Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?
On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 16:28 US/Pacific, Greg Bullough wrote: > In doing so, you have not only hobbled a lot of development paradigms > where > people develop on Pro and deploy on Enterprise Clusters Given that the Developer Edition is effectively a dual-IP Enterprise version, I'm not quite sure how common your development paradigm would be? I'm not too familiar with how CF folks work in general... My team have Developer Edition installed on every desktop and laptop and have Enterprise Edition installed on all the shared servers (yeah, I know, we don't have to pay for it - I'm just reporting how we operate is all!). I'm genuinely curious about the setup most folks use... "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?
20 developers all happily doing CF development. We currently have v4.5 ENT, v5 ENT and MX servers in the mix, mostly on Windows with 1 or 2 Solaris thrown in for fun. Debating whether to take v4.5 apps to v5 or straight on to MX...hmmm, Friday morning in-house "CFUG" meeting should be interesting. In any event, we mostly work on development servers mirroring the production boxes. Being subject to the security regs of a larger organization, we're not supposed to be running web servers locally so *most* of us don't. Those that do tend to be running v5 Developer against Apache and MX Developer using the internal web server. The more we explore MX capabilities the less reason we see to move elsewhere...quite excited about where things are headed actually. Ken -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion? On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 16:28 US/Pacific, Greg Bullough wrote: > In doing so, you have not only hobbled a lot of development paradigms > where > people develop on Pro and deploy on Enterprise Clusters Given that the Developer Edition is effectively a dual-IP Enterprise version, I'm not quite sure how common your development paradigm would be? I'm not too familiar with how CF folks work in general... My team have Developer Edition installed on every desktop and laptop and have Enterprise Edition installed on all the shared servers (yeah, I know, we don't have to pay for it - I'm just reporting how we operate is all!). I'm genuinely curious about the setup most folks use... "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?
We run CFMX developer on local win2k pro machines with Apacheand we've got a CFMX/CF5 Enterprise on solaris for development staginga CFMX/CF5 Enterprise QA environment...and a second QA CFMX/CF5 environment that mimcs our production environment. Setup has faired quite well in the past...some minor trouble when developing on win2k and deploying on solaris...but nothing that a unix file format option can't fix in studio or DWMX. Stace -Original Message- From: Ken Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion? 20 developers all happily doing CF development. We currently have v4.5 ENT, v5 ENT and MX servers in the mix, mostly on Windows with 1 or 2 Solaris thrown in for fun. Debating whether to take v4.5 apps to v5 or straight on to MX...hmmm, Friday morning in-house "CFUG" meeting should be interesting. In any event, we mostly work on development servers mirroring the production boxes. Being subject to the security regs of a larger organization, we're not supposed to be running web servers locally so *most* of us don't. Those that do tend to be running v5 Developer against Apache and MX Developer using the internal web server. The more we explore MX capabilities the less reason we see to move elsewhere...quite excited about where things are headed actually. Ken -Original Message- From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 8:05 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion? On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 16:28 US/Pacific, Greg Bullough wrote: > In doing so, you have not only hobbled a lot of development paradigms > where > people develop on Pro and deploy on Enterprise Clusters Given that the Developer Edition is effectively a dual-IP Enterprise version, I'm not quite sure how common your development paradigm would be? I'm not too familiar with how CF folks work in general... My team have Developer Edition installed on every desktop and laptop and have Enterprise Edition installed on all the shared servers (yeah, I know, we don't have to pay for it - I'm just reporting how we operate is all!). I'm genuinely curious about the setup most folks use... "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?
Many other products have solved this by a small change in their licensing agreement. 1. Price the server product to cover 1 Production + 1 Development install for Price X. or 2. Price the server stand along at 5k, price a Production + Development License for 6.5k. The licensing agreement specifically details what can be done and not done on the Development licensure. IMHO, MM lowers the general quality of CF development by asking to get full price for Test and Development licensure of their product. I think most developers and IT managers will agree you need to maintain 3 distinct environments: Production, Test, and Development. And, these environments should mimic one another as much as possible, ie same software versions, OS, clusters, etc. Since most shops are not comfortable forking out 5k/box just for licensing of their test and development farms, they often simply choose not to have one, both, or choose not to replicate production clusters into the other 2 environments. Any of these scenarios places the developer into situation where they can not get a hands on feel of what is happening in the production environment. But, I'm sure MM has heard this rant over and over. Trey Rouse > -Original Message- > From: Greg Bullough [mailto:gwb@;outofchaos.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 6:00 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good > is the Job Market for ColdFusion? > > At 05:04 PM 10/16/02 -0700, Sean A Corfield wrote: > >On Wednesday, Oct 16, 2002, at 16:28 US/Pacific, Greg Bullough wrote: > > > In doing so, you have not only hobbled a lot of development paradigms > > > where > > > people develop on Pro and deploy on Enterprise Clusters > > > >Given that the Developer Edition is effectively a dual-IP Enterprise > >version, I'm not quite sure how common your development paradigm would > >be? I'm not too familiar with how CF folks work in general... > > Apparently. In OUR shop we have several development servers with different > OS platforms and versions of CF. Generally 4.5 and 5.0 on each of NT and > Linux. We do it this way because we find that running studio AND the > server > AND the DB on one (typical) desktop machine is not realistic. > > To restrict any of these machines to 'dual-IP Enterprise version' would > mean > about 1/3 of the people who need access to any one machine would actually > be able to GET access. > > Remember, these aren't deployed sites. They are development machines which > each host a subset of the dozens of DEPLOYED sites we have built and now > maintain. > > In effect, what you're saying is 'If your project is bigger than one that > requires > two developers, you're screwed with Developer edition. Spring for another > $5000.00 enterprise license, or buy your final license 90 days earlier.' > > Feh. > > >My team have Developer Edition installed on every desktop and laptop and > have > >Enterprise Edition installed on all the shared servers (yeah, I know, > >we don't have to pay for it - I'm just reporting how we operate is > >all!). > > Your team is, I believe, more of a marketing team, building demo and 'toy' > applications. > > A real 'enterprise' project is often going to want everyone on the same > development > box, seeing the same development database, and running full-out. It used > to be > you could use Pro for that purpose. > > Yes there is the Partner program with it's full NFR licenses, but the > Partner > program has become less palatable over the last couple years as well... > > Greg > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?)
So has nobody asked about or wanted to do this before? It seems reasonable to want to see how the configuration of a cluster might behave before deploying or recommending it. How do others do this? Is it just a buy and hope it works situation? I'm not trying to pick another fight, I'm just curious how people can learn about how it works without shelling out thousands of dollars. -Kevin > -Original Message- > From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts@;figleaf.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:51 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How > Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?) > > > > If the Developer version is just the Enterprise version with an IP > > restriction, does the Developer version support: > > > > - JSP/servlets include > > - JSP/servlet execution > > - Server Sandbox Security > > - Application deployment services > > - System monitoring > > - Type IV drivers for Oracle, DB2, Sybase, and Informix > > It supports all of those things, just like Enterprise. > > > - Dynamic load balancing > > - Automatic server failover > > - Service-level failover > > - Visual cluster administration > > I'm not sure about these. For obvious reasons, these aren't commonly used > with Developer Edition. The clustering support is provided through > ClusterCATS, which is essentially a separate install with CFMX, > if I recall > correctly, and it's on the Enterprise CD. So, I don't know if you > have those > available at all with Developer Edition, since that doesn't come on a CD. > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > http://www.figleaf.com/ > voice: (202) 797-5496 > fax: (202) 797-5444 > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?)
> So has nobody asked about or wanted to do this before? > It seems reasonable to want to see how the configuration > of a cluster might behave before deploying or recommending > it. How do others do this? Is it just a buy and hope it > works situation? > > I'm not trying to pick another fight, I'm just curious how > people can learn about how it works without shelling out > thousands of dollars. To be honest, I haven't played with clustering functionality using CFMX. With CF 5, you could simply download a ClusterCATS installer from the MM site, and install that on top of your Developers Edition. That may still be the case with CFMX. In any case, I suspect that your local MM sales representative would be happy to get you whatever trial software you need - they like selling server licenses for clusters, I'm sure! Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?)
Belated thanks to both you and Dave. -Kevin > -Original Message- > From: Vernon Viehe [mailto:vviehe@;macromedia.com] > Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:41 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How > Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?) > > > Dave's right in that some of the items listed do involve other > installations, so not a feature of the Dev edition. Sorry I missed that. > > -Vern > > -Original Message- > From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts@;figleaf.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:51 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Pro v Enterprise? (was: The Hidden CF factor was RE: How > Good is the Job Market for ColdFusion?) > > > > If the Developer version is just the Enterprise version with an IP > > restriction, does the Developer version support: > > > > - JSP/servlets include > > - JSP/servlet execution > > - Server Sandbox Security > > - Application deployment services > > - System monitoring > > - Type IV drivers for Oracle, DB2, Sybase, and Informix > > It supports all of those things, just like Enterprise. > > > - Dynamic load balancing > > - Automatic server failover > > - Service-level failover > > - Visual cluster administration > > I'm not sure about these. For obvious reasons, these aren't commonly used > with Developer Edition. The clustering support is provided through > ClusterCATS, which is essentially a separate install with CFMX, > if I recall > correctly, and it's on the Enterprise CD. So, I don't know if you > have those > available at all with Developer Edition, since that doesn't come on a CD. > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > http://www.figleaf.com/ > voice: (202) 797-5496 > fax: (202) 797-5444 > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists&body=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
