) Heck, go make a box full of DiscFerrets for you and your friends. I'd actually like to see people getting something out of it more than I'd like to see money from it :) There's even an ATE program (FerretTest) which can give you a rough idea where to look for bad solder joints and things. Lots of things to help you DIY boards (though I actually wrote it because I had a run of boards with solder bridges on the RAM and FPGA which were causing read/write issues). As far as "dead project" goes, it's only dead in the sense that I have no inclination to buy parts and assemble boards again. Anyone who's been following DiscFerret for long enough knows the tale. The record's been stuck so long it's worn through, so I won't repeat it :P Regarding the API and microcode, they're not "dead", they're "stable"! I can't think of anything else to add. What more does it need than read and write? Tell me! TL/DR: it was a university final year project that kinda escaped the lab. I'm glad you all still like it and talk about it. I never saw that coming. Cheers, -- Phil. classic...@philpem.me.uk http://www.philpem.me.uk/
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
Hi Eric, First off, thanks for attempting this. I spent last night trying to recreate a disk using the CP/M-86 streams I had posted with the Kryoflux and failed. I'm going to play with it a little until I can get a working reproduction so I would not rely on those Kryoflux streams just yet. I am guessing the only way I can reproduce a disk is through the Kryoflux streams written back to a disk but I can't seem to do that. I noticed that Discferret had a wiki page on the Victor 9000 format. It looks like it handled the format but it looks like it is a dead project and I'm guessing you can't get Discferret boards anymore. I was thinking of trying some of the Commodore GCR formats to see if that might do it (being that it is theoretically close except for the vartiable speed track part) but it looks like you can't write back IMG files that it creates. I'll have to do some playing around first but once I figure it out, I'll let you know. Since this is the very first disk I am trying on the Kryoflux, I'll pick something easy and try to reproduce the disk. Santo On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Eric Smith wrote: > On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > > What Eric is working on is software that can decode disk formats that are > > NOT necessarily WD/NEC FDC compatible! And writing a file similar to the > > one created by IMD. > > > > That will most certainly NOT then be convertible by IMD into a Victor > 9000 > > disk! > > That's a good explanation. I was thinking of it as non-standard use > of IMD format; the resulting IMD file would contain the logical > contents of the Victor 9000 disk, but because the IMD format doesn't > (yet) have suitable definitions for Victor 9000 format, the file would > purport to contain IBM-compatible MFM sectors. > > I don't really have any plan for a way to convert these Victor 9000 > pseudo-IMD files back into actual diskettes. I could write an > imdtoflux program as a counterpart to the fluxtoimd program, which > would help with a portion of the problem. > > > However, OTHER software, that understands the file systems could then > > extract files. For example, if it is successful, then it might be > possible > > to take the Victor9000 IMD file produced by fluxtoimd, run it through > IMD to > > write that content onto a disk in a WD/NEC compatible format with > > similarities of parameters other than encoding (eg. Chromemco?), and then > > read files from that disk using XenoCopy or equivalent. > > I'm not sure how flexible XenoCopy is, but Victor 9000 format used > Zoned CAV, so tracks have varying numbers of sectors, from 11 to 19. > The pseudo-IMD file will preserve that organization. If the IMDU > program doesn't get upset by the variable number of sectors per track, > it might be able to extract the sector data into a raw binary > filesystem image. Assuming that MS-DOS on the Victor 9000 uses the > obvious mapping of FAT cluster numbers to track/head/sector, the > resulting raw binary filesystem image might be usable with existing > utilities for FAT filesystems, such as mtools. > > There's always been such a bewildering variety of mappings of CP/M > blocks to track/head/sector that I wouldn't put any money on the same > conversion working for Victor 9000 CP/M-86 disks. > > In both cases (MS-DOS and CP/M-86), if it proves necessary I'll whip > up another simple utility to convert the pseudo-IMD file into a usable > raw binary filesystem image. >
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 6:42 PM, Fred Cisin wrote: > What Eric is working on is software that can decode disk formats that are > NOT necessarily WD/NEC FDC compatible! And writing a file similar to the > one created by IMD. > > That will most certainly NOT then be convertible by IMD into a Victor 9000 > disk! That's a good explanation. I was thinking of it as non-standard use of IMD format; the resulting IMD file would contain the logical contents of the Victor 9000 disk, but because the IMD format doesn't (yet) have suitable definitions for Victor 9000 format, the file would purport to contain IBM-compatible MFM sectors. I don't really have any plan for a way to convert these Victor 9000 pseudo-IMD files back into actual diskettes. I could write an imdtoflux program as a counterpart to the fluxtoimd program, which would help with a portion of the problem. > However, OTHER software, that understands the file systems could then > extract files. For example, if it is successful, then it might be possible > to take the Victor9000 IMD file produced by fluxtoimd, run it through IMD to > write that content onto a disk in a WD/NEC compatible format with > similarities of parameters other than encoding (eg. Chromemco?), and then > read files from that disk using XenoCopy or equivalent. I'm not sure how flexible XenoCopy is, but Victor 9000 format used Zoned CAV, so tracks have varying numbers of sectors, from 11 to 19. The pseudo-IMD file will preserve that organization. If the IMDU program doesn't get upset by the variable number of sectors per track, it might be able to extract the sector data into a raw binary filesystem image. Assuming that MS-DOS on the Victor 9000 uses the obvious mapping of FAT cluster numbers to track/head/sector, the resulting raw binary filesystem image might be usable with existing utilities for FAT filesystems, such as mtools. There's always been such a bewildering variety of mappings of CP/M blocks to track/head/sector that I wouldn't put any money on the same conversion working for Victor 9000 CP/M-86 disks. In both cases (MS-DOS and CP/M-86), if it proves necessary I'll whip up another simple utility to convert the pseudo-IMD file into a usable raw binary filesystem image.
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 3:41 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > Do you have a prefered CW transition image format? My preference is Discferret.
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Al Kossow wrote: You haven't actually decoded it, you've just captured flux changes. On Mon, 10 Oct 2016, Santo Nucifora wrote: If I am not mistaken, I thought that's what Eric was requesting in his original message. Yes, I believe that what Eric is working on IS the decoding of flux-transition disk images. In particular, those from disk recording systems other than WD/NEC FDC compatible MFM. How do you know what is there is actually correct? Until software is created to write it back to disk in its original format, and test it in the original machine, we can not be sure. HOWEVER, if Eric succeeds in decoding the Victor 9000 (aka Sirius) recording format, then we can look at the content of the disk and get reasonable assumptions. I don't because I am new to the Kryoflux but the log looks okay so I was hoping Eric would know if this was useful. I do know the disk that the flux stream was taken from works because it's original and works in my Victor 9000. I would not have too much confidence in that log. But, those files, if they turn out to be good, seem to be what Eric is asking for! I'm also puzzled when you refer to "IMD" Dave Dunfield's utility? I am referring to what the "fluxtoimd" GitHub page README file states. It says "fluxtoimd.py is a Python 3 program to read floppy disk flux transitions images, demodulate the data, and write the data to an ImageDisk image file". That won't work on a Victor 9000 disk I was curious about that but I'm willing to give anything a try if it helps the preservation process. Therein lies the confusion. IMD is a program, by David Dunfield, to extract the sector contents from disks that are compatible with WD/NEC FDC. It appends the content from the second sector to the end of the first sector, etc. to create a file containing all of the user content, but stripping out all of the sector headers. (The inter-sector material and the track format is already stripped out by the NEC FDC). It is the content of all of the sectors, in a documented file format. What Eric is working on is software that can decode disk formats that are NOT necessarily WD/NEC FDC compatible! And writing a file similar to the one created by IMD. That will most certainly NOT then be convertible by IMD into a Victor 9000 disk! However, OTHER software, that understands the file systems could then extract files. For example, if it is successful, then it might be possible to take the Victor9000 IMD file produced by fluxtoimd, run it through IMD to write that content onto a disk in a WD/NEC compatible format with similarities of parameters other than encoding (eg. Chromemco?), and then read files from that disk using XenoCopy or equivalent. Sorry, but I am not likely to get around to adding IMD file support, nor flux transition support, to XenoCopy. Eric is far more productive than I am. Perhaps one day, he might write something with those capabilities. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 7:22 PM, Al Kossow wrote: > You haven't actually decoded it, you've just captured flux changes. > If I am not mistaken, I thought that's what Eric was requesting in his original message. > How do you know what is there is actually correct? > I don't because I am new to the Kryoflux but the log looks okay so I was hoping Eric would know if this was useful. I do know the disk that the flux stream was taken from works because it's original and works in my Victor 9000. > I'm also puzzled when you refer to "IMD" > Dave Dunfield's utility? > I am referring to what the "fluxtoimd" GitHub page README file states. It says "fluxtoimd.py is a Python 3 program to read floppy disk flux transitions images, demodulate the data, and write the data to an ImageDisk image file". > That won't work on a Victor 9000 disk > I was curious about that but I'm willing to give anything a try if it helps the preservation process. Santo
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
You haven't actually decoded it, you've just captured flux changes. How do you know what is there is actually correct? I'm also puzzled when you refer to "IMD" Dave Dunfield's utility? That won't work on a Victor 9000 disk On 10/10/16 4:12 PM, Santo Nucifora wrote: > http://vintagecomputer.ca/download/victor_9000/CP-M-86. > Victor9000-Kryoflux.Stream.zip
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
Hi Eric, I am a newbie to Kryoflux (it just arrived this past Friday) but I did manage to set it up and try a couple of regular disks. The following link is to my Victor 9000 CP/M-86 boot disk, if I did it correctly. I also included the log file. http://vintagecomputer.ca/download/victor_9000/CP-M-86. Victor9000-Kryoflux.Stream.zip I wasn't familiar with your tool but a quick search turned it up on GitHub. I also have an FDADAP floppy disk adapter for 8" disks but haven't tried that yet. I also haven't figured out how to determine disk characteristics to make floppies yet but I'll learn. I also have several disk formats in 3.5", 5.25" and 8" with equipment to match in most cases. So, in this case, I could try out the resulting IMD file by recreating it and running it on my Victor 9000, if that is helpful. I bought the Kryoflux to save my disks so I'm happy to help with whatever you need. Santo On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > On Oct 10, 2016 3:41 PM, "Al Kossow" wrote: > > Do you have a prefered CW transition image format? > > No preference, as I haven't dealt with them at all yet. >
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On Oct 10, 2016 3:41 PM, "Al Kossow" wrote: > Do you have a prefered CW transition image format? No preference, as I haven't dealt with them at all yet.
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
On Oct 10, 2016 3:33 PM, "Josh Dersch" wrote: > I have a pile of RX50 images at http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/VAX8200/ > in SCP format if that helps... Thanks! I'm not familiar with SCP, but if the file format is documented, I'll add support for it to fluxtoimd.
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
I see a CW 4 and Discferret sitting on my bench, along with a Supercard Pro. I've got a dead CW 3 and a working one ..somewhere that I wanted to do A/B comparisons with. Eric, I had been trying to find time to set up the diskferret, since that was what you originally asked for, but I can more easily do CW right now, though I should go through the exercise of getting it running under Linux, which is a pain because they stole someone elses PCI ID for the card, so you have to blacklist the other device. Do you have a prefered CW transition image format? On 10/10/16 2:20 PM, Kurt K wrote: > Anyone know how you can locate a Discferret and Catweasel? >
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
I have a pile of RX50 images at http://yahozna.dyndns.org/scratch/VAX8200/ in SCP format if that helps... - Josh On Mon, Oct 10, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > Would anyone care to donate floppy disk flux-transition images for use > in development of utility software and for regression-testing the > same? It would be much appreciated. > > Images from "normal" floppy formats (IBM FM and MFM, e.g., TRS-80, IBM > PC, or almost anything using 177x/179x/279x or 765/8272 family > controllers) and obscure formats (DEC RX02, Victor 9000) would be > welcome. I'd especially like to get IBM 23FD "Minnow" disk images, but > I'm not holding my breath for that. > > If you send me any images, a brief description of what they might > contain and/or what system they're from would be helpful. I don't need > to be able to do anything with the content; I just want to verify that > I can extract the content from flux images into sector images. > > If you send me any images that you don't want made public, let me know. > > Thanks! > Eric >
Re: Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
Anyone know how you can locate a Discferret and Catweasel? Sent from my iPhone > On Oct 10, 2016, at 4:08 PM, Eric Smith wrote: > > Would anyone care to donate floppy disk flux-transition images for use > in development of utility software and for regression-testing the > same? It would be much appreciated. > > Images from "normal" floppy formats (IBM FM and MFM, e.g., TRS-80, IBM > PC, or almost anything using 177x/179x/279x or 765/8272 family > controllers) and obscure formats (DEC RX02, Victor 9000) would be > welcome. I'd especially like to get IBM 23FD "Minnow" disk images, but > I'm not holding my breath for that. > > If you send me any images, a brief description of what they might > contain and/or what system they're from would be helpful. I don't need > to be able to do anything with the content; I just want to verify that > I can extract the content from flux images into sector images. > > If you send me any images that you don't want made public, let me know. > > Thanks! > Eric
Any Kryoflux, Discferret, Catweasel, or other floppy flux images wanted
Would anyone care to donate floppy disk flux-transition images for use in development of utility software and for regression-testing the same? It would be much appreciated. Images from "normal" floppy formats (IBM FM and MFM, e.g., TRS-80, IBM PC, or almost anything using 177x/179x/279x or 765/8272 family controllers) and obscure formats (DEC RX02, Victor 9000) would be welcome. I'd especially like to get IBM 23FD "Minnow" disk images, but I'm not holding my breath for that. If you send me any images, a brief description of what they might contain and/or what system they're from would be helpful. I don't need to be able to do anything with the content; I just want to verify that I can extract the content from flux images into sector images. If you send me any images that you don't want made public, let me know. Thanks! Eric
