Re: [OT] transparent source control
On 9/8/05, Anthony Prato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am pretty set on subversion already, my problem's been getting the > developers to break their bad habits. The process here seems to be > someone talks about a bug or something they don't like. A programmer > jumps on it with very little planning and starts coding. They think it > works, through it into production. I can't tell you how bad my stomach > turns when they say "lets just see what breaks" when referring to > putting things in production. And unfortunately these habits aren't > yet seen as problems by management either. I know its not pretty but I > need something for damage control until I can get a handle on things > here. > One possible strategy is to pitch the management on implementing a build system -- automating deployments with Ant for example. It's pretty trivial to set up those Ant scripts and there's easy-to-understand benefits "deploy in moments", "quickly create a bug fix release", etc. If they buy in, then you can add the "oh, the code needs to be in source control" and the problem can fix itself. A similar approach is to put in continuous build tools (which it sounds like you really need if that's how dev works in this group), like CruiseControl for example. That makes the dev folks see immediately how changes affected the site and also requires source control. Basically, I'm suggesting that you might be able to find a development practice to implement that *can* get buyin that just happens to requires using source control. I've found that can be more successful than simply saying "Thou shalt use source control" -- John Paul Ashenfelter CTO/Transitionpoint (blog) http://www.ashenfelter.com (email) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217779 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: [OT] transparent source control
I whole heartedly go with Subversion and just force people to use it. Trust me - people will use it if you catch them put in buggy untested code into production. Offer a $100 gift certificate for the person with the lease amount of demerit points after two months (use a public whiteboard or something). Just a thought... I'm planning on writing a tutorial on getting SVN running on Apache, setting up your first repository, setting up authentication/authorization and using it with Subeclipse. Leave a vote for it as a comment at: http://blog.maestropublishing.com/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=C8AB0D8A-AD99-75CD-4EA66322B5A40871 I'll leave a comment when the tutorial is finished and where the blog post of it is. Best, ...Peter Maestro Publishing ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217690 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: [OT] transparent source control
sounds familiar, where do you work? hehe! Yeah, after using CVS on my own ( well I cajoled maybe 2 others after a bit) within a team of non-cvs users for the past two years I finanlly just said everyone has to use it. Being the production owner gave me some leverage. "Use CVS or your code does not go to production" I said. :) I set them up with TortoiseCVS. It is uber simple to use. Only thing that wil lbe difficult is branching/merging...another day for that. DK On 9/8/05, Anthony Prato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am pretty set on subversion already, my problem's been getting the > developers to break their bad habits. The process here seems to be > someone talks about a bug or something they don't like. A programmer > jumps on it with very little planning and starts coding. They think it > works, through it into production. I can't tell you how bad my stomach > turns when they say "lets just see what breaks" when referring to > putting things in production. And unfortunately these habits aren't > yet seen as problems by management either. I know its not pretty but I > need something for damage control until I can get a handle on things > here. > > :( > > > > On 9/8/05, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You can set up Subversion with Apache and access it over webDAV, which > > is really slick. Best of all, you can use both Subversion clients > > (that understand the SVN extensions to webDAV), and normal webDAV > > clients. For normal clients, Subversion will just do a commit for any > > files saved to the folders, giving entirely transparent versioning. > > If you've got a Subversion client, then you can do all the other stuff > > like pull revision histories. > > > > It's really a very elegant setup; the Subversion guys definitely got > > their stuff together. > > > > cheers, > > barneyb > > > > On 9/8/05, Anthony Prato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I was hoping to hear what the list thinks on an issue I have. > > > I'm trying to make a number of changes at the place I've been working > > > for a few months. The small group of programmers has a disorganized > > > development process. I'm trying to work in some standard source > > > control but until that point I want to at least be able to, when > > > tracking bugs, to find out what changes where made to a file and when. > > > Backups somewhat help but what would be really nice is, like source > > > control, if I could look at the revision history for a single file. Is > > > there some sort of way to point a utility at a directory and have it > > > automatically check in files as they change on the server? (I know, > > > event gateways, but we don't have enterprise) The easier to install > > > and config the better. > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217661 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: [OT] transparent source control
You could hack a solution together based on batch files / shell scripts and the at / cron commands for scheduling. What you will gain is a visibility into what changed and when, but not why or by who. It's a matter of opinion, but i'd say that glass is very much half full. /t >I was hoping to hear what the list thinks on an issue I have. >I'm trying to make a number of changes at the place I've been working >for a few months. The small group of programmers has a disorganized >development process. I'm trying to work in some standard source >control but until that point I want to at least be able to, when >tracking bugs, to find out what changes where made to a file and when. >Backups somewhat help but what would be really nice is, like source >control, if I could look at the revision history for a single file. Is >there some sort of way to point a utility at a directory and have it >automatically check in files as they change on the server? (I know, >event gateways, but we don't have enterprise) The easier to install >and config the better. > >Anthony ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217669 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: [OT] transparent source control
I am pretty set on subversion already, my problem's been getting the developers to break their bad habits. The process here seems to be someone talks about a bug or something they don't like. A programmer jumps on it with very little planning and starts coding. They think it works, through it into production. I can't tell you how bad my stomach turns when they say "lets just see what breaks" when referring to putting things in production. And unfortunately these habits aren't yet seen as problems by management either. I know its not pretty but I need something for damage control until I can get a handle on things here. :( On 9/8/05, Barney Boisvert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You can set up Subversion with Apache and access it over webDAV, which > is really slick. Best of all, you can use both Subversion clients > (that understand the SVN extensions to webDAV), and normal webDAV > clients. For normal clients, Subversion will just do a commit for any > files saved to the folders, giving entirely transparent versioning. > If you've got a Subversion client, then you can do all the other stuff > like pull revision histories. > > It's really a very elegant setup; the Subversion guys definitely got > their stuff together. > > cheers, > barneyb > > On 9/8/05, Anthony Prato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I was hoping to hear what the list thinks on an issue I have. > > I'm trying to make a number of changes at the place I've been working > > for a few months. The small group of programmers has a disorganized > > development process. I'm trying to work in some standard source > > control but until that point I want to at least be able to, when > > tracking bugs, to find out what changes where made to a file and when. > > Backups somewhat help but what would be really nice is, like source > > control, if I could look at the revision history for a single file. Is > > there some sort of way to point a utility at a directory and have it > > automatically check in files as they change on the server? (I know, > > event gateways, but we don't have enterprise) The easier to install > > and config the better. > > > > Anthony > > > > > > ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217659 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: [OT] transparent source control
You can set up Subversion with Apache and access it over webDAV, which is really slick. Best of all, you can use both Subversion clients (that understand the SVN extensions to webDAV), and normal webDAV clients. For normal clients, Subversion will just do a commit for any files saved to the folders, giving entirely transparent versioning. If you've got a Subversion client, then you can do all the other stuff like pull revision histories. It's really a very elegant setup; the Subversion guys definitely got their stuff together. cheers, barneyb On 9/8/05, Anthony Prato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was hoping to hear what the list thinks on an issue I have. > I'm trying to make a number of changes at the place I've been working > for a few months. The small group of programmers has a disorganized > development process. I'm trying to work in some standard source > control but until that point I want to at least be able to, when > tracking bugs, to find out what changes where made to a file and when. > Backups somewhat help but what would be really nice is, like source > control, if I could look at the revision history for a single file. Is > there some sort of way to point a utility at a directory and have it > automatically check in files as they change on the server? (I know, > event gateways, but we don't have enterprise) The easier to install > and config the better. > > Anthony > > ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217648 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: [OT] transparent source control
I don't think you would necessarily want that, even if you could have it. I save a file to disk many more times than I check it out and check it in. With automatic check-in on save, you could end up with hundreds of versions of a file very quickly. IMHO you are better off going straight to version control. Lots of people around here of late seem to like Subversion. I haven't used it myself yet (I am still using MS Visual Source Safe) but it gets a lot of good reviews, and it can now be integrated with CFEclipse, I believe. >I was hoping to hear what the list thinks on an issue I have. >I'm trying to make a number of changes at the place I've been working >for a few months. The small group of programmers has a disorganized >development process. I'm trying to work in some standard source >control but until that point I want to at least be able to, when >tracking bugs, to find out what changes where made to a file and when. >Backups somewhat help but what would be really nice is, like source >control, if I could look at the revision history for a single file. Is >there some sort of way to point a utility at a directory and have it >automatically check in files as they change on the server? (I know, >event gateways, but we don't have enterprise) The easier to install >and config the better. > >Anthony ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217642 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
[OT] transparent source control
I was hoping to hear what the list thinks on an issue I have. I'm trying to make a number of changes at the place I've been working for a few months. The small group of programmers has a disorganized development process. I'm trying to work in some standard source control but until that point I want to at least be able to, when tracking bugs, to find out what changes where made to a file and when. Backups somewhat help but what would be really nice is, like source control, if I could look at the revision history for a single file. Is there some sort of way to point a utility at a directory and have it automatically check in files as they change on the server? (I know, event gateways, but we don't have enterprise) The easier to install and config the better. Anthony ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217640 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
