Re: CFML broadcasting app
As an ISP, it isn't self-blacklisting that is the issue; if we get crap from other servers, depending on the situation, we may blacklist immediately. Once those limits are hit, you won't be getting mail here, legitimate or otherwise. AOL, Yahoo, MSN, etc. all have similar technologies deployed. Having your own server doesn't matter. It's the IP address that is blocked, and while as an ISP I appreciate a client only risking their own server rather than ours, there is still a lot of work involved when that happens (complaints, etc.). That kind of volume we would require that it be farmed out to a specialty company that deals with very large lists. --Ben On 8/8/2010 2:11 PM, Wil Genovese wrote: > The other moral of the story is to run your own mail server. Odds are you > won't be blacklisting yourself ;-) > > > Wil Genovese > Sr. Web Application Developer/ > Systems Administrator > > Wil Genovese Consulting > wilg...@trunkful.com > www.trunkful.com > -- Ben Connerb...@webworldinc.com Web World, Inc. 888-206-6486 PO Box 1122 480-704-2000 Queen Creek, AZ 85242 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336102 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
The other moral of the story is to run your own mail server. Odds are you won't be blacklisting yourself ;-) Wil Genovese Sr. Web Application Developer/ Systems Administrator Wil Genovese Consulting wilg...@trunkful.com www.trunkful.com On Aug 8, 2010, at 3:55 PM, Reed Powell wrote: > So the moral of the story is that you definitely need to be careful about > throttling this kind of activity. Like I said, this worked for me for years > (with the same ISP), and I didn't recently add any new addresses to the > database. The ISP isn't going to be very forthcoming with details on > something like this, but they obviously lowered the threshold on their end of > how much outbound SMTP traffic can take place in a short timespan. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336101 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
Here is what I've learned over the past week on this topic (talk about a timely posting). I have a simple app that I use to send email blasts to my neighbors about neighborhood events, etc. There is a database with the emails (about 150 records), and I just loop over it and do a CFMAIL to send each address the message. This has been working for years, and got around all the problems usually associated with sending a message directly from a desktop client to a long list of addressees (looks like spam to both the sending SMTP server and to the receiving server, etc.). Until last week. I sent out a blast, and about an hour later my outgoing SMTP connection for Outlook (which is the same SMTP server that I have CF configured for), stopped working - it was getting a login failure when it tried to send out my desktop messages. I called the ISP tech support, they couldn't find any problem, reset my password, and everything started working again. Until yesterday. I sent out another blast, and the same thing happened. The proverbial light when on above my head. I called tech support, but this time their resetting of the password didn't work, and I also noticed that the error message from Outlook was not the login failure, but a "domain has been blacklisted" message. The tech support guy looked into it, and sure enough, those split-second blasts of 150 emails from the CF app triggered the ISP's spam-bot detection. Nothing to do but to wait for it to time-out and decide I'm a good guy after all (unless I run that CF app again!), or until Monday morning when the security guys get to work and manually fix it. Good news is that after about 12 hours it seems to have de-blacklisted me. So the moral of the story is that you definitely need to be careful about throttling this kind of activity. Like I said, this worked for me for years (with the same ISP), and I didn't recently add any new addresses to the database. The ISP isn't going to be very forthcoming with details on something like this, but they obviously lowered the threshold on their end of how much outbound SMTP traffic can take place in a short timespan. I need to modify my emailer app to not send them all at once. That needs to be coordinated with the CF Admin MAIL settings. The delay interval between executing a batch of CFMAIL tags has to be a multiple of the mail polling interval set in CF Admin. I'm running on my own box, so I know what that interval is, but if you're using a shared hosting service then you're going to have to experiment to deduce what they have their polling interval set to - the default is 15 seconds (or you could call them and ask). The CF shared hosting configs that I've worked with always had it set to something higher, like 5 or 10 minutes. I ran into this with just 150 addresses, so you should be able to see what level of complexity you're going to run into with the massive quantity you're talking about. Good luck! -reed ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336100 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
We wrote an email marketing system that we used for about 8 years. Our experience was that CFMAIL, since CF 7 at least, is plenty fast enough to send out very large numbers of emails. The ColdFusion programming was the easy side of things. The challenges were on the systems side. Email relays, like Postfix, can be configured to throttle mail to ISPs so that only a certain number go within a given time frame. Each ISP or mail server has its own rules. Your email system should listen to replies from the ISPs and back-off/delay as requested. While you can 'do it yourself' with Postfix, there are programs like PowerMTA, that do a lot of the work for you (http://www.port25.com/). We had to put our company email on another server because between the sending and the volume of bounce backs, etc our internal email slowed to a crawl. Expect that your mail admin will have to be regularly involved in responding to Blacklists, preemptively white listing your IPs, etc. Our volume got so high that we ended up going to SilverPop (http://www.silverpop.com/). We shelved our internal email marketing program and wrote programs to SilverPop's API to import and export from their system. Tens of thousands of emails a day is pretty serious and if you are going into the hundreds of thousands of emails a day territory then you really need to plan it out carefully. Hope this helps. David ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336099 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
As I understand it, the blacklisting services look NOT for large volumes of mail, but substantial and/or sudden changes. I had a spammer get through my defences once and set up hosting with me. Immediately he started sending volumes of email. Within 24 hours our ip addresses were blacklisted, and the advice I got when i tried to get them unblacklisted again was that there was a sudden increase in mail and that's what triggered the blacklisting. I have other clients I host who send more emails than that person did in the short time before we shut him down again, and there has never been a suggestion of blacklisting them. I'm assuming that's because they have built up the volume over a period of time so their pattern hasn't changed dramatically. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 4:37 AM, UXB Internet wrote: > > >> This is much bigger than a CFML issue... > > I could, and for the unfortunate bystanders, have talked for hours about > the > problem of email. We are a website design and Hosting company and yet my > biggest expenditure in time and resources goes to email and email issues. - > oops I started pontificating again. > > The real trick is to have granular control of your sending email server. > We > have a SMTP server specifically for the sending process. Our main POP/SMTP > email server like most today can easily handle more than 512 simultaneous > SMTP threads however the sending server, the one used to send out > notifications and newsletters, is set to 32 outbound threads and 512 > inbound > threads. This allows CF and our listserver to send email to the sending > relay as fast as it can but throttles the actual outbound delivery to a > manageable level so as not to overwhelm other services like AOL, which > grey-list automatically, yahoo or Gmail. It takes longer to deliver but it > does get delivered and we stay off block lists. You just have to remember > to be polite, which sometimes the fast technology forgets to do. > > > Dennis Powers > UXB Internet - A Website Design & Hosting Company > P.O. Box 6028 > Wolcott, CT 06716 > 203-879-2844 > http://www.uxbinternet.com > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336098 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: CFML broadcasting app
>> This is much bigger than a CFML issue... I could, and for the unfortunate bystanders, have talked for hours about the problem of email. We are a website design and Hosting company and yet my biggest expenditure in time and resources goes to email and email issues. - oops I started pontificating again. The real trick is to have granular control of your sending email server. We have a SMTP server specifically for the sending process. Our main POP/SMTP email server like most today can easily handle more than 512 simultaneous SMTP threads however the sending server, the one used to send out notifications and newsletters, is set to 32 outbound threads and 512 inbound threads. This allows CF and our listserver to send email to the sending relay as fast as it can but throttles the actual outbound delivery to a manageable level so as not to overwhelm other services like AOL, which grey-list automatically, yahoo or Gmail. It takes longer to deliver but it does get delivered and we stay off block lists. You just have to remember to be polite, which sometimes the fast technology forgets to do. Dennis Powers UXB Internet - A Website Design & Hosting Company P.O. Box 6028 Wolcott, CT 06716 203-879-2844 http://www.uxbinternet.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336097 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 3:47 PM, cfcom wrote: > Several hundred thousand, possible 2MM You really need to look at one of the commercial mass mailing services. If you try to send that many emails off your own servers, you're almost certain to get yourself blacklisted. At Macromedia, we had to have a fairly sophisticated outbound mail system because of the number of subscribers to The Edge newsletter. As I recall, we had a cluster of outbound mail servers and had to re-IP them fairly frequently to avoid black listing issues. This is much bigger than a CFML issue... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336096 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: CFML broadcasting app
There will be a problem if this goes to aol, yahoo, gmail, att, etc.. if you send too many emails in a short period of time, they blacklist you and the emails just disappear. I send a newsletter out to about 12,000 people and a few years ago experimented on how many I could send at one time.. (haven't tested recently so this could be out of date now) it set up so no more than about 25 go out every 5 minutes to the same isp At 06:47 PM 8/6/2010, you wrote: >Several hundred thousand, possible 2MM > >-Original Message- ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336095 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: CFML broadcasting app
> Don't forget that "many years ago" CFMAIL was not > capable of whatever silly high throughput it now > is (I think I've read over 1 million mails per > minute). Remember also that the tag just writes the message to disk for the delivery spooler to pick up and hand off to your SMTP relay (in the default configuration, anyway). Once you push tens of thousands of messages into the spool things can get ugly if your SMTP relay can't keep up. Internally we stopped using the cfmail tag a while back and have our own custom tag which passes the message into a custom queue which writes MSG files directly to the pickup folders on one of several IIS SMTP relay servers for delivery. I've generally found that injecting the message directly into the queue of the SMTP server has been much faster than relying on CF's SMTP spooler to relay them via SMTP. Message size also plays as a factor as larger HTML-designed newsletters will take longer to push through than basic text-only notifications will. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336088 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: CFML broadcasting app
Several hundred thousand, possible 2MM -Original Message- From: Justin Scott [mailto:jscott-li...@gravityfree.com] Sent: 2010-08-06 14:48 To: cf-talk Subject: RE: CFML broadcasting app > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone > written an Email Broadcasting system in Coldfusion > and/or can recommend one? How large do you consider "large"? -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336087 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
Ya, back then CF mail had to actually carve a stone tablet for each message. It took forever. I jokes with you Mo. On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 5:04 PM, Bryan Stevenson < br...@electricedgesystems.com> wrote: > > ahhhthat was MANY many years ago then ;-) > > On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:44 -0700, Maureen wrote: > > > CFMail wasn't the problem then..the mail server bandwidth was. Chunks > > are configurable as well. > > > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Bryan Stevenson > > wrote: > > > > > > Don't forget that "many years ago" CFMAIL was not capable of whatever > > > silly high throughput it now is (I think I've read over 1 million mails > > > per minute). > > > > > > So "manageable chunks" may no longer matter...just sayin ;-) > > > > > > volume shall dictate approach as always ;-) > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:11 -0700, Maureen wrote: > > > > > >> Many years ago I wrote a system to read the email addresses from the > > >> database and send them in manageable chunks using CFMAIL. Is that > > >> what you need? If so, let me know and I'll dig out the code from my > > >> archives. > > >> > > >> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:06 AM, cfcom wrote: > > >> > > > >> > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email > > >> > Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336082 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
ahhhthat was MANY many years ago then ;-) On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:44 -0700, Maureen wrote: > CFMail wasn't the problem then..the mail server bandwidth was. Chunks > are configurable as well. > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Bryan Stevenson > wrote: > > > > Don't forget that "many years ago" CFMAIL was not capable of whatever > > silly high throughput it now is (I think I've read over 1 million mails > > per minute). > > > > So "manageable chunks" may no longer matter...just sayin ;-) > > > > volume shall dictate approach as always ;-) > > > > Cheers > > > > On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:11 -0700, Maureen wrote: > > > >> Many years ago I wrote a system to read the email addresses from the > >> database and send them in manageable chunks using CFMAIL. Is that > >> what you need? If so, let me know and I'll dig out the code from my > >> archives. > >> > >> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:06 AM, cfcom wrote: > >> > > >> > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email > >> > Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336081 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
CFMail wasn't the problem then..the mail server bandwidth was. Chunks are configurable as well. On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Bryan Stevenson wrote: > > Don't forget that "many years ago" CFMAIL was not capable of whatever > silly high throughput it now is (I think I've read over 1 million mails > per minute). > > So "manageable chunks" may no longer matter...just sayin ;-) > > volume shall dictate approach as always ;-) > > Cheers > > On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:11 -0700, Maureen wrote: > >> Many years ago I wrote a system to read the email addresses from the >> database and send them in manageable chunks using CFMAIL. Is that >> what you need? If so, let me know and I'll dig out the code from my >> archives. >> >> On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:06 AM, cfcom wrote: >> > >> > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email >> > Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? >> > >> >> > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336079 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
Don't forget that "many years ago" CFMAIL was not capable of whatever silly high throughput it now is (I think I've read over 1 million mails per minute). So "manageable chunks" may no longer matter...just sayin ;-) volume shall dictate approach as always ;-) Cheers On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 13:11 -0700, Maureen wrote: > Many years ago I wrote a system to read the email addresses from the > database and send them in manageable chunks using CFMAIL. Is that > what you need? If so, let me know and I'll dig out the code from my > archives. > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:06 AM, cfcom wrote: > > > > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email > > Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336078 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
Many years ago I wrote a system to read the email addresses from the database and send them in manageable chunks using CFMAIL. Is that what you need? If so, let me know and I'll dig out the code from my archives. On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:06 AM, cfcom wrote: > > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email > Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336076 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: CFML broadcasting app
> We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone > written an Email Broadcasting system in Coldfusion > and/or can recommend one? How large do you consider "large"? -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336069 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFML broadcasting app
If this is a one-off mailing, do you need a "system" to do it? If you have the body text and the mailing list all you need to do is: #mailBody# If you are sending HTML in your message body, you'll need to use the type attribute of the CFMAIL tag A rough examplebut hopefully it helps Cheers On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 14:06 -0400, cfcom wrote: > We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email > Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? > > > > Thank you > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336066 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
CFML broadcasting app
We have to do a large mailing in-house. Has anyone written an Email Broadcasting system in Coldfusion and/or can recommend one? Thank you ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:336065 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
