Improving an application

[Peter Tanswell]

Hi there

I have completed the development of an application for a local gym.  Basically 
it is an application to manage the hiring of exercise bikes.  Each of the bikes 
- up to 50 of them can be hired out for periods of time - usually 1 hour at a 
time.

Users of the system are able to enter details of the person hiring the bikes 
etc.  Also they will select the bike and also the time that the hire starts and 
then the finish time is automatically calculated.

What the users would like to make the system more user friendly is for the 
system to somehow notify them that the hire is coming to an end.  At this 
stage, I display on the main screen the current hires in a table.  It shows 
details of the bike, the hirer, the time the hire started.  

I'm really looking for ideas on how to implement this extra functionality.  

My thoughts - can I set up the page to perform an automatic refresh say every 
minute.  I just need some way to display clearly that a hire is almost complete.

Thanks in advance.

Toby 

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Re: List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Raymond Camden]

Um, no. But if someone wants to volunteer to do that for all 300+
blogs, be my guest. ;)

On 9/7/07, Judah McAuley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Raymond Camden wrote:
> > And in case you can't find it on the site, you can see a visual list here:
> >
> > http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/feeds.cfm
> >
> > and an OPML feed here:
> >
> > http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/opml.cfm
> >
> > I can also get you the list spelled out on a cake. But that may take
> > longer. (And I may eat the first few blogs.)
>
> Mmmm...
>
> Have you considered adding in geospatial information for the blogs and
> then displaying them by region on a Google map?
>
> Judah
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Judah McAuley]

Raymond Camden wrote:
> And in case you can't find it on the site, you can see a visual list here:
> 
> http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/feeds.cfm
> 
> and an OPML feed here:
> 
> http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/opml.cfm
> 
> I can also get you the list spelled out on a cake. But that may take
> longer. (And I may eat the first few blogs.)

Mmmm...

Have you considered adding in geospatial information for the blogs and 
then displaying them by region on a Google map?

Judah


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Re: List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Raymond Camden]

And in case you can't find it on the site, you can see a visual list here:

http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/feeds.cfm

and an OPML feed here:

http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/opml.cfm

I can also get you the list spelled out on a cake. But that may take
longer. (And I may eat the first few blogs.)

On 9/7/07, Charlie Griefer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> would http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/ be too obvious? :)
>
> i also usually hit http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna/ and
> http://www.fullasagoog.com/ a few times a day.
>
> On 9/7/07, Ali Majdzadeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi everybody:
> > Does anyone has a list of CF Bloggers? I learnt lots of things from 
> > forta.com (Ben Forta's blog) and I really think other CF Bloggers can do 
> > the same for me. Being uptodate and know what other CFers (CF developers) 
> > think and do will be very interesting.
> > Thanks
> > Benign
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Barney Boisvert]

How about these:

http://www.fullasagoog.com/
http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna/

cheers,
barneyb

On 9/7/07, Ali Majdzadeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everybody:
> Does anyone has a list of CF Bloggers? I learnt lots of things from forta.com 
> (Ben Forta's blog) and I really think other CF Bloggers can do the same for 
> me. Being uptodate and know what other CFers (CF developers) think and do 
> will be very interesting.
> Thanks
> Benign
>
> 

~|
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Re: List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Charlie Griefer]

would http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org/ be too obvious? :)

i also usually hit http://weblogs.macromedia.com/mxna/ and
http://www.fullasagoog.com/ a few times a day.

On 9/7/07, Ali Majdzadeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everybody:
> Does anyone has a list of CF Bloggers? I learnt lots of things from forta.com 
> (Ben Forta's blog) and I really think other CF Bloggers can do the same for 
> me. Being uptodate and know what other CFers (CF developers) think and do 
> will be very interesting.
> Thanks
> Benign
>
> 

~|
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around the world in government.  Find out how and where now
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Re: List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Alan Rother]

Raymond Camden built this one.

http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org


=]

On 9/7/07, Ali Majdzadeh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi everybody:
> Does anyone has a list of CF Bloggers? I learnt lots of things from forta.com 
> (Ben Forta's blog) and I really think other CF Bloggers can do the same for 
> me. Being uptodate and know what other CFers (CF developers) think and do 
> will be very interesting.
> Thanks
> Benign
>
> 

~|
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List of Coldfusion Bloggers

[Ali Majdzadeh]

Hi everybody:
Does anyone has a list of CF Bloggers? I learnt lots of things from forta.com 
(Ben Forta's blog) and I really think other CF Bloggers can do the same for me. 
Being uptodate and know what other CFers (CF developers) think and do will be 
very interesting.
Thanks
Benign 

~|
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Janet MacKay]

>VIM, ha! Ever coded in VI (with out the nice improvements of VIM)?


Yes.  I thought I was in hell ;-)   I'm challenged.. I admit it. 

~|
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Christopher Jordan]

VIM, ha! Ever coded in VI (with out the nice improvements of VIM)?
Nightmarish some might say, but when you get so that you never have to take
your hands from the keyboard, you're golden!  good times... ;o)

Chris

On 9/7/07, Wil Genovese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I said I don't need no GUI.  Customers are a different story.  All of
> our CF servers are pure command line RedHat Enterprise. (No GUI's
> running)  Most of my servers at home are Non-GUI.  Just the dark screen
> with the warm green glow of text.
>
> Of course I still code in CFEclipse.  I haven't lost all my senses and
> switched to VIM ;-)
>
>
> --
> Wil Genovese
>
> One man with courage makes a majority.
> -Andrew Jackson
>
> A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
>
>
>
> WebSite CFtalk wrote:
> > Lol
> >
> > Tell that to your customers! ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Wil Genovese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 7. september 2007 21:11
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: Owner of fancybread.com?
> >
> > I simply typed /whois fancybread.com/ at my Linux command line.  I don't
> >
> > need no stinking GUI Interface ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Wil Genovese]

I said I don't need no GUI.  Customers are a different story.  All of 
our CF servers are pure command line RedHat Enterprise. (No GUI's 
running)  Most of my servers at home are Non-GUI.  Just the dark screen 
with the warm green glow of text.

Of course I still code in CFEclipse.  I haven't lost all my senses and 
switched to VIM ;-)


-- 
Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 



WebSite CFtalk wrote:
> Lol
>
> Tell that to your customers! ;-)
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wil Genovese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: 7. september 2007 21:11
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Owner of fancybread.com?
>
> I simply typed /whois fancybread.com/ at my Linux command line.  I don't
>
> need no stinking GUI Interface ;-)
>
>
>
>   

~|
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Re: CFTHREAD w/o CFJOIN

[Raymond Camden]

I do this now for www.cfbloggers.org. I think the only thing I'd be
concerned about is running the same task twice - by twice I mean if
you run task A before your last run of A finished. But depending on
what A is - it might not even matter.


On 9/7/07, Charles Sheehan-Miles <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If this question has been asked before, my apologies, I've been
> googling around and haven't really seen what I'm looking for.
>
> What I'm thinking about is this.  The app I'm working on has a pile
> of maintenance routines and other routine tasks that have to run
> pretty much on an ongoing basis.  For example, I have a scheduled
> task that runs every 90 seconds to see if there are any pending
> messages.  Others handle some other tasks.
>


-- 
===
Raymond Camden, Camden Media

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

~|
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scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today
ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps

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CFTHREAD w/o CFJOIN

[Charles Sheehan-Miles]

If this question has been asked before, my apologies, I've been  
googling around and haven't really seen what I'm looking for.

What I'm thinking about is this.  The app I'm working on has a pile  
of maintenance routines and other routine tasks that have to run  
pretty much on an ongoing basis.  For example, I have a scheduled  
task that runs every 90 seconds to see if there are any pending  
messages.  Others handle some other tasks.

Currently, on the first page view my app starts and creates several  
persistent application scoped CFCs.  In the OnApplicationStart method  
I call another cfc which initializes all the application level  
variables, etc.

What I'm considering doing is wrapping my various maintenance  
routines up into one function that will be called with cfthread on  
application startup, and will just run all the time at a low  
priority, looping through, then starting over again.  Consequently,  
there would never be a cfjoin statement, because this activity would  
be independent of whether anyone is actually looking at any pages.

Any thoughts on what I should consider if doing this?  Any gotchas? 

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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Rey Bango]

Ha! Well us command line-challenged folks just happen to like the warm 
and fuzzy feeling of "THE GUI"! LOL!.

Rey...

Wil Genovese wrote:
> I simply typed /whois fancybread.com/ at my Linux command line.  I don't 
> need no stinking GUI Interface ;-)
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: Owner of fancybread.com?

[WebSite CFtalk]

Lol

Tell that to your customers! ;-)



-Original Message-
From: Wil Genovese [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 7. september 2007 21:11
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

I simply typed /whois fancybread.com/ at my Linux command line.  I don't

need no stinking GUI Interface ;-)



-- 
Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 



Rey Bango wrote:
> LOL! You know that I tried so many other whois systems and none gave
me 
> that info!!
>
> Try this and you'll see what I was getting:
>
>
http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=fancybread.com&type=doma
in
>
> Thanks for getting me th info Wil.
>
> Rey
>
> Wil Genovese wrote:
>   
>> Do you need more than this?
>>
>> [whois.tucows.com]
>> Registrant:
>>  Fancy Bread Multimedia
>>  6866 Beachcliffe Drive
>>  Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
>>  CA
>>
>>  Domain name: FANCYBREAD.COM
>>
>>  Administrative Contact:
>> Marcotte, Paul  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 6866 Beachcliffe Drive
>> Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
>> CA
>> +1.6049992733
>>  Technical Contact:
>> Cupples, Lindi  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> #300-2930 Arbutus St.
>> Vancouver, BC V6J 3Y9
>> CA
>> 604-736-5312Fax: 604-736-5732
>>
>>  Registration Service Provider:
>> DotSolutions, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://www.dotsol.net
>> This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
>> DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.
>>
>>
>>  Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
>>  Record last updated on 14-Feb-2007.
>>  Record expires on 11-Mar-2008.
>>  Record created on 11-Mar-2000.
>>
>>  Domain servers in listed order:
>> NS2.010-101.COM
>> DNS1.010-101.COM
>>
>>
>> 
>
> 



~|
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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Brian Kotek]

On 9/7/07, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 9/7/07, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have a spider object. I have a string manipulation services object.
>
> The spider object is not an instance of a strings object because it
> doesn't
> make sense in an OO fashion for it to be. However, the spider object
> relies
> heavily on the string manipulation object. In fact, many of my objects
> rely
> on services offered by the strings object.
>
> Essentially, the string manipulation object is "injected" into those
> objects
> that need it so I don't have to keep re-instantiating multiple string
> manipulation objects over and over again. This is extremely memory
> efficient
> as I have far fewer object instantiations within the applications object
> hierarchy.


Agreed. ColdSpring does all this for me and I couldn't imagine building an
application of any complexity without dependency injection.


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RE: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Paul Vernon]

> On 9/7/07, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >




> 
> 
> OK, but you're defining the event to listener mappings somewhere then.
> That's the point. To have somewhere you can look to figure out what is
> going
> on. I've seen apps (particularly Flash/Flex apps but it could apply to
> CF as
> well) where people just have an event run that calls a method and that
> method raises another event, meanwhile other objects are listening to
> those
> events and they run, and maybe raise yet other events. This almost
> instantly
> turns into a spaghetti nightmare where you have absolutely no idea what
> is
> going on.

Yes, that is the purpose of the listener, it keeps track of everything. With
CF8, I'm attempting to use cfthread to make this quicker but I do have a
couple of events that in-turn fire other events. This means that for these
particular cases, cfthread won't work because I cannot nest thread
generation. I know it was a conscious decision to disallow nested threading
models in the CF8 development process to a) keep things simple and b)
protect CF from poor coders using cfthread to kill the server :) but I'd
rather have had a cfadmin setting to allow or disallow this feature so in
shared hosted environments, nested threading would be off and for people who
run their own servers, they could if they wanted to, turn nested threading
on...

> By giving the responsibility of registration to the init functions of
> each
> > object, I do not need to statically configure dependencies in an XML
> file
> > like you are describing for Mach-II. Instead, the entire application
> > object
> > hierarchy configures itself dynamically and any dependencies are
> resolved
> > automatically.
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean here. If you mean "object dependencies",  I
> use
> ColdSpring to resolve dependencies (as well as perform AOP tasks and
> proxy
> generation). I'm unclear on how you could resolve all the object
> dependencies by the "application object hierarchy" since CF only
> supports
> single inheritance. Unless you have some other, external method of
> defining
> this hierarchy.

I have a spider object. I have a string manipulation services object.

The spider object is not an instance of a strings object because it doesn't
make sense in an OO fashion for it to be. However, the spider object relies
heavily on the string manipulation object. In fact, many of my objects rely
on services offered by the strings object. 

Essentially, the string manipulation object is "injected" into those objects
that need it so I don't have to keep re-instantiating multiple string
manipulation objects over and over again. This is extremely memory efficient
as I have far fewer object instantiations within the applications object
hierarchy.

> Also, by using an object factory to handle the object instantiation, I
> don't
> > even have to worry about an object being there or not at start up. If
> an
> > object isn't there and a piece of code runs that has a dependency,
> the
> > object factory handles the instantiation of that "missing" object.
> 
> 
> Factories are wonderful. Again, I use ColdSpring but rolling your own
> is
> always an option.
> 
> The only static configuration I have to do for my apps is telling it
> which
> > features any given app has. Some clients want a newsletter manager,
> some
> > want and e-Commerce system. All I do is set up the objectFactory
> config
> > file
> > as required and run the app.
> >
> > Because we couple this framework with a separate presentation layer
> > (usually
> > XHTML), most of my work these days is based on configuration, styling
> and
> > resource bundle editing :-)... It makes for fast development and
> > turnaround
> > times with a higher profit margin than building from scratch every
> time.
> > Every so often, a client asks for a feature that we don't have so I
> still
> > get to build new sets of objects and features in CF.
> 
> 
> As always, separate presentation layers are a must. What you describe
> sounds
> similar to what Peter Bell is doing with his generation of applications
> based on DSLs (domain-specific languages for anyone who might not know
> the
> acronym).
> 
> I have to say though, I wouldn't attempt to do this sort of thing in
> PHP
> > maybe ASP.NET but not PHP... What a hateful situation that would be.
> CF
> > makes my life so much easier!
> 
> 
> Heh, yes CF makes many things very easy. To be fair, you could totally
> do
> this in PHP as well. In some ways it's support for objects is better
> than
> CF's (static methods can be handy). (And if Vince pops in, yes, I know
> BlueDragon has static methods ;-) )
> 

I know PHP5 is very capable of the techniques and methods we're discussing
but the way it achieves them for me is an over complication of something
that should be simple. Being a software engineer at heart and coming from an
6502 assembler background as a kid, moving onto C/C++, Delphi and Java as a
teenager, student and now for the last 1- 

RE: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[Billy Cox]

I would be open to Linux, but I have already drunk the MS SQL Server red
kool-aid.



-Original Message-
From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 10:47 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?


On Friday 07 Sep 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Does anyone have recommendations, advice, etc. as to what machine, web 
> server, SQL Server flavor, and CF server would be the best choice?

Given you already know (I guess) Windows and SQL Server, is there any point 
suggesting an el-cheapo generic Dell server, some brand of Linux and MySQL ?

-- 
Tom Chiverton
Helping to seamlessly scale vertical information
on: http://thefalken.livejournal.com



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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Wil Genovese]

I simply typed /whois fancybread.com/ at my Linux command line.  I don't 
need no stinking GUI Interface ;-)



-- 
Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 



Rey Bango wrote:
> LOL! You know that I tried so many other whois systems and none gave me 
> that info!!
>
> Try this and you'll see what I was getting:
>
> http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=fancybread.com&type=domain
>
> Thanks for getting me th info Wil.
>
> Rey
>
> Wil Genovese wrote:
>   
>> Do you need more than this?
>>
>> [whois.tucows.com]
>> Registrant:
>>  Fancy Bread Multimedia
>>  6866 Beachcliffe Drive
>>  Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
>>  CA
>>
>>  Domain name: FANCYBREAD.COM
>>
>>  Administrative Contact:
>> Marcotte, Paul  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> 6866 Beachcliffe Drive
>> Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
>> CA
>> +1.6049992733
>>  Technical Contact:
>> Cupples, Lindi  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> #300-2930 Arbutus St.
>> Vancouver, BC V6J 3Y9
>> CA
>> 604-736-5312Fax: 604-736-5732
>>
>>  Registration Service Provider:
>> DotSolutions, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> http://www.dotsol.net
>> This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
>> DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.
>>
>>
>>  Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
>>  Record last updated on 14-Feb-2007.
>>  Record expires on 11-Mar-2008.
>>  Record created on 11-Mar-2000.
>>
>>  Domain servers in listed order:
>> NS2.010-101.COM
>> DNS1.010-101.COM
>>
>>
>> 
>
> 

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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Cutter (CFRelated)]

Yeah, Charlie Arehart gave me an About pod for BlogCFC, some time back, 
when he couldn't figure out who I was.

Steve "Cutter" Blades
Adobe Certified Professional
Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer
_
http://blog.cutterscrossing.com

Raymond Camden wrote:
> Yet another blog w/ no contact, or who am I page. I tell ya - I see
> this so much I think I'm going to make the next version of BlogCFC
> have a Contact Owner link show up by default. Just to "nudge" people.
> 
> On 9/7/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Betterwhois.com is your friend:
>> http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=6278&domain=fancybread.co
>> m
>>
> 

~|
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RE: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Andy Matthews]

That's actually a great idea Ray... 

-Original Message-
From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 1:47 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

Yet another blog w/ no contact, or who am I page. I tell ya - I see this so
much I think I'm going to make the next version of BlogCFC have a Contact
Owner link show up by default. Just to "nudge" people.

On 9/7/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Betterwhois.com is your friend:
> http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=6278&domain=fancybr
> ead.co
> m
>

--
===
Raymond Camden, Camden Media

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org



~|
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Rey Bango]

I'm guilty of this as well so this feature would be awesome!

Rey...

Raymond Camden wrote:
> Yet another blog w/ no contact, or who am I page. I tell ya - I see
> this so much I think I'm going to make the next version of BlogCFC
> have a Contact Owner link show up by default. Just to "nudge" people.
> 
> On 9/7/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Betterwhois.com is your friend:
>> http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=6278&domain=fancybread.co
>> m
>>
> 

~|
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Brian Rinaldi]

The owner is Paul Marcotte, a very nice dude with whom I communicate
fairly regularly. If you want an email, feel free to ping me off list.
-- 
Brian Rinaldi
blog - http://www.remotesynthesis.com/blog
ColdFusion Open Source List- http://www.remotesynthesis.com/cfopensourcelist
Boston CFUG - http://www.bostoncfug.org
Adobe Community Expert -
http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/members/brian_rinaldi.html


On 9/7/07, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yet another blog w/ no contact, or who am I page. I tell ya - I see
> this so much I think I'm going to make the next version of BlogCFC
> have a Contact Owner link show up by default. Just to "nudge" people.
>
> On 9/7/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Betterwhois.com is your friend:
> > http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=6278&domain=fancybread.co
> > m
> >
>
> --
> ===
> Raymond Camden, Camden Media
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
> AOL IM : cfjedimaster
>
> Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

~|
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Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[John Paul Ashenfelter]

> The only tag I would miss with the free edition is cfdocument, but it's not
> a deal breaker.
> Are there any other things that I am likely to miss in wandering outside of
> the CF server green zone?

I've got nothing against BD, but personally I find it's a bad idea to
deal with two slightly different platforms, whether it's BD and CF or
CF7 and CF8 or any other pairing that will inevitably burn you . If
your company runs CF7, I'd buy CF7. The server plus the license are in
the $50-100/user range if you're really talking about 25-50 users. By
most measures that's what, cost of coffee service for a year? :)

Basically, running two platforms to "save a little money" in my
experience never does. Of course if you've got a CF5 application for
the company, then you're running a different version of CF regardless
that's just as bad as the BD vs CF (or Railio for that matter)
difference and just a likely to burn time/money down the road.

One potential piece of your ROI calculation could involve using CF8 on
the new development (esp if you're running CF7 in production) and use
the new, internal, in-many-ways-less-risky development to get up to
speed on the new features/platform before upgrading the main systems
to CF8 which could justify both the license and your time.

-- 
John Paul Ashenfelter
CTO/Transitionpoint
(blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com
(email) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

~|
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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Brian Kotek]

On 9/7/07, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> Essentially, there is a central registry of events that tracks this for
> me.
> I can query the registry to see what objects had registered event handlers
> for any given event if I need to, but 99.9% of the time *i don't need to
> know* because it handles it all for me. I call this registry the
> "listener"
> because it is the object responsible for registering the event handlers,
> listening for events and invoking the relevant handlers.


OK, but you're defining the event to listener mappings somewhere then.
That's the point. To have somewhere you can look to figure out what is going
on. I've seen apps (particularly Flash/Flex apps but it could apply to CF as
well) where people just have an event run that calls a method and that
method raises another event, meanwhile other objects are listening to those
events and they run, and maybe raise yet other events. This almost instantly
turns into a spaghetti nightmare where you have absolutely no idea what is
going on.

By giving the responsibility of registration to the init functions of each
> object, I do not need to statically configure dependencies in an XML file
> like you are describing for Mach-II. Instead, the entire application
> object
> hierarchy configures itself dynamically and any dependencies are resolved
> automatically.


I'm not sure what you mean here. If you mean "object dependencies",  I use
ColdSpring to resolve dependencies (as well as perform AOP tasks and proxy
generation). I'm unclear on how you could resolve all the object
dependencies by the "application object hierarchy" since CF only supports
single inheritance. Unless you have some other, external method of defining
this hierarchy.

Also, by using an object factory to handle the object instantiation, I don't
> even have to worry about an object being there or not at start up. If an
> object isn't there and a piece of code runs that has a dependency, the
> object factory handles the instantiation of that "missing" object.


Factories are wonderful. Again, I use ColdSpring but rolling your own is
always an option.

The only static configuration I have to do for my apps is telling it which
> features any given app has. Some clients want a newsletter manager, some
> want and e-Commerce system. All I do is set up the objectFactory config
> file
> as required and run the app.
>
> Because we couple this framework with a separate presentation layer
> (usually
> XHTML), most of my work these days is based on configuration, styling and
> resource bundle editing :-)... It makes for fast development and
> turnaround
> times with a higher profit margin than building from scratch every time.
> Every so often, a client asks for a feature that we don't have so I still
> get to build new sets of objects and features in CF.


As always, separate presentation layers are a must. What you describe sounds
similar to what Peter Bell is doing with his generation of applications
based on DSLs (domain-specific languages for anyone who might not know the
acronym).

I have to say though, I wouldn't attempt to do this sort of thing in PHP
> maybe ASP.NET but not PHP... What a hateful situation that would be. CF
> makes my life so much easier!


Heh, yes CF makes many things very easy. To be fair, you could totally do
this in PHP as well. In some ways it's support for objects is better than
CF's (static methods can be handy). (And if Vince pops in, yes, I know
BlueDragon has static methods ;-) )


~|
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Raymond Camden]

Yet another blog w/ no contact, or who am I page. I tell ya - I see
this so much I think I'm going to make the next version of BlogCFC
have a Contact Owner link show up by default. Just to "nudge" people.

On 9/7/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Betterwhois.com is your friend:
> http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=6278&domain=fancybread.co
> m
>

-- 
===
Raymond Camden, Camden Media

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog  : www.coldfusionjedi.com
AOL IM : cfjedimaster

Keep up to date with the community: http://www.coldfusionbloggers.org

~|
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RE: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[Billy Cox]

I'm strongly leaning toward using Blue Dragon. What is the eligibility
criteria for the free edition? The website seems to suggest that non-SSL use
is free. 

The only tag I would miss with the free edition is cfdocument, but it's not
a deal breaker. 
Are there any other things that I am likely to miss in wandering outside of
the CF server green zone?

I've pretty much settled on SQL Server 2005 Express, although I will have to
use CF scheduled tasks for automation instead of DTS (SSIS).


Thanks all.


-Original Message-
From: John Paul Ashenfelter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 12:47 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?


On 9/7/07, Pete Ruckelshaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd do something like this:
>
> * Base Dell Poweredge or similar with dual core CPU
> * Minimum 2GB RAM
> * A pair of SATA drives in RAID1 (software RAID at the OS level would 
> be
> fine)
> * MS Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
> * MS SQL Server 2005 Express (standard won't run on the web edition OS)
> * CF or BD (might qualify as a BD Free edition install)
>

I'll vote for this as well. I've got a client that's repurposed their "main"
application for a couple of very small state agency clients using a similar
setup. Their big version runs on a 2 member cluster of CF7/Win2k3 Web
Edition/Apache2 with a MSQQL2000Std/Win2k3Std db server all on medium-sized
configurations of Dell 1850 racks.

The small installation of the same software uses a Dell 740 rackmount (P4,
SATA RAID1) running Win2k3 Web/Apache2/MSSQL2005Express all on one box.
That's a glorified rackmounted desktop machine :) Cost for the box+os was
something like $1200 when purchased a few years ago.

As an aside, the only serious limits for MSSQL2005 Express are the 4gb per
database limit and potentially the 1 CPU limit (keeps the server cheap
though -- no need for dual proc since you can't use it directly, though the
2nd proc will help CF). And the best news is you can implement this on a
fairly vanilla desktop to get started assuming you can deal with the whole
data redundancy issue (a nightly backup may be good enough if you don't need
sophisticated RAID reliability).


-- 
John Paul Ashenfelter
CTO/Transitionpoint
(blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com
(email) [EMAIL PROTECTED]



~|
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RE: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Andy Matthews]

Betterwhois.com is your friend:
http://www.betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?verification=6278&domain=fancybread.co
m
 

-Original Message-
From: Rey Bango [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 1:23 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

LOL! You know that I tried so many other whois systems and none gave me that
info!!

Try this and you'll see what I was getting:

http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=fancybread.com&type=domain

Thanks for getting me th info Wil.

Rey

Wil Genovese wrote:
> Do you need more than this?
> 
> [whois.tucows.com]
> Registrant:
>  Fancy Bread Multimedia
>  6866 Beachcliffe Drive
>  Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
>  CA
> 
>  Domain name: FANCYBREAD.COM
> 
>  Administrative Contact:
> Marcotte, Paul  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 6866 Beachcliffe Drive
> Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
> CA
> +1.6049992733
>  Technical Contact:
> Cupples, Lindi  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> #300-2930 Arbutus St.
> Vancouver, BC V6J 3Y9
> CA
> 604-736-5312Fax: 604-736-5732
> 
>  Registration Service Provider:
> DotSolutions, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.dotsol.net
> This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
> DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.
> 
> 
>  Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
>  Record last updated on 14-Feb-2007.
>  Record expires on 11-Mar-2008.
>  Record created on 11-Mar-2000.
> 
>  Domain servers in listed order:
> NS2.010-101.COM
> DNS1.010-101.COM
> 
> 



~|
Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product
development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki.
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RE: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Paul Vernon]

> > Not necessarily, if you have an event's based system where your event
> > handlers register themselves as being interested in specific events
> eg
> >
> >  "onRegisterStrings")>
> >  
> 
> 
> Mach-II does the same thing. However, you generally define what objects
> respond to what events in a central XML config file. In the approach
> you
> describe, where any object may or may not register itself to listen for
> any
> event, how do you keep track of what is responding to what? Unless I'm
> misunderstanding, this sounds like a situation where you have no idea
> what
> is running when an event is raised without actually going and looking
> at
> every CFC that could possibly be registering itself to listen for that
> event. How do you keep track of what is going on?
> 

Essentially, there is a central registry of events that tracks this for me.
I can query the registry to see what objects had registered event handlers
for any given event if I need to, but 99.9% of the time *i don't need to
know* because it handles it all for me. I call this registry the "listener"
because it is the object responsible for registering the event handlers,
listening for events and invoking the relevant handlers.

By giving the responsibility of registration to the init functions of each
object, I do not need to statically configure dependencies in an XML file
like you are describing for Mach-II. Instead, the entire application object
hierarchy configures itself dynamically and any dependencies are resolved
automatically.

Also, by using an object factory to handle the object instantiation, I don't
even have to worry about an object being there or not at start up. If an
object isn't there and a piece of code runs that has a dependency, the
object factory handles the instantiation of that "missing" object.

The only static configuration I have to do for my apps is telling it which
features any given app has. Some clients want a newsletter manager, some
want and e-Commerce system. All I do is set up the objectFactory config file
as required and run the app.

Because we couple this framework with a separate presentation layer (usually
XHTML), most of my work these days is based on configuration, styling and
resource bundle editing :-)... It makes for fast development and turnaround
times with a higher profit margin than building from scratch every time.
Every so often, a client asks for a feature that we don't have so I still
get to build new sets of objects and features in CF. 

I have to say though, I wouldn't attempt to do this sort of thing in PHP
maybe ASP.NET but not PHP... What a hateful situation that would be. CF
makes my life so much easier!

Paul



~|
Create robust enterprise, web RIAs.
Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex
http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP

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RE: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Andy Matthews]

Rey...

http://flash.meetup.com/110/members/4956371/

This appears to be him, as the "link" shows fancybread.com.

-Original Message-
From: Rey Bango [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 1:10 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Owner of fancybread.com?

Anyone know who the owner of http://www.fancybread.com/blog/? I'd like to
get in contact with him/her.

Rey...



~|
Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs
Forum direct from active programmers and developers.
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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Rey Bango]

LOL! You know that I tried so many other whois systems and none gave me 
that info!!

Try this and you'll see what I was getting:

http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=fancybread.com&type=domain

Thanks for getting me th info Wil.

Rey

Wil Genovese wrote:
> Do you need more than this?
> 
> [whois.tucows.com]
> Registrant:
>  Fancy Bread Multimedia
>  6866 Beachcliffe Drive
>  Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
>  CA
> 
>  Domain name: FANCYBREAD.COM
> 
>  Administrative Contact:
> Marcotte, Paul  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 6866 Beachcliffe Drive
> Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
> CA
> +1.6049992733
>  Technical Contact:
> Cupples, Lindi  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> #300-2930 Arbutus St.
> Vancouver, BC V6J 3Y9
> CA
> 604-736-5312Fax: 604-736-5732
> 
>  Registration Service Provider:
> DotSolutions, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.dotsol.net
> This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
> DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.
> 
> 
>  Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
>  Record last updated on 14-Feb-2007.
>  Record expires on 11-Mar-2008.
>  Record created on 11-Mar-2000.
> 
>  Domain servers in listed order:
> NS2.010-101.COM
> DNS1.010-101.COM
> 
> 

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Re: Owner of fancybread.com?

[Wil Genovese]

Do you need more than this?

[whois.tucows.com]
Registrant:
 Fancy Bread Multimedia
 6866 Beachcliffe Drive
 Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
 CA

 Domain name: FANCYBREAD.COM

 Administrative Contact:
Marcotte, Paul  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6866 Beachcliffe Drive
Burnaby, BC V5B4R3
CA
+1.6049992733
 Technical Contact:
Cupples, Lindi  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#300-2930 Arbutus St.
Vancouver, BC V6J 3Y9
CA
604-736-5312Fax: 604-736-5732

 Registration Service Provider:
DotSolutions, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.dotsol.net
This company may be contacted for domain login/passwords,
DNS/Nameserver changes, and general domain support questions.


 Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
 Record last updated on 14-Feb-2007.
 Record expires on 11-Mar-2008.
 Record created on 11-Mar-2000.

 Domain servers in listed order:
NS2.010-101.COM
DNS1.010-101.COM


-- 
Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 



Rey Bango wrote:
> Anyone know who the owner of http://www.fancybread.com/blog/? I'd like 
> to get in contact with him/her.
>
> Rey...
>
> 

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Owner of fancybread.com?

[Rey Bango]

Anyone know who the owner of http://www.fancybread.com/blog/? I'd like 
to get in contact with him/her.

Rey...

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Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[John Paul Ashenfelter]

On 9/7/07, Pete Ruckelshaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'd do something like this:
>
> * Base Dell Poweredge or similar with dual core CPU
> * Minimum 2GB RAM
> * A pair of SATA drives in RAID1 (software RAID at the OS level would be
> fine)
> * MS Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
> * MS SQL Server 2005 Express (standard won't run on the web edition OS)
> * CF or BD (might qualify as a BD Free edition install)
>

I'll vote for this as well. I've got a client that's repurposed their
"main" application for a couple of very small state agency clients
using a similar setup. Their big version runs on a 2 member cluster of
CF7/Win2k3 Web Edition/Apache2 with a MSQQL2000Std/Win2k3Std db server
all on medium-sized configurations of Dell 1850 racks.

The small installation of the same software uses a Dell 740 rackmount
(P4, SATA RAID1) running Win2k3 Web/Apache2/MSSQL2005Express all on
one box. That's a glorified rackmounted desktop machine :) Cost for
the box+os was something like $1200 when purchased a few years ago.

As an aside, the only serious limits for MSSQL2005 Express are the 4gb
per database limit and potentially the 1 CPU limit (keeps the server
cheap though -- no need for dual proc since you can't use it directly,
though the 2nd proc will help CF). And the best news is you can
implement this on a fairly vanilla desktop to get started assuming you
can deal with the whole data redundancy issue (a nightly backup may be
good enough if you don't need sophisticated RAID reliability).


-- 
John Paul Ashenfelter
CTO/Transitionpoint
(blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com
(email) [EMAIL PROTECTED]

~|
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Re: MS SQL 2005 and CFMX 7.02Ent

[John Paul Ashenfelter]

On 9/7/07, Wil Genovese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm thinking this got lost in yesterday's backlog.  Does anyone have any
> clues on this?

Not directly, but 2 years ago I did do some analysis of MSSQL JDBC
drivers as part of a project and we ended up looking at both jTurbo
(from NewAtlanta) and JTDS (open source http://jtds.sourceforge.net/)
in addition to MS's driver. The MS driver was awful (this was the
1.0beta) and JTDS was *really* fast. Info is two years old, but it's
pretty easy to try either the demo of jTurbo or the open source JTDS
option to see if they address the issue.

Ironically, about 80% of my ColdFusion work in the MX6->7 era was
using non-bundled drives, JTDS in some cases for MSSQL and of course
always the MySQL driver that supported MySQL 4.1+. Thankfully in CF8
there is a finally decent MySQL 4/5 driver

> --
> Wil Genovese
>
> One man with courage makes a majority.
> -Andrew Jackson
>
> A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
>
>
>
> Wil Genovese wrote:
> > Ok, we recently switched to running MS SQL 2005 servers in an 
> > Active/Passive cluster on Win2003 (64Bit).  While we were testing we had no 
> > issues with DB access. After migrating most of our databases to the SQL 
> > 2005 Cluster we are not getting the same error a few times a day that 
> > crashes our whole CFMX application (which is running behind a load balancer 
> > across three CFMX servers.
> >
> > The error we see is this: (note: az_tar is a valid name of a DB)
> >
> > Message: Error Executing Database Query.
> > Detail: [Macromedia][SQLServer JDBC Driver][SQLServer]Cannot open database 
> > "az_tar" requested by the login. The login failed.
> > Date: 09/05/2007
> > Time: 06:16:08
> >
> > The login permissions are set right and have not changed from the previous 
> > server to this server cluster. Also, the logins work most of the day 
> > without an issue then all of a sudden for reasons unknown to us this error 
> > pops up across most or all the databases on this server.
> >
> > We found a MS JDBC driver (Microsoft SQL Server 2005 JDBC Driver 1.1) that 
> > they state "In its continued commitment to interoperability, Microsoft 
> > provides a Java Database Connectivity (JDBC) driver for use with SQL Server 
> > 2005."
> >
> > My questions are:
> > Has anyone see this issue before?
> > And if so, what was the problem/solution?
> > Has anyone tried this MS JDBC Driver and what were your results?
> >
> > Thank You,
> > Wil Genovese
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Brian Kotek]

The point being, handling it properly is a complex endeavor that must be
very carefully considered.

On 9/7/07, Paul Vernon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > difficult to test. Also, if any of these variables are coming from the
> > form
> > or URL scope, it opens up huge security holes because the user could
> > modify
>
> Not necessarily, if you have an event's based system where your event
> handlers register themselves as being interested in specific events eg
>
> 
>  


Mach-II does the same thing. However, you generally define what objects
respond to what events in a central XML config file. In the approach you
describe, where any object may or may not register itself to listen for any
event, how do you keep track of what is responding to what? Unless I'm
misunderstanding, this sounds like a situation where you have no idea what
is running when an event is raised without actually going and looking at
every CFC that could possibly be registering itself to listen for that
event. How do you keep track of what is going on?


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Re: MS SQL 2005 and CFMX 7.02Ent

[Wil Genovese]

I'm thinking this got lost in yesterday's backlog.  Does anyone have any 
clues on this?

-- 
Wil Genovese

One man with courage makes a majority.
-Andrew Jackson

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well. 



Wil Genovese wrote:
> Ok, we recently switched to running MS SQL 2005 servers in an Active/Passive 
> cluster on Win2003 (64Bit).  While we were testing we had no issues with DB 
> access. After migrating most of our databases to the SQL 2005 Cluster we are 
> not getting the same error a few times a day that crashes our whole CFMX 
> application (which is running behind a load balancer across three CFMX 
> servers.
>
> The error we see is this: (note: az_tar is a valid name of a DB)
>
> Message: Error Executing Database Query.
> Detail: [Macromedia][SQLServer JDBC Driver][SQLServer]Cannot open database 
> "az_tar" requested by the login. The login failed.
> Date: 09/05/2007
> Time: 06:16:08
>
> The login permissions are set right and have not changed from the previous 
> server to this server cluster. Also, the logins work most of the day without 
> an issue then all of a sudden for reasons unknown to us this error pops up 
> across most or all the databases on this server.
>
> We found a MS JDBC driver (Microsoft SQL Server 2005 JDBC Driver 1.1) that 
> they state "In its continued commitment to interoperability, Microsoft 
> provides a Java Database Connectivity (JDBC) driver for use with SQL Server 
> 2005."  
>
> My questions are:
> Has anyone see this issue before?
> And if so, what was the problem/solution?
> Has anyone tried this MS JDBC Driver and what were your results?
>
> Thank You,
> Wil Genovese
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Andrew Grosset]

Thanks everyone I got it working! and yes security is an issue so I am storing 
the cfc name and function in a struct and then passing in a key (uuid) to 
evaluate the cfc name and function. This is an ajax (JSMX) application where 
its not hard to deduce the cfc and method being used so in my system everything 
goes through one controlling cfc and is then routed according to the data 
stored in the cfcKey struct. The cfcKey Struct also stores a boolean value to 
determine weather the method should be allowed with or without a session id.



Andrew. 

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Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[Pete Ruckelshaus]

I'd do something like this:

* Base Dell Poweredge or similar with dual core CPU
* Minimum 2GB RAM
* A pair of SATA drives in RAID1 (software RAID at the OS level would be
fine)
* MS Windows Server 2003 Web Edition
* MS SQL Server 2005 Express (standard won't run on the web edition OS)
* CF or BD (might qualify as a BD Free edition install)

Might be able to do that for less than $1k

Pete


On 9/7/07, Billy Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My company is currently using a number of MS Access applications that we
> have long ago outgrown. We already host our websites on a dedicated server
> running CF7 and SQL Server 2000, so it makes sense to redevelop the Access
> applications we need in CF7 and some flavor of SQL Server on a server
> inside
> our firewall.
>
> We have no more than 25 users and we aren't doing anything exotic, so I am
> looking for a light duty configuration that will not be completely alien
> to
> what we already have in place on the web server.
>
> There is no budget for this (yet), so I will be doing ROI calculations -
> translation: I want to set the cost requirements as low as possible to
> start
> with.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations, advice, etc. as to what machine, web
> server, SQL Server flavor, and CF server would be the best choice?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Billy Cox
> Old World Spices
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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RE: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Paul Vernon]

> difficult to test. Also, if any of these variables are coming from the
> form
> or URL scope, it opens up huge security holes because the user could
> modify

Not necessarily, if you have an event's based system where your event
handlers register themselves as being interested in specific events eg


 

A centrally managed event handling mechanism could then be used to cfinvoke
only those functions that are registered as event handlers. If you so chose
to allow firing of events on a URL request, it would be impervious to
alterations and could fail gracefully with a no such event/event handler
found error. Eg




Fire event would look something like this...














I use this method to loosely couple objects using an object factory with an
event queue so that when an object is instantiated, it notifies all the
other existing objects that are interested in knowing about its existence by
firing the event.

When the application is starting up, the event queue starts in a paused
mode, to ensure that all the core objects are created *before* the events
get fired.

It works very well indeed and allows us to flexibly build out our framework
and use already instantiated objects to speed things up.

For extra performance, with CF8, I'm building in thread support so each
 gets fired on a thread. Because my events are effectively
procedures rather than functions in that they do not return anything so I
don't have to wait for a response from the threads. Theoretically, it should
make the whole event model very fast indeed. Now if only CF8 had nested
threading capabilities... :)

Paul



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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Raymond Camden]

Ah yes - you are right, and your method would work just fine. I think
people forget cfinvoke can take an instance, not just the name of a
cfc.

On 9/7/07, Josh Nathanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You don't have to get that complex. Just do
> >
> > 
>
> I think he said the component name was dynamic as well as the method though,
> so he'd need to do this:
>
> 
>
> -- Josh
>
>
> 

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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Brian Kotek]

I'd be careful doing this. For certain things there is no way around making
a dynamic call. But if you add lots of calls to dynamic CFC names, with
dynamic method names and dynamic arguments, you're basically making it
impossible to follow the application flow and probably making things very
difficult to test. Also, if any of these variables are coming from the form
or URL scope, it opens up huge security holes because the user could modify
the values and essentially be able to call anything.


On 9/7/07, Josh Nathanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > You don't have to get that complex. Just do
> >
> > 
>
> I think he said the component name was dynamic as well as the method
> though,
> so he'd need to do this:
>
> 
>
> -- Josh
>
>
> 

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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Josh Nathanson]

> You don't have to get that complex. Just do
>
> 

I think he said the component name was dynamic as well as the method though, 
so he'd need to do this:



-- Josh


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Re: Javascript problem only, but....

[Claude Schneegans]

 >>This summarises the situation:

More specifically, I found this page which reports exactly the problem:
http://www.quirksmode.org/bugreports/archives/2006/02/scrollTop_in_select_list_in_IE_is_always_0.html

It is another problem due to the windowed nature of the select box in IE.
No work around is reported :-(

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Re: Javascript problem only, but....

[Claude Schneegans]

 >>Hope this helps.

Thanks, but not really.
This apply to the document itself, the whole page, ie. the body.
But what about a select box inside the page?

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Re: How to move CFIDE in CF8?

[Tom Chiverton]

> Apparently, absolute links to CFIDE are hard coded in the Administrator
> it self,

You should set up a 'manager' virtual host then, that isn't accessable to the 
world.

> and the templates are encrypted :­( 

Is google broken ? Or CF8's really encrypted (unlike 7) ?

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Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[Aaron Rouse]

Since you already are in a Windows world and are using MSSQL, I would
probably stick to something close.  I would use the express version of MSSQL
2005(verify that is legal to do, pretty certain it is), CF Pro and on
Windows with IIS.  An out of the box installation of those things probably
would present you with no issues at all.  I bet any modern server would be
fine for you.  I have a couple of clients that only have 25-50 users and the
machines they are using for their CF, Windows OS, IIS, and database, could
not even be classified as servers.

On 9/7/07, Billy Cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My company is currently using a number of MS Access applications that we
> have long ago outgrown. We already host our websites on a dedicated server
> running CF7 and SQL Server 2000, so it makes sense to redevelop the Access
> applications we need in CF7 and some flavor of SQL Server on a server
> inside
> our firewall.
>
> We have no more than 25 users and we aren't doing anything exotic, so I am
> looking for a light duty configuration that will not be completely alien
> to
> what we already have in place on the web server.
>
> There is no budget for this (yet), so I will be doing ROI calculations -
> translation: I want to set the cost requirements as low as possible to
> start
> with.
>
> Does anyone have recommendations, advice, etc. as to what machine, web
> server, SQL Server flavor, and CF server would be the best choice?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Billy Cox
> Old World Spices
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: How to move CFIDE in CF8?

[Claude Schneegans]

 >>I'm guessing now that this will require the editing of an XML
configuration file.

I tried this, but it doen't work.
Apparently, absolute links to CFIDE are hard coded in the Administrator 
it self, and the templates are encrypted :-(

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Re: Light-duty CF intranet server?

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 07 Sep 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Does anyone have recommendations, advice, etc. as to what machine, web
> server, SQL Server flavor, and CF server would be the best choice?

Given you already know (I guess) Windows and SQL Server, is there any point 
suggesting an el-cheapo generic Dell server, some brand of Linux and MySQL ?

-- 
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Oder by and Maxrows sorting problem

[Paul Ihrig]

Hey guys.
i know i have found out how to do this befor, but cant track down the post..

i have a record set, its returnning 5 out of 9 records..
page 1 of 2 records 1-5..

i can sort asc/desc
UserID DescUserID Asc">ID

but when i click again it gives me records 5-9 desc
which ould be fine. but i would like to it to just give me records 5-1

i have tried puting the paging infor in the href.. but cant seem to be
able to nail it.
any help would be great!
thanks!


the paging vars








  


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Light-duty CF intranet server?

[Billy Cox]

My company is currently using a number of MS Access applications that we
have long ago outgrown. We already host our websites on a dedicated server
running CF7 and SQL Server 2000, so it makes sense to redevelop the Access
applications we need in CF7 and some flavor of SQL Server on a server inside
our firewall.
 
We have no more than 25 users and we aren't doing anything exotic, so I am
looking for a light duty configuration that will not be completely alien to
what we already have in place on the web server. 
 
There is no budget for this (yet), so I will be doing ROI calculations -
translation: I want to set the cost requirements as low as possible to start
with.
 
Does anyone have recommendations, advice, etc. as to what machine, web
server, SQL Server flavor, and CF server would be the best choice?
 
 
Thanks, 
 
Billy Cox
Old World Spices
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 




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Re: webservice

[Brian Kotek]

It was a lot better than the non-question you used to start this thread.

To answer it, no one died and left me master of anything. I'm just telling
you how it is here in the real world. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help
you. I really don't care if you absorb what I'm telling you or not. You
might note that no one else has even bothered to respond to your initial
post. If you ever want to get actual help with your problems, I suggest
reading the link I sent and learning to follow its guidelines. So, you can
either keep acting indignant, or you can see that what I'm telling you is
true and adjust your future posts accordingly.


On 9/7/07, Chad Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Who died and made you forum master of questions asking?
>
> Was that a properly formatted question?
>
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:52 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: webservice
> >
> > You're missing the point. Don't just post to a forum saying nothing but
> > "I'm
> > trying to do X and I get error Y." That's not even a question, not to
> > mention all of the relevant information that you have not provided.
> >
> > http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> >
> > On 9/6/07, Chad Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > So how do I make this complexType in java?  I don't understand the
> > error.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 4:19 PM
> > > To: CF-Talk
> > > Subject: Re: webservice
> > >
> > > Ok.
> > >
> > > On 9/5/07, Chad Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am trying to work with a web service and I am getting this error
> in
> > > CF.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Error converting CFML arguments to Java classes for web service
> > > > invocation.
> > > > Unable to create web service argument class [
> > > > Lcom.canto.www._2005.cumulus.ws.types.Record;. Error:
> > > > java.lang.InstantiationException: [
> > > > Lcom.canto.www._2005.cumulus.ws.types.Record;. Often this is because
> > the
> > > > web service defines an abstract complexType as an input to an
> > operation.
> > > You
> > > > must create an actual instance of this type in Java.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

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RE: CF8 Debugging

[Dave Watts]

> What other functionality relies on the CFIDE mapping?  It it 
> necessary for things like CFFORM?

It's used by a lot of stuff, like CFFORM, CFWDDX, RDS, CFC browsing, the
admin API, charting, probably some other stuff I've forgotten.

> Which also begs the question - is there some functionality 
> that relies on the /cfdocs mapping?

No. And, as an aside, that isn't "begging the question".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

> The thing about needing /CFIDE that strikes me a odd is that 
> it contains the CF Administrator application, so that the 
> Administrator becomes accessible from every web site on the 
> server. Yes, it's up to the system administrator to make sure 
> the CF Administrator is properly secured, but this still seems
> rather a lax approach.  The CF Administrator isn't be 
> needed on every site.

Changing this would add significant complexity to what is already a
relatively complex process. I would like to see it happen automatically as
well, but I'm not sure how it could be done, to be perfectly honest. There
are some processes which are easier to do manually, and I think this is one
of them.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[James Holmes]

Yeah, that's what I was getting at (posted too hastily).

On 9/7/07, Raymond Camden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You don't have to get that complex. Just do
>
> 
>
> No need to copy it to a local variable.
>
> On 9/7/07, Qasim Rasheed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I believe this will work
> >
> > 
> > 
> >
> > 
> > .. your arguments here
> > 
> >
> > HTH
> >
> >
> > On 9/7/07, Andrew Grosset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Have you tried using cfinvoke?
> > >
> > > see where it says
> > >
> > > "This works but I'm not accessing the cfc in the application scope which
> > > rather defeats the purpose of writing it into the application scope."
> > >
> > > there is a cfinvoke example.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 

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RE: FCKEditor showing HTML content before fully loading in browser

[Dennis Powers]

>> We have a client complaining that, when they have a poor 
>> internet connection, they can see HTML source while the 
>> FCKEditor is loading

I ran into this same problem with TinyMCE as well. So I hid the field until
the page loads. Just put the JavaScript in you header wrap the FCKEditor
field in a dive set to hidden then call the javascript in the Body Onload
event.



function showMe(id) {
var elem = document.getElementById(id);
elem.style.visibility = "visible";
elem.style.display = "block";
}






 (FCKEditor field)





Best Regards,

Dennis Powers
UXB Internet - A website design and Hosting Company
690 Wolcott Road
P.O. Box 6029
Wolcott, CT  06716
Tel: (203)879-2844
http://www.uxbinternet.com/
http://www.uxb.net/ 




~|
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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Raymond Camden]

You don't have to get that complex. Just do



No need to copy it to a local variable.

On 9/7/07, Qasim Rasheed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I believe this will work
>
> 
> 
>
> 
> .. your arguments here
> 
>
> HTH
>
>
> On 9/7/07, Andrew Grosset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Have you tried using cfinvoke?
> >
> > see where it says
> >
> > "This works but I'm not accessing the cfc in the application scope which
> > rather defeats the purpose of writing it into the application scope."
> >
> > there is a cfinvoke example.
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Qasim Rasheed]

I believe this will work





.. your arguments here


HTH


On 9/7/07, Andrew Grosset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Have you tried using cfinvoke?
>
> see where it says
>
> "This works but I'm not accessing the cfc in the application scope which
> rather defeats the purpose of writing it into the application scope."
>
> there is a cfinvoke example.
>
> 

~|
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Re: BlogCFC

[Raymond Camden]

As a general FYI, I don't read CF-Talk every day. The best way to
reach me specifically is the Contact tab on my web site. Thanks for
covering for me Brian. :)

On 9/6/07, Eric Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks...I thought it did for some reason...
>
> Eric
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 7:53 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: BlogCFC
>
> It does not.
>
> On 9/6/07, Eric Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Got a question for you Ray...does BlogCFC make use of reactor?  I don't
> > remeber if it did or not.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 

~|
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RE: Error when defining var

[Chad Gray]

Thanks for the idea James, but I figured it out.

I set the ZJF in the "var" scope then on line 31 I try calling it with 
"variables" as the scope.

variables.ZJFdao.readZJF()

DUH!  The error is what threw me off.. it did not make a lot of sense at the 
time.

Thanks!

-Original Message-
From: James Holmes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 2:35 AM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Error when defining var

What happens if, at the top of the function, you put



instead?

On 9/7/07, chad gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am getting this error and the error only occours if i put a  ZJFdao = ""> in the function.  Any ideas?
>
> Element ZJFDAO is undefined in a Java object of type class 
> [Ljava.lang.String; referenced as
>
> The error occurred in 
> D:\Web\bervalent_WC\com\careyweb\servalent\misc\ZJF.cfc: line 31
>
> 29 : CreateObject("component","com.careyweb.servalent.misc.ZJFdao")>
> 30 :
> 31 :
> 32 :

-- 
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RE: CF8 Debugging

[Dave Watts]

> As of CF8, I think you can give another path in the tag, or 
> you can create a 'safe' CFIDE virtual dir, and use that in 
> all the virtual hosts (except the one that runs the CF admin.)

Actually, that's been around for a while, since CF 6 at least. In CF 7, you
can set the default location for /CFIDE/scripts in the CF Administrator
also.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!


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Re: charting solution for using with CF

[Tom McNeer]

Hi Rob,


I hope that that helps.


Well, it certainly gives me a direction -- mainly by your experience with
needing to replace and escape certain values. Thanks very much.

The errors I mentioned came when doing much the same thing you were trying.
The difference is that I saved the XML into a variable, which was then
output in the "style" attribute. This is necessary because of the need to
build the XML dynamically.

But I'll do some testing, using your suggestions. Meanwhile, if anyone has
any other XML experiences that might be relevant, I'm sure we'll all
appreciate it.




-- 
Thanks,

Tom

Tom McNeer
MediumCool
http://www.mediumcool.com
1735 Johnson Road NE
Atlanta, GA 30306
404.589.0560


~|
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scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today
ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps

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Re: charting solution for using with CF

[Rob Parkhill]

Tom,

I just copied the XML out of the WebChart3D program (not necessarily what
you are looking for, but perhaps good enough?) and I pasted it into the
Style attribute of cfchart.  After I had replaced all double quotes with
single quotes and removed one of the tags that was formatting the labels
with a bunch of 's I got it to work.  I was only replicating a bar
chart.  I don't think that I will even be able to use this approach for the
gauges that I want to use... maybe I'll have to create a SWF for that, but I
digress.  I had some 'success' in adding the XML directly to the style
attribute.

I hope that that helps.

Rob


On 9/7/07, Tom McNeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Warning -- this is going to be a bit of a thread hijacking.
>
> But it involves the XML discussed in this thread. And I have asked this
> question in this and other forums, with no responses. So please excuse my
> hoping that someone involved in this conversation might help.
>
> I have used XML stylesheets for charts and passed them through the "style"
> attribute in the  tag. But I now need to create a style
> specification (one not supported within the other attributes of cfchart)
> dynamically -- else I'd have to create many, many different stylesheets
> (think "international number formatting").
>
> The docs say that an XML string can be passed into the "style" attribute
> in
> place of a file path. But no matter how I produce/parse/handle the XML
> string, I can't get it to work. I get the equivalent of a "file not found"
> error, indicating that a path is always expected.
>
> Has anyone been able to successfully pass an XML string to this attribute?
> I
> have Googled, searched forum archives, and posted in numerous places, but
> have found no information.
>
> Again, I apologize for jumping into this thread. I'm just getting a little
> desperate for a solution.
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
> Tom McNeer
> MediumCool
> http://www.mediumcool.com
> 1735 Johnson Road NE
> Atlanta, GA 30306
> 404.589.0560
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: charting solution for using with CF

[Tom McNeer]

Warning -- this is going to be a bit of a thread hijacking.

But it involves the XML discussed in this thread. And I have asked this
question in this and other forums, with no responses. So please excuse my
hoping that someone involved in this conversation might help.

I have used XML stylesheets for charts and passed them through the "style"
attribute in the  tag. But I now need to create a style
specification (one not supported within the other attributes of cfchart)
dynamically -- else I'd have to create many, many different stylesheets
(think "international number formatting").

The docs say that an XML string can be passed into the "style" attribute in
place of a file path. But no matter how I produce/parse/handle the XML
string, I can't get it to work. I get the equivalent of a "file not found"
error, indicating that a path is always expected.

Has anyone been able to successfully pass an XML string to this attribute? I
have Googled, searched forum archives, and posted in numerous places, but
have found no information.

Again, I apologize for jumping into this thread. I'm just getting a little
desperate for a solution.



-- 
Thanks,

Tom

Tom McNeer
MediumCool
http://www.mediumcool.com
1735 Johnson Road NE
Atlanta, GA 30306
404.589.0560


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Re: sql sever 2000 XP cf8 question

[Paul Hastings]

Paul Ihrig wrote:
> but it seems a little hoekey..

that's *more* than a little hokey.

> any one else not want to make a odbc socket connection?

the ODBC bridge thing should be slower & will certainly mess up any unicode in 
your db.

got the right sql server user for your dsn? might try the SA account to verify. 
  try the machine name or IP instead of localhost?


~|
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RE: webservice

[Chad Gray]

Who died and made you forum master of questions asking?

Was that a properly formatted question?




> -Original Message-
> From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 9:52 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: webservice
> 
> You're missing the point. Don't just post to a forum saying nothing but
> "I'm
> trying to do X and I get error Y." That's not even a question, not to
> mention all of the relevant information that you have not provided.
> 
> http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
> 
> On 9/6/07, Chad Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > So how do I make this complexType in java?  I don't understand the
> error.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Brian Kotek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 4:19 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: webservice
> >
> > Ok.
> >
> > On 9/5/07, Chad Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I am trying to work with a web service and I am getting this error in
> > CF.
> > >
> > >
> > > Error converting CFML arguments to Java classes for web service
> > > invocation.
> > > Unable to create web service argument class [
> > > Lcom.canto.www._2005.cumulus.ws.types.Record;. Error:
> > > java.lang.InstantiationException: [
> > > Lcom.canto.www._2005.cumulus.ws.types.Record;. Often this is because
> the
> > > web service defines an abstract complexType as an input to an
> operation.
> > You
> > > must create an actual instance of this type in Java.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

~|
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Re: ColdFusion 8 CFIDE being dropped

[Justin T]

Correct. IIS has only one mapping and that is to the wwwroot. 

>I am going to assume that the IIS / Apache website details has NO virtual
>mapping to the /cfide directory.
>
>
>
>Andrew Scott


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sql sever 2000 XP cf8 question

[Paul Ihrig]

i was not able to make a connection to my localhost sql server in cf8 admin.
found a solution here
http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=934725&enterthread=y#3338947

but it seems a little hoekey..
any one else not want to make a odbc socket connection?

any info/advice would be great

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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[Andrew Grosset]

>Have you tried using cfinvoke?

see where it says 

"This works but I'm not accessing the cfc in the application scope which rather 
defeats the purpose of writing it into the application scope."

there is a cfinvoke example. 

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RE: charting solution for using with CF

[Dan G. Switzer, II]

Jim,

>On 9/6/07, Rob Parkhill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> So how does one leverage the webcharts design app?  it is a cool tool
>which I had no idea existed until yesterday.  I played around with it quite
>a bit and designed a couple of charts (actually the gauges are going to get
>me in good with the boss :)) I have tried using them as a JSP file etc. but
>keep getting an error in the display.

First, I'm 99% sure the gauge charts don't work in CFMX. CFMX only supports
a subset of the graphs you can actually build with Webcharts3D.

The easiest way to use the charts is to just use the Style XML to create
your own style definition that you use in CFMX. 

In CFMX's .\charting\styles directory, you'll notice a bunch of XML files.
One you create a charting style you like, you can just save a copy of your
style XML into this folder and give it a unique name. You'll then be able to
specify that style attribute of the  tag. You could also just
pass in the entire XML packet into the style attribute as well if you didn't
want to reference a static file.

-Dan


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Re: [CF-Dev] Search Function

[Tom Chiverton]

On Friday 07 Sep 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> At the moment the page is always search.cfm because the criteria arrives
> via a submitted form (Although the page will search if I add criteria to
> the URL
> i.e: search.cfm?area=10 etc as it is in fusebox)

Why not GET your form rather than POST ?

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Re: [ajaxcfc] Permission Denied Error Both on IE and Firefox

[Tom Chiverton]

On Thursday 06 Sep 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You cannot "go to" [EMAIL PROTECTED]  com as it is 
> not a
> web site url.

tom-linux:/opt # ping [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PING [EMAIL PROTECTED] (192.168.1.1) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from [EMAIL PROTECTED] (192.168.1.1): icmp_seq=1 ttl=127 time=5.98 ms

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 5.989/5.989/5.989/0.000 ms

:-)

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Re: Implications of no JVM loaded

[Tom Chiverton]

On Thursday 06 Sep 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Assuming the bare necessities are on the SDC (Flash Player, ActiveX and
> Javascript enabled, cookies, etc) and the JVM is not, are there ANY
> issues we need to be concerned about for our CF apps?

Nothing jumps out at me.

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Re: CF8 Debugging

[Tom Chiverton]

On Thursday 06 Sep 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What other functionality relies on the CFIDE mapping?  It it necessary for
> things like CFFORM?

I believe so.
As of CF8, I think you can give another path in the tag, or you can create 
a 'safe' CFIDE virtual dir, and use that in all the virtual hosts (except the 
one that runs the CF admin.). 

> Which also begs the question ­ is there some functionality that relies on
> the /cfdocs mapping? 

Not AFAIk.

-- 
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Re: Dynamic named CFC and method

[James Holmes]

Have you tried using cfinvoke?

On 9/7/07, Andrew Grosset <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a cfc in the application scope and I access it like so:
>
> 
>
> I would like to be able to pass in the cfc name (in this case "myImage") and 
> the method/function ("adateIm") dynamically.
>
> If I try this, I get an error: " A CFML variable name cannot end with a "." 
> character"
> 
> 
> 
>
> I also tried this but then it fails again as updateIm calls another function 
> within "aImage.cfc" and it can't see/access it:
>
> 
> 
>
> This works but I'm not accessing the cfc in the application scope which 
> rather defeats the purpose of writing it into the application scope.
>
> 
>
>  method = "#b#"
> returnVariable = "z"
> argumentCollection = "#arguments#">
>
> Is there a way to access the cfc and method stored in the application scope 
> and pass in the cfc name and method dynamically?
>
> Andrew
>
>
> 

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