Re: IBM Series/1
On 2019-08-06 5:33 a.m., Dave Wade via cctalk wrote: -Original Message- From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jay West via cctalk Sent: 05 August 2019 18:38 To: 'William Donzelli' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' ; 'Stan Sieler' Subject: RE: IBM Series/1 I used to run a system at Anheuser-Busch in the late 80's, ISTR it was a 4331, 4341, or 4381. Under VM/370, It ran SMI's (Systems Management, Inc) Pick/370 OS. IBM terminals could attach direct or via an establishment controller, but dumb serial terminals could connect via the series/1's which acted as a front end processor/aggregator (via a Micom switch that just let you select the Pick/370 machine or one of the many Pr1me's about One Busch Place). There was also a standalone series/1 next to it, which ran CDI's (forget the company name) implementation of Pick for the Series/1. They used this for connecting a bunch of serial ports to timeclocks throughout the plant. Workers coming in and out hit these and there was some Pick/BASIC code that comprised a time & attendance system. Data capture from the timeclocks involved the full character set which normal Pick I/O had issues with, so I wrote a program in Pick Assembler to deal with that and pass sanitized/escaped data back to the host. IBM used the Series/1s to run the door locks in its UK offices. We also had one to provide X.25 interfaces to VM/SP. I never did much on it. I could back it up and edit the config for the X.25 but that was about it... Dave My most distinct memory of this is the simultaneously cute and annoying 'BLEET' sound that each button on the front panel (membrane keypad) made. Fun Times. J IBM used Series/1 to run the badge access systems everywhere. They where also used to run production lines in the plants. In one of my jobs we had two channel attached Series/1 systems, that appeared to the MVS host system as 3274 terminal control units, and where used to create diskettes from images transmitted from another site. I know of three chains of stores that once had Series/1 systems as a back end processor. One of these store had systems without and operator panel or diskette drive, so to run diagnostics on them the service rep had to bring an operator panel and diskette drive with him. A lot of the service reps where not fond of working on them because they where so reliable you could never become good at fixing them unless you had a lot of them in your territory, as a result our branch expert was the guy who serviced the local IBM plant. Paul.
RE: IBM Series/1
> -Original Message- > From: cctalk On Behalf Of Jay West via > cctalk > Sent: 05 August 2019 18:38 > To: 'William Donzelli' ; 'General Discussion: On-Topic > and Off-Topic Posts' ; 'Stan Sieler' > > Subject: RE: IBM Series/1 > > I used to run a system at Anheuser-Busch in the late 80's, ISTR it was a 4331, > 4341, or 4381. Under VM/370, It ran SMI's (Systems Management, Inc) > Pick/370 OS. IBM terminals could attach direct or via an establishment > controller, but dumb serial terminals could connect via the series/1's which > acted as a front end processor/aggregator (via a Micom switch that just let > you > select the Pick/370 machine or one of the many Pr1me's about One Busch > Place). > > There was also a standalone series/1 next to it, which ran CDI's (forget the > company name) implementation of Pick for the Series/1. They used this for > connecting a bunch of serial ports to timeclocks throughout the plant. Workers > coming in and out hit these and there was some Pick/BASIC code that > comprised a time & attendance system. Data capture from the timeclocks > involved the full character set which normal Pick I/O had issues with, so I > wrote > a program in Pick Assembler to deal with that and pass sanitized/escaped data > back to the host. > IBM used the Series/1s to run the door locks in its UK offices. We also had one to provide X.25 interfaces to VM/SP. I never did much on it. I could back it up and edit the config for the X.25 but that was about it... Dave > My most distinct memory of this is the simultaneously cute and annoying > 'BLEET' sound that each button on the front panel (membrane keypad) made. > > Fun Times. > > J >
mid-range IBM systems [was RE: IBM Series/1]
From: Jay West Sent: Monday, August 05, 2019 10:38 AM > I used to run a system at Anheuser-Busch in the late 80's, ISTR it was a > 4331, 4341, or 4381. The 4331, 4361 and 4341 are slightly more than waist high. The 4381 is a high-boy cabinet. Rich Rich Alderson Sr. Systems Engineer Living Computers: Museum + Labs 2245 1st Ave S Seattle, WA 98134 http://www.LivingComputers.org/
RE: IBM Series/1
I used to run a system at Anheuser-Busch in the late 80's, ISTR it was a 4331, 4341, or 4381. Under VM/370, It ran SMI's (Systems Management, Inc) Pick/370 OS. IBM terminals could attach direct or via an establishment controller, but dumb serial terminals could connect via the series/1's which acted as a front end processor/aggregator (via a Micom switch that just let you select the Pick/370 machine or one of the many Pr1me's about One Busch Place). There was also a standalone series/1 next to it, which ran CDI's (forget the company name) implementation of Pick for the Series/1. They used this for connecting a bunch of serial ports to timeclocks throughout the plant. Workers coming in and out hit these and there was some Pick/BASIC code that comprised a time & attendance system. Data capture from the timeclocks involved the full character set which normal Pick I/O had issues with, so I wrote a program in Pick Assembler to deal with that and pass sanitized/escaped data back to the host. My most distinct memory of this is the simultaneously cute and annoying 'BLEET' sound that each button on the front panel (membrane keypad) made. Fun Times. J
Re: IBM Series/1
> From the HP 3000 viewpoint, we weren't worried about the Series/1. Nobody was worried. -- Will
Re: IBM Series/1
> > > The hardware is excellent. They have fairly fast processors, and the > > I/O capacity is great. Reliability is typical IBM. > > > > The OS sucks balls. All the balls. > > > > Commercially, they were not a success, despite being IBM's first > > "open" system, in that they invited third party developers. It seems When I joined HP in mid-1979, the first week I spotted an IBM Series/1 in a small conference room ... with an IBM repairman. The HP engineers had apparently blown out a memory board somehow while "looking" at it :) >From the HP 3000 viewpoint, we weren't worried about the Series/1. Stan
Re: IBM Series/1 (Kevin Bowling)
> > Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2019 12:40:58 -0700 > From: Kevin Bowling > Subject: IBM Series/1 > > Anyone have one of these? I'd like to find a system, but images of > the OS media would be interesting. > > Regards, > Kevin > The RICM has lots of Series/1 systems. They haven't been powered on for decades. You are welcome to explore what we have. http://www.ricomputermuseum.org/Home/equipment/ibm-series1 -- Michael Thompson
Re: IBM Series/1
I'm pretty sure it was intended as a PLC or more precisely a PDP11 competitor as others stated. I am reading an excellent book "The Small Computer Concept" which kind of awe inspiring lays out the need for the Series/1, the ISA, and monitor functions in 400 pages. On Sat, Aug 3, 2019 at 10:29 AM Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > > On 08/02/2019 10:04 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: > > Was IBM Series/1 for process control?Ed# > > > I don't think it was necessarily DESIGNED for process > control, it was a decent 16-bit mini. > But, it did get USED a lot for that application. They were > also used as interfaces from the IBM channel architecture to > serial ports, where the 360/370's were hurt very badly by > interrupt load. > > Jon
Re: IBM Series/1
On 08/02/2019 10:04 PM, ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: Was IBM Series/1 for process control?Ed# I don't think it was necessarily DESIGNED for process control, it was a decent 16-bit mini. But, it did get USED a lot for that application. They were also used as interfaces from the IBM channel architecture to serial ports, where the 360/370's were hurt very badly by interrupt load. Jon
Re: IBM Series/1
On 08/02/2019 09:32 PM, William Donzelli via cctalk wrote: I have a pair, plus parts. The hardware is excellent. They have fairly fast processors, and the I/O capacity is great. Reliability is typical IBM. The OS sucks balls. All the balls. Commercially, they were not a success, despite being IBM's first "open" system, in that they invited third party developers. It seems like every S/1 I have ever seen has some CDC DNA in it, for some reason. They ended up successful within IBM, once they found out they were better comms boxes than the real mainframe boxes (3725, for example). Some S/1s were built specifically for comms use on mainframes (7171). Yes, we used some Series/1 machines at Washington University for async dialup and local terminal use. They had a channel interface, and this worked WAY better than even the Memorex 1270, which still hit the system with a huge amount of interrupts. We also got a disk development lab donated from IBM that was all run by S/1 systems. They scrapped those and a bunch of the SLT/MST interface gear, and replaced it with modern stuff. Jon
Re: IBM Series/1
> Given the little literature I've seen on the subject, and also the > amount of real-time control computers that I've seen in labs being > dismantled... I'd say that it was probably a late IBM response to PDP-11 > and HP 21xx and 1xxx process control computers. That would be correct - and is even shown in the period advertisements from IBM. In keeping with the DEC philosophy, the S/1 was a very open system,and in the mid 1970s, IBM tried to cultivate a sea of third party vendors, as there was for other minicomputer makers at the time. Some ventured in, but the third party market really never grew much. The S/1 was not IBMs first minicomputer by any metric. In process control, for example, the System/7 predated the Series/I, and the 1800 family before that, and the 1710 before that. A System/360 could also do realtime process control using something called a 1070, but very few were used this way. -- Will
Re: IBM Series/1
ED SHARPE via cctalk wrote: Was IBM Series/1 for process control?Ed# writes:In a message dated 8/2/2019 6:18:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org On 08/02/2019 02:40 PM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk wrote: Anyone have one of these? I'd like to find a system, but images of the OS media would be interesting. I have some bits of several Series/1 systems, but no complete system at all. Jon Given the little literature I've seen on the subject, and also the amount of real-time control computers that I've seen in labs being dismantled... I'd say that it was probably a late IBM response to PDP-11 and HP 21xx and 1xxx process control computers. But I did not experience that era (I'm talking only about stuff that I've seen tossed out), so I am probably clueless. carlos.
Re: IBM Series/1
Was IBM Series/1 for process control?Ed# writes:In a message dated 8/2/2019 6:18:22 PM US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org On 08/02/2019 02:40 PM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk wrote: > Anyone have one of these? I'd like to find a system, but images of > the OS media would be interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have some bits of several Series/1 systems, but no complete system at all. Jon
Re: IBM Series/1
I have a pair, plus parts. The hardware is excellent. They have fairly fast processors, and the I/O capacity is great. Reliability is typical IBM. The OS sucks balls. All the balls. Commercially, they were not a success, despite being IBM's first "open" system, in that they invited third party developers. It seems like every S/1 I have ever seen has some CDC DNA in it, for some reason. They ended up successful within IBM, once they found out they were better comms boxes than the real mainframe boxes (3725, for example). Some S/1s were built specifically for comms use on mainframes (7171). -- Will On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 3:41 PM Kevin Bowling via cctalk wrote: > > Anyone have one of these? I'd like to find a system, but images of > the OS media would be interesting. > > Regards, > Kevin
Re: IBM Series/1
On 08/02/2019 02:40 PM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk wrote: Anyone have one of these? I'd like to find a system, but images of the OS media would be interesting. I have some bits of several Series/1 systems, but no complete system at all. Jon
Re: IBM Series/1
I have what appears to be a nice one…I just haven’t had time to do anything with it yet. It does have 2 discs (I think one is 40MB and the other is 300MB). There is a big label on the system that says “DEV’T TOOLS” so I’m hopeful that there’s some interesting SW on it. TTFN - Guy > On Aug 2, 2019, at 12:40 PM, Kevin Bowling via cctalk > wrote: > > Anyone have one of these? I'd like to find a system, but images of > the OS media would be interesting. > > Regards, > Kevin
Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
On 2/22/2017 10:02 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote: On 02/22/2017 09:17 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: I ride both horses and motorcycles and I have never heard that particual phrasing used for a motorcycle. I'd always heard it (for horses) as "rode hard and put up wet". http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rode%20hard%20and%20put%20up%20wet --Chuck Several friends who do a lot of Harley riding use the term with Hogs that were not treated right. I adopted it for such as the Series/1 system which has serious condition issues. The first photos that were dimly lit I thought were the edges of the slip case document binders, and if so were probably shot. Then I realized that the one plate was the metal ID badge. The other labels look bad, as does a lot of the other closeups. I didn't see any photos of the internals either.
Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
On 02/22/2017 09:17 AM, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > I ride both horses and motorcycles and I have never heard that > particual phrasing used for a motorcycle. I'd always heard it (for horses) as "rode hard and put up wet". http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rode%20hard%20and%20put%20up%20wet --Chuck
RE: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Mark Linimon [lini...@lonesome.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 11:45 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 07:33:49AM -0800, jim stephens wrote: > Also, the motorcycle term used to describe this system's condition, is > "ridden hard and put up wet". Hmm, in Texas I have only heard that used to apply to horses. _ I ride both horses and motorcycles and I have never heard that particual phrasing used for a motorcycle. bill
Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
> From: Jim Stephens > Compare to $5000 asking for the full running PDP 11/34 which was listed > (and I think is still wanting for a bid) recently. No, it sold on re-list, for the US$5K asking. Noel
RE: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of jim stephens [jwsm...@jwsss.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:33 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay On 2/22/2017 3:47 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote: > Price is a bit silly > ... the last one sold in the USA went for $200... > > Dave Also, the motorcycle term used to describe this system's condition, is "ridden hard and put up wet". Compare to $5000 asking for the full running PDP 11/34 which was listed (and I think is still wanting for a bid) recently. ___ For $5000 I would even consider selling some of my PDP-11's The best offer I ever had was $100 for everything (about 10 working systems) minus the heavy parts that even the scrapyard usually won't take. bill
Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 07:33:49AM -0800, jim stephens wrote: > Also, the motorcycle term used to describe this system's condition, is > "ridden hard and put up wet". Hmm, in Texas I have only heard that used to apply to horses. mcl
Re: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
On 2/22/2017 3:47 AM, dave.g4...@gmail.com wrote: Price is a bit silly ... the last one sold in the USA went for $200... Dave Also, the motorcycle term used to describe this system's condition, is "ridden hard and put up wet". Compare to $5000 asking for the full running PDP 11/34 which was listed (and I think is still wanting for a bid) recently. I didn't see software, and if there is a hard drive with anything useful in the storage conditions I doubt you will be happy with trying to ever run it. Sad to see it in that condition, and definitely not rare and desirable enough to be worth the price. thanks jim
RE: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay
Price is a bit silly ... the last one sold in the USA went for $200... Dave > -Original Message- > From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Harry > Barman > Sent: 22 February 2017 11:07 > To: cct...@classiccmp.org > Subject: IBM Series/1 listed on UK Ebay > > Just saw this when browsing on ebay... > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-SERIES-1-1976-WHOLE-MACHINE-VERY- > RARE-/272564288456?hash=item3f7618fbc8:g:ZIoAAOSwOgdYrFer
