Re: [Jchat] Where is J going ?

[Björn Helgason]

asatru.is

lots of powerful operators with well defined roles and rules.

never tells you what to do or not to do.

only tells you what happens if you do.

On 10 Mar 2018 20:08, "Ian Clark"  wrote:

If all programming language communities are religions, then might J be
classified as a heresy?

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:01 PM, Jo van Schalkwyk 
wrote:

> Heh. All programming language communities are indistinguishable from
> religions. It's a human thing. My 2c, Jo.
>
> On 9 March 2018 at 08:40, R.E. Boss  wrote:
>
> > Contrary to what most people think, J is not a programming language, J
is
> > a religion, at least it shares a remarkable number of characteristics
> with
> > a religion (and if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...).
> > Ken Iverson is called The Almighty and Roger Hui his Archangel (
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/general/2001-July/007034.html), and
> > like real believers it does not matter that the first passed away and
the
> > second has changed jobs with a collegial religion. Perhaps together with
> > the current Iverson, they can be better considered as the Father, the
> Holy
> > Spirit and the Son. And since we have the Deity defined, we need a Pope,
> > and who better than Henry Rich could play that role? He even
> > single-handedly extended and optimised the religion, not to mention the
> > Dissect he created, which teaches you to recognize your sins. Recently,
> the
> > Pope created NuVoc, a children's bible, or, more modern, the bible for
> > dummies.
> > The Dictionary of course is our original Bible, Koran if you want, and
> the
> > Vocabulary our catechism, actually only accessible for priests. However,
> we
> > don't have priests in our community. We do have, c.f.
> > https://simplifyconnections.appspot.com/?place=J , novices, advBegs,
> > competents, proficients, experts and others, which are probably the
> > heathens. Problem is that we are very tolerant within our community and
> you
> > may give yourself any title you think is appropriate. Perhaps the Pope
> > should give this issue some attention.
> >
> > Contrary to most religions, we don’t preach much, since we only accept
> new
> > members via a rather steep learning curve. We even don't do much to help
> > the newbies or even stimulate them to climb that mountain. So the old
> > religious saying "many are called, but few are chosen" is applied here
> as "
> > many are challenged, but few succeed".
> > But as soon as you advance the learning curve more than halfway, you
> > experience heaven.
> > However, what most new converts do then (not uncommon in religions), is
> > try to convert their surroundings to their new religion, unfortunately
> > mostly in vain. And if they discover that, they try to alter J, which
> > appears to be even harder.
> > Some 'fork' religions have been grown, even more obscure than J, but
> above
> > all, they lack the Trinity J has, which is quite a drawback for a new
> faith.
> > So here you are, new member of a cult, perhaps even a sect, what now?
> > Since I am only a proficient, happy member of this community, I'm afraid
> I
> > cannot help you.
> >
> >
> > R.E Boss
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chat  On Behalf Of james
> > > faure
> > > Sent: donderdag 1 maart 2018 03:40
> > > To: c...@jsoftware.com
> > > Subject: [Jchat] Where is J going ?
> > >
> > > Andrew Dabrowski is right. If J continues to steer it's current
course,
> > it will be
> > > quickly forgotten. Roger Hui himself seems to have abandonned J
> (correct
> > > me if I am mistaken), in favor of Dyalog APL. I can vouch from first
> hand
> > > experience how incredibly difficult it is to interest my friends in J
> > and in fact
> > > have yet to get a single other person from Epitech
> > > http://international.epitech.eu/ to learn J, even though I believe
> they
> > are
> > > convinced of it's power.
> > >
> > > Epitech International
> > > international.epitech.eu
> > > Dear International Students, We will be happy to welcome you to
Epitech
> > > and hope you will enjoy this unique learning experience! Epitech has
> > > solidified its reputation ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Since I seem to be by far the youngest person with a serious interest
> in
> > J, I
> > > will try to explain my understanding of the current situation, in the
> > hope that
> > > it may be useful to jsoftware. I also must say that between the time
> > that I
> > > heard of J and commited to learning it, I was extremely unsure about
> > > whether the language would have a future and whether it would be
> suitable
> > > to do everything. Ultimately, Henry Rich's success story is the reason
> I
> > am
> > > here, without it I would probably still be wondering to myself from
> time
> > to
> > > time about J, but without the conviction that it is suitable, or worth
> > learning.
> > > Project Euler also played a big part, and seems to be the main place
> > where
> > > people first hear abou

Re: [Jchat] Where is J going ?

[Jo van Schalkwyk]

Heresy indeed. Both to other religions---erm, programming languages---and
of course to APL devotees, to whom it is crystal clear that J strays from
the one true path. Let's not even talk about K, the infidels :)  Jo.

On 11 March 2018 at 09:08, Ian Clark  wrote:

> If all programming language communities are religions, then might J be
> classified as a heresy?
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:01 PM, Jo van Schalkwyk 
> wrote:
>
> > Heh. All programming language communities are indistinguishable from
> > religions. It's a human thing. My 2c, Jo.
> >
> > On 9 March 2018 at 08:40, R.E. Boss  wrote:
> >
> > > Contrary to what most people think, J is not a programming language, J
> is
> > > a religion, at least it shares a remarkable number of characteristics
> > with
> > > a religion (and if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...).
> > > Ken Iverson is called The Almighty and Roger Hui his Archangel (
> > > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/general/2001-July/007034.html), and
> > > like real believers it does not matter that the first passed away and
> the
> > > second has changed jobs with a collegial religion. Perhaps together
> with
> > > the current Iverson, they can be better considered as the Father, the
> > Holy
> > > Spirit and the Son. And since we have the Deity defined, we need a
> Pope,
> > > and who better than Henry Rich could play that role? He even
> > > single-handedly extended and optimised the religion, not to mention the
> > > Dissect he created, which teaches you to recognize your sins. Recently,
> > the
> > > Pope created NuVoc, a children's bible, or, more modern, the bible for
> > > dummies.
> > > The Dictionary of course is our original Bible, Koran if you want, and
> > the
> > > Vocabulary our catechism, actually only accessible for priests.
> However,
> > we
> > > don't have priests in our community. We do have, c.f.
> > > https://simplifyconnections.appspot.com/?place=J , novices, advBegs,
> > > competents, proficients, experts and others, which are probably the
> > > heathens. Problem is that we are very tolerant within our community and
> > you
> > > may give yourself any title you think is appropriate. Perhaps the Pope
> > > should give this issue some attention.
> > >
> > > Contrary to most religions, we don’t preach much, since we only accept
> > new
> > > members via a rather steep learning curve. We even don't do much to
> help
> > > the newbies or even stimulate them to climb that mountain. So the old
> > > religious saying "many are called, but few are chosen" is applied here
> > as "
> > > many are challenged, but few succeed".
> > > But as soon as you advance the learning curve more than halfway, you
> > > experience heaven.
> > > However, what most new converts do then (not uncommon in religions), is
> > > try to convert their surroundings to their new religion, unfortunately
> > > mostly in vain. And if they discover that, they try to alter J, which
> > > appears to be even harder.
> > > Some 'fork' religions have been grown, even more obscure than J, but
> > above
> > > all, they lack the Trinity J has, which is quite a drawback for a new
> > faith.
> > > So here you are, new member of a cult, perhaps even a sect, what now?
> > > Since I am only a proficient, happy member of this community, I'm
> afraid
> > I
> > > cannot help you.
> > >
> > >
> > > R.E Boss
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Chat  On Behalf Of james
> > > > faure
> > > > Sent: donderdag 1 maart 2018 03:40
> > > > To: c...@jsoftware.com
> > > > Subject: [Jchat] Where is J going ?
> > > >
> > > > Andrew Dabrowski is right. If J continues to steer it's current
> course,
> > > it will be
> > > > quickly forgotten. Roger Hui himself seems to have abandonned J
> > (correct
> > > > me if I am mistaken), in favor of Dyalog APL. I can vouch from first
> > hand
> > > > experience how incredibly difficult it is to interest my friends in J
> > > and in fact
> > > > have yet to get a single other person from Epitech
> > > > http://international.epitech.eu/ to learn J, even though I believe
> > they
> > > are
> > > > convinced of it's power.
> > > >
> > > > Epitech International
> > > > international.epitech.eu
> > > > Dear International Students, We will be happy to welcome you to
> Epitech
> > > > and hope you will enjoy this unique learning experience! Epitech has
> > > > solidified its reputation ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Since I seem to be by far the youngest person with a serious interest
> > in
> > > J, I
> > > > will try to explain my understanding of the current situation, in the
> > > hope that
> > > > it may be useful to jsoftware. I also must say that between the time
> > > that I
> > > > heard of J and commited to learning it, I was extremely unsure about
> > > > whether the language would have a future and whether it would be
> > suitable
> > > > to do everything. Ultimately, Henry Rich's success story is the
> reason
> > I
> 

Re: [Jchat] Where is J going ?

[Ian Clark]

If all programming language communities are religions, then might J be
classified as a heresy?

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 8:01 PM, Jo van Schalkwyk 
wrote:

> Heh. All programming language communities are indistinguishable from
> religions. It's a human thing. My 2c, Jo.
>
> On 9 March 2018 at 08:40, R.E. Boss  wrote:
>
> > Contrary to what most people think, J is not a programming language, J is
> > a religion, at least it shares a remarkable number of characteristics
> with
> > a religion (and if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ...).
> > Ken Iverson is called The Almighty and Roger Hui his Archangel (
> > http://www.jsoftware.com/pipermail/general/2001-July/007034.html), and
> > like real believers it does not matter that the first passed away and the
> > second has changed jobs with a collegial religion. Perhaps together with
> > the current Iverson, they can be better considered as the Father, the
> Holy
> > Spirit and the Son. And since we have the Deity defined, we need a Pope,
> > and who better than Henry Rich could play that role? He even
> > single-handedly extended and optimised the religion, not to mention the
> > Dissect he created, which teaches you to recognize your sins. Recently,
> the
> > Pope created NuVoc, a children's bible, or, more modern, the bible for
> > dummies.
> > The Dictionary of course is our original Bible, Koran if you want, and
> the
> > Vocabulary our catechism, actually only accessible for priests. However,
> we
> > don't have priests in our community. We do have, c.f.
> > https://simplifyconnections.appspot.com/?place=J , novices, advBegs,
> > competents, proficients, experts and others, which are probably the
> > heathens. Problem is that we are very tolerant within our community and
> you
> > may give yourself any title you think is appropriate. Perhaps the Pope
> > should give this issue some attention.
> >
> > Contrary to most religions, we don’t preach much, since we only accept
> new
> > members via a rather steep learning curve. We even don't do much to help
> > the newbies or even stimulate them to climb that mountain. So the old
> > religious saying "many are called, but few are chosen" is applied here
> as "
> > many are challenged, but few succeed".
> > But as soon as you advance the learning curve more than halfway, you
> > experience heaven.
> > However, what most new converts do then (not uncommon in religions), is
> > try to convert their surroundings to their new religion, unfortunately
> > mostly in vain. And if they discover that, they try to alter J, which
> > appears to be even harder.
> > Some 'fork' religions have been grown, even more obscure than J, but
> above
> > all, they lack the Trinity J has, which is quite a drawback for a new
> faith.
> > So here you are, new member of a cult, perhaps even a sect, what now?
> > Since I am only a proficient, happy member of this community, I'm afraid
> I
> > cannot help you.
> >
> >
> > R.E Boss
> >
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Chat  On Behalf Of james
> > > faure
> > > Sent: donderdag 1 maart 2018 03:40
> > > To: c...@jsoftware.com
> > > Subject: [Jchat] Where is J going ?
> > >
> > > Andrew Dabrowski is right. If J continues to steer it's current course,
> > it will be
> > > quickly forgotten. Roger Hui himself seems to have abandonned J
> (correct
> > > me if I am mistaken), in favor of Dyalog APL. I can vouch from first
> hand
> > > experience how incredibly difficult it is to interest my friends in J
> > and in fact
> > > have yet to get a single other person from Epitech
> > > http://international.epitech.eu/ to learn J, even though I believe
> they
> > are
> > > convinced of it's power.
> > >
> > > Epitech International
> > > international.epitech.eu
> > > Dear International Students, We will be happy to welcome you to Epitech
> > > and hope you will enjoy this unique learning experience! Epitech has
> > > solidified its reputation ...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Since I seem to be by far the youngest person with a serious interest
> in
> > J, I
> > > will try to explain my understanding of the current situation, in the
> > hope that
> > > it may be useful to jsoftware. I also must say that between the time
> > that I
> > > heard of J and commited to learning it, I was extremely unsure about
> > > whether the language would have a future and whether it would be
> suitable
> > > to do everything. Ultimately, Henry Rich's success story is the reason
> I
> > am
> > > here, without it I would probably still be wondering to myself from
> time
> > to
> > > time about J, but without the conviction that it is suitable, or worth
> > learning.
> > > Project Euler also played a big part, and seems to be the main place
> > where
> > > people first hear about J nowadays. And even with those conditions
> being
> > > met, If I learned J, it is only because I am both extremely determined,
> > and
> > > was able to complete school projects with plenty of sp