RE: Geographical redundancy?
BoardWatch Magazine publishes a summary of country-wide backbone
providers once or twice a year. If you look specifically for this
publication you can get a good overview of which networks connect to
which cities and NAPs ("MAE-East" is a NAP).
Personally, I don't think you're really looking for a solution like
this in the end. You might want to consider pooling data locally at your
collection centers and, as someone already mentioned, replicate this
data to a central source. Then, if you choose to use a web interface
for collection and display of this data, you can have multiple
webservers, each local to the pooled data, and a master server residing
over the central data. With this model, the central repository's
reports could conceivably be impaired by net traffic, but the local
centers, where the data is entered, will remain up to date and
functioning regardless of disasters in other locations or loss of
connectivity.
Good Fortune,
Richard Walters,
Webmaster, Davita Laboratory Services
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(800) 604-5227 x 3525
>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/12/02 01:16PM >>>
Exodus is now owned by Cable & Wireless. C & W also bought Digital
Island, so they have some great technology for distribute web sites.
Global Crossing is another Enron, so you best stay away. AboveNet,
which
was always owned by Metromedia Fiber Network (MFN); has been sucked
back
into the parent company. MFN has had and continues to have one of the
best IP networks in the world. Their claim to fame is also that they
run
the MAEs. UUnet has a great network, but they are part of WorldCom,
which is having serious trouble theses days. Savvis has some really
nice
offerings and has weathered the downturn thanks to their monopoly on
finical services networks that their parent company Bridge gave them.
Level3 Communications also has some good stuff these days.
There are plenty of other ISPs and hosting providers, but they really
can't compete with the above list.
-Matt
> -Original Message-
> From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:59 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy?
>
> You'll need to rely on one of the larger ISP/hosting providers for
this,
> it
> won't be cheap. Exodus (are they still around?), is an example of a
well
> known provider that can accommodate you. Their NOC's (network
operation
> center) are notoriously renowned as being the biggest and the
baddest
> (including guards armed with AR15's back in the "dot com hay days").
> You'll
> also want to do a little research on your hosting provider's
providers
-
> they should have redundant uplinks to at least two of the larger
pipes
> (abovenet, UUNet, gblX, etc). They should provide you with evidence
of
> their
> uptime (MRTG charting) - as you see downtimes for one routing
interface,
> there should be significant jumps for the others to show that
they're
in
> fact picking up the slack. This is what I believe the CCIE
certifications
> were meant to teach people - becoming conversant with the various
> protocols
> (OSPF, RIP, HSRP, insert TLA here) and how to configure them to make
the
> Beast happy.
>
> As for keeping your application/database transactions synchronized,
that
> could fill a book in it's own right. You're better off dumping the
> responsibility onto somebody that's done it before.
>
> When everything is set up, you'll want to document and test a
disaster
> recovery plan.
>
> Adam.
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:05 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Geographical redundancy?
> >
> >
> >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office
management
> > application which will be used in an ASP (application
> > service provider -
> > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that
the
> > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major
> > disaster (natural
> > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data,
> > and only a
> > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application.
> > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity
> > problems on
> > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime
> > when a hurricane
> > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years
ago.
> > For this application, that wouldn't have been
acceptable.
> >
> > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas?
> >
> >
> > Al
> > a1webs.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
RE: Geographical redundancy?
Exodus is now owned by Cable & Wireless. C & W also bought Digital Island, so they have some great technology for distribute web sites. Global Crossing is another Enron, so you best stay away. AboveNet, which was always owned by Metromedia Fiber Network (MFN); has been sucked back into the parent company. MFN has had and continues to have one of the best IP networks in the world. Their claim to fame is also that they run the MAEs. UUnet has a great network, but they are part of WorldCom, which is having serious trouble theses days. Savvis has some really nice offerings and has weathered the downturn thanks to their monopoly on finical services networks that their parent company Bridge gave them. Level3 Communications also has some good stuff these days. There are plenty of other ISPs and hosting providers, but they really can't compete with the above list. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Cantrell, Adam [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:59 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > You'll need to rely on one of the larger ISP/hosting providers for this, > it > won't be cheap. Exodus (are they still around?), is an example of a well > known provider that can accommodate you. Their NOC's (network operation > center) are notoriously renowned as being the biggest and the baddest > (including guards armed with AR15's back in the "dot com hay days"). > You'll > also want to do a little research on your hosting provider's providers - > they should have redundant uplinks to at least two of the larger pipes > (abovenet, UUNet, gblX, etc). They should provide you with evidence of > their > uptime (MRTG charting) - as you see downtimes for one routing interface, > there should be significant jumps for the others to show that they're in > fact picking up the slack. This is what I believe the CCIE certifications > were meant to teach people - becoming conversant with the various > protocols > (OSPF, RIP, HSRP, insert TLA here) and how to configure them to make the > Beast happy. > > As for keeping your application/database transactions synchronized, that > could fill a book in it's own right. You're better off dumping the > responsibility onto somebody that's done it before. > > When everything is set up, you'll want to document and test a disaster > recovery plan. > > Adam. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:05 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Geographical redundancy? > > > > > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office management > > application which will be used in an ASP (application > > service provider - > > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that the > > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major > > disaster (natural > > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, > > and only a > > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity > > problems on > > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime > > when a hurricane > > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years ago. > > For this application, that wouldn't have been acceptable. > > > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > > > > Al > > a1webs.com > > > > > > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front > > end... and either > > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the > > database cluster. > > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering > > CF with Alteons > > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and > > make sure the > > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > > > > __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
You'll need to rely on one of the larger ISP/hosting providers for this, it won't be cheap. Exodus (are they still around?), is an example of a well known provider that can accommodate you. Their NOC's (network operation center) are notoriously renowned as being the biggest and the baddest (including guards armed with AR15's back in the "dot com hay days"). You'll also want to do a little research on your hosting provider's providers - they should have redundant uplinks to at least two of the larger pipes (abovenet, UUNet, gblX, etc). They should provide you with evidence of their uptime (MRTG charting) - as you see downtimes for one routing interface, there should be significant jumps for the others to show that they're in fact picking up the slack. This is what I believe the CCIE certifications were meant to teach people - becoming conversant with the various protocols (OSPF, RIP, HSRP, insert TLA here) and how to configure them to make the Beast happy. As for keeping your application/database transactions synchronized, that could fill a book in it's own right. You're better off dumping the responsibility onto somebody that's done it before. When everything is set up, you'll want to document and test a disaster recovery plan. Adam. > -Original Message- > From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:05 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Geographical redundancy? > > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office management > application which will be used in an ASP (application > service provider - > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that the > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major > disaster (natural > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, > and only a > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity > problems on > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime > when a hurricane > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years ago. > For this application, that wouldn't have been acceptable. > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > Al > a1webs.com > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front > end... and either > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the > database cluster. > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering > CF with Alteons > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and > make sure the > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
There are a ton of ISPs that already do this. In fact, every major ISP in the world does it. There are a good number of consultants in the world also that are available to set up your application. However, this stuff is not cheap or easy to do. As far as I know, I am the only one who has ever setup a CF application in this kind of environment. It's just a fact that most CF applications never have the requirement, the expertise, or the money to do something like this. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 9:00 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > This actually looks like a great business opportunity for some of the > ISPs on this list to work together on. I got private email from a bunch > of > people offering to handle the hosting.. but none of their websites > actually > mention something like geographic redundancy. > >It could be a new high end product to offer your customers. By working > out agreements with a few other ISPs around the country, you wouldn't need > to invest any more money... I am sure this can be turned into a big > market. Anyone with an e-commerce application would be foolish not to > participate if the prices were not astronomical.Some of my current > customers would probably pay at least double or triple their existing > hosting fees to have a second hosting location for redundancy. > > The big problem is figuring out HOW to do it. > > Obviously, if 3 or more areas of the country are wiped out in a nuclear > attack simuletaneously, we aren't going to care much if a day's worth of > data is lost. > > Al > > __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
This actually looks like a great business opportunity for some of the ISPs on this list to work together on. I got private email from a bunch of people offering to handle the hosting.. but none of their websites actually mention something like geographic redundancy. It could be a new high end product to offer your customers. By working out agreements with a few other ISPs around the country, you wouldn't need to invest any more money... I am sure this can be turned into a big market. Anyone with an e-commerce application would be foolish not to participate if the prices were not astronomical.Some of my current customers would probably pay at least double or triple their existing hosting fees to have a second hosting location for redundancy. The big problem is figuring out HOW to do it. Obviously, if 3 or more areas of the country are wiped out in a nuclear attack simuletaneously, we aren't going to care much if a day's worth of data is lost. Al __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
Hehe, you need better contract writers. We ship the systems to Denver and then fly over to set them up. It's all in the contract. Free ski trip. :) jon Matt Liotta wrote: > I wish! Generally, you setup the servers and then crate them up and ship > to the data centers. > > -Matt > > >>-Original Message- >>From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 7:20 PM >>To: CF-Talk >>Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? >> >>Let's not forget the best reason for geographic redundancy. You get to >>take a trip to wherever you want to set up the servers and > > application, > >>and the client pays for it :) >> >>jon >> >> > > __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
I wish! Generally, you setup the servers and then crate them up and ship to the data centers. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Jon Hall [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 7:20 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? > > Let's not forget the best reason for geographic redundancy. You get to > take a trip to wherever you want to set up the servers and application, > and the client pays for it :) > > jon > > __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
Let's not forget the best reason for geographic redundancy. You get to take a trip to wherever you want to set up the servers and application, and the client pays for it :) jon __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
The multi-way commit only happens on servers that are available. When additionally servers come online they have to sync up with the rest before serving users. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Jim McAtee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 4:38 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? > > That sounds very well, but what's the course of action if one or more > servers/networks is offline? It can't scuttle the transaction, can it? > If > so, you end up with a system that is actually N times more vulnerable to > downtime. > > Jim > > > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:19 PM > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > > > That is why some go with a multi-way commit. This ensures that a > > transaction can not be completed until it is committed on all servers. > > > > -Matt > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 12:13 PM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > > > > > At 11:42 AM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > > > > What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? > > > >That > > > > > seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do > > consistent > > > > > backups > > > > > to some remote location on the other side of the world. > > > > > > > > >You would need to do real time replication or a multi-way commit type > > > >setup, so you can have transactional integrity across servers that > > are > > > >regionally separated. > > > > > > It makes sense. Although, I'd be hard-pressed to guarantee that > > there > > > would be no loss of data. ( It depends how real-time the replication > > is > > > ). > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Need a Web Developer? Contact me! > > > AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 > > > -- > > > My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com > > > My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com > > > > > > > > > __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
That sounds very well, but what's the course of action if one or more servers/networks is offline? It can't scuttle the transaction, can it? If so, you end up with a system that is actually N times more vulnerable to downtime. Jim - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 1:19 PM Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > That is why some go with a multi-way commit. This ensures that a > transaction can not be completed until it is committed on all servers. > > -Matt > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 12:13 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > > > At 11:42 AM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > > > What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? > > >That > > > > seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do > consistent > > > > backups > > > > to some remote location on the other side of the world. > > > > > > >You would need to do real time replication or a multi-way commit type > > >setup, so you can have transactional integrity across servers that > are > > >regionally separated. > > > > It makes sense. Although, I'd be hard-pressed to guarantee that > there > > would be no loss of data. ( It depends how real-time the replication > is > > ). > > > > > > -- > > Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Need a Web Developer? Contact me! > > AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 > > -- > > My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com > > My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com > > > > > __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
Aww... Very cool. I've never built an application that had such hefty requirements. ( but for those few that do...) At 12:19 PM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: >That is why some go with a multi-way commit. This ensures that a >transaction can not be completed until it is committed on all servers. > >-Matt > > > -Original Message- > > From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 12:13 PM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > > > At 11:42 AM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > > > What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? > > >That > > > > seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do >consistent > > > > backups > > > > to some remote location on the other side of the world. > > > > > > >You would need to do real time replication or a multi-way commit type > > >setup, so you can have transactional integrity across servers that >are > > >regionally separated. > > > > It makes sense. Although, I'd be hard-pressed to guarantee that >there > > would be no loss of data. ( It depends how real-time the replication >is > > ). > > > > > > -- > > Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Need a Web Developer? Contact me! > > AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 > > -- > > My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com > > My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com > > > > > __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
That is why some go with a multi-way commit. This ensures that a transaction can not be completed until it is committed on all servers. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Jeffry Houser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 12:13 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > At 11:42 AM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > > What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? > >That > > > seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do consistent > > > backups > > > to some remote location on the other side of the world. > > > > >You would need to do real time replication or a multi-way commit type > >setup, so you can have transactional integrity across servers that are > >regionally separated. > > It makes sense. Although, I'd be hard-pressed to guarantee that there > would be no loss of data. ( It depends how real-time the replication is > ). > > > -- > Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Need a Web Developer? Contact me! > AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 > -- > My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com > My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com > > __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
At 11:42 AM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: > > What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? >That > > seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do consistent > > backups > > to some remote location on the other side of the world. > > >You would need to do real time replication or a multi-way commit type >setup, so you can have transactional integrity across servers that are >regionally separated. It makes sense. Although, I'd be hard-pressed to guarantee that there would be no loss of data. ( It depends how real-time the replication is ). -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Web Developer? Contact me! AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
Most sites that do this use significantly more than 2 hosts. Most actually have hosts spread all over the world. It is actually quite amazing the scalability you can get when you start to spread traffic all over the world. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 12:03 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? > > Well maybe if they have 2 hosts that they can use, and have only > one be live and the other just be sitting there getting updates to > transactions that are processed. Then when (A) went down (B) could > come up. The hosts would most likely need to be several hunred > miles away from eachother though. > > > > > Douglas Brown > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:40 AM > Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > > > > Sure they can. It is hard and expensive, but yes, they can. > > > > -Matt > > > > > -Original Message----- > > > From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:38 AM > > > To: CF-Talk > > > Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? > > > > > > I would not get into something like that with a client. If you > do, > > > you are putting your head on the chopping block due to the > fact > > > that not all disasters or outages can be avoided. Like the > poster > > > before said, you need something like disaster clause > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Brown > > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:04 AM > > > Subject: Geographical redundancy? > > > > > > > > > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office > > > management > > > > application which will be used in an ASP (application > service > > > provider - > > > > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is > that > > > the > > > > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major > disaster > > > (natural > > > > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any > data, > > > and only a > > > > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > > > > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity > > > problems on > > > > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime > when a > > > hurricane > > > > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few > years > > > ago. > > > > For this application, that wouldn't have been > > > acceptable. > > > > > > > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > Al > > > > a1webs.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > > > > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front > > > end... and either > > > > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the > database > > > cluster. > > > > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering > CF > > > with Alteons > > > > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and > > > make sure the > > > > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
Well maybe if they have 2 hosts that they can use, and have only one be live and the other just be sitting there getting updates to transactions that are processed. Then when (A) went down (B) could come up. The hosts would most likely need to be several hunred miles away from eachother though. Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Matt Liotta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:40 AM Subject: RE: Geographical redundancy? > Sure they can. It is hard and expensive, but yes, they can. > > -Matt > > > -Original Message- > > From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:38 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? > > > > I would not get into something like that with a client. If you do, > > you are putting your head on the chopping block due to the fact > > that not all disasters or outages can be avoided. Like the poster > > before said, you need something like disaster clause > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Brown > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - Original Message - > > From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:04 AM > > Subject: Geographical redundancy? > > > > > > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office > > management > > > application which will be used in an ASP (application service > > provider - > > > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that > > the > > > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster > > (natural > > > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, > > and only a > > > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > > > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity > > problems on > > > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a > > hurricane > > > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years > > ago. > > > For this application, that wouldn't have been > > acceptable. > > > > > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > > > > > > > Al > > > a1webs.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > > > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front > > end... and either > > > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the database > > cluster. > > > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering CF > > with Alteons > > > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and > > make sure the > > > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > > > > > > > > > > __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
> What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? That > seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do consistent > backups > to some remote location on the other side of the world. > You would need to do real time replication or a multi-way commit type setup, so you can have transactional integrity across servers that are regionally separated. -Matt __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
Sure they can. It is hard and expensive, but yes, they can. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Douglas Brown [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:38 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Geographical redundancy? > > I would not get into something like that with a client. If you do, > you are putting your head on the chopping block due to the fact > that not all disasters or outages can be avoided. Like the poster > before said, you need something like disaster clause > > > > > > Douglas Brown > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - Original Message - > From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:04 AM > Subject: Geographical redundancy? > > > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office > management > > application which will be used in an ASP (application service > provider - > > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that > the > > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster > (natural > > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, > and only a > > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity > problems on > > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a > hurricane > > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years > ago. > > For this application, that wouldn't have been > acceptable. > > > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > > > > Al > > a1webs.com > > > > > > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front > end... and either > > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the database > cluster. > > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering CF > with Alteons > > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and > make sure the > > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > > > > > __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
And make sure that your liability insurance is in place too. : ha, ha: At 11:37 AM 5/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: >I would not get into something like that with a client. If you do, >you are putting your head on the chopping block due to the fact >that not all disasters or outages can be avoided. Like the poster >before said, you need something like disaster clause > > > > > >Douglas Brown >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >- Original Message - >From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:04 AM >Subject: Geographical redundancy? > > > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office >management > > application which will be used in an ASP (application service >provider - > > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that >the > > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster >(natural > > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, >and only a > > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity >problems on > > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a >hurricane > > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years >ago. > > For this application, that wouldn't have been >acceptable. > > > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > > > > Al > > a1webs.com > > > > > > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front >end... and either > > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the database >cluster. > > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering CF >with Alteons > > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and >make sure the > > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > > > > > __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
At 02:04 PM 5/11/2002 -0400, you wrote: >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office management >application which will be used in an ASP (application service provider - >not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that the >application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster (natural >or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, and only a >small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. What are you going to do if that next bomb falls on your server? That seems like a pretty hefty requirement. You'd have to do consistent backups to some remote location on the other side of the world. > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity problems on >and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a hurricane >knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years ago. > For this application, that wouldn't have been acceptable. >I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? Are they willing to pay for something like that? It seems like something impossible to guarantee. ( If it comes down to $10 an hour, working at Dunkin Donuts is a lot less stress : ha, ha: ) -- Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Need a Web Developer? Contact me! AIM: Reboog711 | Fax / Phone: 860-223-7946 -- My Books: http://www.instantcoldfusion.com My Band: http://www.farcryfly.com __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Geographical redundancy?
I would not get into something like that with a client. If you do, you are putting your head on the chopping block due to the fact that not all disasters or outages can be avoided. Like the poster before said, you need something like disaster clause Douglas Brown Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "Al Musella, DPM" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:04 AM Subject: Geographical redundancy? >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office management > application which will be used in an ASP (application service provider - > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that the > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster (natural > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, and only a > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity problems on > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a hurricane > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years ago. > For this application, that wouldn't have been acceptable. > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > Al > a1webs.com > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front end... and either > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the database cluster. > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering CF with Alteons > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and make sure the > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
This is a well understood problem for many of the major web sites on the net. There are many ways to attack this problem, but you are really better hiring someone with experience than trying to figure it out on your own. I can point you to companies that offer products and services to help you do this or if you'd like my consulting help; that is available too. -Matt > -Original Message- > From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:05 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Geographical redundancy? > >I have to put together a proposal for a medical office management > application which will be used in an ASP (application service provider - > not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that the > application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster (natural > or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, and only a > small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. > After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity problems on > and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a hurricane > knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years ago. > For this application, that wouldn't have been acceptable. > > I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? > > > Al > a1webs.com > > > > > At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: > >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front end... and > either > >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the database cluster. > >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering CF with > Alteons > >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and make sure the > >web boxes keep the file systems synched. > > __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Geographical redundancy?
"Act of God or War" clause. Tony Gruen -Original Message- From: Al Musella, DPM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 11:05 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Geographical redundancy? I have to put together a proposal for a medical office management application which will be used in an ASP (application service provider - not the MS language:) model.. one of the requirements is that the application has to be hosted in such a way that a major disaster (natural or otherwise) in 1 location can't cause the loss of any data, and only a small (maybe an hour) downtime for the application. After the Sept. 11 tragedy, my websites had connectivity problems on and off for a few days. We also had 24 hours of downtime when a hurricane knocked down a bunch of telephone poles near my ISP a few years ago. For this application, that wouldn't have been acceptable. I have no idea how to approach it. Any ideas? Al a1webs.com At 06:08 PM 5/10/2002 -0400, Justin Greene wrote: >I Have to agree. Hardware based clustering for the front end... and either >SQL Enterprise or Veritas on the backend to handle the database cluster. >Very solid configuration. We have been hardware clustering CF with Alteons >for over 3 years. Just need to keep sessions in the DB and make sure the >web boxes keep the file systems synched. __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
