Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Greg Wooledge wrote: On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 07:57:35PM +0100, Lourens Veen wrote: - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key - the key must be obtained from you - the key is time limited - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this - all attempts to buy a license key go unanswered Right. Anyone who doesn't take credit cards and doesn't take paypal (last time I looked) is not going to find many people who will fly to Europe and hunt him down. Well, at least not to give him money. For me, cost is not an issue, open source is. -- bill davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CTO TMR Associates, Inc Doing interesting things with small computers since 1979
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Greg Wooledge wrote: On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 07:57:35PM +0100, Lourens Veen wrote: - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key - the key must be obtained from you - the key is time limited - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this - all attempts to buy a license key go unanswered Right. Anyone who doesn't take credit cards and doesn't take paypal (last time I looked) is not going to find many people who will fly to Europe and hunt him down. Well, at least not to give him money. For me, cost is not an issue, open source is. -- bill davidsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CTO TMR Associates, Inc Doing interesting things with small computers since 1979 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Jon came here asking for advice about a problem he had with >growisofs (which Andy helped him with). You started about >cdrecord-ProDVD, Jon explained why he doesn't use cdrecord-ProDVD, >and now you are complaining that he he is a freeloader because he >doesn't want to test cdrecord-ProDVD? That is simply unfair. Jon >does _not_ use your software, and he does _not_ owe you anything. Jon was asking for advise and I send advise. Then he answered in an unfair way, so I must asume that he is a freeloader. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Wed 3 March 2004 14:07, Joerg Schilling wrote: > From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> WRONG -> RTFM > >> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README > > > >I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is > > wrong. To split up Jon's statement: > > > >- cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a > > key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but > > only with a key > >- the key must be obtained from you > >- the key is time limited > >- the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) > >- it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this > > > >So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... > > It seems that you did not really read the README. > > your statements do not match what's inside the README Endlessly repeating "you're wrong" does not magically make you win an argument. It's also a waste of time, since it doesn't enlighten anyone. But okay, if you want it spelled out: 1) cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key "The binaries allow you to write either complete DVD-R & DVD-RW media when using the -dummy option or to write up to 1 GB of real data to a single media. As DVD+R/DVD+RW does not support a -dummy mode, you do not have the option to write a full DVD+R/RW medium in dummy mode." Seems pretty accurate to me. 2) cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key "You need a key to unlock unlimited writing." "cdrecord-ProDVD has been free for research or educational porposes since January 2002. cdrecord-ProDVD is now free for private non-commercial purposes too. If you have this key (this one has been renewed on Jan 26th 2004): [...] as environment variable, cdrecord-ProDVD will not be limited when writing DVDs." Again, looks correct. 3) The key must be obtained from you The README doesn't say anything about obtaining keys elsewhere. We could try and reverse-engineer ofcourse... 4) The key is time limited "As I am not sure if people will follow my licensing rules, so these keys are time limited and will expire on 2004 Aug 20 13:06:40 I will continue to make private/educational/research use free, but it may be that you need to request your private key for free after August 20th 2004." Seems pretty clear to me. 5) The key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) "However, it is limited to 4x or the lowest possiblespeed of the drive (whatever value is higher) if you write a CD. Cdrecord-ProDVD-1.11a34 and before did limit the CD writing speed to 1. If the environment variable CDR_SECURITY= is not present, the cdrecord-ProDVD binaries don't limit the CD write speed. It makes sense to write a wrapper script for DVD only for this reason (see below)." If you use the key, burning speed for CDs is reduced. Ofcourse, you can create a wrapper script and only use the key if you need it, or just use an ordinary cdrecord binary to burn CDs at full speed, so this whole thing is pretty pointless, but it's there nonetheless. 6) It is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this If German Urhaberrecht is anything like the Dutch Auteursrecht, it simply prohibits distribution and distribution of modified versions, giving the author an opportunity to licence his work. I have not been able to find a copyright licence for the cdrecord-ProDVD binaries. You putting them up on the web seems to imply permission to download them, but other than that it's all rather unclear. The key is really not a copyright licence thing since it restricts usage, not copying. It's more like a technical protection. I'm not sure whether Germany implemented the EUCD yet, but that would probably protect trying to break it. At any rate, I don't think you're disputing this point. So, I showed you that I did in fact do my homework. The only thing is that apparently I'm too stupid to understand. I realise that. Repeating it isn't going to make me smarter. So, please, explain where I went wrong. I want to learn, but I can't do it without some help. Lourens -- GPG public key: http://home.student.utwente.nl/l.e.veen/lourens.key
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Wed 3 March 2004 14:04, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > If you don't understand that you get a valuable piece of software > and don't like to even do simple tests, then you are just the > kind of person nobody likes to get in contact with. But then you > should be consistent and stay away from this mailing list! Note that this is _not_ a cdrecord mailinglist. It is a Debian mailinglist about writing CDs in general. It also seems to be an important support forum for growisofs. Jon came here asking for advice about a problem he had with growisofs (which Andy helped him with). You started about cdrecord-ProDVD, Jon explained why he doesn't use cdrecord-ProDVD, and now you are complaining that he he is a freeloader because he doesn't want to test cdrecord-ProDVD? That is simply unfair. Jon does _not_ use your software, and he does _not_ owe you anything. I realise that you're greatly frustrated with open source in general and the GNU/Linux community in particular, but taking it all out on Jon is simply unfair and uncalled for. Lourens -- GPG public key: http://home.student.utwente.nl/l.e.veen/lourens.key
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 07:57:35PM +0100, Lourens Veen wrote: > - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key > - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a > key > - the key must be obtained from you > - the key is time limited > - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) > - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this - all attempts to buy a license key go unanswered
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote: From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is wrong. To split up Jon's statement: - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key - the key must be obtained from you - the key is time limited - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... It seems that you did not really read the README. your statements do not match what's inside the README Could you clarify what the licensing terms for cdrecord-ProDVD are then, with reference to my earlier messages. It seems that both myself and Lourens are confused, and I suspect others may be. Thanks, Jon
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Jon came here asking for advice about a problem he had with >growisofs (which Andy helped him with). You started about >cdrecord-ProDVD, Jon explained why he doesn't use cdrecord-ProDVD, >and now you are complaining that he he is a freeloader because he >doesn't want to test cdrecord-ProDVD? That is simply unfair. Jon >does _not_ use your software, and he does _not_ owe you anything. Jon was asking for advise and I send advise. Then he answered in an unfair way, so I must asume that he is a freeloader. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Wed 3 March 2004 14:07, Joerg Schilling wrote: > From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> WRONG -> RTFM > >> ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README > > > >I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is > > wrong. To split up Jon's statement: > > > >- cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a > > key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but > > only with a key > >- the key must be obtained from you > >- the key is time limited > >- the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) > >- it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this > > > >So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... > > It seems that you did not really read the README. > > your statements do not match what's inside the README Endlessly repeating "you're wrong" does not magically make you win an argument. It's also a waste of time, since it doesn't enlighten anyone. But okay, if you want it spelled out: 1) cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key "The binaries allow you to write either complete DVD-R & DVD-RW media when using the -dummy option or to write up to 1 GB of real data to a single media. As DVD+R/DVD+RW does not support a -dummy mode, you do not have the option to write a full DVD+R/RW medium in dummy mode." Seems pretty accurate to me. 2) cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key "You need a key to unlock unlimited writing." "cdrecord-ProDVD has been free for research or educational porposes since January 2002. cdrecord-ProDVD is now free for private non-commercial purposes too. If you have this key (this one has been renewed on Jan 26th 2004): [...] as environment variable, cdrecord-ProDVD will not be limited when writing DVDs." Again, looks correct. 3) The key must be obtained from you The README doesn't say anything about obtaining keys elsewhere. We could try and reverse-engineer ofcourse... 4) The key is time limited "As I am not sure if people will follow my licensing rules, so these keys are time limited and will expire on 2004 Aug 20 13:06:40 I will continue to make private/educational/research use free, but it may be that you need to request your private key for free after August 20th 2004." Seems pretty clear to me. 5) The key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) "However, it is limited to 4x or the lowest possiblespeed of the drive (whatever value is higher) if you write a CD. Cdrecord-ProDVD-1.11a34 and before did limit the CD writing speed to 1. If the environment variable CDR_SECURITY= is not present, the cdrecord-ProDVD binaries don't limit the CD write speed. It makes sense to write a wrapper script for DVD only for this reason (see below)." If you use the key, burning speed for CDs is reduced. Ofcourse, you can create a wrapper script and only use the key if you need it, or just use an ordinary cdrecord binary to burn CDs at full speed, so this whole thing is pretty pointless, but it's there nonetheless. 6) It is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this If German Urhaberrecht is anything like the Dutch Auteursrecht, it simply prohibits distribution and distribution of modified versions, giving the author an opportunity to licence his work. I have not been able to find a copyright licence for the cdrecord-ProDVD binaries. You putting them up on the web seems to imply permission to download them, but other than that it's all rather unclear. The key is really not a copyright licence thing since it restricts usage, not copying. It's more like a technical protection. I'm not sure whether Germany implemented the EUCD yet, but that would probably protect trying to break it. At any rate, I don't think you're disputing this point. So, I showed you that I did in fact do my homework. The only thing is that apparently I'm too stupid to understand. I realise that. Repeating it isn't going to make me smarter. So, please, explain where I went wrong. I want to learn, but I can't do it without some help. Lourens -- GPG public key: http://home.student.utwente.nl/l.e.veen/lourens.key -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README >I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is wrong. To >split up Jon's statement: >- cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key >- cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a >key >- the key must be obtained from you >- the key is time limited >- the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) >- it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this >So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... It seems that you did not really read the README. your statements do not match what's inside the README Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Wed 3 March 2004 14:04, Joerg Schilling wrote: > > If you don't understand that you get a valuable piece of software > and don't like to even do simple tests, then you are just the > kind of person nobody likes to get in contact with. But then you > should be consistent and stay away from this mailing list! Note that this is _not_ a cdrecord mailinglist. It is a Debian mailinglist about writing CDs in general. It also seems to be an important support forum for growisofs. Jon came here asking for advice about a problem he had with growisofs (which Andy helped him with). You started about cdrecord-ProDVD, Jon explained why he doesn't use cdrecord-ProDVD, and now you are complaining that he he is a freeloader because he doesn't want to test cdrecord-ProDVD? That is simply unfair. Jon does _not_ use your software, and he does _not_ owe you anything. I realise that you're greatly frustrated with open source in general and the GNU/Linux community in particular, but taking it all out on Jon is simply unfair and uncalled for. Lourens -- GPG public key: http://home.student.utwente.nl/l.e.veen/lourens.key -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Short answer to your long and wrong message: It looks like you are a Freeloader Long answer: you completely missunderstood the idea of free software and global economic compensations. I now put more than 6 years of work into cdrecord-ProDVD and I definitely don't people like you who only believe that Free Software is something that helps you to save money. Well, it seems this habbit is a result of the marketing strategies from companies like RedHat and SuSE who developed the habbit of grabbing anything they could get for free, modify it to make it incompatible and then sell it for the money they could get. If you don't understand that you get a valuable piece of software and don't like to even do simple tests, then you are just the kind of person nobody likes to get in contact with. But then you should be consistent and stay away from this mailing list! Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Tue, Mar 02, 2004 at 07:57:35PM +0100, Lourens Veen wrote: > - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key > - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a > key > - the key must be obtained from you > - the key is time limited > - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) > - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this - all attempts to buy a license key go unanswered -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote: From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is wrong. To split up Jon's statement: - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key - the key must be obtained from you - the key is time limited - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... It seems that you did not really read the README. your statements do not match what's inside the README Could you clarify what the licensing terms for cdrecord-ProDVD are then, with reference to my earlier messages. It seems that both myself and Lourens are confused, and I suspect others may be. Thanks, Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Lourens Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README >I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is wrong. To >split up Jon's statement: >- cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key >- cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a >key >- the key must be obtained from you >- the key is time limited >- the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) >- it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this >So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... It seems that you did not really read the README. your statements do not match what's inside the README Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Short answer to your long and wrong message: It looks like you are a Freeloader Long answer: you completely missunderstood the idea of free software and global economic compensations. I now put more than 6 years of work into cdrecord-ProDVD and I definitely don't people like you who only believe that Free Software is something that helps you to save money. Well, it seems this habbit is a result of the marketing strategies from companies like RedHat and SuSE who developed the habbit of grabbing anything they could get for free, modify it to make it incompatible and then sell it for the money they could get. If you don't understand that you get a valuable piece of software and don't like to even do simple tests, then you are just the kind of person nobody likes to get in contact with. But then you should be consistent and stay away from this mailing list! Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Andy Polyakov wrote: GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION: Mounted Media: 11h, DVD-R Sequential Media ID: Yi Jhan 001 GET [CURRENT] PERFORMANCE: Write Performance: 3.9x1385=5408KB/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> 0] Speed Descriptor#0:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s Speed Descriptor#1:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon]$ growisofs -speed=2.0 -Z /dev/hdc -graft-points -R -r -l -J [files] [...snip...] /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.0x1385KBps. [...snip...] This is odd. If growisofs had above descriptor list at this point, it should have tried to set 2x... And if it have failed to change it to 2x, it should have refused to start the recording... Odd... Relevant question is what happens next. I would very much like that we just dismiss this, as I don't think it's worth spending time on poorly supported media. I find it hard to believe that you would have problems finding media which works reliably with your unit... Cheers. A. I agree with all that. My flatmate now has a present of some cheap media to use in his expensive drive. I have more media arriving soon. Problem solved, from a practical point of view. I just also found the patches at http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~warly/files/cdrtools/ I'll shout if they throw up any hugely interesting or different behaviour. Jon
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
> I'm trying to burn some data onto a DVD-R disk in an NEC-1300A drive. > The media is off low quality (as is the drive!) and burning at 4 speed > gives me coaster after coaster. But grwoisofs seems to ignore my > attempts to burn at 1x or 2x speed. Keep in mind that growisofs speed selection code works as following: ask firmware for supported speeds for this media, take lowest for 1x, multiply it by -speed factor and find the *closest* speed in the list from the first step. Meaning that -speed=1 doesn't really mean set 1385, but rather "pick the lowest speed." And so does -speed=0.5... > Burning at 1-speed onto quality DVD-RW media works fine. You mean -speed=1 works fine with brand-name DVD-RW, but not with no-name DVD-R. I think you can rest the case directly here:-) > Should I expect growisofs to ignore my speed override? See above. Growisofs doesn't really try to override anything, but consults firmware. And firmware has every chance in the world to trick growisofs. > I have tried "speed=1", "speed=1.0", "speed=", etc. Help! > Well, help until my quality media arrives, anyway! > > Details follow: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon]$ dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/hdc > INQUIRY: [_NEC][DVD_RW ND-1300A ][1.09] At least initial NEC firmwares are very well-known for poor support [or should I say "no support"] for no-name DVD-R media. Inability to control recording velocity *might* be indication of poor media support. > GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION: > Mounted Media: 11h, DVD-R Sequential > Media ID: Yi Jhan 001 > GET [CURRENT] PERFORMANCE: > Write Performance: 3.9x1385=5408KB/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> 0] > Speed Descriptor#0:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s > Speed Descriptor#1:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon]$ growisofs -speed=2.0 -Z /dev/hdc -graft-points -R -r > -l -J [files] > [...snip...] > /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.0x1385KBps. > [...snip...] This is odd. If growisofs had above descriptor list at this point, it should have tried to set 2x... And if it have failed to change it to 2x, it should have refused to start the recording... Odd... Relevant question is what happens next. I would very much like that we just dismiss this, as I don't think it's worth spending time on poorly supported media. I find it hard to believe that you would have problems finding media which works reliably with your unit... Cheers. A.
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Andy Polyakov wrote: GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION: Mounted Media: 11h, DVD-R Sequential Media ID: Yi Jhan 001 GET [CURRENT] PERFORMANCE: Write Performance: 3.9x1385=5408KB/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> 0] Speed Descriptor#0:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s Speed Descriptor#1:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon]$ growisofs -speed=2.0 -Z /dev/hdc -graft-points -R -r -l -J [files] [...snip...] /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.0x1385KBps. [...snip...] This is odd. If growisofs had above descriptor list at this point, it should have tried to set 2x... And if it have failed to change it to 2x, it should have refused to start the recording... Odd... Relevant question is what happens next. I would very much like that we just dismiss this, as I don't think it's worth spending time on poorly supported media. I find it hard to believe that you would have problems finding media which works reliably with your unit... Cheers. A. I agree with all that. My flatmate now has a present of some cheap media to use in his expensive drive. I have more media arriving soon. Problem solved, from a practical point of view. I just also found the patches at http://people.mandrakesoft.com/~warly/files/cdrtools/ I'll shout if they throw up any hugely interesting or different behaviour. Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Tue 2 March 2004 17:10, Joerg Schilling wrote: > From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> WRONG > > > >No need to shout, Joerg. > > It is: see below. > > >If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, > > usage restricted key from you. It's your right to license it > > like this. But I have given you no indication whether my use > > will comply with these restrictions, so you are wrong to assume > > that I am able to do so (or that I am happy to do so, but > > that's a seperate issue). > > WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is wrong. To split up Jon's statement: - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key - the key must be obtained from you - the key is time limited - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... Lourens -- GPG public key: http://home.student.utwente.nl/l.e.veen/lourens.key
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote:
From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, usage
restricted key from you. It's your right to license it like this. But I
have given you no indication whether my use will comply with these
restrictions, so you are wrong to assume that I am able to do so (or
that I am happy to do so, but that's a seperate issue).
WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README
"cdrecord-ProDVD is now free for private non-commercial purposes too."
It is my understanding that it is therefor non-free (as in beer) for use
in a commercial environment. Although the DVD writer in question is in
my home PC, we have them at work in Linux machines too. I would like to
learn how to use *one* piece of software and use it legally in both
situations.
My employers (who are incidently very committed to open source software)
would prefer if I could use the free ("beer") solution, if it works.
If I have misunderstood your licensing terms, then I apologise and
respectfully suggest you clarify the README. A good start would be to
put the licensing terms into a seperate file, as is common with much
other software.
Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this
mailing list?
Why do you feel have to be rude to me, instead of shutting the fuck up?
Simple: you did start being very rude to me.
No Jeorg, I explained why I would rather not spend my precious time
using your software. This isn't being rude to you. It is saying why I
choose not to be involved with something you do. There is a difference.
If I was to improperly criticise the functionality of the software, or
your abilities, then that would be rude. But this is not what I did; I
just exercised my right to decline your licensing terms.
It looks like you are a
typical person who likes to grab what he may get for free but don't like
to give anything back.think about this.
It's not about whether I feel obliged to "give anything back" to you for
something I have "grabbed". If you perceive things like this, then I
suggest you consider not licensing your other software under the GPL, as
you are clearly missing the point.
Anyone with a basic understanding of economics and anthropology will
tell you that people do things because of the benefit to themselves.
This benefit is often indirect, such as keeping ones peers happy, and
not getting abused.
If I work[*] on dvd+rw-tools (for example), I gain knowledge about
software that I can use both at work and at home, without restriction.
The project appears to be run by someone who accepts user patches, so I
gain quick fixes, and my peers (other users) gain the use of any patches
or documentation I submit. If the maintainer disappears or can't be
bothered, I gain the right to use the code anyway, and so do my
employers (which could be important if they have committed to using the
software in a production environment).
If I work[*] on your project I gain none of these things. If my
experience with other closed source projects is an indication, all I
gain is the urge to bash my head against a brick wall at some point in
the future. This isn't meant to be a personal criticism of you, just an
explanation of a choice I have made in relation to a licensing choice
you have made.
[*] I define "work" to be anything that uses up my time, such as
examining code, running and submitting test information, writing
patches, documentation, etc.
Apologies to "cdwrite" users for drifting a little off topic! But I
think you'll agree I have the right to a little self defense when abused
on a public list. I won't trouble you with any more replies to Herr
Schilling's outbursts.
Jon (who's glass seems to be at least half full today)
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
> I'm trying to burn some data onto a DVD-R disk in an NEC-1300A drive. > The media is off low quality (as is the drive!) and burning at 4 speed > gives me coaster after coaster. But grwoisofs seems to ignore my > attempts to burn at 1x or 2x speed. Keep in mind that growisofs speed selection code works as following: ask firmware for supported speeds for this media, take lowest for 1x, multiply it by -speed factor and find the *closest* speed in the list from the first step. Meaning that -speed=1 doesn't really mean set 1385, but rather "pick the lowest speed." And so does -speed=0.5... > Burning at 1-speed onto quality DVD-RW media works fine. You mean -speed=1 works fine with brand-name DVD-RW, but not with no-name DVD-R. I think you can rest the case directly here:-) > Should I expect growisofs to ignore my speed override? See above. Growisofs doesn't really try to override anything, but consults firmware. And firmware has every chance in the world to trick growisofs. > I have tried "speed=1", "speed=1.0", "speed=", etc. Help! > Well, help until my quality media arrives, anyway! > > Details follow: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon]$ dvd+rw-mediainfo /dev/hdc > INQUIRY: [_NEC][DVD_RW ND-1300A ][1.09] At least initial NEC firmwares are very well-known for poor support [or should I say "no support"] for no-name DVD-R media. Inability to control recording velocity *might* be indication of poor media support. > GET [CURRENT] CONFIGURATION: > Mounted Media: 11h, DVD-R Sequential > Media ID: Yi Jhan 001 > GET [CURRENT] PERFORMANCE: > Write Performance: 3.9x1385=5408KB/[EMAIL PROTECTED] -> 0] > Speed Descriptor#0:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s > Speed Descriptor#1:00/0 [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s [EMAIL PROTECTED]/s > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] jon]$ growisofs -speed=2.0 -Z /dev/hdc -graft-points -R -r > -l -J [files] > [...snip...] > /dev/hdc: "Current Write Speed" is 4.0x1385KBps. > [...snip...] This is odd. If growisofs had above descriptor list at this point, it should have tried to set 2x... And if it have failed to change it to 2x, it should have refused to start the recording... Odd... Relevant question is what happens next. I would very much like that we just dismiss this, as I don't think it's worth spending time on poorly supported media. I find it hard to believe that you would have problems finding media which works reliably with your unit... Cheers. A. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> WRONG >No need to shout, Joerg. It is: see below. >If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, usage >restricted key from you. It's your right to license it like this. But I >have given you no indication whether my use will comply with these >restrictions, so you are wrong to assume that I am able to do so (or >that I am happy to do so, but that's a seperate issue). WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README >> Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this >> mailing list? >Why do you feel have to be rude to me, instead of shutting the fuck up? Simple: you did start being very rude to me. It looks like you are a typical person who likes to grab what he may get for free but don't like to give anything back.think about this. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
On Tue 2 March 2004 17:10, Joerg Schilling wrote: > From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >> WRONG > > > >No need to shout, Joerg. > > It is: see below. > > >If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, > > usage restricted key from you. It's your right to license it > > like this. But I have given you no indication whether my use > > will comply with these restrictions, so you are wrong to assume > > that I am able to do so (or that I am happy to do so, but > > that's a seperate issue). > > WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README I just read that document, and I'm curious what exactly is wrong. To split up Jon's statement: - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn a maximum of 1 GB of data without a key - cdrecord-ProDVD will burn more than 1 GB of data, but only with a key - the key must be obtained from you - the key is time limited - the key restricts usage (burning speed for CDs) - it is your right to licence cdrecord-ProDVD like this So which one is wrong? It all seems to match the README to me... Lourens -- GPG public key: http://home.student.utwente.nl/l.e.veen/lourens.key -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote:
From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, usage
restricted key from you. It's your right to license it like this. But I
have given you no indication whether my use will comply with these
restrictions, so you are wrong to assume that I am able to do so (or
that I am happy to do so, but that's a seperate issue).
WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README
"cdrecord-ProDVD is now free for private non-commercial purposes too."
It is my understanding that it is therefor non-free (as in beer) for use
in a commercial environment. Although the DVD writer in question is in
my home PC, we have them at work in Linux machines too. I would like to
learn how to use *one* piece of software and use it legally in both
situations.
My employers (who are incidently very committed to open source software)
would prefer if I could use the free ("beer") solution, if it works.
If I have misunderstood your licensing terms, then I apologise and
respectfully suggest you clarify the README. A good start would be to
put the licensing terms into a seperate file, as is common with much
other software.
Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this
mailing list?
Why do you feel have to be rude to me, instead of shutting the fuck up?
Simple: you did start being very rude to me.
No Jeorg, I explained why I would rather not spend my precious time
using your software. This isn't being rude to you. It is saying why I
choose not to be involved with something you do. There is a difference.
If I was to improperly criticise the functionality of the software, or
your abilities, then that would be rude. But this is not what I did; I
just exercised my right to decline your licensing terms.
It looks like you are a
typical person who likes to grab what he may get for free but don't like
to give anything back.think about this.
It's not about whether I feel obliged to "give anything back" to you for
something I have "grabbed". If you perceive things like this, then I
suggest you consider not licensing your other software under the GPL, as
you are clearly missing the point.
Anyone with a basic understanding of economics and anthropology will
tell you that people do things because of the benefit to themselves.
This benefit is often indirect, such as keeping ones peers happy, and
not getting abused.
If I work[*] on dvd+rw-tools (for example), I gain knowledge about
software that I can use both at work and at home, without restriction.
The project appears to be run by someone who accepts user patches, so I
gain quick fixes, and my peers (other users) gain the use of any patches
or documentation I submit. If the maintainer disappears or can't be
bothered, I gain the right to use the code anyway, and so do my
employers (which could be important if they have committed to using the
software in a production environment).
If I work[*] on your project I gain none of these things. If my
experience with other closed source projects is an indication, all I
gain is the urge to bash my head against a brick wall at some point in
the future. This isn't meant to be a personal criticism of you, just an
explanation of a choice I have made in relation to a licensing choice
you have made.
[*] I define "work" to be anything that uses up my time, such as
examining code, running and submitting test information, writing
patches, documentation, etc.
Apologies to "cdwrite" users for drifting a little off topic! But I
think you'll agree I have the right to a little self defense when abused
on a public list. I won't trouble you with any more replies to Herr
Schilling's outbursts.
Jon (who's glass seems to be at least half full today)
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote: From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I can see that this *might* help determine whether the drive or the software is at fault. But the "free" version of cdrecord-ProDVD only burns 1G of data WRONG No need to shout, Joerg. If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, usage restricted key from you. It's your right to license it like this. But I have given you no indication whether my use will comply with these restrictions, so you are wrong to assume that I am able to do so (or that I am happy to do so, but that's a seperate issue). (according to the docs) which is less than I need to burn. Also, I spend far a painfully large amount of my work time doing product support for closed source projects. Respectfully, I don't see why I should spend my free time doing support & testing for yours, as I will learn nothing, get paid nothing and have no guarantee anyone but you will benefit. So I'll stick with dvd+rw-tools if that's OK. Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this mailing list? Why do you feel have to be rude to me, instead of shutting the fuck up? Jon
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> WRONG >No need to shout, Joerg. It is: see below. >If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, usage >restricted key from you. It's your right to license it like this. But I >have given you no indication whether my use will comply with these >restrictions, so you are wrong to assume that I am able to do so (or >that I am happy to do so, but that's a seperate issue). WRONG -> RTFM ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/cdrecord/ProDVD/README >> Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this >> mailing list? >Why do you feel have to be rude to me, instead of shutting the fuck up? Simple: you did start being very rude to me. It looks like you are a typical person who likes to grab what he may get for free but don't like to give anything back.think about this. Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I can see that this *might* help determine whether the drive or the >software is at fault. >But the "free" version of cdrecord-ProDVD only burns 1G of data WRONG >(according to the docs) which is less than I need to burn. Also, I spend >far a painfully large amount of my work time doing product support for >closed source projects. Respectfully, I don't see why I should spend my >free time doing support & testing for yours, as I will learn nothing, >get paid nothing and have no guarantee anyone but you will benefit. So >I'll stick with dvd+rw-tools if that's OK. Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this mailing list? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote: From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I can see that this *might* help determine whether the drive or the software is at fault. But the "free" version of cdrecord-ProDVD only burns 1G of data WRONG No need to shout, Joerg. If I want to burn more than 1G, I have to get a time limted, usage restricted key from you. It's your right to license it like this. But I have given you no indication whether my use will comply with these restrictions, so you are wrong to assume that I am able to do so (or that I am happy to do so, but that's a seperate issue). (according to the docs) which is less than I need to burn. Also, I spend far a painfully large amount of my work time doing product support for closed source projects. Respectfully, I don't see why I should spend my free time doing support & testing for yours, as I will learn nothing, get paid nothing and have no guarantee anyone but you will benefit. So I'll stick with dvd+rw-tools if that's OK. Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this mailing list? Why do you feel have to be rude to me, instead of shutting the fuck up? Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote: From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm trying to burn some data onto a DVD-R disk in an NEC-1300A drive. The media is off low quality (as is the drive!) and burning at 4 speed gives me coaster after coaster. But grwoisofs seems to ignore my attempts to burn at 1x or 2x speed. Burning at 1-speed onto quality DVD-RW media works fine. Should I expect growisofs to ignore my speed override? I have tried "speed=1", "speed=1.0", "speed=", etc. Help! Well, help until my quality media arrives, anyway! Did you try whether cdrecord-ProDVD will allow you to set the speed? No. I can see that this *might* help determine whether the drive or the software is at fault. But the "free" version of cdrecord-ProDVD only burns 1G of data (according to the docs) which is less than I need to burn. Also, I spend far a painfully large amount of my work time doing product support for closed source projects. Respectfully, I don't see why I should spend my free time doing support & testing for yours, as I will learn nothing, get paid nothing and have no guarantee anyone but you will benefit. So I'll stick with dvd+rw-tools if that's OK. Jon
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I can see that this *might* help determine whether the drive or the >software is at fault. >But the "free" version of cdrecord-ProDVD only burns 1G of data WRONG >(according to the docs) which is less than I need to burn. Also, I spend >far a painfully large amount of my work time doing product support for >closed source projects. Respectfully, I don't see why I should spend my >free time doing support & testing for yours, as I will learn nothing, >get paid nothing and have no guarantee anyone but you will benefit. So >I'll stick with dvd+rw-tools if that's OK. Looks like you like to stay uninformed. Why then do you write to this mailing list? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I'm trying to burn some data onto a DVD-R disk in an NEC-1300A drive. >The media is off low quality (as is the drive!) and burning at 4 speed >gives me coaster after coaster. But grwoisofs seems to ignore my >attempts to burn at 1x or 2x speed. Burning at 1-speed onto quality >DVD-RW media works fine. Should I expect growisofs to ignore my speed >override? I have tried "speed=1", "speed=1.0", "speed=", etc. Help! >Well, help until my quality media arrives, anyway! Did you try whether cdrecord-ProDVD will allow you to set the speed? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
Joerg Schilling wrote: From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'm trying to burn some data onto a DVD-R disk in an NEC-1300A drive. The media is off low quality (as is the drive!) and burning at 4 speed gives me coaster after coaster. But grwoisofs seems to ignore my attempts to burn at 1x or 2x speed. Burning at 1-speed onto quality DVD-RW media works fine. Should I expect growisofs to ignore my speed override? I have tried "speed=1", "speed=1.0", "speed=", etc. Help! Well, help until my quality media arrives, anyway! Did you try whether cdrecord-ProDVD will allow you to set the speed? No. I can see that this *might* help determine whether the drive or the software is at fault. But the "free" version of cdrecord-ProDVD only burns 1G of data (according to the docs) which is less than I need to burn. Also, I spend far a painfully large amount of my work time doing product support for closed source projects. Respectfully, I don't see why I should spend my free time doing support & testing for yours, as I will learn nothing, get paid nothing and have no guarantee anyone but you will benefit. So I'll stick with dvd+rw-tools if that's OK. Jon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: writing speed issue with dvd+rw-tools
>From: Jon Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >I'm trying to burn some data onto a DVD-R disk in an NEC-1300A drive. >The media is off low quality (as is the drive!) and burning at 4 speed >gives me coaster after coaster. But grwoisofs seems to ignore my >attempts to burn at 1x or 2x speed. Burning at 1-speed onto quality >DVD-RW media works fine. Should I expect growisofs to ignore my speed >override? I have tried "speed=1", "speed=1.0", "speed=", etc. Help! >Well, help until my quality media arrives, anyway! Did you try whether cdrecord-ProDVD will allow you to set the speed? Jörg -- EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin [EMAIL PROTECTED](uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1 [EMAIL PROTECTED](work) chars I am J"org Schilling URL: http://www.fokus.fraunhofer.de/usr/schilling ftp://ftp.berlios.de/pub/schily -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
