Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread Paul Koning

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 3:39 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> ...
>> 
>> That's true, but the wording implies that the converse holds (360/75
>> programs will run on 360/44) which is usually not true.  "Compatible subset
>> of the ... models" would be clearer.
>> 
> Just like any older / newer computer that is in principle compatible, but
> practically not really.

Not quite.  In the case of the 360/44, it wasn't compatible in principle 
either, not even close and quite intentionally.

paul



Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread Jon Elson


On 12/09/2016 05:46 PM, ste...@malikoff.com wrote:


Thank you for the interesting brochure Bill, as far as I know the Model 44 was
a bit of an odd duck in having a modified instruction set.


The model 44 was a non-microcoded machine, and the lowest model with 
full 32-bit data paths.
(Model 30 was 8 bit!!, model 40 was 16 bits).  The /44 was aimed at 
scientific computing and process control applications.  Yes, certainly 
an odd duck.  It had some other oddities, such as optional integrated 
files (disk drives installed internal to the CPU cabinet) and direct I/O 
support (basically parallel input and output registers).  The /44 lacked 
all character and decimal instructions, but the floating point 
performance was close to (or in some cases can even exceed) the 360/50 
performance.


Jon


Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread steven
Bill said that Paul said:

> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>
>> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
>> >
>> > IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
>> >
>> > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
>>
>> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
>> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes
>> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
>>
>> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of
>> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
>> mentioned anywhere.
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>
> Paul,
> You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
> the page.
>
> I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be compatible
> with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
> comparable and the programs and not time dependent.
>
> Bill

Thank you for the interesting brochure Bill, as far as I know the Model 44 was
a bit of an odd duck in having a modified instruction set.

I have something relevant of my own to contribute: My dad's 360 Reference Card
with his scribbled-on annotations for the Model 44 ie, 2044 CPU:

http://web.aanet.com.au/~malikoff/ibm/IBM_System_360_Reference_Card_with_Model44_2044_CPU_annotations_by_Alec_Malikoff.pdf

The annotations are on pages 1, 2, 5 and 6. I think at least one of the 
universities here
in Oz had a Model 44, I guess he had to service it, but mainly he was a Model 
40 CE.

Steve.



Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread william degnan
On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:56 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
> >>>
> >>> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
> >>
> >> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
> >> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself
> makes
> >> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
> >>
> >> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation
> of
> >> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
> >> mentioned anywhere.
> >>
> >>paul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > Paul,
> > You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
> > the page.
> >
> > I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be
> compatible
> > with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
> > comparable and the programs and not time dependent.
>
> That's true, but the wording implies that the converse holds (360/75
> programs will run on 360/44) which is usually not true.  "Compatible subset
> of the ... models" would be clearer.
>
> paul
>
>
>
Just like any older / newer computer that is in principle compatible, but
practically not really.


Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread Paul Koning

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:56 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
>>> 
>>> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
>> 
>> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
>> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes
>> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
>> 
>> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of
>> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
>> mentioned anywhere.
>> 
>>paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
> Paul,
> You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
> the page.
> 
> I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be compatible
> with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
> comparable and the programs and not time dependent.

That's true, but the wording implies that the converse holds (360/75 programs 
will run on 360/44) which is usually not true.  "Compatible subset of the ... 
models" would be clearer.

paul




Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread COURYHOUSE
yes this is mentioned in the pamphlet...
Ed#
 
 
In a message dated 12/9/2016 12:57:01 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
billdeg...@gmail.com writes:

>  It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation  
of
> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen  it
> mentioned anywhere.


Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread william degnan
On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 1:40 PM, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
> > On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> >
> > IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
> >
> > http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659
>
> Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was
> compatible with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes
> it quite clear that this is not so (no SS instructions).
>
> It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of
> those instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it
> mentioned anywhere.
>
> paul
>
>
>
Paul,
You're right, the brochure says only through the /75, my error.  I fixed
the page.

I should have written programs written for the Model 44 will be compatible
with the System/360 Model 30 through 91, provided the configurations are
comparable and the programs and not time dependent.

Bill


Re: IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread Paul Koning

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 1:22 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968
> 
> http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659

Nice.  The caption is odd; it claims that "... instruction set was compatible 
with the /30 through /91 models" when the pamphlet itself makes it quite clear 
that this is not so (no SS instructions).  

It's curious that the emulation feature, which adds software emulation of those 
instructions, isn't mentioned, and in fact I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

paul




IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet

2016-12-09 Thread william degnan
IBM System/360 Model 44 Pamphlet from Nov 1968

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=659

Bill