Re: Key2Audio
>From: Johan Vromans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> This Key2audio protection DOES NOT WORK. I've just bought a SONY MUSIC >> audio cd which is Key2audio protected (last album of Ozark Henry). >> [...] >> There was an eleventh track which was recognized as data by WinOnCD. All I >> did was not dropping it with the audio tracks in the tracks windows of the >> soft. >It is a multi-session CD. The first session contains the audio tracks. >The second session contains a small data track (probably with >irrelevant contents). The CD is left open, which is what confuses CD >readers in PCs. I once accidentally produced and audio CD that was >left open, and it confused the ordinary CD players as well (after >playing the last track they got confused). So I think the 2nd session >is to prevent audio players from running into problems. >Funny thing is that, if your system provides image copying of audio >CDs, everything is copied okay but the copied CD is no longer copy >protected. Most of these broken disks (non-CD's) will be read in wihtout problems using cdda2wav from cdrtools-1.11a12 Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
> This Key2audio protection DOES NOT WORK. I've just bought a SONY MUSIC > audio cd which is Key2audio protected (last album of Ozark Henry). > [...] > There was an eleventh track which was recognized as data by WinOnCD. All I > did was not dropping it with the audio tracks in the tracks windows of the > soft. It is a multi-session CD. The first session contains the audio tracks. The second session contains a small data track (probably with irrelevant contents). The CD is left open, which is what confuses CD readers in PCs. I once accidentally produced and audio CD that was left open, and it confused the ordinary CD players as well (after playing the last track they got confused). So I think the 2nd session is to prevent audio players from running into problems. Funny thing is that, if your system provides image copying of audio CDs, everything is copied okay but the copied CD is no longer copy protected. -- Johan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
"Dave Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - Will Philips and/or Sony declare that discs manufactured in this >way are violating the Red Book specifications, to the extent that >they can no longer use the "Compact Disc" logos on the disc and >packaging? I like that one. At minimum I would like to see labeling of these CDs required. -- -bill davidsen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "The secret to procrastination is to put things off until the last possible moment - but no longer" -me -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
>From: Dave Platt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I ran into a very interesting result while trying this feature >out, using my IDE/ATAPI drive under SCSI emulation. The first >CD I tried reported some C2 errors: >radagast:~$ readcd dev=1,0,0 --c2scan >Capacity: 296830 Blocks = 593660 kBytes = 579 MBytes = 607 prMB >Sectorsize: 2048 Bytes >Copy from SCSI (1,0,0) disk to file '/dev/null' >end:296830 >C2 in sector: 179819 first at byte: 160 (0xF0) total: 2168 errors >C2 in sector: 179820 first at byte:0 (0xFF) total: 376 errors >C2 in sector: 224619 first at byte: 1102 (0x02) total: 524 errors >C2 in sector: 224620 first at byte:4 (0x0F) total: 1559 errors >C2 in sector: 224621 first at byte:0 (0xF0) total: 156 errors >addr: 296830 cnt: 28 >Time total: 406.963sec >Read 767004.08 kB at 1884.7 kB/sec. >C2 errors total: 4783 bytes in 5 sectors on disk >C2 errors rate: 0.000685% >So did the second CD: >and the errors are in the same place! The third CD showed >a very similar pattern: >My guess is that this drive (a Toshiba XM-6402B) has a firmware >problem affecting Red Book operations, but I can't be sure of >that. I believe so. IIRC, there was a discussion in de.comp.l*.brenner some time ago... Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
> And may the source be always with you ... > > Here is the new part of the man page: Thanks! Makes good sense. I ran into a very interesting result while trying this feature out, using my IDE/ATAPI drive under SCSI emulation. The first CD I tried reported some C2 errors: radagast:~$ readcd dev=1,0,0 --c2scan Capacity: 296830 Blocks = 593660 kBytes = 579 MBytes = 607 prMB Sectorsize: 2048 Bytes Copy from SCSI (1,0,0) disk to file '/dev/null' end:296830 C2 in sector: 179819 first at byte: 160 (0xF0) total: 2168 errors C2 in sector: 179820 first at byte:0 (0xFF) total: 376 errors C2 in sector: 224619 first at byte: 1102 (0x02) total: 524 errors C2 in sector: 224620 first at byte:4 (0x0F) total: 1559 errors C2 in sector: 224621 first at byte:0 (0xF0) total: 156 errors addr: 296830 cnt: 28 Time total: 406.963sec Read 767004.08 kB at 1884.7 kB/sec. C2 errors total: 4783 bytes in 5 sectors on disk C2 errors rate: 0.000685% So did the second CD: radagast:~$ readcd dev=1,0,0 --c2scan Capacity: 232267 Blocks = 464534 kBytes = 453 MBytes = 475 prMB Sectorsize: 2048 Bytes Copy from SCSI (1,0,0) disk to file '/dev/null' end:232267 C2 in sector: 179819 first at byte: 112 (0xF0) total: 2216 errors C2 in sector: 179820 first at byte:0 (0xFF) total: 328 errors C2 in sector: 224619 first at byte: 694 (0x02) total: 800 errors C2 in sector: 224620 first at byte:2 (0x3F) total: 2166 errors C2 in sector: 224621 first at byte:0 (0xFC) total: 650 errors addr: 232267 cnt: 13 Time total: 341.478sec Read 600174.30 kB at 1757.6 kB/sec. C2 errors total: 6160 bytes in 5 sectors on disk C2 errors rate: 0.001128% and the errors are in the same place! The third CD showed a very similar pattern: radagast:~$ readcd dev=1,0,0 --c2scan Capacity: 301237 Blocks = 602474 kBytes = 588 MBytes = 616 prMB Sectorsize: 2048 Bytes Copy from SCSI (1,0,0) disk to file '/dev/null' end:301237 C2 in sector: 224619 first at byte: 1270 (0x02) total: 444 errors C2 in sector: 224620 first at byte:4 (0x0F) total: 1701 errors C2 in sector: 224621 first at byte:0 (0xF0) total: 340 errors addr: 301237 cnt: 79 Time total: 377.782sec Read 778391.70 kB at 2060.4 kB/sec. C2 errors total: 2485 bytes in 3 sectors on disk C2 errors rate: 0.000351% My guess is that this drive (a Toshiba XM-6402B) has a firmware problem affecting Red Book operations, but I can't be sure of that. I tried re-testing one of the CDs in my Ricoh MP6201S CD-RW drive, and it didn't work at all: radagast:~$ readcd dev=0,2,0 --c2scan Capacity: 301237 Blocks = 602474 kBytes = 588 MBytes = 616 prMB Sectorsize: 2048 Bytes readcd: Input/output error. mode select g1: scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: 55 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 18 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: 70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 26 00 00 00 Sense Key: 0x5 Illegal Request, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x26 Qual 0x00 (invalid field in parameter list) Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 0 (not valid) cmd finished after 0.009s timeout 40s Copy from SCSI (0,2,0) disk to file '/dev/null' end:301237 readcd: Input/output error. read_cd: scsi sendcmd: no error CDB: BE 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 63 FA 00 00 status: 0x2 (CHECK CONDITION) Sense Bytes: 70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0A 00 00 00 00 24 00 00 00 Sense Key: 0x5 Illegal Request, Segment 0 Sense Code: 0x24 Qual 0x00 (invalid field in cdb) Fru 0x0 Sense flags: Blk 0 (not valid) cmd finished after 0.009s timeout 40s readcd: Input/output error. Cannot read source disk readcd: Retrying from sector 0. .~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~+~~~-~~~ readcd: Input/output error. Error on sector 0 not corrected. Total of 1 errors. Other readcd operations on this drive also fail - I suspect that its lack of true MMC compatibility is confusing readcd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
> RTFM ;-) Ummm... as of cdrtools 1.11a06, the "c2scan" option is not documented in the man page for "readcd", or any of the other man pages, or in any of the AN* announcement files. The only place it's mentioned, as far as I can tell, is in the "readcd --help" output. Hence, "RTFM" is an answer which really doesn't apply in this case, since TFM doesn't have anything to R! Now, you could have said "Use the Source, Luke!" and it would have applied well enough ;-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
>From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mon Jul 23 21:44:17 2001 >> RTFM ;-) >Ummm... as of cdrtools 1.11a06, the "c2scan" option is not >documented in the man page for "readcd", or any of the other >man pages, or in any of the AN* announcement files. The >only place it's mentioned, as far as I can tell, is in the >"readcd --help" output. >Hence, "RTFM" is an answer which really doesn't apply in this >case, since TFM doesn't have anything to R! >Now, you could have said "Use the Source, Luke!" and it would >have applied well enough ;-) And may the source be always with you ... Here is the new part of the man page: -c2scan Scans the whole CD or the range specified by the sectors=range for C2 errors. C2 errors are errors that are uncorrectable after the second stage of the 24/28 + 28/32 Reed Solomon correction system at audio level (2352 bytes sector size). If an audio CD has C2 errors, interpolation is needed to hide the errors. If a data CD has C2 errors, these errors are in most cases corrected by the ECC/EDC code that makes 2352 bytes out of 2048 data bytes. The ECC/EDC code should be able to correct about 100 C2 error bytes per sector. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
>X-Envelope-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If they have C2 errors on the disk, use Plextor drives, they >> have interpolation for uncorrectable audio even when doing DAE. >> Return the disk after making a copy because the disk if junk. >> (no brand-new CD may have any C2 error at all). >Is there any way to query a Plextor CD-ROM or CD-RW drive to find >the number of C1 or C2 errors on a disc, or the number of error >concealment operations which occurred? RTFM ;-) readcd -c2scan Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
> If they have C2 errors on the disk, use Plextor drives, they > have interpolation for uncorrectable audio even when doing DAE. > Return the disk after making a copy because the disk if junk. > (no brand-new CD may have any C2 error at all). Is there any way to query a Plextor CD-ROM or CD-RW drive to find the number of C1 or C2 errors on a disc, or the number of error concealment operations which occurred? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
>From: "Dave Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Several interesting questions come to mind: >- Are there CD-ROM drives which can already "rip" these discs > accurately, by implementing error concealment on the data sent over > the bus interface? I'd be interested to see how well Plextor > drives do, as these have an extremely good reputation for ripping > quality. Plextor >- Will CD-ROM drive vendors upgrade their firmware to add error > concealment, or start shipping new models which have it? If so, > will the music labels file criminal charges against the drive > manufacturers, claiming that such firmware violates the Digital > Millennium Copyright Act by creating a copy-protection > circumvention device? No comments ;-) Sorry the information from several drive vendors is not intended to become public >- Will Philips and/or Sony declare that discs manufactured in this > way are violating the Red Book specifications, to the extent that > they can no longer use the "Compact Disc" logos on the disc and > packaging? I believe that any customer may go and sue the vendors of such disks. These disks definitely violate the Red book and must not carry the compat disk logo. (at least the try from Bertelsmann last year had a CD logo). In Europe it is no problem to go to a consumer protection organisation and they will for and sue the vendors because the products do not have a promised property. Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
"Dave Platt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > - Will Philips and/or Sony declare that discs manufactured in this >way are violating the Red Book specifications, to the extent that >they can no longer use the "Compact Disc" logos on the disc and >packaging? According to one of the newspaper articles, Sony (in Austria) is one of the companies that apply copy protection. -- Johan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
>From: Johan Vromans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Currently the newpapers here are writing articles about a new copy >protection scheme, Key2Audio, that CD companies seem to be secretly >applying to new CDs. They claim it makes CDs uncopyable, and that they >even cannot be played on computer CD-ROM drives. >Any comments? I did not yet see such a new "protected" CD. If they are using illegal TOC entries, use Plextor drives. Return the CD to the vendor after making a copy because it carries a Compact-Disk logo but isn"t red book compliant. If they have C2 errors on the disk, use Plextor drives, they have interpolation for uncorrectable audio even when doing DAE. Return the disk after making a copy because the disk if junk. (no brand-new CD may have any C2 error at all). Jörg EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
> According to Johan Vromans: > > [...] They claim it makes CDs uncopyable, and that they > > even cannot be played on computer CD-ROM drives. > > Can they be played on my regular CD player, e.g. my Philips CD 880 from > 1986? If so, fine, otherwise, the product is flawed and I return it. > > Does anyone know such a beast or is there even a list of them on the > internet? If borken CDs are around, this should be documented so that > other consumers can take this into consideration... Based on what I've read recently, this copy-protection scheme works by deliberately introducing errors into the audio data - mangling the data and the Reed-Solomon C1/C2 error correction bits. In theory, a regular audio CD player will see this situation as an irrecoverable read error, and will use its error concealment logic (waveform interpolation, or brief muting) to make the error inaudible. Many CD-ROM drives do not implement error concealment in their SCSI- or IDE/ATAPI-bus data ripping interface. If an CD has an error which cannot be corrected by the C1/C2 codes, the CD-ROM drive will frequently return the un-corrected/mis-corrected data over the bus, with no warning at all to the host software. I first ran into this problem with the MKE (Panasonic) CD-ROM drives used in the 3DO videogame system - we had to get MKE to add error concealment to the bus interface in order to avoid occasional pops, bangs, and other nastiness during play. According to the claims in the press by the creators of this technology (I believe it's a Macrovision thing but I'm not sure), the CDs which are pre-flawed in this way are playable in all "normal" CD players, but can't be ripped in CD-ROM drives. Naturally, any PC which plays CDs by ripping the data and sending it to the sound card via the PCM interface will have trouble playing these discs. Older PCs, which use CD-ROM drives with on-board DACs and error-concealment logic, and a separate analog cable to the mixer input on the sound card, will probably play them OK. I don't know to what degree some of the newer, more-sophisticated CD players might have trouble with these discs. It's possible that some car players, or portable players having anti-skip buffers, might also find these discs less than fully digestible. Several interesting questions come to mind: - Are there CD-ROM drives which can already "rip" these discs accurately, by implementing error concealment on the data sent over the bus interface? I'd be interested to see how well Plextor drives do, as these have an extremely good reputation for ripping quality. - Will CD-ROM drive vendors upgrade their firmware to add error concealment, or start shipping new models which have it? If so, will the music labels file criminal charges against the drive manufacturers, claiming that such firmware violates the Digital Millennium Copyright Act by creating a copy-protection circumvention device? - Will Philips and/or Sony declare that discs manufactured in this way are violating the Red Book specifications, to the extent that they can no longer use the "Compact Disc" logos on the disc and packaging? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Key2Audio
According to Johan Vromans: > [...] They claim it makes CDs uncopyable, and that they > even cannot be played on computer CD-ROM drives. Can they be played on my regular CD player, e.g. my Philips CD 880 from 1986? If so, fine, otherwise, the product is flawed and I return it. Does anyone know such a beast or is there even a list of them on the internet? If borken CDs are around, this should be documented so that other consumers can take this into consideration... +gg -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fax: +43/1/31336/702 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zentrum fuer Informatikdienste, Wirtschaftsuniversitaet Wien, Austria -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
