Re: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox)
On Friday, Jul 18, 2003, at 10:49 US/Pacific, Barney Boisvert wrote: > Is www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion hard to remember? No, but it > might change to www.macromedia.com/software/servers/coldfusion next > week. A better example is probably: http://www.macromedia.com/exchange/coldfusion/ That's a "public API" URL. We effectively promise not to change it. At one time, it redirected to http://devex.macromedia.com/developer/gallery/ (I think) which in turn invoked a CF page. Now it redirects to http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/exchange/index.cfm?view=sn110 (I think it's sn110 - I'm doing this from memory). We have a whole set of high-level, memorable URLs that will never change. In fact, we've supported some "API" URLs for many years that have *never* been real filesystem URLs. They're a convenience for users. URL abstractions can be a really good thing. Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox)
Oh, it's definitely an administrative hassle, but that's the job of the developer, make things easier on what are invariably idiot users. ;) Most of my apps are also very constrained on their flow, but I've written a couple where this kind of abstraction was essential. One of them, in particular greatly benefited from it. Subdomains (usually a better choise in my opinion) were out for some reason, so we had to do directory paths. Did a complete fuseboxing of the app without much in the way of visible changes (as a precursor to a substantial refactoring) and it was installed and running for a week before anyone noticed that the URLs were all different. Once it was fuseboxed, we were able to move stuff all around without changing many of the URLs from the initial fuseboxing, which was very nice. Those that did change were again protected by the extra URL abstraction for another URL-indifferent upgrade. There were major interface changes, but the access points were still the same from the user perspective. barneyb --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com > -Original Message- > From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 4:14 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox) > > > > One is for administration and maintenance, and one is for > > usabilty. > > > > Is www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion hard to remember? > > No, but it might change to > > www.macromedia.com/software/servers/coldfusion next week. > > www.macromedia.com/go/coldfusion, on the other hand, will > > NEVER change, and gives MM the ability to muck with their > > URLs as they need to. > > That level of abstraction should be used for all application > > that intend for people to jump into the middle, regardless > > of what their URLs actually look like. If you have controlled > > access (a login form) then it's probably irrelevant, since > > people will have to start at the homepage, but for anything > > else, it's a really good idea, especially content-heavy sites. > > That's a good argument, I suppose. I don't run into this very often; most > everything I get to work on is more of an application with a highly > structured path, or if it's a content-heavy site, it's using a CMS anyway. > Also, two levels of abstraction in this case require additional > setup/migration steps, so that if an application is put in a new > environment, someone has to remember to create the redirects, > unless they're > done in CF rather than in the web server configuration. > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > http://www.figleaf.com/ > voice: (202) 797-5496 > fax: (202) 797-5444 > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox)
> One is for administration and maintenance, and one is for > usabilty. > > Is www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion hard to remember? > No, but it might change to > www.macromedia.com/software/servers/coldfusion next week. > www.macromedia.com/go/coldfusion, on the other hand, will > NEVER change, and gives MM the ability to muck with their > URLs as they need to. > That level of abstraction should be used for all application > that intend for people to jump into the middle, regardless > of what their URLs actually look like. If you have controlled > access (a login form) then it's probably irrelevant, since > people will have to start at the homepage, but for anything > else, it's a really good idea, especially content-heavy sites. That's a good argument, I suppose. I don't run into this very often; most everything I get to work on is more of an application with a highly structured path, or if it's a content-heavy site, it's using a CMS anyway. Also, two levels of abstraction in this case require additional setup/migration steps, so that if an application is put in a new environment, someone has to remember to create the redirects, unless they're done in CF rather than in the web server configuration. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox)
One is for administration and maintenance, and one is for usabilty. Is www.macromedia.com/software/coldfusion hard to remember? No, but it might change to www.macromedia.com/software/servers/coldfusion next week. www.macromedia.com/go/coldfusion, on the other hand, will NEVER change, and gives MM the ability to muck with their URLs as they need to. That level of abstraction should be used for all application that intend for people to jump into the middle, regardless of what their URLs actually look like. If you have controlled access (a login form) then it's probably irrelevant, since people will have to start at the homepage, but for anything else, it's a really good idea, especially content-heavy sites. barneyb --- Barney Boisvert, Senior Development Engineer AudienceCentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice : 360.756.8080 x12 fax : 360.647.5351 www.audiencecentral.com > -Original Message- > From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 7:23 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox) > > > > > 2) Static "sounding" URLs are easier to remember. They > > > shouldn't be, but they are. Most likely, this is because > > > people are used to seeing a URL like "/Products/SuperApp.cfm" > > > instead of "index.cfm?go=Products.SuperApp". > > > > OK, I'll buy that. But that's why Macromedia (for example) has > > "go" URLs and some server-side redirects for 'obvious' URLs. > > It's also why, for example, my site has these URLs: > > > > http://www.corfield.org/coldfusion/ > > http://www.corfield.org/cplusplus/ > > http://www.corfield.org/weddings/ > > http://www.corfield.org/sean/ > > http://www.corfield.org/java/ > > etc > > > > Adding shortcut URLs is perfectly reasonable. > > So, you're fixing the problem caused by one layer of abstraction > by applying > another? It seems easier to forego the abstraction entirely. > > Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software > http://www.figleaf.com/ > voice: (202) 797-5496 > fax: (202) 797-5444 > > ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: URLs and abstraction (was: RE: Cons to Fusebox)
> > 2) Static "sounding" URLs are easier to remember. They > > shouldn't be, but they are. Most likely, this is because > > people are used to seeing a URL like "/Products/SuperApp.cfm" > > instead of "index.cfm?go=Products.SuperApp". > > OK, I'll buy that. But that's why Macromedia (for example) has > "go" URLs and some server-side redirects for 'obvious' URLs. > It's also why, for example, my site has these URLs: > > http://www.corfield.org/coldfusion/ > http://www.corfield.org/cplusplus/ > http://www.corfield.org/weddings/ > http://www.corfield.org/sean/ > http://www.corfield.org/java/ > etc > > Adding shortcut URLs is perfectly reasonable. So, you're fixing the problem caused by one layer of abstraction by applying another? It seems easier to forego the abstraction entirely. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=4 FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
