Re: Section 508 Compliance
Adrocknaphobia wrote: Jochem: I think the website is to blame for both parts. All sites should be cross-browser compliant. What is your definition of 'cross-browser compliant'? All I was saying is from a 508 standpoint it is a poor example, the fundamental objective of 508 is to provide the same access to information, regardless of disability... and regardless of thier browser choice. And that is exactly what that website is doing. Everybody gets the same access regardless of their browser choice: there is no browser sniffing and sending broken, incomplete or less functional pages to some browsers. I know you don't want to hear it, but the vast majority of users use IE, so common sense says code to IE first, whether its standard compliant or not, then worry about the other 5%. Common sense is to code for your requirements. And with any website that needs to comply with section 508 or 2000/78/EC that includes standard compliance. We wouldn't want to break the law, would we? Jochem ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210072 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Section 508 Compliance
Just an FYI, Section 508 is the government's requirements for the departments of the executive branch and those receiving grant monies (or other monies) from the executive branch and using that money to put something up on the web. Current cases in the courts (including the agreement between both Ramada.com and priceline.com with the New York Attorney General's office (under the ADA) always are referencing the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG 1.0) put out by the W3C. http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ AA (Priority 1 and 2) items make for a very good accessible site. Paragraphs a-k of Section 508 Paragraph 1194.22 directly maps itself to many Priority 1 items. If you add in paragraphs l-o of Section 508 you are good to go. Sandy Clark -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:38 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla is lacking in other areas for 508 that I've tested. Like the inability to enlarge radio buttons and checkboxes. It will enlarge the text on a form, but leave checkboxes and radio buttons tiny, only enlarging the box around them. -Adam On 6/20/05, Dave Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ctrl-mousewheel works in FF :P -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text size. If someone has poor vision, they aren't going to try and located the mechanism on the page to enlarge the text. (If they can even find it) -Adam On 6/20/05, Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.section508.gov/ On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Russ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210075 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Yes Section 508 is accessibility in the USin Canada it's a different set of rules that cover a lot of the same or similar issues Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.comcfm/54 ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210090 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
http://www.section508.gov/ On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Russ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:20 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
http://www.section508.gov/ On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, since the Bobby compliance checker is no longer free, take a look at the CSE HTML Validator (http://www.htmlvalidator.com). It does a nice job of checking your generated HTML for 508 compliance. -- Michael Wolfe ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210002 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text size. If someone has poor vision, they aren't going to try and located the mechanism on the page to enlarge the text. (If they can even find it) -Adam On 6/20/05, Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.section508.gov/ On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Russ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210006 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Russ wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? and for information on using Macromedia tools to better support those regulations, as well as links to varied resources, try: http://www.macromedia.com/resources/accessibility/ jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210007 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
The 508 check within Dreamweaver is quite good, and will cover most corporate needs. -Adam On 6/20/05, John Dowdell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russ wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? and for information on using Macromedia tools to better support those regulations, as well as links to varied resources, try: http://www.macromedia.com/resources/accessibility/ jd -- John Dowdell . Macromedia Developer Support . San Francisco CA USA Weblog: http://www.macromedia.com/go/blog_jd Aggregator: http://www.macromedia.com/go/weblogs Technotes: http://www.macromedia.com/support/ Spam killed my private email -- public record is best, thanks. ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210008 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Section 508 Compliance
Ctrl-mousewheel works in FF :P -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text size. If someone has poor vision, they aren't going to try and located the mechanism on the page to enlarge the text. (If they can even find it) -Adam On 6/20/05, Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.section508.gov/ On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Russ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210009 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla is lacking in other areas for 508 that I've tested. Like the inability to enlarge radio buttons and checkboxes. It will enlarge the text on a form, but leave checkboxes and radio buttons tiny, only enlarging the box around them. -Adam On 6/20/05, Dave Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ctrl-mousewheel works in FF :P -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Section 508 Compliance Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text size. If someone has poor vision, they aren't going to try and located the mechanism on the page to enlarge the text. (If they can even find it) -Adam On 6/20/05, Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.section508.gov/ On 6/20/05, Russ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A client is asking us about having their website coded for the disabled. I'm assuming he's talking about Section 508 compliance. Can anyone point me in the right direction for this? Russ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210012 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Adrocknaphobia wrote: From: Adrocknaphobia Kinda ironic, but it should be noted that section508.gov isn't a very good example of 508 compliancy itself. The biggest glaring mistake is using an external mechanism outside the browser to adjust the text size. Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla is lacking in other areas for 508 that I've tested. So when Mozilla can't resize a tiny part of the page, it is lacking, but when IE can't resize anything on the page, the website is to blame? The User Agent Accesibility Guidelines specifically say that a user agent should give final control over the rendering (including font size) to the user. So when we have section508.gov, Mozilla and IE, which one has the big glaring mistake? Jochem ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210015 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla is lacking in other areas for 508 that I've tested. Like the inability to enlarge radio buttons and checkboxes. It will enlarge the text on a form, but leave checkboxes and radio buttons tiny, only enlarging the box around them. Afaik MSIE doesn't change the size of checkboxes and radio buttons either... input type=checkbox style=width: 1500; / ... the checkbox will be wider than your browser, but the graphical portion of it will still be 15 px wide. I expect most browsers behave similarly, although I haven't tested that specifically. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210016 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Jochem: I think the website is to blame for both parts. All sites should be cross-browser compliant. All I was saying is from a 508 standpoint it is a poor example, the fundamental objective of 508 is to provide the same access to information, regardless of disability... and regardless of thier browser choice. I know you don't want to hear it, but the vast majority of users use IE, so common sense says code to IE first, whether its standard compliant or not, then worry about the other 5%. Isaac. width: 1500 is a fixed size. trying using ems and changing the text size in the browser. Rachel (my css purist fiance) gave me a lecture on it, growing a checkbox to the entire size of the browser. The same code in mozilla just enlarged the box model around the checkbox but the checkbox remained small. -Adam On 6/20/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interesting. Unfortunately Mozilla is lacking in other areas for 508 that I've tested. Like the inability to enlarge radio buttons and checkboxes. It will enlarge the text on a form, but leave checkboxes and radio buttons tiny, only enlarging the box around them. Afaik MSIE doesn't change the size of checkboxes and radio buttons either... input type=checkbox style=width: 1500; / ... the checkbox will be wider than your browser, but the graphical portion of it will still be 15 px wide. I expect most browsers behave similarly, although I haven't tested that specifically. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210018 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Isaac. width: 1500 is a fixed size. trying using ems and changing the text size in the browser. Rachel (my css purist fiance) gave me a lecture on it, growing a checkbox to the entire size of the browser. The same code in mozilla just enlarged the box model around the checkbox but the checkbox remained small. Yeah, using em is on the long list of things I've not gotten around to. :P s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210033 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
The Web Developer Toolbar in FF has a vaalidate 508 tool on it, not sure how accurate it is, but it comes up with some sensible suggestions. On 6/21/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Isaac. width: 1500 is a fixed size. trying using ems and changing the text size in the browser. Rachel (my css purist fiance) gave me a lecture on it, growing a checkbox to the entire size of the browser. The same code in mozilla just enlarged the box model around the checkbox but the checkbox remained small. Yeah, using em is on the long list of things I've not gotten around to. :P s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210041 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
The Web Developer Toolbar in FF has a vaalidate 508 tool on it, not sure how accurate it is, but it comes up with some sensible suggestions. Yes, that's the CynthiaSays Tool, similar to the old Bobby validator. If you don't use FF and the WD toolbar (why not?!) it can be found directly at: http://www.contentquality.com/ Bobby was replaced with WebXACT which has a real comprehensive set of tests too. http://webxact.watchfire.com/submit.aspx?scanurl=http://www.cfwebstore.com Mary Jo Sminkey http://www.cfwebstore.com CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210049 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Section 508 Compliance
Bobby was replaced with WebXACT which has a real comprehensive set of tests too. Oops, sorry about that, actual URL for WebXACT is: http://webxact.watchfire.com Mary Jo Sminkey http://www.cfwebstore.com CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:210051 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
