Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Was not meant as an insult. I have two good friends who joined the armed forces and later after leaving became programmers. One was just a couple credits shy of having a degree upon leaving the military and other had one, both done through the armed forces, I think both associates degrees Both might have been Navy but I think one was Navy and the other Air Force. I have always been told that those two branches work out better for getting a more technical education but have no proof to that. My grandfather who was rather high ranking in the Army before leaving it after WWII always referred to Army people as bullet stoppers. On 8/28/07, Steve Blades [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My last comment is to Aaron, who maybe didn't realize (or care) that others were watching. A great deal of my 'start' in programming began with the 9+ years I spent in the US Army. I would hire one good veteran, with little formal education, over a dozen snot nosed grads with no discipline. And I would have a far more productive team from doing so, in my experience. You might not have meant to come off insulting, but you insulted me. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Developer http://blog.cutterscrossing.com The best way to predict the future is to help create it Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:35:21 -0500 Join the military, just try not to join a branch that will make ya a bullet stopper On 8/27/07, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still, I think it is an expensive way to gain a focus. Surely there must be more cost effective ways? ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3445 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
I have, in past careers as well as this one, been in a position to hire and place people... I had been requested to hire only college grads as well (in the past; not at my current job). There were several instances where I hired qualified people from the military with only HS degrees... When my boss called me out on it, I told him to piss off... They're hired (in a very small company you can get away with that sometimes... sometimes..). They were made my direct responsibility which, thanks wholly to the men and women I hired, was the easiest thing I've ever done and the best decision I have ever made. One of the most important things that you learn in the military is how to be part of a team. You also learn how to focus on a common goal and how to help each team member along to achieve that common goal. Without that, regardless of skill set, you could have trouble on your hands. A development team of top notched programmers sounds like a good thing, unless they're all Prima Dona's... Ask any Prima Dona and he/she'll tell you that there way is the best way (they sometimes seem to forget that there are usually many best ways). That being said, I think that what they are really saying is that they want someone who is willing to continue learning. Programming, after all, can be like playing that game whack - a - mole sometimes. Generally, someone who has gone to college tends to be the type of person who likes to learn. However, that's not always the case. Keep in mind that a job posting is akin to profiling in the dark... My intent is not to point out that developers without a military background are any less disciplined. Most good ones are. I am trying to point out that, in the military, if you aren't a team player... you may just end up a bullet stopper... They have the essence of the word team ingrained. Most former military developers are both awesome team players and are into continuing their education. Please notice that I've tried to use words like most and tends; there are no absolutes when you're looking for a good developer... Keeping that in mind... Like I said, it's profiling in the dark and hopefully you get what you want and not necessarily what you asked for ;-) But what do I know, I'm a just singer in a rock band (I won't quit my day job)... -Robb From: Aaron Rouse Sent: Tue 8/28/2007 7:21 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC Was not meant as an insult. I have two good friends who joined the armed forces and later after leaving became programmers. One was just a couple credits shy of having a degree upon leaving the military and other had one, both done through the armed forces, I think both associates degrees Both might have been Navy but I think one was Navy and the other Air Force. I have always been told that those two branches work out better for getting a more technical education but have no proof to that. My grandfather who was rather high ranking in the Army before leaving it after WWII always referred to Army people as bullet stoppers. On 8/28/07, Steve Blades [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My last comment is to Aaron, who maybe didn't realize (or care) that others were watching. A great deal of my 'start' in programming began with the 9+ years I spent in the US Army. I would hire one good veteran, with little formal education, over a dozen snot nosed grads with no discipline. And I would have a far more productive team from doing so, in my experience. You might not have meant to come off insulting, but you insulted me. Steve Cutter Blades Adobe Certified Professional Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Developer http://blog.cutterscrossing.com The best way to predict the future is to help create it Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:35:21 -0500 Join the military, just try not to join a branch that will make ya a bullet stopper On 8/27/07, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still, I think it is an expensive way to gain a focus. Surely there must be more cost effective ways? ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3446 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
This is certainly going OT from the original subject of the thread, but what the heck - if this isn't the place for it I don't know what is. True confession time: I wish I'd taken time off between HS and college. Exposure to the real world - and the undesirability of making a living digging ditches or pitching fries/chips - would have given me a lot more motivation to get all I could out of college, and most likely would have given me the impetus to get out of the ruts I ran in. Luckily due to my family situation, college was free so I didn't waste a bunch of my parents' money, but it took a couple more years after college and what turned out to be 5 more years of education to get some idea of what the heck I wanted to do when I grew up, then achieve it. While the military isn't right for everyone, I know its discipline and emphasis on teamwork would have done me good (assuming of course that I didn't get shot or blown up in the process). So my question is, what experience(s) did you find most valuable in helping you identify what you wanted to do, then to attain it? - Steve ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finderproductID=1522loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3447 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
CF-Jobs is for job postings. CF-Jobs-Talk is for talking about how recruiters tend not to follow the directions on Webpages telling them where to post jobs. Also, the Degrees needed... Yeah.. Good luck with that. :) ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3407 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
What's wrong with asking for a minimum of a bachelors in a technical field? I thought that was a pretty common requirement... On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CF-Jobs is for job postings. CF-Jobs-Talk is for talking about how recruiters tend not to follow the directions on Webpages telling them where to post jobs. Also, the Degrees needed... Yeah.. Good luck with that. :) ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3408 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Most jobs I have applied for required a 4 degree and some did prefer a masters. Seems to be happening more and more these days. Matter of fact the sole reason I have been doing contract work for 6+ years for the same company is because they require a 4 year degree and I am a year or two away from having that. On 8/27/07, Crow T. Robot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's wrong with asking for a minimum of a bachelors in a technical field? I thought that was a pretty common requirement... On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CF-Jobs is for job postings. CF-Jobs-Talk is for talking about how recruiters tend not to follow the directions on Webpages telling them where to post jobs. Also, the Degrees needed... Yeah.. Good luck with that. :) ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3409 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Wow... if you have been contracting with them for 6 years only because you did not have your degree. Not cool. I would look into that On 8/27/07, Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most jobs I have applied for required a 4 degree and some did prefer a masters. Seems to be happening more and more these days. Matter of fact the sole reason I have been doing contract work for 6+ years for the same company is because they require a 4 year degree and I am a year or two away from having that. On 8/27/07, Crow T. Robot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's wrong with asking for a minimum of a bachelors in a technical field? I thought that was a pretty common requirement... On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CF-Jobs is for job postings. CF-Jobs-Talk is for talking about how recruiters tend not to follow the directions on Webpages telling them where to post jobs. Also, the Degrees needed... Yeah.. Good luck with that. :) ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the What's New PDF now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3411 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Most big companies pay people based upon their education level combined with other factors. So if you lack pieces of what is required then your pay grade goes down. I would make a significant amount less if I took a full time job without a 4 year degree(I have a 2 year one, but that is worthless). Actually what is really messed up is since I am not getting a degree that has engineer in the name of it, I will get offered less money for a full time job even if I had a 4 year degree. I have no intentions of working full time for them anyway, just using it as a pay check until I finish this degree and will then move on. On 8/27/07, sherri sonnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow... if you have been contracting with them for 6 years only because you did not have your degree. Not cool. I would look into that On 8/27/07, Aaron Rouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most jobs I have applied for required a 4 degree and some did prefer a masters. Seems to be happening more and more these days. Matter of fact the sole reason I have been doing contract work for 6+ years for the same company is because they require a 4 year degree and I am a year or two away from having that. On 8/27/07, Crow T. Robot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What's wrong with asking for a minimum of a bachelors in a technical field? I thought that was a pretty common requirement... On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CF-Jobs is for job postings. CF-Jobs-Talk is for talking about how recruiters tend not to follow the directions on Webpages telling them where to post jobs. Also, the Degrees needed... Yeah.. Good luck with that. :) ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3412 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
It may not be specifically applicable to the job in terms of skills/knowledge directly relating to what you are going to be doing, but if it is, they will usually say degree in related field. Often what I've seen is 4-year degree in applicable field, or equivalent experience. For some, having a formal education that involves programming methodologies is viewed as having a good foundation in theory that will help. Perhaps some also consider the mere fact of completing a 4-year degree an example of determination, the ability to stick with something for an extended period, yatta yatta. I think most of us would agree that people can be extremely successful without a degree, at least in some environments. These days, though, a very large percentage of the public gets such degrees, and so I don't think it's necessarily a huge thing to ask. Even for those who never got a degree initially because perhaps they were too busy becoming successful already, many of these people go back and get a degree by taking classes at night or on the weekend. Yes, it's an added burden at that point, but it also shows that you are willing to devote extra time to show people you can commit to this type of certification, whether that certification will actually make you better at your job or not... Levi Levi Wallach Blog: twelveblackcodemonkeys.com http://twelveblackcodemonkeys.blog-city.com/ DVD Review Site: dvdmon.com http://www.dvdmon.com/ Pictures at: http://wallachexpressions.smugmug.com/Levi http://wallachexpressions.smugmug.com/Levi From: Phillip M. Vector [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 8/27/07 11:50 AM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC Well, I haven't seen it much, but then again, I don't have one, so perhaps I just subconsciously passed them over. :) IMHO, asking for a degree for a programmer is not worth anything. If you are 30 or older, what they were teaching in school when you were 20 isn't what is in use now. I mean, When was the last time you programed an app in fortran? I mean, the only thing your degree shows at that point is that you had rich parents who paid for your college, you worked your way through college (and therefore, probably scraped by) or you took out a student loan (and are probably now in debt from it). I realize a college degree is important in some fields. Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, etc. Not a fast changing field like computer programing. But that's just me. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3413 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
I forgot to mention this factor. Here in the DC area, lots of work is contracting for the federal government and you get to charge the government different rates based both on experience as well as education. So having a BA, BS, MA, or MS will all get you slightly different rates in addition to the number of years you've been working as a programmer... Levi Levi Wallach Blog: twelveblackcodemonkeys.com http://twelveblackcodemonkeys.blog-city.com/ DVD Review Site: dvdmon.com http://www.dvdmon.com/ Pictures at: http://wallachexpressions.smugmug.com/Levi http://wallachexpressions.smugmug.com/Levi From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon 8/27/07 12:00 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC Most big companies pay people based upon their education level combined with other factors. So if you lack pieces of what is required then your pay grade goes down. I would make a significant amount less if I took a full time job without a 4 year degree(I have a 2 year one, but that is worthless). Actually what is really messed up is since I am not getting a degree that has engineer in the name of it, I will get offered less money for a full time job even if I had a 4 year degree. I have no intentions of working full time for them anyway, just using it as a pay check until I finish this degree and will then move on. ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3415 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Crow T. Robot wrote: What's wrong with asking for a minimum of a bachelors in a technical field? I thought that was a pretty common requirement... Well, I haven't seen it much, but then again, I don't have one, so perhaps I just subconsciously passed them over. :) IMHO, asking for a degree for a programmer is not worth anything. If you are 30 or older, what they were teaching in school when you were 20 isn't what is in use now. I mean, When was the last time you programed an app in fortran? I mean, the only thing your degree shows at that point is that you had rich parents who paid for your college, you worked your way through college (and therefore, probably scraped by) or you took out a student loan (and are probably now in debt from it). I realize a college degree is important in some fields. Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists, etc. Not a fast changing field like computer programing. that's silly. A college degree contains much more than what you are narrowly shoe-boxing it to be. For one, you learn several other subjects. These give you opportunities to view how others solve problems in various other corners of life social, technical, artistic, etc. Further more these studies teach you the the basic vocabulary these areas use to communicate. Now to address the specific computer classes you might take, yes the fast changing world of computers yields new languages, but that's just syntax. What you really learn, or should be learning, is semantics, eh? It doesn't matter if its Fortran or C, a loop is a loop and that is not changing. Speaking of loops, do you commonly use O(n^2) approaches? AKA 'Big OH' notation, this is the kind of topic covered in CS programs that exposes you to the performance of algorithms, independent of language of course. That said, you can certainly learn all these things OTJ or as a hobby, but I wouldn't just wave aside this knowledge. Heck, a few world famous Mathematicians were actually hobbyists, Fermat for example. DK But that's just me. ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the What's New PDF now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3416 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Douglas Knudsen wrote: That said, you can certainly learn all these things OTJ or as a hobby, but I wouldn't just wave aside this knowledge. Heck, a few world famous Mathematicians were actually hobbyists, Fermat for example. I am sorry for not being more clear on what I was thinking. I didn't mean that the degree is worthless (apparently, some jobs do still require it). What I mean is that people who hire saying you have to have a degree and doesn't put down or relevant experience is not an employer who I'd like to work for. A college degree contains much more than what you are narrowly shoe-boxing it to be. True. However, experience in the field can gain you all the skills you gain at college. I dare say, perhaps more as you are no longer learning about things by books and lectures, but actually doing things hands on in a production environment. ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3419 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
;-0 My only point was that I was surprised that you were limited by a company you'd worked for for 6+ years. I would think that after a few years, they would want to make the investment in you as an employee. Generally, companies want the degree but also want the experience. After 6 years, they know what your experience/skill set contains. Then again, I may have misunderstood the poster. Prehaps he/she would prefer to remain contract. On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good for you. That isn't my point though. :) My point is, couldn't you have learned those things without taking the class? Rather, could someone else have learned those concepts outside a classroom? Look folks, I'm sorry I started a major upset on the list. My point comes down to a simple statement. No job should put college experience above work experience. Sorry if you don't agree. :) Aaron Rouse wrote: I currently take night and weekend classes for a computer based degree and most of the classes I have taken did not deal a whole lot with computers. I have learned a lot though that I have been able to apply to my daily work. On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aaron Rouse wrote: Most big companies pay people based upon their education level combined with other factors. and those companies I wouldn't want to work for if they put skill above having a piece of paper saying you learned about computers 16 years ago. :) ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3422 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Anything can be learned, but on the job I have not learned any of the things I was thinking about in my prior email. I have been doing this specific work for around a decade now and I work with people who have been doing it a good bit longer than that, those people IMHO have not learned anywhere near what they could have with a formal education. I would even go so far as saying what they learned via work experience is often times wrong and inefficient. On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good for you. That isn't my point though. :) My point is, couldn't you have learned those things without taking the class? Rather, could someone else have learned those concepts outside a classroom? Look folks, I'm sorry I started a major upset on the list. My point comes down to a simple statement. No job should put college experience above work experience. Sorry if you don't agree. :) Aaron Rouse wrote: I currently take night and weekend classes for a computer based degree and most of the classes I have taken did not deal a whole lot with computers. I have learned a lot though that I have been able to apply to my daily work. On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aaron Rouse wrote: Most big companies pay people based upon their education level combined with other factors. and those companies I wouldn't want to work for if they put skill above having a piece of paper saying you learned about computers 16 years ago. :) ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3423 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
I would have thought the same but experience has taught me otherwise. Looking around some I have learned this is not the only big company with some similar HR rules. I have had HR tell me two times in the past 2-3 years when I was recommended for full time jobs that after looking into it the pay would be too low to bother offering me due to no college degree. I often wonder what too low is. On 8/27/07, sherri sonnier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ;-0 My only point was that I was surprised that you were limited by a company you'd worked for for 6+ years. I would think that after a few years, they would want to make the investment in you as an employee. Generally, companies want the degree but also want the experience. After 6 years, they know what your experience/skill set contains. Then again, I may have misunderstood the poster. Prehaps he/she would prefer to remain contract. On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good for you. That isn't my point though. :) My point is, couldn't you have learned those things without taking the class? Rather, could someone else have learned those concepts outside a classroom? Look folks, I'm sorry I started a major upset on the list. My point comes down to a simple statement. No job should put college experience above work experience. Sorry if you don't agree. :) Aaron Rouse wrote: I currently take night and weekend classes for a computer based degree and most of the classes I have taken did not deal a whole lot with computers. I have learned a lot though that I have been able to apply to my daily work. On 8/27/07, Phillip M. Vector [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aaron Rouse wrote: Most big companies pay people based upon their education level combined with other factors. and those companies I wouldn't want to work for if they put skill above having a piece of paper saying you learned about computers 16 years ago. :) ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finderproductID=1522loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3424 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
RE: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Just a note from a graduate with a degree not at all associated with computers and yet, I am in the computer industry. College degrees should include more than courses in computer science. I have taken courses in computer science recently. I don't remember the last time I did bubble sorts in the programs I use currently. But there is value in understanding the basics. But I also had English courses,(which are badly needed when I look at some of the English used on these forums), humanities courses, art appreciation courses, history courses (which seem to be extremely badly needed since we need to understand what has happened in the past Iraq vs. Viet Nam) and other classes not related to computers or my graduate major. If you want to go through life only able to discuss what you saw during NASCAR on tv yesterday, and what you know in computing, then yes, you don't need a degree. But I hope your life could be fuller than that. BA '65 -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:22 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC I think you're missing the point. A degree shows commitment. It shows your ability to start something and follow it through to the end. Sometimes that is what many employers are looking for. ...and by using this weak cliche arguement shows that those employers that do actually think that partying your arse off for 4 years shows anything but commitment to the shrine of beer and nachos gets them the employees they deserve!! Pick another litmus testI mean come onI'm married...surely that shows commitment ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3427 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
In today's environment, someone who went through college in 4 years would strike me as extremely committed and driven. Most people I went to school with were in for longer than that, even though the degree was officially a 4 year degree. That said, I don't think the degree argument is weak, but it I'll agree with cliche. Marriage is a different kind of commitment than the kind my business makes. I want to see people who can make a decision, set a goal, and make steps to accomplish that goal in a given set of time. ( These are the type of consulting projects I like ). Marriage isn't usually about setting goals and defining an end point. It just keeps going and going. ( These are the type of consulting projects I don't like ). Bryan Stevenson wrote: I think you're missing the point. A degree shows commitment. It shows your ability to start something and follow it through to the end. Sometimes that is what many employers are looking for. ..and by using this weak cliche arguement shows that those employers that do actually think that partying your arse off for 4 years shows anything but commitment to the shrine of beer and nachos gets them the employees they deserve!! Pick another litmus testI mean come onI'm married...surely that shows commitment ;-) -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3429 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Something else that happens is that HR people who expect to get a lot of applications for a given job will include the educational requirement just to cut down on applicants, or as an easy means to rule applicants out without reading more than the education section of their resume. While this might eliminate people who would be excellent employees, it's arguably a valid reason to include the requirement in some circumstances. The problem is, then other HR people see such requirements and assume they have to do the same thing - chances are, the job in question here a) won't have an unmanageable number of applicants and b) doesn't really require higher education for the applicant to be successful. LOL...I bet ya can guess what I think of most HR folks ;-) Sure seems quite insane to artificially weed out qualified or possibly perfect folks for a job just because it's harder to sift through the resumes. Why don't they just weed out all left-handed applicantsor maybe those that take 3 sugars in their coffeeyeah...that makes sense??? Seems like it might be better to: a) know what skills are actually required to do the job b) ask for those SPECIFIC skills instead of casting a wide net and then limiting by education Sure glad I'm the boss around here!! Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3430 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
I agree, Gary. Just in case anybody understood my previous post, I'm definitely not saying degrees are useless. I have an MS in Computer Information Systems myself, and a BA in Psych Music from a liberal (in the scholastic sense) university. I'm just suggesting that degree requirements are sometimes used incorrectly by the people doing the hiring. And lest any argumentational stone be unturned, I'll point out that you can still be well-educated and informed without a post-secondary degree, or even a high school diploma - in the Internet age it's all about the person and one's desire and ability to learn, not necessarily time spent in a classroom or the letters after one's name. So I'm coming down on the side of ignoring the educational requirement of the original job posting if you want to apply for it. On 8/27/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a note from a graduate with a degree not at all associated with computers and yet, I am in the computer industry. College degrees should include more than courses in computer science. I have taken courses in computer science recently. I don't remember the last time I did bubble sorts in the programs I use currently. But there is value in understanding the basics. But I also had English courses,(which are badly needed when I look at some of the English used on these forums), humanities courses, art appreciation courses, history courses (which seem to be extremely badly needed since we need to understand what has happened in the past Iraq vs. Viet Nam) and other classes not related to computers or my graduate major. If you want to go through life only able to discuss what you saw during NASCAR on tv yesterday, and what you know in computing, then yes, you don't need a degree. But I hope your life could be fuller than that. BA '65 -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 1:22 PM To: CF-Jobs-Talk Subject: Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC I think you're missing the point. A degree shows commitment. It shows your ability to start something and follow it through to the end. Sometimes that is what many employers are looking for. ...and by using this weak cliche arguement shows that those employers that do actually think that partying your arse off for 4 years shows anything but commitment to the shrine of beer and nachos gets them the employees they deserve!! Pick another litmus testI mean come onI'm married...surely that shows commitment ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3431 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
If you want to go through life only able to discuss what you saw during NASCAR on tv yesterday, and what you know in computing, then yes, you don't need a degree. But I hope your life could be fuller than that. BA '65 Alife has now been revealedif you didn't go to school you couldn't possibly know anything beyond fast cars and TV trivia. Are flipping kidding me!!! I have a B. Comm and I can tell you I sure have learned far more outside the classroom than I ever did in it. Experience mattersand the broader the better. Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3432 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
In today's environment, someone who went through college in 4 years would strike me as extremely committed and driven. Most people I went to school with were in for longer than that, even though the degree was officially a 4 year degree. That said, I don't think the degree argument is weak, but it I'll agree with cliche. Not to try and heat things up, but is this perhaps a difference in philosophy between the US and Canada? I grew up knewing I was going to University (no not some silver spoon in mouth rich kid.just the way it was). So to say I made a decision and commitment and then followed through is a load of BS to me. I went because I always knew I would...plain and simple. Now given kids todayit would amaze me if they could focus on anything for more than 15 secondsso perhaps your view is becoming more true over time. I will however continue to see someone that did something major (and non-standard) other than getting a degree as someone who sees a goal and goes for it. Going to school for a degree just means jumping through hoops and paying way too much for it to me. There are lots of folks that come out the other end without having really learned anythingbut that's the crappy system for letting them IMHO Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finderproductID=1522loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3433 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
And lest any argumentational stone be unturned, I'll point out that you can still be well-educated and informed without a post-secondary degree, or even a high school diploma - in the Internet age it's all about the person and one's desire and ability to learn, not necessarily time spent in a classroom or the letters after one's name. Bang on Steve!! It's also important to know that people learn differently. I for one would rather slit my wrists than sit through another lecture. I have to want/need to learn the subject...and then I will find the info I need. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3434 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Bryan Stevenson wrote: In today's environment, someone who went through college in 4 years would strike me as extremely committed and driven. Most people I went to school with were in for longer than that, even though the degree was officially a 4 year degree. That said, I don't think the degree argument is weak, but it I'll agree with cliche. Not to try and heat things up, but is this perhaps a difference in philosophy between the US and Canada? I couldn't even begin to guess. My business coach is Canadian; I'm American; but one person is hardly a cultural reference. I will however continue to see someone that did something major (and non-standard) other than getting a degree as someone who sees a goal and goes for it. I agree that college is not the only way. Going to school for a degree just means jumping through hoops and paying way too much for it to me. I believe a lot of people go to college w/o a focus, and that There are lots of folks that come out the other end without having really learned anythingbut that's the crappy system for letting them IMHO Agreed. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3435 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Jeffry Houser wrote: Bryan Stevenson wrote: Going to school for a degree just means jumping through hoops and paying way too much for it to me. I believe a lot of people go to college w/o a focus, and that I spaced. Going to college w/o a focus seems like a waste of time / energy / money. I wouldn't recommend it. But, if you have agood idea of why you're going, go for it. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3436 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
I spaced. Going to college w/o a focus seems like a waste of time / energy / money. I wouldn't recommend it. But, if you have agood idea of why you're going, go for it. Yepand it's not like I didin't pick a focus (business), but even that I knew before junior high. I wentI had a focus, but it was NOT a goal of mine to go. It was simply what most people in my city (and group of friends) knew would happen. Pretty much the same as going to public school, but we had to pay for it ;-) For me it was a complete waste of time and money. Heck it ended up taking 9 years to complete a 4 year degree because I started a business part way through. Believe it or not, that caused all kinds of trouble for a BUSINESS student!! Another reason I don't think highly of post-secondary institutions ;-) As I said to someone off list Education is powerexperience ins the control Any potential employer that doesn't see that isn't doing a very good job and will be stuck in a never ending cycle of bad hires or will spend far too much time training them so they have some kind of experience. Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com Notice: This message, including any attachments, is confidential and may contain information that is privileged or exempt from disclosure. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed unless expressly authorized otherwise by the sender. If you are not an authorized recipient, please notify the sender immediately and permanently destroy all copies of this message and attachments. ~| ColdFusion 8 - Build next generation apps today, with easy PDF and Ajax features - download now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3437 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
A lot of kids coming out of high school rarely have a real idea of what they want. When I did undergrad advising, it was suggested to me that the students get as broad of a coverage in their first and second years (freshman and junior to Americans). While officially the reason was the University's general requirements for a degree, more often it was that students did not know what they really wanted. By giving them a very broad exposure to other departments and courses, they have a much better idea of what they want to do for their major after their second year. On 8/27/07, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeffry Houser wrote: Bryan Stevenson wrote: Going to school for a degree just means jumping through hoops and paying way too much for it to me. I believe a lot of people go to college w/o a focus, and that I spaced. Going to college w/o a focus seems like a waste of time / energy / money. I wouldn't recommend it. But, if you have agood idea of why you're going, go for it. -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the What's New PDF now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3438 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
On 8/27/07, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeffry Houser wrote: Bryan Stevenson wrote: Going to school for a degree just means jumping through hoops and paying way too much for it to me. I believe a lot of people go to college w/o a focus, and that I spaced. Going to college w/o a focus seems like a waste of time / energy / money. I wouldn't recommend it. But, if you have agood idea of why you're going, go for it. I'd say go to gain focus. Yes, it costs some money, but sure is cheaper then wasting years in dead-end jobs trying to find something you like. In one year you can be exposed to 1/2 dozen disciplines and get a idea of just what goes on there. You really need enough discipline to hang in there those first two years, though eh? Actually, if I may Jeff, I will reword your comment to be 'Going to college without some focus' is a waste. You can figure out A focus once there. Thus I should have opened with I'd say go to gain A focus. I have only one regret in life myself, that's dropping out of college only to return later because I lacked this focus, or discipline if you will. When I returned as one of those older students, I was CONSIDERABLY more focused, yet it still took 2 FT school years to get A focus. In fact, try grad school, things are different there for sure. This thought brings me back to Philip's comments. What about Comp Sci professors? Should we just dismantle that field since all you need to do is work in a 'real-life' job to learn what you need? A majority of them got their PhDs over 10 years ago, so not much for them to know? I suppose its a matter of perspective, look outside that web-developer box and you will see things differently perhaps. DK -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3439 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Douglas Knudsen wrote: On 8/27/07, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeffry Houser wrote: Bryan Stevenson wrote: Going to school for a degree just means jumping through hoops and paying way too much for it to me. I believe a lot of people go to college w/o a focus, and that I spaced. Going to college w/o a focus seems like a waste of time / energy / money. I wouldn't recommend it. But, if you have agood idea of why you're going, go for it. I'd say go to gain focus. Yes, it costs some money, but sure is cheaper then wasting years in dead-end jobs trying to find something you like. In one year you can be exposed to 1/2 dozen disciplines and get a idea of just what goes on there. It is an expensive way to gain focus. ;) For me the 'core' courses in the first year were just a rehash of high school. But, then I knew exactly what I wanted. You really need enough discipline to hang in there those first two years, though eh? Actually, if I may Jeff, I will reword your comment to be 'Going to college without some focus' is a waste. You can figure out A focus once there. Thus I should have opened with I'd say go to gain A focus. Still, I think it is an expensive way to gain a focus. Surely there must be more cost effective ways? -- Jeffry Houser, Technical Entrepreneur, Software Developer, Author, Recording Engineer AIM: Reboog711 | Phone: 1-203-379-0773 -- My Company: http://www.dot-com-it.com My Podcast: http://www.theflexshow.com My Blog: http://www.jeffryhouser.com ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3442 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
Re: Sr. ColdFusion Software Engineer Needed - Charlotte, NC
Join the military, just try not to join a branch that will make ya a bullet stopper On 8/27/07, Jeffry Houser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Still, I think it is an expensive way to gain a focus. Surely there must be more cost effective ways? ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:3443 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Jobs-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.11
