[Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
Hi all, I've noticed that some of the wiki pages have an h2 title at the top, some don't. For the ones that have have a table of contents, some have an h2 above the toc, some have it below. I think pages look a bit odd if they have no title at the very top. Looking at the source for a few pages, I haven't seen any h1 tags anywhere. The [editing help](https://wiki.call-cc.org/edit-help) page says not to use = title, as h1's are reserved for use by the wiki itself. I think most pages would probably look best if there's always an h1 title at the top which is not part of the table of contents (if there is indeed a toc). Is the wiki indeed using h1's for anything? Does the wiki generate a portion of a page's title tag using the first h2 on the page? I think it would make sense for every page to have an h1 (= Page Title) at the top, which would not be part of a toc (if present), which would be rendered at the top of the page body (above the toc, if present), and which would be used to generate the first portion of the page's title. What do you think? Thanks, ---John ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:56:59PM -0400, John Gabriele wrote: Hi all, I've noticed that some of the wiki pages have an h2 title at the top, some don't. For the ones that have have a table of contents, some have an h2 above the toc, some have it below. Yeah, this is up to each individual author. I think pages look a bit odd if they have no title at the very top. Looking at the source for a few pages, I haven't seen any h1 tags anywhere. The [editing help](https://wiki.call-cc.org/edit-help) page says not to use = title, as h1's are reserved for use by the wiki itself. I think this is historical; svnwiki probably used to do this. However, the svnwiki-sxml parser used by qwiki only recognises == as section markers; a line starting with a single = is invalid syntax and rendered literally. I think most pages would probably look best if there's always an h1 title at the top which is not part of the table of contents (if there is indeed a toc). Is the wiki indeed using h1's for anything? A quick grep tells me it uses them on the search result page as a heading and for the this page does not exist yet heading when you try to open a page that doesn't exist. So it doesn't use them in front of user-generated content. Does the wiki generate a portion of a page's title tag using the first h2 on the page? It picks the very first section marker, whatever level it is. If none is found, it uses the filename. I think it would make sense for every page to have an h1 (= Page Title) at the top, which would not be part of a toc (if present), which would be rendered at the top of the page body (above the toc, if present), and which would be used to generate the first portion of the page's title. What do you think? I think that is ugly since it would repeat this title: == foo blabla gets rendered to h1foo/h1 h2foo/h2 Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music. -- Donald Knuth ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl wrote:
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:56:59PM -0400, John Gabriele wrote:
I think it would make sense for every page to have an h1 (= Page
Title) at the top, which would not be part of a toc (if present),
which would be rendered at the top of the page body (above the toc, if
present), and which would be used to generate the first portion of the
page's title. What do you think?
I think that is ugly since it would repeat this title:
== foo
blabla
gets rendered to
h1foo/h1
h2foo/h2
I don't understand what you mean. I'd expect this wiki markup:
= Title Goes Here
[[toc:]]
== Intro
Some content here.
to produce something like:
html
headtitleTitle Goes Here - The Chicken Scheme Wiki/title/head
body
h1Title Goes Here/h1
{ ... toc ...}
h2Intro/h2
pSome content here./p
/body
/html
Where the only duplication is Title Goes Here lands in the title
as well as in the h1, which I believe is as it should be.
---John
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Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John Gabriele jmg3...@gmail.com wrote:
{...}
I think it would make sense for every page to have an h1 (= Page
Title) at the top, which would not be part of a toc (if present),
which would be rendered at the top of the page body (above the toc, if
present), and which would be used to generate the first portion of the
page's title. What do you think?
Here's a good example issue: the eggs tutorial page
http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggs%20tutorial .
Currently, when I have that page open, it doesn't say anywhere that
it's the Eggs Tutorial page. My browser window title says
Introduction - The Chicken Scheme Wiki and my browser tab says
Introduction. Looking at the page, there's no indication to the
reader what page they're looking at unless they check the actual url.
I'd bet many pages start with an Introduction, Overview, or Getting
Started section.
I could add == Eggs Tutorial to the top of the eggs tutorial page
(above the `[[toc:]]`), and it would kinda' look right, except:
1. Eggs Tutorial would be at the same level (h2) as the other
sections, but it shouldn't be -- it's the title of the page, and
2. The ToC would list it as section 1, containing no content, followed
by section 2, Introduction.
which might be acceptable, and wouldn't require any work, but I don't
think it's optimal.
---John
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Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 01:42:51PM -0400, John Gabriele wrote:
I don't understand what you mean. I'd expect this wiki markup:
= Title Goes Here
[[toc:]]
== Intro
Some content here.
to produce something like:
html
headtitleTitle Goes Here - The Chicken Scheme Wiki/title/head
body
h1Title Goes Here/h1
{ ... toc ...}
h2Intro/h2
pSome content here./p
/body
/html
Where the only duplication is Title Goes Here lands in the title
as well as in the h1, which I believe is as it should be.
I obviously misunderstood what you meant, then :)
This wiki page syntax will work if you add one = in front of all your
items. The wiki page in your example doesn't work because svnwiki-sxml
does not allow section headings to start with one =.
Of course we could also raise all the levels so that the highest
level is h1. This would cause all the existing pages to get their
section depths decreased by one.
The main problem is that nobody marks up their wiki pages the way
you'd like. See my reply to your other mail.
Cheers,
Peter
--
http://sjamaan.ath.cx
--
The process of preparing programs for a digital computer
is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically
and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic
experience much like composing poetry or music.
-- Donald Knuth
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Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 02:29:13PM -0400, John Gabriele wrote:
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 12:56 PM, John Gabriele jmg3...@gmail.com wrote:
{...}
I think it would make sense for every page to have an h1 (= Page
Title) at the top, which would not be part of a toc (if present),
which would be rendered at the top of the page body (above the toc, if
present), and which would be used to generate the first portion of the
page's title. What do you think?
Here's a good example issue: the eggs tutorial page
http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggs%20tutorial .
Currently, when I have that page open, it doesn't say anywhere that
it's the Eggs Tutorial page. My browser window title says
Introduction - The Chicken Scheme Wiki and my browser tab says
Introduction. Looking at the page, there's no indication to the
reader what page they're looking at unless they check the actual url.
I'd bet many pages start with an Introduction, Overview, or Getting
Started section.
Yes, and I've already fixed a lot of these.
I could add == Eggs Tutorial to the top of the eggs tutorial page
(above the `[[toc:]]`), and it would kinda' look right, except:
1. Eggs Tutorial would be at the same level (h2) as the other
sections, but it shouldn't be -- it's the title of the page, and
Well, that's easy; just increase the level of all the others by adding
an extra = in front of all of them.
2. The ToC would list it as section 1, containing no content, followed
by section 2, Introduction.
Actually if you put all the other sections down by one the TOC will show
a tree that says:
- Eggs tutorial
- Introduction
- ...
which might be acceptable, and wouldn't require any work, but I don't
think it's optimal.
I don't really understand what you want; even if we changed svnwiki-sxml
to allow = to mean h1 (or == to mean h1, === to mean h2 etc),
it's still up to the users of the wiki to add a title heading to their
pages. This doesn't happen now, so I don't see why people will do this
after this rather trivial change of raising all the levels by 1.
Cheers,
Peter
--
http://sjamaan.ath.cx
--
The process of preparing programs for a digital computer
is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically
and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic
experience much like composing poetry or music.
-- Donald Knuth
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Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
Hi John, On Sep 10, 2011, at 11:56 AM, John Gabriele wrote: I've noticed that some of the wiki pages have an h2 title at the top, some don't. For the ones that have have a table of contents, some have an h2 above the toc, some have it below. I think pages look a bit odd if they have no title at the very top. Looking at the source for a few pages, I haven't seen any h1 tags anywhere. The [editing help](https://wiki.call-cc.org/edit-help) page says not to use = title, as h1's are reserved for use by the wiki itself. I think it would make sense for every page to have an h1 (= Page Title) at the top, which would not be part of a toc (if present), which would be rendered at the top of the page body (above the toc, if present), and which would be used to generate the first portion of the page's title. What do you think? As Peter mentioned, this is a historical quirk of the original svnwiki which was preserved in the new code. What you propose (h1 tag counts for page title but not in TOC) is probably better behavior overall, but we would first need to go through and fix all wiki pages and coordinate an upgrade, and educate all users on the new usage. However, the position of the TOC is up to the user and I'm not sure we should override that by automatically promoting the h1 contents to top of page. I too dislike h2's dual use as a page title and a section header (in which all sections are typically nested at h3, giving the TOC one useless indent). In the meantime for my own pages I have started using h2 as the page title, placed perhaps a short description in that section, then put all subsequent sections under h2 (not h3). This removes the silly indent, although you still unfortunately see the section in the TOC. For an example of this style, see http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/pathfinder or http://api.call-cc.org/doc/pathfinder. Jim ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Peter Bex peter@xs4all.nl wrote:
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 02:29:13PM -0400, John Gabriele wrote:
which might be acceptable, and wouldn't require any work, but I don't
think it's optimal.
I don't really understand what you want; {...}
What I want (what I think would benefit the wiki) is this:
http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/temp/eggs-tutorial-2.html
instead of this:
http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/temp/eggs-tutorial.html
The stopgap measure though, would appear to be this:
https://wiki.call-cc.org/eggs%20tutorial (I just now added the h2
heading to it.)
---John
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Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 06:46:01PM -0400, John Gabriele wrote: What I want (what I think would benefit the wiki) is this: http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/temp/eggs-tutorial-2.html instead of this: http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/temp/eggs-tutorial.html The stopgap measure though, would appear to be this: https://wiki.call-cc.org/eggs%20tutorial (I just now added the h2 heading to it.) What if you increase the level of all headings after the first? This would give you the same structure as your example, with two differences: the H1 is a H2, and the title appears in the TOC. Cheers, Peter -- http://sjamaan.ath.cx -- The process of preparing programs for a digital computer is especially attractive, not only because it can be economically and scientifically rewarding, but also because it can be an aesthetic experience much like composing poetry or music. -- Donald Knuth ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
Re: [Chicken-users] wiki pages and h1 title
On Sep 10, 2011, at 5:46 PM, John Gabriele wrote: The stopgap measure though, would appear to be this: https://wiki.call-cc.org/eggs%20tutorial (I just now added the h2 heading to it.) I think this looks reasonable ___ Chicken-users mailing list Chicken-users@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/chicken-users
