Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Alex Ferrer]

In general, I try to keep one discrete topic per WikiPage, that way is
easier to agregate just what you need when using wiki links

if not sure, just put it on an existing page, and later I can re-factor
it. 

alx.

Nicolas wrote :
> I'm working on it right now. I don't know how and where to put the 
> "AUDIO DRIVERS" section. Should it be a new wiki page included in 
> another page?
-- 
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Christian Thaeter]

Alex Ferrer wrote:
> Merge with ? 
> 
> By default I am open to any other format or anything that helps...  so
> whatever it is I am for it. 
> 
> On a side note, what I am taking from this thread is:
> 
> A) The wiki is slow - 
> Agree.. I will try to cajole the guys at taxnetusa.com to see if they
> can move us to a faster server .. (I am getting the bandwith for free..
> so I will see what some begging can do ) 
> 
> 2) Having to be online to browse the wiki is a problematic. 
> Again agree..  I will see if the export to HTML plugin can solve that
> one.. It would be great to ship the documentation with the source.
>
> 3) The wiki is broken into too many pages and is hard to navigate.
> Am I reading this right ? if so, anyone can create a single wiki page
> that refers to as many pages as you wish in a single page. basically
> it would be a gigenormous page that should look a lot like Secrets of
> Cinelerra, + pictures
>

Just generating a static version from the wiki often doesnt suffice, a
wiki is at best structured for browsing, often rather unstructured (ok
the cinelerra wiki get this right)

I showed how to solve this on my wiki with a few simple steps:
 - Create a 'hardcopy' page which includes other (less structured) wiki
   pages in a well intended manner.
 - use the wiki's print-view and htmltops (or some similar tool) to
   generate a static version which is useable for printing.

so how does that look like in real (just a example, not complecte content):

The 'hardcopy' page in raw syntax:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra/Print?action=raw

Print-View:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra/Print?action=print

and a example PDF generated from that could look like:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra/Developers?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=text.pdf

there are still some problems, and I use a moin-wiki not a twiki, but
twiki has similar features and the bugs left, formatting glitches can
easily be fixed by some sed-script hooked into the process.

Idea behind would be to generate the static version occationally and
check that into the source tree. The scripts doing this should be part
of the distribution too.

(a static html version with wget or a mirror tool is also easy)


> I think that if I get the server to be faster, it will solve a lot of
> issues. the main one being to attract more people to contribute material
> to the wiki. 

I agree and using a wiki is the simpliest way to attract people.
If we agree on a workflow like I sketched above, it would be nice to
feed 'Secrets of Cinelerra' into the wiki.

Christian

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas]

Hello Alex,

On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 08:06:16PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> Answering my own question ... 
> 
> I just looked at the Secrets of Cinelerra page, and I can see that a lot
> of material has been added. (Specially the HD stuff) 
> 
> I am all for a merge.. who wants to help ?

I'm working on it right now. I don't know how and where to put the
"AUDIO DRIVERS" section. Should it be a new wiki page included in
another page?

> When I created the original wiki, I asked Heroines for permition to do
> so, and he gave it. (Plus I put attributions on each page) so I think
> that merging the text (and adding some nice images to illustrate) would
> be a great idea. 
> 
> alx.

Nicolas.

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Aaron Newcomb]

Since Alex mentioned video tutorials I thought I would chime in and
mention again that I am working on a set of tutorials as well as part
of my video podcast called "the_source". I am planning on donating
them to the project. The first one is already done and is part of
Episode 6. We are planning 3 or 4 more. Just let me know who to send
them to.
--
Thanks,
Aaron Newcomb
http://www.thesourceshow.org


On 10/19/06, Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Merge with ?

By default I am open to any other format or anything that helps...  so
whatever it is I am for it.

On a side note, what I am taking from this thread is:

A) The wiki is slow -
Agree.. I will try to cajole the guys at taxnetusa.com to see if they
can move us to a faster server .. (I am getting the bandwith for free..
so I will see what some begging can do )

2) Having to be online to browse the wiki is a problematic.
Again agree..  I will see if the export to HTML plugin can solve that
one.. It would be great to ship the documentation with the source.

3) The wiki is broken into too many pages and is hard to navigate.
Am I reading this right ? if so, anyone can create a single wiki page
that refers to as many pages as you wish in a single page. basically it
would be a gigenormous page that should look a lot like Secrets of
Cinelerra, + pictures

I think that if I get the server to be faster, it will solve a lot of
issues. the main one being to attract more people to contribute material
to the wiki.


The above said.. my current project is to create Cinelerra Video
tutorials using screen capture (Istanbul) mixed with other audio & video
materials.

Baically I thought that Cinelerra being a Video editor and all .. it
would be appropiate to showcase what it can do while introducing the
basics.  This way, a prospective user, can preview what Cinelerra can do
with out having to deal with installation or hardware limitations
issues.


Alx.


> Author: Nicolas
> Date: 2006-10-19 12:522006-10-19 17:52 -500UTC
> To: cinelerra
> Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation
>
> Alex, what's your opinion about the (possible) merge? Your opinion is
> indeed very important...
>
> Nicolas.
>

--
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra



___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Christian Thaeter]

Alex Ferrer wrote:
> Merge with ? 
> 
> By default I am open to any other format or anything that helps...  so
> whatever it is I am for it. 
> 
> On a side note, what I am taking from this thread is:
> 
> A) The wiki is slow - 
> Agree.. I will try to cajole the guys at taxnetusa.com to see if they
> can move us to a faster server .. (I am getting the bandwith for free..
> so I will see what some begging can do ) 
> 
> 2) Having to be online to browse the wiki is a problematic. 
> Again agree..  I will see if the export to HTML plugin can solve that
> one.. It would be great to ship the documentation with the source.
>
> 3) The wiki is broken into too many pages and is hard to navigate.
> Am I reading this right ? if so, anyone can create a single wiki page
> that refers to as many pages as you wish in a single page. basically
> it would be a gigenormous page that should look a lot like Secrets of
> Cinelerra, + pictures
>

Just generating a static version from the wiki often doesnt suffice, a
wiki is at best structured for browsing, often rather unstructured (ok
the cinelerra wiki get this right)

I showed how to solve this on my wiki with a few simple steps:
 - Create a 'hardcopy' page which includes other (less structured) wiki
   pages in a well intended manner.
 - use the wiki's print-view and htmltops (or some similar tool) to
   generate a static version which is useable for printing.

so how does that look like in real (just a example, not complecte content):

The 'hardcopy' page in raw syntax:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra/Print?action=raw

Print-View:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra/Print?action=print

and a example PDF generated from that could look like:
http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/Cinelerra/Developers?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=text.pdf

there are still some problems, and I use a moin-wiki not a twiki, but
twiki has similar features and the bugs left, formatting glitches can
easily be fixed by some sed-script hooked into the process.

Idea behind would be to generate the static version occationally and
check that into the source tree. The scripts doing this should be part
of the distribution too.

(a static html version with wget or a mirror tool is also easy)


> I think that if I get the server to be faster, it will solve a lot of
> issues. the main one being to attract more people to contribute material
> to the wiki. 

I agree and using a wiki is the simpliest way to attract people.
If we agree on a workflow like I sketched above, it would be nice to
feed 'Secrets of Cinelerra' into the wiki.

Christian

(2nd try, first post stuck in a moderator approval)


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Alex Ferrer]

Answering my own question ... 

I just looked at the Secrets of Cinelerra page, and I can see that a lot
of material has been added. (Specially the HD stuff) 

I am all for a merge.. who wants to help ?

When I created the original wiki, I asked Heroines for permition to do
so, and he gave it. (Plus I put attributions on each page) so I think
that merging the text (and adding some nice images to illustrate) would
be a great idea. 

alx.





> Alex wrote:
> Merge with ? 
-- 
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Alex Ferrer]

Merge with ? 

By default I am open to any other format or anything that helps...  so
whatever it is I am for it. 

On a side note, what I am taking from this thread is:

A) The wiki is slow - 
Agree.. I will try to cajole the guys at taxnetusa.com to see if they
can move us to a faster server .. (I am getting the bandwith for free..
so I will see what some begging can do ) 

2) Having to be online to browse the wiki is a problematic. 
Again agree..  I will see if the export to HTML plugin can solve that
one.. It would be great to ship the documentation with the source.

3) The wiki is broken into too many pages and is hard to navigate.
Am I reading this right ? if so, anyone can create a single wiki page
that refers to as many pages as you wish in a single page. basically it
would be a gigenormous page that should look a lot like Secrets of
Cinelerra, + pictures

I think that if I get the server to be faster, it will solve a lot of
issues. the main one being to attract more people to contribute material
to the wiki. 


The above said.. my current project is to create Cinelerra Video
tutorials using screen capture (Istanbul) mixed with other audio & video
materials.

Baically I thought that Cinelerra being a Video editor and all .. it
would be appropiate to showcase what it can do while introducing the
basics.  This way, a prospective user, can preview what Cinelerra can do
with out having to deal with installation or hardware limitations
issues.


Alx. 


> Author: Nicolas
> Date: 2006-10-19 12:522006-10-19 17:52 -500UTC
> To: cinelerra
> Subject: Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation
> 
> Alex, what's your opinion about the (possible) merge? Your opinion is 
> indeed very important... 
> 
> Nicolas. 
> 

-- 
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 10:45:51PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> Would installing this plugin help ?
> 
> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/PublishContrib
> 
> it is supposed to generate static HTML pages that you can download as a
> package. 
> 
> If there is enough demand, I will install it this weekend .. 

That would be great! Even if there's no documentation merge (which I
hope won't be the case), that would be a great improvement for the
wiki!!!

Nicolas.

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas]

Alex, what's your opinion about the (possible) merge? Your opinion is
indeed very important...

Nicolas.

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Gour]

On Thu, 2006-10-19 at 18:41 +0200, Nicolas Maufrais wrote:

> There are no screenshots in this manual. Screenshots become obsolete
> quickly and as a result confuse the users. What looks one way in a
> screenshot will always look different in the real program because the
> real program and the manual are always evolving, never perfectly
> synchronized. It is true that manuals should have screenshots, but our
> objective in omitting screenshots is to keep the software costs minimal
> so you don't have to pay for it. That includes additional labor to
> synchronize the manual with the software.

I consider above very important in the sense that I have opinion that
user-manual should include screenshots and images.

> I prefer to use good tools which already proved their quality than
> something else which isn't widely used, and probably not as good.

Me too.


> I'm not quite sure the "markup-training" is that hard for texinfo. Look
> at the cinelerra.texi file, and look at the tags. Here they are

[snip]

> There are only 25 tags, some of them being used just 1 time. Moreover, I
> think they're quite easy to dig...

Then we can use LaTeX or even LyX as well.


> IMO, there's nothing more "classy" than a documentation made from
> texinfo. It's simple, well arranged, and easy to read.

Well, we can the use also groff, but nothing comes close to tex-engine
when typesetting is concerned.

My point of using txt2tags is to have easy entry-level document which
can be easily (automatically) converted to both XHTML - to be used via
Help button - and PDF - via LaTeX.


> Using the wiki as it is for the moment is a real pain. I mean, the work
> that Alex did is very nice indeed. But the server is sooo slow! It's
> a real pain to edit anything!

I agree.



> The next step IMO should be to merge the Wiki and Secrets into 1 large
> document. That would be the definite reference to look at when looking
> for information. The wiki will continue, for sure, but its contents
> would be integrated into that large manual.

We have to agree on the format first.


> Cinelerra documentation really need to be improved, and having all the
> information splitted over several places brings confusion.

Here we (all ?) agree.

Sincerely,
Gour



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas Maufrais]

On Thu, Oct 19, 2006 at 12:49:58PM +0200, Gour wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-10-18 at 22:48 +0200, Nicolas Maufrais wrote:
> 
> 
> > I think we should focus on cinelerra documentation. We should find a way
> > to improve the documentation. There are some possibilities. One of them
> > being to copy/paste some part of the wiki into the cinelerra.texi file.
> 
> [...]
> > Any comments are welcome. Let's talk about it and try to find some
> > solutions. ;-)
> 
> Today I heard that HV manual ("Secrets") is not updated so often, or
> much less than wiki.
> 
> So, my point is that it could be easier to start from wiki and merge
> cinelerra.texi with it.
> 
> My irc suggestion was to use something like txt2tags (see
> http://txt2tags.sourceforge.net/features.html)
> 
> which has simple markup and produces many output formats (XHTML, LaTeX
> etc.), and can be automatized (command tool is available) and it is
> multi-platform written in Python.

What about using the standard GNU tools? Their quality is very good. Did
you have a look at what's written in "Secrets of Cinelerra"? I quote:

"ABOUT THIS MANUAL
This manual is relevant only for the heroinewarrior.com version of
Cinelerra. If you are using the cinelerra.org fork, you should use the
manual for that version. The behavior of different forks is highly
variable.
Organizing information in the easiest manner for users to find out what
they need to know is sort of like cataloging the internet. They've been
trying to get it right for 30 years and will probably keep trying until
the end of time.
There a lot of fragments of documentation scattered throughout the
internet about Cinelerra. This document attempts to combine all the
pieces of information in one piece.
Like the operating system and compiler for a piece of software, the
document writing format is the most important thing in choosing our
document format. We wanted a format which would be readable regardless
of corporate whims and fads. A piece of software which compiles on GCC
and Linux will be usable as long as there are C compilers. Documents
written in Texinfo will be readable as long as there's a C compiler.
After many years of searching for the perfect documentation format we've
arrived at TexInfo. This format can be converted to HTML, printed,
automatically indexed, but most importantly is not bound to any
commercial word processor.
There are no screenshots in this manual. Screenshots become obsolete
quickly and as a result confuse the users. What looks one way in a
screenshot will always look different in the real program because the
real program and the manual are always evolving, never perfectly
synchronized. It is true that manuals should have screenshots, but our
objective in omitting screenshots is to keep the software costs minimal
so you don't have to pay for it. That includes additional labor to
synchronize the manual with the software.
In addition to telling you the basic editing features of Cinelerra this
manual covers tricks that won't be described anywhere else. We're going
to try to come up with certain things you can do with Cinelerra that you
wouldn't think of on your own."

I prefer to use good tools which already proved their quality than
something else which isn't widely used, and probably not as good.

> It is simple enough that no special markup-training is required for new
> doc-contributors, and, at the same time, allowing us to produce offline
> manual (eg. HV doc is often very slow) to be used with (idea from
> another post) Cinelerra's Help button.

I'm not quite sure the "markup-training" is that hard for texinfo. Look
at the cinelerra.texi file, and look at the tags. Here they are:

$ cat cinelerra.texi | grep @ | sed "[EMAIL PROTECTED]@+g" | sed "[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]([^
{]*\)[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | grep -v "[)}]" | grep -v "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" | sort -u

@author
@b
@bye
@c
@chapter
@contents
@copyright
@end
@example
@image
@item
@itemize
@menu
@node
@page
@section
@setfilename
@settitle
@sp
@subsection
@subsubsection
@subtitle
@title
@titlepage
@top
@xref

There are only 25 tags, some of them being used just 1 time. Moreover, I
think they're quite easy to dig...

> Finally, having LaTeX means getting 1st class PDF output for offline
> use.

IMO, there's nothing more "classy" than a documentation made from
texinfo. It's simple, well arranged, and easy to read.

> I am not attached for specific tool, but I vote for offline HTML editor
> launchable via Help button and 1st quality PDF.
> 
> Let's discuss how to achieve it!

Using the wiki as it is for the moment is a real pain. I mean, the work
that Alex did is very nice indeed. But the server is sooo slow! It's
a real pain to edit anything!

Putting everything one 1 page could be nice, not because it'll speed up
the reading on the internet, of course. But because if it's on 1 page
only, we'll be able to easily save it on our hard-drives.

The next step IMO should be to merge the Wiki and Secrets into 1 large
document. That would be the

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[muzzol]

2006/10/19, Gour <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

So, my point is that it could be easier to start from wiki and merge
cinelerra.texi with it.



agree. a wiki system is always faster, in fact is its main goal. if
the only problem is a big-one-page-manual feature i think we must
search for a wiki -> pdf/tex/html exportation or something like that,
but mantain wiki as main doc place.


--

^ ^
O O
   (_ _)
muzzol(a)gmail.com

jabber id: muzzol(a)jabber.dk

No atribueixis qualitats humanes als ordinadors.
No els hi agrada.

"El gobierno español sólo habla con terroristas, homosexuales y
catalanes, a ver cuando se decide a hablar con gente normal"
Jiménez Losantos


bomb terrorism bush aznar teletubbies

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Gour]

On Wed, 2006-10-18 at 22:48 +0200, Nicolas Maufrais wrote:


> I think we should focus on cinelerra documentation. We should find a way
> to improve the documentation. There are some possibilities. One of them
> being to copy/paste some part of the wiki into the cinelerra.texi file.

[...]
> Any comments are welcome. Let's talk about it and try to find some
> solutions. ;-)

Today I heard that HV manual ("Secrets") is not updated so often, or
much less than wiki.

So, my point is that it could be easier to start from wiki and merge
cinelerra.texi with it.

My irc suggestion was to use something like txt2tags (see
http://txt2tags.sourceforge.net/features.html)

which has simple markup and produces many output formats (XHTML, LaTeX
etc.), and can be automatized (command tool is available) and it is
multi-platform written in Python.

It is simple enough that no special markup-training is required for new
doc-contributors, and, at the same time, allowing us to produce offline
manual (eg. HV doc is often very slow) to be used with (idea from
another post) Cinelerra's Help button.

Finally, having LaTeX means getting 1st class PDF output for offline
use.

I am not attached for specific tool, but I vote for offline HTML editor
launchable via Help button and 1st quality PDF.

Let's discuss how to achieve it!

Sincerely,
Gour





signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Gour]

On Thu, 2006-10-19 at 13:27 +0930, Pierre Dumuid wrote:

> demand++ from me..


> I've also thought about help buttons within cinelerra.   The idea being 
> that if you click a help button it would tall a web-browser to go to a 
> specific page (i.e. /usr/share/doc/cinelerra/bigfile.html#settingformat )
> 

Very nice.

> You have built cinelerra with inbuilt documentation system. You are 
> still required to download the wiki documentation that compliments this.

I'd like that manual is regularly updated and it covers majority of
documentation.

> > it is supposed to generate static HTML pages that you can download as a
> > package. 
> >
> > If there is enough demand, I will install it this weekend .. 

What about pdf manual?

Sincerely,
Gour



signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Pierre Dumuid]

demand++ from me..

I've also thought about help buttons within cinelerra.   The idea being 
that if you click a help button it would tall a web-browser to go to a 
specific page (i.e. /usr/share/doc/cinelerra/bigfile.html#settingformat )


Is this possible to maintain these anchor's in the generated html file?  
If so, then I think we could start adding the ability to do:


$ ./configure --with-wikihelp --wikisinglehtmlfile=http://ferris/.../
$ make
Making all in 

You have built cinelerra with inbuilt documentation system. You are 
still required to download the wiki documentation that compliments this.
To do so, run "make getwikidoc" now. (or alternatively, place the 
contents in the doc/wikidoc/ directory)


Also, an autogenerated directory containing the generated wiki might be 
nice, and allow people to use smart downloaders (such as rsync) to get 
only the files that have changed. (i.e. some pictures may stay the same)


Pierre

Alex Ferrer wrote:

Would installing this plugin help ?

http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/PublishContrib

it is supposed to generate static HTML pages that you can download as a
package. 

If there is enough demand, I will install it this weekend .. 



  



--
__

Get Firefox! http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Mr Pierre Dumuid
Phd Student

Active Noise and Vibration Control Group
School of Mechanical Engineering
The University of Adelaide 
SA 5005

AUSTRALIA

Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Work:   +61 (0)8 8303 3847

Mobile: 0407 570 263

Web Page : http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/
__

CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
--- 


This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains
information that may be confidential and/or copyright.  If you are not
the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and
immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this
email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly
prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments
are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the
responsibility of the recipient.

begin:vcard
fn:Pierre Dumuid
n:Dumuid;Pierre
org:The University of Adelaide;Mechanical Engineering
adr:;;;Adelaide;South Australia;5005;Australia
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
title:Postgraduate Student
tel;work:8303 3847
tel;home:8388 5727
tel;cell:0407570263
note:CRICOS Provider Number 00123M
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://www.adelaide.edu.au
version:2.1
end:vcard

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Alex Ferrer]

Would installing this plugin help ?

http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/PublishContrib

it is supposed to generate static HTML pages that you can download as a
package. 

If there is enough demand, I will install it this weekend .. 


-- 
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 06:36:40PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> > Yes, the wiki is a direct transfer of Secrets of Cinelerra to a
> wiki 
> > format. (plus a few illustrations) 
> > 
> > The idea is that hyperlinks of wiki words make it easier for someone
> to 
> > digest/find so much information in a structured way. 
> > 
> > The beauty of the wiki is that the information can be re-arranged in
> any 
> > way desired.. 
> > 
> > What I mean is that it is trivial to create a wiki page with all
> topics 
> > one after the other in any order you wish, and that would appear as
> one 
> > gigantic document (like secrets of cinelerra) that you could send
> to 
> > your printer.  
> 
> I really would like such a page to exist. That way, I would be able
> to 
> print it, save it, and convert it to pdf for example. 
> 
> > Any ideas on how to make it a better document are encouraged and 
> > welcomed. 
> 
> The wiki is quite interesting indeed. Unfortunately, as I said, the
> fact 
> that there are so much pages makes it not so easy to read. 
> Since the page could be very large, it could be long to display. 
> However, it just need to be downloaded 1 time, and saved on the 
> hard-drive. That's what I did for the Secrets of Cinelerra. 
> 
> Nicolas. 


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 06:36:40PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> Yes, the wiki is a direct transfer of Secrets of Cinelerra to a wiki
> format. (plus a few illustrations) 
> 
> The idea is that hyperlinks of wiki words make it easier for someone to
> digest/find so much information in a structured way. 
> 
> The beauty of the wiki is that the information can be re-arranged in any
> way desired.. 
> 
> What I mean is that it is trivial to create a wiki page with all topics
> one after the other in any order you wish, and that would appear as one
> gigantic document (like secrets of cinelerra) that you could send to
> your printer. 

I really would like such a page to exist. That way, I would be able to
print it, save it, and convert it to pdf for example.

> Any ideas on how to make it a better document are encouraged and
> welcomed.

The wiki is quite interesting indeed. Unfortunately, as I said, the fact
that there are so much pages makes it not so easy to read.
Since the page could be very large, it could be long to display.
However, it just need to be downloaded 1 time, and saved on the
hard-drive. That's what I did for the Secrets of Cinelerra.

Nicolas.

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Alex Ferrer]

Yes, the wiki is a direct transfer of Secrets of Cinelerra to a wiki
format. (plus a few illustrations) 

The idea is that hyperlinks of wiki words make it easier for someone to
digest/find so much information in a structured way. 

The beauty of the wiki is that the information can be re-arranged in any
way desired.. 

What I mean is that it is trivial to create a wiki page with all topics
one after the other in any order you wish, and that would appear as one
gigantic document (like secrets of cinelerra) that you could send to
your printer. 

Any ideas on how to make it a better document are encouraged and
welcomed. 

alx. 


-- 
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:43:47PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> 
> What makes the wiki not easy to read? 
> 
> Is there anything I can do to make it easier ? 
> 
> alx. 

>Alex, .

>The problem is that the information is split over a lot of pages. That 
>makes it less convenient to read than say the Secrets of Cinelerra, 
>which is a 1 page document (with links). 

>There's also the fact that it's a bit "redundant" with the offical 
>documentation. 

>I think merging all the information into 1 document would be 
>interesting. That doesn't mean the wiki should be closed at all. But 
>regular merges of the Secrets and the wiki would allow the users to
>find 
>all the information they need in 1 document. 

>Nicolas.


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Andraž Tori]

On Thu, 2006-10-19 at 01:05 +0200, Nicolas wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:43:47PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> > 
> > What makes the wiki not easy to read? 
> > 
> > Is there anything I can do to make it easier ? 
> > 
> > alx.
> 
> Alex,
> 
> The problem is that the information is split over a lot of pages. That
> makes it less convenient to read than say the Secrets of Cinelerra,
> which is a 1 page document (with links).
> 
> There's also the fact that it's a bit "redundant" with the offical
> documentation.
> 
> I think merging all the information into 1 document would be
> interesting. That doesn't mean the wiki should be closed at all. But
> regular merges of the Secrets and the wiki would allow the users to find
> all the information they need in 1 document.

maybe wiki can be convinced to display the list of pages as one
document... - one after another inside the same page

bye
andraz


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 05:43:47PM -0500, Alex Ferrer wrote:
> 
> What makes the wiki not easy to read? 
> 
> Is there anything I can do to make it easier ? 
> 
> alx.

Alex,

The problem is that the information is split over a lot of pages. That
makes it less convenient to read than say the Secrets of Cinelerra,
which is a 1 page document (with links).

There's also the fact that it's a bit "redundant" with the offical
documentation.

I think merging all the information into 1 document would be
interesting. That doesn't mean the wiki should be closed at all. But
regular merges of the Secrets and the wiki would allow the users to find
all the information they need in 1 document.

Nicolas.

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Alex Ferrer]

What makes the wiki not easy to read? 

Is there anything I can do to make it easier ? 

alx.



>Nicolas, 
>Good idea. I want to add that the IRC channel logs are interesting
>reading for any level and are available here: 
>http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/ 

>scott 
-- Original message -- 
From: Nicolas Maufrais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hello, 
> 
> As you probably know, there're several places where you can find 
> information about cinelerra: 
> - The secrets of cinelerra: 
> http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra/cinelerra.html 
> - The wiki: 
>
http://ftconsult.taxnetusa.com/twiki/bin/view/Cinelerra/CinelerraManualTOC 
> - This mailing list: 
> https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/cinelerra 
> - The IRC channel 
> 
> The IRC channel and this ML are a nice place to find help. Some
advices 
> are indeed interesting, and that's why putting them on the wiki is a 
> nice thing. 
> 
> The "official manual" (aka. "Secrets of Cinelerra") is very well
made, 
> and easy to read. It's available in texinfo format in the 
> hvirtual/doc/cinelerra.texi file. The wiki also contains very
intersting 
> information, but the problem is that it's not as easy to read than
the 
> manual. Secrets of Cinelerra consists of one large file, which can be 
> printed, converted to html or pdf, etc... 
> 
> I think we should focus on cinelerra documentation. We should find a
way 
> to improve the documentation. There are some possibilities. One of
them 
> being to copy/paste some part of the wiki into the cinelerra.texi
file. 
> 
> Some of us had a discussion about that subject on the IRC: 
> http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/index.php?file=2006-10-18.html 
> 
> Any comments are welcome. Let's talk about it and try to find some 
> solutions. ;-) 
> 
> Nicolas. 
> 
> ___ 
> Cinelerra mailing list 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra 
-- 
Alex Ferrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

Re: [CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Nicolas,
Good idea.  I want to add that the IRC channel logs are interesting reading for 
any level and are available here:
http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/

scott
 -- Original message --
From: Nicolas Maufrais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hello,
> 
> As you probably know, there're several places where you can find
> information about cinelerra:
> - The secrets of cinelerra:
> http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra/cinelerra.html
> - The wiki:
> http://ftconsult.taxnetusa.com/twiki/bin/view/Cinelerra/CinelerraManualTOC
> - This mailing list:
> https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/cinelerra
> - The IRC channel
> 
> The IRC channel and this ML are a nice place to find help. Some advices
> are indeed interesting, and that's why putting them on the wiki is a
> nice thing.
> 
> The "official manual" (aka. "Secrets of Cinelerra") is very well made,
> and easy to read. It's available in texinfo format in the
> hvirtual/doc/cinelerra.texi file. The wiki also contains very intersting
> information, but the problem is that it's not as easy to read than the
> manual. Secrets of Cinelerra consists of one large file, which can be
> printed, converted to html or pdf, etc...
> 
> I think we should focus on cinelerra documentation. We should find a way
> to improve the documentation. There are some possibilities. One of them
> being to copy/paste some part of the wiki into the cinelerra.texi file.
> 
> Some of us had a discussion about that subject on the IRC:
> http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/index.php?file=2006-10-18.html
> 
> Any comments are welcome. Let's talk about it and try to find some
> solutions. ;-)
> 
> Nicolas.
> 
> ___
> Cinelerra mailing list
> Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
> https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra



___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra

[CinCVS] Cinelerra documentation

[Nicolas Maufrais]

Hello,

As you probably know, there're several places where you can find
information about cinelerra:
- The secrets of cinelerra:
http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra/cinelerra.html
- The wiki:
http://ftconsult.taxnetusa.com/twiki/bin/view/Cinelerra/CinelerraManualTOC
- This mailing list:
https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/cinelerra
- The IRC channel

The IRC channel and this ML are a nice place to find help. Some advices
are indeed interesting, and that's why putting them on the wiki is a
nice thing.

The "official manual" (aka. "Secrets of Cinelerra") is very well made,
and easy to read. It's available in texinfo format in the
hvirtual/doc/cinelerra.texi file. The wiki also contains very intersting
information, but the problem is that it's not as easy to read than the
manual. Secrets of Cinelerra consists of one large file, which can be
printed, converted to html or pdf, etc...

I think we should focus on cinelerra documentation. We should find a way
to improve the documentation. There are some possibilities. One of them
being to copy/paste some part of the wiki into the cinelerra.texi file.

Some of us had a discussion about that subject on the IRC:
http://cvs.cinelerra.org/irclog/index.php?file=2006-10-18.html

Any comments are welcome. Let's talk about it and try to find some
solutions. ;-)

Nicolas.

___
Cinelerra mailing list
Cinelerra@skolelinux.no
https://init.linpro.no/mailman/skolelinux.no/listinfo/cinelerra