Re: [Chicken-users] Chicken Logo

[Harri Haataja]

On 19/04/2008, Joshua Griffith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks, I'm glad the products of procrastination aren't for naught!  I did
> one more side version that's a bit more web 2.0 (possibly useful as a
> footer):
> http://www.joshuagriffith.com/chicken/logo/chicken-glass-side-lg.png
>  I'll attempt to upload the pngs to the wiki.  If you want to fool around
> the source ai (CS3) or svg, I'll keep them on my site.

The format "preferred for editing" might be nice. Besides, svg can be
viewed in many contexts these days. I wonder if that web 2.0 icon
would scale down neatly into a default.ico for related webpages or
blogs.

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Re: [Chicken-users] Chicken Logo

[Harri Haataja]

On 19/04/2008, Leonardo Valeri Manera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 19/04/2008, Joshua Griffith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I've been playing around with the Chicken logo.  Since it currently looks
>  > like it consists of inked strokes, I took the metaphor a little further:
>  >  http://www.joshuagriffith.com/chicken/logo/

>  Nice :D

Very!

I can't help thinking that the lambda is pretty clear and the top
looks like a tilde, but the back.. a quarter note pause?

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Re: [Chicken-users] Syntax of case expressions

[Harri Haataja]

On 03/03/2008, Alaric Snell-Pym <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  On 3 Mar 2008, at 12:33 pm, Tobia Conforto wrote:

>  Here is a typical Unlambda program:
>  `r```.H.e.l.l.o. .w.o.r.l.di

Typical because it's very nearly the only one commonly seen? :)

> > A shortest code programming contest, on the other hand...
>  If scored on shortness and clarity - let's call the combination
>  "conciseness" - I'm all up for that :-)

Do we start with APL or?

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Re: [Chicken-users] Debian packages for some eggs now available

[Harri Haataja]

On 13/02/2008, Ivan Raikov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Well, the Debian egg packages can be easily converted to RPM by the
> alien program, but there might be slight differences in how each RPM
> distribution does its library version numbering. E.g. the estraier egg
> depends on libestraier8 package in Debian, but that could be named
> something completely different in RedHat, Suse and so on. The main
> Chicken packages and the eggs that do not have dependencies external
> to Chicken can be easily converted to and installed as RPMs, though.


It's been a while since I was last involved with rpm, but even then it
was certainly worth it making different spec files (and/or taking care
you don't use the wrong ones). It's not just the dependencies and
paths (which obviously matter) but there's also different sets of spec
macros and other things. They aren't really hard to write, though.

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Re: [Chicken-users] Egg Atom/RSS feed.

[Harri Haataja]

On 16/02/2008, Leonardo Valeri Manera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 15 Feb 2008 18:08:41 -0200, Mario Domenech Goulart
> > Nah, Arto has solved our problem long ago! :-)
> > http://trac.callcc.org/log/?limit=100&mode=stop_on_copy&format=rss
> > Substitute  by the name of the egg you want the RSS for.
> I was actually thinking of an egg-release feed - those of us who
> aren't developers just get confombulated by all the rest of the stuff

How about a feed with only brand new eggs in and no updates?

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Re: [Chicken-users] Friendlier Chicken for Win32

[Harri Haataja]

On 19/12/2007, Alex Sandro Queiroz e Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Based on my previous (program-filename) patch, I have created a
> chicken dist for win32 that can be dropped anywhere. csc automatically
> finds the Chicken compiler, includes and libs. This package may make the
> life of first-time Chicken users easier. It is in [1].
>
> [1] - http://www.ventonegro.org/chicken/

Sounds nice. This still requires a gcc somewhere?

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Re: [Chicken-users] Slow unix-sockets?

[Harri Haataja]

On 20/09/2007, Peter Busser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it possible that writing to/reading from UNIX domain sockets using the
> unix-sockets egg is very very slow?
>
> When I connect the two programs using a normal UNIX pipe, then it takes
> less than 0.6 seconds for a >100k message. But it takes more than 4
> seconds when I do the same over a UNIX domain socket. That is a difference
> of a factor 8 or so. It runs on a 1G Pentium III machine. Has anyone of
> you experienced this too?

I wonder if you could give a small test program people could try in
different environments?

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Re: [Chicken-users] synonyms for "module" sought

[Harri Haataja]

On 09/09/2007, Graham Fawcett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/8/07, Terrence Brannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 9/7/07, Peter Bex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > How about 'yolk'?  It's what eggs are made of/what's inside eggs.
> > yes, I think yolk is an awesome name.

Sure. If it's going to be chicken-specific.

Before I forget, I'll mention a name that probably won't fit this;
something should be called the walrus (egg manual system?) :)

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Re: [Chicken-users] confirmed builds

[Harri Haataja]

On 14/09/2007, felix winkelmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 9/13/07, Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 9/13/07, felix winkelmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > http://chicken.wiki.br/portability
> > > Please consider contributing more information to this page!
> > I added ARM.

I added Solaris. (Hi, #chicken :)

> > Maybe we should add a column for last version of Chicken which has
> > been tested on that platform.
> Good point.

Perhaps also a brief comments column or something or should this list
only contain flawless builds?

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Re: [Chicken-users] wxWidgets

[Harri Haataja]

On 09/07/07, Adhi Hargo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well then, either we focus on wxWidgets, or FLTK (!).
> I don't mind the latter, IMHO its interface is quite
> clean and simple, a total opposite to wxWidgets albeit
> somewhat limiting usage. Never encounter a buggy FLTK
> app either (lack of exposure?).

I have. Mainly my own, when I tried it :-D

But seriously, I've seen at least one box (or X installation) where
FLTK, and only FLTK would have garbled fonts. It seemed that they were
2px high or something. FLTK is very appealing in some ways, though.

wx I recall as something that tries hard to advertise as cross
platform and native look and fails miserably in the latter. Kind of
like all the Java toolkits. But that's old memory and I don't remember
using any wx apps. I take that as a sign personally, but of course
that means nothing for anyone else's judgement. QT is still a creeping
horror.

Enough opinionated handwaving, I hope :)

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Re: [Chicken-users] Scheme-themed cloth badges?

[Harri Haataja]

On 27/07/07, Alaric Snell-Pym <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 27 Jul 2007, at 6:55 am, felix winkelmann wrote:
> > On 7/26/07, John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> felix winkelmann scripsit:
>  Just out of interest, is anybody interested in cloth badges with a
>  lambda in parens?

Certainly, if the price and payment (shipping) methods fit, I could take a few.

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Re: [Chicken-users] a file system using Chicken

[Harri Haataja]

On 07/06/07, Ivan Raikov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  Okay, that's reasonable. I was under the impression that the fuse
API is relatively fixed, now that it has been included in the Linux
kernel, and Debian stable actually includes a somewhat recent version
(2.5.something, I think),


There should just be an egg for writing 9P servers instead :^)

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Re: [Chicken-users] Re: Choosing chicken

[Harri Haataja]

On 03/06/07, Brandon Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 6/2/07, Jens Axel Søgaard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> PLT has an automated build system that each night builds what is in
> the current SVN. You can download these builds from this page:
>  
> Build errors are therefore caught *very* quickly.
Ouch well then they're certainly ahead in that respect.  Nightly
builds and automated testing systems are only wish list for Chicken.
CMake has the infrastructure to do all of that elegantly, but nobody
has the inclination to actually implement it.  I've had it as a task
in our bug tracker for awhile, but recently I abdicated responsibility
for it, as it's a huge task and I must look to more $ things right
now.


Is there anything like a build farm available or are the chicken
builds just done on some developers' machinery? I might actually be
interested in this, but don't know what I could deliver. This corner
looks like another spot where I might be able to attack chicken :)

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Re: [Chicken-users] comparison of Chicken and Bigloo?

[Harri Haataja]

On 31/03/07, Alex Queiroz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On 3/30/07, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  - Bigloo provides binaries for Fedora, Debian, and MS Visual Studio
> platforms.  Chicken does not, you have to build from source.

 Both are in Debian, although Chichen is still at 2.5.


http://otherdistro.adamantix.org/ also has packages for Debian and
Ubuntu to some extent.
And of course there's Adamantix itself.

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Re: [Chicken-users] documentation browser

[Harri Haataja]

On 24/01/07, Robin Lee Powell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 07:10:23AM +0100, felix winkelmann wrote:
> The web-based chicken documentation browser is hereby announced:
> http://callcc.org
> Many thanks to Toby Butzon for setting this up! The index files
> used for searching the docs need some work (all my fault), but I
> already find this highly useful.

As someone who can't even remember what the order of the arguments
to map is, this makes me *very* happy!  Thank you!

I hope that soon it'll be able to drill into the SRFI docs.


For general scheme api searches, I hope people know about
http://www.shiro.dreamhost.com/scheme/wiliki/schemexref.cgi

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Re: [Chicken-users] RedHat and Debian packages

[Harri Haataja]

On 15/01/07, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

The fragmentation in the Linux world is ridiculous.  I'm on my 4th OS
installation attempt in 3 weeks, trying to get either dual boot or
triple boot systems going, because of RedHat vs. Debian issues.  All the
Cell SDK stuff is RPM based, and it hadn't dawned on me that I simply
couldn't use Debian.


Have you looked at alien?
http://packages.debian.org/alien

Then there's chroots, user mode kernels, emulators, Xen etc. These can
come handy.


I hope CMake / CPack starts performing some miracles sometime, because
otherwise, I couldn't possibly take Linux packaging seriously.  It's way
too much of a mess.


I believe the packaging should be (mostly) left to the actual
projects' packagers. They should have all the knowledge, tools
(including bug tracking) and build farms etc for that.

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Re: [Chicken-users] RedHat and Debian packages

[Harri Haataja]

On 14/01/07, Peter Busser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Integrating these packages in Debian means that only Debian users
> >benefit from this effort. My idea is to support as many distributions as
> >possible, not only Debian. That way this effort benefits users of
> >Adamantix,
> >Ubuntu, Progeny, Knoppix, etc., etc. as well, not just users of Debian. And
> >it has the following advantages for Chicken users:
>
> But sadly many of those may have a completely different (and possibly
> ancient) version in themselves that the installer and possibly the
> packager has to work around or clash with.

Really, it is much simpler than you are suggesting. I will take
Adamantix source packages and recompile them to binary packages for Debian
Sarge, Debian Etch, Ubuntu Edgy, etc. That means that it will Just Work
. If you have installed an old version of Chicken in Debian Sarge, then
it will be replaced by the newer version from the Sarge repository on the
Adamantix site. And you will have access to all the other packages as
well.


Even if there's a package in Debian that depends (and is built
against) their chicken and it expects something else (abi
compatibility) than what the (better :) Adamantix package provides?
(As an example. There may be more oddities.)
And one or more of those systems may decide to go different ways with
some issues. The Adamantix repos will have to sort of keep up with
each.

For just installing chicken, tweaking the version numbers should be enugh, true.


All you have to do is to add another line to /etc/apt/sources.list and then
apt-get update. That's all there is to it! APT is really good at handling
multiple repositories.


Yes. For example backports works quite neatly. Winehq a bit less so.


> I agree (still) that the effort in adamantix is excellent. It would be
> great if that could be the upstream or a complete sync into all the
> mentioned distros' package collections.
That would be great yes. If you know people who are willing to upload
the stuff to DEB based distributions, then please let me know. I would
be happy to assist them when I'm ready.


Sadly, I don't. If I was a packager/developer for one of those, I'd be
happy to go for it. Now, the current maintainers should probably be
contacted.

...

Great! In that case we both want the same thing.

I think we've been in agreement about this before, here or freenode or
somewhere :)

I'm still waiting for a new release of Debian before I start
rearranging my current computers as I'd want to do one clean stable
install and it seems pointless to install the soon-to-be-old version
now if there's a new one coming. I might try the rc's in the meantime.
After that, I'll hopefully get to try these things for real again.

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Re: [Chicken-users] RedHat and Debian packages

[Harri Haataja]

On 12/01/07, Peter Busser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Thu, Jan 11, 2007 at 12:56:56PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> Getting a friendly maintainer on the "inside" (a Debian developer, for
> example) is probably a more reliable approach.

If Debian or any other distribution likes to use the Adamantix packages,
then that is fine of course. It is after all free software.

Integrating these packages in Debian means that only Debian users
benefit from this effort. My idea is to support as many distributions as
possible, not only Debian. That way this effort benefits users of Adamantix,
Ubuntu, Progeny, Knoppix, etc., etc. as well, not just users of Debian. And
it has the following advantages for Chicken users:


But sadly many of those may have a completely different (and possibly
ancient) version in themselves that the installer and possibly the
packager has to work around or clash with.
I agree (still) that the effort in adamantix is excellent. It would be
great if that could be the upstream or a complete sync into all the
mentioned distros' package collections.


This effort makes it easier and more reliable to:



  - To distribute Chicken applications (the same infrastructure can be
used).

!

This has really been my point from the start. Being able to make
something depend on chicken and suitable eggs in much the same way as
you can do on so many other language runtimes. You can do ad hoc
bundling (tarballs, binary packages without a clean build), but can
not really fit them into strongly managed systems.

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Re: [Chicken-users] 256th egg: sqlora by Graham Fawcett

[Harri Haataja]

On 11/01/07, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Graham Fawcett wrote:
> On 1/10/07, Peter Busser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> What about this: A random selected person of the group of people who
>> added an egg during 3 months. Or 4 months or whatever period of time.
>> That means that everyone who adds an egg has a chance to get one.
> +1.
Yep, I was going to suggest "286" as a homage to Intel crapola, but I'm
not sure why they're worthy of the honor, and this is better.


You could instead skip that one. Make the *86 the missing 13th floor type thing.

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Re: [Chicken-users] RedHat and Debian packages

[Harri Haataja]

On 07/01/07, Peter Busser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Sat, Jan 06, 2007 at 12:52:11PM +0100, Peter Bex wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 05, 2007 at 01:15:08PM -0800, Brandon J. Van Every wrote:
> > But the clear disadvantage is it's only applicable to Debian systems.
> > Still, I'll wager that nobody has a problem with what you're up to!
> If you would like a completely portable packaging system, you could have
> a look at pkgsrc (www.pkgsrc.org).

All the package systems I know so far are portable. I think it is better
to use the native packaging system. For a number of BSD systems that may
be pkgsrc, for many Linux systems that is for instance DEB or RPM.
Mixing different packaging systems is a very bad idea IMHO.


For anything that doesn't sit very very quietly in some corner, yes.
One of the biggest problems is that they don't know about each others'
dependencies etc. Of course you'll have some of the same problem doing
"make install". As long as the system layouts remain what they are
today, I don't think that problem is going to be solved.

Pretty much all foss systems, package collections like pkgsrc,
sunfreeware etc and "vendors" have their own internally coherent
packaging efforts and collections. I think it would be best to let
(and help!) each of them do their own arrangements. In some cases you
can make repositories outside the vendor's and add them to something
like apt. If they're in sync to the right versions it might even work.
Getting a friendly maintainer on the "inside" (a Debian developer, for
example) is probably a more reliable approach.

The Adamantix effort looks fine and is very far. It would be nice to
integrate this and Debian. I'm not a Debian developer and there is
some old package already there. If it wasn't for all this, I might
even volunteer some effort for this task.

Doesn't Debian (and probably others) also provide build farms for
their own packages? Those  would probably also greatly help in
building for different available versions.

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Re: [Chicken-users] bugtracking and open source labor

[Harri Haataja]

On 11/12/06, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I would like to see it integrated with Darcs.  Part of what needs to
happen in the Chicken community, is more people need to have proper
Darcs permissions.  So that they can actually set about fixing bugs.
Even if they need to ask questions before knowing what to change, the
process is a lot faster if people aren't waiting on, say, Felix to
cut-n-paste e-mails.

Getting more people using Darcs, and actually modifying the source pool
proper, may be the low hanging fruit as far as handling the labor
issues.  As opposed to the more exotic notification scheme I laid out,
which I still think is a good idea.


I like darcs, too. Some clear instructions on where to send patches
(possibly with darcs directly) would also be nice. I don't know if an
actual bug tracker is needed, but some way to know about things that
need work or where changes would be welcome would probably be nice.

Naturally I'd also like strong (Debian) packages to be buildable from
the snapshots so you can do install and version/dep tracking dances
that way. There's no system I'd subject to make install. (Though at
the moment there's very little of any system in my disposal.)

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Re: [Chicken-users] Noob Question about the Chicken Users List

[Harri Haataja]

On 18/08/06, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 Sean (G) wrote:
 As far as I know I am a registered Chicken user - however (and I know I am
going to feel stupid for asking this) I can't seem to find a way of seeing
the current and up to date view of the list. I can only access the list via
the archives. When I log into the list with my password etc. I can only go
to a page that shows me the subscriber list. What am I missing?
 As far as I know, there is no current up-to-the-minute archive of
[Chicken-users] posts.  The archives lag slightly.  So, you would use your
mail program to read the up-to-the-minute stuff.

 Alternately there is the GMANE interface.
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.scheme.chicken  This is an
independent 3rd party that's tracking all of the Chicken posts.  GMANE does
it for all kinds of groups, and you can add mailing lists to GMANE if you
get permission from the mailing list owners.


GMANE also allows reading by NNTP (http://gmane.org/faq.php).

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Re: [Chicken-users] wiki spam

[Harri Haataja]

On 28 Aug 2006 13:52:20 -0300, Mario Domenech Goulart
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 17:27:10 +0200 Hans Bulfone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> it seems that some spammer has found the chicken wiki and has
> put a lot of "order cialis online" and other links on it :(

Thanks for notifying.  I think I could revert most os the vandalism
(at least searching for "cialis" doesn't return anything anymore).


Doesn't the wiki have RecentChanges (and perhaps email or rss to it)
so the more diligent wikignomes can see every edit and watch that
nothing odd gets in?
Reverts like that are supposed to be easy enough to combat vandalism
on their own in the classical wiki model. Robots of course tilt the
balance and then you'd need some kind of human authentication.

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thing with post formatting.


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Re: [Chicken-users] Chicken/CMake succeeds on Sparc Solaris 8

[Harri Haataja]

On 06/08/06, John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

This is using a 32-bit userland on a sun4u processor.  I didn't
test the numbers egg here, due to problems with GMP; I used the
schelog egg as a test instead.


Oh, there's a schelog egg! I hadn't noticed that. Cool.

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Re: [Chicken-users] Re: Documentation

[Harri Haataja]

On 06/08/06, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Harri Haataja wrote:
> On 29/05/06, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Dan wrote:
>> > Just a small observation -- the propensity for long,
>> > complicated URL's isn't a win. Typing the full
>> > www.call/cc.org is a pain;
>> > Maybe it's just me, but I'd love shorter, memorable
>> > URL's.


c28n.org appears to be free :)


> your homepage or profile somewhere etc, have a
> personal wiki (more common these days, see http://pbwiki.com/ or use a
> service like tinyurl to create some nice TLA-length alias :)
A stretch, since I have none of these things.


You do have tinyurl. Someone else gave details, I think. But those
were just ways that others use. Of course you'll have to pick one you
dislike the least if you want to end up on the page.

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Re: [Chicken-users] Re: Documentation

[Harri Haataja]

On 29/05/06, Brandon J. Van Every <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dan wrote:
> Just a small observation -- the propensity for long,
> complicated URL's isn't a win. Typing the full
> www.call/cc.org is a pain;



> Maybe it's just me, but I'd love shorter, memorable
> URL's.

I do too, but the value isn't in personal use.  It's in chalkboards,
overhead projectors, and casual conversations, when you're trying to get
something to stick in a crowd's mind.  Actually
"call-with-current-continuation.org" is rather easy for a Functional
Programmer to remember... but most people don't know what FP is.


It does stick, indeed. Of course a few more remaining possibilities
are navigating to it via a few hops from some easy to remember wiki
(like http://community.schemewiki.org/ though that's not the shortest
name either), google, your homepage or profile somewhere etc, have a
personal wiki (more common these days, see http://pbwiki.com/ or use a
service like tinyurl to create some nice TLA-length alias :)

--
it's  a matter of balance, i find.  if you write the code without thinking
through the design you are doomed, except for very trivial tasks.  if you think
through the design, and think, and think, and never code then you may have had
fun but don't end up with a program.-- Bruce Ellis, on 9fans


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Re: [Chicken-users] egg upgrading

[Harri Haataja]

On 24/07/06, Zbigniew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Also note: when installing from disk, chicken-setup will not reorder
installation to satisfy dependencies.  Therefore, you should install,
for example, syntax-case and regex-case first, as they are required
for compilation of certain extensions.

...

Re-inventing/implementing package management again?

Of course there are systems without such, but one.. make it the..
worst problem with all these language implementation specific bloody
extension archive collection network planets is that they do that.
Badly. IMHO, of course.

I can only hope that any system that might be put in won't get in the
way of building real managed binaries easily.

--
it's  a matter of balance, i find.  if you write the code without thinking
through the design you are doomed, except for very trivial tasks.  if you think
through the design, and think, and think, and never code then you may have had
fun but don't end up with a program.-- Bruce Ellis, on 9fans


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Re: [Chicken-users] To whom it may concern: Working on TinT

[Harri Haataja]

On 14/02/06, Kon Lovett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am working on TinT (Tint is not Termite), a Chicken specific
> Termite workalike. Alike in the sense that is generally shares syntax
> & semantics, but I feel under no constraint to be 100% faithful. (How
> could I be, Termite is still evolving.)

I have no comment to offer besides that I've been looking for
something like this as well. For no great reason except interest.

--
All violence consists in some people forcing others, under threat of
suffering or death, to do what they do not want to do.  -- Leo Tolstoy.


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Re: [Chicken-users] Question

[Harri Haataja]

On 27/12/05, Raffael Cavallaro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Dec 25, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Benedikt Rosenau wrote:
>
> What made you try or choose Chicken in the first place?

In particular order:

1.  Availability in Debian (no other platforms at hand right now,
otherwise them)
1b. Seemingly unobtrusive runtime (in the above). Maybe.
2.  Availability of bindings and other features

These are certainly inviting. I haven't quite made up my mind if
there's too much CPAN-stink to eggs to avoid them. Still, they
certainly beat bigloo-lib and many others in availability.

--
All violence consists in some people forcing others, under threat of
suffering or death, to do what they do not want to do.  -- Leo Tolstoy.


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