Re: Reading ROMs
They do not make bipolar proms any more. you can find them on ebay sometimes some functions can be emulated by fast pals. but not code storage. Old arcade games use them for all sorts of things. some old arcade game repair sites also sell the ICs http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=82S129&_sacat=0 On 9/6/2015 4:38 PM, Marc Verdiell wrote: > Jay, Mike, John, > Thanks for the helpful information. It just dawned onto me that these were > "write once" PROMs, not modern EEPROMs. Duh. So you get one shot at doing it > right... > The Data I/Os on ebay seem to be quite a bit more than $100 right now, I'll > keep looking. I guess none of the modern ebay Chinese ones would do? Also > where can you get the blanks? Any modern equivalents here too? > Marc > > - > Jay West wrote: > The Data I/O 29B works perfectly for those old fusable link proms. > > John Robertson wrote: > One can pick up a Data I/O 29B and Unipak II off eBay starting around > $100USD (ish). There is a very good support group on yahoo groups: > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Data_IO_EPROM > > Mike Loewen wrote: > I used a Data I/O 29B programmer to burn the PROMs, with a Unipak 2B. > The blank PROMs were variously Signetics N82S141, MMI 6341-1 and National > 74S474. Along with the 12821A HP-IB board, you also need a Boot Loader > PROM, 12992H (12992-80004). The boot loader PROM is a Signetics N82S129 or > equivalent. For installation information about the firmware PROMs, see > manual 12791-90001 (HP 1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and > Reference Manual). For boot loader information, see manual 12792-90001 (HP > 12992 Loader ROMs Installation Manual). > > > -- The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are intended solely for the use of the named addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized use, copying, disclosure, or distribution of the contents of this e-mail is strictly prohibited by the sender and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail.
Re: Reading ROMs
On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 5:38 PM, Marc Verdiell wrote: > It just dawned onto me that these were "write once" PROMs, [...] > I guess none of the modern ebay Chinese ones would do? I'd suspect not, since bipolar PROMs are long obsolte. > where can you get the blanks? The usual surplus IC sources. > Any modern equivalents here too? The only ones still being made are military, for really big bucks.
RE: Reading ROMs
Jay, Mike, John, Thanks for the helpful information. It just dawned onto me that these were "write once" PROMs, not modern EEPROMs. Duh. So you get one shot at doing it right... The Data I/Os on ebay seem to be quite a bit more than $100 right now, I'll keep looking. I guess none of the modern ebay Chinese ones would do? Also where can you get the blanks? Any modern equivalents here too? Marc - Jay West wrote: The Data I/O 29B works perfectly for those old fusable link proms. John Robertson wrote: One can pick up a Data I/O 29B and Unipak II off eBay starting around $100USD (ish). There is a very good support group on yahoo groups: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Data_IO_EPROM Mike Loewen wrote: I used a Data I/O 29B programmer to burn the PROMs, with a Unipak 2B. The blank PROMs were variously Signetics N82S141, MMI 6341-1 and National 74S474. Along with the 12821A HP-IB board, you also need a Boot Loader PROM, 12992H (12992-80004). The boot loader PROM is a Signetics N82S129 or equivalent. For installation information about the firmware PROMs, see manual 12791-90001 (HP 1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and Reference Manual). For boot loader information, see manual 12792-90001 (HP 12992 Loader ROMs Installation Manual).
RE: Reading ROMs
List of blank for 21MX and microcode : That would be very usefull. Thanks in advance --- L'absence de virus dans ce courrier électronique a été vérifiée par le logiciel antivirus Avast. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
RE: Reading ROMs
On Thu, 3 Sep 2015, Jay West wrote: Marc wrote HP 1000. Not only the standard 24 pin ROMs but the small 14 or 16 pin bootloader ROMs that Jay showed me at VCF. What would be a good ROM programmer that could read and write these of older HP equipment ROMs? --- The Data I/O 29B works perfectly for those old fusable link proms. With optional additional attachments, it can program more "modern" devices as well. I have a list of the various blanks needed for 21MX loader roms, and the two different blanks needed for microcode. I'll dig that up and post tomorrow. From my notes on upgrading my 2109E to run RTE-6/VM: "I used a Data I/O 29B programmer to burn the PROMs, with a Unipak 2B. The blank PROMs were variously Signetics N82S141, MMI 6341-1 and National 74S474. Along with the 12821A HP-IB board, you also need a Boot Loader PROM, 12992H (12992-80004). The boot loader PROM is a Signetics N82S129 or equivalent. For installation information about the firmware PROMs, see manual 12791-90001 (HP 1000 M/E/F-Series Firmware Installation and Reference Manual). For boot loader information, see manual 12792-90001 (HP 12992 Loader ROMs Installation Manual)." Mike Loewen mloe...@cpumagic.scol.pa.us Old Technology http://q7.neurotica.com/Oldtech/
Re: Reading ROMs
On 09/03/2015 8:45 PM, Jay West wrote: Marc wrote HP 1000. Not only the standard 24 pin ROMs but the small 14 or 16 pin bootloader ROMs that Jay showed me at VCF. What would be a good ROM programmer that could read and write these of older HP equipment ROMs? --- The Data I/O 29B works perfectly for those old fusable link proms. With optional additional attachments, it can program more "modern" devices as well. I have a list of the various blanks needed for 21MX loader roms, and the two different blanks needed for microcode. I'll dig that up and post tomorrow. J One can pick up a Data I/O 29B and Unipak II off eBay starting around $100USD (ish) Make sure it powers up before buying it with no error messages showing. Seller should show picture of the display with the model and revision code showing. There is a very good support group on yahoo groups: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Data_IO_EPROM They have an extensive file system and I have some Data I/O stuff too here: ftp://ttl.arcadetech.org/TTL/Test_Equipment John :-#)# John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
Re: Reading ROMs
On 3 September 2015 at 10:15, John Robertson wrote: > Some of the early ROMs had extra voltages and unusual select logic and for > those you either need to make an adapter or get an ancient Eprom programmer > to be able to read them. > > I use Data I/O 29B with a Unipak for most of my old timers, but have a > Pro-Log unit for the 1702s as well as an Andromeda programmer/reader. The > Andromeda is pretty flexible in what it will read - it also reads 1702s - > but for burning I use the 29B or the Pro-Log for the earliest chips. > > What is the part number of the device you are trying to read? Vlad, are you > by any chance close to Vancouver BC and thus able to drop by my shop where > we could read your device and provide you with the file? I am not sure about the part number it was under the sticker with the ROM version (which btw was 09121 15510 REV A) and I put it back into the unit. I will take it out and look at it again. Unfortunately I am at the opposite on the diagonal from you (Orlando, FL). Regards, Vlad. > > John :-#)# > > -- > John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 > Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) > www.flippers.com > "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out" >
Re: Reading ROMs
On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 6:57 PM, Vlad Stamate wrote: > I am not sure about the part number it was under the sticker with the > ROM version (which btw was 09121 15510 REV A) and I put it back into > the unit. The PCA silkscreen diagram in the service manual shows F2364, which is an 8Kx8 masked ROM. The silkscreen shows a 28-pin footprint, but it is not clear whether the device is a 24-pin or 28-pin chip. If it is a 24-pin chip, it should be possible to read it with an EPROM programmer configured for the Motorola MCM68764 or MCM68766 EPROMs. For an EPROM programmer which does not support the MCM6876x, it's possible to wire an adapter: http://www.mess.org/dumping/2364_mask_roms
RE: Reading ROMs
Marc wrote HP 1000. Not only the standard 24 pin ROMs but the small 14 or 16 pin bootloader ROMs that Jay showed me at VCF. What would be a good ROM programmer that could read and write these of older HP equipment ROMs? --- The Data I/O 29B works perfectly for those old fusable link proms. With optional additional attachments, it can program more "modern" devices as well. I have a list of the various blanks needed for 21MX loader roms, and the two different blanks needed for microcode. I'll dig that up and post tomorrow. J
RE: Reading ROMs
Some ROM don't have the same enables as 2716 or other EPROMs. I usually make up a header that I ensure that the programming voltage can't get to the ROM and I make high low switches for the various select lines. Then I use a standard eprom programmer to read ROMs. I could make something with an Arduino but don't have the need. Can you be clearer about what your problem was? Dwight
RE: Reading ROMs
I was going to ask a similar question here, and I am sure it has been asked before. I do have a HP 82901 and a HP 9121 but I am not equipped to read ROMs, so I can't really help yet. Plus I will soon need the ability to burn ROMs for my HP 85 and HP 1000. Not only the standard 24 pin ROMs but the small 14 or 16 pin bootloader ROMs that Jay showed me at VCF. What would be a good ROM programmer that could read and write these of older HP equipment ROMs? Marc --- From: Vlad Stamate Subject: Reading ROMs While I was trying to read the ROM in my 9121 for Eric Smith I found out that my Wellon VP-280 could not do it (it could not recognize it and only read FF FF FF FF). I could use it however to dump the ROM of an IBM PS2 that I cannot boot anymore (so it is not entirely useless). So I am asking what you all use to dump various ROMs from vintage PCs/peripherals/etc? Is there a good brand out there of E(E)PROM programmer? Do you roll your own solution with an Arduino/RaspeberryPi? Thanks, Vlad. ---
Re: Reading ROMs
At 07:56 AM 9/3/2015, Vlad Stamate wrote: >So I am asking what you all use to dump various ROMs from vintage >PCs/peripherals/etc? For 1980s ROMs I still use the Serial EPROM Programmer published in BYTE by Steve Ciacia in the mid-80s. Dale H. Cook, Roanoke/Lynchburg, VA Osborne 1 / Kaypro 4-84 / Kaypro 1 / Amstrad PPC-640 http://plymouthcolony.net/starcity/radios/index.html
Re: Reading ROMs
On 09/03/2015 4:56 AM, Vlad Stamate wrote: While I was trying to read the ROM in my 9121 for Eric Smith I found out that my Wellon VP-280 could not do it (it could not recognize it and only read FF FF FF FF). I could use it however to dump the ROM of an IBM PS2 that I cannot boot anymore (so it is not entirely useless). So I am asking what you all use to dump various ROMs from vintage PCs/peripherals/etc? Is there a good brand out there of E(E)PROM programmer? Do you roll your own solution with an Arduino/RaspeberryPi? Thanks, Vlad. Some of the early ROMs had extra voltages and unusual select logic and for those you either need to make an adapter or get an ancient Eprom programmer to be able to read them. I use Data I/O 29B with a Unipak for most of my old timers, but have a Pro-Log unit for the 1702s as well as an Andromeda programmer/reader. The Andromeda is pretty flexible in what it will read - it also reads 1702s - but for burning I use the 29B or the Pro-Log for the earliest chips. What is the part number of the device you are trying to read? Vlad, are you by any chance close to Vancouver BC and thus able to drop by my shop where we could read your device and provide you with the file? John :-#)# -- John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, VideoGames) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
Re: Reading ROMs
You may know all of this but just in case ...Assuming you have reader that can detect ROM type and compatible with ROM you are trying to read. May be jumper change required? For example my Logical Systems Shooter has a different jumper thay must be installed for each EPROM type. Bill Degnan twitter: billdeg vintagecomputer.net On Sep 3, 2015 7:56 AM, "Vlad Stamate" wrote: > While I was trying to read the ROM in my 9121 for Eric Smith I found > out that my Wellon VP-280 could not do it (it could not recognize it > and only read FF FF FF FF). I could use it however to dump the ROM of > an IBM PS2 that I cannot boot anymore (so it is not entirely useless). > > So I am asking what you all use to dump various ROMs from vintage > PCs/peripherals/etc? Is there a good brand out there of E(E)PROM > programmer? Do you roll your own solution with an > Arduino/RaspeberryPi? > > Thanks, > Vlad. >
Reading ROMs
While I was trying to read the ROM in my 9121 for Eric Smith I found out that my Wellon VP-280 could not do it (it could not recognize it and only read FF FF FF FF). I could use it however to dump the ROM of an IBM PS2 that I cannot boot anymore (so it is not entirely useless). So I am asking what you all use to dump various ROMs from vintage PCs/peripherals/etc? Is there a good brand out there of E(E)PROM programmer? Do you roll your own solution with an Arduino/RaspeberryPi? Thanks, Vlad.
