Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
Many thanks to all those who are helping me!Inviato da smartphone Samsung Galaxy. Messaggio originale Da: cctech-requ...@classiccmp.org Data: 11/06/19 19:00 (GMT+01:00) A: cct...@classiccmp.org Oggetto: cctech Digest, Vol 57, Issue 11 Send cctech mailing list submissions to cctech@classiccmp.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.classiccmp.org/mailman/listinfo/cctechor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to cctech-request@classiccmp.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at cctech-owner@classiccmp.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of cctech digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: SGI IRIX 6.5 Screen Savers (emulated Indy w/ 24-bit XL graphics) running in MAME (Pontus Pihlgren) 2. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 3. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 4. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Peter Corlett) 5. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Peter Corlett) 6. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 7. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 8. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org) (dwight) 9. Old soaftware and documentation (Electronics Plus) 10. June 22 (Electronics Plus) 11. Re: Old soaftware and documentation (Grant Taylor) 12. Re: Old soaftware and documentation (Noel Chiappa) 13. RE: Old soaftware and documentation (Electronics Plus) 14. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Tomasz Rola) 15. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Berger) 16. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Tony Duell) 17. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Chuck Guzis) 18. RE: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Birkel) 19. What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick? (Liam Proven) 20. Re: Modems and external dialers. (Liam Proven) 21. RE: What Makes a PDP-11/35 or 40 Tick? (Paul Birkel) 22. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Berger) 23. Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (Paul Berger)--Message: 1Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:56:30 +0200From: Pontus Pihlgren To: Al Kossow , "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: SGI IRIX 6.5 Screen Savers (emulated Indy w/ 24-bit XL graphics) running in MAMEMessage-ID: <20190610095630.2a3dnxf6dvc75...@update.uu.se>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiThat is impressive! Is it close to real time we are seeing?/POn Thu, Jun 06, 2019 at 10:38:35AM -0700, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:> pretty cool..> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6E0_qgfGGQ> --Message: 2Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 13:57:34 +0200From: Liam Proven Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Subject: Re: Modems and external dialers.Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 13:45, Stefan Skoglund wrote:>> The economist wrote about this (> https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/06/08/how-the-pursuit-of-leisure-drives-internet-use> )>> The current situation is this:> it is much more important for Apple and Samsung to sell overpriced> things to consumers which then basically only will be used to play> games, look on sport games and youtube films.Fair point.And in the tropics, it is more important than ever that a device issealed, waterproof, has no moving parts, etc. -- to keep it tough.Cheap & replaceable are more important than convenient and repairable.> What you used the Psion for will only sell about 4 percent of apples> volumes last year> The screen of the machine i write this on, stands on a sun sparcstation> 10.> If i had that machine running well i would be as productive writing> reports on that one as on the asus tower which i now uses.I know what you mean, and I agree.I just wish a few more companies thought like Planet Computers andtried to make devices for rich niches, rather than the cheap massmarket...https://planetcom.squarespace.com/-- Liam Proven - Profile: https://about.me/liamprovenEmail: lpro...@cix.co.uk - Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven@gmail.comTwitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven - Skype/LinkedIn: liamprovenUK: +44 7939-087884 - ?R (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053--Message: 3Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 13:58:53 +0200From: Liam Proven Cc: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts"Subject: Re: Modems and external dialers.Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"On Sun, 9 Jun 2019 at 13:49, Stefan Skoglund wrote:>> I also hate my samsung a5 mobile - the stupid thing> doesnt have something which the two ericsson mobiles i used before (and> a nokia and i believe a samsung to) had.>> Namely a small led which was on all the time. A great thing when> you need to look for the damn things while it is dark.>> For example in the car or in bed or out i
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
I couldn't see remoting my self more from the design. The JEDIC file is specified, the fuses are numbered why do we need the added steps. I was told the same thing, that there was no way other than to use a PAL compiler. If you really want to confuse things, try using a PALASM or such to move from positive logic to negative logic. Another use for the tristate is to make an OC output. Dwight From: Brian L. Stuart Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 10:44 AM To: Paul Berger; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts; dwight Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 On Tue, 6/11/19, dwight via cctalk wrote: > When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made > a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the > same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was > done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots > on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back I thought I was the only one! Back when I first used a PAL, I also photocopied the page from the databook, marked up the connections I wanted, and then asked my coworkers how to get that programmed into the device. It was pretty annoying to learn I had to convert it to equations first. It seemed like a pointless extra step when the software was just going to turn around and turn the equations back into the matrix wiring I had just marked up. BLS
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 6/11/19 11:40 AM, Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > > Well in this case I have Mr Duell's schematic to go by to determine what > is input an what is output. For the 16L8 tristate is an available > output option that you would need to specify in PLD design and I believe > can be selected individually for each output. In the case of this HAL > it would seem likely that pin 11 tristates all outputs but output 0 at > least when pin 11 is low the output from all the rest is high but I did > not test for tristate as it does not matter in this case since pin 11 is > permanently tied high. That's nice; but in my case, I was sent a couple of PALs to clone without a hint of their origin. So the PAL was essentially a black box and the task was to come up with a box that behaved similarly. --Chuck
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-11 3:17 p.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/11/19 10:54 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: I have just remembered something that I guess you realised some time back... The 16L8 allows you to tri-state outputs under logic control (I think there's one AND term for the output control of each output). I suspect this is used in ths PAL, certainly for things like DMAR0 and DMARdy which go onto the backplane connector (and thus could also be driven by another board). I mentioned in my blog entry that I had a way of detecting this by driving the outputs through a series resistor and sensing the logic level of the pin. In other words, you've already labeled the pin as an output by exhaustively running through input combinations. What's needed is to differentiate a "driven" high level from a tristated one. By driving the outputs low through a series resistance you can determine if an output is high-impedance or not. I explained that badly, but it does work. --Chuck Well in this case I have Mr Duell's schematic to go by to determine what is input an what is output. For the 16L8 tristate is an available output option that you would need to specify in PLD design and I believe can be selected individually for each output. In the case of this HAL it would seem likely that pin 11 tristates all outputs but output 0 at least when pin 11 is low the output from all the rest is high but I did not test for tristate as it does not matter in this case since pin 11 is permanently tied high. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 6/11/19 10:54 AM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > I have just remembered something that I guess you realised some time > back... > > The 16L8 allows you to tri-state outputs under logic control (I think there's > one AND term for the output control of each output). I suspect this is used > in ths PAL, certainly for things like DMAR0 and DMARdy which go onto the > backplane connector (and thus could also be driven by another board). I mentioned in my blog entry that I had a way of detecting this by driving the outputs through a series resistor and sensing the logic level of the pin. In other words, you've already labeled the pin as an output by exhaustively running through input combinations. What's needed is to differentiate a "driven" high level from a tristated one. By driving the outputs low through a series resistance you can determine if an output is high-impedance or not. I explained that badly, but it does work. --Chuck
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 1:50 PM Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > The process documented above is essentially the process I started last > night, but in my case I used a GPIO in my HP 9000-332 to cycle through > the inputs and record the output. It is very handy to have general > purpose parallel I/O for purposes like this. In this case the number of > possible states is reduced as two of the inputs are permanently tied > high. I am well on my well to developing logic equations to feed into > palasm to generate a new JEDEC file which I can then burn into a GAL and > test to see if it is correct. I have just remembered something that I guess you realised some time back... The 16L8 allows you to tri-state outputs under logic control (I think there's one AND term for the output control of each output). I suspect this is used in ths PAL, certainly for things like DMAR0 and DMARdy which go onto the backplane connector (and thus could also be driven by another board). You'll not spot problems with those signals in a 9816 unless you have a DMA controller board in one of the DIO slots, but... -tony
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On Tue, 6/11/19, dwight via cctalk wrote: > When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made > a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the > same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was > done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots > on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back I thought I was the only one! Back when I first used a PAL, I also photocopied the page from the databook, marked up the connections I wanted, and then asked my coworkers how to get that programmed into the device. It was pretty annoying to learn I had to convert it to equations first. It seemed like a pointless extra step when the software was just going to turn around and turn the equations back into the matrix wiring I had just marked up. BLS
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
I realize that most are familiar with using the equations to create the PALs but I'm a circuit person more than an equation person for circuits. When I needed to create a PAL from a schematic, I first made a schematic of what the PAL was suppose to do, using the same basic model of logic that the PAL provided. Once I was done, I took the PAL map from the TI book and made red dots on each of the connections I needed. I'd then go back and add the don't care connections. You know, A*A!. I transposed them to a text file in the JEDEC format ( One needs to add on non-text character as I recall ) I then gave the file to my friend that had a PAL programmer and made the PAL. I made a simple ruler to convert dot locations to column offsets. While, Most seem to like the algebraic formulas, I find it harder to check than a schematic. I had one value that I wasn't sure about that require an experimental PAL blown, as the circuit didn't show if the bank select was 0 or 1 at reset. I've used this method on both the recreation of Jef Raskin's Swyft board and the PAL I needed for my 6532 to 6530 KIM-1 fix ( the KIM took a couple more PALs because as a human, I made some logic mistakes ). Copying a L type PAL is a little simpler but in the case of the Swyft board it was a R type PAL. Doing it from the schematic, and know what it was suppose to do was much simpler than trying every possible combination of clock and data from the pins of a PAL ( that I didn't have anyway ). Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Paul Berger via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 5:54 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 On 2019-06-11 1:19 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > >> You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : >> >> For each combination of inputs : >> Read the outputs >> Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) >> Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have >> changed then there's a sequential function on that input >> Check the next input >>Check the next combination of inputs > For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at > vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and > documented the process. > > FWIW, the setup to do this was a few TTL ICs connected to the parallel > port of a PC. Nowadays, I'd probably do the same with an inexpensive > MCU--the programmable nature of MCU pins lends a certain amount of > flexibility to the process. > > Basically, you separate the inputs from the outputs and then run all > combinations of the inputs, observing the outputs. If the tristate > feature is used on outputs, there's a way to discover the difference > between a tristated pin and a genuine input. > > There are a number of tools to perform reduction on the results, such as > Logic Friday. After that, you're left with a bunch of logic equations > that can be fed into a PAL/GAL assembler and programmed. > > --Chuck Old computer work too, I used a GPIO in a HP 9000-332. Years ago I also created general purpose I/O ports for a PC using 6821 chips since they are way more flexible that the Intel 8255, but the HP 9000 coupled with RMB makes for a great environment to bang out quick programs to do things like this. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-11 1:19 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : For each combination of inputs : Read the outputs Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have changed then there's a sequential function on that input Check the next input Check the next combination of inputs For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and documented the process. FWIW, the setup to do this was a few TTL ICs connected to the parallel port of a PC. Nowadays, I'd probably do the same with an inexpensive MCU--the programmable nature of MCU pins lends a certain amount of flexibility to the process. Basically, you separate the inputs from the outputs and then run all combinations of the inputs, observing the outputs. If the tristate feature is used on outputs, there's a way to discover the difference between a tristated pin and a genuine input. There are a number of tools to perform reduction on the results, such as Logic Friday. After that, you're left with a bunch of logic equations that can be fed into a PAL/GAL assembler and programmed. --Chuck Old computer work too, I used a GPIO in a HP 9000-332. Years ago I also created general purpose I/O ports for a PC using 6821 chips since they are way more flexible that the Intel 8255, but the HP 9000 coupled with RMB makes for a great environment to bang out quick programs to do things like this. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-11 6:17 a.m., Paul Birkel via cctalk wrote: -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:19 AM To: Tony Duell via cctalk Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : For each combination of inputs : Read the outputs Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have changed then there's a sequential function on that input Check the next input Check the next combination of inputs For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and documented the process. http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?329-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-12-The-Trantor-T130B-memory-PAL http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?328-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-11 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?327-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-10 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?326-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-9 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?325-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-8 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?321-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-7) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?320-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-6) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?319-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-5) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?318-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-4) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?316-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-3) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?315-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-2) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?314-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-1) A nice read. When does the article/book get self-published :->? - paul The process documented above is essentially the process I started last night, but in my case I used a GPIO in my HP 9000-332 to cycle through the inputs and record the output. It is very handy to have general purpose parallel I/O for purposes like this. In this case the number of possible states is reduced as two of the inputs are permanently tied high. I am well on my well to developing logic equations to feed into palasm to generate a new JEDEC file which I can then burn into a GAL and test to see if it is correct. Paul.
RE: HP9816 PAL16L8
>-Original Message- >From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis >via cctalk >Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:19 AM >To: Tony Duell via cctalk >Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 > >On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > >> You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : >> >> For each combination of inputs : >>Read the outputs >> Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) >> Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have >> changed then there's a sequential function on that input >> Check the next input >> Check the next combination of inputs > >For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at >vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and >documented the process. http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?330-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-13 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?329-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-12-The-Trantor-T130B-memory-PAL http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?328-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-11 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?327-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-10 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?326-Cloning-a-HAL-PAL-Part-9 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?325-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-Part-8 http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?321-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-7) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?320-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-6) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?319-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-5) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?318-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-4) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?316-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-3) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?315-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-2) http://www.vcfed.org/forum/entry.php?314-Cloning-a-PAL-HAL-(Part-1) A nice read. When does the article/book get self-published :->? - paul
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 6/10/19 8:44 PM, Tony Duell via cctalk wrote: > > You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : > > For each combination of inputs : >Read the outputs > Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) > Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have > changed then there's a sequential function on that input > Check the next input > Check the next combination of inputs For purely combinatorial PLDs, see my blog entry on the subject over at vcfed.org; I did the work to clone a few PALs some years ago and documented the process. FWIW, the setup to do this was a few TTL ICs connected to the parallel port of a PC. Nowadays, I'd probably do the same with an inexpensive MCU--the programmable nature of MCU pins lends a certain amount of flexibility to the process. Basically, you separate the inputs from the outputs and then run all combinations of the inputs, observing the outputs. If the tristate feature is used on outputs, there's a way to discover the difference between a tristated pin and a genuine input. There are a number of tools to perform reduction on the results, such as Logic Friday. After that, you're left with a bunch of logic equations that can be fed into a PAL/GAL assembler and programmed. --Chuck
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 12:23 AM Paul Berger via cctalk wrote: > > > On 2019-06-08 7:14 a.m., Piero Andreini via cctalk wrote: > > desperately looking for jedec file of PAL 16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991 > We can hope that it is all combinational logic and I can run trough all > combinations of inputs and capture the output and we can develop > equations that way as long as they did not do anything like use feedback > to create registers as one person suggested could be done. You can detect sequential logic in the PAL by : For each combination of inputs : Read the outputs Toggle an input (change from 0 to 1 and back again or vice versa) Compare the outputs to what they were before -- if they have changed then there's a sequential function on that input Check the next input Check the next combination of inputs It is my guess that the logic in this PAL is much the same as the DMA logic, etc (but cut down to only support DMA channel 0) of the HP98624 HPIB card. This board uses only TTL, no PAL, so you might be able to work out suitable equations from that. -tony
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On 2019-06-08 7:14 a.m., Piero Andreini via cctalk wrote: desperately looking for jedec file of PAL 16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991 I pulled the CPU board out of my HP9816 and was happy to see that the component in question is in a socket however there is a problem. The component in mine is a HAL16L8 note the "H" I found a datasheet and apparently in the early days of PALs at MMI you could do your development using PALs and then send the equations to MMI and they would produce a mask programmed semi custom chip with the same logic. The problem with this is it does not have a program ROM like a traditional PAL so you cannot extract a valid JEDEC from it, I confirmed this by dumping it as a PAL16L8 and then decompiling the JED file to extract the equations and they are junk, even just browsing the RAW JED looked suspect. We can hope that it is all combinational logic and I can run trough all combinations of inputs and capture the output and we can develop equations that way as long as they did not do anything like use feedback to create registers as one person suggested could be done. Paul.
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)
Yes it’s true but my knowledge is not enough to do it. Maybe you would like to take a look at schematic? http://www.hpmuseum.net/capcha/freecap_wrap.php?r=4020 <http://www.hpmuseum.net/capcha/freecap_wrap.php?r=4020> The output signal /HPIBGr from pin 18 of the PAL (sheet 17) is stuck at 3 Volts (even disconnecting the pin to the pcb), consequently the /DPEn signal always remains at logic level 1, (sheet 12) so the Peripheral Data Bus is never connected to the Processor Data Bus. (pin /enable 74LS245 IC U54 sheet 12) I also tested U93 (sheet 12) driving the signal /HPIBGr by a signal injector and is working. Obviously trying to read the PAL (which doesn't seem to be protected) I got something that doesn't make any sense. Piero > Il giorno 10 giu 2019, alle ore 17:46, dwight ha > scritto: > > Again, is it just an address decoder or something more complicated. One can > often determine the logic by looking at a schematic and knowing what it needs > to do. > Dwight > From: cctech on behalf of Piero Andreini via > cctech > Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 7:58 AM > To: cct...@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org) > > > > L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) > > should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all > > the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same > > (vs reading the fuse data). > > > > -Alan > > > > Good luck. > > unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the > jedec file
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)
> L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) > should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all > the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same > (vs reading the fuse data). > > -Alan > > Good luck. unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the jedec file
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org)
Again, is it just an address decoder or something more complicated. One can often determine the logic by looking at a schematic and knowing what it needs to do. Dwight From: cctech on behalf of Piero Andreini via cctech Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 7:58 AM To: cct...@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 (a...@alanlee.org) > L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) > should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all > the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same > (vs reading the fuse data). > > -Alan > > Good luck. unfortunately I don't have a working PAL, that's why I'm looking for the jedec file
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
On Sat, Jun 8, 2019 at 6:18 PM Alan Hightower via cctech wrote: > > > L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) Not so. The 16L8 has feedback connectoionsfrom the outputs to the logic array. So while there are no registers (D types), you can make SR type circuits in it. -tony
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same (vs reading the fuse data). -Alan Good luck. On 2019-06-08 11:05, Piero Andreini via cctech wrote: desperately looking for jedec file of PAL16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991 for my HP9816
Re: HP9816 PAL16L8
Do you have a schematic that shows what it does. You could write your own file is not really complicated for a 16L8. I wrote my own for my 6532to6530 adapter for the KIM-1. I'll admit I did a logic mistake the first time but I'd have done the same with palasm. Dwight From: cctech on behalf of Alan Hightower via cctech Sent: Saturday, June 8, 2019 10:18 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic Posts Subject: Re: HP9816 PAL16L8 L series are combinatorial only. You (or someone who has a working one) should be able to figure out a logic map by either running through all the input permutation or putting it in a reader that will do the same (vs reading the fuse data). -Alan Good luck. On 2019-06-08 11:05, Piero Andreini via cctech wrote: > desperately looking for jedec file of PAL16L8 position U69 part # > 1820-2991 for my HP9816
HP9816 PAL16L8
desperately looking for jedec file of PAL 16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991
HP9816 PAL16L8
desperately looking for jedec file of PAL16L8 position U69 part # 1820-2991 for my HP9816
