Re: Good Linux books[Scanned]

2006-10-31 Thread Tom Chiverton
On Tuesday 31 October 2006 03:30, Dave Watts wrote:
 Honestly, I have no idea. I don't think you can get big OS X boxes, though.

There is a special server version of OS X that runs on serious server boxes.

-- 
Tom Chiverton
Helping to efficiently generate high-yield metrics



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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-31 Thread David Low
 From: Munson, Jacob [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 31 October 2006 16:17
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Good Linux books
 
 I'd agree, mainly because windows is a resource hog.  Why does Linux
 shared web hosting almos always cost less than Windows?  Because you
can
 stuff a lot more sites on a Linux server than a Windows server with
 identical hardware.  At least, that's what I've been told.

Of course the cost of the relevant Windows licensing would slightly
affect it too.


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Re: Good Linux books

2006-10-31 Thread Jordan Michaels
Dave Watts wrote:
would you guys say that Linux is good for running enterprise 
level web application?
 
 
 Absolutely. If you don't have any Windows-specific functionality
 requirements, I would say it's probably a better choice for web
 applications, assuming you're equally familiar with both platforms.
 
 If you're not equally familiar with both platforms, and you're not a system
 administrator, your best bet is to stick with the platform that you're
 familiar with, if you don't want to invest the (not insignificant) amount of
 time needed to learn another platform. After all, as far as your CF
 applications go, they're essentially platform-independent, so unless you're
 a system administrator you don't necessarily have to be too familiar with
 your production environment.
 
 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
 http://www.figleaf.com/

If you're not equally familiar with both platforms, and you're not a
system administrator, your best bet is to stick with the platform that
you're familiar with, if you don't want to invest the (not
insignificant) amount of time needed to learn another platform.

I can't believe you're advising this Dave! First of all, that's a lot of
if's. Second, what is the problem with knowing what your options are?
Obviously, someone who is looking for a Linux Book is interested in
taking the time to learn something new. Why are you advising them that
their best bet is to stick with Windows?

I can already hear your reply: That's not necessarily what I was
saying, but it is. Read between the ambiguity in the above message and
you'll hear It's okay to use windows because that's all you know.
That's a horrible philosophy! Rather, do everything you can to learn
what your options are. At least then you'll know enough to make an
informed decision about what's best for your company and your purposes.
DO NOT simply use something because that's all you know...

-- 
Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Blue Dragon Alliance Member
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-31 Thread Munson, Jacob
 Absolutely. If you don't have any Windows-specific functionality
 requirements, I would say it's probably a better choice for web
 applications, assuming you're equally familiar with both platforms.

I'd agree, mainly because windows is a resource hog.  Why does Linux
shared web hosting almos always cost less than Windows?  Because you can
stuff a lot more sites on a Linux server than a Windows server with
identical hardware.  At least, that's what I've been told.


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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-31 Thread Dave Watts
 I can't believe you're advising this Dave! First of all, 
 that's a lot of if's. Second, what is the problem with 
 knowing what your options are?

Any competent programmer should be able to evaluate that tiny bit of
conditional logic. And knowing what your options are doesn't require that
you be an expert on all of them.

For example, as a CF programmer, I deploy applications on Windows, Linux and
Solaris. However, I don't have to be a competent system administrator on any
of those platforms, to be a competent developer. I happen to be more
familiar with Windows, so I use that for the majority of my own development.
I haven't found any platform to be so clearly superior to warrant abandoning
the other platforms, and neither have our clients.

 Obviously, someone who is looking for a Linux Book is 
 interested in taking the time to learn something new. Why are 
 you advising them that their best bet is to stick with Windows?

Again, yes, you are misinterpreting my response. You are almost certainly
aware that learning another platform to a minimal degree of competency
requires a significant investment of time. Unless you want to learn how to
administer servers, it may make sense to invest your time in other things.
There aren't enough hours in the day to learn everything that's interesting
or useful. You have to pick your battles.

 I can already hear your reply: That's not necessarily what I 
 was saying, but it is. Read between the ambiguity in the 
 above message and you'll hear It's okay to use windows 
 because that's all you know.

There's no need to read between anything. There's no ambiguity. What I wrote
was pretty simple, despite its conditional logic. And, yes, it's ok to use
Windows because that's all you know, if you're a CF programmer. I submit to
you that, if you were to perform a cost-benefit analysis, most CF
programmers would find many other things more valuable than learning Linux -
learning SQL better would be a good start. Or maybe Flex 2. Or Java. Or
AJAX, etc.

 That's a horrible philosophy! Rather, do everything you can 
 to learn what your options are. At least then you'll know 
 enough to make an informed decision about what's best for 
 your company and your purposes. DO NOT simply use something 
 because that's all you know...

If you're a WEB PROGRAMMER, as opposed to a SERVER ADMINISTRATOR or
ENTERPRISE ARCHITECT or GUY IN CHARGE OF BUYING COMPUTERS, why in the hell
would you be making server infrastructure choices like that? What is so hard
to understand about this?

And if you are something else, in addition to being a web programmer, you'd
be a fool if you ignored existing investments in labor and infrastructure -
the value of all you know - to switch to Linux just because it's better.
It has to be better enough to justify throwing away those investments. In a
lot of cases, it just isn't that much better.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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Re: Good Linux books

2006-10-31 Thread Jordan Michaels
Dave,

I like you. You're obviously intelligent and you offer folks a lot of
good advice. I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on this one okay?

Enjoy the evening!

;)

-- 
Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Blue Dragon Alliance Member
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-31 Thread Dave Watts
 I like you. You're obviously intelligent and you offer folks 
 a lot of good advice. I'm just going to agree to disagree 
 with you on this one okay?
 
 Enjoy the evening!

You too!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-30 Thread Dave Watts
 This will probably turn into a heated debate, but yes, Linux 
 is good for running an enterprise level app, more so then 
 windows, but you need to know how to administer it.  It's 
 much harder to administer then windows, but once you set it 
 up properly, it usually keeps working, unlike windows, which 
 needs to be cared for like a little baby.

Properly configured and maintained, Windows servers keep working as well.
Honestly, it's not that hard. If Windows servers were half as hard to
maintain as you imply, I'd never be able to answer a single email here.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-30 Thread Dave Watts
 would you guys say that Linux is good for running enterprise 
 level web application?

Absolutely. If you don't have any Windows-specific functionality
requirements, I would say it's probably a better choice for web
applications, assuming you're equally familiar with both platforms.

If you're not equally familiar with both platforms, and you're not a system
administrator, your best bet is to stick with the platform that you're
familiar with, if you don't want to invest the (not insignificant) amount of
time needed to learn another platform. After all, as far as your CF
applications go, they're essentially platform-independent, so unless you're
a system administrator you don't necessarily have to be too familiar with
your production environment.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
up-to-date ColdFusion information by your peers, delivered to your door four 
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RE: Good Linux books[Scanned]

2006-10-30 Thread Henry Wright
What about running enterprise on Mac OSX server?

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, 31 October 2006 1:27 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: Good Linux books[Scanned]

 would you guys say that Linux is good for running enterprise 
 level web application?

Absolutely. If you don't have any Windows-specific functionality
requirements, I would say it's probably a better choice for web
applications, assuming you're equally familiar with both platforms.

If you're not equally familiar with both platforms, and you're not a
system
administrator, your best bet is to stick with the platform that you're
familiar with, if you don't want to invest the (not insignificant)
amount of
time needed to learn another platform. After all, as far as your CF
applications go, they're essentially platform-independent, so unless
you're
a system administrator you don't necessarily have to be too familiar
with
your production environment.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!



~|
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RE: Good Linux books[Scanned]

2006-10-30 Thread Dave Watts
 What about running enterprise on Mac OSX server?

Honestly, I have no idea. I don't think you can get big OS X boxes, though.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta,
Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location.
Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information!

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Re: OT: Good Linux books

2006-10-30 Thread David Livingston
  This is my favorite for folks that are new to Linux:
http://www.nerdbooks.com/item.php?id=1593270356

How Linux Works
by Ward, Brian

Read chapters 1,2,  4 and you will be well down the road of Linux  
basics.

Dave

On Oct 26, 2006, at 4:36 PM, Doug Brown wrote:

 Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the  
 group if anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux  
 before and figured a good book can help me get started. I would  
 like to run a web server off of it. P.S would you guys say that  
 Linux is good for running enterprise level web application?



 Thanks

 doug

 

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Re: OT: Good Linux books

2006-10-27 Thread Jordan Michaels
Doug Brown wrote:
 Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the group if 
 anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux before and figured a 
 good book can help me get started. I would like to run a web server off of 
 it. P.S would you guys say that Linux is good for running enterprise level 
 web application?
 
 
 
 Thanks
 
 doug

It's not a book, but I really appreciated linuxcommand.org. The command 
line in linux is where a lot of the power of Linux comes from. If you 
understand how to use the command line, then you're most of the way to 
becoming a good Linux system administrator. (The other half is 
understanding the servers you're working with, how you want them to 
work, etc.)

As someone who uses Linux exclusively for everything, I'd highly 
recommend that web site.

-- 
Warm regards,
Jordan Michaels
Vivio Technologies
http://www.viviotech.net/
Blue Dragon Alliance Member
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Good Linux books

2006-10-27 Thread Eric Haskins
We run some of our Enterprise things on RH 3  4 and we are moving more
over. Best way I found to learn was doing it grab an old pc hit
centos.orgdownload the ISO's and hammer away.  Many of your questions
can and will be
answered via google.com

As for books I am partial to the O'Rielly books
http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Nutshell-Fourth-Ellen-Siever/dp/0596004826/sr=8-4/qid=1161986636/ref=pd_bbs_4/104-8828353-1476710?ie=UTF8s=books

They also have a Linux Sysadmin book I liked.

If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask!!

Eric Haskins
Web Systems Developer


On 10/26/06, Doug Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the group
 if anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux before and
 figured a good book can help me get started. I would like to run a web
 server off of it. P.S would you guys say that Linux is good for running
 enterprise level web application?



 Thanks

 doug

 

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Re: OT: Good Linux books

2006-10-27 Thread Oğuz Demirkapı
If you are looking for a stable and reliable Linux version for your
server, I would definitely suggest Debian.

http://howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_debian_sarge


If you are new and want to try and learn Linux and test CF on a
Linux box, go with Ubuntu.

http://howtoforge.com/perfect_setup_ubuntu_6.10


If you are looking for online documentation and quick tutorials,
there are tons of it but you can also check http://howtoforge.com

IMHO


Oğuz Demirkapı



Eric Haskins wrote:
 We run some of our Enterprise things on RH 3  4 and we are moving more
 over. Best way I found to learn was doing it grab an old pc hit
 centos.orgdownload the ISO's and hammer away.  Many of your questions
 can and will be
 answered via google.com

 As for books I am partial to the O'Rielly books
 http://www.amazon.com/Linux-Nutshell-Fourth-Ellen-Siever/dp/0596004826/sr=8-4/qid=1161986636/ref=pd_bbs_4/104-8828353-1476710?ie=UTF8s=books

 They also have a Linux Sysadmin book I liked.

 If you have any questions dont hesitate to ask!!

 Eric Haskins
 Web Systems Developer


 On 10/26/06, Doug Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the group
 if anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux before and
 figured a good book can help me get started. I would like to run a web
 server off of it. P.S would you guys say that Linux is good for running
 enterprise level web application?



 Thanks

 doug


 

 

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OT: Good Linux books

2006-10-26 Thread Doug Brown
Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the group if 
anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux before and figured a 
good book can help me get started. I would like to run a web server off of it. 
P.S would you guys say that Linux is good for running enterprise level web 
application?



Thanks

doug

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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-26 Thread Russ
This will probably turn into a heated debate, but yes, Linux is good for
running an enterprise level app, more so then windows, but you need to know
how to administer it.  It's much harder to administer then windows, but once
you set it up properly, it usually keeps working, unlike windows, which
needs to be cared for like a little baby.  

Personally, I recommend using one of the RedHat flavors (Red Hat Enterprise
Linux, Fedora (the free version of RHEL from redhat), CentOS (the real free
version of RHEL)) etc.  

Install it, slap on webmin, and you're halfway there.  You'll need to learn
shell commands to be able to do anything useful though.  

I don't know any good linux books, but the Dummies series of books really
helped me out when I was just starting out with computers.  I would check
out what their Redhat book is like if I were you. 

Russ

 -Original Message-
 From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:36 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: OT: Good Linux books
 
 Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the group
 if anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux before and
 figured a good book can help me get started. I would like to run a web
 server off of it. P.S would you guys say that Linux is good for running
 enterprise level web application?
 
 
 
 Thanks
 
 doug
 
 

~|
Introducing the Fusion Authority Quarterly Update. 80 pages of hard-hitting,
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RE: Good Linux books

2006-10-26 Thread Munson, Jacob
I agree that Linux is great for enterprise apps, but it does take some
learning.  Personally, I have:
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runlinux5/ and
http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxnut5/

The first covers administration topics while the second is more of a
command reference.  I used these two books to study for the Linux+
certification a few years back (even though I've since forgotten most of
that stuff because I'm rusty).

 -Original Message-
 From: Russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:44 PM
 To: CF-Talk
 Subject: RE: Good Linux books
 
 This will probably turn into a heated debate, but yes, Linux 
 is good for
 running an enterprise level app, more so then windows, but 
 you need to know
 how to administer it.  It's much harder to administer then 
 windows, but once
 you set it up properly, it usually keeps working, unlike 
 windows, which
 needs to be cared for like a little baby.  
 
 Personally, I recommend using one of the RedHat flavors (Red 
 Hat Enterprise
 Linux, Fedora (the free version of RHEL from redhat), CentOS 
 (the real free
 version of RHEL)) etc.  
 
 Install it, slap on webmin, and you're halfway there.  You'll 
 need to learn
 shell commands to be able to do anything useful though.  
 
 I don't know any good linux books, but the Dummies series of 
 books really
 helped me out when I was just starting out with computers.  I 
 would check
 out what their Redhat book is like if I were you. 

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Re: Good Linux books

2006-10-26 Thread Oğuz Demirkapı
Here are some tutorials from me for GNU friends.  :)

ColdFusion 7.x Installation on Debian Sarge (3.1r1) Linux
http://howtoforge.com/coldfusion_installation_debian_sarge

ColdFusion 7.x  MySQL 4.1.x Connection
http://howtoforge.com/coldfusion7_mysql4.1_connection


Oğuz Demirkapı

   

Munson, Jacob wrote:
 I agree that Linux is great for enterprise apps, but it does take some
 learning.  Personally, I have:
 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/runlinux5/ and
 http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/linuxnut5/

 The first covers administration topics while the second is more of a
 command reference.  I used these two books to study for the Linux+
 certification a few years back (even though I've since forgotten most of
 that stuff because I'm rusty).

   



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Re: Good Linux books

2006-10-26 Thread Rob Wilkerson

  -Original Message-
  From: Doug Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 5:36 PM
  To: CF-Talk
  Subject: OT: Good Linux books
 
  Hi all..There is so many books out there, I thought I would ask the group
  if anyone can recommend a good one. I have never used Linux before and
  figured a good book can help me get started. I would like to run a web
  server off of it. P.S would you guys say that Linux is good for running
  enterprise level web application?

Linux is a terrific platform for running enterprise and small-scale
applications, but as others have mentioned, it does have a learning
curve.  There isn't a GUI for everything and, even if there is, most
server admins I know don't even install XWindows on servers.

The first book I bought when I really started getting into Linux was
The Complete Idiot's Guide to Linux and it was really quite good.
As you learn to maneuver around, I suspect you'll start relying more
heavily on Google, but that book was a good one for getting in the
door.

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