RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Title: Message Dale, As always, you've got great information. Just for the sake of comparison, is there any data on how many cfm's some of the different GM mechanical fansgive? I've been thinking of going with electric fans for some time because the ragtop can't idle for too long w/o getting hot I'd like to change that. I would need to go w/ dual fans to get away from the water pump pulley.Running a BBC a long water pump I don't have a lot of clearance to spare. Dean Vandergriff '65 ragtop '65 hardtop -Original Message-From: Dale McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:42 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed Bill, I agree that a single 16" Spal fan would probably be more than up to the cooling task with the PRC radiator. The advantage to the single fan is the motor is only 3.39" deep where the dual 11" are 4.25". Disadvantage is the motor is in the center (in line with the water pump pulley) as opposed to being offset from center. Another option would be to mount a pair of 10" fans individually. Each are 10.6" wide (21.2" total), 11.26" high on the mounting hole centerlines, and the fan motor is 3.7" deep. A single is rated at 1070cfm so that would still give 2140cfm total and would give offset motors if clearance is a problem. If anyone is interested, I have Spal spec sheets for 9", 10", 11", 12", 13", 14", and 16" fans in Adobe .PDF format and are downloadable from the Spal web site (http://www.spal-usa.com/). I'd be happy toemailoffline toanyone who wants a particular size or sizes. File sizes are: 9" = 84Kb 10" = 472kb 11" = 179Kb 12" = 213Kb 13"= 164Kb 14" = 232Kb 16" = 250kb Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles You haven't said what climate you're in, but my guessis thatthe 2360 CFM 16" Spalis more thanenough, especially with a high performance water pump. If not, you probably have another problem. Enjoy, Bill BruynGilbert, AZ USA
RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Title: Message Dean, I do remember seeing an article in the last year or so in some car rag comapring the two but I think more about horsepower loss, wasn't as much as electric fan makers lead us to believe, but I don't ever remember seeing anything on the cfm rating of clutch or mechanical fans. It would be interesting to have that information though. Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dean VandergriffSent: Friday, January 31, 2003 9:13 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed Dale, As always, you've got great information. Just for the sake of comparison, is there any data on how many cfm's some of the different GM mechanical fansgive? I've been thinking of going with electric fans for some time because the ragtop can't idle for too long w/o getting hot I'd like to change that. I would need to go w/ dual fans to get away from the water pump pulley.Running a BBC a long water pump I don't have a lot of clearance to spare. Dean Vandergriff '65 ragtop '65 hardtop -Original Message-From: Dale McIntosh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 5:42 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed Bill, I agree that a single 16" Spal fan would probably be more than up to the cooling task with the PRC radiator. The advantage to the single fan is the motor is only 3.39" deep where the dual 11" are 4.25". Disadvantage is the motor is in the center (in line with the water pump pulley) as opposed to being offset from center. Another option would be to mount a pair of 10" fans individually. Each are 10.6" wide (21.2" total), 11.26" high on the mounting hole centerlines, and the fan motor is 3.7" deep. A single is rated at 1070cfm so that would still give 2140cfm total and would give offset motors if clearance is a problem. If anyone is interested, I have Spal spec sheets for 9", 10", 11", 12", 13", 14", and 16" fans in Adobe .PDF format and are downloadable from the Spal web site (http://www.spal-usa.com/). I'd be happy toemailoffline toanyone who wants a particular size or sizes. File sizes are: 9" = 84Kb 10" = 472kb 11" = 179Kb 12" = 213Kb 13"= 164Kb 14" = 232Kb 16" = 250kb Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles You haven't said what climate you're in, but my guessis thatthe 2360 CFM 16" Spalis more thanenough, especially with a high performance water pump. If not, you probably have another problem. Enjoy, Bill BruynGilbert, AZ USA
RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Title: Message I know what you mean about clearance. After installing my PRC radiator, it's really tight now (http://www.dalesplace.com/images/chevelle/p001476.jpg) with the long pump! Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles Running a BBC a long water pump I don't have a lot of clearance to spare. Dean Vandergriff '65 ragtop '65 hardtop
Re: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
One question I have is, do you gain HP by using an
electric fan. I have always heard that you do, if so how much. I'm running a 396
PS,PDB,AC, 400auto in my 67SS
Tom Kosty, Denver
- Original Message -
From:
Bill Bruyn
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 2:37
PM
Subject: Re: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan
set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Well,it
wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, nor will it be the last. Still,
I don't think I am in this case. As Imentioned in my first reply, I have just gone
through this. On a SBC67 Malibu.With a PRC aluminum
crossflow. Including an AT cooler. With plans for an electric
fan. I did my homework before I ordered my parts, just as you are doing
now. In fact, Dale was kind enough to reply offline to a post of mine
regarding the radiator. BTW, thanks again to Dale for that.
If you're interested,
here's what I learned. The overall width of the radiator (26" in your
case, if I'm not mistaken) includes the tanks, which are installed on the
sides of a crossflow radiator like the one you say you're looking at.
The width of the core on a 26" radiator is 22.5". The dual 11" Spals are
23.46" wide, as Dale points out in hisreplybelow. You cannot
mount those fans on that radiator because of interference from the tanks on
either side. Go ahead and ask PRC to build you one like that and let us
know what they say. Again, you'd need a 31" radiator with a 27.5" core
to mount those - andthat's not going to fit in your 67
Malibu.
You indicated that
you're still confused on whether you should go with an electric or mechanical
fan, though you didn't say specifically what confused you.Again,
the mechanical fan will never outperform a quality electric fan at low RPMs,
but the mechanical setupworks for a lot of people.If it
works for you, go for it. Be advised that although PRC will provide you
with the materials, you'll need to fabricate your own mounts forthe
shroud. And the fan may be too far away from the radiator to work
effectively anyway, as you could end up with too much space betweenthe
fan and radiator afterremovingtheshroud extension (assuming
yours is equipped with one.) IMO, the only reasons to go with a
mechanical fan are 1) cost, and 2)wiring / increased current flow.
Some will argue that the mechanical fan is more reliable, but I don't
necessarily agree with that.
WRT the setup of your
electric fan, you could wire it to be switched on and off manually, to run all
the time, or to run only in a given temperature range. Engine RPM itself
has nothing to do with it. I'm going with a 185* - 200*
sensor.
You haven't said what
climate you're in, but my guessis thatthe 2360 CFM 16"
Spalis more thanenough, especially with a high performance water
pump. If not, you probably have another problem.
Enjoy,
Bill
BruynGilbert, AZ USA
1967 Malibu daily
driver.030 over 327; 750 cfm Q-Jet; Performer RPM; GM HEI; TH-2004R, 2200
stall; 10 bolt open 3.08
- Original Message -
From:
Ken's Email
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:24
AM
Subject: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan
set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Bill:
I think, respectfully, you may be off in your assumptions. I am looking
at a PRC aluminum radiator set up. Now, I can go with either a clutch set up
or have a dual Spal electric fan set up. The dilemma is that I need
information prior to moving forward. Why ? If I order the PRC radiator
and go with electrical fan set up, I can order the radiator made with an
internal automatic trans cooler, and the Spal Electric fans will be attached
to the radiator by PRC, along with built in shrouds. So, it will be a custom
made set up. And, it will fit and work.
Now, I have had a PRC aluminum radiator made last summer for my 67
Chevelle SS. I went with a clutch fan set up since I wanted the 67 SS to
have an original look since it is a numbers matching vehicle. I painted the
rails radiator black to have it look original. The PRC radiator keeps the
temps much lower. I kept the old radiator for resale if I ever sell the
Chevelle.
In contrast, I am not concerned with the 67 Chevelle Malibu being
original looking since it has a 383 stroker and other mods. So, I am asking
inputs on whether a fan set up vs. clutch fan set up is the way to go.
My only question is on the set up. I have talked with others who advise
that the electric fans will work at idle and kick off at cruise speeds when
the temperature comes down. Therefore, the two electric fans would be
working at idle and probably have
RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Title: Message My only experience is on my Corvette. I had a flex fan on it and no shroud. Corvette shrouds are even more expensive than for Chevelles, so I decided to try an electric fan first. I bought a Flex-a-lite Black Magic fan (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=216) for the Corvette. This fan has an adjustable thermostat, AC relay, moves 2,800 CFM,and it measures 18 in. x 16 1/8 in. x 4 in. My limited experience (before the engine blew from non-heat related issues) was just fine. The 327 ran about 350 HP, and I was happy with the solution. I hope that it will still work fine with my ~450HP replacement motor... Brad Waller ([EMAIL PROTECTED])'66Corvette | 327/dead | 4-speed | Wilwood Brakes | 245/45/16 BFGs'67 Chevelle| ex-SS396 | 355/700R4 | '79 F-Body Brakes -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Ken's EmailSent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:24 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed Bill: I think, respectfully, you may be off in your assumptions. I am looking at a PRC aluminum radiator set up. Now, I can go with either a clutch set up or have a dual Spal electric fan set up. The dilemma is that I need information prior to moving forward. Why ? If I order the PRC radiator and go with electrical fan set up, I can order the radiator made with an internal automatic trans cooler, and the Spal Electric fans will be attached to the radiator by PRC, along with built in shrouds. So, it will be a custom made set up. And, it will fit and work. Now, I have had a PRC aluminum radiator made last summer for my 67 Chevelle SS. I went with a clutch fan set up since I wanted the 67 SS to have an original look since it is a numbers matching vehicle. I painted the rails radiator black to have it look original. The PRC radiator keeps the temps much lower. I kept the old radiator for resale if I ever sell the Chevelle. In contrast, I am not concerned with the 67 Chevelle Malibu being original looking since it has a 383 stroker and other mods. So, I am asking inputs on whether a fan set up vs. clutch fan set up is the way to go. My only question is on the set up. I have talked with others who advise that the electric fans will work at idle and kick off at cruise speeds when the temperature comes down. Therefore, the two electric fans would be working at idle and probably have enough CFMs to cool at idle. I have already decided to upgrade the alternator to either 100 or 138 amps. Again, I need other comments from Chevelle or other car owners who have gone with the electric fan set up. Are you happy or wish you did not go to this set up and stayed with the traditional clutch fan or flex fan/shroud set up. Thanks again, Ken McDee Dale McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill, Looking at the dual 11" Spal fan spec sheet and it has the overall width of the unit at 23.46" and the mounting holes are inside that dimension. Is there something missing from their tech drawings that would account for the extra 7.5" you mention? Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bill BruynSent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [Chevelle-List] Yet another question: Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up I'm going through this right now on my 67. Here's what I decided. A qualityelectric fanwill not be outperformed by any mechanical fan atidle / low RPMs, and that's where we run into trouble, in my experience.The Spals are good units, but I don't think that dual 11" setup is going to work for you -you need a 31 inch radiator in order to mount it. I'm going with a single 16" puller, myself. You may need to upgrade electrical components. I intend to do so anyway, and am still researching... Enjoy, Bill - Original Message - From: Ken's Email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:32 AM Subject: [Chevelle-List] Yet another question: Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up Regarding my 67 Chevelle Malibu, I am deciding to upgrade the radiator to a crossflow aluminum radiator. I can also go with either the traditional clutch fan set up or have two spall 11 inch fans incorporated into the radiator (along with a built in trans cooler). My question is what set up do you
[Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Bill: I think, respectfully, you may be off in your assumptions. I am looking at a PRC aluminum radiator set up. Now, I can go with either a clutch set up or have a dual Spal electric fan set up. The dilemma is that I need information prior to moving forward. Why ? If I order the PRC radiator and go with electrical fan set up, I can order the radiator made with an internal automatic trans cooler, and the Spal Electric fans will be attached to the radiator by PRC, along with built in shrouds. So, it will be a custom made set up. And, it will fit and work. Now, I have had a PRC aluminum radiator made last summer for my 67 Chevelle SS. I went with a clutch fan set up since I wanted the 67 SS to have an original look since it is a numbers matching vehicle. I painted the rails radiator black to have it look original. The PRC radiator keeps the temps much lower. I kept the old radiator for resale if I ever sell the Chevelle. In contrast, I am not concerned with the 67 Chevelle Malibu being original looking since it has a 383 stroker and other mods. So, I am asking inputs on whether a fan set up vs. clutch fan set up is the way to go. My only question is on the set up. I have talked with others who advise that the electric fans will work at idle and kick off at cruise speeds when the temperature comes down. Therefore, the two electric fans would be working at idle and probably have enough CFMs to cool at idle. I have already decided to upgrade the alternator to either 100 or 138 amps. Again, I need other comments from Chevelle or other car owners who have gone with the electric fan set up. Are you happy or wish you did not go to this set up and stayed with the traditional clutch fan or flex fan/shroud set up. Thanks again, Ken McDee Dale McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill, Looking at the dual 11" Spal fan spec sheet and it has the overall width of the unit at 23.46" and the mounting holes are inside that dimension. Is there something missing from their tech drawings that would account for the extra 7.5" you mention? Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Bill BruynSent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 1:04 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [Chevelle-List] Yet another question: Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up I'm going through this right now on my 67. Here's what I decided. A qualityelectric fanwill not be outperformed by any mechanical fan atidle / low RPMs, and that's where we run into trouble, in my experience.The Spals are good units, but I don't think that dual 11" setup is going to work for you -you need a 31 inch radiator in order to mount it. I'm going with a single 16" puller, myself. You may need to upgrade electrical components. I intend to do so anyway, and am still researching... Enjoy, Bill - Original Message - From: Ken's Email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:32 AM Subject: [Chevelle-List] Yet another question: Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up Regarding my 67 Chevelle Malibu, I am deciding to upgrade the radiator to a crossflow aluminum radiator. I can also go with either the traditional clutch fan set up or have two spall 11 inch fans incorporated into the radiator (along with a built in trans cooler). My question is what set up do you prefer, i.e., the clutch fan set up or the electric fan set up. And, have you noticed most modern cars have gone electric ? Your opinions sought. Thanks, Ken McDee P.S. Car will not be raced. A cruiser/driver. Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up nowDo you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
Re: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Well,it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong, nor will it be the last. Still, I don't think I am in this case. As Imentioned in my first reply, I have just gone through this. On a SBC67 Malibu.With a PRC aluminum crossflow. Including an AT cooler. With plans for an electric fan. I did my homework before I ordered my parts, just as you are doing now. In fact, Dale was kind enough to reply offline to a post of mine regarding the radiator. BTW, thanks again to Dale for that. If you're interested, here's what I learned. The overall width of the radiator (26" in your case, if I'm not mistaken) includes the tanks, which are installed on the sides of a crossflow radiator like the one you say you're looking at. The width of the core on a 26" radiator is 22.5". The dual 11" Spals are 23.46" wide, as Dale points out in hisreplybelow. You cannot mount those fans on that radiator because of interference from the tanks on either side. Go ahead and ask PRC to build you one like that and let us know what they say. Again, you'd need a 31" radiator with a 27.5" core to mount those - andthat's not going to fit in your 67 Malibu. You indicated that you're still confused on whether you should go with an electric or mechanical fan, though you didn't say specifically what confused you.Again, the mechanical fan will never outperform a quality electric fan at low RPMs, but the mechanical setupworks for a lot of people.If it works for you, go for it. Be advised that although PRC will provide you with the materials, you'll need to fabricate your own mounts forthe shroud. And the fan may be too far away from the radiator to work effectively anyway, as you could end up with too much space betweenthe fan and radiator afterremovingtheshroud extension (assuming yours is equipped with one.) IMO, the only reasons to go with a mechanical fan are 1) cost, and 2)wiring / increased current flow. Some will argue that the mechanical fan is more reliable, but I don't necessarily agree with that. WRT the setup of your electric fan, you could wire it to be switched on and off manually, to run all the time, or to run only in a given temperature range. Engine RPM itself has nothing to do with it. I'm going with a 185* - 200* sensor. You haven't said what climate you're in, but my guessis thatthe 2360 CFM 16" Spalis more thanenough, especially with a high performance water pump. If not, you probably have another problem. Enjoy, Bill BruynGilbert, AZ USA 1967 Malibu daily driver.030 over 327; 750 cfm Q-Jet; Performer RPM; GM HEI; TH-2004R, 2200 stall; 10 bolt open 3.08 - Original Message - From: Ken's Email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 7:24 AM Subject: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed Bill: I think, respectfully, you may be off in your assumptions. I am looking at a PRC aluminum radiator set up. Now, I can go with either a clutch set up or have a dual Spal electric fan set up. The dilemma is that I need information prior to moving forward. Why ? If I order the PRC radiator and go with electrical fan set up, I can order the radiator made with an internal automatic trans cooler, and the Spal Electric fans will be attached to the radiator by PRC, along with built in shrouds. So, it will be a custom made set up. And, it will fit and work. Now, I have had a PRC aluminum radiator made last summer for my 67 Chevelle SS. I went with a clutch fan set up since I wanted the 67 SS to have an original look since it is a numbers matching vehicle. I painted the rails radiator black to have it look original. The PRC radiator keeps the temps much lower. I kept the old radiator for resale if I ever sell the Chevelle. In contrast, I am not concerned with the 67 Chevelle Malibu being original looking since it has a 383 stroker and other mods. So, I am asking inputs on whether a fan set up vs. clutch fan set up is the way to go. My only question is on the set up. I have talked with others who advise that the electric fans will work at idle and kick off at cruise speeds when the temperature comes down. Therefore, the two electric fans would be working at idle and probably have enough CFMs to cool at idle. I have already decided to upgrade the alternator to either 100 or 138 amps. Again, I need other comments from Chevelle or other car owners who have gone with the electric fan set up. Are you happy or wish you did not go to this set up and stayed with the traditional clutch fan or flex fan/shroud set up. Thanks again, Ken McDee Dale McIntosh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill, Looking at the dual 11" Spal fan spec sheet and it has the overall width of the unit at 23.46" and the mounting holes are inside that dim
RE: [Chevelle-List] Electric Fan set up versus Clutch Fan set up=response to Bill and more input needed
Title: Message Bill, I agree that a single 16" Spal fan would probably be more than up to the cooling task with the PRC radiator. The advantage to the single fan is the motor is only 3.39" deep where the dual 11" are 4.25". Disadvantage is the motor is in the center (in line with the water pump pulley) as opposed to being offset from center. Another option would be to mount a pair of 10" fans individually. Each are 10.6" wide (21.2" total), 11.26" high on the mounting hole centerlines, and the fan motor is 3.7" deep. A single is rated at 1070cfm so that would still give 2140cfm total and would give offset motors if clearance is a problem. If anyone is interested, I have Spal spec sheets for 9", 10", 11", 12", 13", 14", and 16" fans in Adobe .PDF format and are downloadable from the Spal web site (http://www.spal-usa.com/). I'd be happy toemailoffline toanyone who wants a particular size or sizes. File sizes are: 9" = 84Kb 10" = 472kb 11" = 179Kb 12" = 213Kb 13"= 164Kb 14" = 232Kb 16" = 250kb Dale McIntosh TC Gold #92/ACES #1709 67SS/67 Elky Dales Place Team 67 Midwest Chevelles You haven't said what climate you're in, but my guessis thatthe 2360 CFM 16" Spalis more thanenough, especially with a high performance water pump. If not, you probably have another problem. Enjoy, Bill BruynGilbert, AZ USA
