[freenet-chat] ISPs will decide the outcome (was: Finding a key on your node)
From: "Greg Wooledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Would it be hard for an ISP to block out just Freenet traffic? >Yes, because Freenet runs on arbitrary TCP/IP ports. (The plurality of >nodes are running on port 19114, because some of the Freenet packages >default to that, but there are a great number of nodes that run on random >port numbers.) > >And even if they do block your node, you can just restart it on a >different port. (You'll have to move or purge your data store.) I forsee that the battle will be decided by the ISPs, and their individual decisions. Due to the (still) small number of people using non-standard protocols, ISPs face very small business disadvantage from restricting access to non-standard ports. For instance, my ISP has an explicit policy restricting me from running any kind of server. (bah!) There aren't many protocols requiring ISPs to allow incoming connections to subscribers' PCs. OTOH, ISPs tend to fear the economic threat of angry legal actions from content-owners. As one ISP explained to me, when I was hosting a banned book, "The revenue we receive from you is insignificant compared to the potential legal costs we could incur from court action. Therefore it makes little business sense to allow you to keep making that book available for download." The way I see it is that some or many ISPs will try firewalling off all non-standard connections, and only reinstate access to these if an overwhelming number of subscribers threaten to move to other ISPs. If I know AOL's mentality, with their large US market share, this is something they might try on. What will decide the outcome is whether a large enough percentage of ISPs dig in their heels and stand up to RIAA demands, and defend their subscribers' freedoms. If enough brave ISPs go it alone, they will in time gain a well-earned market share. But if ISPs collaborate, and jointly initiate port-blocking, then internet freedom will be a thing of the past. Until, of course, technologies such as Freenet start to 'tunnel' through the 'official' protocols. In *that* case, the *real* battle will begin - imagine the furore as masses of people find out that their intimate NetMeeting conversations are being monitored on suspicion that they're actually carrying Freenet traffic! Yet another scenario - "dob in"/"fink on" a Freenet node - RIAA pays lackeys to run Freenet nodes, and discover as many other Freenet nodes as possible - paying a bounty for every Freenet node found and shut down. And - getting more paranoid - RIAA, BSA, M$ etc setting up 'blacklists' of ISPs who (1) allow Freenet nodes, or (2) allow *any* traffic from other blacklisted nodes. A heavily bankrolled scheme where ISPs are assumed guilty unless proven otherwise - ISPs having to submit to detailed ongoing audits to maintain their "Intellectual Property Compliance Certification". Part of this certification requires the ISP to automatically block *all* traffic to/from non-certified ISPs. This is the kind of shit that Arthur Miller wrote about in The Crucible - "Are you now or have you ever been a file-sharer?". Times are getting interesting... David ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
As I see it, one very real threat with M$ comes from its financial wealth, which can be used to put heavy pressure on cash-strapped university CS departments. In New Zealand, despite the massive economic boom happening here, universities are on the brink of closure. For any CS professor faced with old inadqeuate equipment, angry underpaid staff, dwindling student enrolments and loss of credibility (and possible loss of tenure), it could prove very tempting to accept large cash injections from M$, in return for teaching courses on .net, C#, and subliminating academic freedom in favour of M$'s 'business models'. We could see whole new generations of programmers who are completely anti-Linux, anti-GPL, even anti-BSD. David - Original Message - From: "Stefan Reich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 06:12 Subject: Re: [freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really. > MS wants to be independent of Sun - in the long run, they wouldn't be happy > with Java anyway. They tried embrace-and-extend, but this time, it didn't > really work. So now they try to replace Java. It's a question of power. > > -Stefan > > - Original Message - > From: "Richard Forno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Robert Hajime Lanning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Chuck Peters" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: "Seth Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:00 PM > Subject: [freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really. > > > > I've heard that as a result of their settlement with Sun MS is limited to > > Java 1.something in its license - not the latest and greatest > > Java..which is why they're pushing C-Flat as their Java equivalent. > > > > Can anyone confirm/deny this? > > > > rf > > > > > > > From: Robert Hajime Lanning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:57:35 -0700 (PDT) > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chuck Peters) > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Seth Johnson), > [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really. > > > > > > This is realy a battle between MS and Sun. MS is trying to displace > Java > > > with C# since they lost the court battle. > > > > > > As written by Chuck Peters: > > >> > > >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Folks, read this. I speak in grave tones a lot of times, but let's be > > >>> very clear, now: > > >>> > > >>> The end game is upon us. The apolitical BSD license is now being > pitted > > >>> directly against the GPL license, by M$ itself. > > >>> > > >>> It's so very sly. Just think about it. But if we see it right up, we > > >>> *might* be able to counter it. I don't know: > > >>> > > >>> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2001/06/27/dotnet.html > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Ask me what I mean, if you don't see what I'm saying. I'm pissed and > > >>> anxious as heck about this. > > >> > > >> I'm not clear on what you mean about it being the end game. As I see > it > > >> the battle is just starting to heat up, I don't think were even close > to > > >> the end game yet. It's more of the MS embrace and extend strategy. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Chuck > > >> > > >> > > >> ___ > > >> svlug mailing list > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >> http://lists.svlug.org/mailman/listinfo/svlug > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > /* Robert Hajime Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > ** Trade: Unix Systems Administrator (Senior level) (SAGE IV) > > > */ > > > #include > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Chat mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Finding a key on your node
Chad Phillips ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > Would it be hard for an ISP to block out just Freenet traffic? Yes, because Freenet runs on arbitrary TCP/IP ports. (The plurality of nodes are running on port 19114, because some of the Freenet packages default to that, but there are a great number of nodes that run on random port numbers.) And even if they do block your node, you can just restart it on a different port. (You'll have to move or purge your data store.) -- Greg Wooledge | "Truth belongs to everybody." [EMAIL PROTECTED] |- The Red Hot Chili Peppers http://wooledge.org/~greg/ | PGP signature
Re: [freenet-chat] Finding a key on your node
FYI, I am writing a paper on freenet for a copyright law class. So most of my questions are purely academic. >Actually, this whole discussion is moot -- if I wanted to search a known >node for a file, I would just do > freenet_request -h 1 -s tcp/XX.XX.XX.XX:Y KEY tempfile Wouldn't this greatly cut down on anonimity? Companies like http://www.rangerinc.com already scan gnutella traffic for copyrighted songs. It make there job easier if they were able to check specific nodes for keys to copyrighted material. >(1) Where's their search warrant? They don't need a warrant. Only the police need that. Under copyright law you can be held vicariously liable if a person has the "right and ability to supervise" what is going on. In the Napster case, the RIAA gave Napster a list of songs that were on Napster and asked for them to be removed. >If you think the Internet just means "web surfing", you've already >been brainwashed. Would it be hard for an ISP to block out just Freenet traffic? ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
MS wants to be independent of Sun - in the long run, they wouldn't be happy with Java anyway. They tried embrace-and-extend, but this time, it didn't really work. So now they try to replace Java. It's a question of power. -Stefan - Original Message - From: "Richard Forno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Robert Hajime Lanning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Chuck Peters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "Seth Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 8:00 PM Subject: [freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really. > I've heard that as a result of their settlement with Sun MS is limited to > Java 1.something in its license - not the latest and greatest > Java..which is why they're pushing C-Flat as their Java equivalent. > > Can anyone confirm/deny this? > > rf > > > > From: Robert Hajime Lanning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:57:35 -0700 (PDT) > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chuck Peters) > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Seth Johnson), [EMAIL PROTECTED], > > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really. > > > > This is realy a battle between MS and Sun. MS is trying to displace Java > > with C# since they lost the court battle. > > > > As written by Chuck Peters: > >> > >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Folks, read this. I speak in grave tones a lot of times, but let's be > >>> very clear, now: > >>> > >>> The end game is upon us. The apolitical BSD license is now being pitted > >>> directly against the GPL license, by M$ itself. > >>> > >>> It's so very sly. Just think about it. But if we see it right up, we > >>> *might* be able to counter it. I don't know: > >>> > >>> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2001/06/27/dotnet.html > >>> > >>> > >>> Ask me what I mean, if you don't see what I'm saying. I'm pissed and > >>> anxious as heck about this. > >> > >> I'm not clear on what you mean about it being the end game. As I see it > >> the battle is just starting to heat up, I don't think were even close to > >> the end game yet. It's more of the MS embrace and extend strategy. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Chuck > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> svlug mailing list > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> http://lists.svlug.org/mailman/listinfo/svlug > >> > > > > > > -- > > /* Robert Hajime Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ** Trade: Unix Systems Administrator (Senior level) (SAGE IV) > > */ > > #include > > > > > ___ > Chat mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
I've heard that as a result of their settlement with Sun MS is limited to Java 1.something in its license - not the latest and greatest Java..which is why they're pushing C-Flat as their Java equivalent. Can anyone confirm/deny this? rf > From: Robert Hajime Lanning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 10:57:35 -0700 (PDT) > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chuck Peters) > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Seth Johnson), [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really. > > This is realy a battle between MS and Sun. MS is trying to displace Java > with C# since they lost the court battle. > > As written by Chuck Peters: >> >> On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: >> >>> >>> Folks, read this. I speak in grave tones a lot of times, but let's be >>> very clear, now: >>> >>> The end game is upon us. The apolitical BSD license is now being pitted >>> directly against the GPL license, by M$ itself. >>> >>> It's so very sly. Just think about it. But if we see it right up, we >>> *might* be able to counter it. I don't know: >>> >>> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2001/06/27/dotnet.html >>> >>> >>> Ask me what I mean, if you don't see what I'm saying. I'm pissed and >>> anxious as heck about this. >> >> I'm not clear on what you mean about it being the end game. As I see it >> the battle is just starting to heat up, I don't think were even close to >> the end game yet. It's more of the MS embrace and extend strategy. >> >> Thanks, >> Chuck >> >> >> ___ >> svlug mailing list >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> http://lists.svlug.org/mailman/listinfo/svlug >> > > > -- > /* Robert Hajime Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** Trade: Unix Systems Administrator (Senior level) (SAGE IV) > */ > #include > ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [svlug] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
This is realy a battle between MS and Sun. MS is trying to displace Java with C# since they lost the court battle. As written by Chuck Peters: > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Seth Johnson wrote: > > > > > Folks, read this. I speak in grave tones a lot of times, but let's be > > very clear, now: > > > > The end game is upon us. The apolitical BSD license is now being pitted > > directly against the GPL license, by M$ itself. > > > > It's so very sly. Just think about it. But if we see it right up, we > > *might* be able to counter it. I don't know: > > > > http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2001/06/27/dotnet.html > > > > > > Ask me what I mean, if you don't see what I'm saying. I'm pissed and > > anxious as heck about this. > > I'm not clear on what you mean about it being the end game. As I see it > the battle is just starting to heat up, I don't think were even close to > the end game yet. It's more of the MS embrace and extend strategy. > > Thanks, > Chuck > > > ___ > svlug mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.svlug.org/mailman/listinfo/svlug > -- /* Robert Hajime Lanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** Trade: Unix Systems Administrator (Senior level) (SAGE IV) */ #include ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: [nylug-talk] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:10:35AM -0400, Blake S. wrote: > > > The end game is upon us. The apolitical BSD license is now being pitted > > > directly against the GPL license, by M$ itself. > > I for one would buy ringside tickets to watch this apocalyptic battle > between these arch nemeses... And Bill Gates, the ringmaster, "BSD in the > right corner, the GPL in the left. Let's get ready to RUUMMMBLE" And then both GPL and BSD go for the ringmaster's throat. -- Yes, I know my enemies. They're the teachers who tell me to fight me. Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite. All of which are American dreams. - Rage Against The Machine PGP signature
Re: [freenet-chat] Re: [nylug-talk] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
> "a" == amadeus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: a> It would be fun to see M$ get its butt kicked by Unix but let's a> not obsess about M$ too much. That's excactly what Tokyo Rose a> wants. Tokyo Rose was set up: http://www.earthstation1.com/Tokyo_Rose.html ~Mr. Bad -- ~ Mr. Bad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Pigdog Journal | http://pigdog.org/ "Your description of coffee is how you interpret Sex." -- "Personality Quiz" chain letter ~ ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
[freenet-chat] Re: [nylug-talk] The End Game From Microsoft. Really.
It would be fun to see M$ get its butt kicked by Unix but let's not obsess about M$ too much. That's excactly what Tokyo Rose wants. [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Blake S." wrote: > > > The end game is upon us. The apolitical BSD license is now being pitted > > > directly against the GPL license, by M$ itself. > > I for one would buy ringside tickets to watch this apocalyptic battle > between these arch nemeses... And Bill Gates, the ringmaster, "BSD in the > right corner, the GPL in the left. Let's get ready to RUUMMMBLE" ___ Chat mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.freenetproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chat
