Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 6:10 PM, Mouse via cctalk wrote: >> I'm not sure about the MicroVax II but on some other VAX and Alpha >> machines, the console port may be less capable than ordinary terminal >> ports in the way of buffering, flow control, 8 bit support and so on. > > The KA630, the MicroVAX-II CPU board (which includes the console serial > port), has a relatively limited serial port. For example, it has only > a byte or two of buffering in each direction, it cannot be used > directly from userland even if the kernel wants to let it (it is > accessed with MFPR and MTPR instructions), it has no software baudrate > control, and various other limitations. > > These have concomitant benefits for console use, such as no software > setup being required to get small numbers of characters transferred. > But they do rather cripple it for voluminous data transfer. If you > have an at-least-mildly-smart serial port card (eg, with substantial > hardware buffering capability, and/or with DMA capability), you will > probably get better performance with it. It was 8-bit clean. And did allow for connection of a printer to it, though a relatively simple one. We wound up in the end, though, not using it except in a pinch. The limitations were just a bit too much to give reliable behavior for anything other than having a DECwriter II or VT220 connected to it. We had a 4-port serial card to connect the plotter, and a few other specialty devices we needed for our VaxStation II (which had the same KA630 CPU board and a graphics board). Warner
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On 03/11/2017 07:19 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: On 3/11/2017 4:11 PM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: I can't run DecWindows on a MicroVax II with 11MB of memory, so I loaded the basic support files for DecWindows. Are you sure? I can run the old XUI DecWindows on VMS 5.5-2 (the newest VMS that will support XUI) in monochrome on a VaxStation 2000 with just 6MB. It's not very fast but it works. As far as I recall, it worked in colour when it had a GPX card installed. Regards, Peter Coghlan You know, I don't actually know... I have run DecWindows from a microVax 4000-400 with ~350MB of memory. I assumed that the burden would be too much for the smaller Vax. I ran DecWindows on a MicroVAX-II with probably 1 MB of memory. That may have been a bit weak, I did upgrade the system to 5 MB. It ran fine. First with a VCB-01 (monochrome) and then updated to a VCB-02 (8-bit color). Jon
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On 3/11/2017 4:11 PM, Peter Coghlan via cctalk wrote: I can't run DecWindows on a MicroVax II with 11MB of memory, so I loaded the basic support files for DecWindows. Are you sure? I can run the old XUI DecWindows on VMS 5.5-2 (the newest VMS that will support XUI) in monochrome on a VaxStation 2000 with just 6MB. It's not very fast but it works. As far as I recall, it worked in colour when it had a GPX card installed. Regards, Peter Coghlan You know, I don't actually know... I have run DecWindows from a microVax 4000-400 with ~350MB of memory. I assumed that the burden would be too much for the smaller Vax.
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
> I'm not sure about the MicroVax II but on some other VAX and Alpha > machines, the console port may be less capable than ordinary terminal > ports in the way of buffering, flow control, 8 bit support and so on. The KA630, the MicroVAX-II CPU board (which includes the console serial port), has a relatively limited serial port. For example, it has only a byte or two of buffering in each direction, it cannot be used directly from userland even if the kernel wants to let it (it is accessed with MFPR and MTPR instructions), it has no software baudrate control, and various other limitations. These have concomitant benefits for console use, such as no software setup being required to get small numbers of characters transferred. But they do rather cripple it for voluminous data transfer. If you have an at-least-mildly-smart serial port card (eg, with substantial hardware buffering capability, and/or with DMA capability), you will probably get better performance with it. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people hooked graphics terminals to VAXes. I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the laptop as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal. I would suggest using a terminal port other than the console port on the VAX to display graphics (and especially for file transfer). I'm not sure about the MicroVax II but on some other VAX and Alpha machines, the console port may be less capable than ordinary terminal ports in the way of buffering, flow control, 8 bit support and so on. Regards, Peter Coghlan.
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
I can't run DecWindows on a MicroVax II with 11MB of memory, so I loaded the basic support files for DecWindows. Are you sure? I can run the old XUI DecWindows on VMS 5.5-2 (the newest VMS that will support XUI) in monochrome on a VaxStation 2000 with just 6MB. It's not very fast but it works. As far as I recall, it worked in colour when it had a GPX card installed. Regards, Peter Coghlan
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On Sat, 3/11/17, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > One of the things that I tried > was running kermit inside the xterm window, I was able to > connect to the Vax but was unable to test the graphics portion. There are two things that come to mind as possibilities. First, if xterm isn't getting switched into Tek mode, who knows what you'll see displayed. To force it into Tek mode, start it with the -t option or in a vt100 xterm window do a ctrl-middle click and you'll get a menu where you can select "Switch to Tek Mode." The other possibility is that depending on setting, kermit might not be 8-bit clean. IIRC the Tek escape codes need the terminal line to be in 8-bit mode. When I'm connecting to a device speaking the Tek escape codes, I usually use cu instead, and it's generally worked pretty well for me. BLS
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 10:39 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > On 3/11/2017 12:08 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen via cctalk wrote: >> >> On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk >> wrote: >>> >>> I like using the laptop as a console because I can log my terminal >>> session >>> while I'm installing software, etc. Kermit on debian linux comes without >>> any terminal emulation for some reason. >> >> In general, kermit under Linux (and other unix-like operating systems) >> expect you to start kermit from the terminal emulator of your choice, >> and "inherits" whatever terminal emulation you have started it from. >> FWIW, I've successfully done vt100 with kermit started from xterm. > > This is one of the things I will revisit. I'm still trying to compile > programs on the vax that are designed to plot directly to a tek terminal > connected to a serial port. PGPLOT has a very nicely constructed set of > *.com files for VMS but some of the routines are for DECW$. I can't run > DecWindows on a MicroVax II with 11MB of memory, so I loaded the basic > support files for DecWindows. The problem before was that PGPLOT wanted to > link to some of the DECW libraries and use some of the DECW header files. I > hope they are there now. We will see. On the VAXstation II that I ran in college for one of the departments we would do TEK plots all the time. The programs that did them would send an escape sequence that would kick the normally VT100-ish terminal emulator on screen into Tektronics 401x emulation and then send the sequence of tektronics escape sequences to do the plot. We'd then take a screen shot of the plot if we needed to print it quickly (but at low quality) on the laser printer, or we'd fire up the Tektronics Plotter and redirect the output there if we were doing photo-ready for a conference or paper. This was all on VMS 5.4 running DISSPLA... We did have 16MB of memory, though Warner
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On 3/11/2017 12:08 PM, Torfinn Ingolfsen via cctalk wrote: On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: I like using the laptop as a console because I can log my terminal session while I'm installing software, etc. Kermit on debian linux comes without any terminal emulation for some reason. In general, kermit under Linux (and other unix-like operating systems) expect you to start kermit from the terminal emulator of your choice, and "inherits" whatever terminal emulation you have started it from. FWIW, I've successfully done vt100 with kermit started from xterm. This is one of the things I will revisit. I'm still trying to compile programs on the vax that are designed to plot directly to a tek terminal connected to a serial port. PGPLOT has a very nicely constructed set of *.com files for VMS but some of the routines are for DECW$. I can't run DecWindows on a MicroVax II with 11MB of memory, so I loaded the basic support files for DecWindows. The problem before was that PGPLOT wanted to link to some of the DECW libraries and use some of the DECW header files. I hope they are there now. We will see. One of the things that I tried was running kermit inside the xterm window, I was able to connect to the Vax but was unable to test the graphics portion. Are you sure that your xterm has Tektronix graphics emlation compiled in / enabled? I haven't tested graphics emulation yet, because I don't have a vintage machine that supports it. Yes, xterm on debian linux works fine. I'm trying to test exactly that, run programs on a vintage computer that produce graphs on an emulated terminal. HTH
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 5:14 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: > > I like using the laptop as a console because I can log my terminal session > while I'm installing software, etc. Kermit on debian linux comes without > any terminal emulation for some reason. In general, kermit under Linux (and other unix-like operating systems) expect you to start kermit from the terminal emulator of your choice, and "inherits" whatever terminal emulation you have started it from. FWIW, I've successfully done vt100 with kermit started from xterm. > One of the things that I tried was > running kermit inside the xterm window, I was able to connect to the Vax but > was unable to test the graphics portion. Are you sure that your xterm has Tektronix graphics emlation compiled in / enabled? I haven't tested graphics emulation yet, because I don't have a vintage machine that supports it. HTH -- Regards, Torfinn Ingolfsen
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
I've tried many different things. xterm does do the TEK emulation. Inside of xterm I can connect to the Vax with kermit. seyon is part of Debian and claims to do what I want, but I haven't got it to work yet. Complaints about 'No profile with UUID or name Seyon exists'. Someone else said MS-DOS Kermit will do the emulation. I'm warming up to that, because there is another DOS program called Conex that runs under DOS and will do the emulation of 4014 plus 4105 (you get color!). The laptop I am using is a DELL Precision M4300, has serial port for this. I have a floppy drive for it that replaces the DVD drive... Maybe I'll try that... Doug On 3/10/2017 1:09 PM, Randy Dawson wrote: xterm will do your Tek 4014 emulation. There should be lots of Tek stuff in X11, they were one of the original consortium members. While you are fishing around for software to run, I have MOVIE.BYU from one of the guys here. ISSCO's DISPLA should be around, but I have not found it. Look on youtube, there are a bunch of of clips of folks doing just what you are about to do. Randy *From:* cctalk on behalf of Douglas Taylor via cctalk *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2017 7:00 PM *To:* General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts *Subject:* Tektronix Terminal Emulation I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people hooked graphics terminals to VAXes. I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the laptop as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal. On the MicroVax I have just started with PGPLOT and MIIPS, which are scientific plotting packages that run on Vaxes. I would like to use the laptop to emulate a Tek terminal connected to the Vax through a serial port, but there doesn't seem to be anything available to do that. Does anyone know of such a thing? Doug
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On 3/10/2017 10:31 PM, Chris Elmquist via cctalk wrote:
On March 9, 2017 9:00:43 PM CST, Douglas Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people
hooked graphics terminals to VAXes.
I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II
and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the
laptop
as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought
that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal.
On the MicroVax I have just started with PGPLOT and MIIPS, which are
scientific plotting packages that run on Vaxes.
I would like to use the laptop to emulate a Tek terminal connected to
the Vax through a serial port, but there doesn't seem to be anything
available to do that. Does anyone know of such a thing?
Doug
If you're not wedded to Linux on the laptop, MSDOS Kermit will do pretty good DEC
VT-{many} and TEK4014 emulation and would be "period correct" for use with your
VAX :-)
Chris
I like using the laptop as a console because I can log my terminal
session while I'm installing software, etc. Kermit on debian linux
comes without any terminal emulation for some reason. One of the things
that I tried was running kermit inside the xterm window, I was able to
connect to the Vax but was unable to test the graphics portion.
I once had an old laptop that I ran DOS on just to run a PROM
programmer. Wish I still had it.
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On March 9, 2017 9:00:43 PM CST, Douglas Taylor via cctalk
wrote:
>I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people
>hooked graphics terminals to VAXes.
>
>I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II
>and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the
>laptop
>as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought
>
>that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal.
>
>On the MicroVax I have just started with PGPLOT and MIIPS, which are
>scientific plotting packages that run on Vaxes.
>
>I would like to use the laptop to emulate a Tek terminal connected to
>the Vax through a serial port, but there doesn't seem to be anything
>available to do that. Does anyone know of such a thing?
>
>Doug
If you're not wedded to Linux on the laptop, MSDOS Kermit will do pretty good
DEC VT-{many} and TEK4014 emulation and would be "period correct" for use with
your VAX :-)
Chris
--
Chris Elmquist
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
xterm will do your Tek 4014 emulation. There should be lots of Tek stuff in X11, they were one of the original consortium members. While you are fishing around for software to run, I have MOVIE.BYU from one of the guys here. ISSCO's DISPLA should be around, but I have not found it. Look on youtube, there are a bunch of of clips of folks doing just what you are about to do. Randy From: cctalk on behalf of Douglas Taylor via cctalk Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 7:00 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Tektronix Terminal Emulation I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people hooked graphics terminals to VAXes. I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the laptop as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal. On the MicroVax I have just started with PGPLOT and MIIPS, which are scientific plotting packages that run on Vaxes. I would like to use the laptop to emulate a Tek terminal connected to the Vax through a serial port, but there doesn't seem to be anything available to do that. Does anyone know of such a thing? Doug
Re: Tektronix Terminal Emulation
On 03/09/2017 09:00 PM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote: I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people hooked graphics terminals to VAXes. I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the laptop as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal. On the MicroVax I have just started with PGPLOT and MIIPS, which are scientific plotting packages that run on Vaxes. I would like to use the laptop to emulate a Tek terminal connected to the Vax through a serial port, but there doesn't seem to be anything available to do that. Does anyone know of such a thing Hmmm, seems to me the VCB01 and DecWindows would emulate a Tek terminal in the terminal window. I don't think you had to add any software to make that work. Also, seems a VT220 or a bunch of other terminals would do Tek 4010/4012 emulation. Lear Sigler ADM36, GraphOn come to mind. Jon
Tektronix Terminal Emulation
I'm trying to return to the computing days of yesteryear when people hooked graphics terminals to VAXes. I don't have a Tektronix graphics terminal but I do have a MicroVax II and a laptop running Debian Linux. Up to now I've been using the laptop as a console device and connecting to the Vax using minicom. I thought that the laptop would be a natural as a Tektronix type terminal. On the MicroVax I have just started with PGPLOT and MIIPS, which are scientific plotting packages that run on Vaxes. I would like to use the laptop to emulate a Tek terminal connected to the Vax through a serial port, but there doesn't seem to be anything available to do that. Does anyone know of such a thing? Doug
