RE: usability skills

[Steve Blades]

Actually Bobby, Einstein had enough common sense to realize that some things 
were more important than others. Why concentrate on the small stuff? It's 
unimportant, and a waste of time and space. Let's pull an Einstein here and 
get busy on something important, like finding a job, or telling someone 
about a new position that's available.

Everything in it's place.

Steve "Cutter" Blades
ColdFusion Application Developer




>From: "Bobby Hartsfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com
>To: CF-Jobs-Talk 
>Subject: RE: usability skills
>Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:32:32 -0500
>
>I'm not the one quoting the most inappropriate people possible. A quote 
>from
>Einstein about common sense is a pretty ignorant choice. You may as well
>have quoted Rain Man.
>
>If I were to say I was an atheist would you have replied with quotes from
>the bible? If I had said I was a Christian, would you have replied with
>quotes from the satanic bible?
>
>I brought up common sense and you chose the 'smartest' person you could
>think of to quote... a deep thinking, egg head, book work with no common
>sense what-so-ever. Sure, Einstein was a genius, but I wouldn't want him
>telling me how other people would like a user interface to work because he
>thought nothing like 'other people'
>
>But, if the last word is going to make you feel better about yourself, just
>go ahead and reply to this one with another pointless quote and I'll duck
>out. If you want to get back to psychology > usability... do so.
>
>..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
>Bobby Hartsfield
>http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:59 PM
>To: CF-Jobs-Talk
>Subject: Re: usability skills
>
>I suggest you look up some of the stuff on human factors and its close
>links to information processing. It predates even computers. As I said
>you do not appear to know what you're talking about.
>
>On 3/19/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > at best it can tell you that something
> > > has happened never the whys and the wherefores
> >
> > And psychology can? If it's a programmatic problem, that would be the
> > programmer's department, if it's a design flaw, that would be the
>designers
> > area. If either flips out and kill everyone in their office over the 
>flaw,
> > then you can call in the psychologists.
> >
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
>
>--
>Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment;
>and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your
>opinion.
>
>Edmond Burke
>
>
>
>

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RE: usability skills

[Michael T. Tangorre]

For the love of god, SHUT UP! WHO CARES?

You two sound like little kids arguing over the toughest GI Joe..  guess
what, they are both plastic and harmless. Move on to something else.






> -Original Message-
> From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 11:33 PM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: RE: usability skills
> 
> I'm not the one quoting the most inappropriate people 
> possible. A quote from Einstein about common sense is a 
> pretty ignorant choice. You may as well have quoted Rain Man. 
> 
> If I were to say I was an atheist would you have replied with 
> quotes from the bible? If I had said I was a Christian, would 
> you have replied with quotes from the satanic bible?
> 
> I brought up common sense and you chose the 'smartest' person 
> you could think of to quote... a deep thinking, egg head, 
> book work with no common sense what-so-ever. Sure, Einstein 
> was a genius, but I wouldn't want him telling me how other 
> people would like a user interface to work because he thought 
> nothing like 'other people'
> 
> But, if the last word is going to make you feel better about 
> yourself, just go ahead and reply to this one with another 
> pointless quote and I'll duck out. If you want to get back to 
> psychology > usability... do so.
> 
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:59 PM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
> 
> I suggest you look up some of the stuff on human factors and 
> its close links to information processing. It predates even 
> computers. As I said you do not appear to know what you're 
> talking about.
> 
> On 3/19/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > at best it can tell you that something has happened never 
> the whys 
> > > and the wherefores
> >
> > And psychology can? If it's a programmatic problem, that 
> would be the 
> > programmer's department, if it's a design flaw, that would be the
> designers
> > area. If either flips out and kill everyone in their office 
> over the 
> > flaw, then you can call in the psychologists.
> >
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> 
> --
> Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his 
> judgment; and he betrays instead of serving you if he 
> sacrifices it to your opinion.
> 
> Edmond Burke
> 
> 
> 
> 

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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

I'm not the one quoting the most inappropriate people possible. A quote from
Einstein about common sense is a pretty ignorant choice. You may as well
have quoted Rain Man. 

If I were to say I was an atheist would you have replied with quotes from
the bible? If I had said I was a Christian, would you have replied with
quotes from the satanic bible?

I brought up common sense and you chose the 'smartest' person you could
think of to quote... a deep thinking, egg head, book work with no common
sense what-so-ever. Sure, Einstein was a genius, but I wouldn't want him
telling me how other people would like a user interface to work because he
thought nothing like 'other people'

But, if the last word is going to make you feel better about yourself, just
go ahead and reply to this one with another pointless quote and I'll duck
out. If you want to get back to psychology > usability... do so.

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:59 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

I suggest you look up some of the stuff on human factors and its close
links to information processing. It predates even computers. As I said
you do not appear to know what you're talking about.

On 3/19/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > at best it can tell you that something
> > has happened never the whys and the wherefores
>
> And psychology can? If it's a programmatic problem, that would be the
> programmer's department, if it's a design flaw, that would be the
designers
> area. If either flips out and kill everyone in their office over the flaw,
> then you can call in the psychologists.
>
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>

--
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment;
and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your
opinion.

Edmond Burke



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Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

I suggest you look up some of the stuff on human factors and its close
links to information processing. It predates even computers. As I said
you do not appear to know what you're talking about.

On 3/19/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > at best it can tell you that something
> > has happened never the whys and the wherefores
>
> And psychology can? If it's a programmatic problem, that would be the
> programmer's department, if it's a design flaw, that would be the designers
> area. If either flips out and kill everyone in their office over the flaw,
> then you can call in the psychologists.
>
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>

--
Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment;
and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your
opinion.

Edmond Burke

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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

> at best it can tell you that something 
> has happened never the whys and the wherefores

And psychology can? If it's a programmatic problem, that would be the
programmer's department, if it's a design flaw, that would be the designers
area. If either flips out and kill everyone in their office over the flaw,
then you can call in the psychologists.


..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 12:06 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

Just as a followup to this discussion, I did a scholar.google search
on cognitive psychology and usability, and came up with 3390 hits that
these two topics. Several of the cites on the first page of the search
specificially mention how the methods and techniques used in cognitive
psychology have direct application to usability, and how this field
provides the theoretical and methodological framework for usability
research and evaluation e.g.,  Mayhew, 1999 and Caroll (1997 in the
Annual Review of Psychology).

http://www.antiwrap.com/?948

As for what common sense tells you about interface design, at best it
can tell you that something has happened never the whys and the
wherefores. As Einstein said "Common sense is the collection of
prejudices acquired by age eighteen." Moreover what frqwuenly passes
has common sense in this field has its roots in the research done in
the cognitive psychology labs in the 1980's and 1990's. What's very
interesting is that the research that's going on now is going to have
a major impact on usability in the next few years.

larry


On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've had my fair share of Psyche classes... believe me :) When you take
out
> the details of the brain and what it's made of, there's nothing left that
> common sense wouldn't tell you.
>
> Common sense would also tell me that if all the usability research methods
> people have used (or been forced to used) through their careers as
> developers were worth anything, people wouldn't be screaming for better
> solutions. Who did you say came up with those again?
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:32 PM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> Nice to have an opinion, but do you have any valid scientific data to
> back that up?
>
> Where do you think that the research methods that usability depends on
> came come from. Or what field of study developed the eyetracking
> methods that many usability studies use? Look at what departments of
> study that house undergraduate and graduate courses in usability. I'll
> give you a hint, its psychology.
>
> Its painfully obvious that you know little or nothing about
> experimental or cognitive psychology. Nor from your arrogant tirade do
> you show any real knowledge of the research methods involved in this
> field of study.
>
> On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at
> informing
> > someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more
'user
> > friendly'.
> >
> > Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like
saying
> > breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college
> and
> > majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
> > knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the
> way
> > people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS
to
> > assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things
to
> > them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
> >
> > I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
> > suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why?
Because
> > they surf the web one handed
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >
> > Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
> > area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
> > stuff came from in the first place?
> >

Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

Just as a followup to this discussion, I did a scholar.google search
on cognitive psychology and usability, and came up with 3390 hits that
these two topics. Several of the cites on the first page of the search
specificially mention how the methods and techniques used in cognitive
psychology have direct application to usability, and how this field
provides the theoretical and methodological framework for usability
research and evaluation e.g.,  Mayhew, 1999 and Caroll (1997 in the
Annual Review of Psychology).

http://www.antiwrap.com/?948

As for what common sense tells you about interface design, at best it
can tell you that something has happened never the whys and the
wherefores. As Einstein said "Common sense is the collection of
prejudices acquired by age eighteen." Moreover what frqwuenly passes
has common sense in this field has its roots in the research done in
the cognitive psychology labs in the 1980's and 1990's. What's very
interesting is that the research that's going on now is going to have
a major impact on usability in the next few years.

larry


On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've had my fair share of Psyche classes... believe me :) When you take out
> the details of the brain and what it's made of, there's nothing left that
> common sense wouldn't tell you.
>
> Common sense would also tell me that if all the usability research methods
> people have used (or been forced to used) through their careers as
> developers were worth anything, people wouldn't be screaming for better
> solutions. Who did you say came up with those again?
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:32 PM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> Nice to have an opinion, but do you have any valid scientific data to
> back that up?
>
> Where do you think that the research methods that usability depends on
> came come from. Or what field of study developed the eyetracking
> methods that many usability studies use? Look at what departments of
> study that house undergraduate and graduate courses in usability. I'll
> give you a hint, its psychology.
>
> Its painfully obvious that you know little or nothing about
> experimental or cognitive psychology. Nor from your arrogant tirade do
> you show any real knowledge of the research methods involved in this
> field of study.
>
> On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at
> informing
> > someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
> > friendly'.
> >
> > Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
> > breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college
> and
> > majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
> > knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the
> way
> > people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
> > assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
> > them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
> >
> > I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
> > suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
> > they surf the web one handed
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >
> > Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
> > area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
> > stuff came from in the first place?
> >
> > On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 'bout as much as psych
> > >
> > > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > > Bobby Hartsfield
> > > http://acoderslife.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: usability skills
> > >
> > > I'm happy for you,

Re: usability skills (slightly OT)

[Jeffry Houser]

   Well put.

At 05:38 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:
>Slightly OT...
>
>This talk about degree-holders and non-degree holders makes me think
>of a person I worked with at a university resently.
>
>I was in a small, tight group in the administrative arm of the
>university system. We were responsible for any system-wide sites and
>for any campus-based sites that couldn't be hosted by the individual
>campus (or didn't want to).
>
>We had just made the decision to go to CF from Perl (back in 2001)
>and after a very brief training started coding new pages at a furious pace.
>
>One of the trainees had dropped out of the training because she
>couldn't keep up. It turns out that she had several degrees in
>programming theory and other mathematical and theoretical studies.
>Had even written a book. Very impressive on paper, but she couldn't
>program her way out of a paper bag.
>
>A few days after we had finished the core of our first CF site she
>stepped into the fracas and suggested that we should be learning java instead.
>
>I stopped and looked at her and came very close to asking her if
>she'd fair any better at learing that language. I mean, if she
>couldn't hack CF... Java?!?  I passed on the barb, and we continued
>working with CF.
>
>
>Advance the film a couple of years and now we've advanced beyond the
>basics and are now building a single, server-based,
>multi-site-hosting CMS to end all CMSes. But one day we're stuck on a
>particular problem. We three programmers are sitting around in our
>swivel chairs tossing paper balls at each other trying to figure it out.
>
>In walks the PhD non-programmer and makes a suggestion. We all put
>our hands up and skoff. She walks up to the wipe board and explains
>the situation and we argue for 20 minutes. When it's all over the
>three of us are staring at each other at how well the suggestion will
>solve the problem, and probably a few others as well.
>
>She wipes her hands and walks out of the room, smiling.
>
>I have to say, up until that point I was wondering (a) how she had
>ever gotten any degrees and (b) what the hell she was doing in our
>group. She couldn't program her way out of a paper bag, but she did
>that theoretical trick on us two more times before I left the university.
>
>Experience is everything, but it gets stale without an occasional theory.
>
>
>Funny thing, too. She was the "Accessability Specialist" in our
>group. A real stickler for fine detail.
>
>Mik
>
>
>
>
>
>Michael Muller
>Admin, MontagueMA.net Website
>Montague, MA 01351
>work (413) 863-0030
>cell (413) 320-5336
>fax (518) 713-1569
>skype: michaelBmuller
>email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.MontagueMA.net
>
>Eschew Obfuscation
>
>
>
>

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Re: usability skills (slightly OT)

[Mik Muller]

Slightly OT...

This talk about degree-holders and non-degree holders makes me think 
of a person I worked with at a university resently.

I was in a small, tight group in the administrative arm of the 
university system. We were responsible for any system-wide sites and 
for any campus-based sites that couldn't be hosted by the individual 
campus (or didn't want to).

We had just made the decision to go to CF from Perl (back in 2001) 
and after a very brief training started coding new pages at a furious pace.

One of the trainees had dropped out of the training because she 
couldn't keep up. It turns out that she had several degrees in 
programming theory and other mathematical and theoretical studies. 
Had even written a book. Very impressive on paper, but she couldn't 
program her way out of a paper bag.

A few days after we had finished the core of our first CF site she 
stepped into the fracas and suggested that we should be learning java instead.

I stopped and looked at her and came very close to asking her if 
she'd fair any better at learing that language. I mean, if she 
couldn't hack CF... Java?!?  I passed on the barb, and we continued 
working with CF.


Advance the film a couple of years and now we've advanced beyond the 
basics and are now building a single, server-based, 
multi-site-hosting CMS to end all CMSes. But one day we're stuck on a 
particular problem. We three programmers are sitting around in our 
swivel chairs tossing paper balls at each other trying to figure it out.

In walks the PhD non-programmer and makes a suggestion. We all put 
our hands up and skoff. She walks up to the wipe board and explains 
the situation and we argue for 20 minutes. When it's all over the 
three of us are staring at each other at how well the suggestion will 
solve the problem, and probably a few others as well.

She wipes her hands and walks out of the room, smiling.

I have to say, up until that point I was wondering (a) how she had 
ever gotten any degrees and (b) what the hell she was doing in our 
group. She couldn't program her way out of a paper bag, but she did 
that theoretical trick on us two more times before I left the university.

Experience is everything, but it gets stale without an occasional theory.


Funny thing, too. She was the "Accessability Specialist" in our 
group. A real stickler for fine detail.

Mik





Michael Muller
Admin, MontagueMA.net Website
Montague, MA 01351
work (413) 863-0030
cell (413) 320-5336
fax (518) 713-1569
skype: michaelBmuller
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.MontagueMA.net

Eschew Obfuscation



~|
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Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

Jeff,

One of the best places to start is to pick up Don't Make Me Think : A
Common Sense Approach to Web Usability (2nd Edition) by Steve Krug.
http://www.antiwrap.com/?946  - link to Amazon.

Its about the best starter book I know of. Then once you're
comfortable with that book, you can start with some of Jakob Nielson's
books.

regards,
larry

On 3/17/06, Jeffry Houser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   I'm not sure if I'm responding to flame bait or not.
>
>   Is your brother available for hire?
>
>   I don't know anything about cognitive psychology or web usability (Ask
> any one of my clients; they'll agree with me).
>
>   But, to say that your 8 year old brother has the same skills as someone
> w/ a degree in "x", just doesn't click well in my mind.
>
> At 12:57 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:
> >My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
> >someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
> >friendly'.
> >
> >Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
> >breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
> >majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
> >knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
> >people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
> >assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
> >them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
> >
> >I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
> >suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
> >they surf the web one handed
>
>
>
>
> >..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> >Bobby Hartsfield
> >http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
> >To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> >Subject: Re: usability skills
> >
> >Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
> >area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
> >stuff came from in the first place?
> >
> >On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 'bout as much as psych
> > >
> > > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > > Bobby Hartsfield
> > > http://acoderslife.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: usability skills
> > >
>
> > > I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> > > skills? (curious)
> > >
> > > Judith
> > > - Original Message -
> > > >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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RE: usability skills

[S . Isaac Dealey]

> I've had my fair share of Psyche classes... believe me :)
> When you take out
> the details of the brain and what it's made of, there's
> nothing left that
> common sense wouldn't tell you.

> Common sense would also tell me that if all the usability
> research methods
> people have used (or been forced to used) through their
> careers as
> developers were worth anything, people wouldn't be
> screaming for better
> solutions. Who did you say came up with those again?

The vast majority of software (probably more than 90%) never involves
a usability expert in its design process. A large percentage of the
software projects that do involve a usability expert involve them
after the project is mostly complete, at which point they're not
allowed to make any changes that would result in noticeable
improvements for the user. The process of designing user interfaces in
today's software by and large is done by programmers, most of whom are
rather involved in a very different thought-world than the average
user. For that matter, I've met quite a few programmers who seem to
actively hate users. It's evident not only in the "stupid user" humor
like ID10T errors and PEBKAC but in much more telling ways like "gee
John, I'm surprised you're not more familiar with CSS"... "Well, you
know, CSS is for the user, so I've avoided it." I would venture to say
that most software is designed by people who see no problem with the
user being frustrated and in some cases actually prefer it that way.
That was the whole reason Alan Cooper wrote the Inmates Are Running
the Asylum (although he's less jaded about programmers and more jaded
about the interface than I am, believing that a) programmers genuinely
care about users and b) file systems and search features should be
completely abolished).


s. isaac dealey 434.293.6201
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?

add features without fixtures with
the onTap open source framework

http://www.fusiontap.com
http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm


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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

I've had my fair share of Psyche classes... believe me :) When you take out
the details of the brain and what it's made of, there's nothing left that
common sense wouldn't tell you.

Common sense would also tell me that if all the usability research methods
people have used (or been forced to used) through their careers as
developers were worth anything, people wouldn't be screaming for better
solutions. Who did you say came up with those again?

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 


-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:32 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

Nice to have an opinion, but do you have any valid scientific data to
back that up?

Where do you think that the research methods that usability depends on
came come from. Or what field of study developed the eyetracking
methods that many usability studies use? Look at what departments of
study that house undergraduate and graduate courses in usability. I'll
give you a hint, its psychology.

Its painfully obvious that you know little or nothing about
experimental or cognitive psychology. Nor from your arrogant tirade do
you show any real knowledge of the research methods involved in this
field of study.

On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at
informing
> someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
> friendly'.
>
> Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
> breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college
and
> majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
> knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the
way
> people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
> assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
> them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
>
> I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
> suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
> they surf the web one handed
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
> area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
> stuff came from in the first place?
>
> On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 'bout as much as psych
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >
> > I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> > skills? (curious)
> >
> > Judith
> > - Original Message -
> > >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 



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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

That would depend on what "x" is of course...

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 


-Original Message-
From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:36 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: RE: usability skills

  I'm not sure if I'm responding to flame bait or not.

  Is your brother available for hire?

  I don't know anything about cognitive psychology or web usability (Ask 
any one of my clients; they'll agree with me).

  But, to say that your 8 year old brother has the same skills as someone 
w/ a degree in "x", just doesn't click well in my mind.

At 12:57 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:
>My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
>someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
>friendly'.
>
>Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
>breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
>majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
>knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
>people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
>assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
>them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
>
>I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
>suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
>they surf the web one handed




>..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
>Bobby Hartsfield
>http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
>To: CF-Jobs-Talk
>Subject: Re: usability skills
>
>Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
>area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
>stuff came from in the first place?
>
>On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 'bout as much as psych
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >

> > I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> > skills? (curious)
> >
> > Judith
> > - Original Message -
> > >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



~|
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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

That would depend on what "x" is of course...

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 


-Original Message-
From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:36 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: RE: usability skills

  I'm not sure if I'm responding to flame bait or not.

  Is your brother available for hire?

  I don't know anything about cognitive psychology or web usability (Ask 
any one of my clients; they'll agree with me).

  But, to say that your 8 year old brother has the same skills as someone 
w/ a degree in "x", just doesn't click well in my mind.

At 12:57 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:
>My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
>someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
>friendly'.
>
>Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
>breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
>majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
>knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
>people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
>assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
>them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
>
>I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
>suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
>they surf the web one handed




>..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
>Bobby Hartsfield
>http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
>To: CF-Jobs-Talk
>Subject: Re: usability skills
>
>Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
>area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
>stuff came from in the first place?
>
>On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 'bout as much as psych
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >

> > I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> > skills? (curious)
> >
> > Judith
> > - Original Message -
> > >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



~|
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RE: usability skills

[Louis Mezo]

I tend to agree that some of the knowledge obtained from a degree-program is
seemingly useless. Or, the individual person in question is for some reason
unable to apply the useful knowledge gained adequately in a real-world
situation.

However, having thought about an area of knowledge in detail is still closer
to actual experience acting in that area, than never having thought about it
before. Experience with methods of applying intellectual "experience" to
real-world scenarios is probably what matters most.

It also might help if I could remember to articulate that when I start
looking for the next gig...

Louis Mezo
LogicSynthesis
Tel: 240.498.8951
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.logicsynthesis.com







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RE: usability skills

[Cornillon, Matthieu \(Consultant\)]

>  I find it hard to believe that someone can pick up all the knowledge 
> contained in a degree-program in a few weeks, and perform better than
the 
> degree-carrying folk.

A good point, Jeff.  An arrogant claim on my part.  Sorry about that.
The truth is that if the employer *truly* needs someone with a degree in
Switch-Throwing, then the person with the degree will beat me hands
down, and I'd be a fool to claim that I could catch up in two weeks.
What I should have written is that sometimes the employer does not truly
need someone with such a degree, but since they don't have the technical
knowledge themselves, they just ask for the degree holder, when what
they really need is a generalist like me.  Or so I'd like to think.  :)
A lot of the bitterness here (can you hear the bitterness?) comes from
my experience on teams with degree-holders who had such a limited
ability that they became idiot-savants of a sort, useless in anything
but their two or three specific skills, unable to synthesize solutions
to problems they had never seen before.  That's great if you have enough
work of that one type, but when the team has to handle a wide variety of
problems with everyone pitching in, it ain't so hot.  This leads me to
my response to your next point...


> Some people are like that.  I think it is the person, not whether or
not 
> they have a degree.

Another very good point.  My original message was unfortunately
hypocritical to an extent.  I started by saying "it's the person, not
their particular training group", and then I ended by saying, "degree
folks can't think outside of the box".  In my defense, I didn't say it
quite so starkly, and I certainly did not mean to say that all degree
folks are unable to do this.  

Thanks for the check: my bitterness and ego got the best of me for a
minute.  Again, good points, and I rewind past my ranting to how I
opened:

The bottom line is that no individual from any one group (psychologists,
porn surfers, programmers, plumbers) is necessarily going to be better
than an individual from another group simply because of the group to
which they belong.

Matthieu



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RE: usability skills

[Jeffry Houser]

  I have to jump in here also...

At 01:21 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:

>This sort of thing has driven me a little crazy in computer-related 
>work.  I am a generalist and a tinkerer.  I don't have a degree in 
>computer science or certification in this or that.  When I came to New 
>York several years ago, I would go through these interviews where people 
>would say, "Well, we are looking for someone with a degree in 
>Switch-Throwing, or someone with a degree in Lever-Pulling, or someone 
>with a degree in Knob-Turning.  Do you have any of those degrees?"  Of 
>course I don't, and the interview would end, despite the fact that two 
>weeks into the job, I might very well be able to do all three as well as 
>anyone with any of those degrees.

  I find it hard to believe that someone can pick up all the knowledge 
contained in a degree-program in a few weeks, and perform better than the 
degree-carrying folk.

>In the past, I had worked with tons of people who had these degrees in 
>past jobs, and my experience was that they were not so special.  They 
>might know the model numbers of every switch made, or cool jargon for the 
>action of throwing the switch, but when it came down to it, they could 
>only throw particular switches under the particular circumstances for 
>which they had been trained.  I was often stunned by how rigidly these 
>folks would think, when the answer was (forgive the cliché) just outside 
>the walls of the box.

  Some people are like that.  I think it is the person, not whether or not 
they have a degree.


--
Jeffry Houser, Software Developer, Writer, Songwriter, Recording Engineer
AIM: Reboog711  | Phone: 1-203-379-0773
--
My Company: 
My Books: 
My Recording Studio: 
Connecticut Macromedia User Group: 
Now Blogging at   



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RE: usability skills

[Jeffry Houser]

  I'm not sure if I'm responding to flame bait or not.

  Is your brother available for hire?

  I don't know anything about cognitive psychology or web usability (Ask 
any one of my clients; they'll agree with me).

  But, to say that your 8 year old brother has the same skills as someone 
w/ a degree in "x", just doesn't click well in my mind.

At 12:57 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:
>My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
>someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
>friendly'.
>
>Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
>breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
>majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
>knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
>people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
>assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
>them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
>
>I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
>suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
>they surf the web one handed




>..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
>Bobby Hartsfield
>http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
>To: CF-Jobs-Talk
>Subject: Re: usability skills
>
>Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
>area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
>stuff came from in the first place?
>
>On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 'bout as much as psych
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >

> > I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> > skills? (curious)
> >
> > Judith
> > - Original Message -
> > >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

~|
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Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

Nice to have an opinion, but do you have any valid scientific data to
back that up?

Where do you think that the research methods that usability depends on
came come from. Or what field of study developed the eyetracking
methods that many usability studies use? Look at what departments of
study that house undergraduate and graduate courses in usability. I'll
give you a hint, its psychology.

Its painfully obvious that you know little or nothing about
experimental or cognitive psychology. Nor from your arrogant tirade do
you show any real knowledge of the research methods involved in this
field of study.

On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
> someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
> friendly'.
>
> Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
> breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
> majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
> knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
> people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
> assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
> them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left.
>
> I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
> suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
> they surf the web one handed
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
> area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
> stuff came from in the first place?
>
> On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 'bout as much as psych
> >
> > ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> > Bobby Hartsfield
> > http://acoderslife.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> > To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> > Subject: Re: usability skills
> >
> > I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> > skills? (curious)
> >
> > Judith
> > - Original Message -
> > >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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RE: usability skills

[Cornillon, Matthieu \(Consultant\)]

I think that there are three things here:

1) Talent for seeing problems and their solutions in user interfaces.
2) Experience with designing/fixing user interfaces.
3) Knowledge of theories/abstract concepts related to user interfaces.

Number 1 may be overrated; I think that Number 2 tends to be more important.  
Cognitive psych folks (I majored in this myself) would likely get a boost from 
their education in numbers 2 and 3.  I think that number 3 can (but will not 
necessarily) give you a great boost in handling problems.

Regardless, the bottom line is that no individual from any one group 
(psychologists, porn surfers, programmers, plumbers) is necessarily going to be 
better than an individual from another group simply because of the group to 
which they belong.

This sort of thing has driven me a little crazy in computer-related work.  I am 
a generalist and a tinkerer.  I don't have a degree in computer science or 
certification in this or that.  When I came to New York several years ago, I 
would go through these interviews where people would say, "Well, we are looking 
for someone with a degree in Switch-Throwing, or someone with a degree in 
Lever-Pulling, or someone with a degree in Knob-Turning.  Do you have any of 
those degrees?"  Of course I don't, and the interview would end, despite the 
fact that two weeks into the job, I might very well be able to do all three as 
well as anyone with any of those degrees.  

In the past, I had worked with tons of people who had these degrees in past 
jobs, and my experience was that they were not so special.  They might know the 
model numbers of every switch made, or cool jargon for the action of throwing 
the switch, but when it came down to it, they could only throw particular 
switches under the particular circumstances for which they had been trained.  I 
was often stunned by how rigidly these folks would think, when the answer was 
(forgive the cliché) just outside the walls of the box.

The problem seems especially great because of the relationship between techies 
and the rest of the world: if I am non-technical and interviewing a techie, I 
don't know what to ask in order to really elucidate the person's skills.  So I 
ask if they have a degree in Button-Pressing.

Oops.  That turned into a bit of a rant.  But hey, let's turn it cheery and 
constructive: how do those of us--I am guessing there are a lot more of you out 
there like me--whose greatest skill is general problem-solving and not 
specialization in one particular technical area market ourselves?  I have a 
little consulting thing on the side where I try to market myself as a 
generalist.  I've ended up doing the weirdest combination of tasks, some of 
which I had never done before taking the job, and I have been getting 
word-of-mouth business from people, but it's only word-of-mouth.  Is that the 
answer?  Is this the only way to sell this skill?  Or does this problem-solving 
ability boil down into a nice phrase like "Thingamajig-Operating"?  I'm not 
kidding: does anyone out there know of a name for this?

Thanks,
Matthieu


-Original Message-
From: Bobby Hartsfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 12:57 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: RE: usability skills

My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
friendly'.

Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left. 

I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
they surf the web one handed

...:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 


-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
stuff came from in the first place?

On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 'bout as much as psych
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: R

RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

My 8 year old brother is just as qualified as any psyche major at informing
someone of what should be changed in an application to make it more 'user
friendly'.

Saying cognitive psychology has a lot to do with usability is like saying
breathing is necessary to live. I don't know anyone who went to college and
majored in breathing that came out claiming their degree gave them the
knowledge to change the way everyone else breathes. It's a label on the way
people supposedly 'think' based on past experience and it's complete BS to
assume everyone thinks the same way because their uncle did odd things to
them or they have to move their mouse 5 more pixels to the left. 

I bet there are a ton of porn surfers out there that are WAAAYY better
suited for recommending usability changes than psychologists. Why? Because
they surf the web one handed

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 


-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 10:02 AM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
stuff came from in the first place?

On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 'bout as much as psych
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> skills? (curious)
>
> Judith
> - Original Message -
> >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
>
>
>
>
>
> 



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Re: usability skills

[Bryan Stevenson]

> I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> skills? (curious)
>
> Judith
> - Original Message - 
>>I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night

Judith you must not watch much TVit eludes to a Holiday Inn commercial 
where 
people aren't what they appaear to bebut they were smart enough to sleep at 
a Holiday Innthey must be smart enough to do whatever it is they were doing 
in the commercial (fixing nuclear reactor breeches and the like).

Cheers

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
phone: 250.480.0642
fax: 250.480.1264
cell: 250.920.8830
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.electricedgesystems.com 


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Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

Cognitive Psychology has a lot to do with usabilty , especially my
area, attention and information processing. Where do you think this
stuff came from in the first place?

On 3/17/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 'bout as much as psych
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
> skills? (curious)
>
> Judith
> - Original Message -
> >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

my sympathies. I recommend a good chiropractor and a few shots of
Talikser Scotch. That you help your pain.

On 3/16/06, Bobby Hartsfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
>
> ..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
> Bobby Hartsfield
> http://acoderslife.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:25 PM
> To: CF-Jobs-Talk
> Subject: Re: usability skills
>
> While no flash designer (CF Developer type actually), I do work with
> flash on an occasional basis. I also have a graduate degree in
> Cognitive Psychology.
>
> larry
>
> On 3/16/06, James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Agreed - usability _experts_ are more likely to be Psychology majors
> > than Flash designers.
> >
> > On 3/16/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I just found a job req that demonstrates complete ignorance of the
> > > meaning of "usability".
> > >
> > > Here's a line from their list of desired skills:
> > >
> > > Usability Specialist: HCI, Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, Shockwave
> > >
> >
> > --
> > CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
> > http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

'bout as much as psych

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Judith Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 6:11 AM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy 
skills? (curious)

Judith
- Original Message - 
>I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night





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Re: usability skills

[James Holmes]

*sounds of penny dropping heavily*

On 3/17/06, Steve Blades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You don't watch much TV, do you Judith?
>
> (HIE reference to commercials that intimate 'stay here, sleep well, be
> rested enough to do anything, pay so little and feel so smart that you could
> do anything [even that you have never been trained for]. "Users would never
> use this navigation. It's to clunky and unfriendly. What's that? No, I'm not
> a usability expert. Never went to school for anything, but I did stay...")

--
CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/

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Re: usability skills

[Steve Blades]

You don't watch much TV, do you Judith?

(HIE reference to commercials that intimate 'stay here, sleep well, be 
rested enough to do anything, pay so little and feel so smart that you could 
do anything [even that you have never been trained for]. "Users would never 
use this navigation. It's to clunky and unfriendly. What's that? No, I'm not 
a usability expert. Never went to school for anything, but I did stay...")

Steve "Cutter" Blades
ColdFusion Application Developer




>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Judith Dinowitz)
>Reply-To: cf-jobs-talk@houseoffusion.com
>To: CF-Jobs-Talk 
>Subject: Re: usability skills
>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 03:10:51 -0800
>
>I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy
>skills? (curious)
>
>Judith
>- Original Message -
> >I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
>
>
>
>

~|
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Re: usability skills

[Judith Dinowitz]

I'm happy for you, Bobby. But what does that have to do with usabilitiy 
skills? (curious)

Judith
- Original Message - 
>I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night



~|
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RE: usability skills

[Bobby Hartsfield]

I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night

..:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 

 


-Original Message-
From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 2:25 PM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

While no flash designer (CF Developer type actually), I do work with
flash on an occasional basis. I also have a graduate degree in
Cognitive Psychology.

larry

On 3/16/06, James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Agreed - usability _experts_ are more likely to be Psychology majors
> than Flash designers.
>
> On 3/16/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I just found a job req that demonstrates complete ignorance of the
> > meaning of "usability".
> >
> > Here's a line from their list of desired skills:
> >
> > Usability Specialist: HCI, Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, Shockwave
> >
>
> --
> CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
> http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/
>
> 



~|
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Re: usability skills

[Larry C. Lyons]

While no flash designer (CF Developer type actually), I do work with
flash on an occasional basis. I also have a graduate degree in
Cognitive Psychology.

larry

On 3/16/06, James Holmes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Agreed - usability _experts_ are more likely to be Psychology majors
> than Flash designers.
>
> On 3/16/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I just found a job req that demonstrates complete ignorance of the
> > meaning of "usability".
> >
> > Here's a line from their list of desired skills:
> >
> > Usability Specialist: HCI, Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, Shockwave
> >
>
> --
> CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
> http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/
>
> 

~|
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RE: usability skills

[Christian N. Abad]

We are.  And I am.  :-)

~Christian N. Abad

President - Accessible Computing

http://www.accessiblecomputing.com


-Original Message-
From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2006 9:08 AM
To: CF-Jobs-Talk
Subject: Re: usability skills

Agreed - usability _experts_ are more likely to be Psychology majors
than Flash designers.

On 3/16/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just found a job req that demonstrates complete ignorance of the
> meaning of "usability".
>
> Here's a line from their list of desired skills:
>
> Usability Specialist: HCI, Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, Shockwave
>

--
CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/



~|
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Re: usability skills

[James Holmes]

Agreed - usability _experts_ are more likely to be Psychology majors
than Flash designers.

On 3/16/06, S. Isaac Dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just found a job req that demonstrates complete ignorance of the
> meaning of "usability".
>
> Here's a line from their list of desired skills:
>
> Usability Specialist: HCI, Photoshop, Fireworks, Flash, Shockwave
>

--
CFAJAX docs and other useful articles:
http://jr-holmes.coldfusionjournal.com/

~|
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