[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Amanda Walker ama...@chromium.org wrote: But the problem is : where are the count-numbers of files? There is no explicit count. As WebKit parses HTML, we queue up requests for resources that are encountered in that HTML. We only know we're done when there are no more pending requests. There is no way to tell in advance. For example, note that CSS files, once they're loaded, can @import more CSS files, increasing the needed to be loaded count. Each time you load a frame or iframe the mystery Amanda describes repeats. Finally, JavaScript files can add any DOM nodes, including more CSS, iframes, and JavaScript. I don't mean to be discouraging. It might be a fun project to implement some sort of progress bar -- for example, it could show the load progress of each resource as they're discovered (see earlier in the thread where you aren't guaranteed to know how long a given resource is). But if it were possible to make a progress bar that browser developers thought would be meaningful, they would have been integrated into browsers already. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
Evan Martin wrote: But if it were possible to make a progress bar that browser developers thought would be meaningful, they would have been integrated into browsers already. The bar part of a progress bar is usually useless. What's nice is being able to see that things are actually getting loaded (e.g., Safari displays completed M of N items, where both M and N change; Opera also displays something similar; Firefox displays a mostly-useless progress bar). I feel like the throbber should somehow indicate that things are actually being loaded (as opposed to hanging, waiting for something which may never complete). Maybe it already does that and I haven't noticed (where's a good hanging website when you need one to test?). - Trung --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Viet-Trung Luu viettrung...@gmail.com wrote: I feel like the throbber should somehow indicate that things are actually being loaded (as opposed to hanging, waiting for something which may never complete). Maybe it already does that and I haven't noticed (where's a good hanging website when you need one to test?). It'd be cool if the throbber pulsed slightly each time a resource completed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
Well, I agree with PhistucK. I think a progress bar may help though it's not so accurate. By the way, if I want to add such a bar with chromium, how should I start? Is there a method that tells the size of the resources to be loaded and the size of the resources already loaded? 2009/9/29 Peter Kasting pkast...@google.com On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Mike Pinkerton pinker...@chromium.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM, PhistucK phist...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, but some indication will be helpful, even the one IE has been giving - Do you not agree? I do not agree. I agree with pinkerton. This is useless detail. The thing I think users conceivably want is when the page is really slow to load, what's going on? Can I speed something up? To some degree, we get that with our status bubble, which pops up saying what the browser is currently doing if it's been waiting a while. I believe Glen had some ideas long ago about finding a way to indicate this kind of thing better in the throbber, or if you hovered it, or something. PK --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:01, Jickae Davis jick...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I agree with PhistucK. I think a progress bar may help though it's not so accurate. By the way, if I want to add such a bar with chromium, how should I start? Is there a method that tells the size of the resources to be loaded and the size of the resources already loaded? If you're trying to debug some slow-loading pages, or slow-network issues, then about:net-internals page may be helpful. You can see outstanding requests there, as well as recently completed requests and which part of each request was most time-consuming etc. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
3x,Paweł . I'm not trying to debug slow-loading pages. I'm reading chromium's src codes and wondering how to add a loading-progress bar based on chromium. Maybe I will to give a try to add such a bar. 2009/10/9 Paweł Hajdan Jr. phajdan...@chromium.org On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:01, Jickae Davis jick...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I agree with PhistucK. I think a progress bar may help though it's not so accurate. By the way, if I want to add such a bar with chromium, how should I start? Is there a method that tells the size of the resources to be loaded and the size of the resources already loaded? If you're trying to debug some slow-loading pages, or slow-network issues, then about:net-internals page may be helpful. You can see outstanding requests there, as well as recently completed requests and which part of each request was most time-consuming etc. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Jickae Davis jick...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I agree with PhistucK. I think a progress bar may help though it's not so accurate. By the way, if I want to add such a bar with chromium, how should I start? Is there a method that tells the size of the resources to be loaded and the size of the resources already loaded? No--there is in fact no way to determine that in advance. Each resource can reference other resources, and even for a single resource we often don't know what size it is until we finish loading it. --Amanda --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
As I understand it, you are talking about adding an overall progress bar for page loading and showing the progress bar somewhere in the Chrome UI. If that is the case, then bear in mind that you need buy-in from the UX team before you add the UI element to the Chromium codebase. I know we left out the progress bar on purpose, so I'd hate to see you spend a lot of time to figure out how to implement this only to have the idea rejected at the review stage because the UX team is not on board with the change. If this is intended for some port of the Chromium code, then you can ignore this message. :) On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 06:12, Amanda Walker ama...@chromium.org wrote: On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Jickae Davis jick...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I agree with PhistucK. I think a progress bar may help though it's not so accurate. By the way, if I want to add such a bar with chromium, how should I start? Is there a method that tells the size of the resources to be loaded and the size of the resources already loaded? No--there is in fact no way to determine that in advance. Each resource can reference other resources, and even for a single resource we often don't know what size it is until we finish loading it. --Amanda --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
No--there is in fact no way to determine that in advance. Each resource can reference other resources, and even for a single resource we often don't know what size it is until we finish loading it. We could provide a dynamically-updating bar with a fraction of files-already-loaded/files-needed, just like Opera does. But the problem is : where are the count-numbers of files? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
As I understand it, you are talking about adding an overall progress bar for page loading and showing the progress bar somewhere in the Chrome UI. yes, I'm interested in chromium. If that is the case, then bear in mind that you need buy-in from the UX team before you add the UI element to the Chromium codebase. I know we left out the progress bar on purpose, so I'd hate to see you spend a lot of time to figure out how to implement this only to have the idea rejected at the review stage because the UX team is not on board with the change. If this is intended for some port of the Chromium code, then you can ignore this message. :) I'm just curious about the problem of how to create such an overall progress bar for page loading. To contribute to chromiun as a team member is beautiful, but I'm afraid I can't think about that now, :). --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:28 PM, Jickae Davis jick...@gmail.com wrote: No--there is in fact no way to determine that in advance. Each resource can reference other resources, and even for a single resource we often don't know what size it is until we finish loading it. We could provide a dynamically-updating bar with a fraction of files-already-loaded/files-needed, just like Opera does. Files-needed would have to get updated on the fly as well. While this might be possible, it's hard to say how useful it is--among other things, simply displaying a dynamic bar with loaded/needed could cause the progress bar to go backwards at certain points, which is not very informative. But the problem is : where are the count-numbers of files? There is no explicit count. As WebKit parses HTML, we queue up requests for resources that are encountered in that HTML. We only know we're done when there are no more pending requests. There is no way to tell in advance. --Amanda --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
Just a guess, but I think it's because progress bars are misleading. If you show a bar for just the progress on the HTML, you reach 100% before the page even displays right; if you wait for all subresources to load, you will hover below 100% as large images or slow subresources load (you ever notice how some sites will often have waiting for someadnetwork.com in the status bar even after it feels like site is done loading?). Add to that that it's difficult to know how far you are along in loading resources: there's HTTP 1.1 chunked encoding and HTTP 0.9 without a content-length header, and then there are apps like gmail that do a bunch of tricks with subframes and javascript to present a multi-stage loading process. On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:13 AM, Jickae Davis jick...@gmail.com wrote: I'm wonderring why Chrome and Safari don't add a progress bar which indicates the progress of loading a html page. I took a look at all the ViewMsg and ViewHostMsg, and didn't find anything related. So, is that unimpossible to create such a progress bar? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
Yeah, but some indication will be helpful, even the one IE has been giving - ## images downloading or something. A count down for resources, even if the resource count changes every few seconds, it is still preferable against being lost in the dark in some way. Do you not agree? ☆PhistucK On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 16:50, Evan Martin e...@chromium.org wrote: f you wait for all subresources to load, you will hover below 100% as large images or slow subresources load (you ever notice how some sites will often have waiting for someadnetwork.com in the status bar even after it feels like site is done loading?). Add to that that it's difficult to know how far you are along in loading resources: there's HTTP 1.1 chunked encoding and HTTP 0.9 without a content-length header, and then there are apps like gmail that do a bunch of tricks with subframes and javascript to present a multi-stage loading process. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM, PhistucK phist...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, but some indication will be helpful, even the one IE has been giving - ## images downloading or something. A count down for resources, even if the resource count changes every few seconds, it is still preferable against being lost in the dark in some way. Do you not agree? I do not agree. I doubt most users care that there are 37 images remaining to load, or 17 scripts. It's just more information to overload them with that they don't understand. -- Mike Pinkerton Mac Weenie pinker...@google.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Is that unimpossible to add a progress bar of page loading with webkit?
On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Mike Pinkerton pinker...@chromium.org wrote: On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:21 PM, PhistucK phist...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, but some indication will be helpful, even the one IE has been giving - Do you not agree? I do not agree. I agree with pinkerton. This is useless detail. The thing I think users conceivably want is when the page is really slow to load, what's going on? Can I speed something up? To some degree, we get that with our status bubble, which pops up saying what the browser is currently doing if it's been waiting a while. I believe Glen had some ideas long ago about finding a way to indicate this kind of thing better in the throbber, or if you hovered it, or something. PK --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
