Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
LOL, I am obviously starting to wonder now :-) On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 3:14 AM, Aaron Rouse wrote: > > Are you sure he really was a .NET developer? Like I said we have ran into > huge issues with "fudging" of skillsets and why we had to develop extensive > testing methods for anyone going onto our Java team, so we can weed out the > just plain fakes. But also like I said we still have to deal with the other > issue of the huge turn around over there. Seems like people have zero > loyalty for the company they work for and will leave at the drop of the hat > to go to another company paying more. > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Russ Michaels wrote: > >> >> So in less than 1 hour, I did what he was unable to do in 1 week, and >> he was a .NET developer where as I have ZERO .NET knowledge, never >> written a single line of .net code in my life. >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Aaron Rouse >> wrote: >> > >> > I have worked with people from India who spoke better English than I do >> and >> > outside Sarcasm that is the only language I know. They were a LOT >> cheaper >> > than me and reading the rest of this thread I see i actually charge a >> little >> > below the low side of what people consider normal rates. In some cases I >> > was taking over projects from them and in other cases they were taking >> > projects over from me. I also have dealt with a lot of very crummy made >> > applications out of the India region but to be fair I have dealt with my >> > fair share of crummy made ones that were made in the States too. >> > >> > The big issue we have ran into though is the rather extreme "fudging" of >> > skillsets from people in India. For our Java team we had to develop and >> > entire process for validating their skillsets but then the next problem >> > comes in and that is the huge turnover rates over in India. >> > >> > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347677 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Are you sure he really was a .NET developer? Like I said we have ran into huge issues with "fudging" of skillsets and why we had to develop extensive testing methods for anyone going onto our Java team, so we can weed out the just plain fakes. But also like I said we still have to deal with the other issue of the huge turn around over there. Seems like people have zero loyalty for the company they work for and will leave at the drop of the hat to go to another company paying more. On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Russ Michaels wrote: > > So in less than 1 hour, I did what he was unable to do in 1 week, and > he was a .NET developer where as I have ZERO .NET knowledge, never > written a single line of .net code in my life. > > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Aaron Rouse > wrote: > > > > I have worked with people from India who spoke better English than I do > and > > outside Sarcasm that is the only language I know. They were a LOT > cheaper > > than me and reading the rest of this thread I see i actually charge a > little > > below the low side of what people consider normal rates. In some cases I > > was taking over projects from them and in other cases they were taking > > projects over from me. I also have dealt with a lot of very crummy made > > applications out of the India region but to be fair I have dealt with my > > fair share of crummy made ones that were made in the States too. > > > > The big issue we have ran into though is the rather extreme "fudging" of > > skillsets from people in India. For our Java team we had to develop and > > entire process for validating their skillsets but then the next problem > > comes in and that is the huge turnover rates over in India. > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347676 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Do I? On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Larry Lyons wrote: > > >Morality. > > > > Ethics you mean. > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347675 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
To be fair, someone in the US is as likely to rip you off as someone in India. andy -Original Message- From: Jenny Gavin-Wear [mailto:jenn...@fasttrackonline.co.uk] Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 4:41 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously? A little while ago a Mumbian showed me a site as an example of his design. Even the directors comments on one page were still there, they had just changed the name of the director. When I looked at the page source it had the details of a company in the USA. On googling the company name I found the exact same site, developed by a guy in the USA. I called the USA company who were shocked to discover their site had been completely ripped off. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2623 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347673 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
that was the situation in my case, they are a uk based company with British project managers with developers in India. Really didn't make any difference. The PM made just as many mistakes as the developer. On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:00 PM, Casey Dougall wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Jenny Gavin-Wear < > jenn...@fasttrackonline.co.uk> wrote: > >> A little while ago a Mumbian showed me a site as an example of his design. >> Even the directors comments on one page were still there, they had just >> changed the name of the director. >> >> When I looked at the page source it had the details of a company in the >> USA. >> >> On googling the company name I found the exact same site, developed by a >> guy >> in the USA. >> >> I called the USA company who were shocked to discover their site had been >> completely ripped off. >> >> > > All reputable firms I've heard of have representation in USA. > > If you live in the USA, deal with someone in the USA, it's their > responsibility to back up the work and legal fees. They could have a firm in > India or China doing the work for them but the firm in USA is held > responsible if you need to take them to court. > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347665 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 5:40 PM, Jenny Gavin-Wear < jenn...@fasttrackonline.co.uk> wrote: > A little while ago a Mumbian showed me a site as an example of his design. > Even the directors comments on one page were still there, they had just > changed the name of the director. > > When I looked at the page source it had the details of a company in the > USA. > > On googling the company name I found the exact same site, developed by a > guy > in the USA. > > I called the USA company who were shocked to discover their site had been > completely ripped off. > > All reputable firms I've heard of have representation in USA. If you live in the USA, deal with someone in the USA, it's their responsibility to back up the work and legal fees. They could have a firm in India or China doing the work for them but the firm in USA is held responsible if you need to take them to court. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347663 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
A little while ago a Mumbian showed me a site as an example of his design. Even the directors comments on one page were still there, they had just changed the name of the director. When I looked at the page source it had the details of a company in the USA. On googling the company name I found the exact same site, developed by a guy in the USA. I called the USA company who were shocked to discover their site had been completely ripped off. -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 2623 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347661 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
I guess we all have different experiences. I had one this week, I hired a .net developer (from India) to make a fix for websitepanel. He spent the fi1 week trying to figure it out and then finally tells me was not able to do the job as he could not even figure out which file in the source code he needed to edit. I spent 10 minutes looking through the source code epository and found the file that needed changing, and another 30 minutes looking through the code and figured out what needed fixing and within an hour I figured out how to write the code and did it myself. So in less than 1 hour, I did what he was unable to do in 1 week, and he was a .NET developer where as I have ZERO .NET knowledge, never written a single line of .net code in my life. On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 2:25 PM, Aaron Rouse wrote: > > I have worked with people from India who spoke better English than I do and > outside Sarcasm that is the only language I know. They were a LOT cheaper > than me and reading the rest of this thread I see i actually charge a little > below the low side of what people consider normal rates. In some cases I > was taking over projects from them and in other cases they were taking > projects over from me. I also have dealt with a lot of very crummy made > applications out of the India region but to be fair I have dealt with my > fair share of crummy made ones that were made in the States too. > > The big issue we have ran into though is the rather extreme "fudging" of > skillsets from people in India. For our Java team we had to develop and > entire process for validating their skillsets but then the next problem > comes in and that is the huge turnover rates over in India. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Russ Michaels wrote: > >> >> The $20 per hour rates mainly come form India via sites like >> freelancer.com which is full of outsourcing companies. >> This is what you have to compete with. >> If a client wants to deal with someone native who speaks English >> properly, then they will pay your rates, if they just want the >> cheapest price possible then they will go to India. > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347659 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
>Morality. > Ethics you mean. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347658 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
I have worked with people from India who spoke better English than I do and outside Sarcasm that is the only language I know. They were a LOT cheaper than me and reading the rest of this thread I see i actually charge a little below the low side of what people consider normal rates. In some cases I was taking over projects from them and in other cases they were taking projects over from me. I also have dealt with a lot of very crummy made applications out of the India region but to be fair I have dealt with my fair share of crummy made ones that were made in the States too. The big issue we have ran into though is the rather extreme "fudging" of skillsets from people in India. For our Java team we had to develop and entire process for validating their skillsets but then the next problem comes in and that is the huge turnover rates over in India. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:54 AM, Russ Michaels wrote: > > The $20 per hour rates mainly come form India via sites like > freelancer.com which is full of outsourcing companies. > This is what you have to compete with. > If a client wants to deal with someone native who speaks English > properly, then they will pay your rates, if they just want the > cheapest price possible then they will go to India. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347653 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Morality, yes, as well as the experience of the person doing the hiring / paying: knowing when that extra 100 hours is BS ... That being said, back when I worked for a custom web development house, we quoted jobs by the project but we often got asked what the underlying hourly rate was. My boss, one of the owners, always said, "What do you want it to be?" The implication was that we had already fixed-bidded the project and we would do it for that amount regardless, and we had already estimated what we thought the hours were going to be, but if the client wanted to pay some specific hourly rate, we would simply adjust the hours to meet their dollar amount. (If the client didn't want to pay more than $50 / hr on a $60,000 project, then we just told them to assume it was a 1,200 hour project ...) They usually realized pretty quickly that they were asking a bad question, because they had no clue how to estimate our time. Now, when we did need to do something on actual time and materials, then of course we would agree to an hourly rate and track our hours very closely. Frankly, we tracked our hours closely on the fixed-bid work, too, because otherwise *we* had no way to determine whether or not we were making money on specific projects! In other words, it always helps to have some understanding of the work you are asking for ... like knowing when the auto mechanic is blowing smoke up your tailpipe. From: "David McGuigan" Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 3:43 PM To: "cf-talk" Subject: Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously? Morality. On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Al Musella, DPM wrote: > > This may be a stupid question - I never worked by the hour, but I do > sometimes hire people by the hour to do programming - but prefer > paying by by the job.. > > There is no way to know how much time was spent programming > something. What is to stop someone from charging $20 an hour, but > doubling the amount of hours on the invoice so they really get $40 an hour? > I know when I am programming, sometimes I get an awful lot of work > done in an hour, and sometimes I am stuck looking for a bug or > adjusting something to be perfect and waste > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347649 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Morality. On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 7:59 AM, Al Musella, DPM wrote: > > This may be a stupid question - I never worked by the hour, but I do > sometimes hire people by the hour to do programming - but prefer > paying by by the job.. > > There is no way to know how much time was spent programming > something. What is to stop someone from charging $20 an hour, but > doubling the amount of hours on the invoice so they really get $40 an hour? > I know when I am programming, sometimes I get an awful lot of work > done in an hour, and sometimes I am stuck looking for a bug or > adjusting something to be perfect and waste > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347645 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
This may be a stupid question - I never worked by the hour, but I do sometimes hire people by the hour to do programming - but prefer paying by by the job.. There is no way to know how much time was spent programming something. What is to stop someone from charging $20 an hour, but doubling the amount of hours on the invoice so they really get $40 an hour? I know when I am programming, sometimes I get an awful lot of work done in an hour, and sometimes I am stuck looking for a bug or adjusting something to be perfect and waste ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347641 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Its only about $40K a year,assuming 2000 hours a year at $20/hr. That doesn't include benefits etc. Sorry but $40K a year just doesn't cut it. >Not to mention that $20 an hour is still a pretty damn good wage >comparitively. Better than making $6.50 flipping burgers at McDonalds. > > > >andy > >Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the US. >Many who have been out of a job for over a year. > >I would imagine there are a few CF'ers/PHP'ers/Insert your stack here, etc. >who have been out of work long enough to be hurting enough to take any work >that they can get. I have been there even in good economic times when I was >self employed. > >To quote Bob and Doug, $10 is $10 eh? > >I agree with Sean and Matt but there are others that are not as fortunate to >have a CV as impressive as theirs. > >Flame on Garth, >G! > >My $0.02 and worth every penny > >On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Sean Corfield >wrote: > >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades >> wrote: >> > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who >> > offered their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at >$20/hr. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347637 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
I know the thread is dead, but I just got back and I have to say just one thing: I don't disagree with your sentiment here. Except for the fact that the OP was not _offered a job_ for $20/hr. He/she was posting publicly that $20/hr was his/her rate. That's a terrible disservice to him/herself, and to the other CFers out there. Peace. Love. Let the liquor flow! Party on, Garth! :D On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:11 PM, Gerald Guido wrote: > > Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the > US. > Many who have been out of a job for over a year. > > I would imagine there are a few CF'ers/PHP'ers/Insert your stack here, etc. > who have been out of work long enough to be hurting enough to take any work > that they can get. I have been there even in good economic times when I was > self employed. > > To quote Bob and Doug, $10 is $10 eh? > > I agree with Sean and Matt but there are others that are not as fortunate > to > have a CV as impressive as theirs. > > Flame on Garth, > G! > > My $0.02 and worth every penny > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Sean Corfield >wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades > > wrote: > > > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered > > > their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > > > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > > > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. > > > > Yes, I saw that cf-jobs post. The guy has posted fairly often in the > > past, pushing himself as an experienced CFer for various rates i.r.o. > > $20/hour. > > > > Consulting groups tend to go in between $150/hour and $200/hour - > > sometimes even more - and even with their cut, $85/hour is about the > > least I've seen good CFers getting that way... more usually they get > > over $100/hour. > > > > > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare > > > commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. > > > > Absolutely. Accepting a below market rate devalues everyone's work. > > -- > > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > > Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ > > > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347632 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Comment redacted. Please do not comment on it any more it is off topic and has no place on a technical mailing list. My apologies for any impassioned diatribes and rants that this may have sparked. It was not my intention in the least, nor is this the venue for such discourse. My bad, G! On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:09 PM, Mark A. Kruger wrote: > > Gerald, > > I'm not sure that those 14mil out work are developers. That market is still > pretty tight. > > -Mark > > Mark Kruger - CFG > CF Webtools > www.cfwebtools.com > www.coldfusionmuse.com > O: 402.408.3733 x105 > E: mkru...@cfwebtools.com > Skype: markakruger > > > -Original Message- > From: Gerald Guido [mailto:gerald.gu...@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 9:12 PM > To: cf-talk > Subject: Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously? > > > Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the > US. > Many who have been out of a job for over a year. > > I would imagine there are a few CF'ers/PHP'ers/Insert your stack here, etc. > who have been out of work long enough to be hurting enough to take any work > that they can get. I have been there even in good economic times when I was > self employed. > > To quote Bob and Doug, $10 is $10 eh? > > I agree with Sean and Matt but there are others that are not as fortunate > to > have a CV as impressive as theirs. > > Flame on Garth, > G! > > My $0.02 and worth every penny > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Sean Corfield > wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades > > wrote: > > > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered > > > their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > > > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > > > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. > > > > Yes, I saw that cf-jobs post. The guy has posted fairly often in the > > past, pushing himself as an experienced CFer for various rates i.r.o. > > $20/hour. > > > > Consulting groups tend to go in between $150/hour and $200/hour - > > sometimes even more - and even with their cut, $85/hour is about the > > least I've seen good CFers getting that way... more usually they get > > over $100/hour. > > > > > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare > > > commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. > > > > Absolutely. Accepting a below market rate devalues everyone's work. > > -- > > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > > Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ > > > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347630 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Gerald, I'm not sure that those 14mil out work are developers. That market is still pretty tight. -Mark Mark Kruger - CFG CF Webtools www.cfwebtools.com www.coldfusionmuse.com O: 402.408.3733 x105 E: mkru...@cfwebtools.com Skype: markakruger -Original Message- From: Gerald Guido [mailto:gerald.gu...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 9:12 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously? Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the US. Many who have been out of a job for over a year. I would imagine there are a few CF'ers/PHP'ers/Insert your stack here, etc. who have been out of work long enough to be hurting enough to take any work that they can get. I have been there even in good economic times when I was self employed. To quote Bob and Doug, $10 is $10 eh? I agree with Sean and Matt but there are others that are not as fortunate to have a CV as impressive as theirs. Flame on Garth, G! My $0.02 and worth every penny On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades > wrote: > > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered > > their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. > > Yes, I saw that cf-jobs post. The guy has posted fairly often in the > past, pushing himself as an experienced CFer for various rates i.r.o. > $20/hour. > > Consulting groups tend to go in between $150/hour and $200/hour - > sometimes even more - and even with their cut, $85/hour is about the > least I've seen good CFers getting that way... more usually they get > over $100/hour. > > > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare > > commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. > > Absolutely. Accepting a below market rate devalues everyone's work. > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347629 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:11 PM, Gerald Guido wrote: > Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the US. > Many who have been out of a job for over a year. There are a lot of job openings for developers all over the country. If a programmer is out of work for over a year, the reason might be them, not the economy... If someone gets no interest in their resume after submitting it to dozens (or hundreds) of job openings, there's a problem with their resume - most resumes I see are pretty awful: they don't communicate why I should hire you - and the cover letters rarely communicate why you'd want to work for me / my company. If someone goes to countless interviews and gets turned down, there's a problem with how they interview (or their basic skills). Many candidates I've interviewed either cannot communicate their ideas and experience clearly or trip over on really basic technical stuff. Resume writing and interviewing are both skills folks can learn to do well - there's no real excuse for a poor resume or a poor interview. There are a lot of jobs out there but there is also a lot of competition. This is why I always emphasize how important it is to keep your skills up to date, to invest in yourself and your career. When I hear "I can't afford to go to a conference / take training", my response is "You can't afford not to". Apart from the learning experience, the networking opportunity alone can make a world of difference. Neither mine nor Matt's resumes got the way they are by sitting on our thumbs - and they didn't get that way thru being fortunate (at least, not primarily). This year I spoke at four (CFML) conferences and by the end of the year I will have attended seven other (non-CFML) conferences. I just got back from The Strange Loop which cost me, personally, about $1,300 but was worth every penny. I'm "fortunate" that my employer is funding Clojure Conj later this year but four of the other five non-CFML conferences all came out of my pocket (I only attended JAXconf because I won a ticket - by attending a *Java* User Group). Yes, I'm "fortunate" that many of those events are local because I'm in the Bay Area but that carries a huge penalty in cost of living terms. I attend a lot of non-CFML user groups - to both expand my skills and to spread the CFML love - and I try to attend as many non-CFML conferences as I reasonably can - again, to expand my skills and spread the CFML love. I consider that activity to be an investment in myself. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347628 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Not to mention that $20 an hour is still a pretty damn good wage comparitively. Better than making $6.50 flipping burgers at McDonalds. andy -Original Message- From: Gerald Guido [mailto:gerald.gu...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 9:12 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously? Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the US. Many who have been out of a job for over a year. I would imagine there are a few CF'ers/PHP'ers/Insert your stack here, etc. who have been out of work long enough to be hurting enough to take any work that they can get. I have been there even in good economic times when I was self employed. To quote Bob and Doug, $10 is $10 eh? I agree with Sean and Matt but there are others that are not as fortunate to have a CV as impressive as theirs. Flame on Garth, G! My $0.02 and worth every penny On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades > wrote: > > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who > > offered their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. > > Yes, I saw that cf-jobs post. The guy has posted fairly often in the > past, pushing himself as an experienced CFer for various rates i.r.o. > $20/hour. > > Consulting groups tend to go in between $150/hour and $200/hour - > sometimes even more - and even with their cut, $85/hour is about the > least I've seen good CFers getting that way... more usually they get > over $100/hour. > > > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a > > rare commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. > > Absolutely. Accepting a below market rate devalues everyone's work. > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- > http://worldsingles.com/ Railo Technologies, Inc. -- > http://www.getrailo.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347627 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Not to start a flame war But there are 14 million ppl out of work in the US. Many who have been out of a job for over a year. I would imagine there are a few CF'ers/PHP'ers/Insert your stack here, etc. who have been out of work long enough to be hurting enough to take any work that they can get. I have been there even in good economic times when I was self employed. To quote Bob and Doug, $10 is $10 eh? I agree with Sean and Matt but there are others that are not as fortunate to have a CV as impressive as theirs. Flame on Garth, G! My $0.02 and worth every penny On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades > wrote: > > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered > > their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. > > Yes, I saw that cf-jobs post. The guy has posted fairly often in the > past, pushing himself as an experienced CFer for various rates i.r.o. > $20/hour. > > Consulting groups tend to go in between $150/hour and $200/hour - > sometimes even more - and even with their cut, $85/hour is about the > least I've seen good CFers getting that way... more usually they get > over $100/hour. > > > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare > > commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. > > Absolutely. Accepting a below market rate devalues everyone's work. > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347626 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades wrote: > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered > their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. Yes, I saw that cf-jobs post. The guy has posted fairly often in the past, pushing himself as an experienced CFer for various rates i.r.o. $20/hour. Consulting groups tend to go in between $150/hour and $200/hour - sometimes even more - and even with their cut, $85/hour is about the least I've seen good CFers getting that way... more usually they get over $100/hour. > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare > commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. Absolutely. Accepting a below market rate devalues everyone's work. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://www.getrailo.com/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347624 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Yeah, what Cutter said. Well put, my friend. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades < cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com> wrote: > > He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered > their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. > Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse > when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. > > Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare > commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. > > Steve 'Cutter' Blades > Adobe Community Professional > Adobe Certified Expert > Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer > > http://cutterscrossing.com > > > Co-Author "Learning Ext JS 3.2" Packt Publishing 2010 > > https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book > > "The best way to predict the future is to help create it" > > > On 9/22/2011 12:11 PM, David McGuigan wrote: > > Ok just wondering, because this is how I read that post: > > > > "Hey guys I found a CF job for $20 an hour :( :( :( I can't effing > believe > > that every CF job on Earth doesn't pay AT LEAST 1 Million Dollars per > hour. > > This is stupid right? ColdFusion is stupid now right?" > > > > But I get that you're sincere. > > > > You could always not take that job and look for something $$$ier. > > > > I personally know some full time students that work at CF jobs that start > at > > $13 an hour, and some pros that work at salaried gigs that equate to > about > > $70 an hour. > > > > Depending on what project you're working on, who you're working for, and > > your talent/productivity level, your pay will vary wildly. In pretty much > > every industry and career on Earth. That's just life my friend. > > > > If you find that you're not earning as much as you'd like, upgrade > yourself. > > Education, work ethic, a focus on technique. The world is your oyster and > so > > forth! > > > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Phillip Vector > > wrote: > > > >> No trollage was intended. Seriously. > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David McGuigan > > >> wrote: > >>> Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? > >>> > >>> > >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Phillip Vector > >>> wrote: > >>> > IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who > hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the > mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an > eye paying it having learned their lesson. > > I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the > extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) > make it worth it. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer > wrote: > > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at > 50-75USD/hour. > > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. > > > > > > >>> > >> > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347623 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
He may have been referring to a poster to the cf-jobs list, who offered their services (and claimed better than average knowledge) at $20/hr. Horrific when someone undervalues their services so much. Even worse when they undervalue everyone else's by making a post like that. Good CF devs are a valuable commodity. Great (available) CF devs a rare commodity. Don't sell yourself, and everyone else, short. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author "Learning Ext JS 3.2" Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book "The best way to predict the future is to help create it" On 9/22/2011 12:11 PM, David McGuigan wrote: > Ok just wondering, because this is how I read that post: > > "Hey guys I found a CF job for $20 an hour :( :( :( I can't effing believe > that every CF job on Earth doesn't pay AT LEAST 1 Million Dollars per hour. > This is stupid right? ColdFusion is stupid now right?" > > But I get that you're sincere. > > You could always not take that job and look for something $$$ier. > > I personally know some full time students that work at CF jobs that start at > $13 an hour, and some pros that work at salaried gigs that equate to about > $70 an hour. > > Depending on what project you're working on, who you're working for, and > your talent/productivity level, your pay will vary wildly. In pretty much > every industry and career on Earth. That's just life my friend. > > If you find that you're not earning as much as you'd like, upgrade yourself. > Education, work ethic, a focus on technique. The world is your oyster and so > forth! > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Phillip Vector > wrote: > >> No trollage was intended. Seriously. >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David McGuigan >> wrote: >>> Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Phillip Vector >>> wrote: >>> IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an eye paying it having learned their lesson. I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) make it worth it. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer wrote: > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at 50-75USD/hour. > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. > > >>> >> > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347622 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
The $20 per hour rates mainly come form India via sites like freelancer.com which is full of outsourcing companies. This is what you have to compete with. If a client wants to deal with someone native who speaks English properly, then they will pay your rates, if they just want the cheapest price possible then they will go to India. The majority of clients will regret getting it done on the cheap as they wont have the technical or project management skills and thus cannot get past the language/communication barrier that exists in this situations and will end up either not getting what they wanted, or it will end up taking them 5 times longer and thus not actually save them any money. There are plenty of skilled people in India, and the outsourcing works for some people if they have the project management skills or have someone that speaks perfect English and Perfect Hindu, but as with anywhere you have to wade through all the crap developers to find the good ones, and that can be tough when they are all blagging to their back teeth that they can do the best job for you and don't actually understand half of what your saying to them anyway. Clients who want a Guru/consultant should expect to pay $120+ ph :-) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347606 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Ah.. ok then. :) On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:39 AM, David McGuigan wrote: > > I didn't mean that you were actually saying CF was stupid. I was trying to > just paraphrase your sentiment into a tantrum. Which is what it sounded > like. But I get what you mean. > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Phillip Vector > wrote: > >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:11 AM, David McGuigan >> wrote: >> > >> > Ok just wondering, because this is how I read that post: >> > >> > "Hey guys I found a CF job for $20 an hour :( :( :( I can't effing >> believe >> > that every CF job on Earth doesn't pay AT LEAST 1 Million Dollars per >> hour. >> > This is stupid right? ColdFusion is stupid now right?" >> >> I I don't see how you can see that in my post... I'm honestly >> trying, but I don't follow.. That's pretty much has nothing to do with >> what I posted. >> >> What I was trying to say is that I usually work for $50 an hour. If a >> company contracted me out to (let's say.. Valve) for $20/hr, I would >> lower my rate of pay to go work that company (especially when you get >> every game on steam for it and they have on-call massages available. >> Yes, I'm being serious). >> >> So if $20/hr + perks means I am making more then $50/hr, then I'll >> take the cut in pay for the extras (and the prestige of working >> there). >> >> I, in no way, think CF is stupid. I just got off a contract for >> $40/hr. for 6 months. The length of time of the contract helped me >> decide to go to $40 an hour. CF right now is keeping me working. :) >> That's a good thing in my mind. >> >> > You could always not take that job and look for something $$$ier. >> >> I'm ALWAYS looking for more work. Even if I'm working for the $50/hr., >> if someone comes along and offers me $80/hr., I'll take it (finishing >> up my initial contract of course). >> >> > I personally know some full time students that work at CF jobs that start >> at >> > $13 an hour, and some pros that work at salaried gigs that equate to >> about >> > $70 an hour. >> >> As do I. The 13-20/hr. I hear about are the people I'm usually called >> on to clean up after. Spaghetti code and such. Usually, I tell clients >> to nuke it from orbit to be sure and they agree. Once I have their >> site back up to how it should be (usually taking less time then the >> other guy), they are happy to pay the last part of the invoice. Hence >> my "You get what you pay for" >> >> > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347604 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
I didn't mean that you were actually saying CF was stupid. I was trying to just paraphrase your sentiment into a tantrum. Which is what it sounded like. But I get what you mean. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Phillip Vector wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:11 AM, David McGuigan > wrote: > > > > Ok just wondering, because this is how I read that post: > > > > "Hey guys I found a CF job for $20 an hour :( :( :( I can't effing > believe > > that every CF job on Earth doesn't pay AT LEAST 1 Million Dollars per > hour. > > This is stupid right? ColdFusion is stupid now right?" > > I I don't see how you can see that in my post... I'm honestly > trying, but I don't follow.. That's pretty much has nothing to do with > what I posted. > > What I was trying to say is that I usually work for $50 an hour. If a > company contracted me out to (let's say.. Valve) for $20/hr, I would > lower my rate of pay to go work that company (especially when you get > every game on steam for it and they have on-call massages available. > Yes, I'm being serious). > > So if $20/hr + perks means I am making more then $50/hr, then I'll > take the cut in pay for the extras (and the prestige of working > there). > > I, in no way, think CF is stupid. I just got off a contract for > $40/hr. for 6 months. The length of time of the contract helped me > decide to go to $40 an hour. CF right now is keeping me working. :) > That's a good thing in my mind. > > > You could always not take that job and look for something $$$ier. > > I'm ALWAYS looking for more work. Even if I'm working for the $50/hr., > if someone comes along and offers me $80/hr., I'll take it (finishing > up my initial contract of course). > > > I personally know some full time students that work at CF jobs that start > at > > $13 an hour, and some pros that work at salaried gigs that equate to > about > > $70 an hour. > > As do I. The 13-20/hr. I hear about are the people I'm usually called > on to clean up after. Spaghetti code and such. Usually, I tell clients > to nuke it from orbit to be sure and they agree. Once I have their > site back up to how it should be (usually taking less time then the > other guy), they are happy to pay the last part of the invoice. Hence > my "You get what you pay for" > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347603 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:11 AM, David McGuigan wrote: > > Ok just wondering, because this is how I read that post: > > "Hey guys I found a CF job for $20 an hour :( :( :( I can't effing believe > that every CF job on Earth doesn't pay AT LEAST 1 Million Dollars per hour. > This is stupid right? ColdFusion is stupid now right?" I I don't see how you can see that in my post... I'm honestly trying, but I don't follow.. That's pretty much has nothing to do with what I posted. What I was trying to say is that I usually work for $50 an hour. If a company contracted me out to (let's say.. Valve) for $20/hr, I would lower my rate of pay to go work that company (especially when you get every game on steam for it and they have on-call massages available. Yes, I'm being serious). So if $20/hr + perks means I am making more then $50/hr, then I'll take the cut in pay for the extras (and the prestige of working there). I, in no way, think CF is stupid. I just got off a contract for $40/hr. for 6 months. The length of time of the contract helped me decide to go to $40 an hour. CF right now is keeping me working. :) That's a good thing in my mind. > You could always not take that job and look for something $$$ier. I'm ALWAYS looking for more work. Even if I'm working for the $50/hr., if someone comes along and offers me $80/hr., I'll take it (finishing up my initial contract of course). > I personally know some full time students that work at CF jobs that start at > $13 an hour, and some pros that work at salaried gigs that equate to about > $70 an hour. As do I. The 13-20/hr. I hear about are the people I'm usually called on to clean up after. Spaghetti code and such. Usually, I tell clients to nuke it from orbit to be sure and they agree. Once I have their site back up to how it should be (usually taking less time then the other guy), they are happy to pay the last part of the invoice. Hence my "You get what you pay for" ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347602 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Integration Developer wrote: > > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at > 50-75USD/hour. > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. I think we should hesitate on discussing rates on a public site. There are too many variables to consider in evaluating rates. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347601 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
I agree. For $20/hr ... I wouldn't even talk for less than $60... but I'd expect better and generally get it. Robert B. Harrison Director of Interactive Services Austin & Williams 125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100 Hauppauge NY 11788 P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119 F : 631.434.7022 http://www.austin-williams.com Great advertising can't be either/or. It must be &. Plug in to our blog: A&W Unplugged http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347600 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Ok just wondering, because this is how I read that post: "Hey guys I found a CF job for $20 an hour :( :( :( I can't effing believe that every CF job on Earth doesn't pay AT LEAST 1 Million Dollars per hour. This is stupid right? ColdFusion is stupid now right?" But I get that you're sincere. You could always not take that job and look for something $$$ier. I personally know some full time students that work at CF jobs that start at $13 an hour, and some pros that work at salaried gigs that equate to about $70 an hour. Depending on what project you're working on, who you're working for, and your talent/productivity level, your pay will vary wildly. In pretty much every industry and career on Earth. That's just life my friend. If you find that you're not earning as much as you'd like, upgrade yourself. Education, work ethic, a focus on technique. The world is your oyster and so forth! On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Phillip Vector wrote: > > No trollage was intended. Seriously. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David McGuigan > wrote: > > > > Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Phillip Vector > > wrote: > > > >> > >> IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who > >> hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the > >> mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an > >> eye paying it having learned their lesson. > >> > >> I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the > >> extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) > >> make it worth it. > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at > >> 50-75USD/hour. > >> > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347599 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
CF dev's I know work for between 75 and 110. I wouldn't even talk on the phone for $20/hour. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Phillip Vector wrote: > > No trollage was intended. Seriously. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David McGuigan > wrote: > > > > Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? > > > > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Phillip Vector > > wrote: > > > >> > >> IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who > >> hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the > >> mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an > >> eye paying it having learned their lesson. > >> > >> I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the > >> extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) > >> make it worth it. > >> > >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at > >> 50-75USD/hour. > >> > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347598 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
20USD/Hour Seriously? > Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? I though it smelled a bit like Mumbai ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347597 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
No trollage was intended. Seriously. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 8:50 AM, David McGuigan wrote: > > Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? > > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Phillip Vector > wrote: > >> >> IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who >> hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the >> mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an >> eye paying it having learned their lesson. >> >> I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the >> extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) >> make it worth it. >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer >> wrote: >> > >> > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at >> 50-75USD/hour. >> > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. >> > >> > >> >> > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347596 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
Is it just me or does this post smell of trollage? On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:03 AM, Phillip Vector wrote: > > IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who > hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the > mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an > eye paying it having learned their lesson. > > I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the > extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) > make it worth it. > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer > wrote: > > > > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at > 50-75USD/hour. > > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347595 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: 20USD/Hour Seriously?
IMHO, you get what you pay for. I've talked with several clients who hired at $20/hr or even less. I'm usually called in to clean up the mess at my standard rate ($50/hr) and they almost always don't bat an eye paying it having learned their lesson. I will admit though... I HAVE done work for $20/hr. But only if the extras (how fun it will be to code it, free trips to seminars, etc) make it worth it. On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Integration Developer wrote: > > I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at > 50-75USD/hour. > If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347591 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
20USD/Hour Seriously?
I'm bit confused why so cheap? Just 6 months ago I was hiring out at 50-75USD/hour. If this is typical cf-jobs side work rate now I am disappointed. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:347589 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
