Re: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
On Thursday, Aug 14, 2003, at 06:00 US/Pacific, Candace Cottrell wrote: > If I have never used Fusebox, is Mach II going to take a while to > implement? Fusebox and Mach II aren't closely related so I don't think knowing (or not knowing) Fusebox will have much impact on what it takes to learn Mach II. > I want to implement a framework/methodology to my new apps, but I am on > such a tight schedule, I'm a little scared to jump in. If you're on a tight schedule, you're probably best sticking with what you know. Implementing any new framework or methodology introduces a learning curve that may well impact your schedule. Typically, the first project you do with a new framework will take longer - since you're learning the framework as you go - but then subsequent projects are increasingly faster and faster. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
On Wednesday, Aug 13, 2003, at 22:35 US/Pacific, Mike Kear wrote: > Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night Yup, 1.0.1, fixes the non-US date format issue. > Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. Keep watching http://www.mach-ii.com/ and (shameless plug): http://www.corfield.org/machii/ (I created a shortcut URL!) > I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going > to > require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I > don't > have. Is that right? Understanding basic OO will help. Understanding MVC will also help. Does this page help at all: http://www.corfield.org/machii/concepts/ (another shortcut URL!) > If I want to become adept at using > Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? Yes, but you can start gently. If you're writing CFCs, you're halfway there. Mach II expects the bulk of the logic in your application to be in CFCs but the display part is still just .cfm pages (much like Fusebox's display fuses). > I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well > are > XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Well, there's a minimal amount of XML you'll need in order to understand the Mach II configuration file but it's pretty straightforward (especially now Hal and Ben have provided a PDF "configuration guide"!). Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
Re: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Try this for starters: Dicovering CFCs by Helms, Edwards - Calvin - Original Message - From: "Murat Demirci" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:57 AM Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > Who is the audience? > > You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. > > OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source > for OO programming in CF? > > -Original Message- > From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to > know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. > > Hal Helms > "Java for CF Programmers" class > in Las Vegas, August 18-22 > www.halhelms.com > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and > bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he > corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. > > Like lightning it goes! > > It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the > box. No muss, no fuss. > > Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. > > I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to > require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't > have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that > expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've > done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at > using > Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? > > I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are > XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? > > Cheers, > Michael Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > AFP Webworks. > > > > > > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
At 08:01 AM 8/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and >CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to >CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great >number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one >reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO >now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those >things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal, Could you recommend some links and/or books for us OO newbs? --Scott ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
candace I woudnt work on porting over your entire thing at once. I would break apart logical parts of it, make them cfc's and go slow :) tony weeg uncertified advanced cold fusion developer tony at navtrak dot net www.navtrak.net office 410.548.2337 fax 410.860.2337 -Original Message- From: Candace Cottrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:00 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) If I have never used Fusebox, is Mach II going to take a while to implement? Say for instance I am starting from scratch with an app. I have a bit of OO knowledge, but not like a Java or C++ programmer would have. (I own the Discovering CFCs book). I want to implement a framework/methodology to my new apps, but I am on such a tight schedule, I'm a little scared to jump in. Candace K. Cottrell, Web Developer The Children's Medical Center One Children's Plaza Dayton, OH 45404 937-641-4293 http://www.childrensdayton.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/14/2003 8:01:52 AM >>> As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
One of my favorite books for OO newbies is "Object Technology: A Manager's Guide" which, despite the inclusion of a bad word in the title, is awfully good. The book, by David Taylor, is short and very clearly written. An amazingly good book, brand new, is "Head First Java" published by O'Reilly. Think "picture book for Java". While it's Java specific, it's very approachable without dumbing down Java and OO. Pretty much anything written by Meilir Page-Jones is wonderful. Meilir is both brilliant and very funny. Here are some good links on basic OO stuff: http://auc.uow.edu.au/conf/conf01/downloads/Wkshop_Framework_for_OO.pdf http://www.breakoutimage.dk/pdf/Technical%20Paper%207.pdf http://gdb.weizmann.ac.il/gdb/objectModel.html#intro Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Scott Weikert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 12:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) At 08:01 AM 8/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: >As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and >CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific >to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great >number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one >reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning >OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of >those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may >suggest. Hal, Could you recommend some links and/or books for us OO newbs? --Scott ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Hal; I just thought I would chime in and say that Discovering CFCs is really a great book, packed with information, and reading it cleared up a lot of my OO questions. It is at the top of my list when it comes to recommended reading. Another book I am really impressed with is 'Object Oriented Programming with Actionscript' by Branden Hall and Samuel Wan. Despite the title, the book is about a software design priniciples, not Flash, and it is written for the developer looking to learn OO. Mr. Hall and Mr. Wan focus on objects and design patterns in a way that really makes things concrete. It would help if you are able to do the Flash exercises, but there is a lot of value in just reading the authors thoughts (also, Actionscript is very much related to javascript - the enterprising developer would just port the code to practice the principles). The book I am pouring over right now is The Unified Modelling Language User Guide, by Grady Booch, James Rumbaugh, and Ivar Jacobson, and it is surprisingly accessible reading. M -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 8:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
"Mach-II Best Practices" section on mach-ii.com could be great! Fortunately I know some OO in a technical manner :) With Mach-II, it will be a horse for me. Thanks again! -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 3:02 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
I would second that book. Clint - Original Message - From: "Calvin Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 7:36 AM Subject: Re: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > Try this for starters: > Dicovering CFCs by Helms, Edwards > > - Calvin > > - Original Message - > From: "Murat Demirci" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:57 AM > Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > > Who is the audience? > > > > You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. > > > > OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source > > for OO programming in CF? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > > > > You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need > to > > know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. > > > > Hal Helms > > "Java for CF Programmers" class > > in Las Vegas, August 18-22 > > www.halhelms.com > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > > > > Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and > > bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he > > corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it > goes. > > > > Like lightning it goes! > > > > It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the > > box. No muss, no fuss. > > > > Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. > > > > I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to > > require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I > don't > > have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that > > expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've > > done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at > > using > > Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? > > > > I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are > > XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? > > > > Cheers, > > Michael Kear > > Windsor, NSW, Australia > > AFP Webworks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Another good book (and one of the few that I've actually read cover-to-cover) is "Beginning Java Objects" by WROX. The book is nicely split into three parts all discussion a single sample application (so your mind doesn't need to assimilate new concepts AND new example frameworks every few pages). The first explains pretty much all of the concepts of OO programming with VERY little Java (in other words it's completely applicable to just about any OO interest). The second part covers the design and architecture aspects of OO using UML - again very little Java here, but a lot of good information on how to think in OO and get that information documented. Finally the last part actually covers how you'd build the application itself using Java. This can be skipped if you have no interest in Java at all, but I found it useful. Damn good book. Jim > -Original Message- > From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 8:02 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and > CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to > CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great > number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one > reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO > now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those > things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. > > Hal Helms > "Java for CF Programmers" class > in Las Vegas, August 18-22 > www.halhelms.com > > -Original Message- > From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:58 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > Who is the audience? > > You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. > > OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no > source for OO programming in CF? > > -Original Message----- > From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need > to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. > > Hal Helms > "Java for CF Programmers" class > in Las Vegas, August 18-22 > www.halhelms.com > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) > > > Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and > bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he > corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it > goes. > > Like lightning it goes! > > It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of > the box. No muss, no fuss. > > Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. > > I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to > require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I > don't > have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that > expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people > who've > done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at > using > Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? > > I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well > are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? > > Cheers, > Michael Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > AFP Webworks. > > > > > > > > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Understanding Fusebox isn't really necessary at all. As Sean pointed out, there's not much "Fuseboxy" stuff going on in Mach-II. You will need a good understanding of CFCs and at least some understanding of OO. I tend towards caution, so I'd prefer not to adopt anything new on something where timeframe is critical. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Candace Cottrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 9:00 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) If I have never used Fusebox, is Mach II going to take a while to implement? Say for instance I am starting from scratch with an app. I have a bit of OO knowledge, but not like a Java or C++ programmer would have. (I own the Discovering CFCs book). I want to implement a framework/methodology to my new apps, but I am on such a tight schedule, I'm a little scared to jump in. Candace K. Cottrell, Web Developer The Children's Medical Center One Children's Plaza Dayton, OH 45404 937-641-4293 http://www.childrensdayton.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/14/2003 8:01:52 AM >>> As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Hal was answering a question I asked about what to focus my learning attention on. There are a great many things in this world I know too little about, and like most people in our industry, I spend a significant amount of my time learning stuff. There is always more stuff to learn than I have time to study. Therefore I wanted to get an idea of what was more pressing to learn about if I wanted to become adept at using Mach-ii. Hal's answer kind of told me I'd get more value out of learning about OOP than from knowing a lot about XML. That's not to say that knowing about all those things is a waste of time, because it's always better to know more than to know less. It's just that if I have limited time and resources, I have to work on the most important things first. But I'm sure you can get by without knowing anything about OOP, just as CF programmers have since CF1.0. It's only for Mach-ii it becomes more important to know about it. Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 14 August 2003 8:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
congrats mike :) !!! tony weeg uncertified advanced cold fusion developer tony at navtrak dot net www.navtrak.net office 410.548.2337 fax 410.860.2337 -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
If I have never used Fusebox, is Mach II going to take a while to implement? Say for instance I am starting from scratch with an app. I have a bit of OO knowledge, but not like a Java or C++ programmer would have. (I own the Discovering CFCs book). I want to implement a framework/methodology to my new apps, but I am on such a tight schedule, I'm a little scared to jump in. Candace K. Cottrell, Web Developer The Children's Medical Center One Children's Plaza Dayton, OH 45404 937-641-4293 http://www.childrensdayton.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8/14/2003 8:01:52 AM >>> As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 6:58 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
I read Hal's book. Perfect intro to the topic - I highly recommend it. Straight to the point. Although I must be honest, I did not find the exercise book very useful. (available for additional cost) Stace -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 8:02 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) As far as books go, Discovering CFCs gives a basic intro on OOAD and CFCs. I teach classes in OOAD with CFCs. But while those are specific to CFCs, there's a great deal of info on OO on the web and in a great number of books. It can be confusing assimilating it all, which is one reason I so strongly encourage CFers to begin the process of learning OO now rather than wait until a need is apparent. OO is not one of those things you pick up in 24 hours, no matter what some books may suggest. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com AVIS IMPORTANT: --- Les informations contenues dans le present document et ses pieces jointes sont strictement confidentielles et reservees a l'usage de la (des) personne(s) a qui il est adresse. Si vous n'etes pas le destinataire, soyez avise que toute divulgation, distribution, copie, ou autre utilisation de ces informations est strictement prohibee. Si vous avez recu ce document par erreur, veuillez s'il vous plait communiquer immediatement avec l'expediteur et detruire ce document sans en faire de copie sous quelque forme. WARNING: --- The information contained in this document and attachments is confidential and intended only for the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any other use of the information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this document by mistake, please notify the sender immediately and destroy this document and attachments without making any copy of any kind. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
>> -Original Message- >> From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 4:58 AM >> To: CF-Talk >> Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) >> But I'm sure you can get by without knowing anything about OOP, just as CF >> programmers have since CF1.0. It's only for Mach-ii it becomes more >> important to know about it. I probably wouldn't say it's *only* for Mach-ii that OO becomes 'important' to us CF folk. I've been doing CF since 1.5, and all of my 'legacy'/procedural CF code will certainly run in MX...but won't take advantage of the new functionality in MX (ie cfc's, which are a huge step themselves toward making CF OO rather than procedural). So I would suggest that whether or not you use Mach-ii, just being on MX gives you ample reason to start delving into OO. That's the boat I'm in at the moment. Reading Hal's 'Discovering CFCs' at the moment. Only just started...so all I understand at the moment is that a cat is a class...and also a subclass of the mammal class...and inherits properties from the mammal class. Oh yeah...and cats secretly compose Haikus :) charlie -Original Message----- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 14 August 2003 8:58 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -----Original Message----- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 )
Murat, There are plenty of resources covering OOP which are language agnostic and indeed OOAD is of course language neutral. I believe that's what Hal was referring to and even if he wasn't it's still a valid. I'm pretty sure there have been recommendations for OO books/resources on this list in the past. There are even a couple of titles which in fact do cover OOP with CF and I have no doubt that in the near future there will be a proliferation of these titles/resources specific to CF. André -Original Message- From: Murat Demirci [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 14 August 2003 11:58 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Who is the audience? You say we, CFMX developers, need to learn OO. OK. I want to learn it to create powerful apps but how? There is no source for OO programming in CF? -Original Message- From: Hal Helms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 11:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) You won't really need to know much about XML, Michael, but you will need to know OO to do a lot with Mach-II. Hal Helms "Java for CF Programmers" class in Las Vegas, August 18-22 www.halhelms.com -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 1:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Good News: (was RE: Mach II 1.0 ) Hal put a new version of Mach-II on the site Mach-II.com last night, and bingo! The problem was I wasn't using US date format. In a jiffy, he corrected the bug so it accepted international date formats and now it goes. Like lightning it goes! It installed and the sample apps worked just like that - right out of the box. No muss, no fuss. Now I want to know more about how this whole thing works. I get the impression that working in the Mach-II environment is going to require a knowledge of object-oriented programming terminology that I don't have. Is that right? For example I rather get the impression that expressions like MVC - Model View Conroller are familiar to people who've done other programming. Is this so? If I want to become adept at using Mach-ii am I going to have to learn about OO Programming? I can see that amongst the disciplines I'm going to have to know well are XML, but I need to learn more about that anyway. Anything else? Cheers, Michael Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=t:4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm?link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
