RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Another weakness is that Interbase does not support outer joins of any kind. Thank You, Peter Peter J. MacDonald II Creative Computing, Inc. 100 Middle Street Lincoln, RI 02865 Phone: 401.727.0183 x123 Fax: 401.727.4998 Portable: 401.965.3661 E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Page: www.creatcomp.com -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:28 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Whatever you do don't get interbase!!!it's a pigging nightmare. Besides there is a major security flaw: Interbase contains a backdoor user account and password called "LOCKSMITH". When accessed this account will eliminate all implemented security allowing full control of any database and contents within the database, this level of access will allow any function to be performed including modification of objects, root access and execution of arbitrary functions. "LOCKSMITH" is hard coded in the database engine and is located in the jrd/pwd.h header. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Howie Hamlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 February 2001 16:43 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
I don't seem to be able to DTS to it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Has anyone confirmed that MSDE is limited compared to SQL Server? best, paul At 04:06 PM 2/22/01 -0700, you wrote: MSDE works great. Easy install from the Office Server Extensions disk. I use the Enterprise Manager on my MS SQL box to work on the tables. Seems to have the same performance as MS SQL. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
I should have been clearer in my question. Recalling the Revelations years ago about the lack of differences between NT Workstation and NT Server, and that M$ is a much better marketing than software company, I was wondering about M$'s claim that MSDE had been optimized for 5 users: "MSDE is tuned for desktop and shared solutions where there are less than 5 concurrent users hitting the database at any one time. SQL Server Desktop also shares this optimization at five concurrent users or less. If your solution needs to support more than this number of concurrent users, we highly recommend you migrate to SQL Server or SQL Server Enterprise editions for optimal performance at this higher level of scalabily." The question is whether MSDE users have actually observed performance degradation as the number of users grows above 5? best, paul At 10:31 AM 2/23/01 +0100, you wrote: I don't seem to be able to DTS to it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Has anyone confirmed that MSDE is limited compared to SQL Server? best, paul At 04:06 PM 2/22/01 -0700, you wrote: MSDE works great. Easy install from the Office Server Extensions disk. I use the Enterprise Manager on my MS SQL box to work on the tables. Seems to have the same performance as MS SQL. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
- Original Message - From: "paul smith" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 1:24 PM I should have been clearer in my question. Recalling the Revelations years ago about the lack of differences between NT Workstation and NT Server, and that M$ is a much better marketing than software company, I was wondering about M$'s claim that MSDE had been optimized for 5 users: But how is a "user" defined in the context of ODBC or OLEDB connections? The usual definition of a "user" is an NT login, or a printer access, some other NT native service or whatever - ODBC seems to sit aside from those - hence the creation of "Internet Connector Licences" and so on. Presumably those using MSDE haven't seen any_actual_ODBC connection limits? Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 system). Another option is to join the MS Developer Network and get a universal subscription for about $600 (plus tax/shipping). With that, you get all the commerce server, visual studio, office and a whole bunch of other software, including SQL Server. I wanted SQL Server to run on my development box and thought this was a great deal - Office Developer, Win200 and MS SQL (plus all the other stuff) for less than $700. I have to ask... Where on EARTH did you get an MSDN Universal sub for $700? We just paid like $2100 BTW, if anyone needs/wants Visio 2000 Pro (plus a free copy of Visio 2000 Enterprise), I have a still-shrink-wrapped copy I don't need anymore (since it's part of the MSDN subscription) that I'll let go for what I paid - about $350. Do keep in mind that your MSDN copy has extremely limited licensing. If you're using Visio to do anything other than develop Visio applications, then you probably need to hold on to your shrink wrapped copy to be legal. Best regards, Zac Bedell -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com Comment: Please use PGP! iQA/AwUBOpaGqqvhLS1aWPxeEQKBzACgqsEabX9aUOMw+CHIhQRZVTGQdNoAoLgx c3VzUweW1h9p0RFNtObbgbU+ =jgMR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
I am going to be using this server for mostly development, a little bit for Production. Most of the sites that I work on are very small and MS Access would work just fine. I have very limited programming knowledge, and I only have experience with Access and SQL Server. One of my clients has a site that receives about 6,000 page views a day, and his database is about 30 Megs on a SQL Server. I don't feel that Access would be able to handle this size of database. My concern would be if I was going to run MySQL, how much difference would there be with writing my queries and what not, to accommodate to MySQL? Does anyone have the link to Subscription page for MS Developer Network? I have looked through the site and can't find it. Thanks for all the feedback that I have received on this post. Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Are you going to be just running a local development server, or will this be on a production box? If this is just for developing on a local box, as someone else already pointed out, you could use MSDE. If you don't already have Access 2000, you can download MSDE (I think) from Microsoft's site. MSDE also comes bundled with Visio 2000 (it installs MSDE without asking if it isn't already on your system). Another option is to join the MS Developer Network and get a universal subscription for about $600 (plus tax/shipping). With that, you get all the commerce server, visual studio, office and a whole bunch of other software, including SQL Server. I wanted SQL Server to run on my development box and thought this was a great deal - Office Developer, Win200 and MS SQL (plus all the other stuff) for less than $700. BTW, if anyone needs/wants Visio 2000 Pro (plus a free copy of Visio 2000 Enterprise), I have a still-shrink-wrapped copy I don't need anymore (since it's part of the MSDN subscription) that I'll let go for what I paid - about $350. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 -Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: MSDN - was RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
The Universal Subscription is $2,500/ or $1,999 for a one time upgrade from VS. Renewals are $1,999/yr. The $700 Professional edition does not include the software. The Universal Subscription is, IMHO, a bargain. It includes a lot more than the software. http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/overview.asp Cary At 03:12 PM 2/22/2001 -0600, you wrote: Another option is to join the MS Developer Network and get a universal subscription for about $600 (plus tax/shipping). With that, you get all the commerce server, visual studio, office and a whole bunch of other software, including SQL Server. I wanted SQL Server to run on my development box and thought this was a great deal - Office Developer, Win200 and MS SQL (plus all the other stuff) for less than $700. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/overview.asp Todd Ashworth -- Web Application Developer Network Administrator Saber Corporation 314 Oakland Ave. Rock Hill, SC 29730 (803) 327-0137 [111] - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:56 AM Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 | I am going to be using this server for mostly development, a little bit for | Production. Most of the sites that I work on are very small and MS Access | would work just fine. I have very limited programming knowledge, and I only | have experience with Access and SQL Server. One of my clients has a site | that receives about 6,000 page views a day, and his database is about 30 | Megs on a SQL Server. I don't feel that Access would be able to handle this | size of database. My concern would be if I was going to run MySQL, how much | difference would there be with writing my queries and what not, to | accommodate to MySQL? | | Does anyone have the link to Subscription page for MS Developer Network? I | have looked through the site and can't find it. | | Thanks for all the feedback that I have received on this post. | | Jason Larson | [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Does anyone have the link to Subscription page for MS Developer Network? I have looked through the site and can't find it. http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/overview.asp That's the info page about the different levels. There's a Purchase link on that page to get you to the actual order form. Best regards, Zac Bedell -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com Comment: Please use PGP! iQA/AwUBOpaPVavhLS1aWPxeEQKpMQCeN2K7eGeOaP3Q14zNxKyb/uwkQOUAnjdG 2BCYc2XeL7DDpKiIwHp3ipGL =t7Eu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000]
http://www.mysql.com/downloads/contrib.html look for access_to_mysql converter "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am going to be using this server for mostly development, a little bit for Production. Most of the sites that I work on are very small and MS Access would work just fine. I have very limited programming knowledge, and I only have experience with Access and SQL Server. One of my clients has a site that receives about 6,000 page views a day, and his database is about 30 Megs on a SQL Server. I don't feel that Access would be able to handle this size of database. My concern would be if I was going to run MySQL, how much difference would there be with writing my queries and what not, to accommodate to MySQL? Does anyone have the link to Subscription page for MS Developer Network? I have looked through the site and can't find it. Thanks for all the feedback that I have received on this post. Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Chris Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Are you going to be just running a local development server, or will this be on a production box? If this is just for developing on a local box, as someone else already pointed out, you could use MSDE. If you don't already have Access 2000, you can download MSDE (I think) from Microsoft's site. MSDE also comes bundled with Visio 2000 (it installs MSDE without asking if it isn't already on your system). Another option is to join the MS Developer Network and get a universal subscription for about $600 (plus tax/shipping). With that, you get all the commerce server, visual studio, office and a whole bunch of other software, including SQL Server. I wanted SQL Server to run on my development box and thought this was a great deal - Office Developer, Win200 and MS SQL (plus all the other stuff) for less than $700. BTW, if anyone needs/wants Visio 2000 Pro (plus a free copy of Visio 2000 Enterprise), I have a still-shrink-wrapped copy I don't need anymore (since it's part of the MSDN subscription) that I'll let go for what I paid - about $350. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 -Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
I have a rather complex application running on our devleopment server. So far we haven't had more then 3 or 4 people in it at a time. If a bunch of people have some time we can test the performance with more than 5 users. I can monitor the server while it's being hit and we can see how it does. Kent Runyan CFDynamics.com Please contact me off list if you would like to test the 5 user theory [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://demo.cfdynamics.com/cfdcalendar -Original Message- From: paul smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 6:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 I should have been clearer in my question. Recalling the Revelations years ago about the lack of differences between NT Workstation and NT Server, and that M$ is a much better marketing than software company, I was wondering about M$'s claim that MSDE had been optimized for 5 users: "MSDE is tuned for desktop and shared solutions where there are less than 5 concurrent users hitting the database at any one time. SQL Server Desktop also shares this optimization at five concurrent users or less. If your solution needs to support more than this number of concurrent users, we highly recommend you migrate to SQL Server or SQL Server Enterprise editions for optimal performance at this higher level of scalabily." The question is whether MSDE users have actually observed performance degradation as the number of users grows above 5? best, paul At 10:31 AM 2/23/01 +0100, you wrote: I don't seem to be able to DTS to it. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 3:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Has anyone confirmed that MSDE is limited compared to SQL Server? best, paul At 04:06 PM 2/22/01 -0700, you wrote: MSDE works great. Easy install from the Office Server Extensions disk. I use the Enterprise Manager on my MS SQL box to work on the tables. Seems to have the same performance as MS SQL. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000]
IIRC, MySQL uses standard SQL, that is it conforms to SQL standards, where M$, Oracle, etc. add to the standard. So, as long as your SQL is standard, the queries you have written should work. My concern would be if I was going to run MySQL, how much difference would there be with writing my queries and what not, to accommodate to MySQL? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000]
From the MySQL website. We try to make MySQL follow the ANSI SQL standard and the ODBC SQL standard, but in some cases MySQL does some things differently: -- is only a comment if followed by a white space. See section 5.4.7 `--' as the Start of a Comment. For VARCHAR columns, trailing spaces are removed when the value is stored. See section G Known errors and design deficiencies in MySQL. In some cases, CHAR columns are silently changed to VARCHAR columns. See section 7.7.1 Silent Column Specification Changes. Privileges for a table are not automatically revoked when you delete a table. You must explicitly issue a REVOKE to revoke privileges for a table. See section 7.34 GRANT and REVOKE Syntax. NULL AND FALSE will evaluate to NULL and not to FALSE. This is because we don't think it's good to have to evaluate a lot of extra conditions in this MySQL is NOT SQL92 Compliant like SQL Server, Oracle, Interbase... please also refer to a previous post that refers to MySQL's poor performance under load. Postgres is closer to being SQL92 compliant than MySQL also. jon - Original Message - From: "Douglas Knudsen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000] IIRC, MySQL uses standard SQL, that is it conforms to SQL standards, where M$, Oracle, etc. add to the standard. So, as long as your SQL is standard, the queries you have written should work. My concern would be if I was going to run MySQL, how much difference would there be with writing my queries and what not, to accommodate to MySQL? ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
-Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:56 AM snip Does anyone have the link to Subscription page for MS Developer Network? I have looked through the site and can't find it. First, go here: http://msdnisv.microsoft.com/ and apply for a free membership. Once accepted, click on the benefits page and follow the MSDN Universal Subscription link for more info. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
-Original Message- From: Zachary Bedell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:50 AM snip I have to ask... Where on EARTH did you get an MSDN Universal sub for $700? We just paid like $2100 First, you sign up for the MSDN Business Connection program. Once you do that, they offer a Universal sub for $599 (plus tax/shipping). Do keep in mind that your MSDN copy has extremely limited licensing. If you're using Visio to do anything other than develop Visio applications, then you probably need to hold on to your shrink wrapped copy to be legal. Actually, the copy of Visio Pro/Enterprise I have was from a purchase just before I signed up for the Universal Subscription. Since Visio now comes with the MSDN sub, I don't need the purchased copies anymore (and the Enterprise version was tossed in free when I bought the Pro version). Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: MSDN - was RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
I guess I should have been more precise in my original message. A colleague in our CFUG told me about the MSDN Business Connection program. After joining that, they offer members a special Universal Sub annual price of $599. But this isn't well publicized at the MSDN Business Connections site until you join and log in. Here's the message my friend sent to me: " Here is the link to info about the ISV program - Lots of benefits! http://msdnisv.microsoft.com/ MSDN Universal Subscription Executive Summary Discount on one annual MSDN Universal Subscription. Target Audience Product Development Requirements/Restrictions This particular discount is available only for Business Connections members in the United States and Canada.. To Participate To Participate Please email [EMAIL PROTECTED] requesting a discount voucher and toll free number to our MSDN Universal sales representatives who can confirm delivery information and gather billing information. If you have any questions, please mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Detailed Description The Microsoft Developer Network Universal Subscription is offered exclusively to MSDN Business Connection Members in the United States and Canada for $599 plus tax and shipping (U.S.). This is approximately 50% off the regular subscription price. The MSDN Universal Subscription Includes: The MSDN Development Library which provides 1.5 GB of technical programming information from Microsoft. Windows 95, 98 and Windows Workstation for testing and development purposes, including important pre-release versions. Software Development Kits (NT) and Device Driver Kits (DDKs) The Backoffice Test Platform Microsoft Office Developer Edition and Microsoft Project, Front Page Microsoft Visual Studio 6.0 including: Visual Basic, Enterprise Edition Visual C++, Enterprise Edition Visual FoxPro, Professional Edition Visual J++ Visual InterDev Visual SourceSafe Plus any updates and new releases of any components that release during your subscription year!" Since I joined, they've added even more software to the package. Hope that clarifies things a bit. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 -Original Message- From: Cary Gordon [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 10:10 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: MSDN - was RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 The Universal Subscription is $2,500/ or $1,999 for a one time upgrade from VS. Renewals are $1,999/yr. The $700 Professional edition does not include the software. The Universal Subscription is, IMHO, a bargain. It includes a lot more than the software. http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/prodinfo/overview.asp Cary ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
If you want a serious database then you have to pay serious money. Look at it this way.for what you get SQL is good value for money. Oracle is much more expensive. If you don't need a "serious" database then use something like Access or Foxpro - it all depends on how much data and how many requests are going to be made to it -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 February 2001 15:50 To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Well, there's always MySQL, but I bet there's a chorus of folks here who'll say it ain't ready for primetime, which is why I'm posting... could anyone expound on this? Especially using mySQL with CF. Thanks! -Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Jason, You could buy Access 2k and run MSDE rather than JET. MSDE is basically SQL Server 7 sans the Enterprise Manager. You can create triggers, stored procedures, views etc., and except for the 2gb limit, it scales okay. I understand there are no licensing issues beyond owning a copy of Access or Visual Studio. Chris - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
mySQL and run linux!That's as cheap as it get's. - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Well, depending on your resources... You can get the developer version for ~$500. Or spend $1000 to subscribe to MSDN. Either of these copies, however, will be strictly for development. Since you quoted $5,000 as the price I imagine you are not looking into hosting yourself, but outsourcing it. I'd highly recommend against using MS Access, although it is an option. At 08:49 AM 02/22/2001 -0700, you wrote: Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Although MySQL is not suitable for many environments, it is a step up from Access and other file databases. It is missing many of the features of SQL Server, including Transact-SQL. However, MySQL runs well on NT, has a fine ODBC driver, and is as stable as anything else. Perhaps best of all, it is in your price range (free). It is definitely worth a look. We've used MySQL for logging purposes, but rely on Microsoft SQL Server 7 for everything else because we really need some of the features that MySQL lacks. Benjamin S. Rogers Web Developer, c4.net Voice: (508) 240-0051 Fax: (508) 240-0057 -Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Whatever you do don't get interbase!!!it's a pigging nightmare. Besides there is a major security flaw: Interbase contains a backdoor user account and password called "LOCKSMITH". When accessed this account will eliminate all implemented security allowing full control of any database and contents within the database, this level of access will allow any function to be performed including modification of objects, root access and execution of arbitrary functions. "LOCKSMITH" is hard coded in the database engine and is located in the jrd/pwd.h header. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Howie Hamlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 February 2001 16:43 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
If you want a serious database then you have to pay serious money. Which is what companies like Oracle and Microsoft want you to think. -- It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail. Gore Vidal email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: http://www.pixelgeek.com/ ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000]
postgresSQL "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
You could look at MySql -Free Justin -Original Message- From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:21 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Well, depending on your resources... You can get the developer version for ~$500. Or spend $1000 to subscribe to MSDN. Either of these copies, however, will be strictly for development. Since you quoted $5,000 as the price I imagine you are not looking into hosting yourself, but outsourcing it. I'd highly recommend against using MS Access, although it is an option. At 08:49 AM 02/22/2001 -0700, you wrote: Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
There is no back door in Interbase 6.0.1 Regards, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Andy Ewings" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Whatever you do don't get interbase!!!it's a pigging nightmare. Besides there is a major security flaw: Interbase contains a backdoor user account and password called "LOCKSMITH". When accessed this account will eliminate all implemented security allowing full control of any database and contents within the database, this level of access will allow any function to be performed including modification of objects, root access and execution of arbitrary functions. "LOCKSMITH" is hard coded in the database engine and is located in the jrd/pwd.h header. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Please do you research on this. The backdoor has been closed. A simple search on Google would have shown that. See http://community.borland.com/article/0,1410,26611,00.html for the sordid details. Michel Vuijlsteke Netpoint NV -Original Message- From: Andy Ewings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:28 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Whatever you do don't get interbase!!!it's a pigging nightmare. Besides there is a major security flaw: Interbase contains a backdoor user account and password called "LOCKSMITH". When accessed this account will eliminate all implemented security allowing full control of any database and contents within the database, this level of access will allow any function to be performed including modification of objects, root access and execution of arbitrary functions. "LOCKSMITH" is hard coded in the database engine and is located in the jrd/pwd.h header. -- Andrew Ewings Project Manager Thoughtbubble Ltd http://www.thoughtbubble.net -- United Kingdom http://www.thoughtbubble.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 20 7387 8890 -- New Zealand http://www.thoughtbubble.co.nz/ Tel: +64 (0) 9 488 9131 -- The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential and intended solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Thoughtbubble. This information may be subject to legal, professional or other privilege and further distribution of it is strictly prohibited without our authority. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorised to disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message. Please notify us on +44 (0)207 387 8890. -Original Message- From: Howie Hamlin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 22 February 2001 16:43 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, there's always MySQL, but I bet there's a chorus of folks here who'll say it ain't ready for primetime, which is why I'm posting... could anyone expound on this? Especially using mySQL with CF. Ok... I'll bite... Probably the biggest things about MySQL that aren't ready for prime time are these: 1) Its support for transactions is limited (at best!). I know they're working on that and it's getting better, but that's a fairly big limitation for some situations. 2) As far as I know, it still doesn't support any kind of stored procedure. 3) They take shortcuts on things like log-before-write that can cause data loss or corruption if your server loses power or if MySQL goes down hard. Microsoft SQL Server is pretty close to bullet-proof in that regard. If SQL Server tells ODBC that data was written, then indeed it will be written -- either permanently to the DB or at least to the log where it will be recovered if anything unpleasant happens to the server. MySQL doesn't do that, so there's a chance of problems. I've never run into any, but it's mathematically possible 4) MySQL's support for JOINs is fairly dumb in my experience. I find I have to use completely different syntax to do the same things in SQL Server / MS Access then I do for MySQL. That's not to say MySQL doesn't have it's plusses. It *is* free. I've got the MP3 player in the trunk of my car running MySQL and it works just *fine*. I just wouldn't want to sick a thousand paying customers on that server and hope it keeps working through it... That's just my jaded opinion of course, so please take it with the proper grain of salt... Best regards, Zac Bedell -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com Comment: Please use PGP! iQA/AwUBOpVqcKvhLS1aWPxeEQIqvwCg9CPpRT2K4DZyloBKYUDP7JvuTCoAoOxC CippPV+adIoyx7ZEQPHH7zqQ =YGHK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: [OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000]
I actually have more of a related question than advice on this. I have been developing CF on NT using SQLserver and Access, but now I have to build an application that will be hosted on a solaris box. The box doesn't have anything yet, so ideally I'm trying to find a database that I can develop on my NT development server and publish to the unix box. Any suggestions on a good cross-platform database solution? :--)) Rob -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: [OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000] postgresSQL "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
- Original Message - From: "JustinMacCarthy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:03 PM You could look at MySql -Free Except for the fact if you are running NT/2000, you will need a seperate machine to run Linux/mySQL and which then costs the same as SQL Server for an appropriate spec machine. I agree that_if_you have a decent Linux box already - mySQL is a good solution for sure, but beyond that I am intrigued by the possibilities for MSDE - anyone tried that? Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Are you going to be just running a local development server, or will this be on a production box? If this is just for developing on a local box, as someone else already pointed out, you could use MSDE. If you don't already have Access 2000, you can download MSDE (I think) from Microsoft's site. MSDE also comes bundled with Visio 2000 (it installs MSDE without asking if it isn't already on your system). Another option is to join the MS Developer Network and get a universal subscription for about $600 (plus tax/shipping). With that, you get all the commerce server, visual studio, office and a whole bunch of other software, including SQL Server. I wanted SQL Server to run on my development box and thought this was a great deal - Office Developer, Win200 and MS SQL (plus all the other stuff) for less than $700. BTW, if anyone needs/wants Visio 2000 Pro (plus a free copy of Visio 2000 Enterprise), I have a still-shrink-wrapped copy I don't need anymore (since it's part of the MSDN subscription) that I'll let go for what I paid - about $350. Chris Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Development Consulting http://www.astutia.com Allaire Consulting Partner 210-490-3249/888-745-7603Fax 210-490-4692 AIM: astutiaweb; ICQ: 7381282; Firetalk: Ag78 -Original Message- From: Jason Larson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:50 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Run CF on Linux with either PostGreSQL or MySQL... There are couple of join types not supported on postgres, but I can't remember specifically. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
I don't know if you meant to include this as part of your first issue (transaction support), but the last time I checked (several months ago) MySQL doesn't yet support row-level locking (table level only). This can be a performance hit on heavily accessed databases. Still, you couldn't beat the price unless they paid you to use it. - Original Message - From: "Zachary Bedell" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Well, there's always MySQL, but I bet there's a chorus of folks here who'll say it ain't ready for primetime, which is why I'm posting... could anyone expound on this? Especially using mySQL with CF. Ok... I'll bite... Probably the biggest things about MySQL that aren't ready for prime time are these: 1) Its support for transactions is limited (at best!). I know they're working on that and it's getting better, but that's a fairly big limitation for some situations. 2) As far as I know, it still doesn't support any kind of stored procedure. 3) They take shortcuts on things like log-before-write that can cause data loss or corruption if your server loses power or if MySQL goes down hard. Microsoft SQL Server is pretty close to bullet-proof in that regard. If SQL Server tells ODBC that data was written, then indeed it will be written -- either permanently to the DB or at least to the log where it will be recovered if anything unpleasant happens to the server. MySQL doesn't do that, so there's a chance of problems. I've never run into any, but it's mathematically possible 4) MySQL's support for JOINs is fairly dumb in my experience. I find I have to use completely different syntax to do the same things in SQL Server / MS Access then I do for MySQL. That's not to say MySQL doesn't have it's plusses. It *is* free. I've got the MP3 player in the trunk of my car running MySQL and it works just *fine*. I just wouldn't want to sick a thousand paying customers on that server and hope it keeps working through it... That's just my jaded opinion of course, so please take it with the proper grain of salt... Best regards, Zac Bedell -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.8 for non-commercial use http://www.pgp.com Comment: Please use PGP! iQA/AwUBOpVqcKvhLS1aWPxeEQIqvwCg9CPpRT2K4DZyloBKYUDP7JvuTCoAoOxC CippPV+adIoyx7ZEQPHH7zqQ =YGHK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: [RE: [OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000]]
your database doesnt have to be on the same box as CF. i have a solaris CF box hitting a NT/SQLServer DB and it works fine. but anyway if youhave to have both on 1 machine MySQL works on both. "Rob Eastland" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually have more of a related question than advice on this. I have been developing CF on NT using SQLserver and Access, but now I have to build an application that will be hosted on a solaris box. The box doesn't have anything yet, so ideally I'm trying to find a database that I can develop on my NT development server and publish to the unix box. Any suggestions on a good cross-platform database solution? :--)) Rob -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: [OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000] postgresSQL "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
MSDE works great. Easy install from the Office Server Extensions disk. I use the Enterprise Manager on my MS SQL box to work on the tables. Seems to have the same performance as MS SQL. Kent Runyan CFDynamics.com -Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 1:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Original Message - From: "JustinMacCarthy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:03 PM You could look at MySql -Free Except for the fact if you are running NT/2000, you will need a seperate machine to run Linux/mySQL and which then costs the same as SQL Server for an appropriate spec machine. I agree that_if_you have a decent Linux box already - mySQL is a good solution for sure, but beyond that I am intrigued by the possibilities for MSDE - anyone tried that? Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase?
I am going to download Interbase tonight and play around with it. Are there any gotchas other than needing to buy an odbc driver? jon - Original Message - From: "Howie Hamlin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
You could look at MySql -Free Except for the fact if you are running NT/2000, you will need a seperate machine to run Linux/mySQL and which then costs the same as SQL Server for an appropriate spec machine. mySQL has a Windows binary. And in any case you should really run your SQL server on a server separate from your web server. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
You can run MySQL on a win box. Windows versions of MySQL require a license. However, it is considerably less that SQL Server. http://www.abriasoft.com/products11.php has a Win32 compiled version. The standard version runs $109.00 One thing to consider with MySQL is that while it is supported on Linux and NT/2000, the databases are not compatible. MySQL saves the databases as files on the server. The files structure differences between Linux and NT/2000 makes it "virtually" impossible to simply move the database from one to the other. However, you could always create a new database on the one being move to and do a query update. You'll have to install the MySQL drivers on the NT/2000 box to use ODBC. CF does not natively handle MySQL DSN setup through CF Administrator on the NT/2000 platform, but you could create the datasources through the ODBC manager on the server. I believe there my be a tag in the Allaire tag gallery that will do this for you as well. Additionally, you can use Access to create your structures on MySQL through an ODBC connection. www.accessmysql.com ($30.00) John Lucas [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Adrian Cooper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Original Message - From: "JustinMacCarthy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:03 PM You could look at MySql -Free Except for the fact if you are running NT/2000, you will need a seperate machine to run Linux/mySQL and which then costs the same as SQL Server for an appropriate spec machine. I agree that_if_you have a decent Linux box already - mySQL is a good solution for sure, but beyond that I am intrigued by the possibilities for MSDE - anyone tried that? Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
There is a win32 port of it - mind you I am in NO WAY endorsing mySQL - I personally hate the product - just pointing out that you can run it on an NT/2k box. Shawnea Carter - Original Message - From: "Adrian Cooper" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: Re: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Original Message - From: "JustinMacCarthy" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 7:03 PM You could look at MySql -Free Except for the fact if you are running NT/2000, you will need a seperate machine to run Linux/mySQL and which then costs the same as SQL Server for an appropriate spec machine. I agree that_if_you have a decent Linux box already - mySQL is a good solution for sure, but beyond that I am intrigued by the possibilities for MSDE - anyone tried that? Adrian Cooper. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000
Has anyone confirmed that MSDE is limited compared to SQL Server? best, paul At 04:06 PM 2/22/01 -0700, you wrote: MSDE works great. Easy install from the Office Server Extensions disk. I use the Enterprise Manager on my MS SQL box to work on the tables. Seems to have the same performance as MS SQL. ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase?
Does Interbase support row-level locking??? ^ / \__ (@\___ / O /(_/ /_/ Whoof... 410-757-3487 -Original Message- From: Jon Hall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject:Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase? I am going to download Interbase tonight and play around with it. Are there any gotchas other than needing to buy an odbc driver? jon - Original Message - From: "Howie Hamlin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase?
Interbase supports versioning. http://community.borland.com/article/0,1410,23216,00.html HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Arden Weiss" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:55 PM Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase? Does Interbase support row-level locking??? ^ / \__ (@\___ / O /(_/ /_/ Whoof... 410-757-3487 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase?
Not that I know of. You may want to check out the following sites for more info: http://www.borland.com/interbase http://community.borland.com/interbase/ http://www.interbase2000.org Regards, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jon Hall" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase? I am going to download Interbase tonight and play around with it. Are there any gotchas other than needing to buy an odbc driver? jon - Original Message - From: "Howie Hamlin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase?
It's been an Interbase night for me. I am not a dba, but here is a quote from a slashdot post that may answer your question. "Regarding mySQL, yes, it is very fast for simple queries. For high-volume use it is less than ideal, though, as it implements concurrency control by locking entire tables. Postgres, Interbase and Oracle all implement concurrency control such that readers NEVER wait for writers, and writers only lock affected rows during a transaction (unless the user does a "select for update" or otherwise imposes a more stringent lock ). " I presume that the above quote means yes, it does support row level locking. I could be wrong though. My first experience with Interbase has been mostly positive. The only really annoying thing is that no odbc driver is included. This is supposed to be resolved in Q3 otf this year with a full open source odbc driver. I was able to find a free odbc driver though and am testing it now. There is also a cfx tag that replaces cfquery that can access Interbase db's natively. Hopefully though Allaire will include the ability to add Interbase odbc drivers through the cfadmin in the future. I have to do it manually via windows now. Although there is a gui client utility included it does not include any ability to create table's or fields. I have to use a third party utility to do this for now. These problems aside, so far it seems to be a very nice database and amazingly it is free. I would kinda describe it as a SQL Server lite. It does support transactions, stored procedures, and triggers... jon - Original Message - From: "Arden Weiss" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 9:55 PM Subject: RE: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase? Does Interbase support row-level locking??? ^ / \__ (@\___ / O /(_/ /_/ Whoof... 410-757-3487 -Original Message- From: Jon Hall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 8:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 - Interbase? I am going to download Interbase tonight and play around with it. Are there any gotchas other than needing to buy an odbc driver? jon - Original Message - From: "Howie Hamlin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 11:43 AM Subject: Re: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Interbase is free. www.borland.com/interbase. You'll have to get an ODBC driver - there are several to be found for around $100. HTH, Howie Hamlin - inFusion Project Manager On-Line Data Solutions, Inc. www.CoolFusion.com 631-737-4668 x101 inFusion Mail Server (iMS) - the World's most configurable mail server Get your free copy of iMS POST-SE Server from CoolFusion! - Original Message - From: "Jason Larson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "CF-Talk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:49 AM Subject: OT: Cheaper Alternative to SQL Server 2000 Sorry about the OT post. I was wondering if someone could give me some feedback on a cheaper alternative to SQL Server. I am on a limited budget to create my own webserver and I have only experience in developing with CF and SQL Server. I really can't afford the $5,000 that Microsoft wants for SQL Server 2000. Anybody have any suggestions? Thanks for your time Jason Larson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 406-728-4422 ~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
