Re: [CentOS-docs] Create ThinkPad R61i laptop page

[Max Hetrick]

Akemi Yagi wrote:
> On Dec 27, 2007 1:45 PM, Max Hetrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think that your name needs to be added to the laptop group before
> you can add/edit that page.  I'm afraid Ralph is on vacation now but
> hopefully he will check his e-mail soon.


Ok cool, I can wait. I'm jealous, I hope he's having fun!

Regards,
Max

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[CentOS-docs] Create ThinkPad R61i laptop page

[Max Hetrick]

Hi,

I just purchased a new ThinkPad R61i since my R40 died. I previously ran
CentOS 4 on my old one, but have loaded CentOS 5 on the new one. I'd
like to add whatever I can regarding my hardware.

I followed the directions for adding a laptop page, but I was never
promoted to enter any information after choosing the laptop template. I
did login with my username first as well.

The page would need to be Lenovo Thinkpad R61i.

Username: MaxHetrick

Thanks,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Create ThinkPad R61i laptop page

[Max Hetrick]

Karanbir Singh wrote:
> Max Hetrick wrote:
> 
> Just to make sure YOU dont get any time off, I have added your name to
> the LaptopGroup, so edit away!


And I thought I would get a break... :)

Thanks.

Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Create ThinkPad R61i laptop page

[Max Hetrick]

Ralph Angenendt wrote:

> 
> Yeah, you should be jealous, as I'm at
>  at the moment (no, not
> right at this moment).
> 
> Expect me back on January 1st, though I'm reading here. But Karanbir
> already took care of that, as I saw :)

Yeah, Karanbir got me fixed up, thanks. Enjoy the rest of your trip!

Regards,
Max
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[CentOS-docs] rsnapshot page and wiki format converter

[Max Hetrick]

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Hi guys,

I noticed you have a backup section on the wiki. I wrote a quick guide
to installing and and using rsnapshot on CentOS 5.1. If interested,
check it out here on my website. If you'd create a page, I'd be more
than happy to post it.



This leads me to the next question. Is there some type of converter to
run HTML to the wiki format that you are using. I think MoinMoin used to
be what you were using for the wiki. I didn't do a Google search, but
gladly will if you don't know of anything off hand.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] rsnapshot page and wiki format converter

[Max Hetrick]

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Max Hetrick wrote:

> This leads me to the next question. Is there some type of converter to
> run HTML to the wiki format that you are using. I think MoinMoin used to
> be what you were using for the wiki. I didn't do a Google search, but
> gladly will if you don't know of anything off hand.


I hate replying to my own post, but I answered my question.

<http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/HTML/HTML-WikiConverter-MoinMoin-0.50.readme>
<http://diberri.dyndns.org/wikipedia/html2wiki/>

I installed it as a Perl module and it seems to work well from the
command line.

Regards,
Max

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[CentOS-docs] Multiple version documentation

[Max Hetrick]

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Hi guys,

How are we to handle multiple versions of How-Tos? Meaning, I have
document foo written for CentOS 4.x, but update it to reflect CentOS
5.x. Do you want a new page reflecting what release it's written for
while keeping the old one intact? Do you want it inside the same page?
Do you want a new page?

I have a few pages I was going to go through and update to using CentOS
5.x, but I know that many people might find the documents still useful
for 4.x, so I hate to completely wipe directions for something still
being used.

Is there a standard for this on the wiki? If not, should one be considered?

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] I'd like to contribute to the wiki

[Max Hetrick]

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Ralph Angenendt wrote:

> I can understand if you don't have the time to reformat your article to
> our wiki "typesetting", but I'm sure that we can work that out somehow -
> for example you put the stuff online, one of us then will go over it and
> format it correctly.


Hi, Ralph.

I found this tool very useful in my formatting from HTML to the CentOS
wiki format. It's HTML to Wiki Converter, which is a Perl module easily
installed on CentOS.

I wrote a post about it here on my site, and it's what I use now to
convert my pages there over to the wiki so I don't have to worry about
cross-posting. I change it once there, run this tool, then copy the
output to the CentOS wiki.



Alternatively, if people don't want to install anything you can run
it via the web.



Is this something that could be advertised to others to thwart having to
maintain multiple formats across sites, especially with long articles?

Regards,
Max

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[CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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Hi guys,

Someone on the list today was asking about diskless clients. I have a
guide written for doing diskless clients across NFS and PXE. I noticed
there was nothing existing on the wiki for such a thing.

I wanted to ask before I created the main category "Diskless Clients"
under the How To page. Any objections to that there? Or suggest a better
title?

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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Ralph Angenendt wrote:

> Not really, go ahead (IMHO).


Done.

Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:

>> Do you have a workaround for it. IE:Manually? system config netboot is not 
>> included in CentOS 5. There is a Bugzila report on 
>> redhat that I was pointed to that said it maybe released in another version 
>> of RHEL v5. I on the otherhand obtained 
>> the package from the Fedora Core 6 repo. Installed it but have done no 
>> further testing than that.
> 
>> When I have the time I can validate wether or not the package will work. In 
>> theory it should be just fine. Or you can 
>> your self and add CentOS 5 also to the How To instead of just centos 4.
> 

I never actually verified it with 5. I haven't had time to do so. I can
pull off that line on there about it "should work with 5."

Feel free to add any notes or change what you can to make it work with 5.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:


>> When I get around to Veryfing it working i'll post my findings to here
>> in the docs list for you.It is your How To you can add the the
>> appropiate notes on it [my opinion]. You can leave it, should work with
>> 5 because you can manually add the hosts, ipaddys and etc. Maybe someone
>> else could give an opinion also on that. 

Hi, John. Doesn't matter to me. I'd be more than happy to share the work
with you. Add what you feel is appropriate to the how to and just add
your name to the link. I'll copy that and put it on my website with your
name as well to credit the work that you've done.

I'm not huge into name attribution. I just like writing guides for fun
as it's my way to give back for the hard work that the CentOS
maintainers put into such a wonderful community project. That's another
reason my guides aren't always up to date, because it's my hobby and I
don't always have time to verify with the latest and greatest.

Just let me know how you'd like me to put the appropriate/relevant
CentOS 5 notes as.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:

>> This is not compatable with CentOS 5...
>> # yum install system-config-netboot
>> # system-config-netboot
> 
>> Do you have a workaround for it. IE:Manually? system config netboot is not 
>> included in CentOS 5. There is a Bugzila report on 
>> redhat that I was pointed to that said it maybe released in another version 
>> of RHEL v5. I on the otherhand obtained 
>> the package from the Fedora Core 6 repo. Installed it but have done no 
>> further testing than that.

Hi, John.

I found this thread about system-config-netboot not being part of RHEL 5.

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00125.html

Apparently it will be included in the future again after they work some
technical difficulties through. In the meantime, apparently the FC6
package works fine.

I'll test it out and make the appropriate changes within the next few days.

Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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Max Hetrick wrote:

> I'll test it out and make the appropriate changes within the next few days.

John,

After getting things to work, I ran into a kernel panic problem when
trying to boot up.

I found this link that tried to get things taken care of to work, but I
was unsuccessful. It keeps running into a kernel panic during boot.

http://www-theorie.physik.unizh.ch/~dpotter/howto/diskless

Let me know if you've been able to discover anything. I'm guessing this
is too much of a PITA to do on 5 until RHEL gets the tools corrected,
especially whenever you can easily get it working with 4.6 without much
effort.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:

>> Will. know something here in a few hours. If the Clients want boot then
>> I will try the patches as I *have* to have this to work on v5. Only
>> other option is Cobbler,which is prolly going to replace net-boot. It is
>> source only. I would however like to know if it will make it to the cent
>> fast track repo. 

Ok. Just let me know what you discover and/or what needs added to the
docs to make it work. I followed the patches on that link, so perhaps
one of those wasn't correct. Try the patches and we'll see what happens
for you.

Thanks, John.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Re: Diskless Setup

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:

> I get the error of the kernel panic after getting it to boot my default
> client configuration. The Kernel error indicates it can't mount the root
> file system. So if I'm thinking correct it has a bad initrd.img file. I
> am thinking of possibly rebuilding it in the client bits directory.

This is exactly what happened to me as well.

> All of this was with and without the Patches applied. I could not to no
> avail get 'updateDiskless' patch to work. It would bail out with errors
> all the time.

I was having some issues trying to do the patches too.

> I will let know on Saturday with what I come up with as today is a
> workday 

Good luck.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:

> I think the best solution for right now is to take off the CentOS 5. In
> the mean time I'll be testing Cobbler out from the Testing repo this
> week. Perhaps maybe a section could be written on the Wiki for using
> cobbler and you could provide a link to it from yours. Example: Please
> see this link here for CentOS 5 Diskless Installs. That is when cobbler
> makes it to the extra repo. Any ideas on this?

Agreed. I already added notes about not being able to get it working in
CentOS 5. I provided the hacks link for those interested in trying, but
made sure it was stated that it did not work for me.

I've never used Cobbler before, so I can't write the docs right off
hand. If there's someone else willing to do this I can link to them. I'm
sure eventually I'll use it if I need to do network boots off CentOS 5,
but for the time being I don't plan on using it. Long term, maybe.

We could also change the title of my doc to make sure it's unique to
CentOS 4 and then the new document on cobbler could be unique: Diskless
Clients CentOS 5.

> In my opinion I can't provide an application to a client in real life
> that requires more Hacks than the law allows. In reality they left it
> out for a good reason. There's tons of changes between 4 and 5.

Also agreed. I tried to get it working myself just for documentation's
sake even though I don't require it's use on CentOS 5 yet, but it
failed. Can't say we didn't try. :)
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Diskless Clients

[Max Hetrick]

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John wrote:


>> Sure we can it is up to you if you want to put a link to it (you wrote
>> it). When I get the my Cobbler situation sorted out i'll let you know.
>> If I feel like I can do a good enough job of writing it (maybe with help
>> and extra pointers), I'll volunteer to write it as there people asking
>> about it. Ralph said no one has given any feedback on it how how things
>> installed, worked etc. He'll be getting some this week about it though.


Sounds good, John.

I'd be more than happy to help out with the writing. Just message me off
list with whatever help, questions, or pointers you need.

Regards,
Max
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[CentOS-docs] Added new guide OCS Inventory NG to wiki

[Max Hetrick]

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Hi, everyone.

I added a new guide for installing and configuring the OCS Inventory NG
server/client system on CentOS 5.x. Also, there's some brief
explanations for integrating it into GLPI.

I added it under non CentOS applications, since I think it fits in best
there.

Regards,
Max


- --
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added new guide OCS Inventory NG to wiki

[Max Hetrick]

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dnk wrote:
| I am interested in comparing notes as I just documented my install on
| Centos and was going to offer it to the wiki as well.


Feel free to add to it, edit it, correct it, or make changes to improve
it. :) I didn't concentrate on install GLPI, perhaps if you did, we can
merge that section to make it more detailed.

Regards,
Max


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[CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Hi everyone,

I added a page under the HowTos for Encryption, and then added a guide 
for encrypting /tmp /swap and /home using cryptsetup and LUKS keys on 
LVM, when you already have partitions setup.


http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/EncryptTmpSwapHome

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:



Please try to follow the wiki styling guidelines:

http://wiki.centos.org/HowToContribute/EditingCentOSWiki

That means you should e.g. use headings for titles and subtitles. Take
a look at existing pages to see what I mean.



I write my stuff in HTML, and then use html2wiki to format it. My 
headings are formatted for my website, which saves me from writing two 
sets of documents since both places are identical in content to the page.


It's never been a problem before with all the pages I've contributed to, 
at least no one has spoke up with the other pages.


Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:


We are just trying to offer a common look & feel on the wiki. I am
going to rework you page so that you can see what I mean.


I understand and know what you mean, but it can be cumbersome and time 
consuming to have to write pages in multiple formats. I like writing 
docs for CentOS, but I also host them on my website where they are 
written in HTML first. I find wiki syntax to be annoying to write first 
drafts in, because that's just my preference.


I'll try to more mindful about it in the future, on future posts and 
pages. Would you prefer to have documentation submitted by the community 
and people like myself who volunteer docs to delegated members to format 
uniformly on the wiki, rather than posting it myself?


Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:


First I just want to make one thing clear: I really appreciate your
work which is well done. There are just some small formatting rules
you should mind of.

As mentioned it's mostly about headings. I am going to rework it for
you. In general I (and a few other wiki contributors) try to take care
of the styling and re-work pages to fulfill our needs. But (at least
me) always add changelog notes on style modification to line out what
I have done and try to talk to the original contributor so that she/he
could do in on her/his own on future additions.


I'm not trying to start an argument, so let's just drop this 
conversation and  I'll deal with it. When I get time, I'll re-work all 
my pages on the wiki with what you want, but I can't guarantee when that 
will be.


Thanks,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Dag Wieers wrote:


Would it be possible to change the resulting output of your html2wiki 
script to something the CentOS Wiki uses ? I don't think it can be that 
hard as it mainly is the syntax for the headings.



Dag,

I don't know, honestly. It's a Perl program I found, and I'm not a 
programmer. There seem to be no options for changing the output of what 
headings you want equaling to the outcome.


http://search.cpan.org/dist/HTML-WikiConverter/bin/html2wiki

You just choose a wiki dialect and it spits out the formatting, without 
much option for anything else.


Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Akemi Yagi wrote:


According to:

http://search.cpan.org/~diberri/HTML-WikiConverter-0.62/lib/HTML/WikiConverter.pm#DESCRIPTION

There is a wiki dialect called "MoinMoin".  Are you already using this one ?



Yes, when I do my converting, I do the following:

html2wiki --dialect MoinMoin my_file.html > my_file.wiki

And, yep, I have the MoinMoin dialect package installed. That isn't the 
issue though. The issue is I'm using h2, h3, and h4's for my HTML. I'm 
not starting with h1 as my top heading for my HTML pages on my site.


So, when the converting is done, it looks like this:

h2 equals === Title 3 ===
h3 equals  Title 4 
h4 equals = Title 5 

Everything is working as designed, it's just since I'm starting my 
headers off using h2 as the starting point, because that's how I want it 
to look on my website theme, the MoinMoin headers are starting one down, 
and that's not how you guys want things to look.


I'm sure most would argue, I'm in the wrong because I'm not starting off 
with h1's as my starting point for headers. Again, let's not get too 
worked up over this. I'll just have to spend more time changing the 
formatted text before I copy and paste changes over. It's not a big deal 
to me, and I certainly didn't mean to irritate anyone because of 
formatting on my part.


Long term, I can fix it by starting off with h1's, which will equal == 
Title 1 == MoinMoin style, and I'll re-work my theme of my website to 
make the CSS h1's smaller. That'll make me happy with how my site 
appears, and still allow me to use the converter saving me time on 
posting material to the wiki -- thus making you guys happy. :) For now 
though, can we just drop this, please? I think enough people's time has 
been wasted today.


Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

To further explain things, MoinMoin starts off headers with = Title 1 = 
and here's the problem with the html2wiki converter, it actually doesn't 
convert the h1 correctly with how I would logically think it should work.


h1 equals == Title 2 ==
h2 equals === Title 3 ===
h3 equals  Title 4 
h4 equals = Title 5 

Ultimately, the conversion being done is wrong, because the Title 1 
exists, but html2wiki starts off with Title 2.


So, even if I re-work my headings on my website, the converter tool 
wouldn't do the correct job for what you want things to look like.


I would say that the conversation should realistically look like this:

h1 equals = Title 1 =
h2 equals == Title 2 ==
h3 equals === Title 3 ===
h4 equals  Title 4 
h5 equals = Title 5 =

But it doesn't, so I'll live the tool the way it is since it still saves 
me a ton of time with MoinMoin syntax.


Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:


There are just some small formatting rules
you should mind of.


Fixed. I also fixed all my other pages while I was at it, so I didn't 
have to worry about them.


In the future, I'll make sure the formatting is correct on any new 
material I submit.


Thanks,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Filipe Brandenburger wrote:


html2wiki --dialect MoinMoin my_file.html | sed '/^=/s/==\(=*\)/\1/g'


Thanks, Filipe.

That changes all the headings to = Title 1 =. I think I'll contact the 
maintainer of html2wiki and see if they know whether or not the MoinMoin 
dialect is behaving the way it is.


Once I investigated it, I really think it's not behaving the way it 
should for MoinMoin.


In the meantime, I'll play around with your sed one-liner there.

Thanks!
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Filipe Brandenburger wrote:


No it doesn't. It removes two "=" from each line that starts with a
"=" (i.e. is a title line). So it transforms

=== title 3 ===into   = title 1 =
 title 4 into   == title 2 ==
= title 5 =into   === title 3 ===


Ahhh, crap! You're right. I realized I just ran it on the file that I 
corrected into proper formatting, that I used to change the guide into 
what the wiki format needs.


It's been a long day.

Thanks, again.

I'll use this until I get my things fixed up, and then I'll still 
contact the html2wiki developer to get this corrected for good.


Thanks a bunch.
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Max Hetrick wrote:
To further explain things, MoinMoin starts off headers with = Title 1 = 
and here's the problem with the html2wiki converter, it actually doesn't 
convert the h1 correctly with how I would logically think it should work.


I contacted the Perl developer of HTML-WikiConverter-MoinMoin and 
explained the problem. It's definitely a bug in the converter dialect.


The author asked me to file a bug report for him on CPAN, so I did so. 
In the meantime, I'll use Filipe's sed script to get the output needed. 
In case anyone else is using this, I wanted to follow up.


Changes were made to the encryption page, as well as corrections to the 
rest of my pages. When you get a chance, Marcus, take a look and make 
sure the formatting is correct.


Thanks.
Max

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[CentOS-docs] Visualization and desktop page

[Max Hetrick]

Hi, all.

How appropriate would a visualization and desktop "prettification" page 
be? I know like myself a lot of people use CentOS not only as their 
server, but also as their main desktop system.

This page could be for used for adding desktop magic programs, tips, 
tricks, and visualizations.

I was going to write a guide for installing and using Conky, if so.



What's everyone think for having such a page to put these types of things?

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Visualization and desktop page

[Max Hetrick]

Karanbir Singh wrote:

> Just so everyone is one the same level here, could you please
> define: Visualizations

I guess I shouldn't have used that term. What I mean are apps like 
desktop eye candy programs: gdesklets, conky, etc.

Does that make more sense? I know it's not CentOS specific, and sure not 
server specific, which is why I ask. But I know people pretty up their 
CentOS installations that they use as desktops, and thought I'd put the 
idea out there to chew on.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Visualization and desktop page

[Max Hetrick]

Scott Robbins wrote:

> I know I'd like to see such things (as one of the culprits in a way,
> having a few articles on laptops on the wiki.)  
> 
> Actually, by odd coincidence, just today I was thinking of putting Conky
> on one of them.  But if Max, whose nagios articles I recommend to
> everyone, regardless of O/S, who is having trouble figuring out the
> nagios docs, is writing about it, I'll wait till he writes it to do it.
> 
> So here's one vote for it.   :)   (After seeing Max's post, I went to
> his site to see if he'd already done it there, but apparently not.)

Thanks, Scott! I really appreciate the compliments.

I haven't written it yet which is why it's no where to be found yet. I 
just discovered Conky today, and I really like it, so I figured why not 
write a guide up. I used to use gdesklets all the time, but haven't for 
awhile. Conky seems better to use after playing around with it.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Visualization and desktop page

[Max Hetrick]

John wrote:

> Hi Max maybe something along the line that Looks like Windows Vista
> Gadgets? I get asked alot but I've never looked into it though. Maybe
> there is something already like that? Things kinda like installing
> Google Earth? Your wantting that Windows Look and Feel?

I guess you could compare it to that, although, I'm not sure I'd use 
Windows or Vista as the comparison. ;) I'd say more like a Mac desktop 
look...at least there's a mention of Unix with mac. :)

But yes, anything visual like gadgets, system monitors on the desktop 
and taskbar, transparency with taskbars, etc. This could all be grouped 
under a page for such things.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that would have things to compile into a 
help page, but again, it could be considered extremely off topic and off 
target for the CentOS wiki.

Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Visualization and desktop page

[Max Hetrick]

John wrote:

> My opinion I don't find it really an off topic consideration to think
> about. I even use it on my laptop. I have clients that use it strictly
> for desktop use only and not as a server because they can not afford to
> buy Win XP or Vista. Introduce them to K3B, Mplayer or XMMS and there
> happy.

I agree. I use CentOS as both my desktop and server system at home, 
work, and on my laptop. I think it makes a great desktop, but I still 
thought it needed discussed before creating pages. Ultimately, the 
CentOS wiki team are who get the final say. :)

Regards,
Max
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[CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Hi, everyone.

I wrote a guide for installing and configuring BackupPC on a CentOS host 
using rsync as the primary backup method. As best as one can proof read 
their own writing, I did so, but please read through and feel free to 
correct and change any typos.



Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Filipe Brandenburger wrote:

> This is not directly related to your guide, but to BackupPC and the
> CentOS package for it... Sorry for taking this a little off your
> original topic.

That's ok. You're entitled to your opinion, however, I'm sure others 
will find my guide useful and helpful to heighten their experience with 
BackupPC.

> 1) It doesn't work on a 64-bit machine, since the Perl modules will be
> installed under /usr/lib64 but they will require '/usr/lib' instead.

My backup server isn't 64 bit, so I can't really say much here.

> 2) It requires mod_perl, which in turn requires you to run Apache as
> user backuppc, which is not something I would do on a machine where
> Apache is already being used for something else. Use it as a CGI is
> not trivial from there, and requires changing permissions to files
> deployed on the RPM (in other words, would be lost in an upgrade).

This is why you dedicate one server and one instance of Apache to being 
nothing but a backup server. I mention this is my guide, as does the 
README for the CentOS installation. They at least tell you that up 
front, so it should not be a surprise. Personally, I don't want a backup 
server doing anything else but backups.

> First I tried to work around these issues, but after a while I ended
> up getting the SRPM from Fedora 10 and rebuilding it in my machine and
> installing that one, and I have to say that it's much simpler than the
> one provided by CentOS. It works out of the box on a 64-bit machine,
> the administration interface is installed by default as a CGI
> (although I believe someone experienced enough would easily be able to
> use that same one with mod_perl just by changing Apache's config) and
> it actually includes a /etc/httpd/conf.d/backuppc file that works out
> of the box.

I found it to be pretty simple. Considering I just switched all my 
backups from rsnapshot over to BackupPC this week, and this was the 
first week I've ever used BackupPC in my life, I don't think it was that 
difficult to implement. But, I'm running x86 not x86_64, thus my 
experience was better.

> The only issue I had with the Fedora RPM is that changing TopDir on
> the config file does not work, but that is an issue upstream and I'm
> almost sure CentOS one will not work either. I opened this bug for
> that, but it's still not fixed:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=473944

Changing the TopDir worked fine for me, it just complained that cpool 
and pc didn't exist if you change the path. Create the directories and 
make backuppc the owner and it works fine. I'm pointing my backups to an 
encrypted /srv/backuppc directory and things are working fine.

> Anyway, I'm very thankful for CentOS and I don't mean this e-mail as
> bashing the work of the packagers, this were only my impressions when
> I tried to implement this specific software, and I'm only stating my
> opinion here. In other words, I'm not saying that the Fedora package
> is better, I'm just saying it worked better for me, with less need to
> tweak, with a simpler setup.

So far, my experience has been good enough to write a guide for it. I've 
found some 64 bit applications to be a pain, so don't let that ruin your 
opinion.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Karanbir Singh wrote:

> Can the article not be made more Arch agnostic ?

Sure, why not if that's something the EditGroup decides on. Why couldn't 
we just put x86 and x86_64 is the titles?
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

S.Tindall wrote:

> 1) Add the wiki reference, which contains clarification of many points
> not addressed sufficiently in the documentation.
> 
> http://backuppc.wiki.sourceforge.net/

Done.

> 2) Also, a bug report contains corrective measures for the 64-bit
> installation.
> 
> http://bugs.centos.org/view.php?id=3175
> 
> 3) Web interface documentation link issues are addressed in another bug
> report:
> 
> http://bugs.centos.org/view.php?id=3190

> 5) A section addressing backing up Macs would be very helpful (to me).
> The official documentation is very lacking in that area.

Do you have edit rights on the wiki? If so, feel free to add to or edit. 
Adding a section on Windows and Macs isn't very CentOS specific, so I 
doubt I'll be adding that, but if others want it, and have the ability 
to edit, feel free to add to my work.

As I stated in the guide, it's primary content is for installing 
configuring BackupPC on CentOS, and backing up across rsync to other 
Linux servers.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

S.Tindall wrote:

> Nope. Maybe someday.

So you're asking me to apply something to a guide which you want, but 
yet to you don't want to offer time to add to the document yourself?

> My view of a HowTo's purpose is to make the described service useful to
> a wide audience.  You don't interact with or administer window$ systems?

Yes, I interact with Windows systems. All my desktop machines at work 
are Windows, however I don't back anything up from them. I use roaming 
profiles under Samba, which is under Linux. All user settings are then 
backed up normally from the Linux Samba server.

> If we limited the HowTos to centos-specific issues, they would read like
> a readme file.  Consider the centos wiki mail HowTos which contain
> significant non-centos information that helps people get their mail
> server up and running securely.

Again, my guide stated it was primarily for a CentOS BackupPC server 
backing up other Linux servers and machines. If you want it to be more 
broad, then add the content that you want. That's the entire point of a 
Wiki.

> Yes, I back up content and configurations on my web and mail servers
> along with my linux workstations using it. Adding window$ and Mac
> clients strikes me as a natural and useful extension.

Ok, so add that part. When I wrote that guide this week, I had no 
intention on needing that aspect. So, if you need it, then write the 
sections and add it.

Eventually I might need those aspects of BackupPC, but for now, I don't. 
Considering that you don't seem to be volunteering your time and writing 
to adding to the page, you seem to be awfully picky and demanding of 
what I spent time writing. If it's not what you want, improve on it then.

For the third time to everyone, if you have something you want to 
change, add, edit, or delete, go to it. I don't know how to be more 
clear that I don't care if you want to edit or add to any of my pages 
I've contributed to.

That being said, I'm personally done discussing this. You don't seem to 
be very appreciative to others volunteering any kind of time to the Wiki.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Scott Dowdle wrote:

> Wow.  Thanks for the BackupPC guide.  I've looked at BackupPC a few times 
> over the last couple of years but haven't gotten around to actually trying to 
> deploy it yet because something always got bumped up in front of as being a 
> more important task... mainly because the modest rsync/rdiff-backup setup was 
> working well enough.  Your guide will enable me to deploy in a more timely 
> and productive manner when the time does come.

Thanks, Scott.
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Akemi Yagi wrote:

> Of course, missing "l" is important (in fairy).  :-D

We have fairies now too on the wiki? Cool! :-D

Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Akemi Yagi wrote:

> I have been following this thread and re-read the whole thing.  No one
> is finding fault with your article.  No one is saying the article is
> lacking or missing points.  As I see the notes in this thread, I only
> see positive response and positive comments which might make the
> article even better.  Yes, it is already an excellent one but even an
> excellent one could be made better.  I am really sad if you felt
> offensive.
> 
> Each person has a different way of contributing to the CentOS
> community and to a different degree.  Some can write and contribute
> Wiki articles and others can only make comments or suggestions in
> hopes that they can help in some way.  If someone makes suggestions to
> what I have contributed on the Wiki but cannot spend own time to
> add/modify them, I would still be grateful to him/her for that.
> 
> I would like to repeat once again, I do not find anything in any of
> the notes in this thread that you should take as negatives toward your
> writing.  But that is just my view which could be biased (certainly
> hope not).

Point taken, and I certainly apologize for sounding snippy, that was not 
my intent. It's just that the guide started out stating it was 
referencing something specific is all my point was. If others want to 
expand on that, I fully support that. And it's great if others want to 
contribute ideas to it, that's the point of a wiki.

Steve seemed to have some specific ideas he wanted added, so that's 
great if he or others want to expand on that. :) Again, the entire point 
of a wiki is for others to be able to contribute to already written 
material.

There seems to be so much of a grey line here on the CentOS lists about 
what's off-topic and what's not. One time, a subject is off topic, and 
then the next, it's ok to branch out and be broad. That being said, I 
usually try to keep my writing contributed to CentOS specific things so 
I don't go off too far one way or the other.

Just like the other day when I posted about creating a page of 
visualizations and what not, there was not much said among the Edit 
Group, because it was rather off-topic, even though a few people 
expressed interest and relevance. So, I'm not entire sure sometimes how 
to approach writing for CentOS for fear of being "off-topic." Usually 
when you start talking Windows on any CentOS list, you're told pretty 
quickly to take it elsewhere.

Obviously, if someone is mentioning adding Windows things to guides, I 
don't want to be the one adding it because I don't want to upset the 
CentOS higher ups that push Windows is off-topic. I hope you understand 
what I'm trying to explain.

I certainly didn't mean to sound harsh, so I wanted to explain a little 
further.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

William L. Maltby wrote:

> I read the thread the same as you. Maybe Max was stressed and misread
> the intent of Steve.

You are correct William, I did misread what Steve was trying to say, and 
I didn't mean to sound harsh. I also explained in my reply back to Akemi 
why I felt Windows was off-topic: because the CentOS lists kind of 
create that feeling.

That's why I didn't really want to discuss Windows related things.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Encrypting tmp swap and home

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:

> We are just trying to offer a common look & feel on the wiki. I am
> going to rework you page so that you can see what I mean.

Just to follow up on the formatting issue we had when this page was 
created, I wanted to post a note.

The author of the HTML-WikiConverter-MoinMoin converter that I use, 
fixed the bug where HTML to the MoinMoin wasn't converted over correctly 
to MoinMoin format.

So, in case any one else is using this tool, get the latest version, and 
we won't have any more issues with the formatting. :)

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Added BackupPC Guide

[Max Hetrick]

Ned Slider wrote:

> WRT your point above, IMHO major information (potential show stoppers) 
> such as dist or arch specific notes would probably be best included in a 
> note at the *top* of the document rather than the bottom. I'd be a 
> little miffed at reading a whole document only to discover right at the 
> bottom of the page that there is an arch or dist gotcha that applies to 
> me. IHMO if there are clear advantages to running on a particular dist 
> or arch it should be clearly stated up front.

I agree here. Placing notes at the top would be much better than at the 
bottom of a HowTo, that way no one's time gets wasted by reading 
something that doesn't work on a particular arch.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] adding stuff to wiki

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:

> 'If you need perl modules, DO NOT use CPAN, as that will most likely
> break your perl installation. Please try to package the perl module
> with either cpan2rpm or use the spec template for perl modules from
> fedora-rpmdevtools. Same goes for python.'

Not everyone is capable of packaging, nor do they want to fiddle with 
packaging, though. Although I find it easier to install Perl modules 
that are already packaged, say through RPMForge, not every Perl module 
that I need is found in RPM form.

I've been using some Perl modules loaded on many systems from CPAN, 
because I can't find them already packaged, and I've not had any issues. 
I'm one of those that don't want to fiddle with repackaging, mainly 
because I don't understand packaging very well. I'm sure there are many 
others exactly the same, that would find tips on using CPAN helpful.

Just because it's not the way you do it, doesn't make it wrong for 
others to use. The whole point of the wiki is to have documentation to 
allow others to use CentOS better as a whole, so I see it as a benefit 
to have it documented on the wiki for others to read.

If it's known to break things, then just have a note that CPAN has been 
known to break your Perl instance. For users like myself, I've not had 
any problems loading the few CPAN modules that I use on my systems. I 
know I have little say in the matter, but it's just my experience and 
opinion.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] adding stuff to wiki

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:
> Good Evening Jeff.
> 
>> Please consider being less discouraging to people who want to help.
> I think it's not about discouraging someone. Just post a snipset of
> what you want to contribute to the wiki, so we can discuss it here.

I can actually sympathize with the original poster here. I had to 
"prove" myself by continuing to come back to the CentOS wiki posting 
material, before I was trusted enough to be allowed to post things. I 
usually still always post a note asking for permission before I post a 
document I wrote, which sometimes gives me mixed emotions.

I too sometimes feel discouraged when asking to post to the wiki. Part 
of that is, I think, how e-mail is very bland to read. You can't always 
assume the intent of the e-mail, versus in person. I generally think 
that everyone is here to help, but I sometimes feel discouraged easily 
by this list and the wiki. Perhaps that's just me not reading people 
correctly, but I feel if a document has good content, and is related to 
CentOS, then it can be helpful to others using CentOS. Depending on the 
content, and the topic though, some feel it might not be suitable on the 
wiki.

While I understand the need to control the wiki against abuse of 
posting, I think that sometimes it's controlled a little too tightly, 
and things can be nit-picked at by others easily to the point where it 
makes the contributor feel discouraged very easily.

The problem with this is that if it happens enough, then people aren't 
going to want to contribute, and will keep their documentation to 
themselves, or on their own websites.

Opening the wiki up will help out in this aspect. Again, this is all my 
opinion, and perhaps it's just me not reading people well, but I do 
think that it's a real problem sometimes. I'm sure there are a ton of 
great writers that use CentOS, but don't want to post things here. But I 
also do understand the need to protect the pages.

To the original poster, Jeff, just remember that if you post a few 
things and continue to do so, the hassle of things goes away pretty 
quickly. As a whole, a little bit of hassle at first will help other 
users in the long-run, but I do understand your position as well.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] [CentOS] Dangerous Software Raid instructions on Wiki

[Max Hetrick]

Chan Chung Hang Christopher wrote:

> 1) The Title of the article says "How to Setup a Software RAID on CentOS 5"
> 2) My successor is a real HK bred and born person so his command of the 
> English language is like most such persons; that is to say, very poor.
> 3) Regarding not letting him within ten feet of a production server, 
> well, that is not my business anymore. When I was there, I was the lone 
> ranger and so is my replacement. I guess it serves my previous boss 
> right who felt he could just pick anybody of the street to replace 
> because I only have high school education. Too bad he had to wait for 
> over six months to get what he has now.
> 4) Max, I actually agree with you but hey, the world is not perfect. 
> There will be clueless people given jobs they are not really suitable 
> for but we cannot just tell them to get lost can we now?
> Posted too to centos-docs for any further discussion.

Sorry for posting that to the main list. I hit reply and didn't see that 
   the reply to was still set for the main list.



Someone added a very bright disclaimer, so all should be good in the
future. I do agree with others that using /dev/sdX would probably be
wise as well in documentation, but that doesn't fix the true root of the
problem. People really should watch cutting and pasting, or typing,
commands on a Linux root without understanding what it is that the
commands are doing.

Is it possible you could help him with some basic Linux lessons then,
and/or point him to some beginner material so this doesn't happen again.

I just had a problem with blaming the author of a document, (I didn't
even write it) when the user did not read the document. If he doesn't
speak or read English well, then that doesn't help that, nor does adding
warnings help either if he can't read English well.

I'm not certain what languages the page has been translated to, but
perhaps look into that for him as well. Or can you translate the page?

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Martin Boel, Silverbullet wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I would like to contribute to the wiki.centos.org:
> username: boel
> subject: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2
> location: http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/Nagios
> content: A security feature of centos 5.2 SELinux prevents the access 
> from the apache httpd server to the needed /var/nagios files. The error 
> manifests itself in the /var/log/messages as "SELinux is preventing the 
> tac.cgi from using potentially mislabeled files ./status.dat (var_t)". A 
> workaround is to execute the command: chcon -R httpd_sys_content_t 
> /var/nagios
> 

When I wrote the Nagios guide, it was easier and recommended to just 
turn SELinux off before going about installing and using Nagios. Seems 
that the Nagios doc site has some information now in regards to SELinux, 
but I never went back to visit that topic.



Perhaps these can be incorporated into the guide if they are verified to 
work?

Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Christoph Maser wrote:

> Btw. i really consider the current nagios article on the wiki bad. Its
> totally outdated and covers way to much info how to configure nagios
> itself. In my opinion this should be simply replaced by links to the
> official documentation since it is out of place and incomplete.
> 

The point of the article was exactly that. I'll have to disagree here, 
since the point of the guide is how to install and configure Nagios for 
basic use. I personally don't care if you edit it to your likes, but 
many people find it useful as it is, because Nagios can be quite 
complicated to use.

Feel free to edit the article, however, if you remove too much, please 
delete my name from the top of the article, though.

I know the article is a bit out of date, but the basic principals of 
Nagios still function the same. I've not had time the last year to go 
through and re-write it to newer versions of Nagios. Probably all of my 
docs could use touch-ups, but some personal issues this past year has 
prevented me from doing so.

Again, feel free to change, add, delete irrelevant parts, etc. That's 
the point of the wiki, for others to add and change things. :)

Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Mathew S. McCarrell wrote:

> It might be simpler to just have a tutorial that uses the package that 
> is available from rpmforge.  I have already written such a tutorial and 
> it receives several hundred hits each month.  Its also the second result 
> in Google if you search for "install nagios centos."
> 


This article does use the RPMForge installation packages.

Regards,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Mathew S. McCarrell wrote:

> It might be simpler to just have a tutorial that uses the package that 
> is available from rpmforge.  I have already written such a tutorial and 
> it receives several hundred hits each month.  Its also the second result 
> in Google if you search for "install nagios centos."

I've not read your guide, but perhaps both could be united to make one 
that's current and suitable for everyone's needs. Just a thought too. :)

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Karanbir Singh wrote:

> How about splitting it up into 'Install Guide' and a 'Recommended first 
> steps'.
> 
> Having used Nagios ( or does Nagios use us ? ) I know there are a 
> million different ways to set things up. And only a few people really 
> need to get down and understand eveyrthing about every option. so how 
> about just creating a 'recommended start point' and have a few config 
> snippets.
> 
> That would then open up for a third page option, which can be focused 
> around 'best practises' that might be CentOS specific.

I think Nagios uses us. Agreed. I've been using Nagios for a long time, 
and I still don't have all the options down, as I don't need to use them 
all. When I need something, I go to the docs and look up more specific 
things.

In my experience with working with Nagios, the problem that always came 
up was that people didn't know where to even start because there were 
too many options, and they were overwhelmed.

Thus the reason I wrote the guide in the first place, to serve as a 
stepping stone to get it up and running with some basic checks, then go 
digging in the docs.

I feel it's important to have that information on the wiki, even though 
it's not CentOS specific. It's asked for a lot and used. Splitting it up 
would make sense.

+1 Sounds good to me.

Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Christoph Maser wrote:

> So we should make a proper nagios documentation on the centos-wiki
> because the official nagios docs suck?

No, but I don't see that it's a problem that it's on the CentOS wiki.

There are lots of guides on the wiki that aren't exactly CentOS 
specific, so does that mean we should scrap those as well?

What's the point of an OS, especially a server OS, that you can't extend 
on with other open source applications? The CentOS wiki serves as a 
wonderful place to store things that allow CentOS users and admins to 
come to one location and have resources and tools at their disposal, 
without having to go digging around the web finding what they need. 
That's the entire point of the wiki, so share, and so this CentOS 
specific topic that comes up all the time, I have a hard time with.

It's already been suggested to split the doc out into pieces. Everyone 
seemed to agree that was fine. If that's what everyone wants to do, then 
go for it, make the changes, and let this end. Arguing back and forth 
about this is silly though. Usually people are complaining that docs are 
lacking in detail, here people are complaining they are too detailed. 
I'm confused... :|

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Building yet another an off round wheel; was: Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

R P Herrold wrote:

> If people want to write content, they NEED TO GO TO FEDORA, or 
> the upstream, and get patches accepted, so the changes flow 
> back down in our future.  Go work at the trailhead, not in an 
> upstream project's past (here Nagios).

Your attitude on the wiki is exactly why people like myself will 
eventually stop coming back to post things. Why have a wiki at all. I'm 
to the point where I'm going to remove all my posts, and host them 
solely on my website and stop posting anything to the CentOS wiki, 
because these arguments and issues seem to crop up more and more from 
people. Or at least remove my name from all my pages and let them 
dissolve there.

Some, and not all, make it difficult for folks that are trying to 
contribute to CentOS. I remember Dag posting something similar on his 
blog in reference to attitude of CentOS towards people trying to help. 
This is the attitude driving people away that are trying to do whatever 
they can to give back. It's a shame.

The Nagios guide has been on the wiki for several years now, and I've 
had never anything but good things said about it, and thank you's from 
folks for people starting out with Nagios. Now all of a sudden there's 
a problem, and it shouldn't exist.

Regards,
Max
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[CentOS-docs] Please remove my wiki account

[Max Hetrick]

Wiki Admins,

I will no longer be participating in the CentOS wiki. I've removed my
name from any of the pages that were submitted by me, and welcome others 
to do so with the pages as they wish.

I'd like to be removed from the EditGroup, as well as have my account
deleted.

Username: MaxHetrick

Unfortunately, attitudes about what the wiki should be and currently 
are, and my own attitude about it, aren't aligned. The CentOS wiki 
should be a welcomed place for user contributed documentation, but as 
time goes on it seems as though that's not what many key people envision 
or want.

Attitudes of many CentOS persons have been leading to people leaving the 
community as of late. I'm certainly a peon, but that's not the point. 
The point is about attitudes. If attitudes don't start to change as a 
whole, no one will want to help out.

CentOS needs to clearly lay out more strict rules and guidelines for 
submissions in the future if they want more controlled content. I know 
for a fact there are many posts that aren't CentOS specific. Another 
guide I wrote for BackupPC is one such post. If these types of content 
aren't to be submitted by other contributors in the future, I suggest 
laying out some better steps to follow so people like myself know 
whether they can be useful to donate items or not.

I hope attitudes in the future start to change for the better.

Thanks,
Max

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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

Marcus Moeller wrote:

> So I am a bit disappointed (but can understand) ppl. like Max who
> already contributed high quality docs in the past are re-signing from
> contributing to the wiki (just because one or two other guys have a
> different pov). I have also suggested that docs like the CentOS
> specific owlriver rpm howtos  (http://www.owlriver.com/tips/non-root/)
> could as well resist on the CentOS wiki. But it's not my decision.


The problem is to me, and the reason I decided I don't want to 
contribute any longer, is the fact that you have CentOS team members not 
agreeing on a format for content. You have one or two saying they want 
it this way, and you have some saying it should be this way.

You have one team member stating they believe writers should go upstream 
for all documentation purposes, and then another saying no. The problem 
with that is the fact that it's not realistic to take that approach, 
because not all projects are going to be willing to fix their 
documentation upstream. That's the reason why I write things that I 
write. To make it easier on admins and users to get the application 
going, and then if they want to further learn, tackle more complex 
documentation. That's the exact reason the Nagios guide exists in the 
first place. When I started working with it, I had trouble learning it. 
I decided to make that experience better for others and write a howto.

To go off-topic, as a side job, I write publications with this exact 
approach and get paid for it. My articles there are exactly that, called 
TechTips. I take a piece of software, or a topic, and write a technical 
tip meant to get the reader/user up and running. Part of my success 
there has been because I take a how-to approach to the guides, which the 
readers love. From there, they can expand their horizons with 
documentation all they want for more complex issues. Obviously there is 
a need for such articles, because they pay me and tell me as such. :) 
They're in the business of documentation and articles, so they should 
know. Most people always want a more simple way of understanding a 
concept, rather than diving into code documentation, or this case, 
Nagios' cryptic and overwhelming docs.

To continue about the wiki, the problem for contributors like myself 
then becomes, well what do I do, or how should I write for them. 
Although I often times enjoy the democracy of opinions on the docs list, 
it becomes confusing for a contributor when you have team members 
disagreeing in public forum. One time a topic of post is ok'd to be put 
on, the next time then it's criticized and not ok. There is no 
consistency for authors and contributors, and I really believe that 
needs worked out within.

What really needs to occur is that the team members really need to agree 
on, and publish on the site, some standards that ALL the team members 
can agree on. At that level, all of these issues could be ironed out, to 
hopefully create a set of standards of acceptable content. Then these 
types of conversations and arguments won't need to occur, or in theory 
shouldn't need to occur.

Perhaps I'm dreaming here to think that everyone on the team can do so, 
but I think something like that needs to happen one way or the other, 
because eventually, no one is going to want to post on the wiki for 
these reasons.

Perhaps I'm out of line here, and perhaps I'm going on and on in a 
diatribe, but this is my opinion on the matter, and my further detailed 
reasons for not wanting the headache of contributing any longer.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] Contribution to wiki: nagios incompatibility with centos 5.2

[Max Hetrick]

R P Herrold wrote:

> if you are referring to me, your projection into what I wrote 
> has mislead you.

Well, I was kind of referring to what you said here:

 >> If people want to write content, they NEED TO GO TO FEDORA, or
 >> the upstream, and get patches accepted, so the changes flow
 >> back down in our future.  Go work at the trailhead, not in an
 >> upstream project's past (here Nagios).

Unless I misinterpreted, you're basically saying that to a writer they 
need to go work at the project they are documenting, not CentOS. But I 
disagree and feel you are wrong. The power of the CentOS wiki should be 
that it's the one-stop shop for admins searching for a powerful rock 
solid OS that has CentOS-specific documentation, PLUS one that has all 
these extra types of applications listed with documentation as well. A 
server admin or user gets the best of both worlds, and as already 
stated, has one place to look for resources, instead of following links 
to various pieces all over the Internet. To me, the point of a wiki is 
to share. I understand your view is different, our views are different.

Please, by all means, explain if that is not what you meant. That's what 
I took it as.

For the rest of it, I pretty much already explained myself, and Scott 
hits the nail on the head. You, being a team member, need to sit down 
with the other team members and figure out what you want on the wiki, 
create guidelines, and post them for others to follow. Your vision of 
what the wiki should be is different than mine, fine, you're obviously 
higher on the totem pole than I, so I'll just leave and take my docs 
with me. It's that attitude that I don't understand, and why others 
don't want to deal with it. The CentOS team and wiki needs to find some 
consistency.

Then, contributors can have something to look at to decide if their 
content fits. This would fix the issue of causing these wars and 
angering others. You would have the standards in place, and guidelines 
outlining what can and will get posted.

To be honest, I'm plenty busy in life, I don't need to worry about 
whether one of my articles or guides is going to tick off a CentOS team 
member, or please another. This is exactly why folks are leaving the 
project though, and it's a problem that should be resolved before you 
have no one left wanting to work on the wiki.

With that said, I really have no further comments on the this topic. 
I'll quit before I wear out my welcome. I've said my peace, explained 
why I won't be helping further, and truly hope you guys/gals figure out 
something before the no one wants to work on the wiki.

Regards,
Max
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Re: [CentOS-docs] "TipsAndTricks/ApacheVhostDir" changes for virtual host source files

[Max Hetrick]

Ed Heron wrote:
>  I see someone has noticed my lack of suggestions or recommendations for 
> placement of virtual host source files...
> 
>  Since there are many places to put virtual host source files, I had 
> intentionally avoided the discussion due to the complexities and to keep 
> the document restricted to a single topic.  I had planned to create a 
> separate document devoted to the discussion.  Specifically, there are a 
> couple of SELinux related issues to work out with a couple of them.  I 
> would start a discussion of the various places to put virtual host 
> source files and the issues associated with them.  Where should such a 
> discussion take place?  In one of the forums or on this list?
> 
>  However, I'm not sure what is meant by " The following section is the 
> approach advocated by its initial author, EdHeron. It is not clear that 
> varying from the approach above is warranted, and by the version from 
> him, does not explain the needed SElinux changes."
>  It appears to suggest my disclaimer, "Another method, for those of us 
> that might have a tendency to 'over engineer', is creating a new 
> directory, vhost.d for example, and putting an include where the 
> configuration, as distributed, has the virtual host example. This 
> retains the position of the virtual host definitions in the Apache 
> configuration", isn't enough to discourage most system administrators 
> from using it or explain my reasons and give a reader a hint that there 
> are other ways, even, from the three discussed?
>  The additional warning against the vhost.d/ section seems to 
> excessively disparage my contribution and discourage other options.  
> Certainly, it could be considered impolite to expand and significantly 
> modify the content of a document when the author is available and 
> willing to make changes.  As well, I seek to improve my documentation 
> technique and by-passing me deprives me of the opportunity.
> 
>  I'd like to know the process that culminated in the changes to my 
> document.  Are there a large number of people reading the document, not 
> understanding it but making non standard changes to their systems, and 
> requesting support?
> 

For what it's worth, Ed, I use the vhost.d container method as well. 
It's what I was taught and shown how to do. My IT manager has been doing 
so for years, and never had issues or troubles. Don't be discouraged, 
although it's easy to do in here anymore.

Regards,
Max
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