[CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Ross S. W. Walker wrote: Tom Diehl wrote: On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Ross S. W. Walker wrote: Tom Diehl wrote: Hi Tim, On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Tim Verhoeven wrote: On 9/13/07, Tom Diehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone know how I can find out if an ibm serveraid 8k sas storage controller (zero channel RAID) is a real hardware RAID controller and supported in the standard CentOs kernel or is it a fake raid controller. I am trying to decide if I should get the serveraid controller or go get a 3ware controller. Tom, The ServeRAID 8k s a real hardware raid controller, is has 256 MB of cache I think and a battery backup. So in this case there is no need for a 3ware controller. On the IBM website you can also find a commandline tool (called arcconf) that allows you monitor and configure the controller inside Linux. Is there a place where this kind of thing is documented? I looked through Google for about 3 hrs yesterday and I could not find anything definitive. Thank You, for the info. I hate to be the stater of the obvious... but doesn't IBM's website provide product specs along with a compatibility guide? They do but nothing I can find in there tells me if it is real hardware raid or fake raid. Adaptec for example, also says that their fake raid cards are comaptable with Linux but they do not clearly specify if it is fake raid or true hardware Raid. AFAIK the Adaptec cards are all fake Raid. and some of ServeRaid cards were also based on the Adaptec chipset and hence Fake Raid. When I looked at the IBM specs for the ServerRaid cards I did not see anything that indicated if the were real hardware raid or Fake Raid. If I am missing something please enlighten me. I am always willing to learn. IMO this type of thing is ambigious at best. Ok, if a card has an IO processor then it will definitely be a true RAID card, as the fake ones don't have IO processors and use the system processor as it's processor and thus why they are "fake". AAH!! That makes sense. I did not think about that but I should have. :-( So look for a mention of an Intel/LSI/Broadcom on-board processor in the specs and take note of the IO processor model # as that will determine it's performance. Again, that makes perfect sense. I feel stupid for not figuring it out on my own. Sometimes one just cannot see the forest for the trees. :-) Thanks for the education. This list is great!! Regards, -- Tom Diehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spamtrap address [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Mogens Kjaer wrote: Tom Diehl wrote: ... They do but nothing I can find in there tells me if it is real hardware raid or fake raid. Adaptec for example, also says that their fake raid cards are comaptable with Linux but they do not clearly specify if it is fake raid or true hardware Raid. AFAIK the Adaptec cards are all fake Raid. and some of ServeRaid cards were also based on the Adaptec chipset and hence Fake Raid. My IBM x3500 machines have this card: This is the exact machine I am talking about. # lspci ... 03:00.0 RAID bus controller: Adaptec AAC-RAID (Rocket) (rev 02) ... Hu, Interesting!! Maybe my information about Adaptec is wrong. I'm not quite sure if this also has an IBM serveraid name. According to the specs I have it is branded as ServeRaid 8k SAS. I do not have the machine yet. I don't think it is fakeraid; setting up raid devices can take place at bios level, the buildup of the RAID5 or RAID6 volumes can run without any drivers loaded. It does not sound like fake raid. If this is fakeraid I would like a clear definition of the term fakeraid. There is a pretty good explaination of fake raid here: http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2005/09/fake-raid-fraid-sucks-even-more-at.html And some more info here: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html All of it is a bit old but mostly still revelent as far as I can tell. Regards, -- Tom Diehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spamtrap address [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Tom Diehl wrote: > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Ross S. W. Walker wrote: > > > Tom Diehl wrote: > >> > >> Hi Tim, > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Tim Verhoeven wrote: > >> > >>> On 9/13/07, Tom Diehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone know how I can find out if an ibm serveraid > >> 8k sas storage > controller (zero channel RAID) is a real hardware RAID > >> controller and > supported in the standard CentOs kernel or is it a fake > >> raid controller. > I am trying to decide if I should get the serveraid > >> controller or go get > a 3ware controller. > >>> > >>> Tom, > >>> > >>> The ServeRAID 8k s a real hardware raid controller, is > has 256 MB of > >>> cache I think and a battery backup. So in this case there > is no need > >>> for a 3ware controller. On the IBM website you can also find a > >>> commandline tool (called arcconf) that allows you monitor and > >>> configure the controller inside Linux. > >> > >> Is there a place where this kind of thing is documented? I > >> looked through Google > >> for about 3 hrs yesterday and I could not find anything definitive. > >> > >> Thank You, for the info. > > > > I hate to be the stater of the obvious... but doesn't IBM's website > > provide product specs along with a compatibility guide? > > They do but nothing I can find in there tells me if it is > real hardware > raid or fake raid. Adaptec for example, also says that their > fake raid cards > are comaptable with Linux but they do not clearly specify if > it is fake raid > or true hardware Raid. AFAIK the Adaptec cards are all fake > Raid. and some of > ServeRaid cards were also based on the Adaptec chipset and > hence Fake Raid. > > When I looked at the IBM specs for the ServerRaid cards I did > not see anything > that indicated if the were real hardware raid or Fake Raid. > If I am missing > something please enlighten me. I am always willing to learn. > > IMO this type of thing is ambigious at best. Ok, if a card has an IO processor then it will definitely be a true RAID card, as the fake ones don't have IO processors and use the system processor as it's processor and thus why they are "fake". So look for a mention of an Intel/LSI/Broadcom on-board processor in the specs and take note of the IO processor model # as that will determine it's performance. -Ross __ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Mogens Kjaer wrote: > Sebastian Walter wrote: > ... >> As far as I see, the Adaptex AAC-RAID card is a SATA card, while >> Adaptec's SAS cards are called AIC, ASC/ASR or ASR > > I have 8 *SAS* disks on my AAC-RAID card: Thanks for pointing this out. > But maybe lspci is wrong, as it is in fact an IBM serveraid card > (made by adaptec)? See a comment about this here: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html#ibm It seems IBM uses Adaptec controllers. Some of IBMs are also Intel IHC-oriented and therefore fakeraids. They are called "HostRAID". -- Sebastian ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Sebastian Walter wrote: ... As far as I see, the Adaptex AAC-RAID card is a SATA card, while Adaptec's SAS cards are called AIC, ASC/ASR or ASR (please correct me if I'm wrong! Accept my apologies in advance if I am). I have 8 SAS disks on my AAC-RAID card: # arcconf getconfig 1 ... -- Physical Device information -- Device #0 Device is a Hard drive State : Online Supported : Yes Transfer Speed: SAS 3.0 Gb/s Reported Channel,Device : 0,0 Reported Enclosure,Slot : 0,0 Vendor: IBM-ESXS Model : ST3300555SS Firmware : BA33 Serial number : 3LM0JKE2 World-wide name : 5000C5000226E7C0 Size : 286102 MB Write Cache : Enabled (write-back) FRU : 39R7356 PFA : No ... But maybe lspci is wrong, as it is in fact an IBM serveraid card (made by adaptec)? Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.crc.dk ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Mogens Kjaer wrote: > My IBM x3500 machines have this card: > > # lspci > ... > 03:00.0 RAID bus controller: Adaptec AAC-RAID (Rocket) (rev 02) > ... > > I'm not quite sure if this also has an IBM serveraid name. > > I don't think it is fakeraid; setting up raid devices can take > place at bios level, the buildup of the RAID5 or RAID6 volumes > can run without any drivers loaded. > > If this is fakeraid I would like a clear definition of the term > fakeraid. First we should clearly distinguish between SAS and SATA raid cards ;) As far as I see, the Adaptex AAC-RAID card is a SATA card, while Adaptec's SAS cards are called AIC, ASC/ASR or ASR (please correct me if I'm wrong! Accept my apologies in advance if I am). According to the link posted earlier (http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html), your Adaptec card is real hardware (I would also agree on your definition of fakeraid as being dependent on drivers, but these could also be set up in BIOS!). Many other (expecially cheap) Adaptec cards are fake raid cards. -- Sebastian ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Mogens Kjaer wrote: ... # lspci ... 03:00.0 RAID bus controller: Adaptec AAC-RAID (Rocket) (rev 02) Alway google before answering :-) # lspci -v -n ... 03:00.0 0104: 9005:0286 (rev 02) Subsystem: 1014:9580 Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 169 Memory at c820 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2M] Memory at c890 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=128K] I/O ports at 3000 [size=256] [virtual] Expansion ROM at c892 [disabled] [size=32K] Capabilities: [40] Express Endpoint IRQ 0 Capabilities: [e0] Message Signalled Interrupts: 64bit+ Queue=0/2 Enable- Capabilities: [100] Advanced Error Reporting According to aacraid.txt in the kernel doc it is a: 9005:0286:1014:9580 IBM ServeRAID 8k/8k-l8 (Aurora) Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.crc.dk ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Tom Diehl wrote: ... They do but nothing I can find in there tells me if it is real hardware raid or fake raid. Adaptec for example, also says that their fake raid cards are comaptable with Linux but they do not clearly specify if it is fake raid or true hardware Raid. AFAIK the Adaptec cards are all fake Raid. and some of ServeRaid cards were also based on the Adaptec chipset and hence Fake Raid. My IBM x3500 machines have this card: # lspci ... 03:00.0 RAID bus controller: Adaptec AAC-RAID (Rocket) (rev 02) ... I'm not quite sure if this also has an IBM serveraid name. I don't think it is fakeraid; setting up raid devices can take place at bios level, the buildup of the RAID5 or RAID6 volumes can run without any drivers loaded. If this is fakeraid I would like a clear definition of the term fakeraid. Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.crc.dk ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Ross S. W. Walker wrote: ... I hate to be the stater of the obvious... but doesn't IBM's website provide product specs along with a compatibility guide? I have tried asking questions on IBM's support fora, the answer is: CentOS? Not supported. Get RHEL3 or RHEL4. Some of the install scripts of IBM's software checks the contents of /etc/redhat-release so I had to modify this file into: # cat /etc/redhat-release CentOS release 5 (Final) Red Hat Enterprise Linux release 4 to get it to install the software (on a CentOS 5 machine). Mogens -- Mogens Kjaer, Carlsberg A/S, Computer Department Gamle Carlsberg Vej 10, DK-2500 Valby, Denmark Phone: +45 33 27 53 25, Fax: +45 33 27 47 08 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage: http://www.crc.dk ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Ross S. W. Walker wrote: Tom Diehl wrote: Hi Tim, On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Tim Verhoeven wrote: On 9/13/07, Tom Diehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone know how I can find out if an ibm serveraid 8k sas storage controller (zero channel RAID) is a real hardware RAID controller and supported in the standard CentOs kernel or is it a fake raid controller. I am trying to decide if I should get the serveraid controller or go get a 3ware controller. Tom, The ServeRAID 8k s a real hardware raid controller, is has 256 MB of cache I think and a battery backup. So in this case there is no need for a 3ware controller. On the IBM website you can also find a commandline tool (called arcconf) that allows you monitor and configure the controller inside Linux. Is there a place where this kind of thing is documented? I looked through Google for about 3 hrs yesterday and I could not find anything definitive. Thank You, for the info. I hate to be the stater of the obvious... but doesn't IBM's website provide product specs along with a compatibility guide? They do but nothing I can find in there tells me if it is real hardware raid or fake raid. Adaptec for example, also says that their fake raid cards are comaptable with Linux but they do not clearly specify if it is fake raid or true hardware Raid. AFAIK the Adaptec cards are all fake Raid. and some of ServeRaid cards were also based on the Adaptec chipset and hence Fake Raid. When I looked at the IBM specs for the ServerRaid cards I did not see anything that indicated if the were real hardware raid or Fake Raid. If I am missing something please enlighten me. I am always willing to learn. IMO this type of thing is ambigious at best. Regards, -- Tom Diehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spamtrap address [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
RE: [CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Tom Diehl wrote: > > Hi Tim, > > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Tim Verhoeven wrote: > > > On 9/13/07, Tom Diehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >> Does anyone know how I can find out if an ibm serveraid > 8k sas storage > >> controller (zero channel RAID) is a real hardware RAID > controller and > >> supported in the standard CentOs kernel or is it a fake > raid controller. > >> I am trying to decide if I should get the serveraid > controller or go get > >> a 3ware controller. > > > > Tom, > > > > The ServeRAID 8k s a real hardware raid controller, is has 256 MB of > > cache I think and a battery backup. So in this case there is no need > > for a 3ware controller. On the IBM website you can also find a > > commandline tool (called arcconf) that allows you monitor and > > configure the controller inside Linux. > > Is there a place where this kind of thing is documented? I > looked through Google > for about 3 hrs yesterday and I could not find anything definitive. > > Thank You, for the info. I hate to be the stater of the obvious... but doesn't IBM's website provide product specs along with a compatibility guide? -Ross __ This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original and any copy or printout thereof. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
[CentOS] Re: hardware raid vs fake raid
Hi Tim, On Thu, 13 Sep 2007, Tim Verhoeven wrote: On 9/13/07, Tom Diehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anyone know how I can find out if an ibm serveraid 8k sas storage controller (zero channel RAID) is a real hardware RAID controller and supported in the standard CentOs kernel or is it a fake raid controller. I am trying to decide if I should get the serveraid controller or go get a 3ware controller. Tom, The ServeRAID 8k s a real hardware raid controller, is has 256 MB of cache I think and a battery backup. So in this case there is no need for a 3ware controller. On the IBM website you can also find a commandline tool (called arcconf) that allows you monitor and configure the controller inside Linux. Is there a place where this kind of thing is documented? I looked through Google for about 3 hrs yesterday and I could not find anything definitive. Thank You, for the info. Regards, -- Tom Diehl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Spamtrap address [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
