RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-21 Thread Dave Merrill
Bruce A. Bergman wrote:
> Last year I embarked on a journey to find the best low-cost 
> database design 
> tool, and after about six trial versions, I was down to DDS and 
> CharonWare's 
> CaseStudio.  Eventually I chose CaseStudio, mainly because of the 
> quality of 
> the product and features.  There was a couple things I liked about DDS 
> better, but overall CaseStudio won out.  I rolled this out to my 
> entire team 
> (six developers) and everyone loves it.
> 
> www.casestudio.com

Bruce, could you say some more about what made CaseStudio win out over DDS?

Dave Merrill


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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-21 Thread S . Isaac Dealey
>> Yeah, it is... I personally don't think it's a good
>> thing, but I can
>> certainly understand the motivations of people who attack
>> open source
>> projects. I would think they'd have to fall into two
>> categories -- the
>> first being the same sort of motivations that drive some
>> teenagers to
>> pull the wings off of flies (or write viruses) and the
>> second being
>> people who are threatened by the project. I would venture
>> a guess that
>> the attacks probably originated with someone who owns or
>> works for a
>> company producing a competing commercial product and
>> who's seen their
>> paying customers dropping their product in favor of this
>> free
>> alternative.

> Not that I really know anything, but I'd be surprised if
> any company felt
> that threatened, and if they did, thought that snipes like
> this would have
> much effect in the long run. IMO the random vandals theory
> is much more
> likely.

> Dave Merrill

You may be right, although I'd expect it would depend on the size of
the company as well... it could be a lone developer who's built his
whole career around a particular product only to see his sole source
of income rapidly eroded by an open source project. May not be as
likely -- but then there are plenty of lone developers who fit that
description (of course, we hope most of them channel their energies
more constructively).


s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?

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the onTap open source framework

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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-21 Thread Dave Merrill
> Yeah, it is... I personally don't think it's a good thing, but I can
> certainly understand the motivations of people who attack open source
> projects. I would think they'd have to fall into two categories -- the
> first being the same sort of motivations that drive some teenagers to
> pull the wings off of flies (or write viruses) and the second being
> people who are threatened by the project. I would venture a guess that
> the attacks probably originated with someone who owns or works for a
> company producing a competing commercial product and who's seen their
> paying customers dropping their product in favor of this free
> alternative.

Not that I really know anything, but I'd be surprised if any company felt
that threatened, and if they did, thought that snipes like this would have
much effect in the long run. IMO the random vandals theory is much more
likely.

Dave Merrill



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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-21 Thread Dave Merrill
> Last year I embarked on a journey to find the best low-cost
> database design
> tool, and after about six trial versions, I was down to DDS and
> CharonWare's
> CaseStudio.  Eventually I chose CaseStudio, mainly because of the
> quality of
> the product and features.  There was a couple things I liked about DDS
> better, but overall CaseStudio won out.  I rolled this out to my
> entire team
> (six developers) and everyone loves it.
>
> www.casestudio.com

Thanks for this, looks cool. Support for *lots* of dbs too. A little pricier
than DDS, but not much.


> Two related notes: Oracle JDeveloper is a free download, and
> contains a very
> nice UML-notation data modeling tool.

Is JDeveloper really free, as in, not demo-ware or cripple-ware, but free
for commercial use? Is it appropriate for general purpose system modeling,
not making use of its Oracle-db-and-ADF-specific java generation?

I'd think that if that's true, it'd be cool, not having tried it. I wouldn't
expect any low-cost alternatives to match an Oracle product for features or
stability. Or am I just buying the hype?

Dave Merrill



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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-21 Thread S . Isaac Dealey
> We simply cannot understand the sick motivation of people
> to attack Open Source projects.



> Sad about the attacks, and lack of a support forum.

Yeah, it is... I personally don't think it's a good thing, but I can
certainly understand the motivations of people who attack open source
projects. I would think they'd have to fall into two categories -- the
first being the same sort of motivations that drive some teenagers to
pull the wings off of flies (or write viruses) and the second being
people who are threatened by the project. I would venture a guess that
the attacks probably originated with someone who owns or works for a
company producing a competing comercial product and who's seen their
paying customers dropping their product in favor of this free
alternative. This is the first time I've heard mention of an OS
project being attacked directly, though unfortunately I dont' find it
especially surprising. Hopefully this sort of thing won't become
wide-spread in the coming years.


s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080
new epoch : isn't it time for a change?

add features without fixtures with
the onTap open source framework

http://www.fusiontap.com
http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm


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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-21 Thread Dave Merrill
> I use dbdesigner by fabforce
>
> Fabforce.net
>
> Open source project ;)
>
> Pat

It does look good, thanks for the link.

Did notice the following when I went to take a look at their forums:

---
Dear DBDesigner4 users,

Due to several attacks against the DBDesigner4 forum it has now been closed
down.
We simply cannot understand the sick motivation of people to attack Open
Source projects.
So please understand that we will not provide any support from now on.

We will continue to host the DBD4 download till the release of the MySQL
Workbench,
its successor application that will be an official MySQL product. Then this
project will rest in peace.

Best regards,
fabFORCE.net team
---

Sad about the attacks, and lack of a support forum. It's also not completely
clear to me what exactly will happen when it becomes "an official MySQL
product." Still free? Any idea when that'll happen?

Dave Merrill



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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread CFDEV
Yes it's better with mysql but works also through ODBC with other DB.. I
personnaly use it as well with oracle and for a free tool, it's doing the
job..

Pat 

-Original Message-
From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: May 20, 2005 19:33
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

Looks like it only works with MySQL and I use MS SQL.

-Original Message-
From: CFDEV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software


I use dbdesigner by fabforce 

Fabforce.net

Open source project ;)

Pat 

-Original Message-
From: Dave Merrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: May 20, 2005 16:40
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

Haven't gotten around to actually trying it, but DDS-Lite looks good:
http://www.dds-lite.com/

Interesting bullets from their feature list:

---
- Enhanced Entity Relationship Diagram modeling allows you to design a fully
relational database, complete with Cascading Referential Integrity
Constraints, Indexes, Checks, Defaults and Unique constraints.

- Data Structure Diagram that is created automatically from the Enhanced
Entity Relationship Diagram shows the complete table structure.

- Data Definition Language (DDL) Scripts for creating, dropping and loading
the database can be quickly and easily generated for all of the supported
database servers.

- Cross DBMS Target Compatibility allows you to design once and create for
all. No need to concern yourself with vendor specific variations to SQL
syntax. All is handled by the application.

- Supports All Major Databases including Oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Informix,
Sybase (ASA and ASE), MySQL, PostgreSQL, Interbase, Access, SQLBase, Ingres,
ANSI and Pervasive SQL.

- Template Language to define the Data Definition Language scripts allows
you to create the scripts exactly as you want them.

- Java Source Code can be created directly from the Enhanced Entity
Relationship Diagram to contain the Data Definition Language for any of the
supported database targets. Source code can be compiled and executed from
within the DDS-Lite environment.
---

The $100 version doesn't do views, procedures, triggers, reverse engineering
from existing dbs, or splitting big projects into multiple models. The $400
version does.

Dave Merrill


> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
>
> Andy









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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Andy Ousterhout
I don't see a version that I can buy solo that creates DDL.  What am I
missing?  I own Professional.

Andy

-Original Message-
From: Dawson, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software


Yeah, I would say Visio.  (I personally use ER/Studio, but it is a bit
pricy, too.)

M!ke 

-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 2:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

Visio




Michael T. Tangorre 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:46 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software
> 
> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 





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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Andy Ousterhout
Looks like it only works with MySQL and I use MS SQL.

-Original Message-
From: CFDEV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:31 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software


I use dbdesigner by fabforce 

Fabforce.net

Open source project ;)

Pat 

-Original Message-
From: Dave Merrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: May 20, 2005 16:40
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

Haven't gotten around to actually trying it, but DDS-Lite looks good:
http://www.dds-lite.com/

Interesting bullets from their feature list:

---
- Enhanced Entity Relationship Diagram modeling allows you to design a fully
relational database, complete with Cascading Referential Integrity
Constraints, Indexes, Checks, Defaults and Unique constraints.

- Data Structure Diagram that is created automatically from the Enhanced
Entity Relationship Diagram shows the complete table structure.

- Data Definition Language (DDL) Scripts for creating, dropping and loading
the database can be quickly and easily generated for all of the supported
database servers.

- Cross DBMS Target Compatibility allows you to design once and create for
all. No need to concern yourself with vendor specific variations to SQL
syntax. All is handled by the application.

- Supports All Major Databases including Oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Informix,
Sybase (ASA and ASE), MySQL, PostgreSQL, Interbase, Access, SQLBase, Ingres,
ANSI and Pervasive SQL.

- Template Language to define the Data Definition Language scripts allows
you to create the scripts exactly as you want them.

- Java Source Code can be created directly from the Enhanced Entity
Relationship Diagram to contain the Data Definition Language for any of the
supported database targets. Source code can be compiled and executed from
within the DDS-Lite environment.
---

The $100 version doesn't do views, procedures, triggers, reverse engineering
from existing dbs, or splitting big projects into multiple models. The $400
version does.

Dave Merrill


> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
>
> Andy







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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Dawson, Michael
Yeah, I would say Visio.  (I personally use ER/Studio, but it is a bit
pricy, too.)

M!ke 

-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 2:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

Visio




Michael T. Tangorre 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:46 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software
> 
> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 



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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Andy Ousterhout
I've got VISIO, imports, but won't create DDL's in any of the stand-alone
versions.

-Original Message-
From: Michael T. Tangorre 

Visio


> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ousterhout 

> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 



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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread CFDEV
I use dbdesigner by fabforce 

Fabforce.net

Open source project ;)

Pat 

-Original Message-
From: Dave Merrill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: May 20, 2005 16:40
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

Haven't gotten around to actually trying it, but DDS-Lite looks good:
http://www.dds-lite.com/

Interesting bullets from their feature list:

---
- Enhanced Entity Relationship Diagram modeling allows you to design a fully
relational database, complete with Cascading Referential Integrity
Constraints, Indexes, Checks, Defaults and Unique constraints.

- Data Structure Diagram that is created automatically from the Enhanced
Entity Relationship Diagram shows the complete table structure.

- Data Definition Language (DDL) Scripts for creating, dropping and loading
the database can be quickly and easily generated for all of the supported
database servers.

- Cross DBMS Target Compatibility allows you to design once and create for
all. No need to concern yourself with vendor specific variations to SQL
syntax. All is handled by the application.

- Supports All Major Databases including Oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Informix,
Sybase (ASA and ASE), MySQL, PostgreSQL, Interbase, Access, SQLBase, Ingres,
ANSI and Pervasive SQL.

- Template Language to define the Data Definition Language scripts allows
you to create the scripts exactly as you want them.

- Java Source Code can be created directly from the Enhanced Entity
Relationship Diagram to contain the Data Definition Language for any of the
supported database targets. Source code can be compiled and executed from
within the DDS-Lite environment.
---

The $100 version doesn't do views, procedures, triggers, reverse engineering
from existing dbs, or splitting big projects into multiple models. The $400
version does.

Dave Merrill


> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
>
> Andy





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Re: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Aaron Rouse
That one sounds nice, the only bad thing about it is all of our data models 
need triggers here so would have to get the more expensive one for that. Not 
really a terrible thing since would want to do the views and SPs from time 
to time anyway.

On 5/20/05, Dave Merrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> Haven't gotten around to actually trying it, but DDS-Lite looks good:
> http://www.dds-lite.com/
> 
> Interesting bullets from their feature list:
> 
> ---
> - Enhanced Entity Relationship Diagram modeling allows you to design a 
> fully
> relational database, complete with Cascading Referential Integrity
> Constraints, Indexes, Checks, Defaults and Unique constraints.
> 
> - Data Structure Diagram that is created automatically from the Enhanced
> Entity Relationship Diagram shows the complete table structure.
> 
> - Data Definition Language (DDL) Scripts for creating, dropping and 
> loading
> the database can be quickly and easily generated for all of the supported
> database servers.
> 
> - Cross DBMS Target Compatibility allows you to design once and create for
> all. No need to concern yourself with vendor specific variations to SQL
> syntax. All is handled by the application.
> 
> - Supports All Major Databases including Oracle, DB2, SQL Server, 
> Informix,
> Sybase (ASA and ASE), MySQL, PostgreSQL, Interbase, Access, SQLBase, 
> Ingres,
> ANSI and Pervasive SQL.
> 
> - Template Language to define the Data Definition Language scripts allows
> you to create the scripts exactly as you want them.
> 
> - Java Source Code can be created directly from the Enhanced Entity
> Relationship Diagram to contain the Data Definition Language for any of 
> the
> supported database targets. Source code can be compiled and executed from
> within the DDS-Lite environment.
> ---
> 
> The $100 version doesn't do views, procedures, triggers, reverse 
> engineering
> from existing dbs, or splitting big projects into multiple models. The 
> $400
> version does.
> 
> Dave Merrill
> 
> 
>


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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Dave Merrill
Haven't gotten around to actually trying it, but DDS-Lite looks good:
http://www.dds-lite.com/

Interesting bullets from their feature list:

---
- Enhanced Entity Relationship Diagram modeling allows you to design a fully
relational database, complete with Cascading Referential Integrity
Constraints, Indexes, Checks, Defaults and Unique constraints.

- Data Structure Diagram that is created automatically from the Enhanced
Entity Relationship Diagram shows the complete table structure.

- Data Definition Language (DDL) Scripts for creating, dropping and loading
the database can be quickly and easily generated for all of the supported
database servers.

- Cross DBMS Target Compatibility allows you to design once and create for
all. No need to concern yourself with vendor specific variations to SQL
syntax. All is handled by the application.

- Supports All Major Databases including Oracle, DB2, SQL Server, Informix,
Sybase (ASA and ASE), MySQL, PostgreSQL, Interbase, Access, SQLBase, Ingres,
ANSI and Pervasive SQL.

- Template Language to define the Data Definition Language scripts allows
you to create the scripts exactly as you want them.

- Java Source Code can be created directly from the Enhanced Entity
Relationship Diagram to contain the Data Definition Language for any of the
supported database targets. Source code can be compiled and executed from
within the DDS-Lite environment.
---

The $100 version doesn't do views, procedures, triggers, reverse engineering
from existing dbs, or splitting big projects into multiple models. The $400
version does.

Dave Merrill


> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
>
> Andy



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Re: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Aaron Rouse
Will Visio build all the SQL scripts needed to build the DB? If so, will it 
do it for databases other than MSSQL?

On 5/20/05, Michael T. Tangorre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> Visio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Michael T. Tangorre
> 
> 
> 
>


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RE: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Michael T. Tangorre
Visio




Michael T. Tangorre 

 

> -Original Message-
> From: Andy Ousterhout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:46 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software
> 
> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 

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Re: DB Design, Engineering & Re-Engineering Software

2005-05-20 Thread Aaron Rouse
I have been using a program called DeZign with pretty good success. If you 
want to import an existing database model you have to buy their importing 
tool as well. Both put together in cost are not a huge amount of money 
though. 

On 5/20/05, Andy Ousterhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> Any recommendations on DB software much less expensive then Erwin?
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> 

~|
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