Re: [CinCV] Long video inputs: What format will Cinelerra take well?
Can you chop it up into smaller clips? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCV] How much total memory does Cinelerra need now?
I have managed to load up my project into Cinelerra (see previous posts). When I have done this Cinelerra is using about 3.5GB of virtual and real memory. If I try to render the project, or even to just play it back, the memory goes up by about 0.1GB/s, memory thrashes and eventually Cinelerra dies. I am sure this did not happen previously. The project is only about 20 minutes of total footage, so it should be within Cinelerra's zone of competence. So what sort of total memory requirement is typical these days for Cinelerra and what am I doing wrong? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] How much total memory does Cinelerra need now?
I increased the size of my swap file and the render worked. Cinelerra did need lots of space, about 4GB, but did not seem to be using it very much. I monitored the render using top and realised that, with 1 GB of RAM and 2GB of swap, I had run out of swap (free space about 24MB). So I increased the total swap to 7GB and reran the render. She used about 4GB of that but did not trouble the swap daemon very much, maybe 4% of CPU. 2008/7/23 Roland [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Martin, Did you try to change the audio driver in Settings -- Preferences -- Playback ? Roland (wildhostile) On 2008-07-23 09:00, Martin Ellison wrote: I have managed to load up my project into Cinelerra (see previous posts). When I have done this Cinelerra is using about 3.5GB of virtual and real memory. If I try to render the project, or even to just play it back, the memory goes up by about 0.1GB/s, memory thrashes and eventually Cinelerra dies. I am sure this did not happen previously. The project is only about 20 minutes of total footage, so it should be within Cinelerra's zone of competence. So what sort of total memory requirement is typical these days for Cinelerra and what am I doing wrong? ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Re: Cinelerra hangs when reloading project
I have run into this problem again on another project: Cinelerra crashes when I load my project. 1. Is there an old version around that I could use that does not have this problem? If anyone can identify when this problem started, and I could find a copy of an earlier version (or the source that I could compile from), that would be good. 2. I am getting the following from gdb: [Thread 0x49258950 (LWP 4446) exited] Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. [Switching to Thread 0x45652950 (LWP 4419)] 0x0034aea0cd2b in dv_decode_audio_block () from /usr/lib64/libdv.so.4 And the attachment from a normal run. 2008/7/11 John Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can I load the project using 'create new resources only'? I thought I could only load movie clips that way. If you load the project with create new resources only it will just populate the resources view with the assets you had in the project file, but it won't load all the timeline (EDL) information. At least this is my understanding. -- Thanks, Aaron Newcomb http://www.thesourceshow.org http://www.opennewsshow.org I tried the 'create new resources only' workaround and several others proposed including the one I found of deleting the idx and toc files for the project resources in the .bcast directory. None of them work reliably. I have found that Cinelerra hangs most often on large projects. I have been able to get around the hang sometimes by loading a very small project just to get things started and then load the project I really want to work on. Once Cinelerra hangs on me, it has to be killed and it almost never loads another project until I log out. Sometimes, it actually requires a reboot. I have noticed that I am most successful at loading a project after a fresh reboot. I have posted before that this seems like a resource deadlock. Of course this is just a guess. The required logout or reboot seems to indicate that killing Cinelerra does not necessarily free the condition that is causing the hang, so if it is resource contention, then it may be external to Cinelerra or killing Cinelerra with xkill may leave something behind. Regards, John Griffiths ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org cinelerra-2008-07-21-a Description: Binary data
Re: [CinCV] Re: Cinelerra hangs when reloading project
I have raised this as bug 510 (http://bugs.cinelerra.org/show_bug.cgi?id=510). There are other crashes-when-loading bugs but they are old (2006 or earlier) and I understand that this behaviour has started only more recently. 2008/7/21 Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have run into this problem again on another project: Cinelerra crashes when I load my project. 1. Is there an old version around that I could use that does not have this problem? If anyone can identify when this problem started, and I could find a copy of an earlier version (or the source that I could compile from), that would be good. 2. I am getting the following from gdb: [Thread 0x49258950 (LWP 4446) exited] Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. [Switching to Thread 0x45652950 (LWP 4419)] 0x0034aea0cd2b in dv_decode_audio_block () from /usr/lib64/libdv.so.4 And the attachment from a normal run. 2008/7/11 John Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] Can I load the project using 'create new resources only'? I thought I could only load movie clips that way. If you load the project with create new resources only it will just populate the resources view with the assets you had in the project file, but it won't load all the timeline (EDL) information. At least this is my understanding. -- Thanks, Aaron Newcomb http://www.thesourceshow.org http://www.opennewsshow.org I tried the 'create new resources only' workaround and several others proposed including the one I found of deleting the idx and toc files for the project resources in the .bcast directory. None of them work reliably. I have found that Cinelerra hangs most often on large projects. I have been able to get around the hang sometimes by loading a very small project just to get things started and then load the project I really want to work on. Once Cinelerra hangs on me, it has to be killed and it almost never loads another project until I log out. Sometimes, it actually requires a reboot. I have noticed that I am most successful at loading a project after a fresh reboot. I have posted before that this seems like a resource deadlock. Of course this is just a guess. The required logout or reboot seems to indicate that killing Cinelerra does not necessarily free the condition that is causing the hang, so if it is resource contention, then it may be external to Cinelerra or killing Cinelerra with xkill may leave something behind. Regards, John Griffiths ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Re: Cinelerra hangs when reloading project
Unfortunately, I do not know anything about Cinelerra's internals, so I do not know anything that I could do to help diagnose the problem. I guess it is waiting on something that never happens. I had the bad behaviour when I had Firefox open, so it cannot be specifically that. Perhaps it needs something resource-intensive to slow it down. Can I load the project using 'create new resources only'? I thought I could only load movie clips that way. 2008/7/10 Christian Thaeter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Aaron Newcomb wrote: This has been an ongoing issue for a while. There are already bugs out there. I built the latest from svn yesterday and I still have the issue. It seems that if you kill and reload enough times you can get your project to load. Other users have reported that if you load your project as Create new resources only first and then load it again with Replace current project you might get better results until the bug is resolved. Someone also reported that it works when Firefox is open in parallel, yes, thats weird. I can only suspect a race condition with the Xserver. Otherwise, the locking system in cinelerra is somewhat broken and has some races. Fixing that would need some biggier involvement. Christian On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 3:20 AM, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've run Cin under strace, and all it does after the load command is futex(0x7fb81afc94ec, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 1, NULL -- is it waiting on something that never arrives/happens? Should I raise a bug for this? 2008/7/8 Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone have any ideas about this? It is a major problem. I cannot do any work at all. Is it affecting everyone? (Cinelerra hangs when I try to reload my project). When I kill cinelerra I get the following: signal_entry: got SIGTERM my pid=8962 execution table size=3: vrender.C: run: 414 vrender.C: process_buffer: 103 vrender.C: process_buffer: 113 FileDV::read_frame 40 FileDV::read_frame 80 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1595 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1606 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1609 FileDV::open_file 10 FileDV::open_file 30 signal_entry: lock table size=9 0x7f3539298130 CWindowTool::input_lock CWindowTool::run 0x7f35390bd4b0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml MWindow::paste_edls * 0x7f35390421e0 BC_Repeater::repeat_lock BC_Repeater::run 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml MainIndexes::run 1 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml ResourceThread::do_video 0x7f3539156510 Canvas::canvas_lock VDeviceX11::new_output_buffer * 0x7f35390ebe60 Cinelerra: dvgrab-2008.07.06_18-30-19.dv VDeviceX11::new_output_buffer 1 * 0x7f3539183df0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run BC_Signals::dump_buffers: buffer table size=0 BC_Signals::delete_temps: deleting 0 temp files SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 That is the only diagnostic information that I have. Is there any way of getting any more information about the problem? 2008/7/8 Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Cinelerra hangs when I reload my project. Does anyone (a) know why or what I can do? (b) know the difference between slowly loading a large project and stuck? 1. created a new project 2. loaded up lots of film clips 3. pasted clips onto tracks 4. saved EDL 5. restarted cinelerra 6. loaded saved project result: loads, shows audio tracks, but then sits there in 'wait' cursor (goes around in a circle). Cinelerra does not respond to anything. Details: Cinelerra 2.1CV (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. Compiled on Tue Jun 10 21:54:37 HKT 2008 but the same result with: Cinelerra 2.1CV 2.1 SVN svn20080514 RPMFusion For Fedora/EPEL .fc9.kwizart (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. External ffmpeg Compiled on Thu May 15 17:56:35 EDT 2008 uname -a Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.25.9-76.fc9.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jun 27 15:58:30 EDT 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux I'm using the thumbnail option advised in the wiki. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCV] Re: Cinelerra hangs when reloading project
Does anyone have any ideas about this? It is a major problem. I cannot do any work at all. Is it affecting everyone? (Cinelerra hangs when I try to reload my project). When I kill cinelerra I get the following: signal_entry: got SIGTERM my pid=8962 execution table size=3: vrender.C: run: 414 vrender.C: process_buffer: 103 vrender.C: process_buffer: 113 FileDV::read_frame 40 FileDV::read_frame 80 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1595 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1606 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1609 FileDV::open_file 10 FileDV::open_file 30 signal_entry: lock table size=9 0x7f3539298130 CWindowTool::input_lock CWindowTool::run 0x7f35390bd4b0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml MWindow::paste_edls * 0x7f35390421e0 BC_Repeater::repeat_lock BC_Repeater::run 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml MainIndexes::run 1 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml ResourceThread::do_video 0x7f3539156510 Canvas::canvas_lock VDeviceX11::new_output_buffer * 0x7f35390ebe60 Cinelerra: dvgrab-2008.07.06_18-30-19.dv VDeviceX11::new_output_buffer 1 * 0x7f3539183df0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run BC_Signals::dump_buffers: buffer table size=0 BC_Signals::delete_temps: deleting 0 temp files SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 That is the only diagnostic information that I have. Is there any way of getting any more information about the problem? 2008/7/8 Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Cinelerra hangs when I reload my project. Does anyone (a) know why or what I can do? (b) know the difference between slowly loading a large project and stuck? 1. created a new project 2. loaded up lots of film clips 3. pasted clips onto tracks 4. saved EDL 5. restarted cinelerra 6. loaded saved project result: loads, shows audio tracks, but then sits there in 'wait' cursor (goes around in a circle). Cinelerra does not respond to anything. Details: Cinelerra 2.1CV (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. Compiled on Tue Jun 10 21:54:37 HKT 2008 but the same result with: Cinelerra 2.1CV 2.1 SVN svn20080514 RPMFusion For Fedora/EPEL .fc9.kwizart (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. External ffmpeg Compiled on Thu May 15 17:56:35 EDT 2008 uname -a Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.25.9-76.fc9.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jun 27 15:58:30 EDT 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux I'm using the thumbnail option advised in the wiki. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCV] Re: Cinelerra hangs when reloading project
I've run Cin under strace, and all it does after the load command is futex(0x7fb81afc94ec, FUTEX_WAIT_PRIVATE, 1, NULL -- is it waiting on something that never arrives/happens? Should I raise a bug for this? 2008/7/8 Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anyone have any ideas about this? It is a major problem. I cannot do any work at all. Is it affecting everyone? (Cinelerra hangs when I try to reload my project). When I kill cinelerra I get the following: signal_entry: got SIGTERM my pid=8962 execution table size=3: vrender.C: run: 414 vrender.C: process_buffer: 103 vrender.C: process_buffer: 113 FileDV::read_frame 40 FileDV::read_frame 80 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1595 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1606 mwindowedit.C: paste_edls: 1609 FileDV::open_file 10 FileDV::open_file 30 signal_entry: lock table size=9 0x7f3539298130 CWindowTool::input_lock CWindowTool::run 0x7f35390bd4b0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml MWindow::paste_edls * 0x7f35390421e0 BC_Repeater::repeat_lock BC_Repeater::run 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml MainIndexes::run 1 0x7f3539185380 Cinelerra: trial-1.xml ResourceThread::do_video 0x7f3539156510 Canvas::canvas_lock VDeviceX11::new_output_buffer * 0x7f35390ebe60 Cinelerra: dvgrab-2008.07.06_18-30-19.dv VDeviceX11::new_output_buffer 1 * 0x7f3539183df0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run BC_Signals::dump_buffers: buffer table size=0 BC_Signals::delete_temps: deleting 0 temp files SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 That is the only diagnostic information that I have. Is there any way of getting any more information about the problem? 2008/7/8 Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Cinelerra hangs when I reload my project. Does anyone (a) know why or what I can do? (b) know the difference between slowly loading a large project and stuck? 1. created a new project 2. loaded up lots of film clips 3. pasted clips onto tracks 4. saved EDL 5. restarted cinelerra 6. loaded saved project result: loads, shows audio tracks, but then sits there in 'wait' cursor (goes around in a circle). Cinelerra does not respond to anything. Details: Cinelerra 2.1CV (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. Compiled on Tue Jun 10 21:54:37 HKT 2008 but the same result with: Cinelerra 2.1CV 2.1 SVN svn20080514 RPMFusion For Fedora/EPEL .fc9.kwizart (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. External ffmpeg Compiled on Thu May 15 17:56:35 EDT 2008 uname -a Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.25.9-76.fc9.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jun 27 15:58:30 EDT 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux I'm using the thumbnail option advised in the wiki. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCV] Cinelerra hangs when reloading project
Cinelerra hangs when I reload my project. Does anyone (a) know why or what I can do? (b) know the difference between slowly loading a large project and stuck? 1. created a new project 2. loaded up lots of film clips 3. pasted clips onto tracks 4. saved EDL 5. restarted cinelerra 6. loaded saved project result: loads, shows audio tracks, but then sits there in 'wait' cursor (goes around in a circle). Cinelerra does not respond to anything. Details: Cinelerra 2.1CV (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. Compiled on Tue Jun 10 21:54:37 HKT 2008 but the same result with: Cinelerra 2.1CV 2.1 SVN svn20080514 RPMFusion For Fedora/EPEL .fc9.kwizart (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. External ffmpeg Compiled on Thu May 15 17:56:35 EDT 2008 uname -a Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.25.9-76.fc9.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jun 27 15:58:30 EDT 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux I'm using the thumbnail option advised in the wiki. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Video editors for Linix
I don't think Lumiera is targeting the real-time space. There is an application category for television production where several video streams need to be integrated in real time, but I would think that the mechanics and the interface are so different from 'non-linear' video editing that they would need a completely different application. Maybe they could share a few libraries. In short, Lumiera does not need video jack. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Lumiera Donations Questions
Do check the legal situation. You may find that you need some kind of permit or registration if you are soliciting donations from the public. Also remember that Lumiera is an international project so you have cross-jurisdictional issues ie the laws of more than on e country to consider. Will Lumiera have a 'home' country? Will there be a 'Lumiera Foundation' (like the Blender Foundation or the Wikipedia Foundation)? -- Regards, (the other) Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCV] Cannot find cinelerra package (F9, x86_64)
I've followed the instructions at http://cinelerra.org/getting_cinelerra.phpfor installing cinelerra from an rpm, using yum, to Fedora 9 (x86_64 architecture), but I am getting an error that no package was found. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Cannot find cinelerra package (F9, x86_64)
Not me Raffi, it was KH. I built it from source the traditional way. 2008/6/10 Raffaella Traniello [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 2008-06-10 at 13:04 +0200, KH KH wrote: The instruction aren't good ( someone can fix them ?) So it should be: (...) Martin, thank you s much! You succeeded where I failed. ;-) http://cinelerra.org/getting_cinelerra.php#fedora is now better. Ciao! Raffaella PS: Thanks kwizart. :-) ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Container concept
I think Carl is looking more at organising inputs and work in progress rather than outputs. The final output has an organisation given by a tree of EDLs. However, that still needs ways of organising all the input assets and then to keep track of partial results such as EDLs of individual scenes. [Actually, what do you call something that is longer than a shot but shorter than a scene?]. Carl, is this right? 2008/6/10 Ichthyostega [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thorsten Wilms schrieb: There has been discussion in #lumiera. Instead of containers there will be meta-clips. A clip is just a collection of audio and video streams to go together. A meta-clip can contain clips and other meta-clips. In the timeline each meta-clip will just show the result/mixdown of its contents. Meta-clips can then be opened in another panel/tab/window. ...to make it a bit more clear: a meta-clip is a complete EDL (or timeline if you prefer this term), which is placed into another EDL and appears there like a simple clip. It can even be cut like a normal clip within this target-EDL. The only limitation is that we'll detect circular references and flag them as errors. But it seems it's not quite clear if routing shall happen on a per track or a per object level or even both. In this discussion, we talked a lot about the routing via track, because this is considered the default approach. But to my understanding, you'll be always able to make direct connections per object explicitly to override the automatic routing via track. Moreover, while a normal clip pulls its input from a source reader (i.e. it reads and decodes a media file), you can fed the output of some clip (or meta-clip) explicitly to the source input of another clip. Hermann V. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Container concept
Lumiera (I understand) will have a meta-clip/EDL concept; will this meet your needs? The idea is that one can put together an EDL (Edit Decision List) and then drop that into another timeline as a meta-clip. For example you could make each scene a separate EDL and then combine them all in a top-level EDL. Presumably, you could do some of the other things that you mention, such as dropping the same meta-clip in several times (or reusing it in several videos), or changing the speed or adding other effects. 2008/6/7 Thorsten Wilms [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 13:47 +0200, Kurt Georg Hooss wrote: well... erm... sorry i don't understand. that's really compact. maybe there is some really smart sense in it, so it could be worth that you please elaborate a bit for dummies like me. http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/containers/ Think of the folders, files and folders within folders on your harddrive. In short: a tree. Now the container concept is about showing such trees in time, where each element has a start time and duration. As the horizontal axis is tied to time, members can not be entirely surrounded by their containers, so I had to think of graphical concept that deals with this. It's just like: (animals(dogs(husky)(collie)) but expressed vertically. The same as tree: animals - dogs - husky - collie Now these containers could be used - to group objects. For example, if you import a video that has stereo audio, you'd get a container with 1 video and 2 audio streams in it. So you could move and cut the whole thing, or move and cut the streams independently. - as patterns: make linked copies of containers - to do sub-mixes: do layer-wise compositing per container - express transport scope: everything in the container shares a playback position, a transport state (playing or paused ...) - set a time reference. wrap up objects in it it make time move slower of faster for them. For doing nodes/graphs: Representing nodes and connections on the timeline allows to have processing graphs changing over time. Containers can wrap them up to have patches (path = graph of nodes, where each node is either a plugin or another patch). -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Container concept
Are containers then some way to organise assets? A system of bins for video clips, stills, metaclips, audio clips etc? Organised in a tree structure of containers? 2008/6/7 Thorsten Wilms [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 14:06 +0800, Martin Ellison wrote: Lumiera (I understand) will have a meta-clip/EDL concept; will this meet your needs? The idea is that one can put together an EDL (Edit Decision List) and then drop that into another timeline as a meta-clip. For example you could make each scene a separate EDL and then combine them all in a top-level EDL. It's similar as you have nesting in both cases. With containers, you could keep everything in the open, directly editable. Although it might be good to have collapse/expand to hide/show the contents. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Container concept
The Lumiera project, I understand, has not made any decisions yet about the user interface, so perhaps you could expand on your ideas? It may be useful for the front-end team when they are designing the interaction model. 2008/6/7 Carl Karsten [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Thorsten Wilms wrote: On Sat, 2008-06-07 at 16:50 +0800, Martin Ellison wrote: Are containers then some way to organise assets? A system of bins for video clips, stills, metaclips, audio clips etc? Organised in a tree structure of containers? Yes. On the timeline, no thought went into resource management. Wait, they would act as metaclips themselves. I think I get it: the final timeline would be the outer-most container. from what little I have picked up and extrapolated, Lumiera has this concept, but maybe without the graphical implementation / representation ? Carl K ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Re: Getting Involved for the GUI?
Best to first design the interface between the GUI and the core of the application. Then GUI type decisions can be made by the GUI team without impacting the other sub-projects. Also this helps keep model logic out of the GUI. The interface will need the data structures, the function signatures and also the calling sequences (who calls who, who calls back). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCV] Lumiera logo try 3
interesting, has potential, but does look a bit like Mickey Mouse... On 15/03/2008, Riviere Informatique SARL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about something like the attached? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] [Announce] Second Open Video Developer Meeting
Please accept my apologies, the meeting is at 7am my time and I won't be able to attend. On 02/03/2008, Richard Spindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The Second Open Video Developers Meeting will take place on the 6th of March on the #openvideo IRC channel at the freenode IRC network, the time is: 21:00GMT The Open Video Developers Meeting aims to shape the future of Linux and Open Source Video Editing, as well as discussing the development of a Next Generation Linux Video Editing Software. A basic List of Discussion Points was already drafted at the wiki, everyone is encouraged to contribute further topics: http://pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/MonthlyMeetings Cheers, and have fun, -Richard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Cin3 naming: Official Popularity Contest
How do we get there? is there a link? I haven't received any mail. (And I've checked my spam-trap). On 03/03/2008, Raffaella Traniello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PEPPEREPE'!! (it_IT) BUMMPERUMPH!! (en_EN) The Official Popularity Contest has been launched! In few minutes the 357 active subscribers of this list will be invited to vote at the Condorcet Internet Voting Service. You can express your preferences on the best 15 names of the ~250 proposed by the community. The results will be available to all voters at the end of the election. The voting will be closed on Thursday 6 March 2008 at 20:00 GMT, before the IRC meeting of the devs that will decide *the* name. If you would like to vote but you haven't received the invitation, please send me a mail and I'll add your address to the the voters list. If you are curious to know how we applied the community criteria for selecting just 15 names, you can look at the pipawiki page where every step is documented. http://pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/Names#head-3de6cb9c5b4b9c07f7ac972895c38f313a86e554 Ciao! Raffaella ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Lumierra com and org
At any rate, let us in the end all agree with whatever name emerges. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] beauty in Bands
On 17/02/2008, Ichthyostega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:... Your statement about transitions sounds interesting too. While generally, I get the impression people want plugins-plugins-plugins plus 10 million presets, my own experiences point in the contrary direction. I think, it is much more important to have a small number of rather low-leveled building blocks, sort of working tools, with the ability to handle them very convenient an fluently. For most of the day-to-day work, I use only...(list)... I'd love to have the ability to create my-personal-tools-and-plugin selection and to remove all those other plugins, transitions and effects I don't need, and save this selection in my project or project template. ... This is important. We want it to be easy to write plugins of every kind ...and then to ignore most of them. Cin2 has at least two Chroma Key plugins for example; I am sure that Cin3 will have more. But I am sure most users will only need one (if any). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Why can't free software GUIs be empowering instead of limiting?
- I was thinking specifically of Blender. Is there going to be any way of getting Cin3 and Blender working together? - I don't see any reason why Cin3 could not run on MSWin. If the code is portable, it should be possible to compile it anywhere. It may be necessary to ifdef out some features though. On 11/02/2008, Odin Omdal Hørthe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 11, 2008 7:42 AM, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: some sort of OLE style linkage between programs. This is probably too hard, at least if we want Cin3 to run on MSWin as well. Win? No, we don't want that. Anyway, I don't think it will be hard for other programs to link into The-New-Program-WO-Name, - if they can't do it directly it's only for them to write a plugin for the program. They probably have to be GPL, but that shouldn't be a problem. When we've got the working video editor I don't feel like I need anything more to move my firm to only Free Software :-) Ohwell, maybe a better DVD authoring program like DVD Studio Pro. -- Beste helsing, Odin Hørthe Omdal [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.velmont.net ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Why can't free software GUIs be empowering instead of limiting?
It will need to be a case of, you want Cin3 to talk to MSWin, you cut the code. Or if you want Cin3 to talk to some API, you write the code. The Cin3 umbrella is going to cover lots of sub-projects; I don't see why they cannot include Cin3-on-MSWin. Cin3 should be free/open in the standard distribution, and legal in reasonable jurisdictions. Our efforts should be to produce an excellent video editor that runs on major free distributions. But I would not place roadblocks to stop it being ported to commercial distributions if anyone wants to do so. s/Cin3/$name/g as always. On 12/02/2008, Stefan de Konink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Martin Ellison schreef: * I was thinking specifically of Blender. Is there going to be any way of getting Cin3 and Blender working together? Wasn't there this video rendering thing that used Blender to render transitions? GVFX (GNU Video FX for NLEs) * I don't see any reason why Cin3 could not run on MSWin. If the code is portable, it should be possible to compile it anywhere. It may be necessary to ifdef out some features though. I feel this mailinglist getting almost extremist about this issues. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHsHuIYH1+F2Rqwn0RCqeQAJ4/WACcpidL7x07h0n0EdzrccFZYACfd/AR QIHJh6UbCCeoX959OZ83VTk= =3I48 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Why can't free software GUIs be empowering instead of limiting?
Well, that leads to the question of some of the nodes in the graph being outside Cin3. I had envisaged Cin3 having a plug-in architecture, but that implies that the plugins would be written to the Cin3 plugin API (or one of the Cin3 plugin APIs; it seems that there will be several). But that implies some sort of OLE style linkage between prgrams. This is probably too hard, at least if we want Cin3 to run on MSWin as well. On 11/02/2008, Leo germani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was thinking of an ideia the other day... of a multi-level time line... something similar to the Flash Time line in a way... this means you can paste a whole project in you time line and it will appear as if it was one clip. Double click on it and you edit its project, that may contain another project inside of it and so on... Of course you could put this project how many times youd like. And it would be even better if you could send some paramaters to it. its starting to get complicated... But imagine you make a project wich is an animation of some graphics combined with a text. And you want to use it several times in your project, but each time with a different text... you could have only one project with the animations and have the text set by a variable you send when you paste the project on you timeline as if it was a clip... Another important thing to consider is the ability to import xcf gimp images with all the layers and stuff... Leo,, On Feb 10, 2008 10:38 AM, Claude Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat February 9 2008, Richard Spindler wrote: http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/why_cant_free_software_guis_be_ empowering_instead_limiting Of course not without the secret intention of pushing the Idea of a nodal UI in his GUI suggestion towards the end of that article, he's almost perfectly describing the Digital Fusion interface -- Claude Jones Brunswick, MD, USA ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- leogermani.pirex.com.br leogermani.estudiolivre.org -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] User Interface CONCEPTS mockup.
Good start... presumably, to create the internal node graph, an editor could use either (a) something like the 'add effect to clip' paradigm in the original Cin interface or (b) an explicit node graph. I'm not sure what the scratch bus is; could you explain it more? I suspect it's a good idea though. Could we see more such pictures please? On 06/02/2008, Richard Spindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I've made a little Picture about how I think the User Interface of a yet to be named Video Editor could be presented. There is no central notion of the camera/projector Model, which I think could be added anywhere in the Graphs as a Node with an unlimited Number of inputs. http://propirate.net/oracle/zipfiles/UI-concepts-CineTris.png Please tell me what you think. Automations are not yet part of the Mockup, but could be added. Cross Bus connections would likely not be represented by Arrows in a real UI, but rather the Bus would be adressed by Name. The dotted Lines mean that one element expands to a different View, for example in a new Window. The same goes for the rectangles with the slashed outline, they represent another View, and the connection from the timeline to the compositing nodes will be by Name, and not by arrows. Default Names would be Video Track #1, etc. cehteh, ichthyo, do you think that the backend could be used with such a frontend? Cheers, and have fun. -Richard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Vote for a Name for a new NLE
If no name gets over 50%, perhaps you could have a run-off between the top two proposals... I've already voted for Freecine, but I msu say Verite (Verité?) is also attractive. On 06/02/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm torn between Freecine and Verite (without the CV) Ah..Verite. scott -- Original message -- From: Yama Ploskonka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Richard Spindler wrote: The Following Names were the preferred choices on the wikipage at http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/Names for more information about the individual names, see there. How to vote? Make an X in the Box before the name, and send this mail back to the list. [x] Cinchrony [ ] CinNG [ ] StCinner [ ] Freecine [ ] Video Edith [ ] VeriteCV [ ] CineCV [ ] Free Cut Pro [ ] CiNLEss [ ] cinleia [ ] CineTris [ ] LerraCine Cheers -Richard ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Potential Flamebait: Programming Language Choice for Cin3
C and C++ are the only real options for the core because they are the only languages that 1. have the necessary speed and 2. are known by a significant number of free/open programmers. In theory the user interface could be written in Perl/Python/whatever. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: [piksel] UI Toolkits: The Real Facts (Linux Video Editing)
On 04/02/2008, Ichthyostega [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Martin Ellison schrieb: Besides, the general wisdom is start from the glass and design backwards from there. Has anyone mugged up some screenshots of what Cin3 will look like? :-) please don't take this offensive, but would you call it wisdom to plan and build a new moon landing rocket spaceship starting out with the look and feel of the instruments in the cockpit?? It is actually quite important to get the cockpit instrumentation right... I understand that the Apollo project put quite a lot of effort into the controls of the lunar lander. But I don't usually get offended. sarcasmWell, we all know this is common sense nowadays./sarcasm More the accumulated conclusions of several decades of designing GUI-based applications. To return to the GUI discussion: rather than debate about toolkits and widgets, we should collect ideas how to improve the USABILITY of cinelerra to start with Well, yes, I could not agree more. But for many people (especially the visually-focussed, and that is common in the video editing profession) it is pictures of the application that will help them think through the application design. It doesn't need to be pretty, or even too close to the end result, but it does help the discussion. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Vote for a Name for a new NLE
[X] Freecine /fri: si:n/ or /fri: ʧi: ne:/? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and Cin-3
The important point for GUI design is the workflow. 'Skins' and other eye candy are attractive for the first five minutes and then just get in the way of getting work done. Cutting the code to do button clicks is tedious but straightforward. But designing the workflow and designing a user interface that supports the workflow is not trivial. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] [Announce] First Open Video Developer meeting ((ex-)Cinelerra3)
5am my time, and I don't do mornings... too cold... On 31/01/2008, Thomas King [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did I miss something? Was the name decided? By the way, if not decided, the subject line Christian wrote makes me think of OVENg (Open Video Editor Next gen) or some derivative. Not on the wiki yet, though. :) Tom K. Some time ago we proposed to make regular developer meetings on IRC but we did not finally decide about dates an times. http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/DesignProcess/MonthlyDeveloperMeetingOnIRC In the past days there was quite some discussion on different Mailinglists about technical details. I think it is a good time to pick the idea about an regular meeting up and do some low-noise talk about actual developments. The first meeting will be at Friday the 1. February 2008 at 21:00 GMT on irc.freenode.net in #openvideo Invited is anyone who want to be involved with the Video Editor we are planning as well as Developers of other/similar projects. I prepared a page for brainstorming things to be talked about: http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra3/MonthlyMeetings Feel free to add ideas there. See you Friday Christian ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCVS] Cin3: is it really necessary to have fixed global tracks?
I've been looking at the Cin3 documentation on http://ichthyostega.de/cin3and I notice under ProblemsTodo there is the question, is it really necessary to have fixed global tracks? Can I argue that the answer is No, and that a better approach is to use a tree of Metatracks. One kind of metatrack would be the result of a timeline, which would incorporate multiple input (meta)tracks. An editor could ignore this and just have one timeline that took the real input tracks as input and output the final render. This would be the same as Cin2. But in any more complex project it would be possible to build up the results, editing each scene on its own timeline to a metaclip and then all the scene metaclips on a timeline into the final render. In a more complex project the editor might work on more levels, perhaps building up each shot on its own timeline to a metaclip, then combining these to scenes, then to the final render. This would make the timelines individually simpler and more tractable. Also it means that changes to one timeline would not affect the other timelines. In all this I am referring to the user interface (in the sense of the view of the editing project as presented to, and manipulated by, a video editor). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: User interface toolkits and Cin-3
On 30/01/2008, Richard Spindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Discussing Toolkits is pointless btw. without someone actually writing the Code for said toolkit. Best to think about what code we are going to write before we start writing the code. We don't want to spend two years coding and then find that we should have taken a different approach. About 5% of the total effort needs to go on planning and tracking. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: Cin-3
Many developers will already be familiar with the Model-View-Controller paradigm, but for non developers, it is important that we follow this in designing Cin3. The key concepts are: - split between the user interface (views and controllers) and the back end (model) - split across functionality areas, so that the back end is divided into multiple models and each of these has its own views and controllers. Thus the functionality area of Chroma Key Plugin might have a model that records the relevant parameters (key colour, fuzz factor etc) and applies them to a film clip, and the view/controller will display these parameters as a dialog box and allow modification to the values. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Re: Cin-3
Several comments to a few of many comments: - to me. the main problem with the user interface is that it is part of a large monolithic back-end-plus-user-interface. If I wanted to make changes to Cin2, where would I start? What I would want (if I were doing any coding) is to be able to draw a circle around the bits of code that I needed to think about. - the other problem with the user interface is that it uses its own toolkit. You don't want to maintain a GUI toolkit. You want to use one that someone else is maintaining. Actually there are several good toolkits out there (Gnome, Qt, wxWidgets, MS Windows) and it would be nice if (at least in principle) anyone could rewrite just the user interface to work with their favourite toolkit without too much effort. Myself, I would go with wx as it is cross-platform. We may need to build some custom widgets, but then separating out that part of the code into a GUI widget would be a win. - free/open source is not open development. You can write code yourself and release it under the GPL, and it is free/open source. But the, what is 'open' development? You need to have a 'Linus' who decides in the end what is and is not part of the official release. What I believe is important is that the design is modular (see my previous posts) so that developers can work on their own modules without official approval and then the community can mix-and-match whichever modules they want. - I agrree with Christian, the name should not be anything like 'Cinelerra'. Cin3 will do as a temporary reference. I'm a bit short of ideas for the release title. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCVS] User interface toolkits and Cin-3
(For Qt), Is it possible for the community (ie anyone outside TrollTech) to write user interface widgets? Cin3 will need to write some specialist widgets -- how will this fit in with the toolkit and the toolkit's development process? On 30/01/2008, David Kletzli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Qt is *very* cross-platform. I don't have experience with wxWidgets, so they may be the same, but with Qt, I've usually just required a recompile when going between OSX, Windows, and Linux. Just my humble plug. On Tuesday 29 January 2008 23:15, Martin Ellison wrote: Several comments to a few of many comments: - the other problem with the user interface is that it uses its own toolkit. You don't want to maintain a GUI toolkit. You want to use one that someone else is maintaining. Actually there are several good toolkits out there (Gnome, Qt, wxWidgets, MS Windows) and it would be nice if (at least in principle) anyone could rewrite just the user interface to work with their favourite toolkit without too much effort. Myself, I would go with wx as it is cross-platform. We may need to build some custom widgets, but then separating out that part of the code into a GUI widget would be a win. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] cinelerra3
Focus on the user experience (the user here being the video editor). What's in it for them to use Cin3? On 27/01/2008, Helge Nert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CiNLEss (Community Implemented NLE Software Suite) On Jan 27, 2008 12:47 AM, marquitux caballero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I´m no coder, but I want to say it should have to give an idea about what id does or what features the developers think the users will VALUE most, if you think nodes is te mos important thing you maybe want to combine the concept with *nix or with cinema... NodiX sounds too stupid (sory for mention it) but ilustrates the example (xnodeHD,NodeHD,nodeXTreme) if you want to point something in the core, you coul think something like: -CinECORE -REELENGINE -HorsengineHD -CinMultiple well.. all those sound too stupid now that i read them, hehehe... but those may iluminate someone to find the rigth name :P just a contribution. Marquitux PS: can you create some kind of interoperativity with other nle´s , or DVD creation programs, to wok more like a SUITE in linux video editing? -- Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messengerhttp://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Standards for render components
I should add that the user interface needs to be different from the node graph -- I read Herman the Fish House to be saying this -- in that multiple nodes of the graph would be created/edited by one edit window. But the user interface is in a sense secondary. Given a model (the EDL) it would be possible to create several user interfaces. It would also be possible to control the model by scripting, a command line interface, or (though an API) another program. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Standards for render components
OK, though I suspect many plugin writers would like to avoid all the extra complexity, so perhaps the interface needs a render context hints object. On 23/01/2008, Herman Robak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:58:27 +0100, Christian Thaeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have a scheduler where we can assert frame pulls I need frame 2 at quality level N in 17ms, and btw i am playing forward, if possible prepare me frame 2 and following as well. This Scheduler can the report immediately Yes sounds doable or No way, I wont even try, drop this. As well as some extra hints like give me the nearest frame to frame 40 within X ms or adaptive quality/resolution while scrubbing one sees low res/low quality preview and when stopping scrubbing the exact frame where it stopped is rendered in (maybe incremental) better quality/res. I'll elaborate a little on this one. One of the ideas we (Christian, Richard and I) considered was give me any of frame 30 to 50 within 17 ms. That is, specify an acceptable range. I will explain to everyone why this is useful. If you seek through half an hour of video really quickly, by dragging the slider through the video in twenty-thirty seconds, it will play back blindingly fast: 50-100 times normal speed. Every two seconds of video will be displayed as a single frame. A five second clip will be on the screen less than 1/10 of a second. Yet this brief flash is long enough that you notice it, if you know what you are looking for. I've tried this in Cinelerra with large DV files. It was smooth and responsive. It was useful. I loved it. Now try this with high definition video, which is temporally compressed. It doesn't work. You'll only get a few frames per second at best. Scrubbing and seeking gets at least ten times slower, unresponsive, laggy, jerky. It was not very useful. I hated it. When you zip through a video at 100x speed, you won't care if it was frame 110 or frame 112 that just flashed by. Because your temporal resolution has been zoomed out to one frame every fourth second. If Cinelerra displayed frame 135 instead of frame 110 you could not possibly tell, because at 100x speed it's just 1/100 second wrong. So playback at 10x speed or more should be quite easy, since the tolerance is so much wider. But in order to exploit that, the backend must be told what the tolerence (the range) is. -- Herman Robak ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCVS] Standards for render components
Where should Cinelerra go next? Several comments: - the first components to focus on should be - the renderer -- renders from the Edit Decision List and the assets to a codec, taking however long it requires - the previwer -- renders to a screen window, taking at most 17ms so it can do 60f/s - the renderer needs to be made up of components that might - apply an effect frame-by-frame (each frame independently eg chromakey) - change the number of frames (eg pulldown) - combine several clips (transitions, compositing) - the edit decision list would then be a graph of component nodes - free/open source projects work by dividing the code base into modules that can be worked on independently, replaced by better alternatives, and reused on other projects. - therefore the important thing is to define the interface between components. Also, look at Blender. This contains a video editor with similar functionality to Cinelerra but a less-usable user interface. However, it would be good if both projects could address the same interface to allow reuse of components. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] What would motivate developers
It is a design issue... when you say it will kill Cinelerra, do you mean she has such a monolithic design that no-one will work on her? a long-term developer will in time pick up a fair percentage of the code base, but to get developers in there in the first place, there needs to be problems of manageable size for them to work on, and in particular the amount of learning that they need to do of the existing codebase must be manageable. But is Cinelerra manageble in that state? Can she be put into that state? On 14/11/2007, Z F [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 1. Developers don't want to learn 100,000 lines of code before they contribute anything. Please, forgive me, but exactly this type of philosophy will kill Cinelerra. This is a design isssue. Design of code should be such that it is not necessary to learn huge amounts, but to contribute, one would most likely have to learn anyway... For this design problem to be solved there should be the master of the main development trunk and all patches/contributions should conform to the requirements of the project which should be spelled-out. Good intentions are not enough. broken patches should not be acceptable even though someone else could fix them. Well, this is my opinion. Unfortunatelly, I am at the stage of reading design patterns books and learning how to use them... I would suggest that the leaders of the project get together and set the rules and ask everybody to follow them :) ZF Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] What would motivate developers
1. Developers don't want to learn 100,000 lines of code before they contribute anything. 2. It depends what you mean by Cinelerra... Perhaps you would be better off starting a new video editor from scratch and reusing design elements from Cinelerra when useful; some of the suggestions seem to amount to this, except they want to call it Cinelerra. Cinelerra is a bit different from other free/open-source projects in that the Original Founder (Jack) does not want to manage the community project (contrast Linus); neither is he prepared to hand everything over to someone else. This leads to a question that will always be with us -- what is authentically Cinelerra? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
On 12/11/2007, Aaron Newcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:... I don't use firewire with Cinelerra normally. Is there something I can test for you? dvgrab... though it may need some tweaking in any event. For example, ~ dvgrab raw1394 - failed to get handle: No such file or directory. But you do not need to actually plug in any Firewire devices. Just getting dvgrab to run would be good. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
I'm x86_64, which brings it's own litany of problems. On 10/11/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/11/10, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nothing there, but if I do sudo grep ohci /var/log/messages then I get Nov 9 10:35:43 localhost kernel: ohci1394: fw-host0: OHCI-1394 1.0(PCI): IRQ=[18] MMIO=[d000-d7ff] Max Packet=[2048] IR/IT contexts=[4/8] So presumably I am on ohci 1.0. So, having downloaded Fedora 8, should I install it? You can install it and see if it work with the new stack Here is the most recent news about this issue: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-November/msg00628.html Until there is a libraw1394 compatible with both stack, i can provide a compat-libraw1394 which would work with the old stack (and not the new one, unless uninstalled). Which is your targetted arch (so i can work on the compat-layer for F8 ?) x86 x86_64 or ppc ? (I can only work on x86 or x86_64 for now...) Nicolas (kwizart) On 09/11/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/11/9, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] : How can I tell? It's from VIA Technologies; that's all the information I'm getting. [EMAIL PROTECTED] include]# dmesg |grep fw firewire_ohci: Added fw-ohci device :02:0c.0, OHCI version 1.0 ^^ that's in my case Nicolas (kwizart) On 09/11/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/11/9, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fedora 8 is out with just a passing mention of improved Firewire support in the release notes; does anyone know if this is 'improved' as in Fedora 7 or does it work again now? Again! It depend on your hardware! ohci 1.1 compatibles devices are known to work better If any has difficulties with the new stack... I can help providing non-replacement packages (compat-libraw1394 ) and kernel module ( kmod-ieee1394 ) to use the old stack (with ohci 1.0 devices). (even with a cinelerra pacakge compatibles with the rpm.livna.org repository...) Nicolas (kwizart) On 01/11/2007, Eric Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone tried the FC8 test releases (or rawhide) to see if firewire is in any better shape (out of the box) ? - Original Message From: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:12:15 PM Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1 It's broken out of the box. Firewire worked in a straight FC6 install; it doesn't work in a straight F7 install. There are various fixes but they break other things. For me, they break the nVidia driver support. (The fix is to use the EZPlanet kernel). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
How can I tell? It's from VIA Technologies; that's all the information I'm getting. On 09/11/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/11/9, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fedora 8 is out with just a passing mention of improved Firewire support in the release notes; does anyone know if this is 'improved' as in Fedora 7 or does it work again now? Again! It depend on your hardware! ohci 1.1 compatibles devices are known to work better If any has difficulties with the new stack... I can help providing non-replacement packages (compat-libraw1394 ) and kernel module ( kmod-ieee1394 ) to use the old stack (with ohci 1.0 devices). (even with a cinelerra pacakge compatibles with the rpm.livna.org repository...) Nicolas (kwizart) On 01/11/2007, Eric Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone tried the FC8 test releases (or rawhide) to see if firewire is in any better shape (out of the box) ? - Original Message From: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:12:15 PM Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1 It's broken out of the box. Firewire worked in a straight FC6 install; it doesn't work in a straight F7 install. There are various fixes but they break other things. For me, they break the nVidia driver support. (The fix is to use the EZPlanet kernel). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
Nothing there, but if I do sudo grep ohci /var/log/messages then I get Nov 9 10:35:43 localhost kernel: ohci1394: fw-host0: OHCI-1394 1.0 (PCI): IRQ=[18] MMIO=[d000-d7ff] Max Packet=[2048] IR/IT contexts=[4/8] So presumably I am on ohci 1.0. So, having downloaded Fedora 8, should I install it? On 09/11/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/11/9, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: How can I tell? It's from VIA Technologies; that's all the information I'm getting. [EMAIL PROTECTED] include]# dmesg |grep fw firewire_ohci: Added fw-ohci device :02:0c.0, OHCI version 1.0 ^^ that's in my case Nicolas (kwizart) On 09/11/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/11/9, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fedora 8 is out with just a passing mention of improved Firewire support in the release notes; does anyone know if this is 'improved' as in Fedora 7 or does it work again now? Again! It depend on your hardware! ohci 1.1 compatibles devices are known to work better If any has difficulties with the new stack... I can help providing non-replacement packages (compat-libraw1394 ) and kernel module ( kmod-ieee1394 ) to use the old stack (with ohci 1.0 devices). (even with a cinelerra pacakge compatibles with the rpm.livna.org repository...) Nicolas (kwizart) On 01/11/2007, Eric Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone tried the FC8 test releases (or rawhide) to see if firewire is in any better shape (out of the box) ? - Original Message From: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:12:15 PM Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1 It's broken out of the box. Firewire worked in a straight FC6 install; it doesn't work in a straight F7 install. There are various fixes but they break other things. For me, they break the nVidia driver support. (The fix is to use the EZPlanet kernel). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] problems with resources window
maybe move the slider around? try all the way to the left or all the way to the right On 08/11/2007, Scott C. Frase [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Eric, I ran FC6 for about eight months and never experienced that problem. I compiled from CVS source, though. You could try removing or renaming the Cinelerra index and preferences directory, ../yourusername/.bcast. This will have the side effect of removing your video index files and any preferences you may have selected within Cinelerra. Renaming would be the best way to go because Cinelerra will just create a new .bcast directory. Also, if it doesn't work, you could rename the directory back to the original and then you'd have your prefs and index files back. scott On Wed, 2007-11-07 at 14:40 -0800, Eric Jorgensen wrote: Hello, I have a FC6 box that I'm running cinelerra on (cinelerra-2.1-0.12.20070108.fc6). The system is fully patched, and cinelerra runs normally, for the most part. However, in the last couple of days, I had a problem where the resources window is completely black. There's no list down the left side, no dividing bar, nothing. I've resized it, moved it, exited, rebooted, and it is always blank. I can start out with a new project and it remains blank. I can load resources, and it stays blank. Has anyone seen this before? Have any hints on how I can fix this? Thanks! Eric ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
Fedora 8 is out with just a passing mention of improved Firewire support in the release notes; does anyone know if this is 'improved' as in Fedora 7 or does it work again now? On 01/11/2007, Eric Jorgensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone tried the FC8 test releases (or rawhide) to see if firewire is in any better shape (out of the box) ? - Original Message From: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:12:15 PM Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1 It's broken out of the box. Firewire worked in a straight FC6 install; it doesn't work in a straight F7 install. There are various fixes but they break other things. For me, they break the nVidia driver support. (The fix is to use the EZPlanet kernel). -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra 64bit
Maybe he needs the -devel libraries. On 07/11/2007, Jürgen Nentwig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (This mail was originally sent to Herman Robak, and redirected to the mailing list.) (Jürgen: You have to subscribe to the mailing list https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra or read the list archives https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/cinelerra/ to receive answers from the list.) Version : cinelerra-2.1.cv1036-0.pm.x86_64.rpm from Packman PC-configuration : AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 146 nVidia GeForce 7900GS Memory 2 GB Linux 2.6.22.9-0.4-default x86_64 oepenSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) Dear Mr. Robak I have installed the program withYast2 und I also have this started. I see all masks correctly. The button for clips and the button for media are not on the window. (I also have installed the same program on another PC, Pentium 4) It's impossibily to start this function. I also have must restart the PC. I also have try to start the installation as follows: svc checkout svn://svn.skolelinux.org/cinelerra/trunk/hvirtual But always I have the following advice: ./configure write the libraries libraw1394 and libiec61883 are not installed. But this both libraries are installed. I look in Yast2 install What can I do for running this program on my PC's? I hope you can help me by this problem. For your answer I thank you very mutch. Best regards Juergen-Peter Nentwig *Jürgen Nentwig* *Wiedenbüelstr 1* *CH-8617 Mönchaltorf* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
There used to be Fedora Core and Fedora Extras. They merged them, hence just Fedora now. Firewire support is broken on F7. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fedora Core 7 FC7 and cinelerra 2.1
It's broken out of the box. Firewire worked in a straight FC6 install; it doesn't work in a straight F7 install. There are various fixes but they break other things. For me, they break the nVidia driver support. (The fix is to use the EZPlanet kernel). On 27/10/2007, KH KH [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/10/27, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There used to be Fedora Core and Fedora Extras. They merged them, hence just Fedora now. Firewire support is broken on F7. Firewire isn't broken on Fedora, this is mythology. But actually only newer firewire devices (or somehow some models) are supported by the new juju stack... there is sometime tweaks to do (specially for the /dev/fw-0 perms ) vi /etc/udev/rules.d/50-udev.rules. and add KERNEL==fw*, OWNER=root GROUP=firewire MODE=0660 Older models that want old firewire stack (which will be broken as this is an unstable old stack ) can have a workaround with installing an external kernel module package: The one i've made is experimental and gives back the old firewire stack seehttp://kwizart.free.fr/fedora/7/testing/ieee1394/ (eth1394.ko isn't working safe to rm ) You will need the old userland libs also (probably libraw1394 and others...etc) This is an experimental package, if you don't knwo how to backlist modules and load raw1394.ko, don't use it...( if you knwo how to do, please give me feedback about which modules to blacklist fro loading into kernel) There was an experimental repository that have userland tools rebuilt for the old stack... I think it could be used, but it has also a kernel which is not necessary... http://www.ezplanetone.com/xwiki/bin/view/KnowledgeBase/BrokenFC7FireWire Nicolas (kwizart ) -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Splitting a video file into separate files
In Cinelerra you can attach labels at the split pints and get it to produce separate files. On 14/10/2007, Thomas Levine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it'll be easier to manage the video I'm analyzing if I split the hour-long files I have into smaller files of approximately three minutes each but whose endpoints are determined by what's happening in the video. What program do I use to do this? I could probably do it in Cinelerra, but I haven't figured out how, and there's probably something easier as Cinelerra is really designed for editing. Thomas Levine -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Problems compiling on fc7.
Do you have all the dependencies installed? It looks like libfaac-devel is missing. On 12/09/2007, Jeremy Fleming [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I installed the RPM of cinelerra for FC7. However Drag and Drop does not work (at all). So i decided to compile it from the latest source. I have all the deps installed. I run into this problem. If i use external ffmpeg it still wont compile. I am not really to interested in compiling against external libraries since it raises a whole host of other issues. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jeremy gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I../../.. -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_LARGEFILE64_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -DHAVE_MMX -DUSE_MMX -DX86_CPU -DHAVE_MMX -DHAVE_BUILTIN_VECTOR -D_GNU_SOURCE -DHAVE_AV_CONFIG_H -I./.. -I.. -g -O2 -MT faad.lo -MD -MP -MF .deps/faad.Tpo -c faad.c -fPIC -DPIC -o .libs/faad.o faad.c:57: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'faacDecHandle' faad.c: In function 'faac_init_mp4': faad.c:115: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecInit2' faad.c: In function 'faac_decode_frame': faad.c:140: error: 'faacDecFrameInfo' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:140: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once faad.c :140: error: for each function it appears in.) faad.c:140: error: expected ';' before 'frame_info' faad.c:158: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecDecode' faad.c:158: error: 'frame_info' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:162: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecGetErrorMessage' faad.c: In function 'faac_decode_end': faad.c:181: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecClose' faad.c:182: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecClose' faad.c: In function 'faac_decode_init': faad.c:191: error: 'faacDecConfigurationPtr' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:191: error: expected ';' before 'faac_cfg' faad.c:212: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecOpen' faad.c:212: error: 'faacDecOpen' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:213: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecGetCurrentConfiguration' faad.c:213: error: 'faacDecGetCurrentConfiguration' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:228: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecSetConfiguration' faad.c:228: error: 'faacDecSetConfiguration' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:230: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecInit' faad.c:230: error: 'faacDecInit' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:232: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecInit2' faad.c:232: error: 'faacDecInit2' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:235: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecDecode' faad.c:235: error: 'faacDecDecode' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:237: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecGetErrorMessage' faad.c:237: error: 'faacDecGetErrorMessage' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:252: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecOpen' faad.c:260: error: 'faac_cfg' undeclared (first use in this function) faad.c:260: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecGetCurrentConfiguration' faad.c:290: error: 'FAACContext' has no member named 'faacDecSetConfiguration' make[5]: *** [faad.lo] Error 1 make[5]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/hvirtual/quicktime/ffmpeg/libavcodec' make[4]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[4]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/hvirtual/quicktime/ffmpeg/libavcodec' make[3]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/hvirtual/quicktime/ffmpeg' make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/hvirtual/quicktime' make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/hvirtual' make: *** [all] Error 2 -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] switching between video tracks while keeping audio in sync
This is an A-B edit right, where you want the sound from the A reel but alternate between the A and B reels for the picture? You can have two video tracks #1 and #2 (#2 with the A reel video) and your audio tracks from the A reel. Track #1 gets selected clips, video only, from the B reel. You get the B reel where there are clips and the A reel the rest of the time. You can paste parts of your B reel at different places in the #1 track, just remember to dis-arm the #2 video track and the audio first. Then just move the cursor on the main timeline to where you want the start of the clip, select the relevant parts of the B reel using [ ] and paste into the #1 track. You can use this for cutaways to the audience, reaction shots and the like. On 07/09/07, Daniel Jircik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What would be ideal from an old school analog tape editor like myself would be a Resources Video Effect Gen Lock really a pseudo genlock. Pulling over GenLock would effect all armed video tracks. Right click on effect shows a list of armed video tracks (cam a b) Here you can enter the slate or sync mark by selecting it on the time line. Select sync for each camera. Track(s) is automagicly pulled back or forth with a 1 second preroll. On the Gen Lock widget is a button marked Preview and a button marked Take for each armed video track. Clicking Preview sends that track to the Viewer window, Clicking on Take sends that track to the timeline. Now you can add effects transitions on your cuts. Select the master in and out points and Write to Clip or render . Widget would look like this: TRACKS -SYNC IN -SET SYNC- PREVIEW- TAKE Video1- XX:XX:123- button1 -button2 - button3 Video2- XX:XX:254- button4 -button5 - button6 Video3- XX:XX:420- button7 -button8 - button9 -button10 = Write to Clip ( or use Write to Clip on timeline or viewer) I'll throw a 100.00 (usd) bounty on it if someones interested. (What's the proper channel for bounties.) Kind Regards Daniel On 9/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Robert Persson wrote: In Media 100 and Avid this is very easy to do, and in some other editors you can work around it by splitting the main video track (i.e. the one that is in sync with the audio) and trimming it to make a gap, but I can't find a way to split the track. I have tried cutting a chunk out of the track, but when I do this, everything to the right of the cut moves left to fill the gap. I'd suggest using mute. Turn on create keyframes while tweeking[sic], and display mute keyframes, and then you can switch the top track on and off with mute. Where it's turned off, the next track down in the stack will show through. By the way, it should be tweaking. I've only ever seen the word tweeking used in Cinelerra, and to refer to methamphetamine abuse. -- Matthew Skala [EMAIL PROTECTED]Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] problems installing on FC7
It's a right pain... I'm not really sure why the faad2 problem exists; I think it's two people not talking with each other (the ffmpeg people and the faad2 people). One would think that they could have sorted it out by now. I wound up pulling down the source and compiling it without internal ffmpegwhich avoids these problems. If you have a 64 bit system you also need to stuff around with the PIC settings to get it to build. On 30/08/2007, John Coulthard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I'm trying to install cinelerra on fedora core7. With the help of this list, FC7 package manager, yum and downloaded rpms I'm down to just 4 missing components but they've got me stumped can anyone help? Thanks Summary of mandatory components: libogg found libvorbis found libvorbisencfound libvorbisfile found libtheora found OpenEXR found libdv found libpng found libjpeg libraries found libjpeg headers found libtiff libraries found libtiff headers found FreeType 2 found libx264 libraries missing libx264 headers found libuuid libraries found libuuid headers found mjpegtools missing libfftw3 libraries found libfftw3 headersfound liba52 librariesfound liba52 headers found libmp3lame librariesfound libmp3lame headers found libsndfile librariesfound libsndfile headers found libfaac libraries found libfaac headers found libfaad libraries missing libfaad headers missing Summary of optional components: ESD subsystem found ESD (Enlightenment Sound Daemon) is enabled ALSA subsystem found ALSA is enabled libraw1394 found libiec61883 found libavc1394 librariesfound libavc1394 headers found librom1394 librariesfound librom1394 headers found Firewire is enabled OpenGL 2.0 librariesfound Hardware acceleration using OpenGL 2.0 is enabled WARNING: Mandatory components are missing; compilation may fail! If I try and install mjpegtools-libs I get... [EMAIL PROTECTED] hvirtual]# yum install mjpegtools-libs Loading installonlyn plugin Setting up Install Process Parsing package install arguments livna 100% |=| 2.1 kB00:00 Resolving Dependencies -- Running transaction check --- Package mjpegtools-libs.i386 0:1.8.0-7.lvn7 set to be updated -- Processing Dependency: libquicktime = 0.9.8 for package: mjpegtools-libs -- Processing Dependency: libquicktime.so.0 for package: mjpegtools-libs -- Restarting Dependency Resolution with new changes. -- Running transaction check --- Package libquicktime.i386 0:0.9.10-4.lvn7 set to be updated -- Processing Dependency: libx264.so.54 for package: libquicktime -- Processing Dependency: libavcodec.so.51 for package: libquicktime -- Processing Dependency: libavutil.so.49 for package: libquicktime -- Restarting Dependency Resolution with new changes. -- Running transaction check --- Package ffmpeg-libs.i386 0:0.4.9-0.37.20070503.lvn7 set to be updated -- Processing Dependency: faad2 2.5 for package: ffmpeg-libs -- Processing Dependency: libx264.so.54 for package: ffmpeg-libs -- Finished Dependency Resolution Error: Missing Dependency: libx264.so.54 is needed by package libquicktime Error: Missing Dependency: faad2 2.5 is needed by package ffmpeg-libs Error: Missing Dependency: libx264.so.54 is needed by package ffmpeg-libs [EMAIL PROTECTED] hvirtual]# pwd /home/ann/bin/cinelerra/hvirtual [EMAIL PROTECTED] hvirtual]# If I try and install faad2 from here ftp://fr.rpmfind.net/linux/freshrpms/fedora/linux/1/faad2/faad2-2.0-1.fr.i386.rpm I get told a newer version is already installed so do I need a softlink and what is the name of the file cinelerra is looking for? And as for libx264 !?! I think it's partly installed if that possible. I read something about making soft links to 3 files but I only had 2 of them, x264.a isn't there. [EMAIL PROTECTED] hvirtual]# locate libx264 /home/john/bin/cinelerra/cinelerra-2.1 /quicktime/x264.052906/build/win32/libx264.dsp /home/johnn/bin/cinelerra/cinelerra-2.1 /quicktime/x264.052906/build/win32/libx264.vcproj /usr/lib/libx264.so.55 /usr/local/lib/libx264.so.55 #this is a soft link [EMAIL PROTECTED] hvirtual]# locate x264.h /home/john/bin/cinelerra/cinelerra-2.1/quicktime/x264.052906/x264.h /usr/local/include/x264.h #this is a soft link [EMAIL PROTECTED] hvirtual]# _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
[CinCVS] Metaclips
One idea is (1) a rendering option to render to a 'metaclip' and then (2) using the metaclip as an input on a second timeline. The first step is like rendering in a lossless codec except no rendering takes place at this stage, it all happens in the second step. This would make it a lot simpler to manage complex editing and compositing sequences without losing any quality resolution. One can re-edit the metaclip without impacting other parts of the resulting video. This is a concept taken from blender that might be useful for Cinelerra in a future interface enhancement. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Some Ficl documentation for you
You need to have a rigourous understanding of how to ensure correctness. You need to have the right disciplines in place, notably in access to shared data. (Does anyone know how Cinelerra does that now?) Othewise it gets too hard to debug. But it's not that anyone likes threads, it's more that they are a necessity. I don't think file loading needs a separate thread, except for clips and other assets, which take a long time to load. On 25/08/07, Mark Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hopefully, you just need FICL running in its own thread. You guys really like your threads, n'est pas? I have a feeling that they'll be too hard for me to understand, though. I like to approach things from the angle of simplicity and debuggability. I think debuggability is really important. An application which can't be debugged Actually, I've been boning up on the difference between threads and processes. From what I gather, threads use the same address space (if that's the right terminology), whereas processes are very much a client-server model. Processes may be inappropriate for FICL, because I think it will need access to everything. However, the general idea of using processes seems a good one - and this is something that I'd like the guys working on cin3 to think about. Thinking in terms of processes seems to encourage thinness in the API - and it might also help modularise things and think in terms of protocols. Take file loading, for example. Does it even need to be built into Cinelerra, for example? If you could separate it out of the main app, then you could get benefits of independent testing from a command line - because it's a client-server relationship. And if there's a bug in the file loader, it can't bring down the whole app. Good things seem to flow from the idea of using processes. Just my 2c. Please don't flame me if my technical details are wrong - I freely admit I'm new to all this. -- Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it nowhttp://uk.answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEydmViNG02BF9TAzIxMTQ3MTcxOTAEc2VjA21haWwEc2xrA3RhZ2xpbmU . -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Interlacing
ok, a change of quality then. If you do it deliberately, it's not a defect. But if you can tell the difference between 24f/s and 50f/s (it depends on age, sobriety etc), then I would think 50f/s was better for most purposes. On 25/08/07, Derek McTavish Mounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't really know where the reducing quality bit came from, because that's not what I was talking about 'tall. I was talking about 24 frame per second second progressive footage, which hasn't anything to do with technical quality. -=Derek P.S. Good idea, this new thread. A bit off topic the last... Interesting idea, reducing quality as an artistic effect. I suppose some people indeed might want it, so we could make it an option. Not for me though. On 25/08/07, Derek McTavish Mounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm know, I'm brining this thread monstrously off topic, but there are a few more things I need to respond to... :) To me, the distance theory sounds too much like rationalisation. Think about it this way: The smooth motion of 50hz and 60hz is far closer to what our eyes see in reality, so when we see that smooth video on screen, our minds bring us more directly and literally into what we see; we are the camera. Artistically, as a director, you don't want that most often. Proper camera shots are always symbolic and meaningful, and truthfully, quite far from reality. The audience isn't literally directly above the action, looking down in a constrained and ordered view, but constrained and ordered --that's what the audience is supposed to feel about what they're seeing. When the smooth motion brings the audience into the lens --oops, no, stop flying. For decades, smooth motion and low production values went hand in hand. True true, the inexpensiveness of video allowed many people who shouldn't be behind a camera to be, and the efforts they created were horrifying. Are still horrifying. But have you ever seen a something done with high production values shot on video --even just one shot or two out of many 24p? It's a very strange moment when that smooth motion kicks in. More than just the sudden contrast from the 24p, that literalness of you are the lens is aesthetically inappropriate in almost all cases. Again, I'm not at all arguing that Cinelerra needs to work well with interlaced video; it does indeed. I'm just, at this point, trying to stress the validity of 24p. And, by the way, that's a very interesting though about the split-the-fields-into-frames-apply-fx-then-back (errh?) you had. I've thought of splitting the fields into frames for slow motion purposes, but never going back to interlaced. In fact, I've never seen this technique in any existing editor, no matter the level of professionalism or cost. 'twould be an interesting and notable contribution to Cinelerra. -=Derek ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Some of my thoughts on scripting
The last time I checked, C++ had stricter type checking. But yes, I am
recommending a C-style interface.
On 24/08/07, David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 12:41 +0800, Martin Ellison wrote:
C and C++ have a large common subset; perhaps you could use that.
Haha, nice one :)
The common subset between C and C++ is pretty much C, isn't it?
Cheers
David
PS - shouldn't give up on the basic OO of C++. OO is not a panacea for
large projects, but if well used can take away a lot of pain.
On 24/08/07, David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-23 at 19:57 +, Mark Carter wrote:
It's also why I'm trying to convince people to stop using C
++ - C is
just easier to interface with.
I find it way easier to wrap over C than C++, but with the
cost of
implementing stuff in C just to benefit wrapping, it's like
the tail
trying to wag the dog.
C++, if done right, offers enormous programming leverage:
- more readable code
- more maintainable code
- get more done in much less lines
- easy to extend
- eliminates a lot of menial and 'yak shaving' boilerplating
- create very satisfying and intuitive abstractions
But there's the wrapping problem - and admittedly C++ is a
hell of a lot
harder to wrap than C.
There are two solutions:
1. Throw the header files at SWIG. By default, SWIG creates a
plain-C
wrapper that in many cases Just Works (TM). It's not hard
to dress
up this layer within the scripting language, eg neat
classes
done as Pyrex extension classes for the Python wrapper. Or
in FICL,
do thin primitives over the top of the plain-C wrapper,
then
write some nice Forth words to get the desired
abstraction.
or
2. Hand-code a C wrapper on top. Pass all object instances
in/out as
opaque void pointers. Write attribute getter and setter
funcs and
method dispatchers.
Example:
class Fred {
Fred();
~Fred();
int foo;
char *bar(float f);
}
wraps in C as:
extern C {
void *Fred_new() {
return (void *)(new Fred());
}
void Fred_del(void *pFred) {
((Fred *)pFred)-~Fred();
}
int Fred_get_foo(void *pFred) {
return ((Fred *)pFred)-foo;
}
void Fred_set_foo(void *pFred, int foo) {
((Fred *)pFred)-foo = foo;
}
char *Fred_bar(void *pFred, float f) {
return ((Fred *)pFred)-bar(f);
}
}
Cheers
David
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Re: [CinCVS] Some of my thoughts on scripting
C and C++ are almost convertible, in that in C++ one can write myPicture-colourBalance(rValue, gValue, bValue); // random example while in C one would write colourBalance(myPicture, rValue, gValue, bValue); which is also good C++. Most interface things can be translated in this way. The only real difference is polymorphism ie what if myPicture could be either a JpegPicturePtr, a TiffPicturePtr or a PngPicturePtr? In C++ one would subclass all these from PicturePtr and create a virtual method colourBalance. In C one does have several options (eg variants) but they do not translate well into C++. As to Mark's earlier comments about 'lots of switches', his example is not the best in that somewhere in a C++ program one does need some switching code for creating objects of the concrete class. But anyway, what is wrong with switches? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Some Ficl documentation for you
Hopefully, you just need FICL running in its own thread. On 25/08/07, David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-08-24 at 22:36 +, Mark Carter wrote: Not to mention the fact that threads scare me bigtime. From what I've heard, I'm right to be scared. Threads are like cars. Incredibly handy, even life-saving if used right, but potentially devastating if not respected. FICL has excellent thread support, just as long as you plan the threads carefully to avoid train-wrecks, such as multiple threads hitting the same stack at the same time. I've done a fair bit of multi-thread programming in FICL, and it's worked out fine. A separate window is a logical idea, with an eval on enter handler. Don't forget, though, that you can't guarantee how long a word takes to execute. It could load other files, and conceivably do just about anything. Imagine having a word like render-project, for example. You could define a convention, and document it to the user and make it their responsibility. For instance, tell them that their words should return quickly, and if they can't, then to spawn a thread. To spawn a FICL thread, you need to: 1. create a new FiclVM for that thread's exclusive use 2. transfer any required arguments off the main thread's stack and onto the stack of the thread's FiclVM 3. spawn a pthread, passing it a pointer to the new FiclVM and a pointer to whatever needs to be executed, whether an arbitrary text command line or a pointer to a primitive function 4. Have some synchronisation, such as a global bool flag, so the main thread can test if the child thread is done Cheers David - Original Message From: David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no Sent: Friday, 24 August, 2007 10:54:35 PM Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Some Ficl documentation for you On Sat, 2007-08-25 at 09:42 +1200, David McNab wrote: In a multi-thread environment such as Cin, you have to change from the 'read/eval loop' to an 'eval-on-Enter handler'. Oh, I forgot to mention - FICL supports this perfectly. It has a function to evaluate an arbitrary text command. Cheers David ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra __ Yahoo! Answers - Get better answers from someone who knows. Try it now. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCVS] Interlacing
Interesting idea, reducing quality as an artistic effect. I suppose some people indeed might want it, so we could make it an option. Not for me though. On 25/08/07, Derek McTavish Mounce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm know, I'm brining this thread monstrously off topic, but there are a few more things I need to respond to... :) To me, the distance theory sounds too much like rationalisation. Think about it this way: The smooth motion of 50hz and 60hz is far closer to what our eyes see in reality, so when we see that smooth video on screen, our minds bring us more directly and literally into what we see; we are the camera. Artistically, as a director, you don't want that most often. Proper camera shots are always symbolic and meaningful, and truthfully, quite far from reality. The audience isn't literally directly above the action, looking down in a constrained and ordered view, but constrained and ordered --that's what the audience is supposed to feel about what they're seeing. When the smooth motion brings the audience into the lens --oops, no, stop flying. For decades, smooth motion and low production values went hand in hand. True true, the inexpensiveness of video allowed many people who shouldn't be behind a camera to be, and the efforts they created were horrifying. Are still horrifying. But have you ever seen a something done with high production values shot on video --even just one shot or two out of many 24p? It's a very strange moment when that smooth motion kicks in. More than just the sudden contrast from the 24p, that literalness of you are the lens is aesthetically inappropriate in almost all cases. Again, I'm not at all arguing that Cinelerra needs to work well with interlaced video; it does indeed. I'm just, at this point, trying to stress the validity of 24p. And, by the way, that's a very interesting though about the split-the-fields-into-frames-apply-fx-then-back (errh?) you had. I've thought of splitting the fields into frames for slow motion purposes, but never going back to interlaced. In fact, I've never seen this technique in any existing editor, no matter the level of professionalism or cost. 'twould be an interesting and notable contribution to Cinelerra. -=Derek ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Some of my thoughts on scripting
C and C++ have a large common subset; perhaps you could use that.
On 24/08/07, David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, 2007-08-23 at 19:57 +, Mark Carter wrote:
It's also why I'm trying to convince people to stop using C++ - C is
just easier to interface with.
I find it way easier to wrap over C than C++, but with the cost of
implementing stuff in C just to benefit wrapping, it's like the tail
trying to wag the dog.
C++, if done right, offers enormous programming leverage:
- more readable code
- more maintainable code
- get more done in much less lines
- easy to extend
- eliminates a lot of menial and 'yak shaving' boilerplating
- create very satisfying and intuitive abstractions
But there's the wrapping problem - and admittedly C++ is a hell of a lot
harder to wrap than C.
There are two solutions:
1. Throw the header files at SWIG. By default, SWIG creates a plain-C
wrapper that in many cases Just Works (TM). It's not hard to dress
up this layer within the scripting language, eg neat classes
done as Pyrex extension classes for the Python wrapper. Or in FICL,
do thin primitives over the top of the plain-C wrapper, then
write some nice Forth words to get the desired abstraction.
or
2. Hand-code a C wrapper on top. Pass all object instances in/out as
opaque void pointers. Write attribute getter and setter funcs and
method dispatchers.
Example:
class Fred {
Fred();
~Fred();
int foo;
char *bar(float f);
}
wraps in C as:
extern C {
void *Fred_new() {
return (void *)(new Fred());
}
void Fred_del(void *pFred) {
((Fred *)pFred)-~Fred();
}
int Fred_get_foo(void *pFred) {
return ((Fred *)pFred)-foo;
}
void Fred_set_foo(void *pFred, int foo) {
((Fred *)pFred)-foo = foo;
}
char *Fred_bar(void *pFred, float f) {
return ((Fred *)pFred)-bar(f);
}
}
Cheers
David
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IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] A vision of Cinelerra v3 (hopefully)
The test of strict separation is if you can test each part independently. On 20/08/07, David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...I do hope Mark is implementing the strict separation between FICL extension and C API as recommended. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
[CinCVS] How big is the cinelerra code base?
Cinelerra itself has 175,751 lines of code. Then there is something called guicast; is that part of cinelerra itself? It's about 40,437 lines. Then there are all the plugins. They in total are about 106,468 lines of code. Does anyone know which other bits are also part of cinelerra itself? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Fancy Titles HowTo
You can always use Blender. On 21/08/07, Aaron Newcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the write up David! I have been doing my credits all in the GIMP, but it is difficult to get things centered correctly. Doing them in OO.org first takes care of that nicely. Even if it adds a few extra steps it is probably worth it. On 8/20/07, David McNab [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, After struggling with the limitations of the 'Title' plugin, I just tried out an idea for getting more professional-looking scrolling credits working in Cin (came to me when I was drifting off to sleep last night). Straightforward process, using 100% open source tools and a simple 3-step procedure. I've written it up as an HTML 'HOWTO' page and stuck it up at: www.freenet.org.nz/misc/cintitles The page includes links to all the demo files involved. For basic scrolling animation of formatted titles, it's way easier than doing it in Flash (eek! proprietary!), converting and importing into Cin. Enjoy! Cheers David ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Thanks, Aaron Newcomb http://www.thesourceshow.org http://www.opennewsshow.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Relative Paths?
I have dealt with this by editing the EDL. You need to do a global change to convert all cases of the old path to the new path. On 19/08/07, leandro ribeiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is this issue going to be adressed in recent times? It's kind of anoying not to be able to keep a tidy folder scheme :\ Sáb, 2007-08-18 às 22:20 +0200, Johannes Sixt escreveu: On Saturday 18 August 2007 21:49, Raffaella Traniello wrote: Can I change Cinelerra in order to use relative paths? Paths are recorded as absolute when the .xml file is not in the folder that contains all the media and as relative when the project share the folder with the media. If I save as... my absolute pathed project locating it in the media folder, paths will be written in the EDL as relative. Similarly I can transform paths from relative to absolute by saving as... my project in any location outside the media folder. You are right. Thanks for correcting me. -- Hannes ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? proposal for CinelerraCV 2 maintenace
Could you explain this more? svn allows branching, so why not just create as many development branches as required and work there? I do not know git, so could you please explain what git has over svn? (Not intended as an attack). On 16/08/07, Christian Thaeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... 2) Stop using SVN Even if commit access is generously handled to people who ask, it's still a big blocker as I explained earlier. As long we have only one linear history everything has global impact and there is no easy way to add new features without running in troubles. There is no easy way that small groups of people try and review new features, no easy way to get good but intrusive new ideas back into CV. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone? proposal for CinelerraCV 2 maintenace
On 16/08/07, Herman Robak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Adam would not be able to fix this in a reasonable timeframe, even if he was given an exhaustive TODO list. Neither will we, unless a lot of the underlying code is redone to support all the stuff that an NLE and compositor of the future should support. It has to be maintainable, extensible and reasonably layered. It needs to be elegant and beautiful, too, or too few coders will be attracted to it. Doesa anyone know Adam's views on the questions that we have been discussing recently? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Concatenate tracks
I suppose the idea must be to take all your clips and make them into one long movie in one click, presumably so you play through them and see what you have. Never tried it though. On 15/08/07, Raffaella Traniello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all! Due probably to a sunstroke in this Italian summer, I decided to try the 'Concatenate tracks' operation from the 'Tracks' menu. Since I was not familiar with it, I read the manual: Concatenate tracks is more complicated. It takes every playable track and concatenates it to the end of the first armed tracks. If there are two armed tracks followed by two playable tracks, the concatenate operation puts the two playable tracks after the two armed tracks. If there are three playable tracks instead, two tracks are put after the armed tracks and a third track is put on the end of the first armed track. The destination track wraps around until all the playable tracks are concatenated. It took me a *long* time to figure it out. (Please be surprised) ;-) I'm still quite perplexed. I wonder: - if I miss something - when I'm going to need this operation, in which context - if this operation actually affects tracks or rather assets (especially looking at its behaviour as insertion strategy) - if this is just a very particular kind of copy-and-paste operation - if this menu entry would be more appropriate in the Edit Menu - if the name 'Concatenate tracks' is misleading - if a plain 'Concatenate' could be a better name for this operation - if the Manual has been correctly modified So far I had never encountered in the Manual the concept of what I called 'set of tracks', meaning the group of tracks that contains an asset (e.g. one video track and two audio tracks for a standard camcorder clip, two audio tracks for a standard audio clip, eccetera eccetera...). I think it is quite a basic concept during any Load operation. ... or is all this just a sunstroke effect? :-) Ciao! Raffaella 7.6 Manipulating tracks http://cvs.cinelerra.org/docs/cinelerra_cv_manual_en.html#SEC108 Improving terminology http://cvs.cinelerra.org/docs/wiki/doku.php?id=improving_terminology ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
Free/open source projects that succeed seem to follow the pattern of moving as much functionality as possible out into plugins/modules that can be decoupled from the core code. This makes for something of a Darwinian development process as individual plugins can be written, debugged put into the optional list, tried out, used, and ultimately replaced. Also it makes it easier to code, test and understand the code. I would suggest: - have test benches for plugins so they can be debugged and tested independently of the main program. - use Cinelerra-independent standard interfaces if possible, so that the plugins can be reused in other projects, and other project's plugins can be used in Cinelerra. Generally go for standard everything (and cross-platform) if at all possible, you get more people who already know it: - C or C++, python, ant, wxWidgets (what does Cinelerra use at the moment?) - there is a standard Edit Decision List (EDL) format out there; could Cinelerra use that too? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] WHERE CINELERRA IS GOING? ...anyone?
I should also add, in regard to the icon controversy: The user interface should be organized around the user's workflow (that is, the workflow of whoever is editing the video using Cinelerra) . The important thing is that they are able to manipulate the workspace (the media assets, the clips, the EDL) in the way most conducive to producing the right output. The visual appearance of the interface is important to the extent that it facilitates or hinders that purpose eg can the user find thae function that they need by looking at the icons? is the interface clear and easy to read? -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] A working scripting interface
Good idea, my native language is Perl. On 12/08/07, mark carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 08:12 +1200, David McNab wrote: What I would strongly suggest is that as you flesh this out, split your interface into 2 layers: 1. lower-level C API, abstract, simple, completely free of any forth-isms 2. FICL layer - primitives as thin as possible, just taking args off the stack, calling the respective API function, and putting any relevant return values on the stack Who knows, I may even go one better and write the code in an intermediate layer which spits out back ends - one of them C, one of them ficl, and make it generic enough that you can tailor it. Writing the generator in Python might be a good bet, because every developer has python ;) I'm aware of SWIG - never used it though. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Open Movie Editor
Douglas, I can say Cinelerra works for me... and does not crash that often. Anyway save your work regularly, and use a version control system such as subversion so you can go back to a previous version. Persist and you will find Cinelerra does the job. You don't need to be a code monkey. On 11/08/07, Raffaella Traniello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 12:53 -0400, Douglas Pollard wrote: Well folks, you have convinced me that Cinelerra is not for the someone like me that just wants to make a video. The real problem is that I am not interested in code, programs or anything else having to do with computers other than doing what I want to do. Any way, I am pretty well convinced that Linux holds nothing for me that I am willing to devote the needed time to. Doug, I perfectly understand the need to use our precious Time at best. I wish you can find the program that fits your needs. I hope you'll still be around. I would like to watch your movies (Cin made or not). Good luck! :-) Raffaella PS: No luck with IRC clients? If you are curious, the discussions are recorded here: http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] state of the HD Linux union ?
One question: are there any HD formats that use DVD physically? Or do we need to go to the new HD-DVD or Bluray formats ie buy a new burner? On 10/08/07, Florin Andrei [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's been some years since Linux got a complete set of tools to capture, edit, process, author and burn SD video, from digital sources to DVD storage. But what is the current status of the High Def tools? If I'm not mistaken, the latest dvgrab can capture an HDV stream. Which HD cameras are usable as an HD source for Linux? Not just with dvgrab, but in general. What are the HD formats that can be used on Linux? What are the options for editing? (Cinelerra? Jahshaka?) Authoring? Burning HD disks? -- Florin Andrei http://florin.myip.org/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] Req: Cinelerra plugin architecture
It would be nice to have a common plugin interface that could work across Cinelerra, Blender, Kino etc etc, so that the work of writing plugins could be decoupled. On 08/08/07, mark carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2007-08-07 at 18:26 +0200, Jonas Wulff wrote: Unfourtunately every major change of the codebase makes it harder to re-merge with the 'official' cinelerra version. That of course leads to the questions how important that *really* is, considering that cinCV seems to be the version more commonly used... Look at it this way ... if you're not prepared for the code to divide, then what's the point of having a fork? Forks are bad, m'kay. I would argue that everyone's interest would be best served if one were to be subordinate to the other. Is HV happy to incorporate all of CVs patches into his code? Or, would HV be happy to submit patches to CV, and use CV? If he thought the quality of development of CV sufficiently high, then he would in effect be doing himself a favour - because he can submit patches, and let everyone else take care of the problem of integration. This business of forking is creating a lot of unnecessary work for everyone. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) IT: http://methodsupport.com Personal: http://thereisnoend.org
Re: [CinCVS] region free video?
As far as I know, home-made videos are region-free. On 02/08/07, Randolph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am interested in burning a region free video DVD. Unfortunately, I do not know the parameters that go into making such a video. Could someone please educate and/or enlighten me to the workings of a region free video and how to make one. I have done searches on google, but I'm not getting a straight answer. At the moment, I have an mpeg 4 type .mov video that I've created in cinelerra. I've grinded out several formats of this file using ffmpeg. I am wondering if that film-dvd parameter in ffmpeg is the one that makes a region free video. Then I could just arrange and burn in qDVDauthor If that's not the solution, please let me know what must be done. Thanks in advance, Randolph ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] [Bug 435] New: crash attempting to start cinelerra (while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libavcodec.so.51 )
Try searching the list; also do you have the file /usr/lib/libavcodec.so.51 ? On 24/07/07, Daniel Jircik [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: try this open terminal cd to ~/hvirtual and run ldconfig On 7/23/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://bugs.cinelerra.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435 Summary: crash attempting to start cinelerra (while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libavcodec.so.51 ) Product: Cinelerra Version: 2.1 Platform: Macintosh OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: critical Priority: Medium Component: Building AssignedTo: cinelerra@skolelinux.no ReportedBy: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Successfully installed cinelerra on a ppc running Fedora Core 6, but when i try to launch the application I get this error: - cinelerra: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libavcodec.so.51: R_PPC_REL24 relocation at 0x30076320 for symbol `av_free' out of range - Reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. Get a PPC Mac 2. Install FC6 3. Get Cinelerra, build it and try to launch it. Actual Results: The program doesn´t start. Expected Results: The program to start. -- Configure bugmail: http://bugs.cinelerra.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra ignoring locale settings
Rafaella, try doing echo lang=$LANG language=$LANGUAGE and checking that you have the expected values. It may be that you need to say export LANG=whatever export LANGUAGE=whatever in your script (are you using bash?) ie each variable in a different command. Io non ho capito cinellera é una donna... questa é perché elle é cosí... On 20/07/07, Raffaella Traniello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Jean-Luc! Your words seems to contain an interesting truth, but I haven't managed to fully understand it (yet). I've looked for answers in the ML archives, in the Manual, on the web but I'm still quite confused, lost in a merry-go-round of identifiers. Holy Manual says: Cinelerra language settings are normally read from your GNU/Linux language settings. Evidently I'm not normal. On my Ubuntu, setting the session language to Italian at log-in doesn't make Cin speak Italian. ~$ locale LANG=it_IT.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=it_IT.UTF-8 But If I run LANG=it_IT.UTF8 cinelerra in an Italian session, she speaks Italian. ~$ locale LANG=it_IT.UTF-8 LANGUAGE=it_IT.UTF-8 And if I run LANG=it_IT.UTF8 cinelerra she speaks Italian as well but I get: ~$ locale LANG=it_IT.UTF8 LANGUAGE=it_IT.UTF-8 Can a dash make the difference? Looking at ~$ locale -a ... it_IT.utf8 ... it looks my computer is quite flexible on dashes and case (for once!) ;-) From the Holy Manual again: To run Cinelerra on a language different than the one selected on your system just change the LANG and LANGUAGE environment variables. For example, open a shell and type: export LANG=es_ES LANGUAGE=es_ES, then run cinelerra from the same shell. It will open set on the Spanish language. She won't. In an English Session ~$ export LANG=es_ES LANGUAGE=es_ES makes Cin speak English. ~$ locale LANG=es_ES LANGUAGE=es_ES Curiously if I do: ~$ LANG=it_IT.utf8 my Cin speaks Spanish but with wrong display of special characters (I don't have any Spanish listed by ~$ locale -a). ~$ locale LANG=it_IT.utf8 LANGUAGE=es_ES Evenctually, with ~$ LANGUAGE=it_IT:it Cin does speak Italian. ~$ locale LANG=it_IT.utf8 LANGUAGE=it_IT:it In brief: ~$ LANGUAGE=it_IT:it LANG=it_IT.utf8- works ~$ export LANG=it_IT LANGUAGE=it_IT - doesn't work So either the Manual or me needs fixing. Or both! ;-) Ciao Raffaella Il giorno ven, 20/07/2007 alle 09.11 +0200, Jean-Luc Coulon (f5ibh) ha scritto: Cinelerra IIRC doesnt manage utf-8 as it is supposed to be. You need to generate on your system both the utf-8 and the related iso-8859-1 (or -15) locales. In this case, it accepts the locale setting even if it is utf-8 ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] Firewire (IEEE1394) broken in Fedora 7
John, Fortunately, there is a kernel available so I do not need to recompile one. I am sure that recompiling the kernel myself is good for my soul, but unfortunately I have other things that are higher priority like making videos, and the one time I tried I got lots of build errors. I do use the nVidia drivers as blender needs open gl or something and the free drivers do not do this, but this means that I rebuild the drivers each time I upgrade the kernel. On 19/07/07, John Haiducek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jul 17, 2007, at 11:13, Martin Ellison wrote: There is a work-around. One needs to install another kernel. This will probably break other things eg kernel modules. It's all pretty horrible. Compiling a new kernel doesn't overwrite the old kernel or its modules, and unless you have some commercial binary kernel modules (like ATI or NVidia drivers or something) you should be able to compile all your existing modules in the new kernel so there's little that would break. If you've never compiled your own kernel, I humbly suggest you dive in and try it. It's a lot of work, but it's good for you, and the kernel sources usually come with some nifty user-friendly tools so you will probably be able to do it without editing any config files or anything. John Haiducek ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] Firewire (IEEE1394) broken in Fedora 7
There is a work-around. One needs to install another kernel. This will probably break other things eg kernel modules. It's all pretty horrible. On 17/07/07, Aaron Newcomb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry, but I have not installed F7 yet. When I do I will give this a try. Thanks for the heads up! On 7/16/07, Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not strictly a Cinelerra issue, but I have discovered that Fedora 7's new improved IEEE1394 support does not actually work. The new kernel does not support the old modules ieee1394 etc and the new modules cause a kernel panic. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- Thanks, Aaron Newcomb http://www.thesourceshow.org http://www.opennewsshow.org ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
[CinCVS] Firewire (IEEE1394) broken in Fedora 7
Not strictly a Cinelerra issue, but I have discovered that Fedora 7's new improved IEEE1394 support does not actually work. The new kernel does not support the old modules ieee1394 etc and the new modules cause a kernel panic. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
[CinCVS] Interesting page on video conversion http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/
http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~f76998/video/conversion/ about conversion between video formats eg PAL and NTSC, may be of interest -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] cinlerra resources
.bcast contains some indexes into your source video file so Cinelerra can find each frame. I don't think this is documented in any great detail. The Cinelerra documentation is in several wikis and then there is always the source code. On 05/07/07, Kurt Georg Hooss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi doug, what you seem to need is some basic knowledge about using a unix system, like linux... i try to explain what you did, on the command line. $HOME is a short form for your home directory, typically the full path would be something like /home/douglas or so (if douglas is your username on the system). expanding this, $HOME/.bcast is a hidden subdirectory to that, again the full path would then be /home/douglas/.bcast. this is the directory where cinelerra stores internal information. (in earlier days, cinelerra was named broadcast 2000, thus .bcast). the command line ls $HOME/.bcast invokes the ls program to list you all the files in that directory. call it with option -a to see also hidden files (with dot) and with option -l to see useful information about all files: ls -a -l $HOME/.bcast, or simply ls -al $HOME/.bcast to see information about only one specific file, give its name: ls -l $HOME/.bcast/Cinelerra_rc. to remove it, invoke the rm command. because, sometimes, cinelerra's internal information gets messed up... but generally i think it is heavily recommendable to read a unix, or linux textbook, at least on a basic user level. i mean, it's free but freedom requires ability to move... :-) good luck georg On Wednesday, 4. July 2007 22:46:53 Doug Pollard wrote: Johannes Sixt wrote: On Wednesday 04 July 2007 21:07, Doug Pollard wrote: Johannes Sixt wrote: The command is: ls $HOME/.bcast/cinelerra_rc (note the ls at the beginning, which means list). The command to remove is rm $HOME/.bcast/cinelerra_rc Of course, you can achieve the same using some file manipulation GUI, like konqueror. But those usually hide the directories (and files) that begin with a dot '.', so you must type the directory name (.bcast) into some address bar to force the tool to list the contents. Didn't know if I needed to be root to do this or not. Here is what I got in return. Don't be root! [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ ls $home/.bcast/cinelerra_rc ls: /.bcast/cinelerra_rc: No such file or directory Oops, it's Cinelerra_rc (capital 'C'). And $HOME, not $home. (Linux command line does what you tell it to do, and doesn't try to be too clever - uppercase and lowercase matters!) But try it with your file manager first. -- Hannes ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra Thanks very much worked like a charm after rebooting. I understand that I removed .bcast/ Cinelerra but don't really know how that cured the problem. Can you give a short explantion or a place to read on the subject. Thanks a lot, Doug ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- dr.k.g.hooss schoepfung wandel wissenschaftliche medienberatung breite strasse 6-8, d-23617 luebeck www.schoepfung-und-wandel.de ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] final video doesn't respect the cutting of the scenes
You can use markers to split the rendered output into more than one file. But the DVD navigation will need to be added as Johannes says in the DVD authoring stage. On 04/07/07, Johannes Sixt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 03 July 2007 18:36, fede wrote: After some video editing, I've realized that the final video has a different cut of the scenes. I mean: when I load the files in Cinelerra (already cut as I want with Kino) the cut is ok; but after the rendering, the generation of .mpeg and of .iso, something goes wrong. When I say cut of the scenes I mean the scenes I can skip with dvd player's remote control: for example, from the first to the fifth song of a concert. A cut in Cinelerra has nothing to do with a chapter on a DVD (that's what I think you mean). Cinelerra can only render the video (and audio) streams, but chapter marks are established with some dvd authoring tool, outside of Cinelerra. -- Hannes ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
[CinCVS] Still have startup errors
An old error (Cinelerra crash at startup from 05 Apr 2007*) *is still occurring; I have done a clean compile and it still happens. I am getting errors that indicate a missing Defaults in several plugins. I notice that the ChromaKeyHSV class does have a defaults member The actual error message (at startup) is: PluginServer::open_plugin: /usr/local/lib/cinelerra/1080to480.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8DefaultsC1EPc PluginServer::open_plugin: /usr/local/lib/cinelerra/chromakey_hsv.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8DefaultsC1EPc PluginServer::open_plugin: /usr/local/lib/cinelerra/linearize.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8DefaultsC1EPc PluginServer::open_plugin: /usr/local/lib/cinelerra/seltempavg.so: undefined symbol: _ZN8DefaultsC1EPc On the other hand the ChromaKey plugin has the same member and it is not causing any error message. Why those four? This is the current SVN version, on x86_64 and Fedora 7. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] Video Effects and Video Transitions
Yes, Blender measures its output in seconds and frames (so to speak) while Cinelerra measures its output in minutes and seconds So use Blender for the special effects that you cannot do in Cinelerra and then import the result into Cinelerra. On 28/06/07, John Haiducek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 26, 2007, at 23:03, Martin Ellison wrote: Blender has a compositor, effects system etc that is more flexible (the 'nodes' sytem) but there is a lot to learn before it is useful. See http://blender.org. My own experience is that cinelerra is faster for previewing one's work than Blender's compositor. Blender's compositor doesn't have anything like real-time playback...although it probably can match cinelerra when it comes to rendering time. And with Blender's compositor every compositing or transition effect requires a new track...it's never as simple as dragging a transition effect onto the boundary between two clips. Martin's right about the flexibility though...you can do almost anything with compositing nodes in Blender. John Haiducek -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] Avoiding an error, am I doing this right?
1. what is 'result' coming from? Also, it appears that the eprintf does not
actually display the value of 'result'; so it might need a %i before the
\n and , result on the end.
2. It's not usually a good idea to comment out warnings and error messages;
they are usually there for a reason.
3. as an alternative, try ffmpeg.
On 29/06/07, Bas Alphenaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
Maybe some of you remember me posting a message on this mailinglist
around 2 months ago about converting 1080i HDV to 720p in a format that
Cinelerra can actually read. A few days ago I started messing around
again and I finally found a good way to do this with Mencoder:
mencoder dvgrab-001.m2t -o 720p.avi -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mjpeg
-oac pcm -vf pp=ci,scale=1280:720
I still have to tweak the settings a bit to create MJPEG at the highest
quality (if somebody has tips about this, please tell them!), but
overall I am very pleased with the result. The created file imports
perfectly into Cinelerra, the only thing that bothered me was that
Cinelerra gave this error message randomly while playing the file or
scrubbing through the file in the viewer:
virtual int FileMOV::read_frame(VFrame*):
quicktime_read_frame/quicktime_decode_video failed, result:
So I started searching through the mailinglist to find out what is
causing this error, but I couldn't find anything useful. I also searched
in Bugzilla and found bug #343
(http://bugs.cinelerra.org/show_bug.cgi?id=343), which described exactly
what I was experiencing. I got the feeling that this error was a false
error, because the playback of the sound and video isn't suffering and
it doesn't look like it is skipping frames that it can't read or
something, the playback is very smooth. So I started looking for a way
to disable this error message in the source code. There was a post in
the mailinglist, I don't know which one anymore, that said that the
piece of code that caused this error was in the file
cinelerra/filemov.C. After some searching I finally found it:
if (result)
{
eprintf(quicktime_read_frame/quicktime_decode_video
failed, result:\n);
}
So I just commented out this piece of code and recompiled Cinelerra. Now
Cinelerra doesn't give the error message anymore, and the 720p file I
created works perfectly. But I am still worried if this solution is the
right one, and if the FileMOV error is a bug or if it is a valid
error, any ideas?
By the way, as you can read I have been able to successfully compile
Cinelerra from SVN on Ubuntu Feisty x86_64. It took a couple of days to
figure out how to do it though. I have the idea that some people still
have problems with compiling on this distribution and/or architecture,
because of some messages I read on this mailing list. If you want to
know how I did it, just leave a message and I will post a small tutorial
on this mailing list!
___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra
--
Regards,
Martin
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
[CinCVS] Startup issues
I am getting ~ cinelerra cinelerra: error while loading shared libraries: libavcodec.so.51: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I'v tried installing stuff but the whole RPM/yum thing appears to be broken, all I get is cannot install because messages... Context is x86_64 on Fedora 7. -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] effects are stuck, beginner needs help
Wierd... I can only suggest saving a project as a file and trawling through the XML to see if anything pops out, eg is the effect actually recorded in the XML? You might start with an empty project. On 23/05/07, Randolph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Normally, you can right lick on an effect and it brings up a menu that allows you to remove the effect. But you are saying that you can create a new project and Cinelerra adds the effect without being asked; is that right? Yes, the effects are stuck without my input. Now, I did use these effects when I first started experimenting with Cinelerra. I didn't apply any in and out points with these effects. Now, they keep rendering themselves to all my videos. Perhaps, there is a way to erase these effects or completely reset Cinelerra in a way I have yet to try. Thanks for your input. Regards, Randolph On 21/05/07, Randolph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello, I have Cinelerra 2.0 installed from a debian on Xandros running linux core 2.6.18. I did some experimenting with rendering holographic, inverted, burning tv effects from the video menu. Now these effects are stuck in all the videos that I render. I tried uninstalling Cinelerra, removing the .bcast folder, then reinstalling Cinelerra. Then I tried removing the indexes in the interface under preferences. Cinelerra keeps sticking holographic, inverted, burning tv effects into all of my videos. Please someone help. I have no idea what else to do. Thanks in advance, Randolph ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] Video Metadata
You might look at tools such as ffmpeg or dvdauthor, which both have options for this. On 19/05/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 18 May 2007, Eric Mesa wrote: Is there a menu I haven't found that allows the title, author, and copyright to be set in our video files? I doubt it. Most video formats lack a standard way of recording that. -- Matthew Skala [EMAIL PROTECTED]Embrace and defend. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] [Fwd: Cinelerra Wont Start]
yes, getting the right architecture would be good... On 28/04/07, Frank Mejia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My prcessor is AMD. The package I downloaded is for the i686. I have a i386 processor. Should I download the x86 Debian packages for i386? From: Christian Thaeter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no To: cinelerra@skolelinux.no CC: Frank Mejia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [CinCVS] [Fwd: Cinelerra Wont Start] Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 09:43:41 +0200 Herman Robak wrote: This came to the wrong address... Hi, I just installed cinelerra on ubuntu 7.04 feisty. When I try and run cinelerra, a small window opens and then closes real quick. When I try and run it from the terminal I get this: Cinelerra 2.1CV (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. Compiled on Sun Apr 15 00:09:28 UTC 2007 Cinelerra is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for Cinelerra. Illegal instruction (core dumped) How do I fix this? Please help. Some more people reported this problem, I suspect that the feisty package is accidentally build with the wrong processor optimization flags, pleases verify that or run cinelerra under gdb or valgrind (or perhaps strace) and provide details. Maybe get the source package verify the build instructions (flags/rules) and debuild it by yourself. Please state more details, which arch was the pakcage build for, which is your computers arch (intel? amd? 64bit?...) Christian ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra _ Don't quit your job – Take Classes Online and Earn your Degree in 1 year. Start Today! http://www.classesusa.com/clickcount.cfm?id=866146goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.classesusa.com%2Ffeaturedschools%2Fonlinedegreesmp%2Fform-dyn1.html%3Fsplovr%3D866144 ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] theme S.U.V. not found
That's a link step, so the compiler options are not going to help there. But you might (a) Google for all these messages, (b) check the wikis and (c) trawl through any posts to this list. As I remember I had the same R_X86_64_32S error a few weeks ago. I think I got around it by using the external ffmpeg. On 27/04/07, Graham Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just wanted to point out: the problem of some objects to be liked dynamically but not beeing built with -fPIC is the most common source of build problems on x86_64. I learned to look at this first when problems pop up: are really all (note all) parts to be linked in built with -fPIC ?? I think this is a very likely cause of the build failures (after having exhausted many other possible causes). I wonder where to go looking in terms of downgrading or build my own packages. The external ffmpeg on sid list the following dependencies: libavcodeccvs51 libavformatcvs51 libavutilcvs49 libc6 libfreetype6 libimlib2 libsdl1.2debian libswscalecvs0 I guess the internal ffmpeg relies on some of these progs too. This is another line of re This is the important part. I.e. you should verify in the output of the make command, that you find this sequence of flags really in the generated command invocations somewhere (of courese there are some additional flags and there is the list of libs to include and the path to the source to compile -- but you should find your flags literally in every gcc or g++ invocation. This means esp. that in *every* invocation there is a -fPIC at some point (and no -fpic) I'm learning huge amounts from this exercise - one small step closer to being able to hack on cinelerra! ...but building it would be a good start : p But the problem is allways in the included ffmpeg directory? my problem is in building from the quicktime directory when the link is made to something in the ffmpeg/libavcodec directory. This problem: When I tried these flags after descending into quicktime or ffmpeg directories this caused the build to abort quickly with: gcc: cannot specify -o with -c or -S with multiple files occurs everywhere in the build tree if I use the CFLAGS you specified. Deleting the stray '-' Then you could hand edit the Makefile just in the FFMPEG directory to insert the right CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS (of cours this hand edits are lost as soon as you re-invoke ./configure). yes tried that: *poured over the build output tracking back from the breakpoint to refferred packages and then back again from them. *made some mini Makefiles of my own, fiddling with -prefer-non-pic flags (ie deleted them) when building in the libavcodec/386/ directory *tried deleting DUSE_MMX flags when building in the libavcodec after reading a bit on this thread: On Friday 26 January 2007 09:58, Alexis Ballier wrote..(some stuff about mmx flags sent to ffmpeg with x86_64 builds...) *mostly just confirmed that the CFLAGS and the -fPIC flags seemed to be passed on okay. None of this worked. or changed the final result. Although I've definitely added to my repetoir of techniques. some other stray details: Building with your flags causes the build to break at a slightly different point: .../usr/bin/ld: ffmpeg/libavcodec/.libs/libavcodec.a(simple_idct_mmx.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC ffmpeg/libavcodec/.libs/libavcodec.a(simple_idct_mmx.o): could not read symbols: Bad value... rather than .../usr/bin/ld: ffmpeg/libavcodec/.libs/libavcodec.a(cputest.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC ffmpeg/libavcodec/.libs/libavcodec.a(cputest.o): could not read symbols: Bad value ... Also - the only gcc command not to use the CFLAGS (like -fPIC) which I could find was the one which the program broke on: gcc -shared .libs/atom.o .libs/avcc.o .libs/avi_hdrl.o .libs/avi_idx1.o .libs/avi_movi.o .libs/avi_strl.o .libs/avi_odml.o .libs/avi_ix.o .libs/avi_indx.o .libs/avi_riff.o .libs/cmodel_default.o .libs/cmodel_float.o .libs/cmodel_yuv420p.o .libs/cmodel_yuv422.o .libs/codecs.o .libs/colormodels.o .libs/ctab.o .libs/dinf.o .libs/dref.o .libs/edts.o .libs/elst.o .libs/esds.o .libs/graphics.o .libs/hdlr.o .libs/ima4.o .libs/interlacemodes.o .libs/jpeg.o .libs/libdv.o .libs/libmjpeg.o .libs/matrix.o .libs/mdat.o .libs/mdhd.o .libs/mdia.o .libs/minf.o .libs/moov.o .libs/mp4a.o .libs/mvhd.o .libs/plugin.o .libs/qtcache.o .libs/qtdv.o .libs/qtffmpeg.o .libs/qth264.o .libs/qtpng.o .libs/qtmp3.o .libs/quicktime.o .libs/raw.o .libs/rawaudio.o .libs/rle.o .libs/smhd.o .libs/stbl.o .libs/stco.o .libs/stsc.o .libs/stsd.o .libs/stsdtable.o .libs/stss.o .libs/stsz.o .libs/stts.o .libs/tkhd.o .libs/trak.o .libs/twos.o .libs/udta.o .libs/ulaw.o .libs/util.o .libs/v308.o .libs/v408.o .libs/v410.o .libs/vmhd.o .libs/vbraudio.o .libs/vorbis.o .libs/workarounds.o .libs/yuv2.o .libs/yuv4.o .libs/yv12.o
Re: [CinCVS] missing waveforms; hangs on reload
On 26/04/07, Anne Tennies [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a 2GB Athlon 64 3500+ and I'm running Cin 2.1CV ... I am detecting a pattern here? Regards, Martin
Re: [CinCVS] theme S.U.V. not found
Are you sure about the syntax? I thought one did CXXFLAGS=-fPIC make or CXXFLAGS=-fPIC make On 26/04/07, Graham Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I will try some other CFLAGS but with my lack of skills in this area I will need to be very lucky... Graham E. I tried things like: make CXXFLAGS=-fPIC make OPTCFLAGS=-fPIC make CFLAGS=-fPIC make CXXFLAGS=3D-g -fPIC You can probably tell the level of my skills from the flags I used - these I found from googling ffmpeg /amd64 compile problems. Anwyay the builds were all successful but then when I cd ../.. make the total build fails as before. And now I need to give up again until I receive further advice. Graham E ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] build failure svn 1008
As I have previously posted, I had a similar PIC problem on an AMD on FC6 (ie dual 64/32 bit). So the problem is wider than your specific distro, but seems to be onlly reported for 64 bit. I fixed it by compiling for external ffmpeg. If the linker cannot find g++ -- have you installed gcc properly? On 25/04/07, Graham Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm now working my way through the http://giss.tv/~vale deb packages trying to pick up any missing dependencies. Now that I have changed wrong versions and installed some missing libav* and libav*.dev files (for instance from bugzilla I found out that libavcodec0 is wrong and the libavcodeccvs51 is what I need) I am getting the same result (as per my original post) with or without external ffmpeg. Graham E ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] theme S.U.V. not found
Maybe it's your path. It seems that it is looking in the wrong place. On 25/04/07, Graham Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I run a fresh cinelerra install (had some problems building - see thread '[CinCVS] build failure svn 1008'). There is currently no ~/.bcast directory and I get a crash after a brief flash of life: MWindow::init_theme: theme S.U.V. not found. Running as root makes no difference. I tried copying a ~/.bcast from an old installation and this time it fails with: MWindow::init_theme: theme Blue Dot not found. I have checked and the bluedot and suv themes were installed into /usr/local/lib/cinelerra as expected. Obviously my problems might relate to the options and steps I had to go through to build. Any ideas will be very appreciated. Graham E. ___ Cinelerra mailing list Cinelerra@skolelinux.no https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [CinCVS] strange things..
El Jay, Are you trying to open an EDL (ie cinelerra edl.xml)? Or are you just running cinelerra? What command are you using to start it off? On 13/04/07, Valentina Messeri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Ellison [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha escrito: Are you using any effects or plugins? There seems to be problems with the latest SVN version on 64 bits -- see other posts. yes? didn't know which packet/revision el jay? Could you report bug? I really can't understand...dv avi should works...antwaytry with dv mov, just in case.. :) Vale On 13/04/07, el_jay [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dv.avi captured with DVGRAB on our other computer with Cinelerra this format works fine Valentina Messeri wrote: S'està citant el jay [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ola :) which file (file format y audio/video) a u trying to load? Vale Cinelerra 2.1CV (C) 2006 Heroine Virtual Ltd. Compiled on vie ene 19 18:43:25 CET 2007 Cinelerra is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain conditions. There is absolutely no warranty for Cinelerra. signal_entry: got SIGSEGV my pid=5233 execution table size=16: mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1052 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1056 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1134 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1139 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1142 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1144 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1147 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1151 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 1153 vrender.C: run: 414 vrender.C: process_buffer: 103 vrender.C: process_buffer: 113 vrender.C: run: 416 vrender.C: run: 555 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 808 mwindow.C: load_filenames: 866 signal_entry: lock table size=16 0x12235f0 CWindowTool::input_lock CWindowTool::run 0x1307d20 MainIndexes::input_lock MainIndexes::run 1 0x1386340 ResourceThread::draw_lock ResourceThread::run 0xb322e0 BC_Synchronous::next_command BC_Synchronous::run 0x13c0310 BC_Repeater::pause_lock BC_Repeater::run 0x1309f60 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event 0x13088d0 Cinelerra: Program LoadFileThread::run * 0x1307330 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run 0x1248bd0 TransportQue::output_lock PlaybackEngine::run 0x13088d0 Cinelerra: Program (null) 0x13088d0 Cinelerra: Program BC_Repeater::run 0x105c580 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event 0x1275810 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event 0x13c1cc0 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event 0x124a630 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event 0x11970b0 BC_WindowBase::event_condition BC_WindowBase::get_event BC_Signals::dump_buffers: buffer table size=0 BC_Signals::delete_temps: deleting 0 temp files SigHandler::signal_handler total files=0 Aborted [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ 2007/4/12, muzzol [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 2007/4/12, FotoRebelion [EMAIL PROTECTED]: hello people i just installed cinelerra from ubuntu 64 repositories. on our new kubuntu amd64x2 3800+ asus editing console.. and the strangest thing happens.. when load a file cinelerra closes.. why can these be.?? i´ve looke for error messages or somebody with a similar problem but nothing. can you launch it from console and paste here the output? regards -- ^ ^ O O (_ _) muzzol(a)gmail.com jabber id: muzzol(a)jabber.dk No atribueixis qualitats humanes als ordinadors. No els hi agrada. El gobierno español sólo habla con terroristas, homosexuales y catalanes, a ver cuando se decide a hablar con gente normal Jiménez Losantos echelon spamming bomb terrorism bush aznar teletubbies /echelon spamming http://encosianima.net/ This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Cinelerra mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra ___ Cinelerra mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://encosianima.net/ This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Cinelerra mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra -- Regards, Martin ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
