[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
I agree.. reading this as someone slated for duty tomorrow got me thinking about one pseudo-related question / point. I know lots of time people cram stuff into the tree status to explain who is working on which red bit, and what tests are flaky today and we (sheriffs or someone watching the tree) shouldn't immediately freak out and shut things down for. That doesn't scale so well when there are several things going on. And sometimes it isn't written anywhere, so you have to ask on IRC. That's fine, but it presents a race condition if you're not in the channel at the right time so you have to keep asking, unless you're always on IRC and can cleverly search the window contents. A constant place to go looking for this would make it easier, at least in my opinion. Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) or Webkit dbg (12) to name a few; they're red but the tree is open. The only thing that comes to mind at the moment is a spreadsheet or something we can easily jot down and track currently known problem areas. A real-time tactical plan of sorts, to help sheriffs and anyone else that's interested. We could link to / embed this with a hover-over or something on the waterfall. Maybe that is too much overhead. There's possibly a more usable way to do this, I haven't given it much thought. Has anyone else thought about this in the past? On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 1:31 PM, Jim Roskind j...@chromium.org wrote: If that was not enough of a trick question: Suppose you checkin with 5 other people at the same time, and the tree goes red as a consequence of that group's landing, but you are sure you didn't break the tree. Are YOU responsible to help fix it? Answer: *YES*, you are responsible. For me, all too often (surely more than once) I've been dead sure, absolutely sure, positively sure, it was not me but it WAS me. When the tree goes red, it is the responsibility of ALL persons that committed in that group to repair the tree, or to talk to each other *and* the sheriff. It is not the sheriff's job to revert The sheriff is the fallback, when for good or bad reasons engineers drop the ball, and shirk their responsibility. If you're part of a group that adds color to the tree, and you don't *offer* to revert, and explain (and convince other's) that it wasn't you, then you are adding to the pile up. Not talking, explaining, and hanging around ends up causing other folks (including clueless sheriffs like me) to spend a lot of time evaluating your patch vs the others in your group. By not talking, by not watching, by not helping to clear the redness, an engineer makes the repair take longer. (...and of course, makes it ... er... um less pleasant to be a sheriff). If you don't have enough time to hang out, and wait till the FULL impact (not just compilation) is seen in the tree, then get a buddy (or someone on IRC?) to take help you fulfill your responsibility, or just wait till later to land. Please fly and land responsibly. Thanks, Jim (today's sheriff... but hopefully speaking of behalf of all sheriffs) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Tim Steelet...@chromium.org wrote: you have to keep asking, unless you're always on IRC and can cleverly search the window contents. A constant place to go looking for this would make it easier, at least in my opinion. Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) You need to be on IRC and scroll back: [13:55] dkegelmac valgrind unit - rohitrao? [13:57] motownavi dkegel: very likely [13:58] dkegelemailed rohit [14:02] rohitrao dkegel, jar: looking [14:30] rohitrao jar, dkegel: reverted 22517 I doubt anything more durable than IRC is going to help... IRC and the tree status are the place to go, I'm afraid. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Tim Steele t...@chromium.org wrote: A constant place to go looking for this would make it easier, at least in my opinion. Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) or Webkit dbg (12) to name a few; they're red but the tree is open. If you ever see a case like this, go ahead and close the tree yourself until you get an explanation for every bit of redness. Then put the explanation into the tree status. I know people hate having the tree closed, but we need to be hard-nosed about closing it for _anything_ red. PK --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Peter Kastingpkast...@google.com wrote: Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) or Webkit dbg (12) to name a few; they're red but the tree is open. If you ever see a case like this, go ahead and close the tree yourself until you get an explanation for every bit of redness. Then put the explanation into the tree status. I know people hate having the tree closed, but we need to be hard-nosed about closing it for _anything_ red. Yeah. And don't be afraid to press people to immediately revert if you think that'd make the tree green. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Tim Steele t...@chromium.org wrote: A constant place to go looking for this would make it easier, at least in my opinion. Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) or Webkit dbg (12) to name a few; they're red but the tree is open. If you ever see a case like this, go ahead and close the tree yourself until you get an explanation for every bit of redness. Then put the explanation into the tree status. I know people hate having the tree closed, but we need to be hard-nosed about closing it for _anything_ red. This is the approach I default to, because I'm just pessimistic by nature :) I think the one time I closed the tree in the last 5 months was one of these cases, and I was scolded because it wasn't necessary, so in true Pavlovian fashion I'm now afraid to do it again. Nevertheless, dually noted! Maybe just a way to have a bit more verbose tree status? A details link that would just expand below the status header to show the rest of the text? I'll tell you what, I'll build up a bit more experience as a sheriff myself before I start making grand plans to redesign things :) PK --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
Very much agreed. If anything is red, and it's not immediately clear that someone's on it, close the tree. The burden should be on whoever is explaining why the tree is open but red, not why it's closed, especially for the sheriff. --Amanda On Wednesday, August 5, 2009, Peter Kasting pkast...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Tim Steele t...@chromium.org wrote: A constant place to go looking for this would make it easier, at least in my opinion. Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) or Webkit dbg (12) to name a few; they're red but the tree is open. If you ever see a case like this, go ahead and close the tree yourself until you get an explanation for every bit of redness. Then put the explanation into the tree status. I know people hate having the tree closed, but we need to be hard-nosed about closing it for _anything_ red. PK -- Portability is generally the result of advance planning rather than trench warfare involving #ifdef -- Henry Spencer (1992) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[chromium-dev] Re: Trick question: Who is responsible for repairing a red tree?
One thing the mozilla waterfall has (or did have at one time) is the ability to add comments to any build column/step. I've seen it used so someone can hang a quick comment of reverting or ### pushed with fix. That way right next to a specific problem you can have any extra info, and unlike irc, it's there if you come looking after it's been said. Does it make sense to support something like that? TVL On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Tim Steele t...@chromium.org wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:49 PM, Peter Kasting pkast...@google.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Tim Steele t...@chromium.org wrote: A constant place to go looking for this would make it easier, at least in my opinion. Like right now I don't know what's up with Chromium Mac (valgrind) or Webkit dbg (12) to name a few; they're red but the tree is open. If you ever see a case like this, go ahead and close the tree yourself until you get an explanation for every bit of redness. Then put the explanation into the tree status. I know people hate having the tree closed, but we need to be hard-nosed about closing it for _anything_ red. This is the approach I default to, because I'm just pessimistic by nature :) I think the one time I closed the tree in the last 5 months was one of these cases, and I was scolded because it wasn't necessary, so in true Pavlovian fashion I'm now afraid to do it again. Nevertheless, dually noted! Maybe just a way to have a bit more verbose tree status? A details link that would just expand below the status header to show the rest of the text? I'll tell you what, I'll build up a bit more experience as a sheriff myself before I start making grand plans to redesign things :) PK --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Chromium Developers mailing list: chromium-dev@googlegroups.com View archives, change email options, or unsubscribe: http://groups.google.com/group/chromium-dev -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
