RE: PATA hard disks, anyone?
I'll take them all please. Let me know the cost of shipping. Thanks. Kip -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy N. via cctalk Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 10:33 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: PATA hard disks, anyone? The new sysadmin at work is clearing out closets full of junk^H^H^H^H cool old stuff accumulated by the previous sysadmin. There's a big carton full of PATA hard disks. Most of them are in the 4.3 GB - 20 GB range, a few larger, a few smaller. Anyone have any use for these? You can have them for the cost of shipping, or free for local pickup in Bothell, WA. They're going to be recycled as scrap if I don't find a home for them.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Bill, I have a 30 year old IBM SCSI drive that still works great. Yes, every company has had good drives and bad drives. I have had Quantum drives that have lasted for decades and I have had ones that died in a year. :) GOD Bless and Thanks, rich! On 3/28/2018 5:03 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 03/28/2018 01:04 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 03/27/2018 08:27 PM, dwight wrote: I recall at one company we used Micropolous ( SP? ) drives. We had almost 100% failure in less than 6 months. It did our company a lot of damage. A lot of outfits (e.g. Sun, HP) used Micropolis drives. Generally, they were good, but expensive. Maybe you're thinking of Miniscribe. I have ancient Micropolis and Miniscribe disks here that still work great. Seems every company went thru at least one model that was trash. The worst from my experience were IBM disks made in Thailand. bill
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/28/2018 05:03 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > I have ancient Micropolis and Miniscribe disks here that still > work great. Seems every company went thru at least one > model that was trash. The worst from my experience were > IBM disks made in Thailand. Were there ever any *good* JTS PATA drives? --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/28/2018 01:04 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > On 03/27/2018 08:27 PM, dwight wrote: >> I recall at one company we used Micropolous ( SP? ) drives. We had >> almost 100% failure in less than 6 months. It did our company a lot of >> damage. > A lot of outfits (e.g. Sun, HP) used Micropolis drives. Generally, they > were good, but expensive. > > Maybe you're thinking of Miniscribe. > > I have ancient Micropolis and Miniscribe disks here that still work great. Seems every company went thru at least one model that was trash. The worst from my experience were IBM disks made in Thailand. bill
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 28 March 2018 at 01:43, Chuck Guzis via cctalkwrote: > Digging around on the pointer from Al to backblaze, I found this, which, > to me is far more meaningful in terms of presentation of data: > > https://hackernoon.com/applying-medical-statistics-to-the-backblaze-hard-drive-stats-36227cfd5372 Remarkable and fascinating. The charts for Seagate are especially reliable. It came as a surprise to me. In 30y in the business, almost anyone involved in selecting, specifying, purchasing, or maintaining hardware inevitably has _strong_ opinions on the reliability, or lack thereof, of certain brands of hard disk. Personally, I've used them _all_. I've seen several-decades-old hard disks working perfectly, I've seen brand new drives fail, I've watched batches of them die progressively. They can _all_ fail. I have no angels or demons -- I have seen random sudden failures of every vendor known to humanity, and superb longevity from every vendor too. But if there's a general trend, it's that the bigger, the more fragile. I have decade-old 300GB drives in routine use that are fine. I've also had multiple failures of new multi-terabyte-class drives, to my personal cost. -- Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
I have a couple of applications where I want the largest THIN 2.5" SATA drive. Currently, that is the 2TB Seagate/Samsung. 2TB and up SSDs will be here. Eventually. Comparing "internal"/"external" prices, it seems to cost about $30 to have the external USB3 case removed and discarded. I have found those drives to be even more reliable than an Exatron Stringy Floppy. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 06:04 Chuck Guzis via cctalkwrote: > On 03/27/2018 08:27 PM, dwight wrote: > > I recall at one company we used Micropolous ( SP? ) drives. We had > > almost 100% failure in less than 6 months. It did our company a lot of > > damage. > > A lot of outfits (e.g. Sun, HP) used Micropolis drives. Generally, they > were good, but expensive. > > Maybe you're thinking of Miniscribe. > Micropolis quality dropped way down towards the end - at Dreamworks we used to refer to it as "Micropolis - for all your data loss needs"
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/27/2018 08:27 PM, dwight wrote: > I recall at one company we used Micropolous ( SP? ) drives. We had > almost 100% failure in less than 6 months. It did our company a lot of > damage. A lot of outfits (e.g. Sun, HP) used Micropolis drives. Generally, they were good, but expensive. Maybe you're thinking of Miniscribe. --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
I recall at one company we used Micropolous ( SP? ) drives. We had almost 100% failure in less than 6 months. It did our company a lot of damage. Dwight From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 5:27:32 PM To: Ali via cctalk Subject: Re: PATA hard disks, anyone? > Interesting but consistent with my informal observations. My Hitachi > enterprise class 4gb hdd are still going strong after multiple power > outages and almost 5 years of 24x7 on time. Granted not much reading > and writing occurs but the fact that they are spinning is probably > the biggest wear and tear on them. Helium drives? Only if you have > the money to replace them yearly and have a RAID 1 set of a RAID 6 > volume I took a look at my 1TB drive stash. They're branded as Toshiba, which, I believe are really Hitachi. So maybe not so bad. But on those charts, the 3TB Seagate really shows an astonishing failure rate... --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Hitachi 3 and 4tb are VERY good, as are the equivalent Toshiba from when WD divested themselves of the Hitachi hi-end line. Been runnning 4 HGST 4TB for a long while now at home and have been really happy. My best disks. 1tb was the switchover point to vertical recording, so those (and esp seagate 1.5tb) are terrible Ah, have a bunch of used 1.5TB seagates and there was about a 70% failure rate but I assumed it was due to age on disk and going from 24x7 to off for a few months then back on. Hoping to move off of those onto 30TB of WD disks soon if the drives aren't totally dead. I have a few helium-filled drives spinning. They've been fine, but I don't know for how long yet. Have a few HGST 8TB He drives at $work, out of 50 or so maybe 1 failure in 2 years. Very solid but our most expensive drives until you get into flash storage. I'm interested to hear how the 12TB Seagates perform. A friend I believe got a few hundred in so it will be interesting in a year to hear if they're reliable or not.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
> Interesting but consistent with my informal observations. My Hitachi > enterprise class 4gb hdd are still going strong after multiple power > outages and almost 5 years of 24x7 on time. Granted not much reading > and writing occurs but the fact that they are spinning is probably > the biggest wear and tear on them. Helium drives? Only if you have > the money to replace them yearly and have a RAID 1 set of a RAID 6 > volume I took a look at my 1TB drive stash. They're branded as Toshiba, which, I believe are really Hitachi. So maybe not so bad. But on those charts, the 3TB Seagate really shows an astonishing failure rate... --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Original message From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Date: 3/27/18 4:43 PM (GMT-08:00) To: "Tapley, Mark via cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Subject: Re: PATA hard disks, anyone? Digging around on the pointer from Al to backblaze, I found this, which, to me is far more meaningful in terms of presentation of data: Interesting but consistent with my informal observations. My Hitachi enterprise class 4gb hdd are still going strong after multiple power outages and almost 5 years of 24x7 on time. Granted not much reading and writing occurs but the fact that they are spinning is probably the biggest wear and tear on them. Helium drives? Only if you have the money to replace them yearly and have a RAID 1 set of a RAID 6 volume -Ali
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Digging around on the pointer from Al to backblaze, I found this, which, to me is far more meaningful in terms of presentation of data: https://hackernoon.com/applying-medical-statistics-to-the-backblaze-hard-drive-stats-36227cfd5372 --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/27/2018 04:04 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > Hitachi 3 and 4tb are VERY good, as are the equivalent Toshiba from when WD > divested themselves > of the Hitachi hi-end line. Hmmm, I haven't actually installed a 1TB drive in any mission-critical equipment yet--still sitting in original packaging on a shelf. Mostly, I use 500GB drives. Haven't had a failure in years. Maybe I'll leave the drives shelved. I suppose I could donate them to some deserving kid, but that might be cruel. --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 3/27/18 12:44 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > Am I being silly? Hitachi 3 and 4tb are VERY good, as are the equivalent Toshiba from when WD divested themselves of the Hitachi hi-end line. 1tb was the switchover point to vertical recording, so those (and esp seagate 1.5tb) are terrible I have a few helium-filled drives spinning. They've been fine, but I don't know for how long yet.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Are they functional or decorative? 3TB Seagate They will likely fail. Defective model. Know someone that doesn't even RMA them, straight to trash. Replaces them with WD. (Note that all Seagate models have the issue, just something wrong with a 3TB model.) - Ethan -- : Ethan O'Toole
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Eric, my 17 yo son is building up a gaming computer out of a Mac Pro. If you are serious about getting rid of these, I might encourage him to set up a Raid 5 with 3 of them and 1 or 2 spares. I would think it would read and write pretty fast until it broke, and then he could transition the data to a more robust drive or set of drives. Meantime, if I’m wrong, it’s not very critical data to lose. Let me know if that seems like a reasonable deal, and if so what you’d want above shipping. - Mark 210-522-6025 office 210-379-4635cell On Mar 27, 2018, at 1:48 PM, Eric Smith via cctalkwrote: > On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk > wrote: > >> and well... let's just say that "newer" used disks with 4 years on them >> aren't very reliable. >> > > If anyone wants some Seagate ST3000DM001 drives (3TB SATA), I've got extras! > :-(
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: It's probably foolish and irrational, but I somehow just don't trust the bargain-basement 4TB drives to perform long-term. Am I being silly? Not really. Have you looked at the drive statistics published by Backblaze? Here's a report for the 3rd quarter of 2017: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-failure-rates-q3-2017/ Seagate drives are the worst out there, while HGST drives seem to last the longest. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/27/2018 09:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk wrote: > I have a hook-up to get some older drives from another company (1.5TB, > etc) and well... let's just say that "newer" used disks with 4 years on > them aren't very reliable. I'd imaigne the older ones hold up much > better since they were more expensive and less density. Call it superstition on my part, but for other than a couple of 2TB drives used for backup (i.e. powered and run only occasionally), my working drives are mostly 500GB-1TB SATA models. It's probably foolish and irrational, but I somehow just don't trust the bargain-basement 4TB drives to perform long-term. Am I being silly? --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
From: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> To: et...@757.org, "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:48:22 AM Subject: Re: PATA hard disks, anyone? On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: and well... let's just say that "newer" used disks with 4 years on them aren't very reliable. If anyone wants some Seagate ST3000DM001 drives (3TB SATA), I've got extras! :-( I bet they'd fit great in a clay pidgeon thrower. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Are they functional or decorative? From: "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> To: et...@757.org, "cctalk" <cctalk@classiccmp.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 11:48:22 AM Subject: Re: PATA hard disks, anyone? On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > and well... let's just say that "newer" used disks with 4 years on them > aren't very reliable. > If anyone wants some Seagate ST3000DM001 drives (3TB SATA), I've got extras! :-(
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 10:19 AM, Ethan via cctalkwrote: > and well... let's just say that "newer" used disks with 4 years on them > aren't very reliable. > If anyone wants some Seagate ST3000DM001 drives (3TB SATA), I've got extras! :-(
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/27/2018 09:19 AM, Ethan via cctalk wrote: > Yep! I've watched thousand(s) of pounds of working hard drives get > shredded. This is nothing new. In the 1970s, the official CDC diktat was to reduce any surplused equipment to scrap. That included taking a sledgehammer to disk drives and other objects. I witnessed lots of functional gear done in this way. Apparently this was to prevent surplus parts finding their way into the supply stream--and then having to service them. --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
The advantages of working for a small company... the sysadmin is a long-time employee who's just moved into that role, he and I are good buddies. And there's not anything worth $$$ data recovery on them anyway. I hate seeing perfectly good working equipment reduced to low-value scrap, so I'm wiping these drives at home on my own time to prevent that. Yep! I've watched thousand(s) of pounds of working hard drives get shredded. I have a hook-up to get some older drives from another company (1.5TB, etc) and well... let's just say that "newer" used disks with 4 years on them aren't very reliable. I'd imaigne the older ones hold up much better since they were more expensive and less density. -- : Ethan O'Toole
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Mon, 2018-03-26 at 11:18 -0700, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > I'm surprised that your sysadmin is allowing this to happen. Many large > outfits have a policy of sending any hard disk, regardless of content to > the industrial shredders. The advantages of working for a small company... the sysadmin is a long-time employee who's just moved into that role, he and I are good buddies. And there's not anything worth $$$ data recovery on them anyway. I hate seeing perfectly good working equipment reduced to low-value scrap, so I'm wiping these drives at home on my own time to prevent that.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 07:44:58PM +0200, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: > On 26 March 2018 at 19:34, Tomasz Rola via cctalk> wrote: > > > > I have heard good things of MHDD diagnostic/repair program in the > > context of low level format and generally checking health of spinning > > disks. > > That's a new one on me. > > I have occasionally used, and often recommend, DBAN -- Darik's Boot And Nuke. > > https://dban.org/ Interesting. But judging from descriptions, mhdd is very different tool/beast. Not that I can recommend one over another, having no experience (when in trouble, I just ran dd over the disk or parts of it). http://hddguru.com/software/2005.10.02-MHDD/ -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
Only somebody working for the NSA would bother trying to do that. Going from theory to practice can be VERY expensive and time consuming. -Original Message- From: Ethan via cctalk Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 3:26 PM To: Chuck Guzis ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: R: PATA hard disks, anyone? Certainly, but it's fruitless to use logic in cases such as these. Chances are that someone once read the paper from the 1990s that said it was possible to recover overwritten data from a drive using, IIRC, an STM--at a rate of what was it? 1 kbit per hour? AFAIK there has been a bounty out to recover data with a single wipe that hasn't been collected. I thought it was all theory and never done in practice? -- : Ethan O'Toole --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 03/25/2018 07:32 PM, Guy N. via cctalk wrote: > The new sysadmin at work is clearing out closets full of junk^H^H^H^H > cool old stuff accumulated by the previous sysadmin. There's a big > carton full of PATA hard disks. Most of them are in the 4.3 GB - 20 GB > range, a few larger, a few smaller. > > Anyone have any use for these? You can have them for the cost of > shipping, or free for local pickup in Bothell, WA. They're going to be > recycled as scrap if I don't find a home for them. I'm surprised that your sysadmin is allowing this to happen. Many large outfits have a policy of sending any hard disk, regardless of content to the industrial shredders. --Chuck
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On 26 March 2018 at 19:34, Tomasz Rola via cctalkwrote: > > I have heard good things of MHDD diagnostic/repair program in the > context of low level format and generally checking health of spinning > disks. That's a new one on me. I have occasionally used, and often recommend, DBAN -- Darik's Boot And Nuke. https://dban.org/ -- Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 06:22:04AM -0700, Guy N. via cctalk wrote: [...] > I have to wipe the drives before I ship them -- my word of honor to the > sysadmin. I have probably a couple dozen done now that I can ship right > away. The rest will trickle out a little bit slower after that. > > When I said "big carton" I meant it. There are plenty for everyone. I have heard good things of MHDD diagnostic/repair program in the context of low level format and generally checking health of spinning disks. Strangely, I have never had a chance to use it, so far. It seems like there is freeware version, able to boot from CD? HTH -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
I've had more replies to this offer than I expected! I'll make a general reply here, and contact everyone who responded off-list. I think the simplest and most cost-effective way to ship these is a USPS Priority Mail flat rate box. I have to wipe the drives before I ship them -- my word of honor to the sysadmin. I have probably a couple dozen done now that I can ship right away. The rest will trickle out a little bit slower after that. When I said "big carton" I meant it. There are plenty for everyone.
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:32 PM, Guy N. via cctalk>> wrote: >> >> The new sysadmin at work is clearing out closets full of junk^H^H^H^H >> cool old stuff accumulated by the previous sysadmin. There's a big >> carton full of PATA hard disks. Most of them are in the 4.3 GB - 20 GB >> range, a few larger, a few smaller. > > On 26 March 2018 at 05:29, Adrian Stoness via cctalk > wrote: > > those are the ibm server ones right? No. PATA means parallel ATA, that is, EIDE. It covered all EIDE versions, original 40-wire 16 MB/s and the later 80-wire 33, 66, 100, & 133 MB/sec standards. In theory it also embraces pre-*E* IDE, that is, IDE, the old sub-540MB non-LBA IDE drives. -- Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
Re: PATA hard disks, anyone?
those are the ibm server ones right? On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:32 PM, Guy N. via cctalkwrote: > The new sysadmin at work is clearing out closets full of junk^H^H^H^H > cool old stuff accumulated by the previous sysadmin. There's a big > carton full of PATA hard disks. Most of them are in the 4.3 GB - 20 GB > range, a few larger, a few smaller. > > Anyone have any use for these? You can have them for the cost of > shipping, or free for local pickup in Bothell, WA. They're going to be > recycled as scrap if I don't find a home for them. > >