Re: [cfaussie] Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Sean Corfield]

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:10 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> I am running windows servers and based on the calculator at
> http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/calc5.html is will cost between
> $450 and $500 per month per instance to host, plus an extra $50ish for
> data.

Could you provide a bit more detail on how you arrived at those numbers?

I suspect you're assuming a much larger instance than you really need.

The real key with EC2 is figuring out a minimal baseline to deal with
your "quiet time" and then scaling up when you need it. The "cloud"
isn't a great replacement for your data center unless your traffic is
low by default - where you don't need your full data center - but has
spikes which are as high or higher than your data center capability.

Where I work, our traffic is seasonal: substantially higher in winter
than summer. That means we could scale cloud hosting to our summer
traffic and add capability in the winter. We could probably save a
boatload of money.

Also, if you're comparing managed services to cloud services, the
cloud will look attractive - but if you're comparing bare bones VPS or
dedicated servers that you fully manage yourself, the cloud will look
expensive.

Over the last four years, I've run production infrastructure in a
combination of cloud, data center, and local servers. Every situation
is different but you need to weigh up all the costs (and benefits).
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Paul Kukiel]

No Issue its just different.  Ie you can just install SQL server, put data
in the database, shut down the instance fire it back up again the next day
and expect the data to be there.

At rackspace it does work like this however.

Paul.


On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Mark Mandel  wrote:

> Well, you can use RDS or Oracle offerings.
>
> But if you have an EBS based AMI, what is the issue there? It's persistent
> between restarts in my experience (I tend to only host websites on them, not
> DBs)
>
> I rebooted our stage server yesterday, and it came back just fine with
> everything on it.
>
> So? Colour me confused?
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Paul Kukiel  wrote:
>
>> Sure but its not just simply setup and your database is persistent you
>> need to offload to EBS at intervals or snap shot the instance.  Where as
>> rackspace is more like a typical VPS/colo machine just in an
>> elastic environment.
>>
>> I'm just saying this is something to consider when making the move
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Mark Mandel wrote:
>>
>>> Amazon doesn't lose your data on restart if you use EBS...
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Paul Kukiel  wrote:
>>>
 Steve Take a look at Rackspace cloud options.  I've been looking at them
 and chatting with Phil and they are also really good value for money and
 they don't loose your data like Amazon do upon restart.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> E: mark.man...@gmail.com
>>> T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
>>> W: www.compoundtheory.com
>>>
>>> cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex - Nov 17, 18 - Melbourne Australia
>>> http://www.cfobjective.com.au
>>>
>>> 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast
>>> http://www.2ddu.com/
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Kukiel
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Mark Mandel]

Well, you can use RDS or Oracle offerings.

But if you have an EBS based AMI, what is the issue there? It's persistent
between restarts in my experience (I tend to only host websites on them, not
DBs)

I rebooted our stage server yesterday, and it came back just fine with
everything on it.

So? Colour me confused?

Mark

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Paul Kukiel  wrote:

> Sure but its not just simply setup and your database is persistent you need
> to offload to EBS at intervals or snap shot the instance.  Where as
> rackspace is more like a typical VPS/colo machine just in an
> elastic environment.
>
> I'm just saying this is something to consider when making the move
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Mark Mandel  wrote:
>
>> Amazon doesn't lose your data on restart if you use EBS...
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Paul Kukiel  wrote:
>>
>>> Steve Take a look at Rackspace cloud options.  I've been looking at them
>>> and chatting with Phil and they are also really good value for money and
>>> they don't loose your data like Amazon do upon restart.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> E: mark.man...@gmail.com
>> T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
>> W: www.compoundtheory.com
>>
>> cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex - Nov 17, 18 - Melbourne Australia
>> http://www.cfobjective.com.au
>>
>> 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast
>> http://www.2ddu.com/
>>
>>  --
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Mark Mandel]

Yeah, to replace an entire hosting setup, it may not be cost effective. But
for specific applications, it can make a lot of sense when you look at the
wider functionality available.

If you are looking at massive dips and spikes in traffic - you can't go past
being about to expand and collapse in the cloud (Elastic Load Balancer).
If you are going to do massive asynchronous batch processing of data off and
on - spot instances make a lot of sense here.
You need a CDN - cloudfront makes a lot of sense, building your own would
suck
Massive MySQL replication - RDS can make a lot of sense (although their
performance on mySQL isn't crash hot in my experience).
If you want to split up your application into lots of micro boxes that each
have their own tasks - SQS and Micro Instances, are awesome. (Trickier to do
this on traditional architectures).

The list goes on.

It's pretty neat set of tools, but if you were to look at it as a straight
'I have a server here, vs I have a server somewhere in the sky', it
doesn't necessarily match up.

Mark

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:28 PM, Josh Wines  wrote:

> **
> Don't forget to also look into Amazon's 'Reserved Instance' pricing as that
> is a much more cost effective solution when running instances, especially
> 24/7.
>
>
> On 09/08/2011 04:21 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
> Steve, I have to agree with where you are coming from. When you compare
> physical to virtual, it does seem very expensive to run.
>
>  But I also understand the benefits that Virtual gives you as well, and I
> am with you in that I am not sure that for small and I refer to you as small
> in the space of it all, could justify the cost of Cloud Computing.
>
>
>  --
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Steve Onnis wrote:
>
>> Yes paying by the hour is great but when you are using them as
>> production instances which need to be up 24/7 then the paying by the
>> hour doesn't really come into it.
>>
>>   --
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Paul Kukiel]

Sure but its not just simply setup and your database is persistent you need
to offload to EBS at intervals or snap shot the instance.  Where as
rackspace is more like a typical VPS/colo machine just in an
elastic environment.

I'm just saying this is something to consider when making the move

Paul

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Mark Mandel  wrote:

> Amazon doesn't lose your data on restart if you use EBS...
>
> Mark
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Paul Kukiel  wrote:
>
>> Steve Take a look at Rackspace cloud options.  I've been looking at them
>> and chatting with Phil and they are also really good value for money and
>> they don't loose your data like Amazon do upon restart.
>
>
>
>
> --
> E: mark.man...@gmail.com
> T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
> W: www.compoundtheory.com
>
> cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex - Nov 17, 18 - Melbourne Australia
> http://www.cfobjective.com.au
>
> 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast
> http://www.2ddu.com/
>
>  --
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Josh Wines]

Don't forget to also look into Amazon's 'Reserved Instance' pricing as 
that is a much more cost effective solution when running instances, 
especially 24/7.


On 09/08/2011 04:21 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
Steve, I have to agree with where you are coming from. When you 
compare physical to virtual, it does seem very expensive to run.


But I also understand the benefits that Virtual gives you as well, and 
I am with you in that I am not sure that for small and I refer to you 
as small in the space of it all, could justify the cost of Cloud 
Computing.



--
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au /
Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543



On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Steve Onnis > wrote:


Yes paying by the hour is great but when you are using them as
production instances which need to be up 24/7 then the paying by the
hour doesn't really come into it.

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Andrew Scott]

Steve, I have to agree with where you are coming from. When you compare
physical to virtual, it does seem very expensive to run.

But I also understand the benefits that Virtual gives you as well, and I am
with you in that I am not sure that for small and I refer to you as small in
the space of it all, could justify the cost of Cloud Computing.


-- 
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543



On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:

> Yes paying by the hour is great but when you are using them as
> production instances which need to be up 24/7 then the paying by the
> hour doesn't really come into it.
>
>

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Mark Mandel]

Amazon doesn't lose your data on restart if you use EBS...

Mark

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Paul Kukiel  wrote:

> Steve Take a look at Rackspace cloud options.  I've been looking at them
> and chatting with Phil and they are also really good value for money and
> they don't loose your data like Amazon do upon restart.




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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Paul Kukiel]

Steve Take a look at Rackspace cloud options.  I've been looking at them and
chatting with Phil and they are also really good value for money and
they don't loose your data like Amazon do upon restart.

http://www.rackspace.com/cloud/

Paul.

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:

> Yes paying by the hour is great but when you are using them as
> production instances which need to be up 24/7 then the paying by the
> hour doesn't really come into it.
>
> On Sep 8, 3:35 pm, Blair McKenzie  wrote:
> > As far as I can tell there are three main advantages of "cloud"
> > infrastructure, and others have already mentioned most of them:
> > 1) you don't have to manage your own hardware
> > 2) pay by the hour - good for development, and ties into #3
> > 3) you can bring up new instances effectively instantly - both adding
> more
> > servers to handle load, and removing unused instances to reduce cost
> >
> > If you don't need for any of those, then you probably shouldn't go with
> EC2.
> >
> > Blair
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Steve Onnis 
> wrote:
> > > my disaster plan is an open ended ticket to mexico! :)  kidding
> >
> > > bi-daily backups etc
> >
> > > The thing is even with all those backup plans it just adds more to the
> > > costs of running in a cloud.
> >
> > > On Sep 8, 12:50 pm, Barry Beattie  wrote:
> > > > Steve:
> >
> > > > what's the Data Center's/your's disaster recovery plan?**
> >
> > > > How critical is it for you to deliver, say, 99.5% (or whatever in
> your
> > > > SLA) uptime to your customers?
> >
> > > > no criticism, not having a go, just curious if these are factors to
> > > > consider (what you've got Vs what EC2 can do for you).
> >
> > > > me: no affil/bias either way.
> >
> > > > B
> >
> > > > ** IIRC, there were a couple of P-o-P's inside the WTC ... until Sept
> > > > 11, that is (it's all about managing risk... and sometimes mitigating
> > > > all the risk just costs too much to be competitive in business)
> >
> > > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Steve Onnis  >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > That's just it though.
> >
> > > > > I own all of my hardware outright, so the only costs at the moment
> for
> > > > > us is the data centre costs which current is a little over 2k a
> month
> > > > > and includes 100 Gb of data. I have full control of security,
> > > > > firewalls, the servers, environments and if needed i can walk up to
> > > > > the server, plug a USB drive in and either do backups or transfer
> > > > > large amounts of data to my servers.  I have a full rack available
> to
> > > > > me and i agree that if i was looking to expand, then the cost of
> > > > > hardware will be more than a new instance in the cloud.
> >
> > > > > Looking at the figures starting out fresh, the TCO is much higher
> with
> > > > > the typical data centre infrastructure on a hardware level and
> > > > > possible hardware maintenance level but the ongoing costs of a
> cloud
> > > > > seems to be just as high or higher than traditional data center
> > > > > services for running systems.
> >
> > > > > Yes cloud scaling is nice but when then ongoing costs of basic
> > > > > infrastructure ends up  being more what would be the compelling
> > > > > argument to move to a cloud?
> >
> > > > > Steve
> >
> > > > > On Sep 8, 11:43 am, Chong  wrote:
> > > > >> I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you
> > > arrive at
> > > > >> 450-500 per instance excluding data?
> >
> > > > >> With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to
> > > estimate
> > > > >> your actual usage till you get on it.
> >
> > > > >> For me the potential lies in
> >
> > > > >>- Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of
> all
> > > the
> > > > >>datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
> > > > >>- scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also
> believe
> > > there is
> > > > >>the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
> > > > >>- Not needing to worry about hardware
> >
> > > > >> So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from
> EC2
> > > is to
> > > > >> architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different
> > > "regions" ,
> > > > >> know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing
> to
> > > worry
> > > > >> about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non
> > > cloud.
> >
> > > > >> Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.
> >
> > > > >> Just my uneducated 2 cents :)
> >
> > > > > --
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[cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Steve Onnis]

Yes paying by the hour is great but when you are using them as
production instances which need to be up 24/7 then the paying by the
hour doesn't really come into it.

On Sep 8, 3:35 pm, Blair McKenzie  wrote:
> As far as I can tell there are three main advantages of "cloud"
> infrastructure, and others have already mentioned most of them:
> 1) you don't have to manage your own hardware
> 2) pay by the hour - good for development, and ties into #3
> 3) you can bring up new instances effectively instantly - both adding more
> servers to handle load, and removing unused instances to reduce cost
>
> If you don't need for any of those, then you probably shouldn't go with EC2.
>
> Blair
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> > my disaster plan is an open ended ticket to mexico! :)  kidding
>
> > bi-daily backups etc
>
> > The thing is even with all those backup plans it just adds more to the
> > costs of running in a cloud.
>
> > On Sep 8, 12:50 pm, Barry Beattie  wrote:
> > > Steve:
>
> > > what's the Data Center's/your's disaster recovery plan?**
>
> > > How critical is it for you to deliver, say, 99.5% (or whatever in your
> > > SLA) uptime to your customers?
>
> > > no criticism, not having a go, just curious if these are factors to
> > > consider (what you've got Vs what EC2 can do for you).
>
> > > me: no affil/bias either way.
>
> > > B
>
> > > ** IIRC, there were a couple of P-o-P's inside the WTC ... until Sept
> > > 11, that is (it's all about managing risk... and sometimes mitigating
> > > all the risk just costs too much to be competitive in business)
>
> > > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Steve Onnis 
> > wrote:
> > > > That's just it though.
>
> > > > I own all of my hardware outright, so the only costs at the moment for
> > > > us is the data centre costs which current is a little over 2k a month
> > > > and includes 100 Gb of data. I have full control of security,
> > > > firewalls, the servers, environments and if needed i can walk up to
> > > > the server, plug a USB drive in and either do backups or transfer
> > > > large amounts of data to my servers.  I have a full rack available to
> > > > me and i agree that if i was looking to expand, then the cost of
> > > > hardware will be more than a new instance in the cloud.
>
> > > > Looking at the figures starting out fresh, the TCO is much higher with
> > > > the typical data centre infrastructure on a hardware level and
> > > > possible hardware maintenance level but the ongoing costs of a cloud
> > > > seems to be just as high or higher than traditional data center
> > > > services for running systems.
>
> > > > Yes cloud scaling is nice but when then ongoing costs of basic
> > > > infrastructure ends up  being more what would be the compelling
> > > > argument to move to a cloud?
>
> > > > Steve
>
> > > > On Sep 8, 11:43 am, Chong  wrote:
> > > >> I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you
> > arrive at
> > > >> 450-500 per instance excluding data?
>
> > > >> With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to
> > estimate
> > > >> your actual usage till you get on it.
>
> > > >> For me the potential lies in
>
> > > >>    - Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of all
> > the
> > > >>    datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
> > > >>    - scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also believe
> > there is
> > > >>    the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
> > > >>    - Not needing to worry about hardware
>
> > > >> So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from EC2
> > is to
> > > >> architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different
> > "regions" ,
> > > >> know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing to
> > worry
> > > >> about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non
> > cloud.
>
> > > >> Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.
>
> > > >> Just my uneducated 2 cents :)
>
> > > > --
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> > Groups "cfaussie" group.
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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Blair McKenzie]

As far as I can tell there are three main advantages of "cloud"
infrastructure, and others have already mentioned most of them:
1) you don't have to manage your own hardware
2) pay by the hour - good for development, and ties into #3
3) you can bring up new instances effectively instantly - both adding more
servers to handle load, and removing unused instances to reduce cost

If you don't need for any of those, then you probably shouldn't go with EC2.

Blair

On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 2:24 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:

> my disaster plan is an open ended ticket to mexico! :)  kidding
>
> bi-daily backups etc
>
> The thing is even with all those backup plans it just adds more to the
> costs of running in a cloud.
>
> On Sep 8, 12:50 pm, Barry Beattie  wrote:
> > Steve:
> >
> > what's the Data Center's/your's disaster recovery plan?**
> >
> > How critical is it for you to deliver, say, 99.5% (or whatever in your
> > SLA) uptime to your customers?
> >
> > no criticism, not having a go, just curious if these are factors to
> > consider (what you've got Vs what EC2 can do for you).
> >
> > me: no affil/bias either way.
> >
> > B
> >
> > ** IIRC, there were a couple of P-o-P's inside the WTC ... until Sept
> > 11, that is (it's all about managing risk... and sometimes mitigating
> > all the risk just costs too much to be competitive in business)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Steve Onnis 
> wrote:
> > > That's just it though.
> >
> > > I own all of my hardware outright, so the only costs at the moment for
> > > us is the data centre costs which current is a little over 2k a month
> > > and includes 100 Gb of data. I have full control of security,
> > > firewalls, the servers, environments and if needed i can walk up to
> > > the server, plug a USB drive in and either do backups or transfer
> > > large amounts of data to my servers.  I have a full rack available to
> > > me and i agree that if i was looking to expand, then the cost of
> > > hardware will be more than a new instance in the cloud.
> >
> > > Looking at the figures starting out fresh, the TCO is much higher with
> > > the typical data centre infrastructure on a hardware level and
> > > possible hardware maintenance level but the ongoing costs of a cloud
> > > seems to be just as high or higher than traditional data center
> > > services for running systems.
> >
> > > Yes cloud scaling is nice but when then ongoing costs of basic
> > > infrastructure ends up  being more what would be the compelling
> > > argument to move to a cloud?
> >
> > > Steve
> >
> > > On Sep 8, 11:43 am, Chong  wrote:
> > >> I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you
> arrive at
> > >> 450-500 per instance excluding data?
> >
> > >> With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to
> estimate
> > >> your actual usage till you get on it.
> >
> > >> For me the potential lies in
> >
> > >>- Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of all
> the
> > >>datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
> > >>- scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also believe
> there is
> > >>the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
> > >>- Not needing to worry about hardware
> >
> > >> So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from EC2
> is to
> > >> architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different
> "regions" ,
> > >> know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing to
> worry
> > >> about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non
> cloud.
> >
> > >> Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.
> >
> > >> Just my uneducated 2 cents :)
> >
> > > --
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> Groups "cfaussie" group.
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[cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Steve Onnis]

my disaster plan is an open ended ticket to mexico! :)  kidding

bi-daily backups etc

The thing is even with all those backup plans it just adds more to the
costs of running in a cloud.

On Sep 8, 12:50 pm, Barry Beattie  wrote:
> Steve:
>
> what's the Data Center's/your's disaster recovery plan?**
>
> How critical is it for you to deliver, say, 99.5% (or whatever in your
> SLA) uptime to your customers?
>
> no criticism, not having a go, just curious if these are factors to
> consider (what you've got Vs what EC2 can do for you).
>
> me: no affil/bias either way.
>
> B
>
> ** IIRC, there were a couple of P-o-P's inside the WTC ... until Sept
> 11, that is (it's all about managing risk... and sometimes mitigating
> all the risk just costs too much to be competitive in business)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> > That's just it though.
>
> > I own all of my hardware outright, so the only costs at the moment for
> > us is the data centre costs which current is a little over 2k a month
> > and includes 100 Gb of data. I have full control of security,
> > firewalls, the servers, environments and if needed i can walk up to
> > the server, plug a USB drive in and either do backups or transfer
> > large amounts of data to my servers.  I have a full rack available to
> > me and i agree that if i was looking to expand, then the cost of
> > hardware will be more than a new instance in the cloud.
>
> > Looking at the figures starting out fresh, the TCO is much higher with
> > the typical data centre infrastructure on a hardware level and
> > possible hardware maintenance level but the ongoing costs of a cloud
> > seems to be just as high or higher than traditional data center
> > services for running systems.
>
> > Yes cloud scaling is nice but when then ongoing costs of basic
> > infrastructure ends up  being more what would be the compelling
> > argument to move to a cloud?
>
> > Steve
>
> > On Sep 8, 11:43 am, Chong  wrote:
> >> I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you arrive at
> >> 450-500 per instance excluding data?
>
> >> With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to estimate
> >> your actual usage till you get on it.
>
> >> For me the potential lies in
>
> >>    - Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of all the
> >>    datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
> >>    - scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also believe there 
> >> is
> >>    the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
> >>    - Not needing to worry about hardware
>
> >> So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from EC2 is to
> >> architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different "regions" ,
> >> know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing to worry
> >> about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non cloud.
>
> >> Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.
>
> >> Just my uneducated 2 cents :)
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "cfaussie" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to cfaussie@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group 
> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.

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Re: [cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Barry Beattie]

Steve:

what's the Data Center's/your's disaster recovery plan?**

How critical is it for you to deliver, say, 99.5% (or whatever in your
SLA) uptime to your customers?

no criticism, not having a go, just curious if these are factors to
consider (what you've got Vs what EC2 can do for you).

me: no affil/bias either way.

B


** IIRC, there were a couple of P-o-P's inside the WTC ... until Sept
11, that is (it's all about managing risk... and sometimes mitigating
all the risk just costs too much to be competitive in business)



On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Steve Onnis  wrote:
> That's just it though.
>
> I own all of my hardware outright, so the only costs at the moment for
> us is the data centre costs which current is a little over 2k a month
> and includes 100 Gb of data. I have full control of security,
> firewalls, the servers, environments and if needed i can walk up to
> the server, plug a USB drive in and either do backups or transfer
> large amounts of data to my servers.  I have a full rack available to
> me and i agree that if i was looking to expand, then the cost of
> hardware will be more than a new instance in the cloud.
>
> Looking at the figures starting out fresh, the TCO is much higher with
> the typical data centre infrastructure on a hardware level and
> possible hardware maintenance level but the ongoing costs of a cloud
> seems to be just as high or higher than traditional data center
> services for running systems.
>
> Yes cloud scaling is nice but when then ongoing costs of basic
> infrastructure ends up  being more what would be the compelling
> argument to move to a cloud?
>
> Steve
>
> On Sep 8, 11:43 am, Chong  wrote:
>> I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you arrive at
>> 450-500 per instance excluding data?
>>
>> With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to estimate
>> your actual usage till you get on it.
>>
>> For me the potential lies in
>>
>>    - Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of all the
>>    datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
>>    - scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also believe there is
>>    the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
>>    - Not needing to worry about hardware
>>
>> So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from EC2 is to
>> architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different "regions" ,
>> know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing to worry
>> about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non cloud.
>>
>> Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.
>>
>> Just my uneducated 2 cents :)
>
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>

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[cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Steve Onnis]

That's just it though.

I own all of my hardware outright, so the only costs at the moment for
us is the data centre costs which current is a little over 2k a month
and includes 100 Gb of data. I have full control of security,
firewalls, the servers, environments and if needed i can walk up to
the server, plug a USB drive in and either do backups or transfer
large amounts of data to my servers.  I have a full rack available to
me and i agree that if i was looking to expand, then the cost of
hardware will be more than a new instance in the cloud.

Looking at the figures starting out fresh, the TCO is much higher with
the typical data centre infrastructure on a hardware level and
possible hardware maintenance level but the ongoing costs of a cloud
seems to be just as high or higher than traditional data center
services for running systems.

Yes cloud scaling is nice but when then ongoing costs of basic
infrastructure ends up  being more what would be the compelling
argument to move to a cloud?

Steve

On Sep 8, 11:43 am, Chong  wrote:
> I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you arrive at
> 450-500 per instance excluding data?
>
> With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to estimate
> your actual usage till you get on it.
>
> For me the potential lies in
>
>    - Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of all the
>    datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
>    - scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also believe there is
>    the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
>    - Not needing to worry about hardware
>
> So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from EC2 is to
> architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different "regions" ,
> know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing to worry
> about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non cloud.
>
> Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.
>
> Just my uneducated 2 cents :)

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[cfaussie] Re: Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Chong]

I have an ex colleague that work projects uses EC2... how do you arrive at 
450-500 per instance excluding data?

With my discussions with him and a few others, it is very hard to estimate 
your actual usage till you get on it. 

For me the potential lies in

   - Ability to exist beyond different regions (the likely hood of all the 
   datacenters going down in all the region is very very small)
   - scalable (you can switch the instance type, and I also believe there is 
   the ability to create/increase capacity via code/conditions)
   - Not needing to worry about hardware
   
So for my understand so far, for you to get maximum benefit from EC2 is to 
architect the app/site  whereby it can exists between different "regions" , 
know how to interface with EC2 to scale when needed... not needing to worry 
about hardware is common with any hosting provider, cloud or non cloud.

Besides the fact that it is cheaper, due to scale of economics.

Just my uneducated 2 cents :)

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Re: [cfaussie] Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Chris Velevitch]

Whilst I haven't moved to the cloud, a couple of questions come to mind.

You haven't indicated what you currently spending per month to run
your current system and if you own the hardware. If you own the
hardware, have you factored in the replacement costs and the costs to
upgrade the hardware and how often you replace your hardware. With
Amazon, I suspect the hardware is consistently being upgraded the only
effort on your part is to stop, move and restart an instance and
you've upgraded.


Chris
--
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m: 0415 469 095
www.apugs.org.au

Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
Topic: Deploying Coldfusion into the Cloud
Date: 26th September 6pm for 6:30 start
Details and RSVP on
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[cfaussie] Amazon EC2 hosting services viability

[Steve Onnis]

I have been looking at the EC2 services and trying to work out if it
is cost effective or not and so far it is coming way short.

I am running windows servers and based on the calculator at
http://calculator.s3.amazonaws.com/calc5.html is will cost between
$450 and $500 per month per instance to host, plus an extra $50ish for
data.  I have  a rack with 7 servers and a few VMs running other
services,  so based on those numbers, to move my whole network into
the cloud it will cost me over $6,000.00 to move my network into the
cloud.

So i guess the question is, where do the savings come from? Just from
bandwith?  I appreciate there is the whole on demand elastic side of
it but from a cost-benefit perspective, is it really worth it?

Has anyone done the move and actually found cost benefits?


Steve

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Kai Koenig]

+1 - A message queue is the best solution for this type of problem.

Cheers
Kai


> I think the solution is a message queue. It's a system that guarantees
> the message (record) is delivered to the other system (database) and
> it can give that guarantee because it stores all the messages in it's
> own database. So when the remote system is unreachable the message
> queue stores all the messages in order and when the remote system
> comes back up, the stored messages are resent in order they where
> received.
> 
> There are a number of free open source message queues, so only issue
> is how much time, effort and resources (a second server) do you what
> to spend?
> 
> 
> Chris
> --







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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Andrew Scott]

Mike,

I reread the documentation it looks like the across multiple databases is in
fact an enterprise only feature, surprise surprise...


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Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543




On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 12:05 AM, Mike Kear  wrote:

> Ok i have the answer - "NO".For those who are just tuning in,  I
> asked whether i could wrap two queries on different datasources with
> CFTRANSACTION tags, and in CF9.0.1 I get an error message saying that
> the datasource for all queries inside CFTRANSACTION tags must be the
> same.
>
> So i think i am going to have to do the insert on the remote
> datasource,   then do a query on the same datasource to verify it has
> happened correctly, unless someone has a better idea.The most
> likely problem I foresee is that the internet might be down for one
> reason or another during a transaction.  In that case, I want the
> local processing to continue without a pause, and the remote database
> updated later on when the internet is up again,  and be able to ensure
> [a] no duplicate records are inserted on the remote database, and [b]
> no records are missed either.
>
> Anyone have a better idea?
>
> Cheers
> Mike Kear
> Windsor, NSW, Australia
> Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
> AFP Webworks
> http://afpwebworks.com
> ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Andrew Scott 
> wrote:
> > That’s ok Mike, I would assume that unless otherwise stated. So the
> answer
> > is yes to your question.
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Andrew Scott
> > WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> > Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
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>

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Mike Kear]

Ok i have the answer - "NO".For those who are just tuning in,  I
asked whether i could wrap two queries on different datasources with
CFTRANSACTION tags, and in CF9.0.1 I get an error message saying that
the datasource for all queries inside CFTRANSACTION tags must be the
same.

So i think i am going to have to do the insert on the remote
datasource,   then do a query on the same datasource to verify it has
happened correctly, unless someone has a better idea.The most
likely problem I foresee is that the internet might be down for one
reason or another during a transaction.  In that case, I want the
local processing to continue without a pause, and the remote database
updated later on when the internet is up again,  and be able to ensure
[a] no duplicate records are inserted on the remote database, and [b]
no records are missed either.

Anyone have a better idea?

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month



On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Andrew Scott  wrote:
> That’s ok Mike, I would assume that unless otherwise stated. So the answer
> is yes to your question.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
>
>
>
>

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RE: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Andrew Scott]

That’s ok Mike, I would assume that unless otherwise stated. So the answer
is yes to your question.

-- 
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543



-Original Message-
From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaussie@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Mike Kear
Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2011 10:31 PM
To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

Sorry Andrew, you're quite right - i forgot to say it's CF9.0.1.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting
from AUD$15/month


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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Mike Kear]

Sorry Andrew, you're quite right - i forgot to say it's CF9.0.1.

Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month



On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Andrew Scott  wrote:
> Mike,
> You don't say which version of ColdFusion your using either.
> btw
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/ColdFusion/9.0/CFMLRef/WSc3ff6d0ea77859461172e0811cbec22c24-7c6b.html
>
>

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[christophe albrech]

sorry, I meant to update that second update statement to false

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:23 PM, christophe albrech <
christophe.albr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I won't comment about CF or any other database server, but this is possible
> with SQL server.
>
> you need to create a link to your distant server first. Then in your
> example, instead of using a cftransaction and 2 cfquery with different dsn,
> you'd have something along the line of
>
> 
>   being tran t1
> begin try
>
> INSERT into linkedserver.distantdatabase.dbo.table
>values(...)
>
>
> Update eventrecord
> SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true
>
>COMMIT
> begin catch
>
>
> Update eventrecord
> SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true
>
> end catch
>   end try
> 
>
> I'm sure ant modern dbms would have a similar mechanism, but I'm very much
> a sql server fan boy, so it's the only thing I know ;-)
>
> as for actual cross-server transactions, you can configure something called
> DTC (Distributed Transaction Coordinator). It's pretty much an engine that
> allows a tran between 2 or more linked servers to be shared, and that
> manages commits and rollbacks as a whole.
>
> hope this helps.
>
> Tof
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:57 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:
>
>> I don't think ColdFusion cares about temp tables, as long as they exist at
>> that time of the query.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrew Scott
>> WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
>> Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:51 PM, ColdGen Internet Solutions <
>> coldgen.internet.soluti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is a big ask - what about a temporary table or backup table you can
>>> flag for records that made it through - you can compare commits to?
>>>
>>> I have a similar issue but for sending emails AND the database issue.
>>>
>>> Peter Tilbrook
>>> Web Administrator, The Club Group (ACT) Pty. Ltd.
>>> Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
>>> Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
>>> President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
>>> PO Box 2247
>>> Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
>>> AUSTRALIA
>>>
>>> Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
>>> Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016
>>>
>>> Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
>>> WWW: http://www.coldgen.com/
>>> WWW2: http://www.clubgroup.com.au/
>>>
>>> ABN: 80 826 226 128
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Andrew Scott]

Mike,

You don't say which version of ColdFusion your using either.

btw

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/ColdFusion/9.0/CFMLRef/WSc3ff6d0ea77859461172e0811cbec22c24-7c6b.html



On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Chris Velevitch
wrote:

> I think the solution is a message queue. It's a system that guarantees
> the message (record) is delivered to the other system (database) and
> it can give that guarantee because it stores all the messages in it's
> own database. So when the remote system is unreachable the message
> queue stores all the messages in order and when the remote system
> comes back up, the stored messages are resent in order they where
> received.
>
> There are a number of free open source message queues, so only issue
> is how much time, effort and resources (a second server) do you what
> to spend?
>
>
> Chris
> --
> Chris Velevitch
> Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
> m: 0415 469 095
> www.apugs.org.au
>
> Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
> Topic: Deploying Coldfusion into the Cloud
> Date: 26th September 6pm for 6:30 start
> Details and RSVP on
> http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=38239
>
> --
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Andrew Scott
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Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[christophe albrech]

Hi Mike,

I won't comment about CF or any other database server, but this is possible
with SQL server.

you need to create a link to your distant server first. Then in your
example, instead of using a cftransaction and 2 cfquery with different dsn,
you'd have something along the line of


  being tran t1
begin try

INSERT into linkedserver.distantdatabase.dbo.table
   values(...)

Update eventrecord
SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true

   COMMIT
begin catch

Update eventrecord
SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true

end catch
  end try


I'm sure ant modern dbms would have a similar mechanism, but I'm very much a
sql server fan boy, so it's the only thing I know ;-)

as for actual cross-server transactions, you can configure something called
DTC (Distributed Transaction Coordinator). It's pretty much an engine that
allows a tran between 2 or more linked servers to be shared, and that
manages commits and rollbacks as a whole.

hope this helps.

Tof

On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:57 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

> I don't think ColdFusion cares about temp tables, as long as they exist at
> that time of the query.
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:51 PM, ColdGen Internet Solutions <
> coldgen.internet.soluti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is a big ask - what about a temporary table or backup table you can
>> flag for records that made it through - you can compare commits to?
>>
>> I have a similar issue but for sending emails AND the database issue.
>>
>> Peter Tilbrook
>> Web Administrator, The Club Group (ACT) Pty. Ltd.
>> Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
>> Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
>> President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
>> PO Box 2247
>> Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
>> AUSTRALIA
>>
>> Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
>> Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016
>>
>> Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
>> WWW: http://www.coldgen.com/
>> WWW2: http://www.clubgroup.com.au/
>>
>> ABN: 80 826 226 128
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>  --
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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Chris Velevitch]

I think the solution is a message queue. It's a system that guarantees
the message (record) is delivered to the other system (database) and
it can give that guarantee because it stores all the messages in it's
own database. So when the remote system is unreachable the message
queue stores all the messages in order and when the remote system
comes back up, the stored messages are resent in order they where
received.

There are a number of free open source message queues, so only issue
is how much time, effort and resources (a second server) do you what
to spend?


Chris
--
Chris Velevitch
Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
m: 0415 469 095
www.apugs.org.au

Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney
Topic: Deploying Coldfusion into the Cloud
Date: 26th September 6pm for 6:30 start
Details and RSVP on
http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=38239

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Mike Kear]

No idont think a temp table will solve the problem,  which is
bascially  "how can i be sure that the remote database has updated,
and if not,  be sure of finding the correct records later when i try
it again - without doubling up on records in teh remote database,  or
alternatively missing any?"

One way i could do it is to perform the remote insert,  then
immediately do a query on the remote database for that record, but i
was hoping to do it without requiring another trip out to the remote
database.  Hence the question about CFTRANSACTION.


Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month




On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:57 PM, Andrew Scott  wrote:
> I don't think ColdFusion cares about temp tables, as long as they exist at
> that time of the query.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
>
>

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Andrew Scott]

I don't think ColdFusion cares about temp tables, as long as they exist at
that time of the query.


-- 
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543



On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:51 PM, ColdGen Internet Solutions <
coldgen.internet.soluti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is a big ask - what about a temporary table or backup table you can
> flag for records that made it through - you can compare commits to?
>
> I have a similar issue but for sending emails AND the database issue.
>
> Peter Tilbrook
> Web Administrator, The Club Group (ACT) Pty. Ltd.
> Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
> Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
> President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
> PO Box 2247
> Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
> AUSTRALIA
>
> Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
> Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016
>
> Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
> WWW: http://www.coldgen.com/
> WWW2: http://www.clubgroup.com.au/
>
> ABN: 80 826 226 128
>
>
>
>

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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[ColdGen Internet Solutions]

Is a big ask - what about a temporary table or backup table you can
flag for records that made it through - you can compare commits to?

I have a similar issue but for sending emails AND the database issue.

Peter Tilbrook
Web Administrator, The Club Group (ACT) Pty. Ltd.
Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
PO Box 2247
Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
AUSTRALIA

Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016

Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
WWW: http://www.coldgen.com/
WWW2: http://www.clubgroup.com.au/

ABN: 80 826 226 128



On 7 September 2011 21:36, Andrew Scott  wrote:
> ColdFusion 9 or 9.01, I think added this, not 100% certain on it though.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Mike Kear  wrote:
>>
>> The scenario:
>>
>> I have a local application, which updates a local database as a
>> business process goes on.    But I want the application also to update
>> a remote database, with the details of this event, then set a flag in
>> the local record that the record has been exported to the remote
>> database.     However I'm building error handling to provide for the
>> possibility that the remote database might not be available.   I dont
>> want that to stop the local application, or it will close the business
>> down.     I want the business to go on,  the customer satisfied and
>> the web site can be updated later on when the internet connection is
>> back up again
>>
>> Does CFTRANSACTION handle the commit/rollback of both databases if any
>> part of the queries fails?        I would code it kind of like this:
>>
>> 
>>   
>>         INSERT into eventrecord   yada yada yada
>>    
>>   
>>         Update eventrecord
>>         SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true
>>         WHERE  eventID = > cfsqltype="cf_sql_integer"/>
>>    
>> 
>>
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Mike Kear
>> Windsor, NSW, Australia
>> Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
>> AFP Webworks
>> http://afpwebworks.com
>> ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month
>>
>> --
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>> "cfaussie" group.
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>> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543
>
> --
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Re: [cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Andrew Scott]

ColdFusion 9 or 9.01, I think added this, not 100% certain on it though.


On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 9:23 PM, Mike Kear  wrote:

> The scenario:
>
> I have a local application, which updates a local database as a
> business process goes on.But I want the application also to update
> a remote database, with the details of this event, then set a flag in
> the local record that the record has been exported to the remote
> database. However I'm building error handling to provide for the
> possibility that the remote database might not be available.   I dont
> want that to stop the local application, or it will close the business
> down. I want the business to go on,  the customer satisfied and
> the web site can be updated later on when the internet connection is
> back up again
>
> Does CFTRANSACTION handle the commit/rollback of both databases if any
> part of the queries fails?I would code it kind of like this:
>
> 
>   
> INSERT into eventrecord   yada yada yada
>
>   
> Update eventrecord
> SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true
> WHERE  eventID =  cfsqltype="cf_sql_integer"/>
>
> 
>
> --
> Cheers
> Mike Kear
> Windsor, NSW, Australia
> Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
> AFP Webworks
> http://afpwebworks.com
> ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month
>
> --
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> cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>
>


-- 
Regards,
Andrew Scott
WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/
Google+: http://plus.google.com/108193156965451149543

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[cfaussie] Does CFTRANSACTION work across multiple datasources?

[Mike Kear]

The scenario:

I have a local application, which updates a local database as a
business process goes on.But I want the application also to update
a remote database, with the details of this event, then set a flag in
the local record that the record has been exported to the remote
database. However I'm building error handling to provide for the
possibility that the remote database might not be available.   I dont
want that to stop the local application, or it will close the business
down. I want the business to go on,  the customer satisfied and
the web site can be updated later on when the internet connection is
back up again

Does CFTRANSACTION handle the commit/rollback of both databases if any
part of the queries fails?I would code it kind of like this:


   
 INSERT into eventrecord   yada yada yada

   
 Update eventrecord
 SET  exportedToRemoteDB = true
 WHERE  eventID = 



-- 
Cheers
Mike Kear
Windsor, NSW, Australia
Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer
AFP Webworks
http://afpwebworks.com
ColdFusion 9 Enterprise, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month

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Re: [cfaussie] Student Ticket Competition for cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex

[ColdGen Internet Solutions]

Added to ACTCFUG:

http://www.actcfug.com/index.cfm?actcfug=NewsView&NewsID=613

Peter Tilbrook
Web Administrator, The Club Group (ACT) Pty. Ltd.
Managing Director, ColdGen Internet Solutions
Professional Adobe ColdFusion 9 Application Development
President, ACT and Region ColdFusion Users Group
PO Box 2247
Queanbeyan, NSW, 2620
AUSTRALIA

Tel: +61-2-6284-2727
Mob: +61-2-0457-449-016

Email Address: pe...@coldgen.com
WWW: http://www.coldgen.com/
WWW2: http://www.clubgroup.com.au/

ABN: 80 826 226 128



On 7 September 2011 17:47, Mark Mandel  wrote:
> Sorry for the plug, but in case people aren't aware, we are running a
> competition for a current ANZ Student to win free flights, accommodation and
> a ticket to cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex.
> Entry is a pretty simple 200 word entry, so nothing too crazy! Rules can be
> found here:
> http://cfobjective.com.au/news/student-ticket-accommodation-and-flights-give-away
> I think it will be a pretty good opportunity for a young student to get some
> great real-world tech industry perspective at a young age.
> If you know any students or educational institutions, please feel free to
> pass on these details, the more entries the better! :)
> Thanks!
> Mark
>
> --
> E: mark.man...@gmail.com
> T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
> W: www.compoundtheory.com
>
> cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex - Nov 17, 18 - Melbourne Australia
> http://www.cfobjective.com.au
>
> 2 Devs from Down Under Podcast
> http://www.2ddu.com/
>
> --
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Re: [cfaussie] Student Ticket Competition for cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]

[Richard Turner-Jones]

Plugging at User Group meeting tonight http://www.baug.com.au

Richard

Mark Mandel  wrote:

>Sorry for the plug, but in case people aren't aware, we are running a
>competition for a current ANZ Student to win free flights, accommodation and
>a ticket to cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex.
>
>Entry is a pretty simple 200 word entry, so nothing too crazy! Rules can be
>found here:
>http://cfobjective.com.au/news/student-ticket-accommodation-and-flights-give-away
>
>I think it will be a pretty good opportunity for a young student to get some
>great real-world tech industry perspective at a young age.
>
>If you know any students or educational institutions, please feel free to
>pass on these details, the more entries the better! :)
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mark
>
>-- 
>E: mark.man...@gmail.com
>T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
>W: www.compoundtheory.com
>
>cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex - Nov 17, 18 - Melbourne Australia
>http://www.cfobjective.com.au
>
>2 Devs from Down Under Podcast
>http://www.2ddu.com/
>
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[cfaussie] Student Ticket Competition for cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex

[Mark Mandel]

Sorry for the plug, but in case people aren't aware, we are running a
competition for a current ANZ Student to win free flights, accommodation and
a ticket to cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex.

Entry is a pretty simple 200 word entry, so nothing too crazy! Rules can be
found here:
http://cfobjective.com.au/news/student-ticket-accommodation-and-flights-give-away

I think it will be a pretty good opportunity for a young student to get some
great real-world tech industry perspective at a young age.

If you know any students or educational institutions, please feel free to
pass on these details, the more entries the better! :)

Thanks!

Mark

-- 
E: mark.man...@gmail.com
T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic
W: www.compoundtheory.com

cf.Objective(ANZ) + Flex - Nov 17, 18 - Melbourne Australia
http://www.cfobjective.com.au

2 Devs from Down Under Podcast
http://www.2ddu.com/

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