Re: Serial keyboards

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:51 PM, Eric Smith  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk 
> > wrote:
> Yes, I’ve been dealing with the morons who strip the keyboards off of (now 
> rare) IBM 327x terminals,
> cut the connectors off and wire them up to PS/2 or USB.  May they burn in 
> hell.
> 
> I have an IBM 1389194, which is a 122-key model M, apparently for a 3192 G 
> series terminal, with APL keycaps. I do not have such a terminal; someone 
> else separated the keyboard from it.  I wouldn't mind getting a 3192 
> terminal, but I'm not willing to spend much money on one.
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/22368471@N04/25859890091/ 
> 
> 
> I'm converting it into a USB keyboard, but I'm doing it in a fully reversible 
> manner.  If I burn in hell, I hope it's not because of modifying this 
> keyboard.
> 

;-)

I have that keyboard on one of my 3179 terminals.  It would be *really* useful 
if I had a 3179-G because then it could render the APL characters.  ;-)

TTFN - Guy

Re: Serial keyboards

[Alexandre Souza via cctalk]

Btw...I need a vt-340 keyboard with people willing to send it to Brazil. I
got a (uber rare here) vt-340 in nice condition, but keyboardless :(

And I still hope I'll find someday a complete vt-100 here :)

Enviado do meu Tele-Movel

On Jun 7, 2017 11:26 AM, "Pete Lancashire via cctalk" 
wrote:

I'm a Teletype collector.  I was told of someone who got two machines from
an estate. After tracking down and getting a hold of said person, he had
behind his garage a pile of the Teletypes and typewriters, on all of them
the keytops were ripped off and the machines left for scrap rusting away
while awaiting a trip to a scrap yard.
-pete



On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 11:51 PM, Eric Smith via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > Yes, I’ve been dealing with the morons who strip the keyboards off of
> (now
> > rare) IBM 327x terminals,
> > cut the connectors off and wire them up to PS/2 or USB.  May they burn
in
> > hell.
> >
>
> I have an IBM 1389194, which is a 122-key model M, apparently for a 3192 G
> series terminal, with APL keycaps. I do not have such a terminal; someone
> else separated the keyboard from it.  I wouldn't mind getting a 3192
> terminal, but I'm not willing to spend much money on one.
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/22368471@N04/25859890091/
>
> I'm converting it into a USB keyboard, but I'm doing it in a fully
> reversible manner.  If I burn in hell, I hope it's not because of
modifying
> this keyboard.
>
> Eric
>
> "Why this is hell, nor am I out of it."
> - Christopher Marlowe, The Tragical History of the Life and Death of
Doctor
> Faustus
>
>

Re: Serial keyboards

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 3:48 PM, Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> Yes, I’ve been dealing with the morons who strip the keyboards off of (now
> rare) IBM 327x terminals,
> cut the connectors off and wire them up to PS/2 or USB.  May they burn in
> hell.
>

I have an IBM 1389194, which is a 122-key model M, apparently for a 3192 G
series terminal, with APL keycaps. I do not have such a terminal; someone
else separated the keyboard from it.  I wouldn't mind getting a 3192
terminal, but I'm not willing to spend much money on one.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/22368471@N04/25859890091/

I'm converting it into a USB keyboard, but I'm doing it in a fully
reversible manner.  If I burn in hell, I hope it's not because of modifying
this keyboard.

Eric

"Why this is hell, nor am I out of it."
- Christopher Marlowe, The Tragical History of the Life and Death of Doctor
Faustus

Re: Serial keyboards

[Paul Berger via cctalk]

On 2017-06-06 5:40 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote:

If you look on the ebay for a dolch ethernet sniffer, you'll see

many with no keyboard.

Why would someone separate the keyboard from a box when it

is clipped onto it?

These are not just any keyboard. They have custom shaped cases

and connector specifically for that model dolch.

What would anyone want with those keyboards?

Dwight



I managed to get one complete with keyboard, but it is an awful keyboard 
I don't know why anyone would want one.


Paul.

RE: Serial keyboards

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

Do you want complete terminals and keyboards? The reason they like the 
keyboards is because of the feel of the typing. Sometimes they come with the 
monitors, and they have no use for them, so they get dumpstered. If you look on 
elecshopper.com I did have about 20 of these heavy old boards, but none at the 
present time. I do know where some of the monitors are, but not keyboards.

Cindy

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Guy Sotomayor 
Jr via cctalk
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 4:49 PM
To: Anthony DeStefano; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: Serial keyboards


> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Anthony DeStefano via cctalk 
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:40 PM, dwight via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> If you look on the ebay for a dolch ethernet sniffer, you'll see
>> 
>> many with no keyboard.
>> 
>> Why would someone separate the keyboard from a box when it
>> 
>> is clipped onto it?
>> 
>> These are not just any keyboard. They have custom shaped cases
>> 
>> and connector specifically for that model dolch.
>> 
>> What would anyone want with those keyboards?
>> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it's because the mechanical keyboard crowd canabalizes old 
> keyboards for keycaps and very rarely switches.  These days you can sell a 
> set of keycaps for more multiples of what a working, complete system will 
> fetch.
> 

Yes, I’ve been dealing with the morons who strip the keyboards off of (now 
rare) IBM 327x terminals, cut the connectors off and wire them up to PS/2 or 
USB.  May they burn in hell.

TTFN - Guy

RE: Serial keyboards

[Electronics Plus via cctalk]

It is not often you find a 9-pin serial board with Windows keys!
I might have some AT serial boards in the back, but I don't think they work 
on DEC machines.

Cindy

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Henry Bond via 
cctalk
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 4:53 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Subject: Serial keyboards 

I have been looking around the Internet for a good resource on serial keyboards 
and have found that I have come up against something of a brick wall, I have 
found this device Look at this on eBay  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112428059043. 

So list, which keyboards are your favourite, which feel the best and which are 
relatively easy to get hold of? 


-- H

Re: Serial keyboards

[Santo Nucifora via cctalk]

I think I'm gonna get in trouble for this answer but while I am not a
keyboard collector, I do buy keyboards when the opportunity arises.

In my particular case, I started out with occasionally buying computers
with missing keyboards because they were inexpensive; far more then when
they had the keyboard.  I would wait for the keyboard to come up for sale
(hopefully) and try to buy it.  Sometimes, the keyboard cost more than the
computer system.

I tried to find out what the fascination was because there couldn't be that
many people looking for the keyboard to complete a system and found the
keyboard enthusiast forums.  I posted some info about my IMSAI IKB-1 (the
War Games keyboard that was matches with the early IMSAI 8080 in that
movie) because it was being discussed as almost being mythical.  I then
started posting pictures of my other keyboards.  These guys collected
keyboards while I collected computers and most came with the keyboard for
free.  I had a built-in keyboard collection.

Yes, there are many who collect mechanical keyboards because they are
interested in the construction of the key switches and the key tops.  As
with anything, the old adage goes, "They don't make them like they used
to".  Keyboards made today are garbage.  They are rubber domed keyboards
with cheap key caps that yellow over time and the type face literally wears
off.  The early construction is top notch in many cases and far superior to
what is available today.  Many of the early keyboard manufacturers have
gone to thin rubber keyboards.  Consider IBM.  The PC and terminal
keyboards could be used as weapons. Today, they crumble.

I am not making excuses for keyboard collectors because they are orphaning
terminals and computer systems that they go with.  I even posted an analogy
that they could understand.  There are people who collect key switches and
key caps only.  They don't even keep and cherish the keyboard these parts
come from!  I stated that a keyboard collector to a computer collector is
like a switch collector to a keyboard collector.  It goes down to that
level.  These switches and key tops are reused on new mechanical keyboard
construction projects.

This is where the Dolch PAC fits in.  The Dolch PAC fits into the key
switch/key cap collector's realm.  These Dolch key caps are used for other
projects because they fit new key switches.  In fact, Massdrop has a
replica set for sale here:https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dsa-dolch-key-set

I bought a Dolch PAC to collect because I wanted to see the keyboard to see
what the fuss was about but mainly because it had Network General's Network
Sniffer software and a full set of manuals.

Sadly, we have to compete with keyboard collectors.  There are lots of
systems without keyboards.  Just last night I reached out to someone with
an IBM 5251 terminal with, you guessed it, no keyboard.  Ad here:
https://westernmass.craigslist.org/sys/6162646378.html  I do have a small
collection of terminals and am trying to save that one from destruction but
it will cost a fair bit to ship and the seller wants it picked up.  If
anyone can save it, please do.

I have also helped out some people who needed a keyboard.  I swapped a
non-working Zenith Z-100 keyboard for my working keyboard with someone from
the Yale library who was an archivist.  It allowed them to get their Z-100
running and archive some diskettes.  I've also bought some keyboards that I
have been able to pair with their systems and have functional examples
again.  In the case of the IBM 5251, I bought the matching keyboard from
someone in Greece, if I recall, a couple of years ago.  This, however, is
only a small part of my collecting.  I also now occasionally buy keyboards
that are interesting.  They are mostly worthless to keyboard collector and
they don't go with systems because they are newer but they are pretty cool.


So that's basically the story.  They collect keyboards like we collect
computers.  I don't agree with what they do and I make that clear whenever
I get the chance but they collect something and I can't fault them for
that.

I hope this helps explain the keyboard phenomenon.

Santo

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 4:40 PM, dwight via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
wrote:

> If you look on the ebay for a dolch ethernet sniffer, you'll see
>
> many with no keyboard.
>
> Why would someone separate the keyboard from a box when it
>
> is clipped onto it?
>
> These are not just any keyboard. They have custom shaped cases
>
> and connector specifically for that model dolch.
>
> What would anyone want with those keyboards?
>
> Dwight
>
>
> 
> From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Dave Wade via
> cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 2:02:34 AM
> To: 'Henry Bond'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'; 'Al
> Kossow'
> Sub

Re: Serial keyboards

[Guy Sotomayor Jr via cctalk]

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 2:46 PM, Anthony DeStefano via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:40 PM, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
>> 
>> If you look on the ebay for a dolch ethernet sniffer, you'll see
>> 
>> many with no keyboard.
>> 
>> Why would someone separate the keyboard from a box when it
>> 
>> is clipped onto it?
>> 
>> These are not just any keyboard. They have custom shaped cases
>> 
>> and connector specifically for that model dolch.
>> 
>> What would anyone want with those keyboards?
>> 
> 
> Unfortunately, it's because the mechanical keyboard crowd canabalizes old 
> keyboards for keycaps and very rarely switches.  These days you can sell a 
> set of keycaps for more multiples of what a working, complete system will 
> fetch.
> 

Yes, I’ve been dealing with the morons who strip the keyboards off of (now 
rare) IBM 327x terminals,
cut the connectors off and wire them up to PS/2 or USB.  May they burn in hell.

TTFN - Guy

Re: Serial keyboards

[Anthony DeStefano via cctalk]

> On Jun 6, 2017, at 4:40 PM, dwight via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> If you look on the ebay for a dolch ethernet sniffer, you'll see
> 
> many with no keyboard.
> 
> Why would someone separate the keyboard from a box when it
> 
> is clipped onto it?
> 
> These are not just any keyboard. They have custom shaped cases
> 
> and connector specifically for that model dolch.
> 
> What would anyone want with those keyboards?
> 

Unfortunately, it's because the mechanical keyboard crowd canabalizes old 
keyboards for keycaps and very rarely switches.  These days you can sell a set 
of keycaps for more multiples of what a working, complete system will fetch.


-A

Re: Serial keyboards

[dwight via cctalk]

If you look on the ebay for a dolch ethernet sniffer, you'll see

many with no keyboard.

Why would someone separate the keyboard from a box when it

is clipped onto it?

These are not just any keyboard. They have custom shaped cases

and connector specifically for that model dolch.

What would anyone want with those keyboards?

Dwight



From: cctalk <cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org> on behalf of Dave Wade via cctalk 
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 6, 2017 2:02:34 AM
To: 'Henry Bond'; 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'; 'Al 
Kossow'
Subject: RE: Serial keyboards



> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Henry
> Bond via cctalk
> Sent: 06 June 2017 00:49
> To: Al Kossow <a...@bitsavers.org>; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Subject: Re: Serial keyboards
>
> Seems somewhat counterintuitive / or simply is it just business?

Just business. Its made worse by the fact that DEC keyboards were considered 
reliable, and cheap compared to the terminals and so often discarded, but the 
terminals kept s spares.
I believe that the later PS2 variety could also be used on a PC with emulation 
software. Good keyboards are rare...

> Am I just going to have to pay over the odds for a good condition one
> whether I like it or not?

"Over the odds" implies that its over the market value. The odds are that a 
good DEC terminal keyboard will go for "top dollar"..
... especially in the UK and as that was a UK link I assume you are in the UK...

>
> On 6 June 2017 00:30:17 BST, Al Kossow via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >On 6/5/17 3:12 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote:
> >> the same price for the keyboard as the terminal is greedy.
> >
> >
> >Welcome to the world of the keyboard collector, who buys up keyboards
> >and leaves terminals and classic computers behind, rendering them
> >useless.
>
> -- H

Dave
G4UGM

Re: Serial keyboards

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 6/5/17 3:12 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk wrote:
> the same price for the keyboard as the terminal is greedy. 


Welcome to the world of the keyboard collector, who buys up keyboards
and leaves terminals and classic computers behind, rendering them useless.

Re: Serial keyboards

[Anders Nelson via cctalk]

Hi Henry, what's your ultimate goal? I imagine you'll have a better
selection if you perform some simply protocol translation on a
microcontroller, perhaps USB->serial.

=]

--
Anders Nelson

+1 (517) 775-6129

www.erogear.com

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Henry Bond via cctalk <cctalk@classiccmp.org
> wrote:

> I have been looking around the Internet for a good resource on serial
> keyboards and have found that I have come up against something of a brick
> wall, I have found this device Look at this on eBay
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112428059043.
>
> So list, which keyboards are your favourite, which feel the best and which
> are relatively easy to get hold of?
>
>
> -- H
>

Serial keyboards

[Henry Bond via cctalk]

I have been looking around the Internet for a good resource on serial keyboards 
and have found that I have come up against something of a brick wall, I have 
found this device Look at this on eBay  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/112428059043. 

So list, which keyboards are your favourite, which feel the best and which are 
relatively easy to get hold of? 


-- H