Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
On Thursday 03 Mar 2005 16:43 pm, Michael Dinowitz wrote: I'm starting this topic to get peoples feelings on the subject. Do you use CFCs for UI? Do you have a good reason to do so? Do you see a reason to use Yup, we've got a bunch of stuff in com.bluefinger.gbb.gui. that performs the job of providing a decent widget set - all of them have draw() and drawJavascript() methods, so you can just drop a dateTimeChooser into a template and get a DHTML calender control, to take a trivial example. -- Tom Chiverton Advanced ColdFusion Programmer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197425 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
We have a lot of ui logic inside cfc's. After actions are done we need to inform javascript functions so these are called from cfc functions. Micha Schopman Project Manager Modern Media, Databankweg 12 M, 3821 AL Amersfoort Tel 033-4535377, Fax 033-4535388 KvK Amersfoort 39081679, Rabo 39.48.05.380 - Modern Media, Making You Interact Smarter. Onze oplossingen verbeteren de interactie met uw doelgroep. Wilt u meer omzet, lagere kosten of een beter service niveau? Voor meer informatie zie www.modernmedia.nl - ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197426 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
wow Dwayne, that's a lot of attributes. To me, it comes to a certain point where reusability just needs to give way to practicality. However, when looking at your code, I'm reminded of something a little familiar... ah yes, here it is, the ASP.NET textbox control list of members: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpref/html/frlrfsystemwebuiwebcontrolstextboxmemberstopic.asp Still though, how about a cfcomponent for the offices list gui object, then set a few variables and call a show() function? How about showDefault() and a few showCustom() variations like showCustomInOfficeDefault(). That would cut down on my complaint about aspnet's form controls, having large tags and seemingly endless attributes. obj.displayListOffices(12,6,4,http://blah;... ... ... ... [snip] ...) could possibly be cut down to listOffices.showCustomSuperDuper(prop1,prop2) If you like, your function below could still be in there, just kinda hidden and private. See, objects should simplify life for other systems, and if you can't, then build a simplified interface (a façade) for it Anyways, points to ponder for the weekend. -nathan strutz http://www.dopefly.com/ Dwayne Cole wrote: All the time! I use one cfc that returns a list of office locations. Simple enough right. Well this same cfc is used by 10 different sites and in each case the output is some what different. To me, a list of offices is a list of offices sure we may have different output versions for example a 2 column output, a list out put, and output with an image to the right or an output with an image to the left, but the list is still a list. So we use a single cfc and pass arguments that help us control the output. Here's the good thing, If we add another display version it's available to anyone of the sites. I use cfc not for objects but for extreme code reuse. With most of mysites, as much as 70 percent of the code is reused code, not copy and past but shared and reused. True, the functions have, in some case 50 attributes but to me its worth it. Here's sample of the function and arguments. cffunction name=displayListOffices hint=I return a list of offices cfargument name=id_office_cat cfargument name=id_firm cfargument name=itemsOut cfargument name=link cfargument name=linkback cfargument name=showListType cfargument name=showListTitle cfargument name=isShowDirectorySectTitle cfargument name=isNameLink cfargument name=isShowOfficeTitle cfargument name=isShowOfficePhone cfargument name=isShowOfficeContact cfargument name=isShowOfficeContactEmail cfargument name=isShowOfficeAddress default=false required=No cfargument name=isShowImage default=false required=No cfargument name=ItemStyle cfargument name=cssFormatDirSectionTitle cfargument name=styleFormatDirSectionTitle cfargument name=cssFormatTitle cfargument name=cssFormatBody cfargument name=FormatRowOdd default=background-color:##ff; cfargument name=FormatRowEven default=background-color:##ff; cfargument name=BlockFormat default=c5 required=No cfargument name=BlockStyle default= required=No cfargument name=BlockSizedefault=N required=No cfargument name=BlockColumnCount default=1 required=No cfargument name=BlockColumnWidth default= required=No cfargument name=isLinkdefault=True required=No cfargument name=Iconlink default=more... required=No!--- text or image to use and a read more link--- cfargument name=ImagePos default=Float:Right; margin-top:10px; margin-left:5px; required=No cfargument name=ImageWidth default= required=yes cfargument name=ImageHeight default= required=yes cfargument name=ImageCSS default=defaultImage -- Original Message -- From: COLLIE David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:47:16 - And if you don't agree with me, I'll take my Property p = new Property(Ball.Color(Red)) and Structure.Home.Go() That's one of the funniest things I've read all week!!! (It's been a hard one :) -- dc ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197547 Archives:
(OO) UI in CFCs
I'm starting this topic to get peoples feelings on the subject. Do you use CFCs for UI? Do you have a good reason to do so? Do you see a reason to use it (or not) vs. CFINCLUDEs or CFMODULEs? According to commonly discussed practices in the community (and in part of the Macromedia docs), UI elements should not go inside of CFCs. According to the Macromedia CFC examples, UI can go inside CFCs. According to the makeup of the CFCOMPONENT and CFFUNCTION tags, the ability exists explicitly (the output attribute). According to many of the OO books I've been reading, there's no reason for UI not to be within an object. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197272 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
It's a big no noone of the points of using CFCs is to seperate business logic from the presentation layer I know it's possiblebut it's also possible to put page header display code in Application.cfmbut we don't do it ;-) Ultimately it's up to the developer ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com.cfm/54 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197276 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
I don't think he means use UI and business together, but rather CFCs for the presentation. Mike? Ade -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 March 2005 16:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: (OO) UI in CFCs It's a big no noone of the points of using CFCs is to seperate business logic from the presentation layer I know it's possiblebut it's also possible to put page header display code in Application.cfmbut we don't do it ;-) Ultimately it's up to the developer ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com.cfm/54 ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197278 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
This is one of those topics where I see people making CFC's into something they aren't. Yeah, CFC's can be used to separate BL from UI blah blah blah. But that doesn't preclude the use for other things. I see so many emails floating around about OO design and how this rule keeps you from doing this or that or that you must follow this way of doing things. The plain fact is that CF is still procedural by nature with some OO abilities. I say use CFC's for whatever you want to use them for. You might just stumble on a really neat implementation. I'm currently in the middle of OOP Demystified. Excellent book so far. The author gives real world examples of creating objects. Then he also gives situations where it might not be the best course of action to use OO, but to do it procedurally. That was surprising from an OO book. He said that OO programmers will model objects after reality and sometimes, to keep to the hard and fast rules of OO design, they would 'bend' reality to fit the OO model. If you get a chance, check out the book. It starts out like all the other OO books I've read, but then after the definition chapters, he'll actually start using real world designs to illustrate his points. Marlon On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:43:09 -0500, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm starting this topic to get peoples feelings on the subject. Do you use CFCs for UI? Do you have a good reason to do so? Do you see a reason to use it (or not) vs. CFINCLUDEs or CFMODULEs? According to commonly discussed practices in the community (and in part of the Macromedia docs), UI elements should not go inside of CFCs. According to the Macromedia CFC examples, UI can go inside CFCs. According to the makeup of the CFCOMPONENT and CFFUNCTION tags, the ability exists explicitly (the output attribute). According to many of the OO books I've been reading, there's no reason for UI not to be within an object. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197281 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
Personally, I don't see a reason not to have a separate CFC just for UI elements that go on a page. Basically, you have a page which calls a BL (business logic) CFC for logic and a UI (user interface) CFC for specific UI elements that go on the page with the business logic. Take an average blog for example. Most have a calendar on the side. Why is this not inside a blogui.cfc file with other specific UI elements that are re-used. Yes, a custom tag can be built for each of the UI elements but on an average blog, there are 4 or 5 different small side elements. A single location for all of them would make sense rather than 4 or 5 different modules. At the moment I'm not using CFCs for UI but for UI elements less than 10 lines long, it's looking good. I don't think he means use UI and business together, but rather CFCs for the presentation. Mike? Ade -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 March 2005 16:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: (OO) UI in CFCs It's a big no noone of the points of using CFCs is to seperate business logic from the presentation layer I know it's possiblebut it's also possible to put page header display code in Application.cfmbut we don't do it ;-) Ultimately it's up to the developer ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com.cfm/54 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197282 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
Thus far I have only seen one example where someone was using a CFC for the UI. I never got to see the actual code but his explanation made it sound like a good chunk of the business logic was in other CFCs and then he had a set of CFCs for the UI portion. Without really seeing the code, I always had a hard time seeing how this approach was any better or worse than just have a custom tag for that portion of his UI. That example though was not just one CFC to display the information, it used 3 or 4 I think to build it all up.What he was displaying was exactly what we do here but with custom tags and we probably use the same amount of tags as he was using CFCs. On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:09:57 -0500, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't see a reason not to have a separate CFC just for UI elements that go on a page. Basically, you have a page which calls a BL (business logic) CFC for logic and a UI (user interface) CFC for specific UI elements that go on the page with the business logic. Take an average blog for example. Most have a calendar on the side. Why is this not inside a blogui.cfc file with other specific UI elements that are re-used. Yes, a custom tag can be built for each of the UI elements but on an average blog, there are 4 or 5 different small side elements. A single location for all of them would make sense rather than 4 or 5 different modules. At the moment I'm not using CFCs for UI but for UI elements less than 10 lines long, it's looking good. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197286 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't see a reason not to have a separate CFC just for UI elements that go on a page. we have talked about his many times in our shop. the main advantage that we have come up with is giving UI an interface of sorts. It would allow you to define what is required for the UI element. This helps a lot when you are editing a display and need to know what variables are available to you. toru ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197287 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
Someone I work with uses CFCs for UI. For instance, something he did is make a CFC that runs a query and returns a recordset. He then passes the recordset to a UI CFC and it formats the results in a datagrid fashion. I believe the default action is to take the column names and make them table headers with a specific look and sorting functionality and then display the data in cells below the header. There's also functionality to map a display name to a column and also to limit which columns are displayed. This is used on a reporting site that uses these datagrid displays all over. So now, he can control the UI on the majority of the site within 1 simple CFC. I haven't used it yet or looked into it at great length, but in theory it sounds like a pretty good idea. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:21 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: (OO) UI in CFCs Thus far I have only seen one example where someone was using a CFC for the UI. I never got to see the actual code but his explanation made it sound like a good chunk of the business logic was in other CFCs and then he had a set of CFCs for the UI portion. Without really seeing the code, I always had a hard time seeing how this approach was any better or worse than just have a custom tag for that portion of his UI. That example though was not just one CFC to display the information, it used 3 or 4 I think to build it all up.What he was displaying was exactly what we do here but with custom tags and we probably use the same amount of tags as he was using CFCs. On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:09:57 -0500, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I don't see a reason not to have a separate CFC just for UI elements that go on a page. Basically, you have a page which calls a BL (business logic) CFC for logic and a UI (user interface) CFC for specific UI elements that go on the page with the business logic. Take an average blog for example. Most have a calendar on the side. Why is this not inside a blogui.cfc file with other specific UI elements that are re-used. Yes, a custom tag can be built for each of the UI elements but on an average blog, there are 4 or 5 different small side elements. A single location for all of them would make sense rather than 4 or 5 different modules. At the moment I'm not using CFCs for UI but for UI elements less than 10 lines long, it's looking good. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197288 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
A datagrid as you refered to it is exactly the example I am thinking of. We just use custom tags here to do what you are describing. Now our system was developed long before CFCs were even available. I could see how maybe it would be easier using some Set/Get functions over potentially a lot of attributes. Although we actually do not run into a problem with a lot of attributes as is. I have been wanting to redo a form builder tag we have here for awhile and have often debated if I would benifit any over doing it in a CFC instead. On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:28:04 -0500, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone I work with uses CFCs for UI. For instance, something he did is make a CFC that runs a query and returns a recordset. He then passes the recordset to a UI CFC and it formats the results in a datagrid fashion. I believe the default action is to take the column names and make them table headers with a specific look and sorting functionality and then display the data in cells below the header. There's also functionality to map a display name to a column and also to limit which columns are displayed. This is used on a reporting site that uses these datagrid displays all over. So now, he can control the UI on the majority of the site within 1 simple CFC. I haven't used it yet or looked into it at great length, but in theory it sounds like a pretty good idea. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197290 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
Someone I work with uses CFCs for UI. For instance, something he did is make a CFC that runs a query and returns a recordset. He then passes the recordset to a UI CFC and it formats the results in a datagrid fashion. We do something similar. We have a set of report-building CFCs where you can populate paragraphs of text and arrays of data, then choose to (re-)display the report as HTML, RTF, PDF or CSV, with the arrays shown as tables or charts. Some kind of object-oriented approach is ideal for this. I can't see any sense in the assertion that you shouldn't use CFCs for UI. Why on earth not? In fact, in my experience the object-oriented approach is more useful for UI than it is for business data processing - although of course this is far more true when you're programming an interactive stateful environment (ActionScript, JavaScript etc). Nick ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197292 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
Yeah, my main intrigue with it is that you could have different mini-functions within the CFC that could do formatting and arranging and stuff and could be used for a lot of data display. That way, even more than with a custom tag, you could reuse the CFC for all kinds of displays and such. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer -Original Message- From: Aaron Rouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: (OO) UI in CFCs A datagrid as you refered to it is exactly the example I am thinking of. We just use custom tags here to do what you are describing. Now our system was developed long before CFCs were even available. I could see how maybe it would be easier using some Set/Get functions over potentially a lot of attributes. Although we actually do not run into a problem with a lot of attributes as is. I have been wanting to redo a form builder tag we have here for awhile and have often debated if I would benifit any over doing it in a CFC instead. On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:28:04 -0500, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone I work with uses CFCs for UI. For instance, something he did is make a CFC that runs a query and returns a recordset. He then passes the recordset to a UI CFC and it formats the results in a datagrid fashion. I believe the default action is to take the column names and make them table headers with a specific look and sorting functionality and then display the data in cells below the header. There's also functionality to map a display name to a column and also to limit which columns are displayed. This is used on a reporting site that uses these datagrid displays all over. So now, he can control the UI on the majority of the site within 1 simple CFC. I haven't used it yet or looked into it at great length, but in theory it sounds like a pretty good idea. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197294 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
For ColdFusion, I prefer presentation elements (we are talking about HTML/XHTML/XML for the most part, right?) to be in tags. The main reasons are simple. I'd rather see: ui:navdiv a href=homehome/a /ui:navdiv Than cfsavecontent variable=myvar a href=homehome/a /cfsavecontent cfset WriteOutput(obj.showNavDiv(myvar)) Or variations along those lines. The tag based solution feels like a natural fit alongside the tag based output for the most part, and it seem like a cleaner method to wrap with tags than if you are using CFCs, and finally, it appears that you will have no choice on using tags for UI, then it makes sense to me to always use tags for UI, for consistency sake. - Calvin -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:10 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: (OO) UI in CFCs Personally, I don't see a reason not to have a separate CFC just for UI elements that go on a page. Basically, you have a page which calls a BL (business logic) CFC for logic and a UI (user interface) CFC for specific UI elements that go on the page with the business logic. Take an average blog for example. Most have a calendar on the side. Why is this not inside a blogui.cfc file with other specific UI elements that are re-used. Yes, a custom tag can be built for each of the UI elements but on an average blog, there are 4 or 5 different small side elements. A single location for all of them would make sense rather than 4 or 5 different modules. At the moment I'm not using CFCs for UI but for UI elements less than 10 lines long, it's looking good. I don't think he means use UI and business together, but rather CFCs for the presentation. Mike? Ade -Original Message- From: Bryan Stevenson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 March 2005 16:52 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: (OO) UI in CFCs It's a big no noone of the points of using CFCs is to seperate business logic from the presentation layer I know it's possiblebut it's also possible to put page header display code in Application.cfmbut we don't do it ;-) Ultimately it's up to the developer ;-) Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com.cfm/54 ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197296 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
Our tags handle a lot of this. They are however fed a single file that is nothing more than a big switch case. You set the cases values to various things based upon what and how you want the datagrid to be displayed. The more I think about it from a coding(code within custom tag or CFC, not code that implements it) standpoint the CFC probably would be a lot easier to follow. On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 12:51:14 -0500, Burns, John D [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, my main intrigue with it is that you could have different mini-functions within the CFC that could do formatting and arranging and stuff and could be used for a lot of data display. That way, even more than with a custom tag, you could reuse the CFC for all kinds of displays and such. John Burns Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer Wyle Laboratories, Inc. | Web Developer ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197297 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
Yes, I use CFCs for presentation of content, but only in situations where it makes sense. For simple web pages, absolutely not, there's no point. My main use of CFC is, for example, in a custom content management system where almost every view is the same and only a query resultset changes what content appears in the view. Just simple components such as PageHeader, QueryTable, QueryList, PersistentSructForm, InterfaceBreadcrumb, etc... They have minimal, but consistent HTML and/or CSS formatting applied to them every time. When creating hundreds of pages, it adds up. Would custom tags perform the same function? Of course. However, when creating something of significant size, with many hands touching it, I like to keep the elements used in development to a minimum. Again, as a few people have mentioned, whatever flavor you like best is what you should be eating. Like I've said to many people: it's a ColdFusion Component, not a ColdFusion Business Logic Container, or ColdFusion Transaction Processor. You can make a component out of anything you like. And if you don't agree with me, I'll take my Property p = new Property(Ball.Color(Red)) and Structure.Home.Go() - Steve -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:43 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: (OO) UI in CFCs I'm starting this topic to get peoples feelings on the subject. Do you use CFCs for UI? Do you have a good reason to do so? Do you see a reason to use it (or not) vs. CFINCLUDEs or CFMODULEs? According to commonly discussed practices in the community (and in part of the Macromedia docs), UI elements should not go inside of CFCs. According to the Macromedia CFC examples, UI can go inside CFCs. According to the makeup of the CFCOMPONENT and CFFUNCTION tags, the ability exists explicitly (the output attribute). According to many of the OO books I've been reading, there's no reason for UI not to be within an object. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197301 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
We use CFC's to _return_ UI elements. In other words, we don't use output=true but we do use CFC's to return data that generates output. For example, we have a contentserver CFC. This CFC returns images and files that are outside of the webroot. We also have a template CFC for one specific template that gets used over and over from both the secure and non-secure sides of our server. - Original Message - From: Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: RE: (OO) UI in CFCs Personally, I don't see a reason not to have a separate CFC just for UI elements that go on a page. Basically, you have a page which calls a BL (business logic) CFC for logic and a UI (user interface) CFC for specific UI elements that go on the page with the business logic. Take an average blog for example. Most have a calendar on the side. Why is this not inside a blogui.cfc file with other specific UI elements that are re-used. Yes, a custom tag can be built for each of the UI elements but on an average blog, there are 4 or 5 different small side elements. A single location for all of them would make sense rather than 4 or 5 different modules. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197305 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
Nick, I am not sure that previous discussions where about CFC's designed specifically for UI, but for CFC's that are instances of objects. -Original Message- From: Nick de Voil I can't see any sense in the assertion that you shouldn't use CFCs for UI. Why on earth not? ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197306 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
And if you don't agree with me, I'll take my Property p = new Property(Ball.Color(Red)) and Structure.Home.Go() That's one of the funniest things I've read all week!!! (It's been a hard one :) -- dc ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197319 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
Beyond what's already been said, I would say that CFC's are also a reasonable way to encapsulate GUI functionality that's not already built in to HTML like tabsets, related select boxes, etc... There are of course custom tags that do the same thing, but imo don't have the same flexibility. The onTap framework also includes a good deal of this sort of thing, although they're not actually using CFC's, just consistently formatted structures and a slew of functions in 3 separate libraries. I obviously don't think CFC's are absolutely necessary for a good implementation of these sorts of things -- the libraries were originally designed for compatibility with CF5 although more recent versions include an XML syntax which makes them easier to grasp for programmers who are accustomed to templated display, and obviously since it uses XML extensively this requires CFMX to drive it. The framework includes a fair amount of extra CFC features, most notably pathing and dynamic-inheritance features which make it possible to set a single variable within the application and have _all_ CFC's in the application use the specified variable as the root path for their discovery (and all inheritance then also uses these paths, which is not natively available with CF), which helps to resolve issues related to CFC's having been all written to work under a specific directory, as was the case with early versions of Mach-II where initially the framework had to be directly under the web root or it had to have a mach-ii mapping specifically in order to function, preventing multiple instances of the framework on a single CF Server instance. Iirc they've changed this now, although I can't speak to the method. In general I think the display layer in applications gets a bad rap. Many of the programmers I've met seem to consider it like a second-class citizen or a red-headed step-child as the saying goes. They abhore the idea of working on anything that deals with the display for more than a moment because I guess that smacks of actually caring what users think and many of us have a strange notion that users are stupid people who should be seen and not heard. But I digress... I think display is at _least_ as important as the model of an application because it's all the client ever sees in most cases and in general our most effective tool for communciating with our clients, for dazzling them and for impressing on them the value of our work, which ultimately is what helps us get paid and more importantly get repeat business that pays. To that end, if a component is useful for encapsulating and reusing business-logic, then I would say that a component might be equally useful for encapsulating and reusing display-logic. YMMV This article might give you some ideas about how you might want to use CFC's for encapsulating display: http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=48229DE=1 and for those who haven't seen it, here's a recent introductory presentation to the onTap framework: http://www.fusiontap.com/demo/powerontap.htm Not it's permanent home -- I'm accumulating feedback to improve the presentation and will be placing it in the articles section of the framework site once I've tidied it up some. :) s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://macromedia.breezecentral.com/p49777853/ http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=48229DE=1 http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=44477DE=1 http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45569DE=1 http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=48229DE=1 http://www.fusiontap.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197366 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
I've got one app that uses what amounts to an embedded UDF for generating select boxes, lists of links, and/or text lists (rather like valuelist()) for the UI. For good or ill, at the moment it's embedded in a business object (it's due to be refactored) because it seemed appropriate at the time. There are two methods for generating UI elements, one is called mList (for Managed List - my own internal convention) and it outputs either select/options, HTML anchor tags, or a text-only list of the DB column relevant to that business object. It's parameterized as follows: cfargument name=type default=text hint=required to give type of content generated cfargument name=url default= hint=required if type=url in order to generate links cfargument name=name default= hint=reqired if type=select to give select element a name property cfargument name=staff_id default= hint=optional, will generate a list for specificed staff_id cfargument name=catch_id default= hint=optional, passed-in company_id to mark selected when type=select cfargument name=jump type=boolean default=false hint=option, generates a Go button and JS function for jump-style menu cfargument name=style type=string default= hint=optional - supplies a style sheet class selector to include for URL or Select cfargument name=startempty default=false type=boolean hint=optional - adds a blank option to start of select It works fantastic, and I'm using it for probably 5 separate objects on innumerable screens in the application. Also, there's xList (x=child object, i.e. userList(), companyList(), etc.) that works the opposite of mList. If mList lists all the companies in tbl_company in any of the 3 formats, then xList lists all the employees for company_id in tbl_user. I'm sure there's a more unified, encapsulated, cohesive, rational, sensible, and altruistic way to do this... but it works so well. The way I implemented it, I generally use cfinvoke to pull it into my forms unless I've got an active instance of the relevant object in which case I'll just do objName.mList(parm1, parm2, parm3)... BUT... for an administrative page for adding new/editing existing employees in the system (which supports multiple employers), I'll do this: (at top) user = createObject(component,cfc.user).init(310,true) // 310 = user_id in DB, true means INIT uses CFRETURN to send instance back to caller much more HTML ... cfinvoke component=cfc.company method=mList catch_id=#user.getUserId()# ... even more HTML ... There's more parameters to pass in, but that's the gist of how it works. Now, I know, I shouldn't have UI generators in the business object. Or should I? From one perspective, no. UI and BL must be strictly separate. But... but... see... well, if a business object is meant to maintain and manage the business objects in the model, then how is it not acceptable for it to fetch data and generate output relevant to the BO for which it is reponsible? It's still being controlled by the controller, it's still PART OF the model, and I'm still not embedding any logic IN the page. So my question is this: What real, explicable reason to I have for NOT putting this in a BO... what's the rationale for creating separate model objects for logic and for UI generation even though the BO is technically responsible for managing access to the data in question? I'm not expressing this very well, so I hope someone else understands well enough to either answer or restate. If not, I'll try again later. Laterz, J On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:43:09 -0500, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm starting this topic to get peoples feelings on the subject. Do you use CFCs for UI? Do you have a good reason to do so? Do you see a reason to use it (or not) vs. CFINCLUDEs or CFMODULEs? According to commonly discussed practices in the community (and in part of the Macromedia docs), UI elements should not go inside of CFCs. According to the Macromedia CFC examples, UI can go inside CFCs. According to the makeup of the CFCOMPONENT and CFFUNCTION tags, the ability exists explicitly (the output attribute). According to many of the OO books I've been reading, there's no reason for UI not to be within an object. -- Continuum Media Group LLC Burnsville, MN 55337 http://www.web-relevant.com http://cfobjective.neo.servequake.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197393 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support:
Re: (OO) UI in CFCs
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 11:43:09 -0500, Michael Dinowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm starting this topic to get peoples feelings on the subject. Do you use CFCs for UI? Do you have a good reason to do so? Do you see a reason to use it (or not) vs. CFINCLUDEs or CFMODULEs? Anyone who uses Mach II is using CFCs to generate their UI whether they realize it or not. Mach II has a CFC dedicated to rendering a view (and it cfincludes the view .cfm page). It also manages the optional use of cfsavecontent to place generated output in content variables. According to commonly discussed practices in the community (and in part of the Macromedia docs), UI elements should not go inside of CFCs. According to the Macromedia CFC examples, UI can go inside CFCs. According to the makeup of the CFCOMPONENT and CFFUNCTION tags, the ability exists explicitly (the output attribute). According to many of the OO books I've been reading, there's no reason for UI not to be within an object. Most typical OO systems have a UI that is built with objects that you interact with to render your data. In those systems, the 'system' maintains the UI model and your application simply calls methods on it - and sometimes registers objects that are invoked for UI operations. That model doesn't apply as well to web apps - you get a request, you generate HTML, you spit it back out. A Servlet app is OO and calls methods to write HTML to the response object but a JSP app hides that and gives the impression of rendering HTML directly. CFML follows the same model. The idea that CFCs shouldn't generate HTML is mostly based on the separation of business logic and presentation - so if you have pure presentation CFCs that contain no business logic, you're not breaking any rules. But usually it's just easier to recommend that folks use custom tags and CFML pages for UI and CFCs for model stuff. Because of ColdFusion's page-based underpinnings, which hides the real Servlet model underneath, it can be pretty ugly to work with CFCs for general UI generation - simple CFML pages and custom tags tend to be easier to work with for UI generation. -- Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/ Team Fusebox -- http://www.fusebox.org/ Breeze Me! -- http://www.corfield.org/breezeme Got Gmail? -- I have 49, yes 49, invites to give away! If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197395 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: (OO) UI in CFCs
All the time! I use one cfc that returns a list of office locations. Simple enough right. Well this same cfc is used by 10 different sites and in each case the output is some what different. To me, a list of offices is a list of offices sure we may have different output versions for example a 2 column output, a list out put, and output with an image to the right or an output with an image to the left, but the list is still a list. So we use a single cfc and pass arguments that help us control the output. Here's the good thing, If we add another display version it's available to anyone of the sites. I use cfc not for objects but for extreme code reuse. With most of mysites, as much as 70 percent of the code is reused code, not copy and past but shared and reused. True, the functions have, in some case 50 attributes but to me its worth it. Here's sample of the function and arguments. cffunction name=displayListOffices hint=I return a list of offices cfargument name=id_office_cat cfargument name=id_firm cfargument name=itemsOut cfargument name=link cfargument name=linkback cfargument name=showListType cfargument name=showListTitle cfargument name=isShowDirectorySectTitle cfargument name=isNameLink cfargument name=isShowOfficeTitle cfargument name=isShowOfficePhone cfargument name=isShowOfficeContact cfargument name=isShowOfficeContactEmail cfargument name=isShowOfficeAddress default=false required=No cfargument name=isShowImage default=false required=No cfargument name=ItemStyle cfargument name=cssFormatDirSectionTitle cfargument name=styleFormatDirSectionTitle cfargument name=cssFormatTitle cfargument name=cssFormatBody cfargument name=FormatRowOdd default=background-color:##ff; cfargument name=FormatRowEven default=background-color:##ff; cfargument name=BlockFormat default=c5 required=No cfargument name=BlockStyle default= required=No cfargument name=BlockSizedefault=N required=No cfargument name=BlockColumnCount default=1 required=No cfargument name=BlockColumnWidth default= required=No cfargument name=isLinkdefault=True required=No cfargument name=Iconlink default=more... required=No!--- text or image to use and a read more link--- cfargument name=ImagePos default=Float:Right; margin-top:10px; margin-left:5px; required=No cfargument name=ImageWidth default= required=yes cfargument name=ImageHeight default= required=yes cfargument name=ImageCSS default=defaultImage -- Original Message -- From: COLLIE David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 19:47:16 - And if you don't agree with me, I'll take my Property p = new Property(Ball.Color(Red)) and Structure.Home.Go() That's one of the funniest things I've read all week!!! (It's been a hard one :) -- dc ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:197402 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
