Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
As far as RX02 formatted 8-inch floppies go, I have some original DEC RT-11 V05.01 RX02 format distribution floppies which I managed to dump to disk images a few years ago. I forget exactly how I did it now. It was either with a real DEC RX02 drive and an M8029 RXV21 controller in a Q-Bus PDP-11 system, or with an Scientific Micro Systems SMS1000 which has an RX02 compatible disk controller on its main "foundation module" for a standard TM848-2E floppy drive. Then I booted 2.11BSD on one of the two PDP-11 systems and simply used "dd" to dump all of the floppy sectors to image files, then used ftp to get the image files out to a modern system. Fortunately I didn't have to deal with any bad sectors. Not sure how that would have complicated things if I did. Next to use those floppy image files with SIMH I had to reshuffle the sector order into new image files copies. The RX02 driver in software does a 2:1 sector interleave, a 6 sector per track skew, and starts at track 1 and wraps around to track 0, which had to be undone. (See the "raxfactr" routine in the 2.11BSC source file src/sys/pdpuba/rx.c)
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Sat, 6 May 2017, Terry Stewart via cctalk wrote:
?Anadisk tells me the disks are Single Sided, Single Density.
It can see ID marks as it tracks a disk but that is all. It can't see
any data.
Could be an RX02 disk as people say
Oh, and sector size is 128 bytes.
Well, yes and no.
the RX02 can do a 128 byte per sector format in FM (single density)
BUT, then it can [OPTIONALLY] replace the content 128 byte FM sectors with
256 byte MFM ("double" density) content, while leaving the FM sector
headers in place.
Resulting in FM headers (that presumably SAY "128 bytes"), with 256
bytes of MFM content.
In addition to the index address mark and related inter sector gaps,
(check out P7 of:
http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/www.bitsavers.org/pdf/shugart/SA8xx/50664-0_SA800_801_Theory_of_Operations_Apr76.pdf
each header would have an ID Address Mark, the cylinder number, the head
number, the sector number, and the sector size (0 for 128, 1 for 256, 2 for 512, 3 for 1024,
but in THIS case, it seems to refer to the space provided rather than the
actual content?), and a 2 byte CRC. After a suitable gap for write
splice, the content has a Data Address Mark, the content, and a 2 byte
CRC. Then another gap before the next sector.
(In THAT exaample, being single sided with 128 byte sectors, both the head
number and sector size are listed as zeroes)
Bill deserves a beer just for his offer to help.
Allison's expertise is worth more than we could afford to pay for.
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Fri, 5 May 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: I didn't mean what I think you thought I meant. correct I apologize The immediate problem is getting data--any data at all. If you can retrieve every sector on the disk, then it's just a matter of software to unravel the filesystem. DEC filesystems in general are pretty well documented, even if you have to wade through the strangeness of things such as RAD50 file names. Yep Sometimes easy, sometimes not Yes, flux-transition (e.g. catweasel) tools do exist for RX02 double-density reading and writing. I've used them in the past. At least one runs under Linux and allows one to copy dd-style sector by sector. good to know! I don't anticipate doing any, but I'm glad to see that somebody has put such together. But first you need the bits. Without those, the filesystem is just a useless abstraction. Quite true. But, it turns out that there are multiple people handy who happen to have the machine. And they could TRIVIALLY accomplish what we would have to put a little bit of work into. If there weren't, then the next step would, indeed be to look at raw images of tracks. Data first--interpretation later. Although, when I have an "unknown" disk, before I launch a sector editor, I type "DIR", just in case it ISN'T anything challenging. I didn't try flux-transition until I failed with my sector editor. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
RE: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
All the PDP-11 ones. The directory listing would give a pretty good idea which one it was. I am prety sure VMS actually could, too. And then you have BSD and Ultrix on the VAX as well. Lots of choices. Believe it or not, I am pretty sure I can make a disk image from the floppies using VTServer that would then work on something like SIMH. Like I said, lots of choices. And it could all be done for the cost of postage I would imagine. I'm retired, and bored, always looking for things to keep me busy. Doesn't look like its going to warm up enough this year to do any work outside. Snow showers predicted for this weekend. :-( bill From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: Friday, May 5, 2017 3:33 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts… On Fri, 5 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > But I thought the problem was that most disk controllers can't do RX02. > Everybody doesn't have a Catweasel or Cryoflux. That's right. Chuck's suggestion would require that somebody who has a flux-transition device (Catweasel, Kryoflux, Central Point Option board, etc.) would have to do the sector imaging. Well, or, . . . somebody who has an RX02 setup, such as you or Allison, could image the sectors, instead of copying the files, which might be appropriate if it turns out that the OS that these were created with is unavailable. How many operating systems use RX02? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: RE: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
> Terry is doing it for fun; we can't expect the others to. On Fri, 5 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: I would. :-) Or maybe for beer. I doubt that Allison will want to underbid THAT!
Re: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Fri, 5 May 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: But I thought the problem was that most disk controllers can't do RX02. Everybody doesn't have a Catweasel or Cryoflux. That's right. Chuck's suggestion would require that somebody who has a flux-transition device (Catweasel, Kryoflux, Central Point Option board, etc.) would have to do the sector imaging. Well, or, . . . somebody who has an RX02 setup, such as you or Allison, could image the sectors, instead of copying the files, which might be appropriate if it turns out that the OS that these were created with is unavailable. How many operating systems use RX02? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
RE: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
I would. :-) Or maybe for beer. bill From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: Friday, May 5, 2017 3:20 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts… >> Not really, in the event they would like them read and we know they >> are RX02 there are a number of people here who likely could read them >> (myself being one of them!) On Fri, 5 May 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Just image them sector-by-sector and let folks fool with the images. > The filesystem details can come later--and are largely irrelevant to the > immediate task at hand. This is a rare occasion that I will disagree with Chuck. Yes, there are situations, where the file system is unknown or not understood, where the best approach is to copy all of the sectors and then let the client determine the rearrangement of those into the files that they want. I've done that - both with having my junior staff wade through them looking for probable sequences, and even handing the client a giant stack of printouts and letting them decide (and then I concatenated the goups of sectors that they wanted) But HERE, one option consists of doing that using flux-transition systems, and probably a significant amount of manual labor. Does software currently exist yet for any of the flux-transition systems to easily handle sector reads from this format? OR the only hardware (other than "flux-transition") that can read such disks also probably runs the operating sytstem(s) that understand that file system! If suitable compensation could be negotiated and arranged, Allison or Bill Gunshannon, for example, could put the disk(s) into machines that have not only the hardware capabilities, but are running the exact software that is called for for getting at the files, and copy the files. That certainly seems more practical than manual regeneration. However, since the situation is one of "we don't know what is on these, and are just CURIOUS", it is likely that there may not be a desire to provide sufficient compensation to whoever might undertake the task. This one is definitely substantially more WORK than "copy the files from this Compupro disk". Terry is doing it for fun; we can't expect the others to. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
Not really, in the event they would like them read and we know they are RX02 there are a number of people here who likely could read them (myself being one of them!) On Fri, 5 May 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Just image them sector-by-sector and let folks fool with the images. The filesystem details can come later--and are largely irrelevant to the immediate task at hand. This is a rare occasion that I will disagree with Chuck. Yes, there are situations, where the file system is unknown or not understood, where the best approach is to copy all of the sectors and then let the client determine the rearrangement of those into the files that they want. I've done that - both with having my junior staff wade through them looking for probable sequences, and even handing the client a giant stack of printouts and letting them decide (and then I concatenated the goups of sectors that they wanted) But HERE, one option consists of doing that using flux-transition systems, and probably a significant amount of manual labor. Does software currently exist yet for any of the flux-transition systems to easily handle sector reads from this format? OR the only hardware (other than "flux-transition") that can read such disks also probably runs the operating sytstem(s) that understand that file system! If suitable compensation could be negotiated and arranged, Allison or Bill Gunshannon, for example, could put the disk(s) into machines that have not only the hardware capabilities, but are running the exact software that is called for for getting at the files, and copy the files. That certainly seems more practical than manual regeneration. However, since the situation is one of "we don't know what is on these, and are just CURIOUS", it is likely that there may not be a desire to provide sufficient compensation to whoever might undertake the task. This one is definitely substantially more WORK than "copy the files from this Compupro disk". Terry is doing it for fun; we can't expect the others to. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Re: Extracting files off unknown 8 inch disks. Any thoughts
>First if they are DEC its one of two formats either FM aka RX01 or FM2 >aka RX02. >(..an in-depth explanation) >How do I know. I have PDP-8, PDP11 (with RX02) and VAX (qbus uVAX, >uVAX2000, and 3100 family). >I used to and still do exchange between RT-11 and CP/M using RX01 mode >and a CP/M utility that >knew RT11 format. IF it was RX02 media, I'd rewrite on the PDP11 to >RX01 media using FIT or other >tools. Thanks for that explanation Allison. I see there are all sorts of complex systems and formats. Based on what I've read, I'll call it quits with this project. The guys in the lab in the next building can take it further if they want to. They didn't want anything specific off the floppies. It was a case of "we want to toss these disks. but perhaps we should copy the stuff off these disks...just in case". Thanks for taking the time to respond. It's been an interesting learning exercise. Terry On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 1:27 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Thank you! > > Now, the question will be whether Allison has some free time to check them > out for Terry. > > > Experience always beats speculation: > > On Thu, 4 May 2017, allison wrote: > >> First if they are DEC its one of two formats either FM aka RX01 or FM2 >> aka RX02. >> >> RX01 base format is 128byte sectors and 26 per track PC can read them. >> >> RX02 base format is 256 bytes per sector byte the timing encoding is >> totally >> unreadable with any LSI controller. It uses FM headers to confuse the >> act. >> To read that you need: >> - RX02 and a compatible system. >> - one of the many DEC clones (DSD, and many others usually using 8X300 >> family chips) in a DEC box (and cpu). >> -Catswesel or one of the other flux readers in a PC. >> >> Note the RX02 drive is dual format, it can read/write rx01 media ( 8" >> SSSD). It can also read and write >> RX02 format or "init" RX01 media to RX02 format and back to RX01. RX02 >> format was unique to DEC >> and the only other that could read or write it were DEC hardware >> compatible controllers. >> >> First you have to satisfy the first (able to read sectors) to do the >> second. >> >> Then the possible 8" ODS formats are >> >> DEC format (RX01 or 2) include PDP-8 family mostly OS8 (odd 12bit >> formatting). >> >> The PDP-11 group RSX, RSTS, RT11, unix, are most common. Note PDT150 >> is also PDP-11 RX01. >> This was the most likely and populous hardware group using RX01/2 disks. >> The Qbus PDP-11 systems could also support RQDX controller for 5.25 and >> 3.5 inch floppies. That made later systems with RX01/02 less common over >> time. >> >> VAX, 11/78x uses a PDP11 (LSI11) to load microcode. It is PDP11 and >> RX01 media. >> Most of the later systems *if* they have 8" RX drives are likely any >> format compatible with >> the PDP-11 group as that's the likely exchange partner/target. >> >> I've not seen VAX format on RX01/2 media, its not impossible except for >> the VAX78x family >> as the PDP11(lsi-11) physically own the drive. To do that it had to >> have a unibus RX controller >> and a RX01/2 drive and then the file format can be anything as VMS had >> utilities for most all the >> PDP11 formats. >> >> Latter vaxen used RL02 or TU58 or other media to load microcode. >> Microvax and later machine >> did not load microcode save for exception code during the normal boot >> sequence. In those >> cases a RX01/2 was unusual to the extreme save for maybe a Qbus microvax >> (not a supported config) >> assembled as a hack. Most of the Qbus VAX systems with floppy used >> RX33(5.25" RX50) or RX23(3.5") >> as the RQDX1/2 controllers supported 5.25" floppies initially and later >> firmware supported 5.25" Teac >> and 3.5" Sony drives as well. RQDX3 5.25" Teac and RX50 and 3.5" Sony >> drives. Because of this >> and far more space per drive RX01/2 was rarely used. The RQDX >> controllers could do the stated >> floppies even is MFM disks were not connected. >> >> Also the VAXes may have run unix and that was likely user save media. >> >> in short if RX01 anything that can read SSSD 8" is good enough. IF RX02 >> a pdp11 and RX02(or third party >> equivalent) makes it easy.To do RX02 on PC you must have a flux >> reader, 765 and later clones cannot. >> >> How do I know. I have PDP-8, PDP11 (with RX02) and VAX (qbus uVAX, >> uVAX2000, and 3100 family). >> I used to and still do exchange between RT-11 and CP/M using RX01 mode >> and a CP/M utility that >> knew RT11 format. IF it was RX02 media, I'd rewrite on the PDP11 to >> RX01 media using FIT or other >> tools. >> >> >> Allison >> >
Re: Re: Extracting files off unknown 8 inch disks. Any thoughts
Thank you! Now, the question will be whether Allison has some free time to check them out for Terry. Experience always beats speculation: On Thu, 4 May 2017, allison wrote: First if they are DEC its one of two formats either FM aka RX01 or FM2 aka RX02. RX01 base format is 128byte sectors and 26 per track PC can read them. RX02 base format is 256 bytes per sector byte the timing encoding is totally unreadable with any LSI controller. It uses FM headers to confuse the act. To read that you need: - RX02 and a compatible system. - one of the many DEC clones (DSD, and many others usually using 8X300 family chips) in a DEC box (and cpu). -Catswesel or one of the other flux readers in a PC. Note the RX02 drive is dual format, it can read/write rx01 media ( 8" SSSD). It can also read and write RX02 format or "init" RX01 media to RX02 format and back to RX01. RX02 format was unique to DEC and the only other that could read or write it were DEC hardware compatible controllers. First you have to satisfy the first (able to read sectors) to do the second. Then the possible 8" ODS formats are DEC format (RX01 or 2) include PDP-8 family mostly OS8 (odd 12bit formatting). The PDP-11 group RSX, RSTS, RT11, unix, are most common. Note PDT150 is also PDP-11 RX01. This was the most likely and populous hardware group using RX01/2 disks. The Qbus PDP-11 systems could also support RQDX controller for 5.25 and 3.5 inch floppies. That made later systems with RX01/02 less common over time. VAX, 11/78x uses a PDP11 (LSI11) to load microcode. It is PDP11 and RX01 media. Most of the later systems *if* they have 8" RX drives are likely any format compatible with the PDP-11 group as that's the likely exchange partner/target. I've not seen VAX format on RX01/2 media, its not impossible except for the VAX78x family as the PDP11(lsi-11) physically own the drive. To do that it had to have a unibus RX controller and a RX01/2 drive and then the file format can be anything as VMS had utilities for most all the PDP11 formats. Latter vaxen used RL02 or TU58 or other media to load microcode. Microvax and later machine did not load microcode save for exception code during the normal boot sequence. In those cases a RX01/2 was unusual to the extreme save for maybe a Qbus microvax (not a supported config) assembled as a hack. Most of the Qbus VAX systems with floppy used RX33(5.25" RX50) or RX23(3.5") as the RQDX1/2 controllers supported 5.25" floppies initially and later firmware supported 5.25" Teac and 3.5" Sony drives as well. RQDX3 5.25" Teac and RX50 and 3.5" Sony drives. Because of this and far more space per drive RX01/2 was rarely used. The RQDX controllers could do the stated floppies even is MFM disks were not connected. Also the VAXes may have run unix and that was likely user save media. in short if RX01 anything that can read SSSD 8" is good enough. IF RX02 a pdp11 and RX02(or third party equivalent) makes it easy.To do RX02 on PC you must have a flux reader, 765 and later clones cannot. How do I know. I have PDP-8, PDP11 (with RX02) and VAX (qbus uVAX, uVAX2000, and 3100 family). I used to and still do exchange between RT-11 and CP/M using RX01 mode and a CP/M utility that knew RT11 format. IF it was RX02 media, I'd rewrite on the PDP11 to RX01 media using FIT or other tools. Allison
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On May 4, 2017 3:30 PM, "Terry Stewart via cctalk" wrote: >Using IMD, or other tools, can you determine the density, bytes per sector, and sectors per track of the disks (try at least 2) >Also, is the data recorded single sided, or both sides? >If you can read it with IMD, then you can start wading through content within sectors to get more clues about what's there. Thanks Fred, Yes, reading them with IMD was one of the first things I tried. Couldn't do it at all. Tons of errors, no tracks could be read. IMD didn't recognise the layout at all. All the disks I tried were like this. Terry If they are DEC RX02 format you won't be able to read them on any standard PC hardware.
Re: Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
>Is your 8 inch setup capable of FM/single density?
>I think that Dave has a utility to test that.
Yes, quite capable. It passes Dave's test and I have read/written in
single density when archiving other stuff. Archiving my FM/single density
POLY and Panasonic stuff was no problem.
http://www.classic-computers.org.nz/blog/2017-04-15-adventures-with-an-8-inch-disk-drive-part3.htm
>It is more likely to be successful in 98 ("real mode")
No, this (at least the executable) was definitely designed to be run in
Windows. It tells me so if I try to start it under pure MS-DOS.
>Do you have access to any sort of "flux-transition" device (Central point
option board, cat-weasel, kryoflux, etc.)?
No. That option is out for me.
Terry
Re: Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Fri, 5 May 2017, Terry Stewart via cctalk wrote: Yes, reading them with IMD was one of the first things I tried. Couldn't do it at all. Tons of errors, no tracks could be read. IMD didn't recognise the layout at all. All the disks I tried were like this. Then, either it is impossible to read with the PC FDC, or we missed something. Is your 8 inch setup capable of FM/single density? I think that Dave has a utility to test that. Do you have access to any sort of "flux-transition" device (Central point option board, cat-weasel, kryoflux, etc.)?
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
>Does your system handle single density? (some FDCs do; some don't) Oh, yes it does.
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
>Using IMD, or other tools, can you determine the density, bytes per sector, and sectors per track of the disks (try at least 2) >Also, is the data recorded single sided, or both sides? >If you can read it with IMD, then you can start wading through content within sectors to get more clues about what's there. Thanks Fred, Yes, reading them with IMD was one of the first things I tried. Couldn't do it at all. Tons of errors, no tracks could be read. IMD didn't recognise the layout at all. All the disks I tried were like this. Terry
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Fri, 5 May 2017, Terry Stewart via cctalk wrote:
They may be CP/M, or some other format entirely.
It turns out these disks are from a VAX machine. Assuming the OS is VMS, I
scoured the Internet for something that might read them.
I don't know anything.but, I will point out a few things to look into.
Eventually I found Hunter Goatley's v 1.3 of Paul Nankervis's ODS2 at
http://vms.process.com/scripts/fileserv/fileserv.com?ODS2 . This program
"Sector 1 read failed 87
PHYIO Error 500 Block 1 Length 512 (ASPI: 0 0 0)
Mount failed with 500"
Chuck G., does anyone know...
1. What that error means?
so far, only that it failed on what was probably the first sector that it
tried. "87" is probably not meningful to anybody except VMS
"PHYIO" MIGHT mean physical I/O
"500" also isn't applicable to other systems.
2. If it would make a difference that I'm
running the Win32 exe in Windows 98, rather than NT, 2000, XP etc.?
It is more likely to be successful in 98 ("real mode")
3. I'm not sure ODS2 was built with 8 inch disks in mind?
No idea. But, other than NEC PC98, machines generally do NOT use the same
format specs on 8:, 5.25, 3.5
Would it make a difference?
absolutely.
If there are more than one format available, then the read program might
1) ASSUME one of the lot
2) have options to choose
3) attempt to detect what it sees.
Besides ODS-2, what about ODS-1 and ODS-5?
Find somebody who knows VMS, and find out what the options were.
CP/M disks in the 8 inch drive can be accessed and read/written to under
MS-DOS by the machine I have the drive hooked up to, so I don't think
it's a hardware issue.
Does your system handle single density? (some FDCs do; some don't)
4. How likely is it that disks from a 1985 VAX is in some weird
proprietary format OTHER than VMS?
quite possible. For example, they might have, at some point in the past,
used a program under VMS to copy their data to some other format that they
thought might be handy, such as SSSD CP/M!
Using IMD, or other tools, can you determine the density, bytes per
sector, and sectors per track of the disks (try at least 2)
Also, is the data recorded single sided, or both sides?
If you can read it with IMD, then you can start wading through content
within sectors to get more clues about what's there.
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: WinNT/2K/XP will read Japanese PC98 MS-DOS 1024*8*2*77, but I don't know if it'll format that particular format (never tried). Doubtful on FORMAT, since that is working from a very short list of choices, but reading (and hence writing) can be based on what it knows or finds out about the disk. Well, FORMAT.EXE on a PC98 machine would certainly know how to do it. Is track 0 sector 1, formatted as 512BPS? If not, how does it even come up with the idea to try 1024BPS? (in order to read it, to find out that it should try it for reading it...) (at location 0Bh in the BIOS Parameter Block, is the bytes per sector, but unless that sector is 512BPS, how did the OS read it to know to use that?) BPB doesn't include the number of tracks, but it does have the sectors per track, heads, and total number of sectors. It also has the "Media Descriptor Byte", but I wouldn't rely too much on that.)
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
>>It may also be that is just doesn't support 77 and can only do 80 tracks. >I don't think it is this. I can format it fine with 77 tracks using 22DSK and IMD. It has no problem reading or >writing to 77 track formatted disks. Oh sorry Dwight, I thought you meant the drive here. You mean MS-DOS 6.22 I guess. Terry (Tez)
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017, dwight via cctalk wrote: Some times it reads part of the disk. I don't know what it is looking at but it won't format over some types of original data. I've often erased with supper magnet to get past such stuff. That really got silly when they added "UNFORMAT"! It may also be that is just doesn't support 77 and can only do 80 tracks. SOME version used to. Not any more. In the very early days, you could buy MS-DOS on 8"!
Re: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
>Let's start with determining the hardware aspects to see whether Terry's machines are capable of reading the disks. Yes, this is the first step for me. Last night I pulled out an MS-DOS 486 that seems capable. It can read/write single density according to TESTFDC. This is the machine I'll use. There will be a hiatus in the project while I get the connecting hardware organised. Then we will see what we will see. Hopefully the drive itself works. I don't know that for sure yet. Thanks for all comments and advice. Terry
RE: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Fred Cisin via cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 10:38 AM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts… On Thu, 23 Mar 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > Let's not forget UCSD-Pascal or RT-11. :-) Lot's of formats, some easier to > recover than others. Let's start with determining the hardware aspects to see whether Terry's machines are capable of reading the disks. Deciphering the file system structures can come after we know whether it is going to be possible. UCSD p-system, for example, is trivially easy to do IFF it is a hardware compatible recording system. _ Well, I can throw my hat in the ring of people with the capabilites to read 8" floppies. Nothing set up at the moment, but I can set things up realtively easily if needed. bill
Re: RE: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
On Thu, 23 Mar 2017, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Let's not forget UCSD-Pascal or RT-11. :-) Lot's of formats, some easier to recover than others. Let's start with determining the hardware aspects to see whether Terry's machines are capable of reading the disks. Deciphering the file system structures can come after we know whether it is going to be possible. UCSD p-system, for example, is trivially easy to do IFF it is a hardware compatible recording system. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
What kind of science lab? There are a couple of different lab computers to do things like chemical analysis. It could be a number of different. things. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Terry Stewart via cctalk Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 8:39:48 PM To: Fred Cisin; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts… Thanks Guys, Now I'm intimidated (-: Just kiddingthat's useful stuff Fred. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I'll give it a go...and see what I can see. If anything it's a good excuse for me to wire the drive up. I'd like to image those Panasonic disks one day for posterity and at least I should be able to do that. Chuck, in the highly likely event of the formats NOT being common CP/M or DOS ones (i.e. ones I could probably manage), I'll give these guys your email (-: Cheers Terry (Tez) On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Once you've got sectors, speak up, and we'll give you more things to >>> look at. >>> >> > On Wed, 22 Mar 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> Fred, how about the image of a Compugraphic typesetter floppy I have? >> It uses Hebrew for its code set. >> Feel up to it? >> > > Nope. > You're much better at it than I am. > I was just trying to be encouraging, and suggesting some preliminary > things that he could start with. > > > Some disks were easy. > And there were plenty that I never could figure out. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com >
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
Thanks Guys, Now I'm intimidated (-: Just kiddingthat's useful stuff Fred. Thanks for taking the time to type all that out. I'll give it a go...and see what I can see. If anything it's a good excuse for me to wire the drive up. I'd like to image those Panasonic disks one day for posterity and at least I should be able to do that. Chuck, in the highly likely event of the formats NOT being common CP/M or DOS ones (i.e. ones I could probably manage), I'll give these guys your email (-: Cheers Terry (Tez) On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > Once you've got sectors, speak up, and we'll give you more things to >>> look at. >>> >> > On Wed, 22 Mar 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> Fred, how about the image of a Compugraphic typesetter floppy I have? >> It uses Hebrew for its code set. >> Feel up to it? >> > > Nope. > You're much better at it than I am. > I was just trying to be encouraging, and suggesting some preliminary > things that he could start with. > > > Some disks were easy. > And there were plenty that I never could figure out. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com >
Re: Re: Extracting files off “unknown” 8 inch disks. Any thoughts…
Once you've got sectors, speak up, and we'll give you more things to look at. On Wed, 22 Mar 2017, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: Fred, how about the image of a Compugraphic typesetter floppy I have? It uses Hebrew for its code set. Feel up to it? Nope. You're much better at it than I am. I was just trying to be encouraging, and suggesting some preliminary things that he could start with. Some disks were easy. And there were plenty that I never could figure out. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
